5: Maybe Just Leave Them As Mirrors

10:12Mat Ireland:Yeah, I don't know.

10:13Squeaky:Yeah, not very easy. And again, Chris Bradford from Across the Water, he reached out and I was chatting with him about them. Now, he's actually tried virtually all the systems out there, I believe, because as far as I know, Scania are the only ones now without them, but they are developing them. There has been photographs of the trucks on trial in, I think, Sweden with their version, so that will come out soon-ish. But Chris was saying...

10:38Jim:They'll do a V8 version.

10:39Squeaky:Yeah, you'll have loud mirror cam

10:43Jim:Mirror cam And a side pipe Exactly

10:48Squeaky:Do we know why?

10:50Mat Ireland:Do we know why Scania decided to leave it so long? I don't, to be honest

10:56Squeaky:Perhaps they were just sort of watching how things develop Or perhaps they've been developing it for a long time I don't know Is the honest answer Because Volvo did take quite a while Because I believe looking at my Facebook memories the other day, the Merc system is at least seven years old now. Yeah, yeah.

11:13Jim:It has been around for quite a while.

11:15Squeaky:I've used the Merc. The Merc one was the first one I ever used. I thought it was pretty good. I've used the DAF one a fair bit. And I've only used the Volvo one with a, yeah, with a solo tractor unit, which was left-hand drive, on a shortish run during the day. So I can't really judge that one too much. Again, going back to Chris, he's, he had a week I think with a Volvo and with the MAN system and he said that to him the Volvo system is better but for his line of work they're not ideal and he came up with a brilliant analogy which I hope he doesn't mind me using is it's like having a jumbo jet in a helicopter you you could fly from the UK to America in a helicopter but you'd take a jumbo jet wouldn't you because it's far far quicker but you also wouldn't want to land a jumbo jet on a helipad you know they're They're two different things doing the same sort of job as such.

12:11Squeaky:And again, a lot of the feedback comes back to farm work and building sites because obviously you can move your head with a mirror and see stuff without having to move the truck, can't you? Whereas with the cab, obviously you can't.

12:28Mat Ireland:And again, that's an adaptation that I found myself doing. when i first got this you know through muscle memory and things like that you'd be driving along and i would physically turn my head to look out of the window to look at the mirror yeah yeah and obviously it's not there's there is no and so then i would have to turn back slightly to look to look at the actual monitor yeah and things like that like you know if you look in a normal mirror and you you sort of know that there's something down there or you know a car or or on a building so it could be a skip or something you know that it's there so you literally just move your body forward and lean forward yeah and then it comes into view doesn't it but you you don't get that with mirror cam because it you know no matter you can stand on your head or do cat wheels in the cab it's not going to change what what's being shown from that from that from that picture and that takes some getting used to that does take some getting used too yeah interestingly today i spoke to uh another a driver from our place um and i asked him if i could tell this story i won't say his name but he said yeah it's fine he'd been driving about four or five years he's worked for the same company as me and he works that's the only company he's he's ever worked for um and when he passed his test he was put into a mercedes with mirror cam

13:45Squeaky:straight from his test straight from straight from his test straight into a into a into a

13:51Mat Ireland:Merck with mirror cam yeah he's never never driven other than doing his test he's never driven another truck with mirrors right okay all he knows is mirror cams right he's getting a new truck come in in the next couple of months brand new but it's gonna have mirrors it's having mirrors right okay I won't go into why yeah you know and all that because it's obviously company stuff but he's going to have mirrors and so the question and he feels nervous about it he feels a little

14:21Squeaky:bit not you know because all he knows is mirror cam yes well that's the point i raised before wasn't it we're gonna we assume we'll probably have a generation of drivers like like him who have just who only know mirror cam and don't actually know mirrors i mean i yeah i don't i don't think mirrors will get phased out fully um because i think they'll just be the demand again because of driver's eyesight. I do think, however, technology will advance. I mean, if you told me 20 years ago, I'd be sat here recording an internet radio show as such, which is what a podcast is, isn't it, on my computer with people, I would have laughed and said, well, you ought to.

15:01Squeaky:And you think 20 years ago we didn't have smartphones and stuff like that, and now where we're at. So I dare say the technology will improve, that you'll be able to focus that screen for the individual's needs. It seems to stand to reason. I could be wrong, obviously, but I think it probably will because the demand will be there, then people will have to look into it as such.

15:24Jim:I think the necessity will be there because of people's eyesight. I mean, I was in one today and even this morning, I'm feeling a bit anxious about getting into it with the camera monitoring system. Even just hooking up a trailer, I'm all over the place with it. I just couldn't settle. I've had a blinding headache all day because I'm focusing on the monitor and then I'm focusing too long on the monitor and I'm catching something up and I might have changed lane at the last minute. It just wasn't for me, really.

15:55Squeaky:But then how much time have you spent in one, Jim?

15:58Jim:Well, I drove the DAF system for a couple of days in the summer. That wasn't too bad at all. A nice big wide open loading base and stuff. And I had Vinny's one before Christmas, which was, you know, it was okay.

