Rapid Response: Slutty Vegan wants to be the next Shake Shack, with founder Pinky Cole

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1:17The vegan space is very hard. All of the vegan restaurants around us are closing. so can you imagine being at war and everybody else is dropping and it's just you and the sea all by yourself and you're like what am I next I feel like this is therapy and I like it

1:48that's Pinky Cole founder of the vegan fast food chain slutty vegan she's also the author of the books I Hope You Fail and Eat Plants, Bitch. I wanted to talk to Pinky because while others in the vegan food world may struggle, Slutty Vegan continues to grow, opening new restaurants across the U.S. this year. She also recently gifted HBCU grads in Savannah almost$9 million in entrepreneurial training and tools. If you're familiar with Pinky, you know that her energy is infectious. She's sharp, confident, and keeps it fun, which as it turns out is a key element of her business success. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

2:37I'm Bob Safian, and I'm here with Pinky Cole-Hayes, founder of Slutty Vegan. It's good to see you. I'm so happy to be here. You've been a vegan since 2014, right? You run a vegan restaurant chain. You've got a vegan book. But you're not particularly militant about veganism. Well, I am. It just depends on who's asking. So you know what's so funny? So my husband is not vegan, okay? We got three kids, and he has a cheesesteak restaurant concept. And then here I am. I'm on the honorary board of PETA. I've always been a vegetable lover. I grew up in a Rastafarian household. So I grew up eating rice and peas, legumes, beans, a lot of cabbage, a lot of greens.

3:21So like this is the nature of who I am. So unlike somebody else, when they need a piece of meat and some rice and a protein, I can really just rock out with some cabbage and be good. I've had the CEOs of Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat on this show. And when I talk to them, like they focus on like climate change and the ethics of eating meat and sometimes like how the product tastes, like it's as good or better than meat. You don't generally tend to do any of that. You've even said that Slutty Vegan isn't about the food. It's about the experience. It is. You know, I wanted to create something that could meet people where they are, right?

3:5870 % of the people that come to Slutty Vegan are not vegan at all. They are true meat eaters, right? So if I can get them to shift their mindset and try this plant-based burger, even if it is vegan comfort food and they like it, then I can start to shift their mindset and say, you know what, if it's good at Slutty Vegan, it may be good at another restaurant that sells vegan options. So while I care about the planet and I care about the ecosystem, I really want people to feel like they can be safe when they come into the realms of my business. And when they try the food, they can say, okay, this is the first step to the rest of my life.

4:34And veganism can be fun. Veganism can be cool. It can be sexy. It can be racy. And it can taste good. Like, I want people to feel that way and it'd be a pleasant surprise. That's how you get people walking through the doors. That's how you grow a$100 million brand. And that's how you get to change the narrative of what people think about this whole vegan movement that has been around for the test of time. You know, I learned in preparation for this discussion, I didn't realize that slutty vegan burgers are impossible burger patties. Is that right? For some reason, I thought you had your own plant-based burgers, but it's more how you prepare them?

5:09Yeah, so we actually use a couple of different proteins. We don't just use Impossible. We use a couple of different proteins. And it's interesting because when I first started, I did use Impossible solely. You got to remember when I started in 2018, like Impossible, what is that? It's this new big wave. Everybody's talking about it. And I'm like, yes, we got the juice. Like, don't nobody got what we got, right? But as we evolved, I realized that there were so many other great businesses in the market. So we created a space where people have options. And I'm excited about that, especially because Slutty Vegan serves as a springboard.

5:42When you think about the big boys in the vegan space, you got Slutty Vegan, you got Veggie Grill, and you got Heart House. There's not many of us, right? And I wanted to make sure that Slutty Vegan was a reflection of all of the excellence that's in the market. And that's exactly what we've been doing. So we got a whole ton of options when you come to the space. I mean, so you've built this$100 million brand, which is a terrific achievement. You have 14 locations, I think a couple more coming this year. But you're not like Chipotle, you're not everywhere. Maybe a better analogy is Shake Shack, because I know Shake Shack founder Danny Meyer is one of your investors.

6:23Is a dozen or so outlets enough or is the plan for Slutty Vegan to be everywhere or does it not need to be? I feel like this is therapy and I like it. I'm going to be my therapist this week. So, you know, it's interesting and I'm going to be totally transparent because that's the only way that I can be. The vegan space is very hard and it's very hard because I am carving out a lane that virtually doesn't exist. Like I am the blueprint. You understand what I'm saying? So like when I have a pitfall, when I have like a hiccup, when something goes wrong, like I have to look at my own model because I'm setting the tone for the next class of vegan restaurants to come behind me.

