Getting Better All the Time

20:36Shelley:Yeah. But this is a really terrific story, so thank you for sharing it. But it's so interesting because this president, love him or hate him, he is accessible. Oh, yeah. And the previous administration or the previous president, you're not going to say he was less accessible? Oh, no, I agree with you. That's the point. 100%. So what do you think? I mean, are you guys still taking your licks? And by you guys, I guess you at the Hill at the time. Yeah. For underreporting what was more obvious to the rest of the population? Well, it was interesting because back then I talked to our White House team at the Hill.

21:13And I said, how much crap do you take when you write, which we did, that Joe Biden is old and he's getting more feeble. and they said a lot of crap. I mean, they will take away access. That was a very tough group of people. Yes. And there were some, you know, there's some reporters, some at the Hill and Antwinsky at the Wall Street Journal who took a lot of heat for writing what everyone could see, that Biden is old and was old. And he really, I mean, he couldn't have really successfully run and win and then be president again. It was just not possible. Yeah. And, you know, I ran into him before he ran in 2020, about eight months beforehand on the plane.

21:52And we chatted, and he was very much with it. And then about six or eight months later, as he decided he was going to run, I noticed he just wasn't the same person. Yeah. And he was just not as quick on his feet. And then it kind of went downhill from there. And listen, you know, my dad's in his mid-80s. I mean, he needs a nap every day. It's a tough job. And I don't know if you can really do it. And obviously now, you know, Trump's about to turn 80 on June 14th. And there are questions about him as well. However, he is very accessible. And Joe Biden was not. They really kept him under wraps.

22:27Shelley:Right. So no regrets there, though. No. I mean, you always think maybe we should have done more. Right. But I also think that we did as much as we can without getting kicked out of the White House. But you always wonder, maybe we should have done more. I do think it's smart for the media, and I don't think enough of the media thinks like this. Why did we get it wrong in 2016? Why did everyone think that Hillary was going to get a win? Yeah, right. And part of the reason was I think a lot of the reporters were in the Acela corridor talking to themselves. Exactly. Between New York and Washington.

22:58You've got to get outside. Correct. And I was giving a speech in Ohio that year, and this is when Hillary Clinton's campaign was saying, yes, we can win Ohio. I went to Ohio to give a speech. I was just there for two days. I came back and said, she might win this race. I'll tell you one thing. She's not winning Ohio. You know, you have to get outside the beltway. Of course. But you have to assess both after 2016, also in 2024, I thought some of the media was cheerleading for Kamala Harris. I'm nodding. In case anybody is wondering. It's just not our role. We are the referee, and we've got to be fair.

23:30So we've got to call balls and strikes. And sometimes you think we're fair, and maybe sometimes you don't. But we're trying to be as fair as we can. And that's why when you're writing a very controversial story, whether it's a Republican or Democrat, you got to, you know, a lawmaker, aide, whatever. You got to give them a heads up. A heads up in Washington is so important. This is what we're writing. This is our angle. You're not going to put this story on your wall, but we want comment and we're going to give you a good amount of time to comment, unless it's breaking news. Then you just got to go with it.

23:57Shelley:That seems very fair. But as far as just to kill this horse, which is unexpected, but if you had gotten kicked out of the White House under the Biden administration, Wouldn't you guys have screamed bloody murder and then other people would have come to your rescue? And I say that with the juxtaposition of the Pentagon today. Yes. No, that's right. And what happened at the Pentagon wasn't right. And what happened with the Biden and the pressure of the people around him. But you're right. There are there are some. Listen. I mean, it would have been sort of great in some ways. Yeah. But I do think that overall.

24:32And again, I think the media could have done better. The Hill could have done more stories on it. But you can't say, and I never said this, but a lot of people in the media who did said Biden is sharp as a tack. Right. He was not sharp as a tack. Right. And people could see it. So you can't fool the American people. So don't try to fool them. Exactly. And when Biden said, and I wrote this in my one-year sabbatical off for just a piece on LinkedIn, is that down the stretch of the election, if you remember, Joe Biden basically did say that Trump supporters were garbage. And then people in the media said, no, no, he didn't say that.