16:15Mat Ireland:Yeah.

16:15Jim:But today, I'll just feel, I've been doing it a long time, Matt, you know. Yeah, yeah. I just feel with anxiety, you know, someone else's truck as well. Yes. And I noticed as well that, you know, unfortunately the driver had missed the pin, I think, as well, caused some damage. Not me. But I just, just that first, you know, initial, until I got on the motorway, I'm in the inside lane and catching something up. Now, I'm looking at the two lines. I've never been taught any of this. No one's given, I hope that, what's his name? I forget that. Martin, isn't it? Martin Tomlin. Yeah, Martin Tomlin. Hopefully, my time at Warwick will come up there and show me how to use it properly because I'm only getting advice from Squeaky and other drivers about how to move the buttons and where to set it up.

16:56Jim:Well, that's it.

16:57Mat Ireland:Just like, it's so,

16:59Jim:honestly, mate, I was like proper, it sounded like a bit of a, but I just, I just couldn't sit in it and drive it. like any other truck with a mirror i get in and drive it yeah but that's the key they're being

17:10Squeaky:also being shown and told how to to adjust things and do it big point yeah it's probably the vast majority of hauliers don't bother with because they probably haven't been told and they haven't got the time or the experience you know you need someone who knows you need someone from the dealership really to come and point it out and but then that's going to cost money isn't it and so

17:29Jim:on and so forth so i mean it's kind of could be down yeah that's it i mean it's kind of like you

17:33Squeaky:You know, because you're a photographer. It's like me handing you a random DSLR camera that's completely out of focus. You don't know what any of the buttons are and say, right, this wedding needs to be photographed. And now, what do you do? What do I do? Absolutely, mate.

17:48Jim:You make an interesting thing about wedding and photography, mate. I mean, Volvo hasn't really published their what exactly, what monitors they use, et cetera. But what I have found out on, I'm just trying to get it up here on my iPad. uh what i found out that you know they do about the field of view and they use a cmos sensor typically a 2.1 megapixel camera i mean come on we're a long way from that now aren't we i mean look at the iphone's we've got 48 megapixel front and back rear you know i know that's okay if you're going to put something on the side of a building or the side of a bus yeah even even even the resolution of the actual monitor itself it's 1920 by 1080 which is just high definition now we can 2440 is like 2k?

18:33Jim:Is it a 4k? Why are people like Volvo, MAN, Renault, whoever, Mercedes going to people like Sony or Nikon or Canon? Why are they not going to them for that? Or Zeiss or Leica? Why are they not going to people with the high-end lenses that produce high-end lenses and sensors and make fabulous monitors? Even monitors you could go with, I don't know, there's some fantastic people make monitors out there I can't think of one off the top of my head why are they not in here to give us that crisp of course the refresh rate absolutely 60 hertz I think it run out because of the weather you know with that refresh rate why are they not being installed in these vehicles why are they going with I think off the shelf maybe I don't know I don't want to get myself into trouble but stuff from you know China, Japan, wherever why are they not going with I mean I know China or Japan or Sony and stuff like that I get it but why are they not getting that high-end glass that I would use for wedding photography because if I if I took if I had images from that 2.1 megapixel camera and looking at that I wouldn't I wouldn't get that detail needed to present to a bride and groom or whatever I'm photographing yeah or videoing you look at I mean even in I mean we've all got drones I mean the drone photography is just unbelievable why is that not being put into these vehicles yeah that's a good point especially if you think

20:05Mat Ireland:about like the distance how we spoke earlier on about the distance how you said about a live video and things and i was saying you know the monitor's there right now the camera's right next to i can put my drone up 100 foot in the air and look down and have a crystal clear 4k image yeah there's there's wirelessly being sent yeah and moving yeah and moving yeah yeah that's true you don't get that you don't get that with ease at the end of the day it's a business in it all right this is a product that these manufacturers want to put on these vehicles because they can

20:39Squeaky:charge you more money for them um yeah i guess so but then also if you're less like i don't know what the difference is between replacing a camera system and an actual mirror. Because if mirrors are more likely to get damaged and you're going to go through more of them than the actual... Because then cameras will take a fair bit of stick if they do get hit. Yeah, they're not as vulnerable where they are positioned, don't get me wrong. But it costs... I was going to say, I've also had this argument with my older brother as well. There will be a saving on fuel. I know it will be probably negligible, but it stands to reason the size of a mirror compared with that little stork poking out, it's going to create less drag, isn't it?

21:20Squeaky:It's just got to. But it's probably not going to make enough of a difference to really show, I wouldn't have thought.

21:25Mat Ireland:No, you'd have to own that truck for about 100 years before you saw any sort of different, wouldn't you?

21:30Jim:I was going to say, with that as well, you'd have to have the same trailer, you'd have to have the same sort of terrain, the same load, the same tyres, the same fuel. I mean, some fuels burn different than others.