7:05So like I am like the guinea pig for so many things and that's not always fun. So when you talk about scaling and growth, I have a lot of locations that do well, right? But then there's like one or two, just like all businesses, you're like, oh, that wasn't a good idea, right? But it's not that it's because it's not a great brand, but it's location, what people are eating, how are they feeling psychologically? Are they tapped in to the movement, what's happening in the world? So before, when I didn't think about those things, I was just moving with my gut and going to find underserved spaces that didn't have vegan food and putting vegan food in these spaces.

7:42Now I realized that I got to think with my third eye. Now I got to think by way of data. This is a passion project for me, Bob. You understand what I'm saying? Like, I didn't start this to make money. I started this because I'm vegan and I wanted people to try the food that I like to eat. So now as I grow and scale and open these locations and now I'm a multimillion dollar brand with multimillion dollar bills, sometimes I'm getting sued. It depends on the day of the week, right? Now I'm like, okay, I have to make data-driven decisions in order to scale this company so that we can continue to sustain.

8:13We've already got the brand down packed. The brand is bigger than the business. Now we need to make sure that the business can stand on its own, especially because it's standing up against the Burger Kings and the McDonald's and all the other great brands that have been in business for so long. So is it hard? Absolutely. But am I up for a challenge? Yes, I'm from East Baltimore. So anytime a challenge comes my way, I'm going to make sure that I knock it down with my boots on and we're going to get it right and continue to grow. You said a few months ago that the past year has been among the most stressful of your career, which is a pretty high bar given that your first restaurant in Harlem burnt down and you lost everything, that you opened the first Slutty Vegan restaurant in the pandemic.

8:56So what happened during the last year? Like, what was so hard? You know, it's funny because the business has consistently continued to grow, right? And continues to grow. So this is not a matter of like, oh, business is not doing well. Business is booming. New opportunities, new engagements, new accomplishments. I made a Time 100 next list last year. I'm still on the covers of magazines, still getting lists. I'm a finalist for Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year. So like I'm popping, right? But then on the flip side, I have this business that I've never scaled a multimillion dollar brand before.

9:32I stepped away and I had three kids. I had a baby in 21. I had a baby in 22. And I had a baby in 23. And then I got married all at the same time. So I'm moving and shaking and doing all these things. And I stepped away from the business for a little bit. So I'm still in it, still the mascot, still doing all these things. But then it was time. We all know this as founders. sometimes you got to go back to square one. And it is the most humbling thing as a founder to ever have to do. And, you know, a lot of people say, well, Pinky, you're really honest about that. But I feel the need that I have to be honest because a lot of founders don't talk about this part.

10:08You're stepping away from the business and then coming back into the business to make sure that you continue to grow out your legacy. And that's what I'm doing in real time. And I'm the happiest I've ever been. It's the hardest it's ever been, but I got 2018 energy. And that's the energy of when I first started my company, when I was in a shared kitchen and I had 500 people standing out in line trying to get food and I didn't know what to do and it was a frenzy, but it was a beautiful frenzy. That is where I'm at right now. And, you know, somebody said something to me when I had to do some layoffs in the business last year.

10:40And the person said, if it were me, I would have never taken my hands off the wheel. Right. And it hit me like a thorn in my spine, but I needed it because now that I'm back in it, back holding it and touching it, I'll never take my hands off the wheel. And that was the greatest lesson that I've ever learned. So this is where we are. We're opening locations. I'm working on my second cookbook and it is the most beautiful, chaotic rollercoaster ride that anybody could ever be on. I mean, it's complicated scaling though, right? Because you can't control everything in any single store the way maybe you could in the early days, right?

11:14So you've got to let go, but you also have to keep your finger on the pulse and like figuring out how to do both of those things is what the trick in scaling is. Yeah. Like you got to keep going. Cause now I have kids looking up to me. I have entrepreneurs looking up to me. I have mothers looking up to me. I have women looking up to me. I have black people looking up to me. You understand what I'm saying? There's so many people that are looking up to me and expecting me to win. I cannot let them down. So I wake up every single day and my prayer, I'm like, God, let today be a good day, please. Slutty Vegan's known for a lot of things.

11:51Brash marketing, for sure. Lines around the block. Cool partnerships. Celebrity endorsements. What do you want it to be known for? I want Slutty Vegan to be known for the idea that you can do whatever the f*** you want to do. And I mean that respectfully. When I came into this space, people told me that Slutty Vegan, the name was too racy. And it was too raunchy. And it was too provocative. And kids aren't going to like it. And nobody's going to support it. And had I listened to them, I wouldn't be the brand that I am today. My message to all entrepreneurs who are starting a business, if you want to be a disruptor, you got to disrupt.

