Brian Grazer: Scale your curiosity

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1:14Swainson's thrush. One of those birds that has a beautiful song, but you don't see them that often. They hang out in thick forests and they are migrating at night. That's Jessie Berry from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology in New York You can imagine this little songbird, smaller than a robin Traveling from perhaps somewhere in northern Ontario All the way to the mountains in the Andes Think about what they need to do to be ready for that journey And then the risks that they face along the way

1:58Those risks are an essential consideration in Jesse's work every day. Since 1970, North America's bird population has declined by around 3 billion. We can see it in the data, but we can also see it in our personal observations, where the numbers of birds that were around in the places that I went birding when I was a kid have already changed. To be able to see that shift in my lifetime is both tragic and motivating at the same time. The Swainson's thrush is one species at risk. Jessie believes that communication across the ornithological community could play a key role in the bird's protection.

2:41She and her team are well known for creating the app and networking hub eBird. eBird is a global community of birders. Folks anywhere in the world can submit their sightings. For the last 20 years, birders have been going in, putting in their observations, keeping track of what you've seen, seeing what your friends have seen. The bird-watching community is always trying to bring others into the fold and share. To track the migration pattern of Swainson's thrush, Jessie tapped her eBird network.

3:15Communities across the continent logged their sightings. Each sighting was a marker along the route of the bird's migration. After several months passed, Jessie traveled to South America to attend one of the biggest events in the birding calendar. I was down in Columbia at a bird fair. You've got hundreds of birders from around Columbia coming to this event. At the climax of the festival, Jessie took center stage to present her findings on Swainson's thrush.

3:47and so you're watching this animation where you can see the birds migrating north in the summer and then coming south in the winter and you're watching the heartbeat of the planet that was the first time that that map of that bird's migration had been seen in its entirety The room was applauding. There were tears. It's such a shared achievement. Thousands of people have put their time and energy into, you know, putting the data in for their backyard. It was a magical moment because you could feel that connection between the communities.

4:32With the mapping of the Swainson's thrush migration pattern, experts are now able to begin the fight for preservation. Deadly obstacles along the route can be monitored and amended, ensuring a safe passage for a species with a declining population in the U.S. Jesse's network helped ignite a breakthrough, and Jesse herself was able to achieve something impossible if working alone. For leaders everywhere, having the courage to lean on your community opens new doors and unleashes newfound creativity. Knowledge collected by one of your contacts could transform the way you tackle your next strategy, initiative, or project.

5:11The only thing stopping you from reaching out and giving that person a call is you. That's why I believe you need to build your network based on curiosity, not contacts. Doing so will give you a head start in generating and sustaining surprising ideas, opportunities, and discoveries. You've got to have incredible talent at every position. It's like this huge push. There are fires burning when you're going home. Can you believe it? Such an idiot. And then you go back to, this is totally going to be amazing. There are so many easy ways. I'm supposed to know what to do. I have no idea what to do.

5:46Sorry, we made a mistake. But you have to time it right. Oops. working as a three-bedroom apartment. Stuff that just seems absolutely nut balls. Ten years later, we're like, well, that's just how you do it. We haven't made it just how you do it.

6:01This is Masters of Scale.

6:09I'm Reid Hoffman, co-founder of LinkedIn, partner at Greylock, and your host. And I believe you need to build your network based on curiosity, not contacts. Doing so will give you a head start in generating and sustaining surprising ideas, opportunities, and discoveries. If you are a writer or artist, you may be familiar with the concept of the muse. In Greek and Roman mythology, the muses were nine goddesses often invoked by artists, writers, and scholars to seek inspiration and guidance in their creative endeavors. Over time, the definition expanded to refer to anyone, real or imaginary, who serves as a source of inspirational fuel for the creative process.

6:56Traditionally, artists would have one or two muses they'd call on. But imagine if you could build a network of muses. Thousands of inspirational people whose experience you could tap. Well, you can build a network like this. And you should. To do so, you need to engage in what I like to call networked curiosity. This is the practice of creating and maintaining a network full of diverse and interesting people who you've made time to learn from and connect with on a human level. Networked curiosity will change the way you see the world and the ideas you're capable of generating. By being an agent of curiosity, you'll instill curiosity in others, and they'll be more open to sharing deeper insights.