21:41Squeaky:Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. It's just like, oh, I don't know.

21:45Jim:Yeah. Just something that I didn't think need to do. But hopefully Mr. Tomlinson, if he's listening, will prove me wrong. But I've had a terrible day in it. Hated every minute of it. I couldn't wait to get back in my normal version 5. I was saying earlier on the CB, I felt sick all afternoon. Because I actually bought a£140 pair, the cheapest pair, very Focals from Specsavers, right? Just because I was going to go on this thing with Volvo. and you know my lorry was in dog so i jumped into matey's truck and i thought these were going to help they didn't i just found myself going to my normal reading glasses especially when i'm reversing on the bay the right hand side of thought was straight i'm all on the piss if you don't mind me saying yeah just like you these things could be like a 30 odd year old class one driver like me look like a rank amateur and i'm not yeah you know i'm i'm a i'm some kind of

22:40Mat Ireland:Can we just point out as well that Jim's got a little bit of a sore throat because it actually sounded there like he was about to burst into tears

22:48Squeaky:and say, I am weak.

22:53Mat Ireland:I've been driving a long time. Leave me alone.

22:58Jim:You feel. Sorry, yeah, I did. I thought he was doing it. Leave me alone. I've been doing it for years.

23:09Mat Ireland:It sounded like Volvo were ganging up on you and telling you how rubbish driver you are.

23:18Squeaky:I would say coupling up, though, can... It's very different, I think is the way I put it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you have to take... I think, I guess with yourself, Squeaky, because you're doing it all the time with it, whereas I only jump in now and again to one, I just take a lot longer to get underneath a trailer just because it's a bit more difficult but i suppose once you're used to it it's probably a

23:39Mat Ireland:bit easier no um yeah yeah it's a little bit easier but it's i dread it i absolutely dread it and i'll tell you why so obviously harrison solway the company that i work for celebrated their 25th anniversary and as a part of that anniversary the boss decided that he was going to buy two anniversary trucks yeah and so he bought mine and a guy called mike scott a friend of mine um and they're both identical and he's put all light bars all over them low bars spotlights you know all the lights around the back along along the wind kit with all bars and red lights and it looks fantastic absolutely brilliant so week two or three of having this truck i'm trying back underneath a trailer the trailer's been left it by it dropped by what i now know is had been dropped by a scanner it being left a little bit too high so i'm backing underneath this trailer and i'm pumping my air up as much as i can i'm pushing it back pushing it back and i'm watching in the mirror cam in the screen and ordinarily when you're watching when you're coupling up to a trailer in your mirror as you're lifting the air up you wait to see the trailer rise don't you or you wait to see the trailer shift and you think right that's moved over the pins moved over into the jaws i know i'm lined up in you go in this you can't see that trailer move yeah it doesn't it's too it's so hard to explain to somebody who hasn't ever used it but you can't see it move or you might just see it move anyway the pin went straight over the top of the fifth wheel and i watched it go over the top of the fifth wheel and i hit the hit the brake as hard as i could and come to a stop but just as i came to a stop the curtain buckle on the trailer touched the light bar on the back of my wind kit yeah and it's put and it's put like maybe a 50 piece size dent in my brand spanking new line i'm just thinking 15 years i've been driving I've never overshot a pin before I spend a week or two in this and I've done it

26:01Jim:I think there's a case there for anyone that's new at doing this when you get up to it just get yourself out of the cab and have a look make sure double check I did this morning

26:14Mat Ireland:every time I couple up to a trailer now I might get out of this cab I get out at least once sometimes I get out two three times getting back underneath and having a lot.

26:24Squeaky:Yeah. I'm petrified of it coming through the back of the cab. So what are they like at night? Because you've got the Volvo system, which has – does it actually have a separate night mode, or is it just –

26:38Mat Ireland:Yeah. Yeah. So on the driver's side monitor, there are a series of buttons across the bottom of the actual monitor, one of which is a heated lens, so it'll heat the lens up to try and prevent, obviously, from when it's raining. And the other one is a night and day mode. And so next to the lens, if you look at the actual camera arm, next to the lens, there's a little strip, and four red LED lights will come on when you put that on. So I must admit, it is a hell of a lot better than the Mercedes mirror cam. Yeah. But we shouldn't really be comparing mirror cam to mirror cam. we should be comparing mirror cam to traditional mirrors um so the thing is with traditional

27:25Squeaky:mirrors if again like going back to where craig craig is in a dark in a dark place with no light mirrors you can't see anything can you let's and no and people just i don't know if they not say forget that but that you know that this is where your volvo system will be better because you will have better vision at night yeah because people who say they're crap at night yes but

