Building 'The World's Alternative Investment Marketplace' with Lawrence Calcano

28:44I'm not a financial advisor, but you need to buy these things with the right duration in your mind, and that's not a short one. The products do provide what I think of as liquidity features, opportunities if things change in your life to potentially either redeem all of it if there's not a big Q or redeem up to 5 % if you need to. I think that's a flexibility and a liquidity feature in the wrapper, but it doesn't mean that the product is liquid. And people should invest thinking that these products are going to solve an investment need they have that's medium to long term, not short term. So let's talk a little bit about the demand for this product.

29:28We've seen, at least on the institutional side, flows into alts now exceeding a trillion dollars a year. As that scales, what do you think are some of the challenges and bottlenecks for advisors to allocate more to privates? So I think education is still a very important issue for advisors. And if you think about where we are, a lot of the advisors in the mix have been doing it for a while. There are still a lot of advisors who haven't really gotten into these products yet. And so they're going to need more education, point one. Point two, how they invest is probably going to be different. So, for example, a lot of advisors use models with respect to their liquid portfolios.

30:15We believe that models will be a very important way in which people invest in alternatives. And that might mean models of just alternatives that get married to an otherwise liquid portfolio or models that include both liquid and illiquid investments together. We have brought both those types of products in partnerships with some managers into the market as well as partnerships with the infrastructure players. But I think models will represent an important way in which advisors allocate client assets to alternatives. So I've been hearing more and more about interest overseas in a global alternative platform.

30:55What do you think is driving the demand internationally versus what's driving the demand here? is the same thing or is it a sort of different approach? I think it's the same thing. The adoption's a little bit behind the US adoption. On our platform, in the alt space, we have over$65 billion of alternatives allocated from investors who live outside of the United States. Half of our 20 offices are outside the United States. We think it's a really important growth area for the market and our business. But I think a lot of the same things that drive advisors to introduce these products to clients, potential for incremental return, portfolio diversification, et cetera, are the same types of things that drive international interest as well.

31:42So let's talk a little bit about end-to-end technology. I know this is more than just a menu of alternative funds. Tell us a little bit about your whole tech stack and what it provides for any of your clients? So I think a lot of, you know, a lot of what people want help with out of the gate is just how do you build these portfolios? And we talked about education, but how do you build the portfolio? How do you construct portfolios that help match what an advisor's, what a client's goals and objectives are? So we've built technology to do that, which include all structured investments, annuities, along with all the liquid products that they might need.

32:23And then the ability, you know, one of the things we've tried to do as an organization is not only build an end-to-end solution out for alts, but do the same thing for structured investments, because those are important products for advisors and clients, as well as annuities and insurance. And what's happening in the market today, which I think is a really interesting and ongoing trend, is people are sort of looking at the different types of wrappers, they could be ETF wrappers, insurance wrappers, et cetera, wrapped around things like hedge funds or private equity funds, credit funds, et cetera.

32:59And so being able to help advisors think about how the products should be structured, how could they address client needs is a really important part of what we're doing. And then as I mentioned earlier, just being able to automate the whole workflow is really critical. I'll make one other point as it relates to tech, And that is, I think one of the issues for the industry is around data management. When you think about, we live in an ecosystem. When we first started the company, people used to say to me, oh, you guys are so disruptive. And I would always sort of very politely correct them and say, we're not trying to be disruptive.

33:37We're trying to be enabling. You know, there are a lot of infrastructure players out there that we're trying to help sort of achieve their goals. We're not trying to, like Amazon did to borders. We're not trying to push them out of business. We're trying to enable them to participate. And I think one of the things that has to happen now in the industry is all the different big constituents have to work together to help support clients. That means administrators, transfer agents, custodians, firms like iCapital, advisors, GPs. We all work together. And I think if we can get all of our systems to be better connected, things like tokenization and blockchain will help with that.

