Take A Risk – Life with No Regrets

21:52They are not women who are happy with their lives. That's true. They are women who are getting had, but are likely doing to be miserable and grouchy. Right. Exactly. I'm not fine. And I do like fun. And so I was taking notes, and it became evident over time that these women excelled in three areas. So I would look at my notes and kind of reconfigure things. What was I seeing? And there were three areas. Like any of us, I said, well, surely somebody's out there telling people about all this. Walking them through this. Right. And I did spend quite a bit of time going to people we know and researching online all of the obvious places where I thought this would be taking place and not finding it.

22:36Shelley:The book was very well researched, by the way. Thank you. And we can talk about that, too. Yeah, we're going to get there. I had somebody help me. I did it in 45 days. Damn it. You already brought that up. I can't believe it. But go ahead. Okay. Okay. So the women were driving me three. And I wanted an opportunity to write out a business plan and see if I could implement this. As the Lord would have it, that opportunity came in the form of I snapped my Achilles in two and had to have it reattached. And had to sit on the sofa for a series of days, as the doctor said, and not move. That is my husband's greatest fear, the Achilles.

23:15Shelley:What were you doing? Playing tennis. That's a good story. Thank God it wasn't like walking down the stairs. No, that's true. I mean, not thank God, but, you know. I got it. Right. So... And I sat and wrote a business plan. I went to somebody who had an organization that kind of lived in this world. And I said, I want to go test this theory. I want you to pay for it. And it took off like gangbusters. within a year and a half I knew I had perfected the delivery because of the response I was getting from women they would send me notes on how they were using this and how it was transforming in their minds who they were and what they wanted out of life and so I went and copyrighted so that's exciting so you copyrighted women's leadership series and the women leaders series the material in it so how long between your ankle and the copyright?

24:14Shelley:Was it like six months or a year? Everything is so abbreviated with you. It's about 12 to 18 months. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So you're sitting on the couch. It's resonating. And then you think, I've got to make it bigger. And then that's the book? Or tell us about the impetus of the book. The book was when I went out and did this. I did not quit my day job. I still own a public affairs firm in this town. But as I was going out and doing it, People were asking me, is there a book? The first person who asked me was a man I had in an audience in Orlando. And he came up to me afterwards and told me, I don't know, he was a coach, a therapist, something.

24:54And he said, I could use this with my clients. Is there a book? Oh. And I thought that was the nuttiest thing I'd ever heard. Oh, really?

25:04Shelley:It wasn't like ding, ding, ding? No. Okay. I'm not writing a book. I am barely getting through the day every day. I am. That's part of the purpose, again, of the book and the Women Leaders Series. You're listening to Lunch with Shelly. Well, OK, so the book, by the way, it's called Duct Tape and White Lies. So get back to, I mean, so the guy thinks you need this would be great in a book. And you say, no way. and then it gnaws on you and then three months later, four months later, you're like, you know what? That makes a lot of sense. The short version is then I start hearing it. And I'm hearing it from women.

25:46In your head? No. I'm hearing it from women. No. I'm hearing it from women. I want this book. I want this. I want this. I need more time. And my usual course of time for the workshop is about two and a half, three hours. And at times I think, isn't that enough time with me? Because a lot of people would find that. But they want takeaways, I guess. They want it, and they want it in a handbook form. They want it in a way that they can reference and use. I decided to look into it, put a book proposal together, and kept on thinking at every spot. Well, let's back up. Here's what I think. I think that back when I was studying those women who were thriving, who I defined as the real women leaders, they were not living with regret.

26:32They made plenty of mistakes that I call now I know. They were taking risks, and not everything works out, but they weren't sitting around with a bunch of what it could have showed us. Right. And when I was looking at this book and I was looking at putting this proposal together and every step along the way, I had decided not try, but I was going to see it to its conclusion. And if it had a conclusion and I ran into a wall, I could say, you know what, it wasn't supposed to be, there really isn't an interest in it out there.