12:36I want people to read about this brand and how we took marketing to the next level. and it didn't take a lot of bells and whistles. We were just authentically ourselves. We were real in our approach and we fostered community, right? Like I'm really big on the money that I get in the business, I pour it back in the community. I make sure that I lift as I climb and I want people to remember this brand for that. This ain't about sex. Sledding vegan has nothing to do with sex. It's just a way to draw you in. But I'm helping you to reimagine food, your thinking, your spirit, how to engage with people that don't look like you.

13:09Like I'm helping people to reimagine all of those things. So this is like the most beautiful form of silent protest that provides a sense of energy around food and love that money cannot pay for. So when you think of me and when you think of Slutty Vegan and what I've created, I want you to remember that. And I want people to look at that as the blueprint and model their businesses around that. The New Yorker wrote a story about you a year ago that I went back and reread. And there was this phrase in there that said that like, she's not ideological. She's first and foremost, a saleswoman. And it was almost like damning with faint praise.

13:48Like there's not some higher mission, like almost that you're just a saleswoman. Do you lean into that? Or do you like take offense at that? Or you just move along? You know, it's interesting because I put my money where my mouth is. You know, I have a foundation called the Pinky Cole Foundation. I've paid the rents for local business owners, right? I've paid the tuition for 30 college students so that they can graduate from college. I've given out at least 800 LLCs to a graduating class of seniors. I've given $8.9 million in resources, entrepreneurial resources to a graduating class of students.

14:24I could go on and on. Opportunities providing life insurance for Black men if they make$30 ,000 or left. So when you talk about being a salesman, you could call me what you want, but I do the work. You see burgers and fries. That's just a vessel, right? But the vessel leads you to the engagement, the community, the entrepreneurship, helping to bridge the wealth gap, the education, the edification, the knowledge, the wisdom, all of that. You put that in a bowl and you stir and here you got me. And if you want to call it what you want to call it, who cares? But guess what? I get the job done. Pinky doesn't lack for confidence, does she?

14:59Sometimes I can't tell if she's overreaching or if she's pumping herself up. But what I love about her story is that she's doing things her own way, unapologetically. After the break, we'll go deeper into the lessons of her unconventional journey, including why she cried when$25 million hit her bank account. We'll be right back.

15:23Real leaders don't back down when the stakes are high. They innovate, they push forward, and then they take the stage at the Masters of Scale Summit. Join us in San Francisco, October 7th to 9th, to hear from the CEO of the New York Times, scientists using cutting-edge technology to find cures, the leader of crypto powerhouse Coinbase, a retired four-star general, and many, many more. Apply now at mastersofscale.com slash apply25. That's mastersofscale.com slash apply25.

16:24aws.amazon.com slash activate and start building. Expanding your business in the U.S. can feel like a maze. Every state has its own payroll, benefits, and compliance rules, which can pull your focus away from growth. That's why founders use Deal. Deal is the professional employer organization, or PEO, that gives you a dedicated HR expert plus Fortune 500 level benefits for your team. The National Association of PEOs says businesses can grow twice as fast if they use one. So if you're scaling, make it simple with Deal. Go to deel.com slash mos and get up to three months free. Before the break, we heard Slutty Vegan's Pinky Cole talk about how she built a$100 million brand in an untapped market.

17:16Now she talks about the responsibilities she feels as a Black woman entrepreneur, the critical lessons she learned from Shake Shack founder Danny Meyer, and why she cried when she got$25 million. Let's jump back in.

17:33You recently gave the commencement address at Savannah State University and HBCU, and you announced there that you were donating almost$9 million in entrepreneurial services to graduates in partnership with Operation Hope. So for an effort like that, like where does that idea come from? How did that turn out that way? When you have a platform, it is your responsibility to use that platform for good. So I have a platform, I have an audience. So when the opportunity came to be the commencement speaker for Savannah State University, I'm like, okay, what is it that I can do with my platform to lead these people better than I found them?

18:20And there were a couple of ideas. I was going to either donate a slutty vegan on campus or partner with some really, really great people to provide some economic resources so that they could be the best versions of themselves. And while a slutty vegan will be good on campus, I'm like, I want them to really get what they need so that they can go in the world and be great Because I know what it feels like to go in the world and still trying to figure it out. So helping them to cut out the middleman and get right to what they need so that they can jumpstart the world when a lot of people don't even have that kind of opportunity is golden.

