Ep 627 - No-Nog (feat. Joe Alto)

19:45Shane Gillis:No, and this is the thing. again my point is more so it's like yeah it's not like okay there's this you know body like looking over you being like bad good bad good because I get the urge to be like fuck you man I don't I can just not subscribe to this shit at all and it's like for sure you can do that my argument is long term like I did it when I was younger being like stuff's bullshit I don't give a fuck and then you get older and you're like honestly there's something to that I think it's actually decent well it's just like a it's almost like a spirit that controls you Yeah. Right. It's like it's just this is controlling me.

20:18It's taking up so much of like my mental bandwidth. I'm constantly thinking about it when I'm at work. Right. I'm thinking about, oh, man, I can't wait till I get home. It's just this like vibration throughout your day. And it really does grip you. And I think, you know, especially like in all these like, I don't know, kind of like lame, like modern male movements are like, I want to be independent. Right. Yeah. I don't want shit. I want to be like. I want to be above all that right like and yeah those same guys that were probably also not even realizing how much porn controls their life yeah or the pornographic in general right is controlling their lives so just like I said always constantly thinking about it or you know even just like you know anytime you see a good looking chick walk by you're just

21:10Shane Gillis:fucking hounding you're good Exactly, dude. My brother puts it best. He's like, even if you're not looking at porn, you can still be gooned. Yeah, absolutely. Or you're on Instagram. You're scrolling. You're scrolling. My brother claims if you're scrolling, you're gooning. Yeah. If you're sitting there and you're in the scroll, you're gooned. You're gooned. A non-orgasmic goon. You're just gooned. Yeah, you're completely just like, oh. Yeah, you're mindless. And it's like the babes are coming. You know what you're doing. Yeah, that's exactly right. You're in your hamster cage, and you're fucking hitting your little switch, and you're going, who are the fucking babes?

21:39Shane Gillis:Well, who am I? you know that's exactly right so it's like you're kind of pulling that lever and there's a lot of things dude like i see these stupid fucking youtube videos where like in in this like male kind of i don't know space um where it's like porn or like lust is like the fuck like if you can get over lost it's like no that's the fucking actually easiest thing i think to get over as a guy like for me you know once i got over porn i started and i'm still like trying to figure out all like the deeper shit that makes me a piece of shit like my i'm fucking angry all the time i am angry all the time i'm yelling all the time i have a lot of like anger and wrath that's much that is for me that's been way more difficult to try to figure out than lust right so for a lot of the times these guys will spend our whole fucking lives just trying to figure out this like porn issue, this lust issue, this whatever, right?

22:39And we spend our whole lives trying to get over that and we haven't even got, we don't have the bandwidth to deal with more like guttural problems. Like for guys, like a lot, like the anger, the dickishness, right? You know, whatever.

22:58Shane Gillis:You don't really think about this stuff. At least I didn't at all until I had kids because then like when you're in an apartment by yourself, if you even have a girlfriend, I'm fucking angry. Who gives a shit? I fucking yelled. Whatever. It's not the end of the world. Once you have kids, you're like, damn, I'm making this place, this living environment hell. And it's me. I'm doing this. And that's why, again, for me, personally, I would say the porn thing, the piece of that was like, I'm at odds with my wife. I want sex. I'm like, fuck. And then you slink off to the porn, slink off to the porn.

23:26Shane Gillis:You never fix the issue. Whereas if you're like, alright, we gotta get on the same page. that we're, you know, we got to be operating. Part of a marriage is we're obviously having sex with each other. We're communicating. Porn's such a little, like, it's like a little underground shelter you can kind of hide out, and then you obviously fucking just become a freak, you know, an underground bunker freak. But that was the, at least for me personally, and it's like you start, and then it's like you ditch the porn safety blanket, and you're like, all right, I have to hash this out. And for me, it's like that then starts, at least starts to spread out into other areas of my life where I would be like, I don't feel like dealing with this, blah, blah, blah.

24:01Shane Gillis:Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. I think it's good. And I really, again, having kids is like the big thing for me where it's like I am every day. I'm like, all right, let's make my house. What can I do to make my house chill, fun, and just like a place that feels good to be in. And that entails when I'm feeling like about whatever, I have to catch myself and calm myself down and realize like this isn't as big as the thing I'm trying to do, which is like create a happy, healthy house. Yeah, that's exactly right. But it's hard. It's very, very difficult to be like, and this is something I had to tell myself a lot of times where I'm like, you know, you're responsible for how you feel inside.

24:40Shane Gillis:It's no one else's. It's literally your responsibility. And it's like, what do you have to do to make that stuff feel good inside your body? Like, how do you feel at ease? And it's like, you have to figure that out. Yeah, you do. And there's like, well, that's a good nuance. take and that's the difficult thing that a lot of dudes just like it takes them forever to figure out like unless like you're super conscious that this is going to be yeah like a long journey right yeah yeah like you're not ever going to come to that realization i'm even thinking about just like how on edge a lot of guys are when they're looking at porn like you got your phone you got your laptop you're always on the high alert because you're just like oh did i exit out of this my wife probably can't pick up my phone did i delete the instagram history the audio go to a bluetooth device 100 dude that would be the worst uh no but you're always on high alert and just think about like what that uh that that hyper you're so you're at your hyper alert and think about what that does just as you in your household how do you conduct yourself yeah yeah if you're always on high alert dude you're just gonna be more you're shady yeah you're gonna you're gonna obviously possibly like flash out with the kids more or with the wife.

