Stop collecting data. Start using it.

0:07Welcome back to the Mastering Sales and Negotiation podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Massey. This week, we were joined by Dr. Simon Hefti, co-founder and chairman of D1, a Zurich-based data and AI consultancy, to get under the skin of a challenge that comes up time and time again in sales teams, having plenty of data, but very little clarity. We talked about how most CRM data is retrospective, inconsistent and heavily focused on activity, which means it shows what's already happened but offers very little guidance on what to do next. So for today's quick win, I'm joined by Robin Hoyle to unpack what that means in practice.

0:45We'll be looking at how to move beyond data for data's sake, how to identify the signals that genuinely matter and why so many teams struggle to trust the data they already have. Robin's joining me because he works closely with sales teams navigating exactly this kind of challenge where data process and real world behavior don't always line up and where small shifts can make a big difference. So let's get into it.

1:16I think we can safely say that after that conversation there could be a lot of sales leaders out there quite overwhelmed with what they've just listened to and because there is so much data they've got to deal with, they know that, where do they start?

1:30Robin Hoyle:Well, I think that's true. I think if you're drowning under a sea of data, being able to judge what is good, what's not so good, what's accurate, what's out of date, and what's relevant and what's about giving you signals that you can actually use, the point that Simon Mare was actionable, that's really hard. The good thing is, you know, what is AI better at than just about anything else? It's about spotting patterns. That's what AI does really, really well. So there is a way through that, which is to be able to identify and make sense of the data that you already have. But clearly, there is no alternative to having accurate, up-to-date, and as close to possible live data.

2:16Robin Hoyle:If you're still working in an organization where everybody spends the last few days of the month updating the CRM for all the things they've done in the last 28 days, then you are in trouble. Yeah, it's never going to be accurate, is it? No, it's not. And it's not going to be, and what's more, it's relying on what have I remembered, where's that note that I wrote, where's that envelope that I wrote the conversation up on when I got back into the car, you know. It's all a bit crackers. And it just smacks of data for data's sake a little bit, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of sales organizations and salespeople, first of all, salespeople say, well, what value am I getting out of providing all this data?

2:55Robin Hoyle:So it becomes an administrative and bureaucratic burden. And sales leaders create a culture where that's okay. So if you think about culture as the way we do things around here, then that's the way they do things around here. But in actual fact, in that sense, culture is what's the worst behavior we're prepared to tolerate. And I have rarely seen sales leaders call out the fact that the CRM data is updated at the end of the month or the end of the quarter or whatever it is. And there's precious little in there beforehand. They just expect to have to chase people for it. And just get it done, just get it done, just get it done.

3:31It's not going to give you great data that you can action.

3:34Robin Hoyle:Or the story that you need. No, indeed. So there's a big shift in attitude required around why data is important and how it's used. And it starts with providing value to the sellers. I think what Simon said about literally sell people meditating on the fact that what do I need this data to tell me? What is going to create the picture, the backup for the picture I need? Yeah, I mean, this is classic cannot see the wood for the trees. You know, the idea of not being able to see the forest and see the vista because I'm focusing just on this thing, which is immediate now. And a lot of sales organizations run on that basis of, you know, constantly cycling, cycling, cycling and not necessarily taking the time to reflect and think and all the rest.

4:20So if Simon's right, and what AI and automation gives us is the opportunity to actually reduce that bureaucracy, such that we have more time to do the things that really matter.

4:32Robin Hoyle:Some of that will be more time in front of customers, more time having conversations that matter. Some of it will also be more time just thinking about where is my valuable time best spent? and how can I make the most of that time and what information do I need in order to do that? And that's where the data analysis piece comes from. So almost the planning for the conversation that you're going to have. Completely. Yeah, yeah. And that behavioural analysis within the call stuff that we were talking about there, that also obviously becomes really an important part of that data set too. It does, but you've got to analyse the right behaviour.

5:13Robin Hoyle:So, I mean, we would say that, wouldn't we? But I think a lot of what we see in organizations, whether they've got avatar-based simulation AI tools, which give people feedback on a tryout, or they've got live recording, which in some cases provides information and data and prompts to sellers while they're in the call. So if you're on a Teams call or if you're outbound sales within telephone systems, whatever it is, it's giving you feedback as and when you're doing the call. But the problem is, what is the behavior that it's analyzing? And again, you know, one of my favorite phrases, we've accorded importance to the things that are easy to count.

5:55Robin Hoyle:And so what we see in some of those systems is that they count how fast you're talking. is there evidence to suggest that if you speak more quickly or more slowly that that is somehow relevant in terms of whether or not you gain the business you gain a greater volume per deal you gain greater profitability your sales cycle shortens no it talks about the number of filler words that you use again is there any evidence that that impacts the sale no those are rubrics Those are measures and metrics which come from presentations. Right. And we are now applying them to conversations because we do not have anything to base that around.

6:35Well, in actual fact, excuse me, folks, we do. We do. We do. And it's really important to get to that level of data, that granularity of what is happening, what is the seller saying, and what is the reaction of the customer. and if we can get to that point of being able to analyze that real time might be a little tricky for people but certainly as close to real time as possible so that there's something that i can think about and go okay next time i have a similar conversation or next time i have a conversation

7:09Robin Hoyle:with that person this is what i'm going to do differently than i did last time that's useful it is useful and i think you'd also need you need that feedback from someone as well or you need to be able to run that through someone so i think that the sales coach the the the sales coach is the perfect person to be able to do that with you to be able to help you to do that look at the data plan for your conversation absolutely and if you take that client that that um simon talks about is doing 100 times 100 so they're doing 100 events for 100 people in each one where they're looking at what is it being automated what is the data telling us how can we use the data that we get when you come out of that four-hour session you're going to have more questions than answers how do we get those and those questions responded to in a positive way that's where the sales coach comes in whether that's the line manager or an individual within the team who's acting in that role somebody who can look at the data and help the individual to make sense of it to tell the story to think about what is actionable and then to help them focus on well which action are you going to take because it's very easy to say oh we could do this we could do that we could do that we could do that the job of a good coach is to help people make as good a choice as possible about the possible actions that are available but it's also to make themselves redundant so that over time that individual can do that for themselves now it doesn't mean that the sales coach has got no role to play but they're no longer talking about analyzing the data they're having a conversation about what the data shows and then they're having a conversation about okay so you looked at the data you chose that action what came out of that action how can we be better next time we have that kind of action to perform that is is how that relationship evolves so that you're kind of checking things off the list of saying right you've now got that tick in the box let's move to the next thing yeah and that approach to scaffolding the continued development of people is really important and it's based around a lot of data taking the subjectivity out of the picture and making it as objective as possible based on precedent and based on the strategy of the organization and where they want to get to.

9:23Those two things are vitally important to frame what the data is that you get. Perfect, Robin. I think some good advice there.