27:03Shelley:Or you could stick a pin in it and always come back to it. Yes. Right. And I had somebody help me take it to some book agents. Yeah. So how did you do that? Okay. It was a quick book up. Oh, they liked it immediately? Well, based on from what I understand, remember I'm new to this industry. From what I understand, the timeline is for book agents to review books and decide what they're going to take on. I was told that it was very quick. Oh. I got an agent that I liked. I also was told in the agent process and the publisher process that if somebody wants your stuff, you should go for it. And I said, I'm not going to do business with somebody I don't like who doesn't get it.

27:48If you don't get my material, why would I be in a business arrangement with you on my material? Right. I got this agent. I liked her. She's from New York. and New York and Midwesterners have a very similar cut to the chase kind of way we speak. I liked her immediately. And I got an offer from a publisher that I liked. I had a number of offers from publishers, but I was on a Zoom with this woman and she got my material. She understood it. It's an all-female publishing house as well. Right. They got it.

28:25Shelley:So first you get an agent and then you found the publisher. The agent's job is to find the publisher. I mean, as a, well, for me or anybody who's thinking of writing a book, so that's the first step, you think, an agent? Because, you know, now everything is so, not nebulous, it's like a free-for-all. Like everyone kind of thinks you can do it on your own. You know what I mean? And that's a possibility. And I have a friend, you will note in the book cover that it's dedicated to a friend of mine who died of metastatic breast cancer. And she was in the industry, and she's the one who cheered it on.

29:07And she's the one who walked me through all of the options and put me in touch with different people just to get smart on the industry before I went in there. But first up is book proposal, number one. And there's a great book. It's got a clever name. It's called How to Write a Book Proposal. Yeah. And it's the EB Strunk, you know, book for book proposals. And then the second is to get an agent. The third is to get a publisher and sign a contract. And the fourth is to get this sucker written. Right, right.

29:37Shelley:And then have it come out. When is it coming out, by the way? March 3rd. Okay. Which is Women's Month, right? It's what I call an on-purpose. I use that as a noun. It was in time for Women's History Month And a week before International Women's Day Right, right, right Which also your book is very international Well, originally somebody had suggested that the book come out in June or July And I asked where it was I was supposed to find women to sell books to In the middle of the summer Well, because it's not a beach read Although it could be a beach read It's really well written And the thing that I like so much Tell me It's so easy And because I know you and like you so much, I can I have the benefit of hearing you in my mind.

30:22Shelley:So did you write it or I mean, did you have help? Like, obviously, you have an editor, but it really sounds like you do use a tape recorder. Do you just sit at your desk? Similar to a podcast. Since I've given this workshop so many times, I began by taping my workshop live by myself. That's great. Yeah. And the woman who runs my operations had it transcribed into AI. Is that Nadine? Yeah. Okay, she's very good. She's very good. And then I have a colleague who had offered me some significant advice on the book proposal, who's a best-selling author, who has a voice very similar to mine. And while I was working on the other pieces we can talk about at the book, she was taking that 70 % of the book and putting it in a book format rather than my spoken word format.

31:19Oh, that's awesome. So she was doing that parallel. Remember, we are on this very tight time frame that I insisted on. And I was doing two things. I was writing what I call the accessories in the book, those mini chapters. And the second thing I was working on was making sure I had collected all these stories. I had written all these stories down from other women and was incorporating them into the content in the right place. So we were kind of doing a dual track and would check in three times a week. And we're really, our process worked really well.

31:56Shelley:And so, like, did you start in September or October? I signed the contract. I was in Brussels. Were you so excited? I don't know that I was so excited. I was going to have this completed. I was in Brussels. It was May 15th. I signed the contract. I handed in the final manuscript on June 30th of 2025. Wow. So, okay, formally, the book is called Duct Tape and White Lies. So talk about the name. It's the response I would give whenever somebody would say something to me in town, like, how do you do it, Emily? What were you calling it? Life balance or something? Work-life balance. Work-life balance.

32:38How do you do it all? I'm like, there's a lot of duct tape in one. I, in part for, because none of us do this, a part of it is. Is that true that none of us do this? No, I'm saying nobody does this perfectly. And in fact, I hate it when people are seeking perfection because it's unattainable and it's miserable. Yeah. And it's completely unnecessary. Right. And it reminds me of in earlier years when people would tell me that their newborn slept through the night. I'm like, you're either drugging that kid or you're a liar. Right. Exactly. And that's just not true. It's a miracle child. Everything's going great.

