Aggregated Behaviors ARE Performance - Chapter 2 - Part 1

0:00Mark Horstman: Welcome to Manager Tools. This is Mike. And I'm Mark. Today's cast, Aggregated Behaviors are Performance, Chapter 2, Part 1 of 2.

0:11Michael Auzenne: As always, our content has been crafted by humans, and we're now certified by Proudly Human. The questions this cast answers are, what are behaviors? Where does performance and behaviors being separate go wrong? Feedback, reviews, and culture.

0:28Mark Horstman: And then finally, how to fix it. You want answers to these questions and more? Keep listening. Here we go.

0:38Mark Horstman: Distance erodes trust. Slowly, quietly, until you're managing people you barely know and wonder why engagement has dropped. More communication isn't the answer. Better communication delivered more deliberately is. The virtual effective remote manager conference gives you specific, actionable guidance on rebuilding trust and maintaining results when your team isn't in the same room. For more information, visit manager-tools.com forward slash E-R-M. Well, Mark, you've probably heard the phrase, his performance was great, but his behavior was terrible. And when he wouldn't change, we had to fire him.

1:22Mark Horstman: yeah i hope everybody else has heard that too yeah it'd be great because it's not a very smart

1:30Michael Auzenne: thing to say no and i'll tell you i i want to quote two famous guys here one a little bit later we'll quote peter drucker later but actually this idea of performance and behaviors being separate behaviors meaning personal stuff was reiterated by larry bossity in the book execution he talks about in his people system about how there are people who do great work. And he gives a couple of examples of conversations he had with people who people who are killing it with the numbers, but are hell on their team, on their people. And, you know, he says in there, sometimes they fix it, sometimes they don't, but he reiterates the lie or the misleading characterization that performance and behaviors are two separate things.

2:15Mark Horstman: Yeah. I got to go back and read execution again. Again, I keep on getting reminded I need to do that.

2:20Michael Auzenne: Yeah, it's my all-time favorite book that was written by a sitting executive. Jack Welch's book, From the Gut, I think, was second. And Larry and Jack know each other. And I worked with both of them. And Larry's book is not only does it talk about things at 30 ,000 feet, here are the systems. And those of you who are interested in coming to the Effective Executive Conference, you'll learn about strategy, operations, and people. not to the level of detail we'll teach you how to do it, but he talks openly about those three systems and how they work. And he not only explains it to you at the organizational level, he also gives specific examples of it in practice with letters he writes, conversations he has, meetings he has with people, how he holds people accountable, which I would argue that if I could start all over again, I would probably say accountability more often.

3:12Michael Auzenne: In fact, I'm thinking about writing a book called The Accountability Manager. You know, the person who's responsible. I actually heard of a company recently that said they're going to have a chief accountability officer. I said, gee, I thought that's what the CEO's job was. Good point. Yeah. And look, guys, we think this problem is far bigger than most organizations realize. this idea of performance is one thing, but behavior having to do with people and relationships is a terrible lesson that has all kinds of negative consequences. Managing and leading becomes significantly easier when we realize that performance is behavior, behavior is performance, and your relationships with other people are also behavior.

3:58Michael Auzenne: And the way you treat other people are also just behavior. We don't care if secretly you hate people. we just are going to hold you accountable for the right behaviors for trusting respectful um honest uh kind behaviors in terms of the words you say and how you say them and so on yeah yeah

4:17Mark Horstman: this lie that people have been saying and linking those things or not linking them appropriately kind of gives credence to the idea that management you know effective managers it's it's personality based as you're you're born with you're not born with it right right but if you if you give that up, right? And you start thinking about how you communicate the words you say, how you say them, et cetera. We'll talk more about that later. Then you rapidly realize that it's not personality-based. Anybody can behave how they want to behave at any given point. If you're

4:52Michael Auzenne: mature, they just don't want to.

4:53Mark Horstman: They just don't want that. You're right. They just don't want to.

