29: Keeping The Show On The Road: Part One

0:02Hello and welcome to Mat's Trucking Great podcast. Mat Ireland hosts him once again and today I'm delighted to be joined by my good friend Steve Elsey. Steve, how the devil are you? All the better for talking to you. Well that's very kind of you to say that. So Steve we're going to have a little look back at your wonderful career in the world of transport. So how did you get started as a truck driver? Was it a family inspiration or was it something different? absolutely nothing like that I used to hang around with a bunch of ne 'er-do-wells, it wasn't really a common, it was a bunch of herberts hanging around at somebody's house and it transpired that the guy who actually owned the house who disappeared every so often was delivering boats for Shetland boats at Stanton in an old Ford D800 old car transporter around Europe mainly Denmark with new back loads and that's how I got into it.

0:59I thought, that's a good idea. Yeah. So did you accompany him or? I don't know. You know, just the idea. I was, well, I think I was probably the worst mechanic in the most of that role. Or indeed, both of the stuff like Andy Stanger at the time was I knew exactly how to do things, but I was incapable of doing it very well. Right. But I managed to speak, I mean, basically, as I have all my life, on making people laugh and getting on with people. Yeah. And I was doing nothing. I was just getting drunk, and as you do as a young man, and it just seemed like it's something. And I quite like the idea of being away from the area, you know what I mean?

1:39Yeah, yeah. You get to a bit too same-o-same-o, so that's right. There's no great desire or lust after lorries or anything else, and no desire to talk about eating gearboxes and more full of rude rangers, and I just want to get away from it. It made me fangir for a bit. Yeah, fair enough. So you went and did your test? Yeah, I did. I borrowed the money because I never had any money then. And I paid the people back, did my test, and then couldn't get a job because, you know, I look like now, but then I didn't have much of a beard. I had a fairly, very long hair. Yeah. A beard, dressed in jeans and wear my jacket constantly.

2:19Yep. And I had a very difficult job. And when I did get a job, the boat who employed me will employ me if I was starting naked and look like, yay. So where was your first driving job then? I had a bit of Western farm equipment as a tram. And it's a lot different to what it is now. I mean, it was very much a farm-based thing. And Richard, I like Richard. He was a bit of an animal. And I don't know if I'm rude about anything. I enjoyed working there, but the succession of not the best vehicles, like I said, a Tomahawk, a Tomahawk, a Tomahawk, followed by a TK Bedford, which in those days, I could sleep on the back parcel shelf.

3:02Yeah. And they were very, long enough ago, a laissez-faire added towards driver's hours. I'd work in the yard all day, mechanicing, because the best of my abilities is doing a bit of welding, and then go and deliver fire machinery at night. So it paid well. Right, okay. But eventually I just got, I don't know what it was, I just got in a way, got some spoo, but it was too easy. You know what I mean? It wasn't challenging. No, and plus the fact, the breathing I can go into, I needed to stay away from the Framlingham area, and particularly an area not far from Framlingham, to escape the attention.

3:37Fair enough. It was a long, long while ago. I used to build some motorbike club looking for a driver so I went off with the two brothers I'm not going to mention a lot of names because I'll be complimentary at times I work with them and they're just scannier 80s they had two scannier 80s and F86 and I in those days this is pre-attack logbook time and I was doing so many miles they bought me a 29088 right felt like the road in that absolutely yeah difference in earnings I can make with that you know what used to knock an hour off a journey time most places and yeah and you remember the old overdrive light used to come on when you flip the overdrive on that red light it made you sort of look a bit like the devil you squished and drive about 75 mile an hour and nowadays trucks have got far more horsepower but they're different horse car yeah they're all about lugging now and you know going on a thousand revs aren't they for economy that's it whereas older trucks I think I've put an older like 141 or 142 up against any of this modern stuff which is I've only driven one modern lorry and I just found a bit clinical so what kind of work was that doing then just general general This is what led me on to doing the work for Trans Family.

5:12I work doing general fridge work, and then what I cannot stand is being fucked about. You get the Felix Doe, you've done a long day's work, and then you've got four or five hours to try to get a box on and a box off, you know, a box off and a box off. I'm on the tilts, you know, because... And that was just about... You ended up with these piles of junk that shouldn't be allowed on the road. I got, in fact, hospitalised by one of them as well. I pulled the cord out because the side doors, the catchers are all broken. As I pulled the cord out, the door swung down and fell me. Oh, that's not good.

