From warzones to boardrooms: José Andrés on leadership learned in the kitchen

0:00Scaling a business in the US can feel like a maze. Each state has its own payroll, benefits, and compliance rules, pulling your focus away from growth, which is why founders use Deal. Deal is the professional employer organization, or PEO, that gives you a dedicated HR expert, plus Fortune 500-level benefits for your team. The National Association of PEOs says businesses can grow twice as fast if they use one. So, if you're scaling, make it simple with Deal. Go to deel.com. slash MOS and get up to three months free. One of the patterns I've seen over and over and speaking with successful founders is this.

0:40They don't wait for HR problems to show up. They build solid systems early on so their company can grow without tripping over itself. JustWorks is one of those systems. JustWorks is the human resources platform that helps you scale without sacrificing your team's needs. It handles automated payroll, benefits, compliance, even international hiring, so you can scale your team without slowing your momentum. JustWorks secures your hiring systems so they don't cost you time, money, or people, which is how you scale with confidence. JustWorks for your people. We humans, we've been building in the last post-World War II a good world, a good world that in America is full of imperfections and that we need to work together to fix them?

1:32Of course, but you don't fix them burning everything down. You fix them by coming together to the table, realizing that problems never will be solved by finger pointing. Problems will always be solved sitting down in the table and coming together in how we find common ground. That's the way we build good intent, good empathy, good policy, that then becomes good politics because it's on behalf of all Americans. That's the way we should be doing it. So that's why, in a way, I'm hopeful.

2:14That's Jose Andres, chef, restaurateur, author, and founder of World Central Kitchen. Jose has a new book out, Change the Recipe, filled with lessons from Jose's life in the kitchen that can be applied to leadership and everyday life. We use the book as a jumping off point to discuss everything from what rules are worth breaking to the benefits of unplugging to why everyone has the potential, in Jose's words, to be superhuman. We also cover the ongoing hurdles that World Central Kitchen faces in multiple war zones around the world, the messy state of Trump's tariffs, and more. Above it all, Jose's enduring optimism shines through.

2:53I don't know about you, but I need to hear some of that right now. So let's dive in. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

3:06I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Jose Andres, renowned chef and restaurateur, TV host, author, father, husband, and founder of World Central Kitchen. Jose, it's great to see you again. Thanks for being here. Happy to be back, Bo. Yeah. So you have a new book out called Change the Recipe. Yes. It is not a cookbook. It's a book about building a better world. Or as the subtitle puts it, you can't build a better world without breaking some eggs. The book's filled with personal stories and advice. Why this book? Why now? Well, I don't even think it's a book. It's a few thoughts, a few ideas of my life since I was a little boy, all the way until now.

3:58And things I learn, things I learn from the right decision, things we learn maybe from the wrong decision, but that they help you to become better. Random stories that I wanted to share with my daughters. I wanted to share with anybody maybe interested in finding maybe answers to problems they face themselves. There's this theme in it that lessons from the kitchen are kind of applicable everywhere, you know, from the boardroom to everyday life, right? That's been your experience? Cooking for me has never been a job. It's been something I enjoy. Since I was a young boy going to work early in the morning to the kitchens, I remember I would get there early because for me, arriving to the kitchen early before anybody else got there was, I don't know, was so special.

4:57Used to see a kitchen come to life every single morning. From the moment you got there, like looking like a cave, dark, Like from the moment you turn on the first lights that you turn the ovens and everything began getting warmer and then everybody began arriving. It's like every day is spring, things coming up. So I spent a lot of time obviously in kitchens and not only in professional kitchens but also in the kitchen in my house. and I realized that there's a lot of moments and lessons that even at the time were not maybe meaningful to me because I was young or there are stories that kind of stay with me in my memory line of the past.

5:41And all of a sudden as I was growing up, I began giving them making sense of the moment. Even reimagining what my father wanted to tell me when he told me, you need to control the fire. Sometimes I kind of romanticize the moment. Maybe his words in his brain were not so deep. He only was telling me, control the fire or you cannot cook, literally. But then I began trying to imagine that maybe behind the words of wisdom were deeper and deeper and deeper stories. And what does the phrase, mind the fire, mean to you now? Well, you know, this came out of a story. It's me helping my dad. I will help my mama in the kitchen.

6:28Everybody in my house helped in the kitchen. My three brothers, myself, my father. But my mom was Monday through Friday. My father was more the weekend cook when more people probably will arrive. Gatherings we will do in a near forest or in a park. And my father would cook very often the big pot, the big paella, and I would be always in charge of the fire. One day I got upset because I wanted to do the cooking. I wanted to cook with him. I don't even remember the sad age, but it happened anywhere between my 11, 12, 13 years old. And my father didn't let me do the cooking because it was a very big one.