25:07The transcription service was upset at the White House because they changed it.

25:10Shelley:Right. I remember that. That was cheerleading. You do not cheerlead. And then the best compliment I've gotten over the years of, whether at the Hill or the Examiner, is you guys are tough but fair. That's what I want. That's great. Tough but fair. And I've gotten it from both sides on that. Now, I've gotten screamed at that by both sides, too. But sometimes then you just have to, you know, just like anything in politics, which has gotten way too hot and just fervent, you've got to try to bring down the temperature and just say, let's have an adult conversation here and stop yelling at each other because that's not going to work.

25:44Shelley:Right. Well, I was going to wait because it's almost like dessert. And I say that in a rather macabre way. But we just lived through and collectively only because it's just such a sad event for the industry, for the city. But, you know, there was a shooter who was apprehended at the White House Correspondents' Dinner. and all of these reporters and other people, I mean, Trump officials and the president and vice president, were there, and it was terrifically disconcerting. But when I was saying something earlier about personal experience, I think also the journalists who were watching other things happen, who weren't at Butler or who weren't at, well, I guess Palm Beach or anywhere, or just don't cover the Middle East like some of these people do, So I think that firsthand experience will be changing to them as well.

26:45Shelley:Do you think? I do. I do. So wait, let's start from the beginning. So where were you and how nervous were you? And talk about your personal thing. Yeah, I've been to a lot of those dinners. And, you know, it's really fun at first. And then at some point, I think the dinner jumped the shark. But it's still fun to see old friends. And I was a little nervous about it. This year? I was. Wow. Because Trump, as president, was speaking for the first time. I knew the protesters would be more than normal. Right. And I was a little nervous. That said, I couldn't have predicted what happened. Of course. But it was fun being there.

27:23There was some concern in the air, but it was also festive. And I had people texting me because I was right in the shot of the dinner on C-SPAN. So people were texting me saying, I see you on TV. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was checking, and I wrote a first-person account on thewatchingnexaminer.com. I was very concerned about my Knicks beating the Hawks in a playoff series. So I checked the score. The Knicks were way up. I thought, goodness, phew, they're up. And then all hell broke loose. And it was the scariest moment of my life, without a doubt. And I do want to give a shout-out, as I did in my piece, to the war correspondents.

28:00They go through this stuff on a daily basis.

28:02Shelley:Oh, Trey Yanks, John Fox, who just came to the U.S. from me seeing him in Israel the whole time. The poor guy was, you know, at 11 o 'clock at night. Yeah. It's crazy. It was a traumatic event. And a number of our colleagues were there. I did not hear the shots. But then I saw this tsunami of Secret Service and others coming. And I thought, OK, this is it. There's a mass shooting. And the scariest thing, Shelley, is I didn't see the guy with the gun in his hand. Right. That said, they were going table to table, and I thought, the shooter's in the room, and they're trying to find that shooter. And now that was not the case.

28:38There was a lot of misinformation. Right. The shooter was shot. They were looking for a second person. Right. Didn't end up being a butt. Oh, the dinner was on. The dinner was off.

28:48Shelley:Because then they said, stick around. And, you know, my wife and friends were like, get out of there. No, she actually smartly declined to go. She's been there before. and I don't know how she would have handled it, but it was. It was something that, it was just something I've never experienced. And then you think, you know, is this it? Because I had a clear view of the door. My back was to the president and all the people and the dignitaries up there. So I could see the door and I was thinking someone's coming through that door and they're going to unleash. That said, the security, you know, I knew once all hell broke loose, where we're going to be safe.

29:30However, obviously, they're assessing a lot of the security around that event.