27:48Jim:mirrors are rubbish at night as well they're not yeah you know yeah so but the the iso the iso squid the iso at night uh obviously that would be brought into it like a video image it would make it extremely grainy as well it wouldn't give you that crisp pin sharp however you might get that crisp pin shot if you've got your maybe got your high uh bit um your fog lights on in your indicators flowing you know clashing every second to give you that idea you get that crisp sharp you wouldn't get that because the iso probably at 3200 6400 or whatever matt you know about photography you know how the how sensors work they work on this iso and the iso even in daytime is probably only at 400 when it should be at 100 yeah yeah you know to give you that image sorry squeaky i just want yeah no that's all right i i think i think i think if if we i've met craig at truck shows and stuff and perhaps if we was to go there with the truck with mirror with traditional mirrors

28:48Squeaky:just to compare it as well see how we would have got on yeah i would say i would say if you've got night mode like squeaky does with his volvo you're going to do in a dark area when you're reversing you'll do a better job with the volvo mirror cam than what you do with traditional mirrors

29:05Jim:personally i i i think i think no one that you you you because which side straight because of the natural convex of the mirror 120 degrees it's not like the mirror you see what you see in the mirror there's no bend there's no no um sort of reflection in the lens at all you're looking at normal but if you look in a normal on the mirror cam it has that not focal aperture doesn't it it's gonna you can't anybody can reverse straight has been driving these mirror cam vehicles for a long time and used to the how which which side straight whether it near side or offside i mean stay on the offside back in the way to those bracknell i did look like a rank amateur but the near side was straight so it's just i i don't know i want to like it i want to love it i love technology i love gizmos i love photography i love video i would say though that the old the

30:01Squeaky:older daft mirrors seem to do that as well you used to park in a daft and it's just like right I seem nice and straight that side. Then you look at the other side, it's like, wait a minute, I don't know what, it didn't seem to be so much with other trucks, but mostly would have been, I think, the 106s and 105s, I think. But yeah, you seem to have one side straight and one not. It was odd.

30:24Mat Ireland:I think that's probably just your driving, Matt.

30:27Squeaky:I was just about to add that caveat and say, no, it wasn't. I've got years of experience, it's not me. Let's get in there first.

30:35Jim:We're on the old Russian potato water.

30:41Mat Ireland:Oh, dear. Yeah. So the night mode, it is a good feature to have, I must admit. That is a good feature to have in comparison to not having it on other mirror cams. But it only does work when you are in a pitch black area. Yeah. If you're going down the motorway, for example, and there's no street lighting.

30:59Squeaky:Yeah.

31:00Mat Ireland:It is just a dark motorway. you've got cars coming up behind you cars coming towards you if you've got it on then all it tends to do is just put an orange sort of haze across the screen because every now and then you're getting car lights coming up that would naturally light the road up and stuff anyway are you with me so yeah you then are almost distracted by these two screens that are in your face in the cab changing colour.

31:29Squeaky:Yeah.

31:29Jim:So, you know, it's a distraction in my mind. I noticed it this morning. I put night mode on this morning when I left here. And the cars were coming. I was driving through the northern lights, all the green haze. And again, it's not crystal sharp. I mean, there is one thing, Squeaky, that you do need to mention is when you're laying in bed at night and you've got mirror cam. Or, sorry, the camera monitoring system. What happens at night?

31:55Mat Ireland:What happens at night, Squeak?

31:57Squeaky:So one of Volvo's selling points of having the camera monitoring system

32:02Mat Ireland:is that you can turn it on on a night time so that you can see what's going on around you and things like that. So that works great if you're parked somewhere where there's lighting outside. So tonight I'm parked underneath an actual lamppost so everything's all lit up. if it's pitch black outside and there's no lighting at all and i'm laid in bed and i hit the button to put the monitoring system on the the camera's light the the monitors come on in the cab you can't see a thing you can't see a thing because there's no option to turn the night mode on right when the engine isn't running right okay so it's almost pointless yeah so what's if you know how often are you packed up in a perfectly little perrier and you know.

32:58Jim:Yeah, you know, if you also, you say in Squeak as well that you're laying in bed and you think, oh, it's about half past two in the morning, I'm quite partial to a wine gum and you thought, I just hit a switch and you just, maybe just a switch and all of a sudden the cab is illuminated by the monitors.

33:17Mat Ireland:Yeah, yeah. What's all that? And then you've got to fart about trying to turn them off. You can't turn them off, you've just got to wait for. 40 seconds or whatever it is for them to go off on their own. Do you want some of this black tape that I got?

33:28Jim:We'll soon sort that out.