4:55Michael Auzenne: Yeah. And you don't get paid for what you want to do. You get paid for what you're supposed to do. and part of your payment is for all of performance which includes relationships. Okay so here's our outline. First we're going to do something we don't do very often but we probably should. We're going to cover what behaviors are going back to our first podcast which is Matt Bentliff's favorite podcast of all which is aggregated behaviors are performance. That's where the first time we're really detailed out behaviors and then we're going to talk about where does this lie that we get told, performance and behaviors is what we're calling it, where does that lie go wrong?

5:35Michael Auzenne: And particularly in feedback and reviews and culture. And then we're going to talk about how to fix it for each of the three, feedback, reviews, and culture. That's great.

5:47Mark Horstman: I am thrilled that we're going to go back and define behaviors. Because I've told, I'm sure I've said it on this podcast a hundred times if I said it once, but one of the great learnings I had from you when you first consulted for me 30 years ago, whatever, a long time ago now, was about behaviors. That was the, I mean, I learned a lot, the whole organization learned a lot during the process, but that was the one for me. Like, oh, start thinking about performance and behaviors, right? Yep. So let's talk about what our behaviors, we need to define that. Because If somebody hasn't listened to our podcast, we have a lot of new listeners.

6:28Mark Horstman: They may have missed this. And that's a shame because it's really important. Yeah.

6:34Michael Auzenne: And the archive is so big, it's hard to find everything and so on. So behaviors are six things, okay, as we define them. And they are the words you say, how you say them, your facial expressions, your body language, your work product, and the work product includes a number of things. I guess technically one, two, three, four. And included in work product are six areas that we're going to cover in more detail, which are quality, quantity, accuracy, timeliness, documentation, and relationships, which surprises a lot of people. And yet people know that they're responsible for their relationships with other people.

7:20Michael Auzenne: They just don't realize that it's work product. Well, the reason it's work product is because the organization relies on that. If you don't, if no one has any relationships, you don't have an organization and the organization might as well be defunct, might as well be disbanded. Okay. So let's take them one by one and go into detail. This is going to take several minutes, guys. So if you're used to this, you may want to skip forward or I think probably to the second half of this, of this cast or part two of the cast. First of all, let's start with the words you say. There is a difference, both audible, you can hear it, and measurable between the salesman who asks, can I place that order for you, right?

8:00Michael Auzenne: He's talking to a customer. And the salesman who says, I hope you'll consider placing an order. Both mean well, their intent is good, probably because they're at that stage, their motivation is good, okay? They would certainly say they meant well, but meaning well and saying those two things will likely give you different results in the long run. If we're just going to measure people on meaning well, then either one of those will work. But our data show pretty conclusively, talk to anybody in sales, and there's a difference between a question and a statement. One, can I place that order, is a question.

8:38Michael Auzenne: And it's the right way to close a sale because when you ask a question, the person on the other side of the conversation is obligated to respond. And so they say yes or no, or they point out an objection and then you get to handle the objection and get to ask again. The other one is just a hopeful statement. If you say to a customer, I hope you'll consider placing an order, they say, thank you, I will. You leave feeling good. Your motivation was good, but you engage in the wrong behavior and as such missed an opportunity for a sale and you leave feeling good again. Again, performance is not about feelings, it's about behavior.

9:12Michael Auzenne: So your feelings mean nothing if the person decides not to buy. In fact, customers, when they're told, I hope you'll place an order, they secretly laugh a little bit like, this is great. I don't have to make a decision. Now they may choose to make an order or not, doesn't matter, but they love that. They're like, okay, this is an immature, you know, a professionally immature salesperson who thinks his hopes or her hopes are what matter.

9:35Mark Horstman: Yeah. It's just, I love this example because I don't know how many times I've seen somebody coaching somebody on sales, right? They're either getting sales or they're not getting sales, but any coach, any sales coach that stopped there and didn't talk about the behaviors that the person engaged in front of the person they're trying to sell to, it's not going to get very far with that salesperson.