7:10The fire required a lot of support. No, I need you to concentrate on the fire. I got upset. He sent me away. And then my father told me, you must control the fire. If you don't learn how to control the fire, it's not cooking you can do. For a cook, a young cook in the making, controlling the fire is everything. I think we all need to find our fire. We need to control it. We need to master it. And then in a way, you can do anything you want with your life. You can do any cooking you want with your life. So I think we are all in this search, obviously, that what is our fire? What keeps us going?

7:48And are we able to master that so we can achieve anything we want? In a way, this is a story of controlling the fire. I was curious. As a cook, you think about individual dishes and you think about the meal, how it all comes together. And I'm wondering, in your other businesses at World Central Kitchen, all your ventures, like, how do you balance the focus between dishes and meals, you know, between projects and mission? Or are they not separate for you? Well, I'm 55, and I'm still a little bit confused of what my role in life is. Like the rest of us. And I think it's okay, because if you recognize you are confused sometimes, you keep searching.

8:34Maybe it's one of the reasons I turn everybody crazy around me, because I try to do so many things. But it's not the number of things I do. It's how diversified the world is, and the amount of things you want to be part of. Because I think it's good that you are involved. by being involved doesn't make you an expert. But at the very least, you're learning in real time with boots on the ground what happens. When I was a younger cook and I began being the chef of my restaurant and then partner and owner of my own restaurant company, I wish I knew more about business back then. I didn't go to business school.

9:18But then it applies to everything else. I am a cook that feeds the few. I always had the interest to be part of feeding the many. we all have a talent within us that goes beyond what we think of ourselves. In a way, I think everybody is a superhuman. They need to believe it. And they need to see the talents they have. And even talents they have and they don't pride themselves for it can be a very powerful tool for them to make people around them even better. So it's okay to move away from my business domain and become volunteering in a local soup kitchen, which is also food and it's also business in a way.

10:04The business of giving opportunity to people that have none. In the process, they become cooks. Like when I began joining DC Central Kitchen, which is my favorite NGO in America, that they do something as simple as giving people the chance to belong, training them to be cooks, feeding the homeless population, fighting food waste. Oh, my God. It's like we need more of this type of NGO that they have the mentality of for profit. In the process of all of that, uniting the dots, I become better at understanding what are the solutions to the problems we face versus blaming and finger pointing to everybody for everything is wrong.

10:47is involving yourself in everyday life that surrounds you to make, obviously, your business or your workplace better, to make your street better, to make your neighborhood better, obviously, your family, your friends. In the process, everybody's contributing. In order to do that, we don't have to do it, but I see that everybody has that feeling of doing something, being the coach on your children's game. That's an amazing way to create. It's a lot of ways everybody contributes. Only we need to make sure that all of that is multiplied in such a ways that then the problems stop being problems and become amazing opportunities to keep moving forward.

11:30Your fire is as a cook. But as you talk about all this, I mean, you've got fire as a business person, as someone who's trying to sort of use levers to amplify, even though you may not define yourself that way. Well, probably one of the – my company is in a good moment. Still, we are not out of the water completely after COVID. Many, many companies in America, especially in the area I know a little bit more, which is the restaurant company. We went through a lot of hardships and you keep looking at the future to make sure that there's decisions you keep making today. You make them learning from decisions maybe you made in the past and that you regret you made them before COVID came, for example.

12:16So it's always learning. And that's what I keep doing every day of my life. Along with the book, you also have a new TV show premiering shortly called Yes, Chef. Right. Co-host is Martha Stewart. It sounds like you two had fun together. Well, Martha is an amazing human being. My God is like so full of energy, so full of wisdom. And was it fun? Oh, it was very fun. And I put my phone away and dedicated myself used to do the show and have time to meet the people. that sometimes I'm realizing that I'm not even having the time to do it right now, even with my restaurants, because it becomes a very big mountain of more people you have to meet, more people, which is necessary.

13:07But this one moment, you are only one person. And I realized, and especially this last year, everything is very overwhelmed. So for me, doing the show was a way used to say, I'm going to do the show and I'm going to have fun. And I tried to meet every one of the cameramen. We shot in Toronto. Amazing people. And I met everybody I could. And we played the arts. And I kind of went two, three times to amazing restaurants in Toronto. I cook a lot at home because it was cold and snowy every day and there was raccoons all over the house. And I loved all of that. But this long story was to tell you that I really enjoyed the moment.

13:47But the message, what I realized is that sometimes in the last few years, I've been in the grumpy side more times than I like. And I realized that it has a lot to do with being overwhelmed sometimes, pressure on your shoulders of a lot of things you are living. That is not the fault of anyone, their own mind, because I'm the one that gets into so many things. that maybe I don't have to get into so many things. Even I have great people that manage them. I'm only just very lucky that when I open my mouth, things happen or they start happening. But I realize that sometimes you just to breathe in, breathe out, do one thing and put everything you got into the one thing allows you to fulfill and enjoy the moment so much more than when you keep always trying to do 100 things at once.