34:16it'll end up paying huge dividends for the advisor and for the end client. So it's funny, you mentioned disruptive. In 2013, there was nothing to disrupt. It was just a series of private offerings and nothing really, no umbrella, no platform that really pulled everything together. That's right. It was really a greenfield, which is why I say we're sort of enabling not disruptive. And the truth is that, you know, we're still scratching the surface. I mean, you know, BCG does a report every year and they look at global wealth. So last year, late in December, they put out a report that said there's$153 trillion in wealth owned by individuals.

35:02Okay. That's a huge number. It rivals the size of the institutional market. So there is a massive number of dollars that today, you know, in the U.S., I think the estimates are something like 2%, 2.5 % allocated to alts. Outside the United States, it's even less. There's a significant amount of wealth that is going to be looking to build even more sophisticated portfolios. So tools, technology, AI, tokenization, all of these things have to evolve to create a great experience for advisors and clients to make the best decisions they can in the asset allocation world. Really interesting. So let's stay with technology and innovation.

35:44You guys have built a number of fairly innovative technologies. You've bought, you've partnered. What is the calculus like? How do you decide whether you're going to buy something, build something, or just partner with a provider in the space to build out the platform? It's a combination of things. It's time to market. It's culture. Everything that we have purchased, we've made 24 acquisitions. Everything that we've purchased, we've integrated. And to me, that's really important because if the goal is to provide an integrated solution for advisors and GPs, if you don't integrate the things you buy, you're not really doing that, point one.

36:25And point two, if the people who join aren't integrated, then it doesn't work either, right? It's not just about technology. It's actually more about the people. And so spending a lot of time on culture and trying to figure out how do you bring things together, how do you create what I often refer to as one-eye capital is really critical. And I would say as time has evolved, I was always very focused on culture from the very start when we were a couple of people. It's even more important than ever, and it probably continues to occupy a very significant percentage of my time in trying to get people working together, put people in the right seats for them to be successful, and creating simple ideas that people can rally around.

37:17I mentioned this earlier, clients come first. What is it we need to do to help our clients succeed? And everything we do, we have to do together. Those two things are really unifying to our culture. So you guys did a big capital raise in 2025 that valued you at a pretty substantial multi-billion dollar level. What are you looking at for further raises? How are you deploying that sort of capital? Is it just build, build, build then eventually you become the biggest player in the space? So we've made, we've announced a couple of acquisitions since then. We're about to close our acquisition of Hexure.

37:57Hexure provides an e-app for annuities. So as I mentioned before, kind of the complete verticals. So that helps us complete our annuities vertical. So M &A will continue to be, you know, important sort of use of cash. And we continue to sort of actively look at what's out there. We continue to grow organically, but the model is self-financing. So we don't need outside capital to run our business. I'm a believer, though, when you think about, we talked about the duration of these assets. When we talk to financial advisors, financial advisors have to know that we're financed to be around for a long time.

38:34And so we've tried to finance ourselves in a way that our partners can look at us and say, they're going to be here to support me. And so a lot of it is just making sure we have a strong balance sheet to support our clients. It's always interesting when we see these big private entities go public in the alternative and private space. How do you think about that? How do you think about, you know, the Blackstones and Carlisles of the world and Apollos and whoever else? Well, look, I think going public allows firms to have access to capital, to have growth, leverage their growth, provide sort of secondary markets, if you will, for employees and other investors.

39:21You know, I think, you know, for us, we spend very little time actually thinking about that other than wanting to make sure we run the company with the discipline of a public company. We get our quarterly reports turned around, our monthly reports by the second day of every month, quarterly reports by the third day of the new quarter. And we turn the year-end results in a fast period of time as well. And so, you know, public – the process of being public creates some disciplines that we want to make sure we have. But it's not – you know, it's not something we're that focused on. There's two sides to every coin.

