LIV Golf’s gambit to rewrite global sports, with Scott O’Neil

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0:59probably 90 years old. MLB, a hundred and some odd years old. NBA, 85 years old. Five years old. Okay.

1:10That's Scott O 'Neill, CEO of Live Golf, the upstart league that's enticed top players away from the PGA Tour in a quest to change the game. Scott and I first met when he was CEO of the NBA's Philadelphia 76ers and the NHL's New Jersey Devils. He's a disruptor at heart And since he moved over to live a year ago, he's brought that spirit to the fore. With a new live season underway, including a big tournament this month in Mexico City, I wanted to ask Scott about what makes live different, why he stepped back into the fishbowl of the sports business, and golf's allure to top leaders from the C-suite to the White House.

1:48Scott shares stories, both from the course and in the VIP area, with insights about untapped opportunities, multi-generational engagement, and the special role that sports plays in culture. So let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

2:13I'm Bob Safian. I'm here with Scott O 'Neill, CEO of Live Golf. Scott, great to see you. Bob, it's great to see you. It's been a minute. Always great to be together. Yeah. So you and I first met, you were CEO of the Philadelphia 76ers in the NBA, the New Jersey Devils, the NHL, a post with a lot of eyes on it, but also a business that was kind of grounded in local community. Yes. Then you went to Merlin, Merlin Entertainment. Attractions, amusement parks, Legoland, Madame Tussauds. 23 countries, 30 ,000 employees. good brands, family entertainment. Global portfolio, but less media attention. Yes, much less.

2:58All right. So now the past year at Live Golf, you're back in the spotlight. Global scale as CEO of arguably one of the most intriguing, sometimes controversial, certainly talked about sports businesses around. Are you having fun? I mean, you and I talked about how sort of sports is like, business is like a fishbowl and the eyes are on you. Are you happy to be back in the fishbowl? Well, I've never had this much fun in my life. Okay. I, I'm happy. I work with incredible people. I get to travel the world. The success trajectory momentum is almost incalculable what we've done in the last 14 months.

3:43And, And it's a huge mountain to climb. And I like a challenge. And this is certainly the biggest challenge I've ever had. And by the way, and I'm working for a wonderful chairman. His name is Yasser Al-Rumayan. He's also the chairman of PIF, the Public Investment Fund, the Sovereign Wealth Fund of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. And that's why I took the job. Because I was going to ask you that. Because when LiveGolf launched, it was like a grenade. Yeah. I mean, it's sort of a grenade. We came out high. This sort of disruptive challenger to the PGA Tour, throwing money around to lure players, money from Saudi Arabia, which sparked these claims about like sports washing and, you know, a country that was trying to buy respectability.

4:27And this didn't dissuade you, though. There were things about this that were appealing. I've learned, you know, I spent 30 years in this business. And the one thing I learned is just the power and influence of what we do and why we do it. You know, I was just in Milan with my wife and watching the gold medal hockey game, by the way, next to Mike Ruzzioni, if you follow hockey, okay, the captain of the 80 championship team, and Mark Messier, who was a former New York Ranger captain. That's a good scene you got there. And my wife. Okay, that was our crew. And to see Jack Hughes, who we drafted five years earlier at the Devils, score the winning goal in overtime and see a country come together at a time when the world needs a little bit of love.

5:11What a wonderful time. I was in Australia. We've had a record-breaking crowd, 115 ,000 people. It's arguably our most successful event. You know, the country effectively shuts down and we celebrate golf there. And Anthony Kim, I don't know if you know the story of Anthony Kim, but pretty remarkable. He was heralded as the next Tiger Woods, hurts his Achilles, gets a drug problem. And he's down for 12 years. He had a cardiac arrest or two, which scared him. And then he had a daughter and he said, I've got to get it back together. Pulls his life back. I hadn't picked up a club in 12 years, comes on to live two years ago.

5:44And in Adelaide, he wins. And I will tell you, it was as close to Rocky Balboa as you'll ever see in your life. But people were crying, including me. I grabbed my sunglasses really quickly on 18. His daughter runs, jumps into his arms. And it's like, it was one of those beautiful moments where you could actually feel the energy. But that moment when he talks about getting 1 % better every day and how he understands what addicts are going through and how important resilience is. And I hope to be an example, because I know I'm here for a bigger purpose. That is sports. And so sign me up for that all over the world.