29:34Shelley:Yeah. Oh, for sure. They have to. Well, I don't know what the right way to say it is, but it was somewhat clever of the guy to check in. Yes. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Because it is very odd that people are staying in the hotel at the same time because you're walking in gowns, gowns and people are just coming out from the pool or they're going, you know, to do their touristy thing. Yeah, and they're not checked. They're not checked. Exactly. And everybody's just sort of milling around. Yeah. And the other thing that, you know. I mean, at the lobby floor. At the lobby, yeah. And they're celebrities, of course.

30:12Right. They want to take photos of it. And I've, you know, and it's fun talking to celebrities. I was talking to a former New York Yankee baseball player is now Republican. Oh, good for you. Mark Teixeira. He's running for Congress and he's likely going to be in Congress. So you're milling about, and the owner of the Baltimore Orioles is about to chat with him. David Rubenstein is a big figure in politics. That conversation, though, never happened because then all hell broke loose. But it's a fun event. But when you go in, and this is really something they must change, and I don't think the Washington Hilton is going to host this again because of that problem.

30:44Everybody's saying that, yeah. It's just not going to happen. But when you go in, it's not like a sports event or a concert where they scan it in electronically. It's just a piece of paper, basically. And in this AI age, I couldn't do it because I'm an idiot in that area, but anyone can do it. Same here, by the way. Yeah, I wouldn't know how to do it, but it's amazing in that situation, even though you're very scared, your brain works so quickly. And I thought, they got in by forging a ticket because they look at the ticket for a second.

31:11Shelley:Right. And then, okay, bring it, you know. And no ID, no ID was checked this year. In the past, people remember, I don't remember this, but it makes sense that they did check IDs in the past. In the old days, they did. Because the line was so long. Exactly. Lines weren't long this time. I mean, it was like going to an airport. Yes. There was the ID and then the magnetometer or whatever it's called. But those were set up downstairs as opposed to outside the venue or right inside the venue. But they were always downstairs. They were always downstairs. Yeah. And I've been going since 2004, 2005. So I do think that it's, I remember after 9-11, Dick Cheney said, well, obviously as horrific as that was, it actually could have been worse if they had brought chemical weapons onto the plane.

32:00And they didn't. This could have been much worse. This could have been as Cash Patel, the head of the FBI, said dozens or hundreds of people could have died. And, you know, people were rattled. I was rattled. It was scary. That is so scary.

32:13Shelley:Well, let's talk about social media and Insta media, I suppose. So when you put your stuff out online, do you feel like it's going to your Washington Examiner readership, or does it go beyond, and were people putting stuff up on YouTube? Yeah, combination. Talk about the whole thing. So you guys are on YouTube, too? We are. We are on YouTube, yeah. We have a big video department. We're actually expanding it. That's a big area where we want, we have a good presence now, but we want to make it larger. So we're investing in video. Video is very important. YouTube is very important. And I learned that really from my kids years ago.

32:52They were like, we watch YouTube. I'm like, really? And I didn't watch YouTube at all. I can't believe it.

32:57Shelley:People literally watch YouTube as television. Oh, yeah, YouTube TV. Yeah. It's incredible. I know. I know. And they're going to have the Oscars and they're going to have a Super Bowl on YouTube. I know. And now Netflix and others like Amazon Prime have sporting events. So you've got to go where the audience is. So, yes, we put stuff on thewashingtonexaminer.com. We do opinion. We have both subscription and traffic. People in the Washington area, you can access the site. But if you're outside Washington, you need to subscribe. So we're doing a combination there. But we do a lot of videos, and YouTube is a key part of our plan.

33:35Shelley:Yeah. Yeah. And do you worry about the veracity of, I'm sure you've run into that too, because your kids will say, well, I saw this on YouTube. And you'll be like, no, it's not exactly right. Yeah. I've always said that, like, people ask me, okay, well, what are you looking for? I'm like, well, no one wants to see a boring movie. No one wants to read a boring article. But you also have to assess the source. Like, if you have a crazy uncle and he's recommending all these bad movies, okay, assess the source. Just like a news source. Is this a crazy news source or is this a legitimate news source that I can believe?