33:30Mat Ireland:Yeah, so for example, in my Volvo, I've got the controls, the bunk controls. And so you can push any of those buttons to illuminate the tiny little LED display to see what time it is or if you want to put a window down because you're warm or up or put the night heater on or off, whatever. it doesn't matter which button you push out of those four buttons that are on that control system it doesn't matter which one you push as soon as you push it the mirror cams instantly come on so it can be two o 'clock in the morning you're fast you're fast asleep and you think oh it's cold i'll just push that button turn the night heater on next thing the whole cab's lit up it's

34:12Jim:like blackpool illuminations that's pretty poor isn't it that's a mental yeah yeah a bit odd

34:24Squeaky:this episode of Matt's Trucking Great podcast is proudly brought to you by Bradford Transport if you're requiring transport from Ireland to the UK and vice versa please get in contact with Chris at Bradford Transport I think really across the board most the main concern other than focus in is again recognizing the speed of an overtaken vehicle seems to be pretty universal as a concern i was just having a quick look because i posed the question on the facebook group and uh it's kind of like say sort of split 50 50 really i mean david beercroft who's from essex i mean he's had an xg for three years biggest problem is in the rain now i've had very little problems with the daff in the rain i went to chessfield a couple of weeks ago and it was tipping it down all the way there and all the way back and i was about half an hour from my delivery point and i did get a drop on the lens uh which the heat in and the wind kind of moved it and it smudged it a little bit but in the end i could still see i could still see enough that it wasn't a real problem um but i know other people that have had more of an issue but most of the time when i've been in the rain i haven't really had a problem personally and then we've got josh Chokey, he uses the FH Aero, same as you, Squeaky.

35:48Squeaky:And personally, he thinks they're brilliant. And even when they take new drivers out for an assessment, they're instantly dismayed by the mirror cam. But once he walks them through, they're quite amazed. Again, the downside is each time a shutdown start, you have to make sure the length setting is to set to two because Volvo being switched has longer lengths. So it automatically sets it to three. So if you're turning, the view will pan out to the length and you'll completely lose the rear end. I don't know if you're aware of that. Who knew that?

36:12Jim:I had no idea of that. Well, mine doesn't do that.

36:14Mat Ireland:mine stays set so my argument there would i think that perhaps what happens there i could be wrong but it might remember it down to whose tachographs in right so when you set profile couldn't it yeah so once you've set that up it might be a profile saying yeah but mine doesn't do that i've set mine up to to i know exactly what he's talking about you can change the setting so how far the camera pans out yeah um i've set mine mine's mine's perfect in that that respect it stays the same all the time it doesn't change right okay i had no idea if mine were today i had no idea

36:50Jim:yeah literally you know with the radar system at the side that does help obviously you put the

36:56Squeaky:indicator on it and go donk donk or whatever it's there yes um but yeah i didn't enjoy my experience

37:02Jim:i want to though that's the thing i want to you're an optimist that's what i do you're an optimist that's what yeah i am yeah i'm a volvo purist you know i am oh yeah absolutely yeah right from the f10 days yeah oh i want you're talking of f10s with mirror cam no can you imagine my if you imagine my dad would the language he'd use it'd be unbelievable i wouldn't broadcast it on here quite colorful wouldn't it it'd be colorful wouldn't it yeah i mean uh yeah darren lloyd

37:30Squeaky:He's a big fan, works for MRCT, loves his mirror cams. Frank Crowley, however, because of our line of work, concrete and quarries, just not suitable. I think he's in Ireland, Frank. He's down the south of Ireland, West Cork, far too many sites and farmer's yards where we need a way bigger constantly variable field of view. Again, we've already discussed that, but you can't just sort of turn your head around, can you, as such, and see in that mirror. Simon Hill, he enjoys them. So, yeah, and Philip Gormanly, he's only really driven them solo to dealerships and whatnot but he's not a fan at all so um and he's been he was delivering delivering them so i mean i mean again that's just from the facebook group it's very mixed sort of bag um opinion wise really i think what about what sorry sorry

38:20Mat Ireland:i've also got a couple of comments from what we put out on to uh tiktok i'll just read a couple of these uh we've got uh dazzle that said give mirror cams a chance uh they're getting better all the time i think he also at some point i'm trying to read these live um he's also asked a second the second question about electric trucks but he said it's like digicards and auto gearboxes nobody liked or wanted them when they first came about there's the gearbox but now the vast majority

38:53Squeaky:with it. People wouldn't go back. But why are we... We shouldn't be comparing... We're not comparing the cameras to the gearboxes. It's just the headspace. You're comparing... It's the change and the mental attitude towards it. It's because people do not want to change. I think that's what people are saying, especially Dazzle. Yeah.

39:16Mat Ireland:If we were to take a poll right now out of just us three in here, I want to like this technology. I want it to work. You're the same as Jim. And Jim's the same. That's not us going...

39:30Jim:It can be better, can't it? It can be better.

39:34Squeaky:It can be better. And it will improve with time. I believe.

39:40Mat Ireland:Let's have a look at this. A guy here called Sean on Tour who says, I had an XG with mirror cams. It took about a week to get used to them. And I enjoyed them. until it rained. Yeah.

39:58Jim:Let me read this one. If you look at some of the stuff that the truck people have put out as videos as well, they're all very well managed, aren't they? They're very corporate. They're not really real time. You're not... And also, they're talking about the safety aspect. I mean, why are some companies, I mean, even our company, are going to get some fleet of new vehicles? Why have they gone back to mirrors? Why are they going, oh, we want mirrors? I know these trucks have got great safety NCAP rating. I don't doubt it. I mean, they're fantastic. They're tested. But what about the little bumps?