6:17Anybody willing to invest in that, in this moment and opportunity, in a world that's filled with divisiveness, in a world of chaos, in a world of conflict. Well, it's one of the things that pulls us together at a time where we - It's the one common language we can understand. And what about golf? I would argue, you know, I don't come from a world of golf. I don't come from a family of golfers. And yet golf's the world's most important sport. 90 % of Fortune 500 CEOs play golf. World leaders play golf. I was in South Africa recently, a couple of weeks ago with our event there, 100 ,000 fans, biggest event in the history of the country for golf.

6:52And who's with me on Sunday? The president of the country. Who's an avid golfer? We were in Korea. We got 60 chairman of companies in a VIP room. What other environment are you pulling those people together? When you have them together, like is there a message that you're trying to deliver to them? My message is I need your help. all the best golf since Tiger Woods has been played in the U.S. 46 of the best top 47 events in the world historically have been played in the U.S. And then there's the Open Championship in the U.K. Whole rest of the world out there. And so I want to take the best players in the world to the world and grow the game.

7:27So it's a, man, I will say like never been challenged more, never worked harder, never traveled more, and never had more fun. So for folks who aren't golf fans and aren't as familiar, so what makes Live different? Yeah. You know, I mean, there does seem to be an emphasis I've seen recently on teams versus individual players. But for folks who may be familiar with PGA golf, like what's different? Well, there are several things that are different. We have teams, so you're assigned to a team. Most of the teams are regionally based. Like we have Southern Guards are a South African team. Ripper GC is an Australian team.

8:07Majestics are a UK team. Korean Golf Club is a Korean team. So it's like a Ryder Cup sort of feel to it. Yes, it is. And so we go to these countries, there's a lot of nationalism. And in South Africa, I'll tell you, like on the first tee, our players were crying. They're singing the national anthem. People are like screaming their names. And they were like so overcome. Our Aussie team, when they go to Australia, they're like, it's like U2 walking down the street. I mean, it is unbelievable, like the love and passion. So teams are definitely a unique aspect. Now there's an individual competition.

8:38I mean, there's a different business model to that too, right? There sure is. Because the captains, like the Bryson DeChambeaus, the Phil Mickelsons, the Bubba Watsons, the John Roms, the Cam Smiths, names you may know, are the captains of those teams, are the stars. And they're our business partners. So they have equity in those teams. And we're actually going to market, right? We had so much inbound interest. We're actually selling a couple of stakes and a couple of teams this year. I was with the New Jersey Nets as a marketing assistant in 1992. And I remember the Utah Jazz sold for$13 million.

9:06I went to work for Jeff Lurie in Philadelphia just after he bought the team for$188 million. And people thought he had lost his mind. To spend that much money. I think he just raised at over$6 billion. And I think the Jazz just sold for just about$2 billion. And so you start to think about, okay, well, franchise values have worth, right? There's a scarcity value. And so we believe of our 13 teams, I think we'll end up eventually go to 15 teams. there'll be a really strong asset value there. So they're the events that are part of the tour. That's right. And then they're the teams. That's right.

9:37And the league, I don't even know whether you call it a league. It's a league. It's a league. The league owns both. And you might sell pieces of the teams. Eventually teams will be owned just like the NBA or just like the NFL. But the league will also stay separate as its own business. Yes, absolutely. So it's - Did you know that when you came in? Absolutely. Like that's where we're going to go. Yes, absolutely. I mean, the value of teams is indisputable in sports. And most of our teams are profitable, which helps the investment thesis, but they're profitable small businesses. The question is, do you want to create a big business?

10:12Well, if you're Australian and you buy our Aussie team, what could you do? Could you create a media company around them? Could you create a clothing brand around them? Could you buy a golf course? Could you create an academy? Of course, of course, of course, of course, of course. and so I think there's a real uh interest and understanding and how to drive some value there but but that the teams is different our format we have what they call a shotgun start I know you're not much of a golfer yet everybody starts at the same time right you're not waiting no the reason that's an advantage for those of us who've been to go to golf events for quite so many years is you're not sure when your guys are playing and it lasts a good like 10 hours all right we've got a smaller field 57 players and they all go off at the same time and in four hours and 35 minutes you're done.