34:08And that's where, I mean, you've seen, you know, whether it's on Facebook or all these platforms, you just see. I mean, I remember months ago there were a number of posts saying the Pope was dead. The Pope wasn't dead. I mean, there's just so many bad things that are out there. And you've got to assess whether that's a credible news source. But a lot of people take advantage of that. And that's unfortunate.

34:28Shelley:Well, and combine it with AI. I mean, I've seen videos that look so real of people saying their husbands are dead or so sad. It's terrible. It is terrible. And it's only getting better, but in some ways that's worse. And as a news person, the thing that I would always send, and I send it annually to any newsroom I'm in, I remind people, it's April Fool's Day, so don't get fooled by any fake press news release. I mean, yes, I do still send that out but now you've got to watch out for AI videos that are just every day, you have to and I've looked at some things where I'm like, oh my, I think I'm pretty good at assessing it and I'm like that looks 100 % real and it's not Well, apparently I'm an idiot because I'm still stuck on like believing some of my emails are real and they're not and it's really embarrassing to admit but I got something I told my husband been, oh, you know, I could just re-register, you know, online.

35:28Shelley:It looks, you know, I forgot to send it to you. He's like, don't do anything. Yeah. And that's how they prey on people, especially older people. Yes. I know. And they make a lot of money. So it is something that you have to teach your kids and your parents about. Yourself. Yeah. Well, so how do you inoculate yourself from all of the AI or the mistruths? How do you, I guess, on the other hand, powerfully report the truth when everything else is, not everything else, but when there's a whole other stream of misinformation? Well, you've got to have a strong team that can also assess it. Because any newsroom needs strong teams.

36:04And a microphone, yes. But you do need to kind of assess everything on a case-by-case basis. And in journalism, I was talking to a doctor I play tennis with. He says, I use AI. I'm not replacing people. But I do the mundane tasks. And in journalism, there can be a place for AI, and hopefully it's not going to decimate the industry, but it's going to lead to change. It already has. But I always think that whether it's in health care or whatever the field is, you're going to need smart humans, maybe help by AI. I agree. But you're going to need people to direct either news coverage or to take care of people in the health care setting.

36:41But it is changing our world just like the Internet did.

36:45Shelley:Yeah. Well, you bring up so many interesting points. But with AI, have you caught a reporter using AI? And it doesn't have to be at the examiner. No, no. Anywhere. I haven't, but I've talked to friends who are like, I've got to do this assignment, so I'm just going to give it to AI. And then re-edit. Right. And that's fine. Like, my son, as I mentioned, he's in grad school. Like, our other kids or one of our kids is still at Virginia Tech. But at the same time, he has a side photography business. And he showed me his website, which is great. And I was saying, Kyle, this is really well written.

37:22You know how you're describing it. He's like, well, it's AI.

37:26Shelley:And it took him three seconds. Three seconds, yeah. Maybe edit a little bit here. And some AI sounds a little robotic, but it's getting better all the time. I know. It's just like the internet. Remember, the internet at first was slow. I'm like, this is so boring. I don't think this thing is going to take off. I was a little bit off on that. Right. But anything is going to get better, and AI has dramatically gotten better, and it's going to be really scary good, but also it's going to be scary bad in a few years. When you are looking back, and we were sort of on the road of looking back, what are some of your most extraordinary memories, or who was your greatest interview, or your holy smokes, I can't believe I'm in the room with you as a person?

38:10Well, I'll tell you one thing, because it's so current, that one thing, I've interviewed Trump five times, four times in person, and once over the phone when he complained about that story I mentioned. He's a very good interviewer because he will, if you, he's, like the first time we interviewed him was in 2015 in Trump Tower in New York. And again, I grew up in Manhattan, but I never really crossed paths with him until this day. And the staff said, you have 15 minutes, and he gave us 80. We asked tough but fair questions, and then we got invited back. And what you see is what you get. So he's one of the best interviews because he will answer tough questions as long as you're not obnoxious about it.