40:05You know, when you go public and the stock is going up, everyone's really excited and everyone's really happy. When you go public and you have massive corrections, which we live through pretty regularly, I'd say, and the stock goes down. Now, you've got to deal with the opposite of motivation. There's concern and so forth. And so you've got to make sure your employees aren't staring at the, I was going to say Quotron, but only you and I would know what that means. You know, it's so funny. I had a buddy whose firm got bought by Yahoo in 96, and he was telling me in 99, people just refreshing the screen console.

40:43That's all they did. It's so, I think there's an element to it that's super unproductive. So that's why we're in no rush to do that. You know, we want to make sure, as I said, we have a strong balance sheet, strong capital structure. You know, equity is an important part of our compensation for everybody. You know, 100 % of the employees have stock at iCapital. To me, that's a big cultural point in terms of bringing people together. But you need to, if you're going to provide that as part of someone's compensation, there needs to be some opportunity for people to get some liquidity. So over our history, we've provided for such opportunities for people to get a little liquidity.

41:20And as long as we stay private, we'll continue to try to find a way. It's limited, of course, but we try to find a way for people to get some liquidity from their equity holdings. Really interesting. Coming up, we continue our conversation with Lawrence Calcano, CEO and chairman of iCapital, discussing how he built the firm out to a trillion-dollar platform. I'm Barry Ritholtz. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

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44:07I'm Barry Ritholtz. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My extra special guest this week is Lawrence Calcano. He is the chairman and chief executive officer of iCapital, where he has been helping to build the firm since 2013. They now service over a trillion dollars in client assets on behalf of advisors and other professionals. So let's talk about what's going on today. Obviously, alts have been very hot for the past 10 years or so, increasingly so. They've been in the news for other reasons the past few months. But let's talk about the underlying structural shift before we get to any of the noisy stuff that's going on.

44:54How are advisors and individuals changing the way they access alternative structured investments, annuities, any of the products on your platform? Sure. So I think for the – if I can maybe make some divisions by wealth, the wealthier clients have tended to buy the private funds. Perhaps they'll invest either directly if they can make a$20 million investment or if not, if they're a million, five million or whatever, they usually come through a vehicle that we'll set up for them to access. And then we aggregate that capital and we look like one large investor to the institution, to the GP. So the wealthier clients tend to invest through those private vehicles across the board.

45:40And we think from a platform perspective, the way you've got to build these portfolios, if you have a credit and equity portfolio, debt and equity portfolio, and you want to build them or rebalance them, you can do that with a few mouse clicks, right? With all, if you target an allocation, it's 10 or 15 or 20%, you've got to build that. So it's really important. It takes time, in other words. It takes time. You need to make sure that you have sort of persistent access to quality product across all the strategies. So equity, credit, real estate, infrastructure, et cetera, hedge funds. And so our platform tries to provide that.

46:19but that wealthy individual will probably use private funds to build it. For the accredited investor, they'll probably use the registered funds to be able to build that and they will either buy individual registered funds or they might buy registered funds wrapped together. That's something that we're seeing a lot of the market do today where they'll wrap three or four or five different funds together to give people an exposure to maybe it's equity, Maybe it's a growth-oriented product where there's sort of a buyout, a growth, a venture kind of component. Or maybe it's an income-oriented product where you've got credit and real estate.

47:00Or maybe it's multi-asset where you've got all of that sort of wrapped together. We think there's lots of different ways. Every individual has a different set of needs and objectives. And so we think it's really important that there's a lot of flexibility in the system so people can allocate precisely what's important to a given client. So what you're describing sounds fundamentally different from how portfolios used to be constructed. How significant are these changes compared to, I won't even mention the 90s, but the 2010s? Look, I think what's happened, which is a good thing, is clients have access to more products to potentially meet their needs.

47:40It doesn't mean these products, by the way, are right for everybody. They're probably not right for a lot of people. But for those that have the ability to make these investments, the willingness to tolerate the illiquidity we talked about before, these products provide more opportunities to build the right portfolio. You think about the public markets, I mean, you spend a lot of time thinking about them. I know, you know, there are probably 150 ,000 private companies with sort of EBITDA or revenues greater than$100 million. And there are 5 ,000, 4 ,000 public companies. There are – the private markets are so much larger than the public markets.