25:53And the wife's going to think that, you know, something's up with him. She's going to confront you. And then you're just like, no, I'm not. And then you start to lie. Yeah. Right. So it just creates this bad. Yeah. It's just like a bad household culture, you know? And so I think, yeah, I mean, obviously if you're a married man with kids, yeah, you got to get this shit on lock. You do need to get this shit on lock even if you're single because you're going to bring it into the marriage and you're going to bring it into your household at some point it is also

26:22Shane Gillis:kind of a flex as a young man to be in a relationship being like i don't even look at that crap yeah yeah it's kind of nice yeah because it's like yeah there's i feel like girls have been i don't know i'm trying to think of the word not like conditioned but like i feel like it's become a bit strange for let's say most girls and like just like you know modern normal society to be like, if he wants to watch porn, that's fine. Almost like it's healthy. It's good. But I don't think girls like it at all. No, they don't. I've never met a single girl who's really actually into it. Your girlfriend might say that, but at the moment she becomes your wife.

26:57She's like, fuck this, dude. I'm watching that shit. Yeah. Why are you asking me to do this crazy shit when we're having sex? That's true. Yeah. No, I agree. No, they don't like it. At some point. I also would argue that. I don't give a fuck. I don't think any guy probably wants a wife who is legitimate. Like, you might say you do. Yeah. But at some point down the road, I don't think a guy likes the idea that his wife is cool with him looking at porn. I've said it a hundred times.

27:19Shane Gillis:Him looking at porn. To actually genuinely catch your wife gooning would be devastating. Yeah. No, absolutely. I would be like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. I'd be so mad. Absolutely, dude. Like phone in hand. Phone in hand. I'd be like, bro. Yeah. You're fucking gooned. Yeah, that's gross. I would hate that. That's gross. Well, the female porn thing is interesting. I don't know. I mean, I obviously know more about the guy phenomenon of jacking off. But no, dude, the chicks are loving like the erotica now. Yeah, that's just like mainstream. Yeah, the novels and all that stuff. The vampires or whatever they fuck you into.

27:57There's a new bookshop on my street that just opened up. Girl porn? Yeah, erotica. Oh, no. Like, what the fuck?

28:06Shane Gillis:Yeah, no, that's gross. They're not really open to talking about it. Whenever I always ask, I always ask my wife if she reads, she likes like fantasy stuff. But I feel like now it's like the erotic is in and it's they're not like it's not like the like and then he fucking fucked me in the end. It's like it's all about the moment two people meet. That's the thing. They want like the moment they go fuck it and they just kiss. That's like their erotica. You get whisked away. You get whisked away. And I've learned I listened to this female professor lady was talking about. She's like, dude, I I'm a professor.

28:36Shane Gillis:And I, you know, I just started reading these books. and she's like, I got so fucking, like I would put them literally like almost like a cartoon, like in another book and like hide. She's like, I would read them. And she goes, I would reread that point over and over and over and over where they finally come together. Gets them going. Gets them fired up. It does, dude. And again, for me, it's like, you know, because you hear even going to marriage, people go like, dude, it's great. The idea of having sex with one person or a whole, it's just like a stupid idea. It doesn't make sense. What I found is like it's actually really easy, especially if you're not watching porn.

29:07Shane Gillis:because then you just sit there and you're not especially if you're not jerking off you just eventually your body's going to go yeah it's time for sex yeah and you're not going to go what yeah absolutely fuck my wife i'm i'm horny yeah no it's great so i've been fucking my wife for a long time it doesn't get old no honestly i actually i always this isn't cope it's not like oh i i would tell you i'd be like yeah it's kind of boring i would say guys i'm sorry if i say to my wife sorry fucking boring i'm not bored i go like fuck it yes no that's true i and i think it actually gets phenomenally better when you stop looking at porn like i 100 like i've been dating my wife i started dating my wife when i was 18 yeah so i've been yeah i don't know i've been obviously having sex with my wife for a long time yeah 34 um and it has yeah just hasn't gotten old no it's it's it's uh but for me i remember dating and being a porn hound and i remember i would like I would type it like, whatever, this is cool and all.

30:07Shane Gillis:I just don't think there's – I guess too, obviously, luckily you marry someone you have a sexual spark with. Sometimes that just isn't there. But, yeah, I don't know. I do think it's – I think it's the move. All things considered, it's like you're going to come at it – everyone comes at it from their own angle. But I've gone both sides of the thing. I used to literally watch porn when I ate breakfast when I was in college. That's insane. I would just basically load it up. I'd be like, all right, what am I going to watch? And I would just start, I would eat. I remember just being like, this is so sick.

30:38Shane Gillis:I can watch porn. And it's like, it's literally, you're on like Donkey Island with Pinocchio. I had a college roommate who. Pop-tarts and porn. Yeah, little, yeah, yeah. Make it a day. I had a college roommate who would, who would every night get his laptop out. He was a fucking fiend. Holy shit. This is actually just coming back to me. So he was a fiend. he would open up his laptop, peruse what he wanted to look at in the morning, close his laptop, woke up, have it. But he was fucking, dude, he was sick. He had like a flashlight that he would, yeah, so he was in it. He was in it, dude. He was fucking in it, dude.

31:19But this is actually not, you know, it's funny because, dude, we all have, that's the thing, we all have these stories and it just becomes so normalized that we just think, and it is fun. It's funny objectively, dude. It's funny. It's funny. And yeah, but that's also the other thing. It's like there has to be a nuance in it with it because it is funny, but it's also like grow up. You know what I mean? Going back to the kids, right? Like it's like grow up, dude. Like you can't be just fucking doing this all your life.