5:52I didn't end up in the yard in Leicester. Anyway, and so I did that and that. And then I just got so fed up with not – the work was easy. if you like driving, driving's easy isn't it? It's dealing with some Herbert at the other end who doesn't give up about anything or you or the time and the fact and this is what I mean, when the opportunity I got friendly with Sandy you know, he's a very good mate to this day and I thought, well why not and the same thing applied and my complicated life I thought it would be good for me to get away for a few months. This is why I went to 79. Late summer 79, I went off.

6:40I started with them. Right. Okay. So how many drivers did they have at the time when you started them? Because they were quite a new company then, weren't they? Yeah, they were three or four. There was Ted Warnes did the first tour. He used to run a... He was an honour driver for years, Ted Warnes. I think he works for Gravels Academy, still now. but he used to run a pub at St. James. Yeah. And then there was me. Jim Barnards did a bit as well. Yeah. And Sandy was driving a bit, and Mark, God help us, was driving a bit as well. And Ned Retz, I know we had ECL Travel 70 kind of. We had three or four Volvos.

7:25Yeah. We bought the dreadful Daff. the 2800 well it wasn't just the 2800 it was like it was a Holland spec the mountain 200 miles away and immediately started to slow down yeah I found that labour in life there was a way around it which was to keep the thing in the orange not the red all the time right always run one one gear a while and he thought he ought to be in and the thing would fly right but it still wouldn't go up a hill so it would fly but at the time quite a large cab to live in oh yeah no it's like a Harley Davidson they looked right parked up outside a pub but yeah money might have been spent on a Honda yeah so um so what was your very first tour then in 79 Camel there were a band from a from Canterbury something like that there was a there was a another band called Peter Frampton's Camel this was actual Tamil Camel and they were quasi-hippies, I suppose.

8:29Right. And that was like 79. And that was a bit of an eye-opener. I mean, I hadn't been... I've been to Europe for food times, but not for a long period of time. And that was all a bit of a... And that's the main reason I did it, was to actually, like I said, to get a Y. Yeah, yeah. That was just me. And I got myself with a muddle and I had to get myself out of a muddle. Yeah. But it helps. I've never been afraid, if you don't know, I'll ask somebody. Absolutely. And I've never been afraid to ask somebody. I don't care to make you look stupid. Yeah. You know, I've always been afraid of, mate, what does it mean, you know?

9:09Yeah. And, you know, it was interesting. Yeah. And I never found a firm for cream of Vance, which I enjoyed. Yeah. And I don't think I had to tell them the truth. I couldn't figure out how to work the phones. I think a lot of it was. So were you driving one of their Volvos, I take it, then? Yeah, I had ECL 770. Right. F10. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it was then was then. You know, today with the rigorous maintenance stands and blah-de-blah-de-blah-de-blah, but, I mean, pretty much everybody ignored that then. I mean, plus the driver had to be a bit more savvy, you know. I had a bit of, as I said, a bit of mechanical knowledge, which is a dangerous thing.

9:57But, you know, I need to adjust the brakes off, et cetera, when I need to do it. Yeah. No, but that was the first job I did. And then just came back to England just for Christmas and went on ACBC for two gigs in 19th century for Christmas. And so I went on from then because I'm a naughty thing. and I laughed, you know, I thought, it's a laugh, isn't it? And I'll do it. Yeah. And just kept rolling along. And like I said, if you get on with people. Yes. Half the battle, if you're on a tour with, well, you know what it's like. I mean, and then later, well, I don't have a gun, but, you know, later on when you're a lead driver on a massive tour, it's more like being in an agony hunt.

10:43Yeah. You know, stop looking at me in a funny way, sir, sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to throw up. so I take it that that was the first time you'd actually driven in Europe as well then was it I'd been to Holland Belgium Holland if you count Ireland yeah my kind of my roving around Ireland completely lost looking for the wrong oh yeah it's it is funny now but I tipped at this quarry and I got the address. I can't have a long bit. Honestly, it's a quite long trip, the audio. But I went to the wrong county. I went to the little grey furgy and said, where's this? And he said, ah, it's about 90 miles.

