Thinking About Death for a Better Life With Jodi Wellman

0:02Thank you for joining us for episode 574 of Live Happy Now. Summer is unofficially underway, which means it's time for sunshine, slowing down, and of course, our Live Happy Summer Reading Program. I'm your host, Paula Felps, and today we're launching this six-week series with author Jodi Wellman, whose book, You Only Die Once, How to Make it to the End with no regrets, invites us to wake up to our lives in the most energizing way. Jodi's here to help us rethink how we spend our days and find meaning and how we can start living a little more boldly right now. Let's go. Jodi, thank you so much for coming back to Live Happy Now to kick off our summer reading program.

0:43I am super excited to have you back on the show. Oh, I'm so excited too, Paula. It's going to be a great summer. It is. It is. And we're super excited to kick off this reading program. And your book is one that I really, really want to showcase. I know it came out in 2024, but it's been a go-to for me and I want everybody to discover it. And so that's why you're here. And of course that book is You Only Die Once, How to Make It to the End with No Regrets. And that looks at how thinking about death can actually make you feel more alive. So I wanted to start by having you explain the phrase that you love so much.

1:18Tell us what it means and why you love it. This phrase, are you thinking of memento mori? It's like you read my mind. It's almost like I knew. Yes. Because I got a lot of phrases. Yeah. The old Latin phrase of memento mori translates to remember we must die. And does it sound morbid? Absolutely. But can it actually be really alivenating? Well, yes, of course. And that's the whole point here is that that's the contemplation that in the right dose and the right tone, that can actually wake us up to life. And so counterintuitively, that's the spirit. And how did you discover the power of feeling more alive by focusing on death?

2:01Yeah. Well, it was a kind of a long time coming in the interest of living a best life. So like my backgrounds, I've always been in self-improvement back in the health club world, and then in positive psychology and coaching. That's all about live your best life. Yay. And I don't know why you have to say it like a cheerleader. Yay. But you do. Pom poms. I don't even have pom poms, I swear. But then that combined with the absurdity of our finite nature, right? We're working so hard to live these lives we love, and then all of a sudden we're gone. It always struck me as a unique situation for us humans to be in.

2:35And then my mom, when she was in her late fifties, she died unexpectedly of a heart attack. And my wake up call was the very specific moment that I was cleaning out her apartment after she died. And I saw the vestiges of all of her dreams and goals and plans and desires that she didn't execute. And so I was throwing them out. So here I was, I was, she had this big roll top desk and I was throwing out her business cards and plans and even some stories. Like I kept copies of her manuscripts and stuff, but illustrations. And because she had this idea that she would do it later. And that was a really gripping moment of, well, wait a minute, we may not get later.

3:19Or at the very least, like who's taking a stand for now? Like, why aren't we living now? And so that was a real wake up also just because I recognized I was of the same ilk, like my tendency would also be to dream and then maybe not do. So that was a real splash of cold water of, wait a minute, we cannot get to the end and have a bunch of coulda, shoulda, wouldas. Let's take action on it now. And so that combined with researching this topic has really been a validating process of let's use death to our advantage or the idea of death, as you clarified. Well, how did you go from having this aha moment to teasing it into a message and a movement?

3:57It's so much more than just this realization now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't feel confident talking about it until I studied it. And so otherwise, I know some people are into stoicism, or carpe diem is a safe phrase we can use, seize the day, you know, before you go. But I was always, I thought like, I was working in corporate environments. I'm like, well, how am I going to talk about this without being the total weirdo? Like, I'm okay with being the general weirdo, but not the total weirdo. I didn't know how to do it. So I didn't do it, which actually is really crappy, right? To have this really passionate thing inside you that you feel like somehow you can't bring out.

4:35But the opening doors for me was studying it. So I did the MAP program, Masters of Applied Positive Psychology at University of Pennsylvania. And I made this my topic of study for my thesis there. And that's the thing that gave me the confidence. How nerdy is that, right? I just needed it to be empirically based. And then I was allowed to talk about it. Whatever. Whatever it takes. Yeah, we want that. We want that. We like some good science. But as long as we make it a little fun. So I was blown away to realize the research that this concept of temporal scarcity, that when we do see an asset, an item, oh, you know, a life as limited time only, our perception of its value soars.

5:17And so like that's precisely what we want to do with our lives. So by researching it and seeing all this evidence and then researching people who have had near-death experiences and researching what we know to be true about thinking about contemplating death, how it can activate us, it all just became so clear. Like, now I have the confidence I need to talk about this. And so that's where all this kind of moves forward is like, well, also, to be honest, Paula, it would be horribly ironic if I'm the one excited about this and researching not getting to the end with regrets. And was I going to be the one on my deathbed dying thinking like, I just want to talk about seizing the day and living before we die, and then I didn't do it?