31:48Shane Gillis:Well, it is sad because you are essentially having sex with yourself. And it's like jerking off whatever. I get it. Like, you know, look, I always think of soldiers on the battlefield cranking out. Obviously, it's going to happen. But once you get into like the gear, the fleshlight, the Oculus, it's like now you're having sex with yourself. Yeah, you are. It's fucking weird. Well, dude, and then I feel really bad for the guys who – I'm not going to like talk about like the science behind it because I just don't really know. But both – so like this is more so anecdotal. But I've heard a lot of stories even from like users in the app.

32:19Like they just make such a relationship with their hand that this is how you do get erectile dysfunction. It's like the only thing that you can, that's going to get you off is your hand. And so then you're with a chick. This is super tragic. It's really sad for, you know, the 20 something year old guys, the 30 something year old guys, you know, they, they do finally get a babe and they can't get it up. And then, I mean, that's a fucking cycle, right? You can't get it up. You feel like shit. And you just go back on the porn. Yeah. It's fucking crazy.

32:51Shane Gillis:That's the one thing that I – and I think that's being lucky enough to be born before internet porn. Because that does suck for guys who are just like came online and was just like, boom, here you go. How old are you? 40. Okay. Yeah, I'm 34. So there's that. But that six years actually is – yeah. No, that's actually like a huge distinction. Because my parents got a computer and they had no idea what the fuck was going on. My parents had no idea. I don't even know. I didn't even know. They probably didn't know that there was history. Right. So you could just. They didn't. I guarantee you they didn't.

33:23Shane Gillis:They had no idea. We, I remember floppy. I was like in the floppy disk era. That was like very initially. I remember my brother would bring him a floppy disk, pop it in, naked chick comes up and we're like fucking awesome. But yeah, that's my whole thing. I always try not to just like talk down to people or be like preachy about it. It's just like, dude, I'm telling you, like I've run the experiment. It's like for me personally, you could be like in some weird, you know, you could just be like no me and my wife are poly and we watch porn it's like okay yeah yeah whatever good luck it's like good luck but it's like from i i would say if you're standard meat and potatoes whatever if you're like i'm a dude trying to have a wife and kids it's like just it's like it's one of those things where it's like it's got to be kind of kicked out eventually otherwise you have a porn dad i remember porn dads i don't know if you ever came across a porn dad but like guys who just had playboys oh yeah yeah yeah i yeah it's fucking weird looking back on it i was like dude there There was Playboys all over that dude's house.

34:20Shane Gillis:All over. And I'm like. Yeah, no, it's weird. Ugh. It still gives me the heat. I remember being like, dude, your dad's so fucking cool. He has Playboys. I wish my fucking dad had Playboys. Yeah. Now I'm like, I'm so happy my dad had Playboys. Yeah, I'm very. Yeah, no, my dad was not a porn dad. No. He was not a porn dad. But no, I know. And that's also the thing. It's like, yeah, you grow up with it thinking it's like a cool novelty. I want to be like my dad. I'm just going to fucking start jacking off. I don't know. It's weird. It's weird. It's very fucking weird. Also, I remember going around to, like, mechanics shops when I was younger with my dad.

34:53Shane Gillis:Oh, dude, yeah. Plastered and poured. Every mechanic shop's bathroom. And then I, literally just the other day, I was like, were dudes jerking off in there? Yeah, they might have. I'm pretty sure they were. They might have. I guarantee it. Because it's like, otherwise, what the fuck? Yeah. Well, you're just around. And guys are only so fucking strong, you know? So if you're just around, like, tits all day. Somebody. Somebody. I remember it was being a collage of just naked ladies in there. and I'd be like, I remember being little and being like, whoa, my dad would be like, close your eyes, go to the bathroom, come out of there.

35:17Shane Gillis:And I remember just like. We were, me and my, my oldest is four. And there's like up the street. He's not a mechanic anymore, but he, he has an old garage and like we would walk past it. And we said hello one time and he was like, oh, come over into the den. We came over into the den and it was just like, like the classic, like 1970s, 1980s, like tits. And I'm like, fuck, dude, close your eye. I pulled my boy away. I was like, don't fucking look at this. I was so scared. I was like, dude, fuck. I just fucked up my kid's life forever. So. Now, that's young enough. You probably forgot. I hope, dude.

35:55Nah. I hope.

35:57Shane Gillis:I remember I saw a naked lady the first time cut out of a magazine. Literally, it's a classic on the woods, just in the woods, ground in the woods, crumpled up. And it was just a naked lady. I was probably for real, like six years old. Yeah. I remember just being like, what is that? And someone's like, it's a naked lady. I remember being in the woods, it was outside of the Karakong swim club, just being like, what the fuck? And I remember just like, as a kid, just being like, okay, and just like walking about my way. Yeah. Well, hopefully that was him. Or hopefully that's my boy. I'm hoping that he's not fucked up.

36:26Shane Gillis:I think he's fine. It's when you get 10. Yeah, 10. My brother, same thing. They were just like, check this out. Yeah. Naked lady on a thing. And I was just like. Older brother? Older brother. Yeah. Older brother. They're the same exact story. They have their buddies. They have the VHS. and they're like, check this out. I used to have to guard. I would stand. They'd make me stand like this down by the fucking door from when my parents came back and I'd have to run up and be like, they're here! They're here! They let me watch a little bit of it and I was like, this is so fucking stupid. So that's another issue though too because it is such a part and again, you say these things and it's not like it's not bad.