9:58Michael Auzenne: Exactly. Um, look, the words you choose to say out loud are a choice. And different words, as we all know, produce different results. Your choice of words makes a difference in business results, and your choice of words are obviously a behavior. And look, furthermore, certain words are known to produce distinctly better results in certain situations than others. And you're obligated to know those or to ask about it and try to learn about them. This is why we have an entire system at Manager Tools built around DISC called the Effective Communications Conference, where we teach you how to communicate differently.

10:38Michael Auzenne: Not the way you naturally do, which works just fine with about a quarter of the world, give or take a quarter, but it doesn't work well. If I go to a high D and say, I'm really concerned about you, I'd like to sit down and talk to you. You know, high D is forceful and direct and no nonsense and assertive and sometimes even aggressive. And I say, you know, I'm concerned about you. The high D says, I don't care.

11:02Mark Horstman: There's going to be people hurt in that circumstance because brain matter will be flying all over the place. High D will be like, what?

11:11Michael Auzenne: Yeah. I'm worried about you. Yeah. The high D's like, I don't care. In fact, not only you're not motivating or encouraging or teaching the high D what you want, you're actually ticking them off. You're losing the connection that you're hoping to use to persuade them to change their behavior. It just happens all the time. If a high D is talking to a high C and he says, I want it done now. And the high C immediately reacts negatively because he or she believes there's more work that needs to be done. We don't have a perfect solution yet. And then the high D, not getting what he wants, raises his voice, which causes the high C to shut down in most cases.

11:56Michael Auzenne: And now we're not getting anywhere. And it's because of the high D or the high S's or anybody else's choice of words. And everyone thinks that their way of communicating is reasonably successful. And it is. If you're listening to us, you're reasonably successful. But the next phase in your development is to learn that different words work better with different people, and that's a behavior you get to choose. Look, suppose a production floor worker had just had his machine shut down, and while he was diagnosing it, he saw a completely stripped part that he knew would require ordering. Now, what if you came up to him and said, hey, what's going on?

12:37Michael Auzenne: What if he said, I'm working on it? Would you want that? or would you prefer if he said, I'm working on it and I think I have a stripped widget, which means downtime. Both of the statements are true. The intent might be fine, but the words are different. And the question becomes, which words are better? Look, I'll give you a silly one. The love of your life comes to you and in passing, waiting in line at a theater concessions line says, I'd kind of like to marry you. Do you want popcorn. Look, we suspect that those aren't words you prefer if you think that there's a proposal hidden in there somewhere.

13:14Mark Horstman: Well, unless you really like popcorn.

13:17Michael Auzenne: Yeah, yeah. And what's more, you would argue there are more effective words than that. And the words affect the meaning of the statement significantly. Even if the intent were the same, the words matter if they're likely to influence outcomes. Look, I'm a big fan of William F. Buckley. William F. Buckley, he wrote fiction and nonfiction. And he's particularly famous for being an incredibly good debater. He started doing that at Yale. I think he was the president of the debate club, or if he wasn't, he should have been. And people said about him that they lost arguments to him. They said they lost only, only because he is articulate, whereas they can just not quite give voice to their razor-like thoughts.

14:02Michael Auzenne: But the fact is, you cannot think what you cannot say in a professional capacity. What you think is not important until you put it into action. So you have to think about the words you're going to say in order to choose the words that you believe will be most effective. And that may not be what is natural for you. So that's behavior number one, the words you say. And what is the most frequent thing we do at the office and at work? Communication. Whether you're typing an email or saying it out loud or putting together a presentation, words you say, number one. Second thing, let's not kid ourselves.

14:37Michael Auzenne: how you say those words, the tone and tenor and speed and inflection that you choose to use in saying the words you choose to say, that all those can change your meaning intentionally or not, enormously. You know, the famous one is when somebody mentions two positives and ends up being a negative. When somebody says, I think this, and the other person says, yeah, right. Okay? I mean, yeah, is a positive word. Right's a positive word. But you put them together with a question mark at the end with a little bit of a derisive tone and everybody knows exactly what you mean. Right? So the tone of your delivery matters.