5:54Like, that would be really. Yeah. Yeah, that does kind of give you that impetus to show up or shut up.

6:02It's the classy part of me that said that. So at what point did you know this would be a book? When did it go from this area of research and something you could talk about to now it's like, I have a book in me that needs to come out? Oh, good question. Well, I think it was when I was writing my thesis and it was just like knee deep in all this research and it was great and fun. And it was also like, can I just be snarky now? I just wanted to bring it to the masses, not just the academic paper world, which four people read and three of them are paid to do so. So I was like, there's good stuff in here.

6:37Can I bring it to life? Ha ha ha, pun intended. How do I do this and make it so it's conversational and hopefully inspiring? Hopefully there are some giggles, lots of doodles, because as I have learned, you really can't talk about our total and utter demise without doodling the Grim Reaper. Like I feel like there's an absolute must to make the sugar go down. You know what I'm saying? The medicine go down, I should say. I realized like this message is so, I believe, the most important message we can deal with in that we're wired to take our lives for granted. And for years I worked with individuals and teams in the coaching and consulting capacity.

7:17And so it was, I had like super experience. Oh, and also with myself about delaying my own life, putting it off, postponement, right? I'll do it later or I'll do it when I have enough money or I'll do it when I retire. Well, that's a bunch of baloney. And so I think it was like the culmination of working with enough people and knowing our tendencies to postpone our existence, having this thesis, which is like dripping with good content. And I was like, oh, but if I could just package it in a way that is hopefully inspiring enough and fun enough and cool enough to read and not full of APA references, then maybe we can make something of this.

7:53Yeah, I think it cannot be overstated enough how fun this is. We don't expect a book that is about dying to be fun, and it is. I feel like you had a blast writing this. I almost can see you at your computer just smiling, going, this is a good one. And then the illustrations, like you mentioned, they are fabulous, and you did those yourself. So this just, I want to hear how that came about too. Was it just, I'm writing this and this came to mind? Or how did you come up with the illustrations on that? Yeah. Well, when I started 4 ,000 Mondays, it was right after grad school about now researching this idea of let's live before we die.

8:32So I started 4 ,000 Mondays, which, spoiler alert, that's like roughly how much time we got. And I count my Mondays as, should you? I know I have 1 ,709 left, hopefully more. But I knew when I was starting just 4 ,000 Mondays in general, for some reason I had this desire to make it, like the brand of it seem, again, accessible and fun. Because it is a tough topic. And so let's just link arms together and be a little bit irreverent about this inevitable situation we have together. So by, like I call it defanging death. If we can just make it a little less scary, because we're prone to deny talking about it.

9:09We don't want to talk about it. Let's just move on. But it was like, wait one sec, wait one sec. If I can maybe make you giggle and maybe make you see yourself in this little doodle or this cartoon or whatever, that might just make it that much more accessible to read. And I'll just say, I use this as a testimonial for trying out new activities, especially as we get older, because I didn't even know that I liked to draw until I was in my mid-40s. Really? So it wasn't like I've always been drawing and now I just put it to use. I just started doing it. And now I'm average. I was super terrible when I started.

9:45Like, I'm not pretending. I'm like, great. I don't know why I have to say that. But they're fun. No, it's your drawings are very, very fun. Okay. Okay. Well, thank you for saying that. And I wasn't fishing. It sounds like I was totally fishing. But my point though, is that you may have like an inner glass blowing machine in you, or you may be a poet and it's just like, give it a go. This is part of the spirit, right? Of the book is like embracing life, whatever that's going to look like for you. If you've been curious about going and getting up and doing standup or going and creating an itinerary and traveling, it's just like, go give it a try.

10:16Like it's this life is this grand experiment anyways. So part of it may include, you may also get a real kick out of doodling The Grim Reaper too. And that is such an important message right now that get out there and just do it. Just go try the things that you want to do. What is it that you most hope, how do you hope that inspires people? Like what do you see coming out of this book because people are picking it up and getting that message? Oh, I always say that my overall goal and mission is to wake the F up to life before you die. And I think it's very relative. So I tend to feel a little bit, whoa, whoa, whoa, defensive about this idea about getting out there and living.

11:00Because I think immediately what we do is we stop and think, well, I don't have time yet. Because one day I will. Well, yeah, one day you're going to have a lot of time. You're not going to like it, though. So it might be very warm or not, depending what you're saying. Maybe it's money. Like a lot of reasons why we think, well, I can't go and live this big life. And it doesn't need to be big. I use the word astonishingly alive. And it's meant to imply more of the spirit of vitality and aliveness and meaning. It's not about how it has to be full of these fancy trips or things. And so my hope is that each person walks away.