38:54So that was a lot of fun. Over the years, I remember after 9-11, I was reporting but not really reporting in general politics. I was more specified and covered covering agencies. But I learned that there there is a not a secret government system. But the problem with 9-11 was lawmakers couldn't communicate because if you remember, people who had phones back then, you couldn't get through. Yeah.

39:22Shelley:You're talking about the day of the day of. Right. So and so that was a real problem. So what the government did and still exists to this day, it's called the government emergency telecommunication system called gets. And I remember somebody say, you know what gets is. I'm like, I have no idea what gets this. And this was before Hurricane Katrina. I mentioned that for a reason. Well, they built this superhighway. So if you were a member of Congress, if you were a big shot in the financial industry. I love that phrase. You got access to this superhighway of, okay, you can make your calls if you use this system and you have a card.

39:57And I was like, I don't think a lot of people know about this. And so we interviewed 50 lawmakers, including Barack Obama, the senator at the time. And I said, do you have this card? And every lawmaker should have had it, but we found out a lot of them don't have it. And Obama said to me, I want that card. I want that card. And so anyway, I did this big story on it. And it was used during Hurricane Katrina because people need to communicate better. And it works. And that was, I wrote a huge story. It probably took me two months to report it. And it won first place in a journalism contest. And the other fun thing, and I worked with an intern on this, speaking of interns.

40:41Before the 2008 election, the Hill had done something on lawmakers who had visited Afghanistan and Iraq. And there was a Louisiana senator's office who called me and said, saw that story. and this was about five months or so after Hurricane Katrina had devastated the Gulf Coast. She said, why don't you do that? What lawmakers have gone to the Gulf Coast? Because they said, you don't really understand the devastation. I've talked to reporters who are down there, unless you actually see it.

41:09Shelley:First-hand experience. You can't. The video doesn't do it justice. So what we did with an intern took a lot of work, and there were a lot of people running on both sides in 2008. and actually Obama at that point had said he was running. So we had touched base with everybody who was either running or going to run. Now, we didn't ask Obama because he said he wasn't going to run and then he changed his mind later. So what happened was Joe Biden was on Meet the Press. We ran this story saying basically all these candidates have not even visited the Gulf Coast. Even they were invited six months afterward.

41:45And Louisiana Senator Mary Landrieu at the time was saying, Democrat at the time, she was saying, you can't be a leader of the free world if you haven't seen this. So Joe Biden and Senator George Allen, who was also running that year, or was thinking about running, was asked on Meet the Press by Tim Russert, you've been on Iowa, South Carolina, New Hampshire. Why haven't you been to the Gulf Coast? And Joe Biden stammered for seven straight seconds, and then he said, I'm going to go there. And John McCain, who also hadn't gone also the Next week, after our story ran, he said he planned a trip to the Gulf Coast.

42:20So that was kind of just a fun.

42:22Shelley:Yeah, well, it was very impactful. It was. And the intern, she had her name on the Meet the Press Chiron. And she was pretty excited. Wow. So, yeah. Well, I always watch Meet the Press. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've watched it for years. Me too. Yes. And so that was really kind of a fun moment. But there have been so many moments where I'm so lucky to be in the room with so many smart people. In the room where it happens? Exactly. Do you still have family in Manhattan? No. My mom passed away a few years ago. My dad's now still in the suburbs of Connecticut. But when they had real jobs, my mom was a teacher of the deaf.

43:01My dad worked for MetLife. But at night, they had rented an off, off, off Broadway theater company. And that got me into acting.