14:40And this is the big learning from this show. So, yeah, I hope the show will do great. I got to know Martha even more. I think we are now even, you need to ask her, but I think even more friends. We keep texting each other now. It was very, very, very special, very emotional because it's real people, real 12 chefs that they're going through their own life issues and restaurant issues. And they go into this competition that is a competition, but it's a quarter million dollar on the line. And in the process, they need to fulfill who they are as a chef, as a person, as a mother, as a father, as a boyfriend.

15:17Wow. All these things are going to be part of the show. So, yeah, NBC, 28th of April, 10 p.m. after The Voice, 10 episodes. Yes, chef. When we last talked, it was probably two plus years ago for this show, and you were focused on Ukraine. It was six months after Russia invaded Ukraine. World Central Kitchen was feeding millions of people. You just come back from talking to Zelensky. You were kind of struggling to maintain balance in your life. You know, you felt sort of this weight of others' troubles on you. Do you feel any lighter today? No. No. No. The last three years I have, if anything, they've been more brutal, right?

16:07It's been more than a year I didn't go back to Ukraine now, but again, one thing is Wolf Central Kitchen. Another thing is Jose Andres. And it's a good thing. Even obviously, I'm very involved with Wolf Central Kitchen. In the last days, we've been able to be delivering 60, I don't know, up to 100 we are trying to do, But big generators because many of the rural farmers, and especially cow milk producers, were in lack of electricity. All the electricity grid has been damaged enormously. It's many parts that they have zero electricity and probably will be years before they repaired. We've been able to deliver those massive generators that will simplify the lives of milk producers.

16:56We are doing other things. of that sort. We built a kitchen in the north in Chernihiv. And so we helped build one kitchen that is feeding, I don't know, up to 10 schools out of that central kitchen. Not close to the front lines, but close enough. I've been supporting an organization that is trying to bring the thousands and thousands of Ukrainian children that they've been taken by Russia. And obviously the efforts of World Central Kitchen, we are not doing the numbers we used to do, but We done over 300 million meals. We had, without a doubt, we were the biggest humanitarian organization in Ukraine, especially the first year and a half.

17:36We took over in the first year in ways nobody else was able to do. But it's no good or bad. It's the space we occupy. We are the quick, faster, and we can become very massive if we get the support of the people. Myself, personally, as one more volunteer, I've been in Ukraine. I was in Turkey, in Syria, on the huge earthquake. Everybody told me, you shouldn't go to Syria. And probably I was supposed to listen. But it was important for me that I saw with boots on the ground what was going on in Syria. We were able to put a lot of hundreds of thousands of meals every single day to help the people in northern Syria.

18:13Between a war, they're forgotten. Imagine. Wars of the wars when you already were in a hole even deeper. So for me, it was important we were there. And there we were. I've been in other scenarios. I was in Asheville in North Carolina in the mountains every day in a helicopter, joining the Bulls and Drug Kitchen team and delivering food. I was the same in Valencia, where more than 230 people also died in a big flooding that nobody saw coming, where thousands and thousands of homes disappeared. Tens of thousands, thousands of business were underwater. And I went there too, because obviously it's the country I come from, and I had to be there.

18:52even moments I say I don't want to do it anymore I don't have to I've been doing this 15 years now it's a volunteer job that's a mother but I have a hard time I stay away, I went Gaza I went Lebanon, I went Egypt I went Israel this last year has been hard the last almost 2 years so you mentioned we began feeding in Israel when Israel was attacked by Hamas at the same time we were in Gaza because we had to be in Gaza. Obviously, Gaza became much more massive for us. We reached close to half a million meals a day. We helped support almost 196 kitchens, which was the right thing to do, putting aside the wars, putting aside the inventions, putting aside.

19:39And that's what I've been doing, making sure that the least food gives opportunity and hope to people. This all comes with weight. Obviously, this last year, we lost seven members of Walsandra Kitchen. in a strike by the ADF. And obviously we're trying to still search for answers. We got some answers, but still you want more answers on behalf of everybody. And with a very simple idea that, you know, the future of anybody that is fighting with each other is just to live in peace. Can be Russians with Ukrainians, Israelites and Palestinians. It's the same questions from a lot of people. Why? You hear people from Israel that wanted to go to help feed in Palestine, people in Palestine that want to go help feed in Israel.