40:40Jim:What about the little nicks? What about the old, you know, what about the little, oh, I didn't see you there, mate, and all this? They're not recorded NCAP, are they? No. You know, perhaps like people like Kalina, Fowler, Welch, I mean, they're probably the same company. Great Bear, same company. Yeah, they are. Sorry, they are, aren't they? But I'm trying to think of some others. Why are these people... There's not many left, is there? No, there isn't. No, I was trying to think. Why do you see more and more of them with actual mirrors? And they've got massive buying power. And the fuel saving that they'd get were better than who I'm working for.

41:14Squeaky:Oh, definitely. I mean, is it a case of because of the age and driving population, they struggle to get drivers to actually drive them?

41:22Mat Ireland:Because if I don't think no, I would have said that people like Kalina, Stobarts, whatever you want to be called this week. I think that their age range of drivers will be quite young because a lot of young drivers that come into the industry go to them first because they can't get tramping jobs and stuff. So they just go and do distribution work and day work and agency work and things like that, don't they? So I would argue that most of their drivers are probably young drivers that are driving for Kalina, Stobart or whatever they're called this week. I think that potentially it's a cost thing.

42:00Mat Ireland:So A, the more expensive to have fitted. B, the more expensive to replace. and so the likes of Staubach, can you imagine, I bet they go through loads of wing mirrors and bits and bobs and front bumpers because they've got so many vehicles and so many drivers in and out. Yeah, so in the long run, what they would save on fuel

42:24Squeaky:isn't worth the cost of having to replace, I don't know,

42:28Mat Ireland:say 1 ,000 mirror cams a year, you know? I would imagine. Yeah, yeah.

42:33Squeaky:but i'm not sure yeah it'd be interesting to find out if someone does know sort of uh maybe an average age range of sort of these large companies because just thinking if the other year the average age of a truck driver is 56 and i dare say it'll be up to about 57 now throughout the uk if not older so um who knows but is that taken into consideration with these manufacturers

42:56Mat Ireland:when they're pumping these out that actually eyesight of somebody who of the average age of 57 yeah do you know what i'm saying is that taking into consideration or is that is it just a case of no these these are the best things since sliced bread so you lot will fall into place you will you will conform and you will like them possibly i mean i mean just just one thing last thing to

43:19Squeaky:consider as such um being as i'm no expert on cars especially new cars is the technology moved into

43:26Jim:cars because i'm sure i've seen yeah i think some owdives with them so presumably if the cars have

43:33Squeaky:got them uh and the and the truck manufacturers like volvo are making cars and trucks it's going to migrate across the system isn't it if you see what i have seen i mean i have seen them in cars

43:43Mat Ireland:yeah i have seen cars with them i just they're just pointless mate are they do you really need

43:48Squeaky:that on a car what are you saving on a car really well yeah exactly i don't know i'll be interesting to hear if anyone's driven a car with like a mirror cam system i'll be interested to see what they say and what their thoughts are on them because i i've noticed them about now and again especially around where i am there's not that many because we don't have much modern technology

44:07Mat Ireland:around here i did um i'll just read two more comments out there yeah that we've got from here on on the old tiktok um so we've got joshan who says i've only used mirror cameras for one day on a one-year-old aero my honest answer is i love them wow yeah i thought it was going to take me the whole day to adjust in using them but once i figured out the lines and options that you can have with them like the night mode and such i felt comfortable my current job is using a triaxle rear steer blower trailer delivering animal feed now when i was in the aero i had a fridge box on and adjusted quickly to the cameras.

44:49Mat Ireland:But I have had my reservations about cameras on the animal feed. Yeah. Blimey, I didn't realise how long this comment was. I know. He's a big boy, though. He's got a lot to say. We're up and down narrow lanes using unstable rows, blah, blah, blah. 80 % of my time. My worry is if I had cameras... Sorry. My worry, if I had cams, would be currently my mirrors are a good gauge if I can fit down lanes or through the gap. And I feel like I would be hesitant about doing so with mirror cams.

45:25Squeaky:Yeah. Like I said previously, isn't it, because we made Neil, who designed the iDent, he said, you don't realise that they're like cat's whiskers, aren't they, mirrors? You can gauge yourself a lot. Definitely a lot easier than what you can with a mirror cam.

45:38Jim:Especially when it slams into the passenger window, when you're going up to Camax, I went up the other way, by the way, Mick. Matt yeah it's a bit tight going up there it can be mate yeah I just want to say one thing about it

45:54Mat Ireland:I'll talk about my photography stuff

45:57Jim:on my camera most cameras they have a little wheel behind the viewfinder called a diopter now that diopter will make you use a camera so you don't have to wear physical eyeglasses like I'm doing now and I can fine tune it in I just think if Sony could do that with the sensor and whatever, why can't they put a little wheel underneath whatever one you needed just to fine-tune it?

46:24Squeaky:It wouldn't take much. That's what I'm saying. It wouldn't take much. I think that technology will arrive. I think it will.