10:52So our hospitality is akin to Formula One. We consider ourselves the Formula One of golf. Elite hospitality. So now when I'm entertaining you, I'm not inviting you from 7 a.m. till 7 p.m. I'm saying, okay, from 12 to 4.30, I'd love to have you come. And so it's a little more fixed, a little more regular. Also good shorter TV windows. Yeah. I mean, it's still a long TV window compared to basketball and hockey. But quite different from the open-ended ones where you're spinning off to other networks just to try to get the coverage. Those are like the primary differences. And I guess the teams mean that you could be interested in players who are not winning the tournament because they're contributing to their team.

11:31Absolutely. And this team concept, people are like, it's crazy. I'm like, is it crazy at the Ryder Cup? Is it crazy at the Olympics? Is it crazy in college? We are not splitting atoms here, okay? I mean, I was curious Because I had read that you talked about the relationship between Live and the PGA Tour as being like competes, not competes. Complete, not compete. Complete. They've got the U.S. on lockdown and they do a wonderful job. For us, I'll take the 7.2 billion people. I'm going to take that bet. I'm going to take the 199 countries that we broadcast in outside the U.S. I'll take that bet over time.

12:12I like the growth a lot. I like where the sponsorship market's going. I like where the broadcast media market's going. And so the rivalry, I mean, I was thinking like, is it like Apple and Samsung or, you know, open AI and Anthropic? Like how do you think about it? Yeah, I mean, in my most cynical view, I'd say it was like, you know, the iPhone, with the iPhone coming in. We're different for sure, but the same. You still talk on it, take photos, take video, you know, maybe access the worldwide web. Although you're more Samsung because you're pushing global first. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. No, the global piece is, you know, Tom McKibben is one of the best players to come out of Northern Ireland ever.

12:53I said, hey, Tom, why us? He said, well, the music, I thought it was really cool. I went to your event in the UK. I absolutely fell in love with it. He goes, and my parents love, think about this. He's at the time 22 years old. My parents love the notion of me learning from John Rahm, one of the greatest players on the planet. I learn how to dress. I learn how to eat. I learn how to work out. I learn how to handle myself on the range. I learn how to handle myself in the media. I get to play with him. how about that for an education? One of the loneliest sports in the world. Now you have mentorship.

13:20Now you have a role model. Things don't matter. You said 57 players. So it's a finite group. It's a small field, yeah. You've had some players leave. You have other players who've renewed. How much do you personally get involved in that talent part of it? And the contracts can be hundreds of millions of dollars. It's a lot of costs. Yeah. I mean, the contracts are a little bit misunderstood. for whatever it's worth. It's like, we're acquiring your rights, you know? You know, so if you're Jon Rahm and you're sponsored by Callaway or you're sponsored by Mercedes or you're sponsored by Rolex, like they're paying for certain rights, which we're acquiring.

14:03And so like, it's a good headline price and it's good for the age to talk about. So the money that they would have gotten for that is now going to you and you're selling it and they don't have to worry about it. They're getting a flat fee. That's right. Now, in John's case, he has equity in the team. So he has a lot of incentive for us to keep driving revenue, which builds value in his team. So it's a bit of a cycle. But yeah, some of the deals for guys, I don't know. I think I read Taylor Swift made over a billion dollars in her tour. I read a couple of PGA Tour players did okay last year as well.

14:34So I never, I don't know. I've been in this business for so long. I've seen contracts high and low. So, you know, what we're looking for is stories and personalities. Bryson DeChambeau, I don't know if these names mean anything to you, but he's a YouTube superstar. He's got 10 million followers. I can tell you, we can go to Singapore and kids will lose their mind. And we can go to Korea or we go to Bedminster and equally crazy, crazy fans. Do athletes in golf understand the business of it more than some of the athletes in the other sports? Because they are businesses in and of themselves. Because they've had to run themselves as businesses.

15:13They are businesses. They are the brand. They are the business. Maybe they had a head start. Because now you're seeing almost, you know, I mean, we've seen everybody else catch up. But they had the best head start. I would say, like, what we ask of our players in South Africa. This woman run up to me and say, Scott. And I was like, uh-oh, what happened? And she said, my 10-year-old daughter, you know, Victor Perez, one of our players, came over during play, took his glove off, took a Sharpie out of his bag, signed it, and handed this 10-year-old girl, Bryson and Jon Rahm, 60 minutes outside of the press area signing stuff.