11:30Fair enough. Anyway, I think that was something to do with Fred Archer as well, that job. Oh, really? Yeah, Fred's still about. I think he probably still holds the people the money for that job as well quite possibly yes it was a long while ago absolutely but like you say you really do need some people skills to be getting on with a lot of jobs really well it's like people I mean it's not lorry driving it's not track driving track driving you're not going back and forth to Manchester or Milan all the time yeah but you have to do like when we long you know before the borders are all open we used to clear ourselves at every border you know we didn't use agents unless we you know unless you've gone to really weird places yeah and yourself so it gives you a bit of you've got to have a bit of front about you to deal with things you know the tea in the glorious days when we used to give them CDs and t-shirts to grease the palms yes but it never happened it did happen I mean it's And try to pretend things weren't like that.

12:42It's nonsense. I mean, I don't believe in sugar-coating things. I mean, there was a sound of a guy called Fingers. Oh, in Italy. Yeah. On Montanese. Yeah. When I first met him, no, I was at Frye Juice, I think. Right. And I never saw his face. I saw his fingers. The company bought the man for 10 ,000 lira. Yeah. But Montanese, I loved going over there. Yeah. because it's summertime, even though in the summertime there's no mozzies up there. No, it's nice and cool and it's just so beautiful. I mean, I can't imagine driving a truck and trailer up and down them switchbacks, especially with them coming the other way as well.

13:25You have to judge it as well. We were doing ACDC in 84 and we parked up the top for three days because of the very reason. that was cool and I and old old 141 and with a full with a P-Ion but you know scan you to lose the more weight you put on them the better they went you had to judge your approach to the hairpin by keeping the weather out who's coming the other way and occasionally if you're you know going uphill they're meant to give you room if you're going uphill rather but you know in Italy things like don't work like that no No, not usually. I mean, that was later on when Transham had the succession of bizarre old lorries.

14:15There was a firm called Podmores from Thetford. This is where this lorries came from originally. And they were a good job because they used to supply medical stuff, which weighed very little. So you pick up a till and it had three tonnes in it. Right. Brilliant. Excellent. Was that just around the UK for them, was it? Yeah, it was, yeah. And I had a glorious week up in Warrington or somewhere when they moved warehouses. Right. So I went up and I was alone and I spent the week up and back and forwards, which enable me again to trouble again while we're going on to end up. That's... LAUGHTER

14:56Yeah, but, I mean, when I worked, I said these two brothers I worked for, sorry to go back a bit, I mean, I just remember one day when they bought me that old Volvo, although I had to take a ladder that, you know, a grain style, a security ladder, you know, if you're climbing up a tower as a ladder, and they were having an inspection, and the ladder, if the ladder weren't there, they were going to fail, so I went down and threw it in the back of my fridge. Right. So I took the ladder up somewhere up near Millsborough on the coast. There's a little guy there, of course, nobody's there, so I dragged down the width, dragged the thing around, a couple of delivery notes in the end of it went off to McCain's chips and put the truck on the bay and they said yeah we'll load you for the night and went to bed and got knocked out about three hours later in the day we've had a load of jackers in Watford you know and of course log log from out the window yeah good and you get there yeah if you get there by six o 'clock tonight I said we'll give you a£20 note which at the time was like a fifth of my week's wages I suppose Crikey The old 290 I mean I know It's just I'm not I'd run in the outside lane But I was doing a lot And That old Volvo would do 80 odd mile an hour No problem So Yeah I got that off And I'm like Right that's it And then I rang up And they said Go to Christian Salverson Milton Keynes or somewhere And pick a little up For a lot of stuff Right And I went there and I went in the Nolvoi store, I'm loading the money.

16:33I will load you now. And of course, it's the lorry driver thinking, oh, yeah. Yeah.

16:42That day, I switched. Yeah. It was in the middle of wherever, I can't remember, when we came for Scarborough. Scarborough, yeah, Scarborough, yeah. Scarborough and Watford. Watford, Milton Keynes. Milton Keynes was our side. It's not a bad day. When I got the, I thought, enough's enough. And I got the off. They wouldn't tip me anyway. Yeah. The thing was, when they worked for them, I was on a basic wage. But once the truck had made 400 quid a week, I was on a percentage. Right. That week, I was on percentage by Monday night. Flipping egg, yeah. That's the week looked very nice. Yeah. That was then.

17:24Yes. but it yeah paying percentage does give people the incentive to it doesn't make you work yourself I don't object to that I mean there's enough people sitting in I couldn't do it now the idea of going into one of those regional distribution centres and handing me keys and sitting in a little car yeah no I wouldn't do it I wouldn't drive trucks that was probably I wouldn't do it no I don't blame it it's pretty soul destroying having to go into an RDC some some are better than others but yeah Not for me. I know the tolerance of people who are bullies and stuff like that. Yeah. Anyway, I was about to say, sorry, I can't tell you, so carry on.