7:44This will also breathe new life into the way you consider your own leadership.

7:54However, impactful networking is easier said than done. To cultivate and maintain a healthy network takes skill and dedication, which is why I wanted to talk to Brian Grazer. Aside from being one of the most successful producers working in Hollywood, Brian is a master of networking and sparking human connection. As the co-founder of Imagine Entertainment, alongside famed director Ron Howard, Brian has produced a staggering number of hit movies and TV shows, including Apollo 13, Frost Nixon, Friday Night Lights, and 24. I also love how Brian's success in scaling his ability to create impactful stories is based on something that at first seems unscalable, one-to-one interactions.

8:38For decades, Brian systemized his networking by instigating a bi-weekly one-hour curiosity meeting with a new contact. These conversation companions can range from Hollywood icons to Uber drivers. Whoever his companion is, Brian's primary focus is to listen and learn. To understand how Brian started to develop this practice, we needed to grab our book bags and join Brian back at elementary school in the 1960s.

9:09Growing up, my dyslexia earned me straight Fs on my report card every single year. Brian's constant struggles in school rattled his self-confidence. But there was someone in his life who always helped him bounce back. I had a grandmother named Sonia Schwartz, tiny little Sonia, about, I had to be four foot ten. And she would look at my straight Fs and she'd say, you're going all the way. You know, you're going to be something. And I'd say, there's really no empirical data that supports that, Grandma.

9:49Brian's grandmother, Sonia, knew there was a way to accumulate expertise that didn't involve the classroom. She had a discipline in place. she every weekend would take me someplace new. She took me to Dodger Stadium. She took me to the Hollywood racetrack when I was 9 or 10 years old. And I learned to bet on the horses through her. We would constantly visit new places to eat of all types. Sonia introduced young Brian to the true vibrancy of Los Angeles. She also encouraged Brian to be curious, even if that meant going to extra effort to make connections. Here's Brian recalling a typical example from when they visited a restaurant.

10:35She'd introduce me to the chef. She'd always call, where's the big boss? So she'd introduce me to the big boss. So I was constantly interacting with new people, new ideas that would produce new experiences. Sonia is a prime example that you're never too old or experienced to stop asking questions. Seek wisdom wherever you can find it. You can find entrepreneurial inspiration anywhere. It doesn't have to be in your own industry or bubble. From a young age, Brian saw the power of making the effort to reach out to people of all walks of life. As a teenager and college student, Brian developed the confidence to engage with professors and authority figures.

11:18But once again, Brian realized he learned more outside of formal education. My first week after graduating college at USC, I asked myself, what did I learn in college? And I came to the quick conclusion I learned very little, quite frankly. Note that Brian isn't saying his professors and fellow students didn't have anything to teach him. Rather, the system of college education wasn't right for his way of learning. Although there was one class that stood out for Brian, a class in which he felt he'd actually learned something. So Brian decided to reach out to the professor who taught it. His name was Dr.

11:56Milton Walpin. He taught a psychology class. And I tracked him down during this first summer week. And he said, you've graduated. What do you need me for? And I said, well, I really just want to have a conversation with you because I wanted to codify this memory of my one class that I learned something from. The two sat down and discussed the deeper meanings behind the professor's class and wrestled with some of life's biggest questions. I realized in this one hour, I learned more than I'd ever learned in college. And I thought, I'm going to do this every single week with somebody. And I didn't know who that somebody would be.

12:35Seeking out more stimulating conversations became Brian's main focus. And he soon uncovered an ingenious way to fuel his curiosity engine. I was in my apartment complex in Santa Monica, and I overheard these three USC law graduates. It was almost like a contest between the three of them, talking about the easiest job they'd ever had. One guy said, you have to listen to what I had to do at Warner Brothers. For the most part, I just wandered the halls and had not much to do and paid well. He said, well, I would drive papers around and deliver them. But I just quit. When I overheard that, I dialed information, got the number of Warner Brothers, and asked for the legal department, got a meeting that day with the man in charge.

13:28And he hired me that day. Warner Brothers was one of the hottest studios of the time. Brian suddenly found himself surrounded by the bustle of the movie-making world. It was a place known for fleeting, transactional relationships. But Brian was determined to build more enduring and enlightening connections. The second week I was asked to deliver some papers, a huge stack of papers to Warren Beatty. And I knew very little about show business, but I certainly knew who Warren Beatty was. He was the biggest star in the world at the time. Papers in hand, Brian traveled through Hollywood to the Beverly Wilshire Hotel.