15:4260 minutes. We don't rope the stands away from fans. We rope them through fans. And our players understand their role. They know they have to sign more. They know they have to take selfies. They know they have to engage. This notion of managing a brand and how you think about media relationships and how you think about relationships with players. I mean, think of what Adam Silver has done at the NBA and transforming the relationships between league and player. That's what we have. I travel with these guys. I'm with them for seven months. Instead of it being adversarial. I know their caddies, their families, their children, their wives.

16:16I know what they like, and they do the same about me. Scott is all in on Liv's mission. He's attacking the opportunity with a zeal reminiscent of a Silicon Valley startup. So what makes Liv the same and different from other sports businesses? and does he feel any special pressure working for Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund? We'll talk about that more after the break. Stay with us.

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19:24Before the break, Live Golf's Scott O 'Neill talked about what makes the league different than the PGA Tour. Now we talk about how golf compares to other sports businesses, his most important metrics for success, and whether a women's lived league is coming. Let's jump back in.

19:44There was a phrase that you became associated with in Philadelphia, trust the process. Is there a trust the process part of what you're doing at Live? I mean, I know you mentioned sort of some of the younger golfers who you bring in. Like, is there a version of that? Well, I think there, also, I don't know if you remember Madison Square Garden, we had Linsanity. And I think Live Golf is Linsanity meets trust the process. But it was short-lived Linsanity, right? Yeah, yeah, but the... But I guess it had echoes, right? It had ripples. Yeah, it had echoes around the world. Yeah. And the way we use this is before the advent of social media as it is today.

20:18and we were putting out eight, nine videos a day. And people were coming from all over the world. We can drive personality-driven stories through social. That is real. And then trust the process. The essence of our Joel Embiid era, trust the process was about, look, we don't know the future. But given the information we have today, let's make the right decision, as many right decisions as we can and just keep walking forward. Because we know that light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train. I saw Bryson, you mentioned, I saw him talking about attracting new fans to golf. And he said that more people watch the NFL than play organized football.

20:55But for golf, it's the opposite. More people play than go to watch. I will say that like 30 % of our fans have never been to a golf event before. 40 % have never picked up a club. What makes a live event feel different? It's fun. It's not stuffy. We have. Which is the way. We have walk-up songs for our players. So they walk up, it's like, onto the tee now, Jon Rahm. And Jon will have picked his walk-up song, just like you found in baseball. Can I yell at him when he's putting? No, no, people are still respectful and quiet when these guys are hitting. It's not like shooting foul shots. No, no, no, no.

21:32We'll have parachuters come down. We'll have fireworks. We'll have concerts. We had, I don't know if you're into the DJ scene, but we had Dom Dalla and Fisher. We have Thomas Rhett coming to Indy this year. I mean, he's a big-time artist. So after play, there's a concert. And people are like, why would you have a concert? Well, what if we can attract new faces and people, ages, genders to the sport? And so, you know - So it makes the experience different, but it's also a marketing lure to pull people in. 60 % of our fans are under the age of 40. Like you go anywhere else, it's like, shh, here you have parents pushing strollers.

22:0823 % of our audience and fans, families. You see packs of kids roaming around. How fast is all that changing? I mean, you know, a year ago, who was coming to the events? Who's coming now? And sort of what do you think that's going to look like? I'll give you a couple stats and facts. So in South Australia, we have the event in Adelaide. Growth of girls 12 to 18 playing golf is up 212%. The golf clubs, there are eight of them in the market, all had openings, now have waiting lists. 40 % of the new members, 45 years and under. Maybe they're just a coincidence. Maybe. I don't think so. We were just in South Africa.

22:5245 % of the sports watching audience in South Africa watched our event. Double who watched the Masters there. We are creating a cultural experience. And we do that because we have a local tie with local athletes. And because we leverage social media in a different way. We've been batted around about our ratings. And I just said, we have 5 million people watch our Australia event. Sign me up. And the trust, the process part is like, and as long as that keeps moving in the right direction, we keep moving. Yes. And so revenue up 108 % last year, expenses up 8%. This year, we're on track, knock on wood.

23:28Revenue up 85%, expenses up 3%. So like how many years are we going to stack these big gains on? But listen, it's early. It's a five-year-old company. I mean, we're building a global business, changing the tire on a moving car because we're changing a lot of things on the fly. But if that doesn't pop you out of bed in the morning, it's the wrong business. So in your job, you engage with two cohorts that I have to ask you other people are intrigued about. First, I have to ask you about President Trump. He's talked about trying to partner up Live and the PGA Tour. He's hosted Live events. What's your relationship with Trump like?