15:17Michael Auzenne: And our friend Michael Swenson teaches this beautifully in terms of teaching the idea of the importance of the tone that you use when you talk to other people. he uses a phrase that I'm going to try to say neutrally, which is, I didn't say you had an attitude problem. If you say, I didn't say you had an attitude problem, well, then someone else did. But you still do have an attitude problem, most likely. If I say, I didn't say you had an attitude problem, then probably what I am implying is that you do have an attitude problem and I'm allowing you to infer it from what I'm saying. Or if you say, I didn't say you had an attitude problem, well, then you've got some other kind of problem, right?

16:09Michael Auzenne: If you tell me you think you know how to solve a problem, but with a quiet, hesitant tone that I could reasonably infer as lacking in confidence, I might choose to give the job to someone whose words are delivered more quickly, more loudly, more briefly, while making eye contact with me. Yes, I can do that. As opposed to the other person, the first one going, yeah, I can do that, right? So, words you say and how you say them. Third behavior, your facial expressions. Usually, as an example, smiling when you agree to do something extra for a customer is perceived by customers as more professional than furrowing your brow and not smiling at all and saying, okay, I'll do it.

16:55Michael Auzenne: As opposed to the person says, okay, I'll do that. It's a completely different thing. And if you're smiling when you do it and your eyebrows go up, eyebrows going up, by the way, lowers your defensiveness because eyebrows exist to defend your eyes, and our eyes are very important to us, you change the meaning of what you're saying. You might say that you mean nothing by it. That's just the way you talk. But folks, we've said it before. In fact, somebody tweeted this the other day, Mike, and I chimed in. A community member tweeted this. Communication is what the listener does, but you're still responsible for making the communication in such a way so that the listener understands your intent and meaning not just the words people use words differently okay i think the statistic a lot of people have heard is that um meaning is determined seven percent based on the words we use 38 percent by tonal differences and 55 percent by non-verbal stuff facial expressions and body language.

18:02Michael Auzenne: If you hear an idea that somebody else is excited about and you choose not to smile, you can tell that they're excited and you choose not to smile. Folks, whether you think it's your problem or not, you allow the other person the inference that you are not excited about their idea. If they say, gee, I thought you'd be excited and And you say, well, why are you saying I'm not excited? Come on, guys. Don't be a jerk, okay? They're smiling, excited, and you're just looking at them and saying, okay, right? You're judging. And everybody knows you're judging. But we don't measure people based on their thoughts or their intent or their emotions or their attitudes.

18:42Michael Auzenne: We evaluate people based on their behaviors. And your behavior for the vast majority of people, including people in HR and probably your boss and everybody else was that you were attempting to say, I'm not as excited about this as you are. Now, that doesn't mean you have to be happy-go-lucky about it. You don't have to jump up and down, but you need to engage in normal, professional, interpersonal behaviors and have a facial expression that's responsive to the other person's state of mind that they're communicating to you with their words and the tone of their words and their facial expressions and their body language, okay?

19:20Michael Auzenne: If you've only just heard the idea, you're going to be seen in this situation as quickly disregarding somebody else's hard work. Now, perhaps you're right. Perhaps the idea isn't that good, but don't think of yourself as a relationship builder, and don't be surprised if this person doesn't tell you anything more about their idea, which, by the way, you may be obligated to hear, but they're just going to go around you now because you're clearly not on board. You can respond positively and then have questions. Now we're getting into words you say and how you say them, right? Next, body language.

19:56Michael Auzenne: Crossing one's arms isn't always just a response to being cold. We have an example at the Effective Manager Conference where we're teaching negative feedback where a person who works for you crosses his arms, rolls his eyes, says some derisive things. And inevitably one person says, well, I just crossed my arms because I'm cold. Yeah. Okay. We hear that a lot. It's not completely true. It's sometimes that is true, but many times when we're exchanging ideas in a meeting, crossing your arms says, I'm closed to that idea. And you have to take responsibility for the behaviors and the inferences other people make based on your behaviors.