37:03Like I you kind of, this sounds fucking weird but it is like a fond memory. Like that's funny. right that memory is funny it is funny or when your friends all get together which by the way women never think this is real but it's like yeah like a guy yeah in in your class had a dvd or vhs or whatever and then you all go to fucking his house and you're all like just jerking off and what was you're also so young you're like oh you do that too yes it's like yeah yeah like let's do it you're drinking buddies yeah man like what is that that's gay and it's like no it wasn't gay like we weren't jacking each other off we were just we were just jacking off with our thighs touching like that's not gay

37:38Shane Gillis:that's not gay also also it was really like you need you were like like how like heroin addicts all go to like a shooting gallery yeah you were just like yo we got it let's go you essentially have heroin and you're like let's do heroin again so there's and I look back at that and I like laugh and I do think like to some degree it's well and this is this is the difficult part this is my whole deal it's like that's funny I'm not here to like fucking moralize you right yeah but But I don't know a lot of guys who are able to have a relationship with porn and not get addicted or just have like a pretty, you know, dependent relationship with it.

38:18You know, for sure. It's like if you could smoke a cigarette, I just smoked cigarettes with you a couple of days ago. And it's like, OK, I'm not going to smoke a cigarette again. Yeah. Right. But I have that relationship with cigarettes. I can do that. But yeah, with porn, if I'm going to look if I'm looking at porn once, even to this day, I'm probably on the fucking I'm off my rocker.

38:39Shane Gillis:I'm good. Yeah, I'm going to look at it every single day. Dude. And then then there's the issue of like what a poor it's, you know, again, me and my brother talk about this a lot. But like in being in a porn hole is another thing, too, where it's like you're you're using porn, whatever. Some guys go so deep into it where it's like now we're calling hooker ads. Now we're doing this. And then you come out of the whole thing where you're just like, the fuck did I do? I used to read like I would read about this all the time. And you get you on like Reddit and you get porn addiction, this and that.

39:08Shane Gillis:There's a guy who's like, yeah, I was watching porn one day. I kind of spazzed, called hookers. I ended up having like unprotected sex with it. And you're just like, Jesus. Yeah, that's like the worst type of stories. Yeah. But there is a porn hole. You can be like when you're in porn brain and your gooner brain, it's like you might think you're thinking normally, but you're kind of not. You're gooned. You're at a place and you're being like, if you see like a chick, you're just instantly being like, dude, you're about to fucking shit. And it's just like, there's a point of it where you're like, dude, like.

39:36Yeah, no, like I said, it goes back to that, that like spirit energy. Like it like just grips you. Yeah. You can't, it's like a fucking succubus almost. You know what I mean? Like it's like the succubus actually like exists and it's just like ruling your life and you have that attached to your back. Yeah, man. It makes you, yeah, you can do wild shit. Like porn, just got done looking at it for three hours. you feel bad about yourself. It could even be like, yeah, I'm going to fucking buy this new pair of Nikes that I can't afford. You know what I mean? Like you just do stupid shit. Yeah. And there's, and even like, like on like a societal perspective, it's, I don't know what the, I'm not going to say it cause I don't want to look like a fucking idiot, but there's like a percentage of divorce is happening because of porn or infidelity, infidelity, right.

40:23In general. Right. So like that's a, That's a percentage of like whatever the 52 % divorce rate is. And it's like that's just going to cost you a lot of fucking money, dude. So like you were looking at porn. Now you got to pay alimony. Like now you got to pay child support. Yeah. It's like fuck that, dude. Like that's.

40:38Shane Gillis:Well, and it's like you get it. And then that is kind of. Then you fuck up your kid's life. Like I don't care. That's the massive big one. And that's, you know, whatever. But like, you know, you get a divorce. I don't care like if it's even like a positive reason like why you got divorced. Like there are some relationships out there, right, that shouldn't necessarily exist. You get a divorce. You're still throwing a fucking nuclear bomb into your family. Like the kid's going to be fucked. Like the kid's going to have some type of, and it's like a spectrum. They're not going to be fond of it. Yeah.

41:06Shane Gillis:I was, unless you're a sick ticket like me. I remember my parents say together, I wish they got divorced. When I was younger, I used to wish they got divorced so bad. Just because it was like, I would always hear about people having two Christmases. Oh yeah. You're excited. I was a fucking little sick ticket. I remember being like, dude, that sounds so sick. But then it's like, obviously I was on the outside looking in. And I'd probably be very sad. Yeah, I know. We also had – I was one of six, so my parents would laugh and be like, dude, we literally can't get divorced. You can't. Like, we can't.

41:31Shane Gillis:We could, but it would be so – he's like – I remember my dad is always laughing at me. And, like, it's just not – I don't even know how to even go about that. Yeah. But it's one of those things where I get it where you go, well, if I look at porn, I want to get divorced. It's like, no, not necessarily. But you're probably more likely. I really would imagine. You're likely to do more stupid shit or you're likely to be more of a dick to – Like all your bad qualities are going to come out because of porn, like going back to the whole like surveillance thing or you're hypervigilant or whatever. All of your worst qualities are going to be highlighted because you're looking at a lot of people.

42:03Shane Gillis:That's a cool way to put it. It's like it's the kind of a node in this like network of thinking and being that's probably not the best. Yep. Yep. Exactly. And so, yeah, you're I don't know. There's just a lot of ill effects. And what's cool is that I do think more than ever now, people are at least like more privy to this. Even like five years ago, you couldn't really talk about, you know, people like you weren't necessarily talking about porn addiction, you know, or porn. You'd be surprised. I've been droning on about it for like 10 years. But I know what you mean. It was very, I remember the NoFap thing coming out and being like, whoa.