43:10Shelley:You're kidding. And so they got to know Larry David and Ted Danson before they were famous. Yeah. And so that got me into acting. I was also in a Pampers commercial. So that got me into Screen Actors Guild. As a child. As a child. Thank you. Yes. And then you can't find that on YouTube. My friends are like, where is that? I'm like, it doesn't exist. Well, it could be more. You can do it twice. Exactly. You can do it at both ends of your life. That's true. Exactly. Maybe I'll do it later in life. But yeah, it's pretty funny. So I was, they would put on Agatha Christie dramas on Thursday and Friday nights.

43:40No one got paid. That's incredible. And then I was, we would do children's plays. So I was, we would put on Jack and the Beanstalk. I was like eight or nine years old. I would be Jack in Jack and the Beanstalk. And Max, you know, the audience wasn't big. It was midtown Manhattan. It was a converted international school. A hundred people at most would go to it. But it was kind of normal to me, even though at the time I didn't realize how strange this is. Well, it's fantastic. And so I got a taste of the acting world. And it's so New York-y. It is, it is, it is. And it was a lot of fun. And so that got me.

44:10And I think, and I don't think I'm the greatest actor in the world, but at the same time, that experience of being on stage, I think, helped me do a lot of television appearances. I'm sure. And that kind of thing. And then, so, I did a lot of extra work, and I've been an extra in probably about 40 movies. You can see me in five. But then I landed speaking roles in Veep and Wonder Woman 1984. Yeah. But you have to try out for those. You know, you don't just get them.

44:32Shelley:So they don't call you. Well, they call you to try out. They do? Then it's like a one in a hundred job. Do they go through, like, anybody that has a SAG account or something? Yeah, you have to. It's kind of a cash-22. Like, you can't get those roles, speaking roles, unless you're in Screen Actors Guild. But how do you get in Screen Actors Guild for the most part? You've got to get a role. You've got to get a role. So it's weird. And so I had the Pampers thing. So that got me. And as long as you pay your Screen Actors Guild. Are you still getting money from that? Oh, yeah. Are you kidding? I was kidding.

44:59I still get royalties from Veep and Wonder Woman. Now, if you get cut, and I don't know whether I was going to get cut. I could tell by Veep I was kind of key to the story, so I didn't think I was going to be cut. But you never know. But if you're cut, you don't get royalties and you don't get a credit at the end of it. But the other day, I got a check from Veep, and I did that 13 years ago for 25 cents. Now, first, the royalties are hundreds of dollars. Right. And now they're like 25 cents. The Wonder Woman 1984, that can be big. That can be like six bucks now. But I do cash them.

45:34Shelley:You know, you're reminding me, I never get money back from my health insurance company, and I have like a$6 check, and I'm going to cash that too. Yes. They're very small. It's in my wallet. Yeah. Very small. So after I landed the cameo in Veep, people were like, oh, are you going to move to Hollywood? I said, I'm keeping my day job. Yeah, right. Because as a kid, I auditioned for a lot of things in New York City, and I didn't get them because if you get, you know, one in 100, they say that's a good percentage. I wanted to play sports after school. Right. So I told my parents, I'm done with that, at least for the time being.

46:05Shelley:That's so interesting. Well, I love this aspect of you. I love the podcast for many reasons, but most of all, it's because it's so fun to get to know people. And I always learn something new. Yes, and that's what I told them. Your Manhattan background is blowing my mind because I'm sure nobody thinks you're from Manhattan. Everyone thinks I'm from Manhattan. Yes. My mom, because of the theater thing, she wouldn't let me get the New York accent. So she was making sure that I didn't. So a lot of people think I'm from North Carolina, but I'm not from North Carolina. Or Connecticut. No, Connecticut.