33:26And I'm a big believer in a professional work environment. Nobody needs to be sharing that stuff. And in fact, oversharing it is where women lose a lot of power, is oversharing that kind of stuff. I lay out in the first pages of the book that when somebody says, how you doing, I'm like, fantastic. It doesn't mean like I may not be managing a complete crisis at home or a crisis at work. And usually they come in threes, right? So you've got all of this stuff and you think your life is just a dumpster fire. and all you want to do is cry, but you don't cry at work and you don't tell people everything's not fantastic.

34:06But Tuck Tape and White Lies, stop seeking perfection.

34:08Shelley:Just go do it. Well, and to your point, because you and I are both doers, I hate when perfection is the enemy of the good. It always is. Because it's saltifying. Because if you're waiting for perfection, you don't move or act. Yeah. It never happens. It never happens. And we talk about living that life of regret. and I use the term that I made up called dream slashers and it is a whole list of women things women make up that get in the way of them going to do what they want to do I always describe it I wrote this for us there is and us as in you and me or Quran do you care about the age group women in total the answer is yes what I found was there is an extraordinary amount of material out there for women that would generally fall in the genre.

34:58And some of it is very good, but it only works if you're in a specific kind of office environment with a conference room and specific kinds of people, and you're living a specific lifestyle or you live in a specific area. And I thought, what's the book for the woman leader who's in the executive suite, but also the woman who's the Walmart greeter, the one who's cleaning up the river in her town, or the one who's running for the school board, or the one who runs the construction site. Where's the book for her? And what I found about my material over the course of time, especially when I took it globally, is that these are keys to success for all women.

35:46This material does not change by culture, by age, by point of life, by level of sophistication. And so the goal of the book was, I'm going to write this for us. You can use this. And that's why I have stories from women of all industries all over the world. Just like you saying you're not a woman leader, you don't see yourself as that. I had a woman come up to me after the Women Leaders Series workshop in Minneapolis and tell me she's so glad she was there because she's been thinking for a long time And she wants to be a woman leader. And I was asking her about what she does now. Because she was telling me about where she wanted to head and be this leader.

36:27She's the charge nurse in an ER. Wow. I think that you had that anecdote in the book. Do you understand what an extraordinary leader you are under pressure all day? Especially now that everybody's seen the pit.

36:41Shelley:So, okay, so I love that you talk about the dream slashers. And maybe it wasn't to the point you just made, but dream slashers are mostly our own selves. No, no, this is, when I talk at the third part of the book about going now, Now, this was the third differentiator between women who are thriving in their life, was they were not waiting for things to happen. And a dream slasher to me is all of those things we make up in order to delay us taking action on something that matters to us. And I'm not talking about not doing the stuff we don't want to do, but the stuff that's actually important to us that we want.

37:28And the dream slashers, here's some of my favorites. When my kids get older, when my mom's not sick, once I lose 20 pounds, once I have the first$10 ,000 worth of investment, then I'm going to. And those are going to be, if you let the dream slashers get in your way, you're going to live a life of regret. And so, none of us, here was the other thing I hated about the books I saw out there. And I really hated this. And I hate it because I hear it on podcasts and I see it on talk shows. and it is people suggesting to what I call the communal us, people who live real lives. And remember, well over half of the women in this country are also caretakers for at least one other human being for time.

38:14We have very little discretionary time. And these are all people suggesting, if you put aside one hour or two hours a day, you can. I'm like, come spend a day in my life. Where's that coming from? Because I'm out of taking any more time off the limited sleep I get. And that's where women are. And so my thought was, how do we share that you can have what you want in whatever limited discretionary time you have every day? And I estimate that's between 2 % and 20 % of our day. But it differentiates by day or part of the year. Or, you know, how sick your mom is or how little your kids are or how much your husband wants.