42:41Shane Gillis:Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, guys, please, please, please. I beg of you. I'll be doing stand up August 7th and August 8th, San Jose, California. Come on, guys. Ticket sales. Ooh, boy. Now, everywhere else is looking decent, but San Jose, California. I get it. It's not great. It's summertime. But if you want to come, come. August 13th and 14th, Spokane, Washington. Then I'll be in Portland, Maine, Boston, Massachusetts, Royal Oak, Michigan, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Charlotte, Jacksonville, Atlanta, Chattanooga, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, and a bunch of other places, guys. Go to mattmccusker.com to get tickets.

43:18Shane Gillis:I'll be touring all through December. So in terms of the app, there's like the recognizing that. Yeah, they first have to recognize the pain shit and the fact that. Horniness. Horniness is a real thing. There is just horniness, but then there's a pain component and kind of untangle. You got to untangle that. realize, like I said, going back, that you've fucking... It's almost like if you only worked out your right bicep your whole life. It's going to be fucking huge. And the rest of your body's going to... It's actually a pretty appropriate fucking... Look like shit. Your forearm is just fucking...

43:50Shane Gillis:What are the other two kind of points of it? There's that and there's... There's a community feature. There is... Just like how you have a band of brothers when you're a kid jacking off with each other. That is true. You do have have to get into community with one another. Um, and there is like there, it is shown that some accountability is, is very positive in this, right? So the fact that you can go to someone for like, Hey, my wife just blew up on me or I'm struggling today. Right. Those are like pretty easy examples. Just the fact that you realize that your situation is actually not that unique.

44:25That's another thing. Guys, like we think we just get into this headspace. We get into this tunnel vision. It's like, I'm the only one dealing with this shit. It's like, my wife's only reacting like this or whatever. And then you open it up and it's like, no, everyone's fucking life is very similar to what your experience is. So there's a community feature to it. Um, and then there's a, there's another feature is, which is good for, you know, for some people, there's like a psychoeducational piece, right? You do need to have some understanding of how this is actually affecting your brain and how, how, yeah.

44:57Shane Gillis:What is, do you know that stuff as well? Yeah. Like, what do you want to know? How does it affect your brain? What does it do in like the squishy stuff in there? Yeah. So, well, there's a lot, right? I mean, first of all, it does, you know, everyone's always going to say like, it overrides your, you know, your, your dopamine, you know, receptors. Right. So it does like flood it. So you are more, again, what's hard cause it's very nuanced. You don't realize it's to some degree you don't realize it, but it is like, you know, the greens aren't as green or something like that. You know what I mean?

45:27So like you're going throughout these experiences in your life and because you're flooding yourself with like this, with these dope, with this dopamine all the time. Yeah. You are a little more sluggish towards life. Yeah.

45:39Shane Gillis:That's, that's the way I've heard it. It's like, it's a, uh, someone was saying it's like a neurologically expensive event. Every time you have a look at porn jerk off your brain, you know, you only have, it's like shooting out little, sparks and particles of shit, it's like, it's a lot. It's like every time you're like, naked lady, orgasms, like your brain's going, this is it. And it just fires so much to your point where you start, starts to kind of dull, like the greens aren't as green. You just don't have the juice pretty much. And then like, you know, you start making relationships with the porn.

46:12You start making relationships with the hand. You know what I mean? Like, your brain will pick up on this. So again, like going back to that whole ED point, that's real. Like, if you're really just only able to get off to your hands because you created a relationship with your hand um and your body recognizes that oh no this isn't a vagina like i can't get hard to this like yeah this is it's going to always be a tighter grip so there's that you know and kills your it honestly does crush even things like productivity yeah so your output on that um and i'm i'm very grateful because, again, people are more apt to talk about this shit now.

46:50There's tons of research going on, getting into the weeds of how this is actually affecting men's brains. And I think for a certain guy, that's always good, but that can't be the only piece. You're not going to deal with this just through psychoeducation. You have to have the cocktail of the metacognitive, of the brotherhood accountability space and the psychoeducation. I think that's like the greatest route to overcome this.

47:21Shane Gillis:I agree. Yeah, it's more so part of like consciously authoring your life in a way where you're like, all right, I'm just going to really start every single thing I do asking myself, is this a good thing? You know, should I be doing this? What would it look like if I didn't? And just experiment. That's the one thing I've always been lucky with. I am a big self-experimenter. I love just like doing weird experiments. And like, like last, last month I did a thing where I just try to work out every day for 30 days. I did 32 days just like really hard. No breaks, no breaks just to see like, do I really need rest time?

47:54Shane Gillis:Like I, you hear about all the time. Like what if I didn't? You do. I got very tired, but the, but you kind of like, you know, I don't know. I think it's, especially as you get older, because people fall into this rut of just like, I guess I go to work every day. And it's like, you can always be like giving yourself challenges, self-experiments and do you know i i think that's like one of the best possible things you can do and it's like and again i for me the i was one of the most staunchly like fuck dude if people don't tell you that's bad like they're that's just some arcane old bullshit like you're dumb for listening to that and i was like porn rules do whatever you want all and then you say it's like the classic tale then you get older and you're like damn it now you know you're kind of like I've made my bed and wow, imagine being way more conscious about this stuff when I was in my early 20s.