48:24As you know, the public markets are increasingly dominated by a small number of stocks. And so accessing the private markets gives you access to a much broader set of possible investments. Again, not right for everybody, but for those who are looking to build more involved portfolios, there's an opportunity that the private markets enable you to pursue that you just don't get by buying just stocks and bonds. So that's one compelling reason. You can access companies you wouldn't get otherwise. What are some of the – sell us on the other reasons. Why else should an investor or an advisor who is alt-curious, why should they explore this space?

49:08Well, look, I'm decidedly not trying to sell anybody on anything, to be clear. But I think it's like anything else in life. We're all better off when we have some more choices. Now, by the way, there's a way in which those choices can be bucketed to make it easier for you to go through that decision-making process. But I think if you have more choices to build a portfolio where you're seeking longer-dated returns, you're seeking more portfolio diversification, these products provide you with more flexibility to create a diverse portfolio, potentially have a higher-returning portfolio. But ultimately, every person has got to make a decision that they can live with the products.

49:53So during the 2010s, we had 0 % interest rate, ZERP and QE and all that fun Fed stuff. And I think that's where private credit really caught the attention of a lot of investors and a lot of advisors. What do you mean my bond portfolio is yielding 3 % when, all right, you're trading off a little liquidity and you get 5%, 6%, 7%, 8 %? That's pretty attractive relative to the alternatives. Okay, you got to deal with the K-1, which nobody likes, but still your accountant will deal with it for double the yield you're getting in traditional treasuries or corporates. How has that moved from just straight up credit to private infrastructure, private equity, private real estate?

50:46It seems like that whole world has opened up dramatically. It has. And I would say that a lot of the private credit investments you could look at are floating rate. And so they still can provide opportunities for excess return, real alpha, because of the way they float. In fact, it was interesting in the early part of the century coming out of COVID, this decade, you had people, to your point, very actively buying private credit. And then when interest rates went up to like 5%, some people were earning like 10 % to 12 % on their private credit investments. And so they were then looking not about private credit versus public credit.

51:29They were looking at private credit at 10 % or 12 % versus private equity. and it being shorter duration, was that the right mix for them? And then right now we're seeing a lot more people focusing on equity as well. But you definitely had a period of time where private credit was very, very attractive. And I think where we sit today, I think a lot of people are very anxious to understand what the underlying credit quality is in these products. And I think there's certainly disruptive forces from AI that we've talked about, the industry talks about every single day. It's not clear to me that the existing portfolios are really in bad shape.

52:17I actually think the portfolios are likely in better shape than people think. I've spent a lot of time trying to talk to various managers of both equity and credit as to what they're seeing in terms of adoption. And while everybody is working on how to implement AI, it's not like existing software vendors are seeing their businesses dry up. That's not happening. And a lot of those are the borrowers of these private credit assets. So we'll need to get more information over the next several quarters on where we are with private credit. But my guess is the portfolios are in a lot better shape than people think.

52:55So we could talk about navigating some of the headlines, but you mentioned AI, and now I'm legally obligated to ask you a question. What are the most meaningful near-term applications of artificial intelligence within the alternative space? Is it administration and workflow? Is it identifying better or less great funds? Is it all of the back office? How is iCapital using AI in your business? We're actually, we have pilots going on across what we do. So if you take our tech stack, there are really two ways to think about it. One of which is the tech we use to empower clients and the technology that clients engage with.

53:42And the second is the technology we use to run our business. And there are big applications in both. And to give a couple of applications, when a manager comes to iCapital to raise a fund, we sort of build a sub-doc. AI can build that sub-doc for us very, very quickly. When a client comes to the site and wants to, they come to our marketplace and they want to describe to us what they're interested in and they hit toggles, et cetera. They go through a few steps to kind of inform us what they're interested in. AI can do that really, really quickly. There are a number of ways. The way we collect data.