38:57Whatever. And this snowstorm that may or may not be coming this weekend. And so I wanted to have people say, you know what, I can do this in my life. And I wanted you to know I get you because I am you.

39:10Shelley:Right. I love that about the book because, A, it's your voice. and so you're saying, but it comes through in the book. So then the opposite of dream slashers, I guess, would be, or part of that, to cut through the dream slashers, is the confidence part. So you talk about the confidence part. Like, how do you fake it till you make it? That's part of the white lies thing. That was what underlined all three of the fundamentals of these women who were thriving in life. If it was selling you in the brand management and understanding their brand and being able to use it, I always say, this is the key part, to get what you want.

39:54Or widening the circle and the whole networking portion of it to get what you want. No reason to have a network if you're not using it. And number three, going now and building an individualized plan of action for yourself to get what you want. What I found from the stories of all these women was this was a confidence booster. They thought more of themselves and had a higher threshold for themselves in terms of this big term now, scaling. What they were capable of doing and having had opened a whole window for them. And it's all about confidence. I tell a story in the book about a friend of mine who is a foreign minister for another country.

40:44And she talks about that voice in her head. The one that tells her she doesn't belong. She should question her judgment. It should make her feel smaller. All of that. She is the second most powerful person in her country. And we will never get rid of that voice. It's astounding. It's scientific. Why is that?

41:02Shelley:But I mean, that would be probably a great part. Duh. Thank you, darling. Is why? Why is it so feminine to feel that way? We are built. And that's why men and women are equal but different. Equal but different. And how we are different is our brains are wired differently. We were made to play different roles. And it is scientific. in my Emily Bachelor of Arts degree in Mizzou speak that we are made to protect ourselves. We are made to be cautious of ourselves. It's how we talk about women's intuition or our instinct that somebody's following us or we don't have a good sense. It's all false in that same thing about confidence.

41:49I need to have my wall up to protect myself is how we were built. So you do have to fiddle with it a little. You do have to fiddle. And you have to do a lot of cheers, girls, being comfortable, being uncomfortable, and putting yourself in situations that aren't less than what you want them to be. But at the same time, what I find is the more you do that, it builds up confidence. If you know anybody who or you yourself has ever been through CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy, it's the whole same premise. Your mind creates a chemical reaction that says, don't do this, don't do this. And the more you put yourself in that similar situation and the more the outcomes that your mind has made up might possibly happen, don't come true, the more your mind's not interested in fiddling with you anymore and you get more confidence because your mind's like, yeah, So she's gone to 15 networking events and nobody ever threw a drink in her face and said, you don't belong here.

42:53Leave. So your mind gets bored with it and you become much better at it.

42:58Shelley:Talk to us about women talking to men and men talking to women. Good question. A lot of what I'm going to talk about about women talking to men is based on Deborah Tannen, who has done multi-generational research as a linguist out of Georgetown University. He's kind of considered the premier expert on this. Here's how our brains are wired. Oh, by the way, there is backup significant data on this brain wiring at both Harvard and Stanford. So at times I'll get people who are so politically correct. They're like, men and women are the exact same. Like, you need to take it up with Georgetown. You need to take it up with Harvard.

43:38You need to take it up with Stanford. You don't need to take it up with Emily Lampkin. Nice draw. But here's how men and women are different. We, our brains are wired to look for consensus and commonality. That's often why our conversations start longer to start. We're looking for something in common. Oh, Kron and I, oh, we're, you know, are from the same part of the country. Oh, Shelly Himes and I, we have the same general friends or work contacts or our kids play the same sports, whatever it is. We like the same skin care products. We're looking for something in common. Men enter a conversation, their brain is wired that somebody in the conversation is the one up and somebody is the one down.

44:23Yeah. I liked this very much.

44:25Shelley:It was very clever. Or illustrative. Yes. Yes. And when I talk to women, I begin this by saying, if you are communicating with men the same way you're communicating with women, you are losing. Because when I am talking to you two, and we are in a conversation, I am going to use the term us or we. I am not going to interrupt another woman. She's going to think that that's rude or that I'm going to hurt her feelings if I do that. Not going to do that. When I am talking, for example, to a one-up man, I am going to use the term I. I am going to be incredibly clear in a business environment about what my accomplishments are.