11:39In the end of the book, it's very clear. It's like, what's your one thing that you want to do at a time? Because you can only do one at a time. And you don't want to overwhelm yourself with trying to stuff life into your life and then burn out, ironically, on trying to live like you mean it, right? So I think it's acknowledging that sometimes it's even the sweet and simple stuff that can bring that feeling of pleasure and aliveness. So maybe it is just a commitment to having your morning coffee outside and just looking at the birds. And maybe that's a way to kick off part of your morning that just makes you feel somehow connected to nature or to a moment to just take a beat.

12:18And that does not sound like, whoa, YOLO, you only live once, right? That's more like getting in touch with what might make you feel like you're not squandering your time. I feel very clear about let's live a squander-free life. And so it might mean big activities and it might also mean those simple things. We'll be right back with more of Live Happy Now.

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13:44And now let's hear more from Jody Wellman. Since it's been out for a little bit, you've had a chance to get feedback from readers from other individuals. What is it that you found most has resonated with people? Is there a certain chapter or a certain theme that has been most meaningful to people? I've heard some feedback about the idea of around people who've had brushes with death that, wow, like they've now woken up to life in a way that the rest of us suckers who haven't come close to death, we'll never know. I should be careful what I wish for because I always wanted to come close and then come back and be like, ah, now I really see how precious this life is.

14:25Yeah, but if that goes badly, ooh. Exactly. It's a fine line, isn't it? So for the record, whoever's listening, I don't want a near-death experience, please. But I think the lessons learned there are pretty riveting for people. And then the thing that touches me the most is that the way people choose to apply this, it comes back to that idea about it maybe being more accessible than we think. And that delights me to no end. So living an astonishingly alive life, whether you've identified it's living wider with vitality or deeper with meaning, those are the two kind of frameworks I look at, and it all gets kind of mapped out easily in the book.

15:03It's that it is often this, again, back to the simple choice in life to feel alive that is so accessible. And so people will continue to know, of course, I will hear from people who say, we moved, we did a big family move, or I changed my job, or I went back to school. And these are pretty big life choices that are important. And for a lot of people, like that's the direction they want to take their life in. And for just as many of those people that I hear about the big things, the big goals they've gone for really playing it big, I probably hear from 10 times as many people about those cheap and cheerful choices around.

15:41Like I decided I'd come home and I'd put my phone down from 5 until bed, and I'm no longer engaged with my kid, and I'm playing with my cat. So sometimes it's even an aliveness choice like that. That's the stuff that has struck me is that it's so accessible. Did you know that it would have such an impact on people? Did you know that they would connect with that message so well? I mean, you had done some things with it. You'd done 4 ,000 Mondays. You did a TED Talk. So did you have any idea it was going to resonate the way that it has? The answer is no. I'm so grateful that it has because this just, I mean, it fills me with aliveness about, you know, that idea that, you know, this woman in Portland decided to sign up for that sketch class.

16:27And she laughs because she says she's hilariously terrible, but she loves doing it. And that's the thing of, like, this is a little tiny adjustment that actually makes a big difference. And so hearing that culmination of just choices people make in order to make a vote for being alive and deciding to participate in life and engage, what has come out of that has just really been delightful. And so, no, I didn't expect. I guess I hoped for it. I mean, you know. Sure. I was really hoping for it. You can't be like, I'm going to write this and hope nobody reads it. I hope. Just my dad reads it. which I think, thanks, Daddy did.

17:04I'm delighted that it is moving the needle of aliveness just in ways that for some people are bigot and some people it's small. But again, we never underestimate the impact that can make in your experience of being alive. And for you, was there a part of writing the book that was the most challenging? Wow. You know, just thinking back on the experience of it, I was really thoughtful about making it feel like a ritual. I felt like it was an honor to get to do. And so I was careful, like I made a playlist that I would only play when I was writing, and I could listen to nothing else other than that.

17:40And I had this like, stretch thing I did before I started. And I had like this little gratitude thing. And I sat down and I swear to goodness, I think I like broke my neck forever, because I did type on my laptop on the couch looking down. So I look at actually the experience felt like it was honestly delightful. And I think that the experience drawing the cover was probably the worst part because I was trying to get that stupid water skiing move down of the Grim Reaper. but I would say that the writing of it part, I think I was, I wrote too much. I think that that's actually, now that you have said this and you're jogging my memory, I wrote too much.

18:18I needed to submit, you know, 75 ,000 words, but I submitted 120 ,000. Oh my gosh. So is that the sequel? It's a lot of anecdotes. So the cutting was a little bit like the talk about death, like the death of that paragraph, but you know, I repurposed some of it, but I do think it was like, I have so much excitement to say and let's do this. What about this exercise? And what if we did this? I was like, calm down. You've only got enough space in the book. But that's beautiful. It is beautiful that you are so energized and enthusiastic. I know many people who are working on books who are like, oh my God, how am I going to hit that word count?