54:22One of the services we provide to clients is we help advisors aggregate client data because a client might have held away data in lots of different places that you want to aggregate so you can present a holistic picture to your client. How we get that data, how we retrieve the data, how we extract data from documents, and then how we reassemble AI can help drive a lot of that. So the applications of AI are sort of significant across our entire platform. Really, really interesting. And we've been dancing around some of the negative headlines. How are you helping advisors navigate that these days?

55:03For the most part, it's a relatively small handful of companies. Everybody knows their names. but the cockroach theory has people waiting for the next GFC to unroll. We haven't really seen much like that. Well, I think this is such a smaller magnitude than the GFC. I don't think that we're anywhere near those types of concerns. You know, we're big believers in communications. I made a point earlier about how the ecosystem needs to work together. It really needs to work together now in terms of helping people understand what's happening. I think, generally speaking, that the industry, and when I say the industry, I mean the asset management industry, has to be even more transparent today than ever before.

55:51And I think, by the way, that's a good thing going forward. I think the alternative asset managers probably need to be more disclosive, more transparent to clients over time. But I think being out in front of clients, helping them understand the landscape and what's going on has been a big part of how we've spent a lot of time. And one of the things we're doing now is trying to organize the industry to get people on the GP side working together. I talked about transparency, getting information, educational material, not promotional material, but educational material to try to help create, again, a better and deeper level of understanding about these products.

56:35So I've been hearing a little bit about convergence lately between public and private markets. Yep. You're known as dealing with the private side. Do you ever see a day where private and public both ends up on your platform completely, full wallet share, et cetera? I think for us, we're really focused on helping people have very successful journeys with their private investments, their structured notes, annuities, et cetera. And so I think the way in which we will interact with the public markets will be more around these model portfolios I talked about and collaborating and partnering with the GPs and other sort of more of the public company, people who either provide models or have public investments and helping to create these model packages for investors to be able to invest holistically in a portfolio.

57:31I think that's probably how we'll play the public space in partnership and in concert with people who are experts in that area. Makes a lot of sense. Last question before our speed round. Given all these major technological shifts, what do you think is going to help redefine asset management going forward? We talked about – you mentioned tokenization. We hear about blockchain, AI, data analytics. What's the next big thing? By the way, I think the next big thing is the deep implementation of those technologies. We're still scratching the surface. Tokenization hasn't even hit private markets in any meaningful way yet.

58:12AI, same. So I think there is significant application of those technologies that will be meaningful. And I think really for the financial advisors, this reminds me to 10 years ago when all the robos were coming out. And there was this big debate, robo advisors versus human advisors. And I always thought that was a false choice. I always thought the best answer for clients was a great financial advisor who leveraged technology to create an incredible experience for their clients. And I think the same is true today. The best financial advisors are going to not be afraid of technology. They're going to adopt it and they're going to embrace it to create an incredible client experience.

58:56And that's sort of how I think the market will evolve in a constructive and positive way. All right. So let's jump into our speed round. These are really just quick answers so people kind of get a flavor of who you are, starting with who are your mentors who helped shape your career? Boy, I had a lot of mentors growing up, you know, and I think I always try to watch people and see what they did. There were several senior people at Goldman Sachs that I learned things from. I remember the head of investment banking once told me when I was like a young associate, he said the loneliest job on the planet is the CEO's job.

59:34So if you want to be a successful investment banker, make a friend of the CEO and be a sounding board and you'll have a good career. That was pretty good advice. But I remember the other piece of advice I got from another senior partner in banking was you always have to be intellectually honest. And a lot of people are afraid to be intellectually honest because they're calculating what's happening in the room versus being true to what you think and saying it and not being afraid to do that. And I've tried to really do that in all the things that I've done as I've grown in my career. Really interesting.