45:13And I'm not going to say we did this. I'm not going to allude to it like I would with you all. I am going to come straight out and say it. And I might just interrupt him if he's going on too long. But I'm not going to be rude because the number one thing they are looking for is some acknowledgement of respect. Yeah. And my phrase of choice is often when I'm going to interrupt, you'll appreciate this. Right. It shows a level of respect. And he's curious what it is that he's already taking ownership of.

45:49Shelley:Well, you're already, it implies that you're like sort of in cahoots with each other. For sure, is he? Yeah. I love when people say that to me. Thank you so much. I also, with men, I'm going to say. Yours is fine. You can just do it. I'm just kidding. Go ahead. I need your help. You are or are not going to say that? Oh, I'm totally going to say that. Those specific words trigger something in their mind. I've been told by some women that that is not a feminist statement And I said if it gets a man to take action on your behalf I can't think of anything more feminist Yeah, exactly I need your help How many men are willing to do something What they want to know in return Is that you offer them a sincere thank you with a smile And they will take another task Right This cheesecake, by the way, is insane And I so don't need it But I'm so happy to eat it.

46:46Here's what I will say about men communicating with women. Men need to do their best to communicate with women in that same way that they are showing respect. Yeah. I believe in a professional environment, anywhere in the globe, I have not found that women's number one goal is to be seen as somebody who deserves respect, regardless of, you know, your age, your experience. They want to have an acknowledgement that they deserve respect and speak to them in a way that is professional and sincere. Yeah. Now, they don't do things the same way we do. We are experts at empathy. And if a woman is not empathetic, we don't always know to put our finger on it, but we know it's missing.

47:45We do not need to end up being men, and men do not need to end up being women. Men do not need to ask me in a professional work environment what my feelings are. In fact, I hate the term feeling and feels in a work environment. I always tell women it is not a business word. It's a word for your therapist, your mom, and your girlfriends. Yeah. And it's not a, nobody ever feels anything about a business deal. Like what, I literally hear, how do you feel about this business deal? I don't have any feelings about a business deal, but I do have feelings about, you know, my children, my friends, the future of my life.

48:19Would a better question be than what are your thoughts on this? I think what are your thoughts or just taking the word feel out. Typically there's another verb right after it. You can go straight to the verb.

48:28Shelley:And, you know, by the way, the book is really good because Emily has a lot of suggestions. And that's one of the things I really like about this book is that it's not simply do this but don't do that. But it's, you know, here's how to have a party. Here's what to wear. Here's what to give as gifts. Here's how to write a thank you note. How to say no without saying no. Correct. How to get out of a conversation. Here's 10 ways to get out of a conversation. Right. I mean, it's very much how to. And by the way, I thought your outfit suggestions. I mean, like everything was very specific and very useful.

49:10Shelley:And the gifts that you were giving and the information is really good, Emily. Thank you. So I'm not going to ask how you feel about it, but are you proud of yourself? Come on, you have to say yes because you're that girl Yes, yes, yes, I don't think of it that way Well, see, that's like asking me if I'm a woman leader I have a level of satisfaction that I did it And I have a level of satisfaction that women find the material useful and helpful And that it brings us together Well, what would you say are your three top takeaways for anyone? And what would you want your three top takeaways for someone reading your book to be?

49:57Shelley:Any takeaways or whatever you want. It can all get rolled up into one. Okay. Take more risk. And all of us define risk differently. And all of us can take different risks. There's some girls I have to talk to who, frankly, are looking to cover their part of the apartment bill. and buy a sandwich. Yeah. So risk to them is different than risk to somebody, some of your guests that we've talked about who do have money and do want to try new things and have the ability both in terms of resources to try all sorts of things. Take risks. Women who live without regret and who are thriving in their life are taking risks.