46:32Mat Ireland:So, well, I think... I think that you're assuming that these manufacturers want that.

46:39Jim:Oh, that's true.

46:40Mat Ireland:They want to make these as cheap as possible, but charge as much as possible and maximise profits because they are a business.

46:50Squeaky:But if nobody buys them, they aren't going to sell them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Volvo will offer mirrors only if you order the ADR spec, because if you're going to, I think it's presumably so you can isolate the vehicle for ADR, so therefore it's going to isolate the camera, so that's why they offer mirrors. so if there's still always going to be an option for mirrors and people aren't going to buy them because their drivers physically can't drive them then it's going to be sort of biopower dictates

47:20Mat Ireland:that the technology advances well yeah i see your argument there but as a counter argument i would say that they're still going to have to offer mirrors traditional mirrors because there are certain roles that they know that they're going to require traditional mirrors yeah but it's not it's not the drivers that they're selling them to is it it's an operator definitely not but

47:42Squeaky:if an operator's got 10 drivers saying i can't drive that truck i'm gonna have to go home and they can't get that load out something's gonna have to be done isn't it that's not my experience um yeah it's for my map no i i know i i know of several people who've just had to refuse to drive

48:03Jim:of it because they physically can't so yeah and that's where the personal place sent home because

48:08Mat Ireland:he wouldn't drive it without yeah yeah yeah but it's better than the crash i've had the same i've had the same i've had the same with uh the whole the old mercedes stuff i've always said to my planners you know don't put you know when my truck's been in or whatever and i getting work done it's like oh you'll have to drive that mercedes and i kick up a stink oh i hate it i don't like it i don't want to drive it they're horrible you know and yet they still buy them because it's not it's not my money is it and they just the these companies just assume that you'll just fall into line and you'll just you'll you will just learn to drive with them yeah you know no one's i can stand till i'm blue in the face waving jumping up and down saying the terrible the horrible they don't work that you know they're this they're that i can't judge this it's unsafe when I'm trying to change lanes.

49:00Mat Ireland:But if the operator who's spending his money or her money on buying them trucks, if they like the look of them, if Volvo or DAF or MAN have convinced them, yeah, but across 10 trucks over a period of five years, you'll make a saving of£250 ,000 on fuel. That's all they do. They work on numbers and figures and stuff. What I say as a grumpy, overweight trucker is irrelevant.

49:30Jim:Exactly. I think I'm in your camp there, Squeak. True. But I actually think if the company I work for, Gates, bought a 780 XXL with all the bells and whistles, and he said, oh, Jim, it's got mirror cam, I think I'd drive it.

49:46Squeaky:You'd get used to it, wouldn't you?

49:47Jim:I would get used to it very quickly.

49:50Mat Ireland:You've changed your mind.

49:51Squeaky:You've changed your tune from earlier. I know, I know. What a turn, Co. Because I'm a bit of a tart.

49:57Mat Ireland:That's only in case someone might be listening. Exactly. That's all that is.

50:03Jim:We need another conversation if you are listening, by the way.

50:08Squeaky:Right, well, I think we've done Mirror Cam to death now. I wonder if anyone's actually still listening at this point. Yeah, I agree. Because we've not got a huge amount of time left, but it's one other subject that was raised to me by my mate Eddie, who works for Normans, is the sort of rise. I don't think it's a great rise, but the rise in EV charging points for trucks replacing parking, I think, from speaking to somebody else, I think this is only really extra services that seem to really be doing this. But I could be wrong. You boys are going to be much more in the know than I am at the moment.

50:46Jim:I know. Bulldog services, I think. And also Markham Moore.

50:50Squeaky:and i think cambridge or peterborough i think someone said they've got they've replaced some spaces with yeah yeah i mean you know people complain about not being the infrastructure so they put the infrastructure in then there's not enough parking does it take as long as you

51:06Jim:put like 400 liters of diesel to charge a truck up then i think it's all about time no i think it would take a lot longer to charge a battery exactly it's just like yeah i know um so but

51:23Mat Ireland:They must have designed it so it only takes maybe 45 minutes to an hour to put some charge into them, surely, I would imagine.

51:30Squeaky:I would have thought so.

51:31Mat Ireland:Because it can't take any more than two hours, because otherwise you'd have to pay for parking. You only get two hours free, right?

51:39Squeaky:Yeah. You charge for an hour and 50 free of charge, and then you've got to drive out. Yeah.

51:48Jim:And he can't drive out because mate is trying to get in on his blind side with a mirror cam. Yeah. And he's having a right on for that.

51:55Squeaky:And it's not working. No.

51:58Jim:So. Yeah, I don't know.

52:00Mat Ireland:I don't know. I mean. I've come across a couple of them. There is one up towards, right at the top of the A1 up towards Edinburgh. The name of it escapes me. Again, you can see a review of it on, ready for a self plug, Trucker Squeaky's TikTok page. That's Trucker Squeaky. And this particular motorway service-style type setup are very heavy on the electric. So they've got four or five truck bays that are electric charging points. They've got loads of car charging points. And when I sent the drone up, all the buildings are full of solar panels and things like that. Right. A real quirky little place, actually.