18:55So I think that's fantastic that you were able to have that kind of flow going with you. That's absolutely amazing. Yeah. I mean, a lot of it did come initially from the research. So I had a lot of help behind me already, right? Having probably too much content. And then it was again, how do you make it usable? So that part was a joy. That's awesome. So how has living with the idea of death improved your life? We know what it's done for some of your readers, but what has it done for you? You know, I need this stuff so very much. I think that that's why many people get into the topics they get into, right?

19:28Is because it's personally resonant and maybe I need to be reminded to live. my instinct is to stay curled up at home with my husband and cats and I do enjoy some going out and experiencing things but again being maybe a bit more introverted I am blown away by I get into a little bit of a rut which you know is code for a grave in the making and then I really tune back into that counting my Mondays and the awareness or all you know because I do this for a living. I have a lot of conversations with people who have woken up because maybe their partner just died. And that, whoa, like these moments of like, it needs to be a consistent reminder.

20:11And I need the consistent drip feed of, oh, right. What am I waiting for? You know, I suffer from being a chicken about things. I am often afraid of, oh, what will people think? Or I won't want to execute on something. And I need to, you know, gently slap myself in the face with the Grim Reaper and just do a little bit like, honey, we have nothing to lose. Like you're dying anyways. It's hopefully in very slow motion. But who cares if you put that thing on Instagram and someone who doesn't like, like, just do it. Like if you want to do it, do it. This is just your one small life that you're a ticking time bong, my love.

20:46Like do it. So I need those reminders. And that's, I mean, I am my number one reader. I need this myself. You are your own target. I have a cousin who died recently. She was diagnosed with cancer 10 years ago, lung cancer, and was told that she had six months to live. And she did what your book is telling people to do. She went on vacations with her husband. She had children who have now grown up, and they went on these fabulous family vacations. And for 10 years, she poured so much life into it because every year could have been her last. and her funeral was absolutely amazing because everybody was talking about how she lived like that's what they remember they don't remember that she fought lung cancer for 10 years they remember she lived so vibrantly for those 10 years and that is really what your book is all about is like taking that not everybody gets that sentence that says hey time's almost up and that pushes them to do that but your book is such a reminder that yes that's what we need to do is just live that kind of vibrant life.

21:55Wow. I'm sorry you lost, you said it was your cousin? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And yet what a powerful story, right? About like, that's like this demonstration of life that she committed and really made the most of it. What an important role model for us. Yeah. And what a way to be remembered, like she lived. That is really what you're teaching us. Yeah. That does seem like a neat summary. And again, your version of living might look different than your cousins, which might look different from your neighbors. And that's all okay. It's just knowing because I think we, a lot of us have that inner sense about whether or not we feel like we're, we're showing up enough.

22:32And then more than just the existential, like, am I doing my life right? Which like, no, none of us are like, we're all either that or we're all doing really fine. Like whatever, we'll never know. But all we do know is if you have that sense that you want to ring more out of life, this is your time. Because there is no other time than now. And that hopefully comes out page after page after page in like 9 ,008 different exercises to do that. Yeah. And so that's it too. You have the exercises. It's like this roadmap to learn how to do this and how to live more fully. We're not just telling people, hey, this is what you should be doing.

23:07We're saying this is how you do it. And by we, I mean you. You're saying. Well, you know, thank you. I felt like it was a we. I feel like we're partners in this crowd. Let me just co-opt your title here. I love it. Let's partner up. We'll write the next one together. Yeah. Thanks for noticing that because I want to be careful. Like there ain't no prescription here. Your results may vary, right? But it is just about, I think a lot of it is like rekindling that, the commitment to live. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to prod you with, you know, the threat of death and all that. But it's the kindling, like, wow.

23:39Yes. I'm lit up. I now see with some more clarity, the sense of urgency. and now I have more passion. And then it's like getting clear on, well, what would it look like then in order to feel like you did this life justice, maybe if you got to the end. And then literally just one step at a time, without, again, without overwhelm, because that doesn't help any one of us, does it? Not at all. This is so fabulous. I want you to know that it has changed me. I know it has changed many, many people. And I wanted to know what you are excited about next. Thank you for asking, because I'm a big fan of anticipation, right?

24:13positive anticipation, having something to look forward to. And I have a big fan of like, in your calendar, you want something seven days, 30 days, and one year in advance that you're really just stoked for. Yeah. I mean, it could be really easy stuff. Like I'm really looking forward to tacos on Friday. That may or may not be a true story. Are there margaritas involved? I need to know. Oh dear. I'm onto the Palomas now. Just this is my phase. Oh, okay. But a margarita will do. I'm really looking forward to starting a new creative book project that I just don't want to overthink. Back to this whole story about like, oh, am I supposed, like are there rules I'm supposed to follow?