14:10At the time, Warren Beatty lived on the hotel's top floor. Someone comes down and says, give me the papers. And I just had this idea dart into my mind. I said to him, unless I hand these papers directly to Warren Beatty himself, the papers themselves are not authorized, and I'm going to have to take them back to Warner Brothers, and we'll just start this process over again. A second assistant comes down. He challenges it. I said, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to leave and go back to Warner Brothers. He said, okay, come on up. Brian's spontaneous gambit worked. After walking through the Baroque lobby and into the apartment, he was now face-to-face with Warren Beatty.

14:53While I handed the papers to Warren Beatty, I asked him a question. And that question wasn't really significant. It was just a way to start a conversation that was related to show business and to he as a human being specifically. And he turned it into an hour-long conversation on a couch and offered me an espresso. And we talked for an hour. And I gave him the papers and left. However forgettable, Brian's first question was, he managed to infect Warren with his curiosity. No matter who you're talking to, network curiosity only works if you show a deep interest in the person. Curiosity can act as a catalyst for meaningful conversation.

15:37even between a revered Hollywood star and a lowly young office assistant. So instill curiosity in those you meet by asking questions and showing enthusiasm. If your curiosity is infectious, you'll be surprised by the time and energy others will be willing to give you. This interaction with Warren Beatty opened Brian's eyes to the massive potential of working at Warner Brothers. I realized that I could do this every single time I had to deliver papers. I can say, I have to hand you the papers directly. I could just create list upon list of people that were making a difference in the entertainment business.

16:16And so not only did I deliver papers and have these meetings, but every day I would institute a new conversation. Heading into the early 1980s, Brian had already left Warner Brothers to begin producing TV pilots at Paramount. I had an office on the Paramount lot. And I opened up my window because I saw Ron Howard. I ripped it open and I yelled out the window just impulsively, Ron, Ron Howard. And he glanced at me and then kind of took off. So he eluded me, but I thought, you know, no, I really want to talk to him. I want to make Ron one of my curiosity conversations. Determined to pick Ron Howard's brain, Brian called Ron's office, went over his assistant, and soon enough, the day arrived for the two to meet.

17:05Ron, he came to my office. We shared movie ideas back and forth, back and forth, and we had this magical one-hour conversation with one another. What truly sealed the partnership was a mutual admiration for one another's energy and enthusiasm. We shared the same dream. I was aspiring to be a mainstream, big-time Hollywood producer, and he was aspiring to be a mainstream, big-time Hollywood director. We thought, wow, we should use our creative bandwidth to build a company that would enable us to make many movies at one time. You might recognize this story from our recent episode with Ron Howard.

17:51If you haven't heard that episode yet, it acts as a great companion piece to Brian's journey. The two, of course, went on to form one of the most fruitful partnerships in Hollywood history. This is another huge benefit of constantly building your curiosity network. You will vastly increase the odds of finding potential partners. This is why it pays to be bold in your network curiosity. In the case of Brian, it was scream out of a window bold. Brian and Ron founded the production company Imagine Entertainment in 1985. One of their first ideas as a duo was for a fantastical movie called Splash. About a romance between a man and a mermaid.

18:33It was thought of as the dumbest idea in Hollywood. Like, stay away from Brian Grazer, he's got that mermaid idea. As the producer, it was Brian's job to go and pitch Splash to studios all over Hollywood. I would tell everybody it wasn't just a mermaid idea, it was a love story. And love stories are as universality to them. But after hundreds and hundreds of no's, I got one person to say yes. And that was somebody at the Walt Disney Company at the time. As we know, Splash was a huge hit, helping propel Tom Hanks to megastar status. And getting Imagine recognized as an exciting new force in film.

19:18The chorus of no's that Brian endured is an echo of what most entrepreneurs have to endure. It also gave him an important insight into getting his projects made. The dumbest idea in Hollywood known by all got made and turned out to be a critical darling, and I got nominated for an Oscar. And I thought, wow, that means nobody knows anything, whether it's a movie story or a tech story or a consumer story. The parallel with the tech industry is just how do you get something that's contrarian but right? And frequently what I say that in the venture industry is your ideal investment is something that seems crazy right now and totally obvious two to three years from now.