1:00:15What are you reading these days? What are some of your favorite books? I'm overwhelmed with work reading right now between what we're doing in our business and client stuff. I'm reading a lot of stuff on AI that sort of, if I were to admit the honest thing is I keep reading new AI books about AI and technology, AI in general. There are a lot of incredibly positive things about AI. There are a lot of risks with AI. And a couple of the books I've read recently were really focusing on the risks around unemployment, around control and governance. and when you get to natural intelligence, when AI reaches sort of human intelligence, what happens then?

1:01:03So there's a really exciting and bright side and there's really a dark side that's gonna need a lot of governance to protect all of us. A lot of guardrails. So if you don't have time to read, you have time to listen to podcasts or watch anything? What are you streaming? One of the, so that I'm married 33 years. And honestly, my wife and I are just binge watching a series of shows. We've gone through the whole Yellowstone saga, you know, the prequels. Did you get to Landman yet? Finished Landman, love Landman. Looking forward to watching the Peaky Blinders movie, which we haven't seen. But probably, you know, when I get home, when I'm sort of, when I put the work down, my wife and I tend to watch shows together.

1:01:44That sounds fun. Our final two questions. What sort of advice would you give to a recent college grad interested in a career in alternatives or investing? I would say, you know, the world owes you nothing. This is, by the way, what I say, I have several kids, you know, who have graduated college. And what I said to them, and I'd say to anyone at iCapital generally, the world owes you nothing. And what you get in this life is a function of what you work for. And I think that people need to be flexible. They need to have an open attitude. and that to me, at a given level of intelligence, that's what attitude makes the difference.

1:02:29It's funny, we all went through this work from home during COVID and now some people wanna continue to work remotely. And when you asked about mentors, a lot of the mentorship that I got, probably a lot of people got, was just being in the office, watching people, listening to people. How do they act? How do they treat other people? How do they behave in meetings? That's stuff that's super valuable, the osmosis learning. You don't get when you're sitting in your apartment on a Zoom screen. Zoom screen is one-dimensional. Life is multidimensional. And so I'm a huge, some people in the company love this, some people don't, but I'm a huge work from the office person because I believe that that multidimensional experience is much more powerful And it's better for every individual from a learning perspective.

1:03:21Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Although I do love those Fridays from home. No doubt. And final question, what do you know about the world of alternatives and investing and technology today? Might have been useful back in the mid-1980s when you were first getting started. I think probably I'll generalize that a little bit is patience. um you know i was sort of young and just you know hard charging and so forth and and and as a lot of us are um but you just you have to be patient you know it's funny i i we sponsor golfers and and i i watch golf i love golf and you see people they bogey holes uh john rom won the masters a few years ago he double bogeyed the first hole i remember i was standing there watching it and i I was like, it's over.

1:04:13It wasn't over. It was one hole. And it reminds me, my youngest daughter graduated Dartmouth a few years ago, and Roger Federer was the speaker. I recall that speech, and it was really amazing coming from him. It was an amazing speech. And one of the things he said is, in his career, he's won, and I may get the numbers slightly off, 80 % of his matches and 54 % of his points. and his point was, it's just the point. Right. You know, and I think that's a huge lesson. It's just the point. It happened. You lost it. You won it. You lost it. You move on. I think that's great advice and advice I wish I had had when I was younger.

1:04:56Lawrence, this has been absolutely fabulous. Thank you for being so generous with your time. We have been speaking with Lawrence Calcano, CEO and chairman of iCapital. If you enjoy this conversation, Well, check out any of the 650 we've done over the past 12 years. You can find those at iTunes, Apple, Spotify, Bloomberg, wherever you get your favorite podcasts. I would be remiss if I didn't thank the crack team that helps put these conversations together each week. Alexis Noriega is my video producer. Sean Russo is my researcher. Anna Luke is my podcast producer. I'm Barry Ritholtz. You've been watching Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio.

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