50:36With risks means you're going to make mistakes. Mistakes are really good. They're called now I knows. I tell audiences, If I face planted every time I made a mistake, I wouldn't have any front teeth. But they are satisfaction because I also believe that they're cognitive behavioral therapy because you are going to run into some brick walls. And all of us have been knived by people. I mean, knives are out. I had an experience last year which really just kind of personally in my mind devastated me, how I was treated by a group of women. I got up the next morning and I thought, you're going to spend your brain time thinking about moving women forward or letting these women hang you up on something.

51:32and did I do it overnight? No, but I forced them out of, you don't get your own space in my world. You don't. And you don't get to dictate my character. I dictate my character and I dictate who I'm going to be. So that is my general, if there's anything, take a risk. Don't let people dictate your character and don't let those bad things take up your brain space.

51:57Shelley:You're listening to Lunch with Shelly. So, Em. Em. Emily. Are you living your dream? I mean, part of your book is talking about that course, that's the goal. So how are you doing? What I'm, good question. I am living my plan toward my dreams every day. And some days it's just for a couple minutes. And some days I have a great deal of time either living out my dreams or moving toward them. But am I doing it? Yes. Cool. And is that because you are focusing on women? You have a speaker series. You have a book that's coming out. Is this all part of the dream? It's all part of the dream. It's all part of it.

52:51Is there an end goal to the dream? I don't know that there's an end because at the end I'm sure it's going to be boring so I'm not going to do boring but my goal is to do the things I enjoy while still maintaining all of the obligations I have in life and that is the purpose of the Women Leaders Series and that is the purpose of this book because what we share as women is the things that we're obligated to that are critically important to us, but also wanting to live our dream. You write in your book that if someone wears a belt to an interview that they have an 80 % chance of getting the client?

53:37No. That is research from Tanya Raymond, who has written what I believe, and I believe I've read all of them, the best book on a body language for women and the messages we send. that if you wear a belt, it doesn't matter if you're size 2 or 2X to an interview, if you're a woman, I don't know if it's with a dress. And is it a belt in pants? Is it a belt on a dress? It's any belt. Good question. I also shouldn't wear red lipstick on an interview. Red lipstick is a no for a job interview. But that if you have a belt, you're much more likely to get the job. That is crazy. I don't know why things are.

54:14Shelley:I know that you are, per your book, a big reader. I'm a huge reader. Like a huge reader. I'm so impressed. So, actually, two questions. I loved your book. Is it coming out in audio, too, when it comes out in March? I don't. The answer is yes. The answer is yes. With your voice? I don't know that yet. It should be your voice. I agree. Good. I agree. Okay. And what are you reading right now? Like, do you have any recs? I have a ton. Anybody who's on Goodreads, I'm on Goodreads. What is Goodreads? It is the app for readers. It's where you keep all your books. Do you do book books? Or you do everything, right?

54:53Shelley:I do everything. I don't do a Kindle. Everything. I just do the old-fashioned. Me too. I'm going to pull up what's in my Audible right now. I am reading a book called Woman in Sweet Eleven, which is Ruth Ware's book after The Woman in Cabin Whatever. Oh, which is a movie, right? Yes. and a book called Get It Done by Gretchen Rubin about project management. Those are the two books I have. Emily, last question. If you could have lunch anywhere in the world, where would it be and what would you be having? I think I would be having tuna tartare or oysters. So I had one of my best lunches. I'm so happy.

55:40And I don't know that it matters where. I like to be with a friend in an intimate conversation. So thank you. I had both of them here today. Aw. Love that. I know. High fives around.

55:56Shelley:Emily, thank you so much for hanging out with me and Karan at Cafe Milano on this very sunny, very freezing day. I have been looking forward to this for weeks ever since we scheduled this. I love the book. I recommend the book highly, honestly, to everybody, male or female. Everybody knows someone that could easily get five, seven, ten super good tidbits from this. I am so impressed by you. I cannot believe you're an author. I really appreciate you taking the time, and it was really fun. And as we started, I knew it was going to be fun, and it was fun. Karan, had a great time, too. Thank you for being here.

56:41Shelley:Cafe Milano as always thank you for being here and all of the terrific service that we always get thank you everyone for listening and everyone check out other episodes at www.lenswithshelly.com or wherever you get your favorite podcasts and as always and in the meantime peace, love, and lunch