20:36Mark Horstman: Yeah. In fact, the matter, if you're in a meeting, you're talking about something important. Somebody has an idea and you cross your arms and lean back. You could say you're cold, but it's still ineffective behavior. Yeah.

20:48Michael Auzenne: And look, you might think, God, this communication stuff is really hard. Yeah, it kind of is. It's actually not complex. It's not complicated. It just takes hard work because it's easier for all of us to just communicate the way we want to. But again, communication is what the listener does. It's what the other person perceives about what you said. you're responsible for the message getting through correctly to the other person. And if you use the wrong body language that puts people off, people are going to assume you're not a team player. Whether you like it or not, you could say, I was just cold.

21:19Michael Auzenne: Well, your boss would probably say, you're not cold that often. You can't be that cold all summer when everybody else is complaining about the air conditioning not working, right? Looking down when you're asked a direct question isn't perceived the same way as a response with eye contact. Okay. You get asked a question and you immediately look down before you respond. That's different than making eye contact.

21:40Mark Horstman: Yeah, because I'm thinking. Drumming your fingers. I'm thinking. I'm thinking of my answers. Yeah.

21:45Michael Auzenne: Drumming your fingers on a conference room table may, in your mind, mean nothing, but most people would argue that point with you. And again, communication is what the listener does. Now, folks, we're not saying there aren't some people who are hyper aware of every single slight that comes their way. No question about that. We're not talking about those people. We're talking about the vast majority of professionals trying to be effective, whether they're individual contributors or managers or leaders or executives or whatever, they will draw reasonable conclusions from your body language. Suppose a direct of yours, when asked about their status on a project, says to you, pretty good, while smiling and nodding her head and looking right in your eyes.

22:28Michael Auzenne: Again, this is body language, smiling, nodding your head, looking you in the eyes. Another one of your directs says, pretty good. After pausing, looking down, and then looking away. Can you honestly say that both answers mean the exact same thing to you? No, nobody intelligent, reasonable can. You can't. So body language matters. Now, look, we're not saying that one direct is right and the other is wrong here. But there are general agreements about the differences and what they mean in terms of effectiveness towards achieving results or performance, work performance.

23:08Mark Horstman: Distance erodes trust. Slowly, quietly, until you're managing people you barely know and wonder why engagement has dropped. More communication isn't the answer. Better communication delivered more deliberately is. The virtual effective remote manager conference gives you specific, actionable guidance on rebuilding trust and maintaining results when your team isn't in the same room. For more information, visit manager-tools.com forward slash E-R-M.

23:46Michael Auzenne: Now we come to the last area, which is my favorite area, because if I ask people what are behaviors, they will say, we're just saying how to say the fish, depression, body language. They'll say those four, okay? What's interesting about it is because that's the definition, because these are the things that go wrong when somebody has an interpersonal conflict with someone, that's why they say, oh, this is a behavioral problem, to my point about laribosity. Joe's got great numbers, but he's got a behavior problem because of these four things. What they're leaving out is that there are more than just these four behaviors and there are work product behaviors.

24:26Michael Auzenne: What you do and how well you do your job are behaviors also. Conceptually, this flows in part from your organization as an entity unto itself with you and your fellow associates as the arms and eyes and ears of the firm and the hands too. In the same way that your hands and eyes engage in your behavior, you engage in your firm's behaviors. And as we'll talk about later, the sum total of everybody's behaviors in the organization are the firm's behaviors and therefore the firm's culture as well. What this means is that your job responsibilities are a good starting point to think about what your behaviors ought to be at work.