48:44Shane Gillis:I could have made my life infinitely easier kind of thing. Well, no, exactly. I think that's a good principle. You want your life to be easier. Pleasant. Pleasant would be nice. I would like to not get into a fucking argument with my wife. And it's really like, you know, you really there's something to that. If you're gooned when you're younger and you're select you're like out looking for you know a wife girlfriend whatever you're you're so you don't even realize and maybe this is like without the goon or with it i don't know to be fair but it's like if you're just like used to being like naked chick tits blah blah blah ass awesome but then you learn like oh i have to like relate to this person as a human yeah exactly and that's like maybe that's just the fate of all men no matter what but it's like that's that's like a tough one man because it's like you just you're so gooned out you're like i'm gonna fuck this shit yeah you're just gonna yeah and you have to build a life with it you're like fuck i didn't think about that part so yeah that's a huge part also like even going to the biggest get going to that point though like yeah you spend your whole life i've even seen this where it's like you know you think you develop how much of our taste for women has actually been influenced by porn right so it's like oh i just like you know a fucking big tit brunette chick.

49:59It's like, well, maybe that's actually not necessarily, well, I don't know who wouldn't like a tit brunette chick, right? But, yeah. No, that's, you know what I mean? There's something to be said for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, well, how much of your taste has actually been affected by pornography?

50:15Shane Gillis:You just can't give any specifics. You're like, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, well, it's like, yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome. Do you really like a short Asian lady? It's very slim. You're like, yeah, okay, maybe I'd do it too. Yeah, but I get your point. It's like it does it. And it also like, you know, again, just like you, whether you can say, I know porn is all fake. But if you're just watching that over and over and over and over again, you start to be like, this is how it should look. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. This is exactly how it should look. The jackhammer is not, you don't need to just bust out the jackhammer on a Wednesday night.

50:46Shane Gillis:Yeah. 8 p.m. It's not a real thing. It's exactly right. It's not really like that. No. Well, yeah. And then it isolates you. Because then you come to, what's the goon caves? Oh, yeah, yeah. Have you ever heard about this or read about it? Yeah. There was an article I saw, and I only like half of it. Oh, from the Harper's? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My brother sent me that. I think you sent me that as well. Did you send me that? I sent you. I had three people send me that. I think I sent you that. I sent you monks in the casino. I got to check that out. Did you read that? No, I didn't read that yet.

51:15That's good. That's good. It's all about like the vice economy and how, you know, it's the porn plus the gambling, which is, man, fuck, dude. the gambling is you gamble? No. You sports gamble? Me either. I'm not a big gambler. I am the only you sports gamble? No I've never done it.

51:30Shane Gillis:I'm not allowed to anymore. Your wife? Your girlfriend? My wife. Hell yeah. Yeah. She fucking put a stop to it? Yeah. Good. I was never a big gambler. That sounded bad. You probably had a you probably had a problem but I don't want to talk. Yeah never mind we won't. We can delve into that the next time but yeah I've never been a big gambler man. I never I get it. I've done it a couple times this is fun but I get so sick when I lose money, especially a casino. I've never done it. I've never, I've never, I'm not trying to, I just never have been interested in it. I've, yeah, it doesn't do it for me.

52:03Shane Gillis:And I also don't follow sports enough to like even pretend I have like a winning, you know, a lot of guys watching off where they're like, I'm kind of keyed in. I think that's where it gets guys. They're like, no, I'm seeing something. No one sees. And that's like the. I'm like, I'm not seeing anything. I'm literally, it's roulette for me. I would be being like, yeah, those guys. Yeah. And that's this article. And I haven't read it since, I think it came out in November Monks in the Casino. I forget who wrote it. I think it was just like a Substack publication. But yeah, that's this whole thing.

52:30It's like we, there's these, we're living a monastic life in the sense where all these guys are like isolated and alone. And we're in this like cell and the only, you know, type of interaction we get is with not real people, right? So it's like you're not actually like interacting with the people when you gain. Like you're not actually like interacting with fucking, you know, Bryce Harper or anything like that. Like you're just betting on him and you're not interacting with the chick that you're jacking off to.

52:59Shane Gillis:Yeah. So you're just living a very cloistered life. Even OnlyFans, I've learned, you're not even talking to her. It's like four Romanian dudes just around the clock. Just typing back. Romanians? Pretty much. Pretty much. It's just like four. No, really it is like Eastern European guys and they're, they're around the clock. Yeah. And the lady recorded this shit like four years ago and now she's just chilling. because like when you, I saw this in an interview with someone. They were saying, if you do OnlyFans now, so this person really did, whoever the model is, really, if they have like, usually they have managers.

53:29Shane Gillis:If it's a bigger like porn star lady, she has management, all this stuff. So they take you in. They're like, dude, you're going to do a new piece of content every day for like a year or two. Once you have, let's say, like a hundred something videos, when a new, you just stop. You're like, I'm done. I'm not recording. You can record if you want, but you can also stop. And then that person gets drip fed your old content from years ago from, you know, you quote unquote, but it's just a team of typers being like, oh, hey. And like, you know, it kind of gets like fed out and dripped out. And then it's just like you're you're just like watching an old curated collection while this lady does whatever the fuck they do.

54:02Shane Gillis:But like it's not you're not even with OnlyFans, at least you get to talk to the person. You're not even talking to the person. That's fucking crazy. Yeah. Sucks. That is wild. And in there again, you take like a 30 ,000 foot view on it. That is pathetic, right? It's sad. It's sad. I, again, could have got me, honestly. Yeah, well, no, that's the... If my wife didn't have all my credit cards, I would have for sure signed up for one of those. Sure. But it's like, she's got my... I literally can't. I don't do any of the financial shit, so I don't like... Same here. I also hate fucking doing it. So it's like, which is sweet.