52:41Mat Ireland:Very futuristic, if you like. Oh, OK. But that is the only one that's right up there, if you look at the map and you think of the rope at the top of the north there that that so yeah you wouldn't get far before you'd need to recharge and what what else infrastructure wise is there

52:58Squeaky:anywhere near there well that's it i mean if people out there know know of a few more places where

53:02Mat Ireland:where the infrastructure is being put in as such maybe even if it's not at the behest of losing

53:07Squeaky:valuable truck parking spaces but i mean ultimately there's still not that many electric trucks about at the moment is there just down a cost and a viability of it all i mean you know your rigid's doing urban distribution on pallet network stuff. It's ideal for that, really, isn't it, where you're just doing short, short runs and you can charge every day and whatnot.

53:28Jim:I did see five brand-new Volvo FMs at Bedford Volvo. They were quite interesting. Yeah, yeah.

53:36Squeaky:So I'm hoping.

53:39Jim:When you're next to them as well, they're weird, aren't they, when they take off?

53:42Squeaky:Yes, yes, they are.

53:43Mat Ireland:Spaceship.

53:45Squeaky:Again, what would my dad think of that? I am hoping this year There's a question

53:53Mat Ireland:I was just going to say on the socials We could put on the socials about Electric trucks What are people's thoughts on electric trucks Has anyone got one? Has anybody got an electric truck? Have you driven one? Yeah, absolutely

54:07Squeaky:What sort of range are you getting? I am hoping to drive some this year Through a friend of mine who's involved with some sort of trials With them, so that would be good that'd be interesting i've driven an electric the electric actress at drifter style just um to take it out of the hall and down the roads to be parked up and then because it wasn't registered i couldn't take on the road oh my god it was it was quick honestly was it oh that was that i i let off it scared me it was that rapid track unit only oh flipping it mate if i really i really want to have a go with a fully loaded electric one because i think that will go like stink and i think if you try one you'll want one i reckon that's my gut that's my gut feeling so well my my own experience

54:51Mat Ireland:my wife has an electric car i call it the milk float yeah um and i must admit that is quite fun to drive yeah you know you you could put it into it has different modes you put it into sport mode you put your foot down jesus christ it's pinned you you are gone like a rocket yeah i was fortunate

55:10Jim:I've drive my ex-boss's Tesla P100D, which I don't want to model it. Model S, is it? Isn't that a Ford? Oh, my God. Ludicrous. No. P100. It won't be. No, Cortina Estate. Because they have the P75. This is the P100.

55:27Squeaky:Right.

55:28Jim:In ludicrous mode. I mean, honest to God. It's just phenomenal.

55:32Squeaky:Yeah, yeah.

55:33Jim:But, yeah, that's my only experience of electric vehicles, again, apart from the Unigate milk.

55:37Mat Ireland:But, again, I'm excited about that. you know like i think that that again you know i'd just sort of emphasizing that we're not grumpy truckers that don't like new technology you know i'm not an old diesel head that's like oh you've got to have diesel you know i'm quite happy to if you if you give me a truck that had the range of of a thousand miles and it was electric and it's fun to drive yeah yeah and it goes like stink off

56:02Squeaky:the mark yeah yeah yeah hell yeah i'm just seeing with it like you same bolt thing on his t-shirt

56:08Jim:giving the tank out. Yeah.

56:10Mat Ireland:But if it's got mirror cams, I don't want it. No, exactly, yeah.

56:14Jim:You'll have to have a electric truck with normal mirrors. Yeah.

56:23Squeaky:Anyway, guys, it's been an absolute pleasure. Yeah. I better let you guys get to bed because we've been waffling on quite well enough now, I think.

56:32Jim:I'm going to play with my sticker collection.

56:34Squeaky:Fair enough, mate. It's been most enjoyable, I have to say. It's the first time we've tried a multi-call for a podcast. So I'll just wind up by saying, you know, thanks very much for listening. Any feedback on this episode, good or bad, please let us know, again, via the various socials. We've got the TikTok page. There's an Instagram page. The Facebook group, Trucker Squeaky, as he said, is on TikTok, as am I, as am Jim, or direct message us, however you need to. but we'd love to hear feedback, good or bad so thank you very much Jim and thank you very much Squeak. Thank you Matt

57:11Mat Ireland:cheers Squeaky, speak to you tomorrow on the CB Talk app. You're very welcome just put a side note on there as well that if you do listen to your podcasts on Spotify Spotify also offer a commenting process down at the bottom of each podcast if you comment on there that really helps with our algorithms so even a thumbs up a thumbs down, just a little comment whatever you want, comment on there and that'll really help boost Matt's trucking great podcast and uh look forward to speaking to you all again next week brilliant thanks a lot guys