25:12Michael Auzenne: Job responsibilities serve as a sort of an avatar for our work product behaviors. And if you think about it, I mean, we're going to share them with you. But if you think about it, you'd come up with this list within a half an hour. If you had a small group and you brainstorm, you'd come up with this list pretty quickly. But work product is defined more specifically as quality is first. How does your work compare to accepted standards of efficiency and excellence? What is the quality of your work? I remember a group, I was doing a team building thing, which I hated. But a client I loved asked me to do it.

25:51Michael Auzenne: So I drove over to Austin when I was living in Texas. And I did this team building thing for them. And they were supposed to build a tower out of a ream of paper. And one team had a seven-foot tower. Another team had a four-foot tower. And one team just left the ream of paper unwrapped, all 500 sheets of paper stacked on the floor. And that's a tower. Yeah, okay. They lost. They certainly lost. And they lost a pretty big. I think it was a hundred bucks to the winning team, which this is 30 years ago. So it was real money, I think. And the team that won really appreciated it, but the team that lost, they couldn't get along.

26:29Michael Auzenne: And so they just quit. And not only did they lose, but that was low quality work. They didn't think, they didn't talk, they didn't try to make something. They didn't pay attention to what the other teams were doing and learn from them. That's low quality work. If the goal is to get high and you come in last, that's low-quality work. Next is the quantity of your work. How much work have you done? This is certainly true in many jobs where there are numerical goals. You have to process 34 claims a week or whatever, though there are a lot of jobs that aren't measured formally where quantity can be assessed, and therefore it can be a behavior.

27:15Michael Auzenne: Accuracy. Does your work require rework or does it meet generally accepted practices in your profession? Are you accurate in your financial calculations, in your budget calculations? Are your slides accurate? You could perhaps say that was quality, but quality tends to take on a larger idea in people's minds. It's the totality of the work. It could be a quality presentation and there could be two inaccuracies in it. And so we've learned to separate quality and accuracy. So quality, quantity, accuracy. Next, timeliness. Okay. Do you meet deadlines? Speed can sometimes create inefficiency. Some people say I'm a slow worker.

28:00Michael Auzenne: Okay. But usually it's an enormous competitive advantage to go fast. Frequency of work product is also a part of timeliness. And by the way, your own timeliness in terms of your calendar is included too, being where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there. I've always found it funny that nobody ever connects the fact that the people who are always late to meetings don't necessarily miss more airline flights than anybody else. And the reason why is because people don't miss airline flights because they can't be late. If they're late to the airline flight, they miss it entirely and they don't get it.

28:37Michael Auzenne: You can come in 10 minutes late to a meeting and you don't miss the meeting. You miss the first 10 minutes. And if I had a dime for every time managers say, when we give them an example of somebody who's late to a meeting, but has a good idea in the meeting, and we want them to give positive feedback for the good idea. And they say to us, oh no, I've got to talk to them about the lateness in the meeting. Like, no, that's not true. It's absolutely not true. And I can prove it because people are late all the time and managers don't talk to them about it. And that causes them to continue being late.

29:11Michael Auzenne: If you want your people to be on time to meetings, all you have to do is give the ones who are on time positive feedback for being on time and give the people who are late negative feedback for being late. The behavior will change very quickly. If you use the manager tools feedback model, 93 % of instances where a direct has engaged in a behavior that's inefficient and you give negative feedback, 93 % of the time, it takes only one mention of the behavior, the lateness in the form of negative feedback still delivered positively because we're trying to encourage a positive outcome in the future.

29:46Michael Auzenne: 93 % of the time, they come back on track. They start showing up on time. Now they may fall off again, but then you'll have to give another 10 second edition of feedback, which surely shouldn't be thought of as a burden on your managerial calendar.