46:37Shelley:You look very Connecticut. I'm a Connecticut. Yeah, kind of preppy. But at the same time, it is one of those things where I love, just like you do, learning what people do outside their jobs. Yeah. And even when I have the off the records with members or administration officials, I always ask, what do you do to get away? You need hobbies. Well, that's on my list for you. You need hobbies. Exactly. Like, what do people do? Exactly. And you can't, if you do your job and just, or just, and I've had conversations with reporters over the years. I'm like, you're going to burn out. You got to, you got to get, you got to get, take guitar lessons, whatever you want to do.

47:10Right. You got to have something else in your life. Yeah. Sometimes that's family, but sometimes it's family. It's got to be something else. Yeah. You got to do stuff for you.

47:18Shelley:Because family's not always unstressed. No, no. Especially on the holidays. We had, I think you were with me, Karan. Karan is here today. We have, as my mother would say, the number two person, the executive director of America 250. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And her life is, as you can imagine, rather busy. A bit crazy. And what she does is yoga. Okay. A lot, a lot of yoga. But it just makes so much sense. I mean, everybody has got to do something. You have to. And her episode was called Stay on Your Mat, which I really like. Because I don't do yoga, but you just have to. It's analogous to staying in your lane.

47:55Shelley:You know, like the mat is this big. You can't look at what everybody else is doing. You just have to kind of stay on your mat. I don't do yoga, but I've had guys, women as well, but even some close friends who are like, they swear by it. Yeah, yoga. Because it makes you so flexible. And it doesn't feel like you're moving or doing anything, and then your body will be sore, and then their arms are super sculpted. Right. I'm never going to do it, but I hear it's good. So how good of a tennis player are you? Well, I'm not as good as I used to be. I used to teach tennis. Was it D2? No, it was actually D1.

48:31It was? Now, that doesn't mean anything, though. It certainly does. We played Maryland, and we did not beat Maryland. University of? University of.

48:43Shelley:I just want to tell you, I went to Rollins. I played for a semester of tennis. But, I mean. No, we would play Division I, II, and III. But in our conference in Division I, we finished second in the conference championships, which killed me. But, yeah, I am, right now I'm rated, if you know the USTA ratings, a 4.5. Wow. So that's still pretty high. For your age group or in general? No, just in general. You're kidding. Now, eventually as I age, I'm going to go down. But I was probably a 5.0. But with all due respect, you're not terribly, you're not as young as Karan and you're still a 4.5. Yeah.

49:17Shelley:That's great. Yeah, because, yeah, if you lose too much. It's better than most Uber people. Yeah, no, it's fun. I play doubles, but as I've gotten older, I play competitive doubles every Sunday, and I still play in USTA. Mixed or? I haven't played mixed in a while. I've noticed a lot of the women cheat. Even my partner, I'm like, are you sure that was out? I think I'm going to keep that in. But I'm in leagues or club versus club, and so I still play, and it's great. It's my getaway. I love to play tennis. Once a week? once a week sometimes twice a week in the summer because i was gonna say once a week isn't that much no it's not that much i wish i could keep up it's muscle memory yeah and but i need that at least once a week yeah that uh and i play golf um oh good so i used to play basketball those days are over so but i really enjoy tennis um but you know it's it's a very tough sport i've been playing since i was six i actually after that in between time between graduating loyola and when i got a real job, I actually coached the Johns Hopkins tennis.

50:24Oh, wow. And I was teaching tennis. They're supposed to be really good. And they would play Loyola, so I was coaching against my old Loyola coach, which was odd. Right. So, yeah. You're like an NFL coach. I love this sport. Right. But the important thing is, for people who are raising kids, don't push your, I did not do it, because I learned from other parents, don't push your kids into a sport you love. Let them pick their own.

50:45Shelley:I know. And our kids like to play tennis, but if you push them into tennis, they're going to rebel. And what are your thoughts on pickleball? I'm a total tennis snob. Me too. I hate pickleball. My husband loves it. But he was also a squash player. Okay. So maybe that's why he likes it. I don't like the sound. I don't like the ball. I don't like squash. And I have tried pickleball. And I'm in minority because you know pickleball has taken over the world. I'm totally with you in that minority because I wish it would not take over the world. But people really love it. You know, and it's, I had a foot injury.