20:27I believe it's the silent majority that usually want goodness, that wants to live in peace. And that's what I obviously try to do personally, building longer tables, seeing people that maybe they were not meant to know each other or that they seem they are at odds with each other, to see that there's much more humanity within every one of them. And the vast majority of the people, I put my hand on the fire. that that's what they want. What is good for me must be good for you too. Jose's openness to varied communities runs counter to the what's-in-it-for-me vibe these days. So how can turning to others help us thrive as individuals, businesses, and countries, especially in a time of increasing volatility?

21:12We'll talk about that and more after the break. Stay with us.

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22:11And here's the best part. Join AWS Activate today and you could score up to$100 ,000 in AWS credits tailored to your stage and network. Go to aws.amazon.com slash activate and start building. Expanding your business in the U.S. can feel like a maze. Every state has its own payroll, benefits, and compliance rules, which can pull your focus away from growth. That's why founders use Deal. Deal is the professional employer organization, or PEO, that gives you a dedicated HR expert plus Fortune 500 level benefits for your team. The National Association of PEOs says businesses can grow twice as fast if they use one.

22:55So if you're scaling, make it simple with Deal. Go to deel.com slash mos and get up to three months free. Before the break, chef and World Central Kitchen founder Jose Andres previewed his new book, Change the Recipe, and talked about why longer tables, not higher walls, are critical to solving the world's biggest problems. Now he shares lessons about what rules are worth breaking, where he finds hope in the face of crisis, and more. Let's jump back in.

23:33One of the book's key themes is adaptability. And for many people, especially today, very volatile. There can be panic. There can be paralysis. How do you center yourself in those moments? And how much do you think adaptability is about sort of temperament versus something we can learn? I think the human DNA of who we are, we are a species that we are highly adaptable. we are not adaptable with our bodies meaning evolution happens over hundreds of thousands millions of years but our brain can and our heart can our heart in ways of things that you didn't care forever that didn't make you a bad person but Once you find out what something is like, your heart adapts.

24:33And we change. You talk in the book about breaking rules and that you need to break rules to make progress. Yeah. Obviously, that one can be used in many ways. Yeah. Because you could argue that our rules breaking being broken right now in our government. I want to ask you, because you're in favor of rule breaking sometimes to get certain things done. Let me tell you what rule breaking. What are different kinds of rules? Let me tell you what rule breaking is. It's like when you show up somewhere and somebody comes and tells you that you are not needed here. And you're looking around and you are only seeing hunger, destruction.

25:18I'm sorry, but, you know, I want to be respectful. but if I see that this need, we're going to stay here because our mission is not going to be following your guidance. It's going to be following what the people are telling us. And so this is a way of breaking rules. We were told sometimes in some hurricanes in America that some schools, we couldn't use the kitchens. and the school kitchen was the best kitchen in many kilometers around and was complicated to navigate through roads and destruction. And even we were told we couldn't use that kitchen. We used that kitchen. We got in trouble. We got in trouble until, oh, you're feeding 2 ,000 people every day?

26:10I think that's a rule that I will not even mind to pay a penalty or even be sent to. Right. You're okay if you pay a penalty for breaking those rules because the goal is important enough. That's what these breaking the rules means. Sometimes the rules are in your own brain. It's breaking the chains of the own rules that you set on your own that don't allow you to do the extra step to make something happen. Sometimes they're rules, they're not really rules. You've just taken them as rules. I want to ask you, there's something else you write about in the book, the difference between thinking like software and thinking like hardware.

26:51Can you explain what that is? Obviously, this is one that in emergencies I learned a long time ago. Very often in emergencies, you can hear presidents. We are positioning military or helicopters or boats or food or MREs or water or ambulances. Okay. All of that is hardware. The hardware are two things that will allow you to have a good response. Everybody is going to be working on bringing the hardware to ground zero. A week later, two weeks later, you are still in the business of being a transportation company that you are trying to move hardware from point A to ground zero. All of a sudden, you forgot who you were.

27:42Who you were. A feeding organization. Software will allow you to respond to your main mission, which is feeding people on day one. What software is? What do you have around to feed people? what is at your finger points today? I'm going to be perfect. I'm going to be pretty. You're not going to have logos. It's not going to be the perfect, clean basket container to go, maybe tamales in a banana leaf. Because it's the only thing we have. We don't even have forks tonight that allows you to give to somebody a piece of food that actually you can be holding in your hands as you are feeding day one in the heart of Puerto Rico.

28:26With nothing. So that's the hardware versus software. Never forget your mission. Never forget what you're there for. For any organization, every organization has to be having very clearly what your mission is. To the most simplistic, smaller phrase possible. And never let anybody forget that. If not, your mission becomes something else. Concentrating on the software will always allow you to be faster and quicker. As you're talking about technology, I recently did an episode with Mark Laurie, the founder of Wonder. Mark Laurie, yeah. Yes, you know, the food delivery app. I know you've collaborated with Wonder.