18:57And I'm not going to stop there, right? I want to be recognized as a beacon of hope. When you see me, you know Pinky got something for you, right? And it might not be things. It's not always tangible. It's energy. It's wisdom. It's knowledge. After this interview, you're going to say, oh, this girl is crazy or like I felt her spirit and her energy. But I want people to leave better than I found them. You said that you're like sort of a celebrity by accident. And it can almost look from the outside like you've navigated all the challenges of being a Black woman in business smoothly. But it can't have been that easy.

19:32It was easy to get here. And I'm going to be honest. And my story is different from a lot of other people, right? To get here was easy. Now, to stay here is where the challenge comes in. I made a million dollars in the first three months. But how about making another$20 million and another$20 million after that and navigating getting sued and navigating being in this space and I'm not just showing up as me anymore because I have a obligation as a woman, as a black woman, to show up in a way that is a reflection of the people who look like me, right? So getting here was easy. Staying here is a little bit difficult.

20:13Scaling is super popular. It's famous that like, literally, like I flushed the toilet wrong, I'm on the news, right? So like making sure that you operate in excellence and being best in class in everything that you do is not easy, but it's so worth it because it forces you to make sure that you show up as the best version of yourself. You're an investor, Danny Meyer, He's been on the show a couple of times, Shake Shack founder. What's been valuable to you? I mean, he talks that he's learned stuff from you. He is the bomb. Danny is like a cool guy, man. Like, I can remember when I first, I'm going to be honest, when I first met Danny, I wanted to cover a Forbes.

20:53It's so bad, right? So I did the$25 million raise. Company valuation was$100 million. I'm like, oh, yeah, I know I'm getting the cover of Forbes. I was ready for it. Like, it is mine. I'm claiming it. I'm not taking no for an answer. And the editor, shout out to Diane at the time, she was just like, unfortunately, we're just not in a position to give you the cover. And I'm like, me? You don't want to give me the cover? So like, I went on a rant and I was unhappy about it. And it was a connection that Danny made for me. So it got back to Danny. And then obviously, I felt like I had to sit in front of my dad.

21:26Right. And he didn't yell at me. and he wasn't happy or he wasn't mad, but the tone was very calm and it was very peaceful. And I felt sick for like the next two days because I felt like I let him down. And what that showed me is, there is a different level of respect that I have for this man. I realized that the respect that I have for somebody that didn't raise his voice, that didn't, he wasn't irate, he was very calm and he gave me a sense of wisdom that I never got from anybody else. And that level, it was a silent wisdom. So it changed my mindset on how I interact with people when I don't get things that I want.

22:08And that probably was the biggest lesson that I learned in my life. I heard that you cried when you gave up equity in Sly Vegan. Now, were these tears of joy? Were these sadness? What was that about? What happened in that moment? Well, I was also pregnant, so I could have been very hormonal at the time. However, you know, I come from a single parent household. My father did 22 years in prison. Never in my wildest dreams could I ever imagine creating a brand of this magnitude, let alone people believing in my dream enough to want to give me that kind of money to be able to grow my brand. Because once upon a time, it's me.

22:53It's mine. It's mine. I created it. I wake up every day. I run this business, but I had to realize that 10 % of a watermelon is greater than 100 % of a grape. And if I want to be great in the world, I got to go stronger together. So when the money hit my bank account, Bob, I'll tell you the truth, 25 million hit my account and I just started sobbing. And you don't know how you're going to feel when that happens. I think that that was like a life-changing moment for me because I've never been in that situation before. Who would have thought that you'd be crying over getting money. But as a founder, figuring it out, I didn't know.

23:30And I'm still navigating. I don't know everything about business, right? Like if you would have asked me this five years ago, I'd have been like, equity, what? Safe notes, what? What do you do with that? But now it's like school. I've been able to grow in business and I've learned a lot of things. And I'm glad I'm on the other side because I get to be a testimony to a lot of other entrepreneurs who are going through the same thing as me. And so right now in this moment for you, like, what's at stake? What's at stake? I don't want to be a Netflix documentary. Not for the wrong reasons anyway. You know, listen, let me tell you, I got to be honest.

24:09All of the vegan restaurants around us are closing. So can you imagine being at war and everybody else is dropping? and it's just you in the sea all by yourself and you're like, okay, am I next? Like what I got to do to like make sure that I'm safe? So every day is uncertain. We still do a lot of business, but the biggest businesses that do a lot of business file for bankruptcy, close their doors. So the state of the vegan movement is unpredictable. So what's at stake is, is that I will not lose. Like, I will not lose. I will continue to grow. I will continue to thrive. I will continue to create opportunity for other people.

24:55And that's a big responsibility. But, you know, they say heavy is the head that wears the crown. And I'm up for the challenge. I'm up for the task. We're going to get it done. Well, thank you, Pinky. Thanks for doing this. Thank you so much.