30:00Mark Horstman: It's a great thing. I mean, the feedback model is kind of magical because you teach somebody the feedback model and all of a sudden their their powers of perception just go off the charts they see all the negative things in the world

30:12Michael Auzenne: yes they do all right all right folks yeah and what's funny is you tell them about all the good stuff and they still don't see it this is why i often joke that well that's their job managers when that's right most managers think their job is to correct mistakes i'm like no it's not your job is to get results and to retain your people both of those things results from retention results in the future yeah yeah exactly and when you give feedback you focus on the future because there's nothing we can do about the past and if you want a positive future why wouldn't you deliver it with a positive tone i would argue mike that maybe of all the things that we have ever done spreading the word about feedback certainly one-on-ones are the things we hear the most about but if I could encourage managers to be as good at feedback as they were with one-on-ones, because they love one-on-ones, but many people struggle with feedback.

31:10Michael Auzenne: If I could snap my fingers and make that happen, we'd have a lot more CEOs in the manager tools community. We already have plenty, but we'd have a lot more.

31:18Mark Horstman: Yeah, I agree. Well, and the great thing, it's hard to talk about behaviors without talking about feedback, but that's the beauty of behaviors. People say, oh, I don't know how to get feedback. I don't know what to get feedback on. Yeah. Just look at behaviors. You're just awash in a sea of behavior.

31:36Michael Auzenne: Surrounded by it all the time. Yep. Good. Next, documentation. Okay. You're responsible for the communication and analysis and ideas, but analysis and ideas are not measurable. You're responsible for the communication you present to others in written and electronic form. Emails are behavior. You made choices about what you said and how you said it. This is very much akin to the words you say. Documents are just a physical representation of what you're saying, whether it's a deck, whether it's a spreadsheet, whether it's an email, whether it's a Word document. And that closes the loophole on, well, what about written stuff?

32:15Michael Auzenne: Is that words people say? Yes, it is. And how they say them? Yes, it is.

32:21Mark Horstman: And emojis, use or non-use of emojis is another form of behavior.

32:26Michael Auzenne: Yeah, exactly. If you get an email from somebody with a lot of, a generally positive email, they're not cursing you out or anything. And there are a bunch of exclamation points in there. And you don't respond with an exclamation point or two of your own. You're missing an opportunity. You're not building relationships as much. And if you send a lot of exclamation points to people who generally don't to you, you're missing the point as well. And lastly, this is one that surprises people, relationships. That's right, folks. Your relationships are an aggregated form of behavior. The words you say, how you say them, frequency, quality, timeliness, and so on.

33:06Michael Auzenne: Your organization demands that you maintain professionally viable relationships. This is the behavior that causes the lie to happen between performance and behavior. People don't realize that your responsibility for relationships makes your bad relationships, because you're a domineering boss in the example I've been using, means that your behavior is unacceptable, meaning your performance is unacceptable, because all of this work product is about performance. You cannot perform effectively in a modern organization with zero relationships. Otherwise, again, the organization might as well cease to exist.

33:50Michael Auzenne: If you don't build good relationships, that affects other parts of your work and the firm as well, and you're creating inefficiencies. And so, therefore, that's work product and therefore again behavior so this is how we define work behaviors all value creation flows from or at worst through behaviors in those cases where values value flows through behaviors we still recommend focusing on behaviors because they're measurable and inarguable both in feedback and in performance reviews and in culture which are the three things we're attacking in this version of aggregated behaviors are performance.

34:35Mark Horstman: All right, Mark, I think that's it. That's a good time to stop with our kind of summary of what behaviors are. And next week, we're going to get into where does performance behaviors go wrong?

34:46Michael Auzenne: Yeah. And one thing I like about the fact that we cut it here, I know it's long, guys. I know you want one podcast, but some things take longer than that. Rome wasn't built in a day. We only have, what, 2 ,000 podcasts. There's plenty more to go. Um, and I'm not going to make them all 23 minutes long because that's the length of your commute. But what I will say is now we can tell anybody who says, can you help me more with behaviors? Like, yes, go to our podcast, aggregated behaviors, our performance chapter two. And all we do in that cast is describe behaviors. Cool.

35:19Mark Horstman: Thanks everyone. And, uh, we'll finish this one up next time. I swear.

35:29Oh, oh, oh.