54:33Shane Gillis:I don't have to do that, but it's like... I don't even... I never know how much money we have. I don't know either. I genuinely... I ask her. Like, every, like, twice a year, I'll be like... How are we doing? How is everything? Yeah, yeah. Are we good? Like, we're going to afford the house? Well, I read a long time ago that samurais held it down like that. That a samurai would be like... The samurai would take care of... Oh, no. No. It would be like, I'm a samurai. All this other stuff is dealt with. I'm not even looking or thinking about this, which I try to do. I'm like, if I can help it, I'm not even going to just...

55:00Shane Gillis:Let me know if shit gets fucked up, basically. Yeah. Yeah, that's how we roll. I stuck to that, but apparently it's not the case. A lot of talk to a lot of guys are like, what? They're like, no, I do every... I do all of our stuff like that, and it's like, well, fuck. No, I don't fuck with the finances. I don't touch them. That's a very, that's a, ah. Is that like old world? Like classical? Yeah, ancient Greeks. We're just being like the Greeks, dude. Obviously. The word economy comes from household management. The word economy comes from household management. Dude, we were just talking about this.

55:30It's the nice stuff. It's the word the oikonomia. It is the economia. Yeah. Good point.

55:35Shane Gillis:I'm going to, yeah, fair point. We're just, yeah, we're just living that ancient Greek life. I've said it before. Money's for girls. money is literally for girls yeah I think so money is for real we invented money for girls right here go do your thing shut up here's a piece of paper we fucking made up quiet that's another thing I don't even know how these guys I mean you have to be taking out like private credit cards you're a really ballsy guy if you're you know with a chick and you're prepaid credit card thought about it but it's like as soon as you think about one administrative task you're like yeah I don't want to no dude you're a ballsy guy if you're fucking putting your OnlyFans subscriptions on your regular debit card.

56:14Shane Gillis:It's wild. Dudes get busted. Again, you're in a porthole. You start thinking dumb. You think you can get away. It's not even that articulate. I can get away with this. It's just like, no, I'm going to do it. I'm doing this. You're always going to get caught. I also think this is completely just my own thought. I do think that the fruit of a good marriage is that, or a good relationship. Is that like, yeah, the shit's going to come out eventually. Like you can only suppress it for so long. It's going to come out. Yeah. And maybe it's that or maybe it's just that guys are really fucking dumb and you're in a fucking porn brain.

56:52Shane Gillis:No, women have detective brains, first of all. They're on the beat. They're tied into a level. Yeah, to a level you can't even comprehend in terms of like reading like micro expressions and all this stuff. I learned that a long time. It's like a long time ago. It's like 100 % honesty is the only path. Otherwise, you're just going to get busted. It's a matter of when. Yeah. You're going to get busted. And even going back to your point, like I – what you were saying, like you just like try shit and see if you can do it. Yeah, self-experiment, yeah. Yeah, I mean that's another thing. Like I don't think that guys have to be like in the depths of despair to just try this out.

57:25It's like just fucking try it out. See if you can do it. And there's tools out there. Why don't you leverage that? Like if there's a tool out there that could – and if you really think that you don't have an issue with it, why don't you just fucking try it out? Yeah. See if you can do it. And if you can't, okay, well, then I'm a fucking idiot. And the guys I work with are fucking idiots and we're all fucking stupid. Just prove it. Yeah. It's like to prove us wrong. Like, you know. For sure, yeah.

57:49Shane Gillis:And also, I find it to be a pretty useful bargaining chip in terms of, like, just sex and marriage. I remember the day I was just like, bro, I don't even look at that shit to my wife. A, it felt good. And B, I'll be like, well, just so you know, it's like, you're all I got, babe. They love that shit, too. I know. There's literally nothing else. So it's like, you know, just you let me know. We don't have to do it right now. And you want to give them security and you do. It's the ultimate like, just keep me in mind. That's all I'm asking. Just think about it. Absolutely, dude. Attract the days with me.

58:21Shane Gillis:That's all I'm asking. Are you a guy to like do streaks? I never, like a streak. I haven't looked at porn in like 85 days. No, I stopped doing that. I was never a streaker. I used to for sure, but then I'm just still thinking about porn all the time. I just go like, I just don't do it anymore. God forbid I fall, I'll get right back on the horse. I don't think that that's necessarily a bad way of approaching it. I've actually seen guys in the app who, and we do street, there are street counts. Because I think in some way it can be good to see your progress. It's kind of cool. You're looking in the mirror after you work out.

58:58That's kind of cool. Yeah, but for me, I think that's probably how fucking dependent I was on it. It was like the streak made me think of the porn. And then that.

59:10Shane Gillis:I remember I had this one app. I think it was called Brain Buddy where I would look. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And my little tree would grow every day. I remember the day my tree fell down. But I was like, it's like deflating. Whereas for me. Yeah, your tree grows. And then you think of the phallic nature of the growth tree. I remember the tree. And then you're just like, well, if that's hard. But I lost my tree. And I was like, God damn it. But for me, and I think this is true with like just sobriety, like drugs in general. So the guys who are like white knuckling it, like, fuck, dude, I've been sober six months.

59:37Shane Gillis:I think about it every day. You could do that, I guess. Or it's like you have to find a deeper level of like, no, it's actually, it doesn't even register as A, worth it, or B, like even pleasant in a way. And people do that with drugs all the time. They find just like a bigger thing that they're like, yeah, like if that leads to me losing this, this becomes more unattractive. Drugs becomes more unattractive. Yeah, no, absolutely. That's the point where it's like, it's almost, not like repulsive, like I'm disgusted, but you're just like, nah, I'm genuinely good on that rather than being like, oh, I will do so fucking bad.