20:00Was LinkedIn just a natural, like you thought, oh, that's going to grow and scale? No, a lot of people thought it was Bozoville. Both smart people and unexperienced people thought that LinkedIn was crazy. The smart people thought, hey, it's a network product, and you're going to have no value proposition until a lot of people are in it, so no one's going to join. Because first person, second person, third person, all no value proposition. And then the less experienced people were just like, well, who wants to do professional networking? Like, why would that be something? I mean, it's, you know, people only want to go meet, you know, Bill Gates or someone else.

20:35Basically, you don't know what you're doing. You're jumping off a cliff without a plane, without a parachute. It's going to be ugly. A great idea requires someone just as crazy as you are to see its potential and buy into it. The more sprawling your curiosity network, the better your chances are of finding that one other crazy person. But remember, it's not just about having a big network. It's about cultivating a network of open-minded individuals who are receptive to your curiosity. After the break, we'll hear how Brian prepares for his curiosity conversations and how he sparks human connection to ignite great ideas.

21:12So stay with us.

21:23This is Mike Nicholas, Capital One business customer and co-founder of Ansett Uncles, a plant-based restaurant and community space in Brooklyn, New York. And he's telling us how they started a product line. We already had a space in the community. The food was an extension of our lifestyle and our values. So we know we wanted to create something that was an offshoot to that. Our pepper sauce. That's my grandmother's recipe. That's like a liquid gold, right? If someone wants to approach us and ask us, what do we do? We provide flavor. Growing a product line is no small investment, but Mike and his wife and co-founder Nicole were able to manage with the help of their Capital One Business card.

22:01Working with Capital One Business, we're able to leverage our limits and utilize those points, making sure we can continue the scale at the speed that we need it to go. To learn more, go to CapitalOne.com slash business cards. Most single-function AI tools just gum up your workflow. Project management becomes a tedious relay race of copying, pasting, and switching tabs until you forget what you were even doing. Say hello to Superhuman. the AI productivity suite that gives you superpowers everywhere you work. With the intelligence of Grammarly, Mail, and Coda built right in, you get things done faster and collaborate seamlessly.

22:42Superhuman lets you handle multiple tasks wherever you're working. No more copy-pasting, no more jumping between AI tools, and there's no learning curve. Superhuman gets what you really need from day one. It understands your writing style, helps you focus on what matters, and proactively offers the next best step. Unleash your superhuman potential with AI that meets you where you work. Learn more at superhuman.com slash podcast. That's superhuman.com slash podcast. We all remember the choices that shape the course of our lives. In business, world-renowned venture capital firm Sequoia Capital calls them crucible moments.

23:20Their podcast brings you inside the pivotal decisions that defined some of today's most influential companies, like Stripe, Klarna, Zipline, and Supercell. Tune into Sequoia's new season of Crucible Moments to discover how some of the most transformational companies of the modern era were built. Crucible Moments is available everywhere you get your podcasts and at cruciblemoments.com. Go listen to Crucible Moments today. We're back with Brian Grazer. To see exclusive clips from my interview with Brian, head to the Masters of Scale YouTube channel. You'll be able to get more insights from Brian's career, including his rules for hiring directors and writers.

24:07Before the break, we heard how Brian set up the practice of weekly curiosity conversations, and how one of these led to his enduring partnership with Ron Howard. Before we dive into the next chapter of Brian's illustrious career, let's explore what work goes into these conversations and how you can make moments of networking more impactful. I had things that I would do prior to having any conversation. I'd do research on the person. I would try to learn something about their personal life and about what mattered to them.

24:44An example is the time Brian met fashion designer and filmmaker Tom Ford. I suggested some music that I thought he never heard, but would want to hear. Because of course, designers care a lot about music because it's a relevant ingredient to how they sell clothes. So I'd come with some sort of gift to them. I did that with Jay-Z as well. I try to find out the thing that they care about on a human and business level that they might not be given. and I could provide it. Yeah. Yeah, doing the work to show that you care, that it's a conversation, it's a dance between people. You care about what they're getting out of it and their engagement.