18:06Fair enough. So just going back to your very first tour, was it just sort of Western Europe, or did you venture into Eastern Europe as well? No, just West. Just the West. Up Scandinavia, which is an eye-opener for me. No, we never went, because it was still good, still the corridors through East Germany. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. No, I didn't, no. No, so it was sort of fairly easy as such, or easier as the first one. Yeah, well, there was no, like, usually dealing with people who, other people have gone that far. I mean, because we all run on 98 Carnage, which itself is a farce. one of those cars it was Acro I'd never seen one you know and but without them you'd lose it then because you had to clear every border yeah the music this is the 88 car it's impossible to get cleared in time yeah back hmm um no I'm I enjoy the whole point is that that first I enjoyed it yeah and and that gave me a bit of a taste for doing it carrying on doing it you know Yeah.

19:22And plus the fact, this is the gorious years before mobile phones. So one shoe left. Yeah. Bit of a loose cannon sort of thing. And that's, you know, it was fact, not fact, a thing before facts. Telex. Right, because that's it. I mean, coming back from Bulgaria, they always used to go to that bloody hotel in Belgrade. Belgrade, the National Hotel in Belgrade. and there was all the sign little notes there saying, has anybody said anybody from so-and-so transfer? For God's sake, tell him I call the office. Yeah, and I mean, I remember reading the book one day, oh, that was from Bobby, who's still about nine.

20:05One of them from Gilders, something like that. And they had a note on the truck stop saying, if you see blah, blah, blah, can you get him to call the office? And I rang him up, I said, I told your man, he's in the bar, I bet we call you at night at that point. I mean, some of the things then that we, you know, it's hard to believe we got away with them. Look at that. Yeah, yeah. Because that was a time and you had to stop at each and every border, you know, before they opened the EU up. So once you left Birmingham, you could, well, you know, you could leave Lood in London or Birmingham and drive to Russia and only do one border.

20:43Yes, yeah. Unfortunately, there was a few people who shouldn't have been doing the job, ended up doing it. Right. Because they never had, you know, wandering around like day's sheep. There was a big Russian border, what the hell do I do? I haven't just driven like for every other border on the way. Yeah. Sorry, I'm going to. so I also presumed that the schedules weren't quite as hectic as what they are now purely because with the borders having to be done you had to have a bit more of a margin to a little bit yeah but the tours weren't as big you know what I mean I mean yeah for example 1970 1980 I did ACDC in Bordeaux I think yeah and we had three trucks and that's it and then 2000 which is to be honest when I stopped driving because I lost my license because of the health thing yeah the two I was only driving on ACDC then and we had 22 trucks yeah PA there was only more PA a little bit more lights but it was all video and cell I suppose all at a train you know yeah I'll explain to people how you can fill up that number of trucks.

22:07And it's difficult to explain because it doesn't make any sort of sense, really. And there was the same number of people in the audience. Yeah. I mean, it must have been quite a time as well because touring was only really sort of properly kicking off then, wasn't it? And sort of developing and evolving. And the 80s was quite a time for touring music. Well, I mean, I think the EST, they did Elton Lake and Palmer, I think, in the mid-70s. And that was like the first Artics tour, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, before I was in here and do the music business, I remember seeing Norwich Lads Club and seeing the Four Faces, The Who and somebody else, all on the same bill.