51:21I had a lot of injuries because of tennis over the years. My podiatrist said he loves pickleball. Why? Gives him business. Right. Because there's so many injuries. Oh, my God. But it's not the workout that tennis is. So I've tried it. No, it's not meant to be because people drink during that. Exactly. Right. So it's not for me.

51:37Shelley:Tell us about what your screenplays were about. Yeah. So how did you sit down? Like, did you think, oh, I'm not writing enough? I'm going to. Well, I'm toying with a few ideas. I keep notes. Oh, you still are. Oh, yeah. So basically, the screenwriting industry has, and I know someone who actually wrote a movie called Red Right Hand, who used to be at the Hill newspaper. Now, Red Right Hand was not the biggest movie, but it was Red Right Hand. It's not a bad movie if you haven't seen it. Andy McDowell was in it. Okay. And this guy who was at the Hill, he wrote this movie. Oh, thank you. So he wrote this movie, and it got made, which is so unusual.

52:20Yeah. And he left the Hill, and he's still in writing screenplays. Oh, because he got the high. He got the gig, and he got a writing credit, and so he's, you know, I'm still in touch with him. So basically the two screenplays are, one, a government conspiracy because of cost issues to conceal a cure for cancer. because the government can't afford it. And then the second one is about, and I wrote it actually for Jack Nicholson. This was a while back when he was younger, about 10 years younger, about kind of like a rain man type of consultant who has advised sports teams who have pulled off the biggest upsets.

52:58And so he's like a hired gun. And he knows, he's the reason why all these big upsets in sports have happened. And there's a little more to it. So what you have to do is you have to write it, first of all. Right. And then you've got to enter it into contests. And then hopefully you get an agent. And a lot of the agents, though, are very flaky. And since the two strikes, the writer's strike a few years ago, the industry is decimated. So now it's all about Netflix series. I mean, when's the last time? I can't remember the last time I went to a movie theater. I mean, it's been a while.

53:32Shelley:Everybody I know is saying that. And I really want to go. Oh, I'm going actually to see the Devil Wears Prada. Yes. Oh, yeah. The sequel. It's great. Yes. And so I wrote a couple, and then it was just people were interested in it. And then some were like, well, this is a political one. We're not interested. What else do you have? And so it was just exhausting trying to get a big-time agent. And so I took a break, but now I'm thinking about going back to it because I've got a couple other ideas. And honestly, it's like putting a puzzle together. And I really hate puzzles. But when you're done, the puzzle is great.

54:10You just got it done. So I'm thinking about writing one or two more because it's a good outlet outside of the true politics, nonfiction, to tackle fiction.

54:25Shelley:So, Bob, if you were going to have lunch anywhere in the world, where would it be and what would you be eating? Okay, anywhere in the world, okay, I would say I was once in Australia during college, and I remember coming back from Australia because I was only there a week, and I had a good friend who lived there, and Australia was the best seafood I've ever had. Really? Any seafood in Australia is phenomenal because I remember coming back from Australia, and my tennis coach was like, what is wrong with you? I had jet lag for like six days. Right. It was a disaster. Right. But I would say somewhere in Sydney, Australia, having any type of seafood because, you know, you got to watch the sharks, a lot of sharks in Australia.

55:09But the seafood there was the best food I've ever had in my life.

55:12Shelley:Well, that's fantastic. So, Bob, it is true you are really super nice. I'm just playing a role here. As advertised. And it's been very, very nice to meet you. Nice meeting you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. This has been fun. And, you know, like most people, I enjoy talking about myself. Yeah. And I enjoy listening about you. That's good. Thank you very much, everyone else, for listening to this episode. Please check out other episodes at www.lunchwithshelly.com or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. And in the meantime, and as always, peace, love, and lunch. Good stuff. That was fun.

55:58Good night.