1:00:09Shane Gillis:Yeah. I wish I could, but I can't. It's like a very different thing. Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I've never got into that either. But like I said, you know, I guess it could work. Also, whatever the fuck you got to do if you get pumped on the 30 day streak. But it's, that's my thing. It's like, I. Well, that's why like the surveillance shit. I think. Covenant eyes. Yeah. Like, I think here's the deal. At first, do whatever the fuck you can to. Yeah. If you really don't want to look at it, just do whatever you can at first. Right. But yeah, no, I think they're like the sober addict type of thing.

1:00:40Like I do think there's, you know, if it's just like a, if you're just like living out of like fear, I don't think that's like a healthy way to ever get over something. That's true.

1:00:49Shane Gillis:But I, and again, it's for me, it's like, you know, do you man run your own experiment. I ran the experiment. I was like, yeah, this is genuinely not the move. And it took me like years, dude, to like, and I remember just hitting a point where I was like, yeah, I think I'm good off this, man. Like I really, and you know, since then I've just been like, yeah, I just don't, there's times where I'm like, damn, that'd be sick. But I'm like, I know where that goes. Was it before you were married or after? After. After, well after. And I remember, I remember like trying, trying, trying. And then eventually just being like, yeah, I just don't need, I don't need to do it.

1:01:23Shane Gillis:It's like I could, obviously, but it's just something I want to just kind of move ahead, move without. Was it because she caught you? No, she caught me like five times. I was shameless. She would catch it and got me. Yeah. I really was. That's the thing. I didn't have that much. I remember being like, damn, this sucks. I got caught. This is embarrassing. Yeah. But no, not even that. And she never even really pressured me. She would kind of be like, yeah, I'm not stoked about it. And I wouldn't lie. That's a big thing. She'd be like, did you watch porn? I'm like, yeah. Yeah. So I always, like, lying to me felt just like, no.

1:01:55Shane Gillis:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I just got to the point where I'm not going to lie. But, yeah, I never just got to the point where I was like, I just, for myself, I'm like, I just don't want to. Yeah, absolutely. It's just weird. It just feels weird. It's just like, it just comes to the point where it's like, I just know if I never kicked it, being like 70, putting the phone down, I would eventually have jumped off a bridge. Yeah, no, there is a lot of guys, dude, who. Just like 70 years old. Like fucking guys in the app are 70 years old. It's crazy. No, it's crazy. It's crazy because. It would be so sad.

1:02:27Yeah.

1:02:28Shane Gillis:Fear, if like, if death is like a, is like, I'm thinking about death and this simultaneously. Yeah, that's it. I can't have both. It's going to be weird with the advent of the AI porn now. Because I wonder like if guys are going to be like, well, it's not a fucking woman actually. That'll creep me out. AI people kind of creep me out. Like when I see them, I'm always kind of like, it gives me a go weird. It's going to get to the point though. I think it's going to be. indistinguishable. Yeah, and again, even that, it's like, what is the point of this? What is it, sir? And if it's just to be like, I'm just trying to fucking come, it's like, okay, you can do this.

1:03:02Shane Gillis:You can, you know, but I don't know. It's tough. It is. It's tough because, again, for myself, it's like and it's like it's kind of almost a curse. I have a high libido. So I'm like, I would always tell my wife, I need to fucking come. And I genuinely get to the point where I'll, I like will have trouble sleeping. And it's purely physiological like I can't fucking sleep and I know exactly what it is so I get that and there's like you know but for me it's like you know and that's just however you want to play it you know it's like I don't know he's got he's got to figure out it's not like if you do this your life will be ruined but it's like if you weigh heavy on one side versus weighing heavy on another it's like personally I feel like just abstaining from it in general yeah I mean there's a lot of guys who are looking at porn who have on the, like, you know, you look at that guy's life and you're like, that guy has a great life.

1:03:50Shane Gillis:He's showing. And I'm sure, here's the thing, he is a good husband and he is a good father. I would be a fool to condemn a porn user. That's like, trust me. No, but there's, again, but there's like we talked about, there are levels to this. You could level up. You'll probably be a better husband and a better father if you... I agree. I think that's a fair way to put it. You can kick it. Well, dude, let's, uh, let's munch. Let's get some lunch. Let's do it. All right. Adios, everybody. Cool. Anything else you want to? Oh, yeah. Join Relay.app. Can I plug it? Yeah, please. Do it. Do it. Like I said to the guys who actually are, you know, fucking in it, who need, you know, some help or the guys who are just like, this isn't fucking real.

1:04:34I don't know. Just try it out. Yeah. I'm also going to start this beehive newsletter where I'm not going to actually talk about porn, but I'm going to talk about other ways to improve your life. Nice.

1:04:49Shane Gillis:I thought you were talking about the Beyonce fan base. No, what the fuck? Oh, is that what I do? I do not. Is that real? Yeah. That's funny. Is that true? Yeah, the beehive. The beehive is the Beyonce fan base. Well, yeah. So I'm starting a beehive newsletter about Beyonce and all of her happenings and what she's doing. No. Yeah, I'm going to probably call it take it or leave it. There you go. Yeah, take it or leave it. So, yeah, even, and I don't know fucking shit, but I do know like what I fucked up at. So there you go. Yeah. So yeah, but join relay.app. I think the guys, what is it? MSSP. That's a little promo code you can use that I.

1:05:33Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. So put that. We'll give you a free trial. If you don't like it, you don't think it fucking does anything, we'll give you your money back. So beautiful. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. Of course. Thank you.

1:05:43Shane Gillis:Watch new episodes of Matt and Shane's secret podcast on Spotify. Do it.