22:54Wow. And they were in a transit-sized van. Yeah. All I had was their own gear. They'd mic'd up the amps, their combo amps and the drum kit. Yeah. And they swapped it amongst themselves. It's like a different guitar. Yeah, because I remember meeting some boarder, Wishbone Ass. Right. And ML were doing them, the Hoos. Yeah. There was three of them. and but like you said I mean a big tour had a big big tour had poor trucks yeah unless it was like a one-off sort of thing when they were going into an installation for a month or something yeah because all the gear was all handball then before they got around putting everything in dollies so they could get it in and out of the truck quicker yeah and the trucks were always around the full I was fit in those days yeah it was i mean i remember judas priest to god's sake i mean i had to go and get a puncture repair and i got back they'd given up to all the trailer because i was the only one who knew everything went and it was that you know that's like a digsaur puzzle and there you go that is the last bit yeah but yeah i mean they used every bit of space obviously because they want to keep the cost down they didn't want an extra truck and yeah but i mean and then you know chronologically after i did acdc i got the motorhead for years they were like my band so to speak yeah and i have never made a penny no i get money out of it all and their management with like literally getting the blood arrows done yeah i've got old in fact i let me guys paid on one dollar one tour yeah because he said what's the matter you've got to pay for Robert's dog I said your man Doug who was the boss of their sort of promotional thing he'd done a run around us you know quite a bit of money right he then got Mick Murphy the production manager in Point Mill to pay us he says the only time we ever got any cash out of Millhead we never used spotlights no never and as much as I like Millhead the people I couldn't stand them they were such nice blokes the original ones you know Lemmy and Eddie and Phil yeah you know there was just a laugh yeah a movie guy was a laugh but then something chaotic ridiculous would happen yeah Norman was a crew and and it was just and the crew ended up you know they were really good mates you know they were very solid and Yeah.

25:46Big scrap in Hamburg at the Mark Colour once a load of punks got a break in and the band and the road crew knocked Seven Bells or whatever. A mess.

26:00You've got the levy there with the mic stand and stuff like that. It's bizarre. Is it true that they named a song or an album after you? well not necessarily album it came up with the No Sleep Till Hammersmith and I did a tour after that and it was No Sleep Till Xmas and I got a rented F10 and I wrote No Sleep Till Xmas on the Sunvisor and when the truck went back the Sunvisor was bought by the Inland Revenue Office in lower stuff at their desk. I mean, the only people actually named an album was the old Chris from Marillion. Right. He made a bootleg album when he didn't have a record of the report because my nom, the guy was Pigpen and he made a CD or album called Pigpen on Thursday.

27:05Right, okay. It was in 1990 and then Hammersfield billion yeah but which I have a copy of from my tins yeah so were we really in quite an early customer as well because they were pretty big I mean uh Martin Palmer and Barney did them quite a bit before I came along yeah and they were they were good people to work for our fish he liked to drink yeah and we'll fit it in really well with them yeah I've got so I've got a list one of my daughters you make a list once a camel ACD middle head and then you you get I mean this is really weird I did a tour with a band called Venom yeah but the support act were Metallica wow I was first ever like tour and and because they didn't have a lot of money they slept on the bus a lot so they had Nutells yeah And me and the bus driver, Mickey Deans, were fairly tight, and we'd be sitting down the front and doing whatever bus drivers and lorry drivers do on that, y 'all.

28:13And the band were hiding up the back, and I think, quite honestly, they were terrified of us. I did actually mention this Metallica 30 years later. Yeah. But there's not a glimmer of recognition. No. But that was, I mean, they, God's sake, and we look at them now, because I'm old, obviously a lot older. I'm 74 now, but I mean, James Hetfield was spotty youth then. Yes, yeah. No. And to be honest, my cast of the movie industry thought, I'll never see them again. Yeah, I did Bond and Gooby when they first, before they broke B. Yeah. The album called Stiffery Went Wet that suddenly went nuclear in America and they all became very rich overnight.

29:07And they changed. But, yeah, but I mean, I did a couple of French tours, just like middle-of-the-road French singers. Okay. Just me. And I really enjoyed them. Yeah. Harper is on the farm. I mean, I love working here. Mm-hmm. So I take it people like that would have just toured just around France internally, I presume. Yeah. Yeah, it was all France, apart from a couple of, in the French-speaking areas of Belgium. Right. It wasn't a music cast, but I mean, the French loved it, and I liked it. Yeah. I mean, there was only one English truck on it, and the two poor sods from a firm called Theatrans in Paris who had the PA in back line, they had 2 ,100 dafts.

29:54Yeah. I had an old, oh, ex. Have you ever heard of a book called Alex McKay? Yeah. Yeah, McKay's. I had one of his old left-tucker 142s. Right, yeah. I got the lights, and they always used to take them way before we got them next year. I mean, they couldn't go past them in top gear, and they're running out of gears. That was good. They were a nice bunch. I enjoyed them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it just, I mean, you know, the music just expanded and the tours started getting bigger and the halls started getting bigger and Transano got a lot bigger. But, I mean, I still like doing one track tour. There's a band called Chumbawamba.

30:44Oh, yeah, Chumbawamba, yeah. About three weeks from there, and that was hilarious. Yeah, I can imagine. I'd pick them up on a squat to start off with, and I'm in an Arctic. Yeah. It's hilarious. I loved everything. And I much prefer things like that to the really organised. Yeah, it's the bigger stuff. Well, yeah, I mean, the trouble is, they're not going to be rude about, I mean, sometimes I wonder about Americans, because the ones that are enough to have filled in a passport form, you think, well, did they get their mum to do it for them? and I've got a massive tour a massive tour we were touring 30 yard trucks and I'm looking at him and I suddenly realised you're a moron you know I'm not filming but I thought how the hell did you get your job how the hell did you get your job and I'm looking at him and I realised I can say anything I can sit there and go tree frog mumble mumble mumble it all made a sense to him Yeah.

31:53He's just where I stop talking. Sorry, I did tend to run on a bit. Yeah, that's not a problem.

32:03So, I mean, it's quite an extensive list, obviously, of people you've toured with. 50 bands, I think, who were tours rather than just one-offs and things. And that must have been a whole spectrum of music from rock to pop. I mean, the thing is, I did the Who two or three times. Yeah. And they're a band. they're a great band I mean there are two ways about it David Bowie if anybody asks me who's the best most personal friendliest David Bowie yeah he's at top of the tree excellent well I always found that was Sting he was yeah David's very friend I did a studio yeah Sting and I'm just I mean there's some of the there's a band called Spider we I knew we were in trouble and they offered us five that do the spotlights we never got pay right I'm pretty sure there's a guy called Brian Burrows in Spider who went on to be a Volkswagen racer I'm sure that's the band he was in they were they had an upbeat up old double dick a bus yeah and I'm going to turn it off because of the heating thing and me and oh you know Noddy don't you yeah yeah I was older and I think Noddy was doing anyway we're in Hammersmith and they parked their bus around there and of course the foons are filling up and Noddy and I come back from the pub as you do and with some fish and chips and we're sitting there eating these fish and chips and realise they're just staring at our fish and chips I said when's the last time you lot ate you three days ago I shot off back the tip and got a little bit of fish and chips I said, oh, brilliant, you'll do all our tours from now on.

33:54I said, in that case, I'm going to get back. You could build an old Speedway with him. I did my last thing with him. We got there at 8 o 'clock at the morning. We got offered Teaburger and Tips by the Arna and the Speedway. It's amazing. But, I mean, there's awkward, horrible people that are great musicians like Prince. I mean, they're absolutely brilliant. Yeah. That was incredible Absolutely incredible Very odd Yeah But the thing is then We used to pull sorts of strokes To help the firm out And we never got a penny I just remembered You've been on the ferry From Puckdown to Robbie Harland Yeah Many times In the early days If you said your load was under£5 ,000 You paid a half price Right Tell everybody tell her when you're under you know or three oh that's just you know lights you know bits of frying work yeah and so and they never used to put us over the library so we were different friends we're going up north and then just saying that because it was the same but I mean it didn't matter I said it was the same the permaforging yeah yeah the time goes down the middle on the boat isn't there there is yeah because we're so like they put us on one side called it was complete bollocks.

35:22They dumped the ballast. We pulled off the dog and the bow saw you went... Took your chin off. On one side. You know, no danger, nothing else. But when we got to the other side, I got met by a very stern-faced man who said, Transound Trucking, Waibridge. Every time. Damn. Bloody Waibridge, didn't they? And of course, they've got 20 odd trucks that said we're under five tonnes. 20 tons 100 tons yeah it's like 300 of course the real weight I know we did it for a laugh you know you're getting one over on the man in the uniform yeah yeah absolutely it also must have been quite a change when the when Europe opened up and all the borders went away I can't believe it I mean it's basically where you spent hours literally hours doing yeah you're going no you're slowing down and 60 plates if you feel like it.

36:18Yeah. And otherwise, steaming through. And, you know, we were talking about, let's do the corridors. Yeah. For East Germany. Because there was one from Hamburg, one from Hanover, and one from Hof, from Munich. Yeah. Then we were doing the Bob Dylan. We pulled up at the border, up at the border. It was Berlin's 750th anniversary, and the East German, you know, put one over on the West Germans. Yeah. So they both and Pompey, who was a better support, and Roger McGuin from the Byrds. So we were doing them in Munich. And we got to the, you know, just normal again. And there was a bloop there from Beast Berlin, head of police, and he was very important, the amount of gold hanging on his shoulders and that.