Abdul El-Sayed says Democrats must win midterms by 'massive numbers': Full interview

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0:36Abdul El-Sayed: Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, welcome back to Meet the Press. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for being here and inviting us to Michigan with you. I want to start by talking about this homestretch. We are here in Mount Pleasant in a county that Donald Trump won by about three points in 2024. How are you going to win over those Trump voters who you are going to need in order to win this state?

1:15Abdul El-Sayed: First of all, how does Mount Pleasant deliver on its name? It is beautiful. Look, you know, we're a couple moments away and we're about to do a town hall. They showed me the pictures of the line out the door. I mean, many blocks long. We just go everywhere and we talk to everyone. It's not a rally where I say a speech and I walk off. We're going to take people's questions, understand what bothers them. But I will tell you this, this campaign didn't just start. I've been at this for 18 months. I've done 110 different cities, 600 public events. And no matter where I go, people say the same thing.

1:47Abdul El-Sayed: It just shouldn't be as hard. It shouldn't be as hard to afford a second bag of groceries. It shouldn't be as hard to afford a tank of gas. It shouldn't be as hard to see a doctor. It shouldn't be this hard to pay your taxes and know that that money's going to be spent on you. We're speaking to the issues that people are facing in their lives. We're talking about what it looks like to actually deliver on solutions to that. That's what people want out of their politicians. You don't have all of the solutions, but they want to see that people are actually going to try and fight for the solutions that they believe in.

2:12Abdul El-Sayed: And we're showing that by going everywhere and talking to everybody. Do you think that you have and that you will win over some Trump voters? I know that we will. I mean, everywhere I go, I get somebody who comes up to me and says, look, I voted for Trump two or three times, and I'm voting for you. And I asked why. They said, it's because you really want me to have health care. I really want them to have health care. It's because you really are America first. I really am America first. I want our tax dollars spent here, not dropping bombs on other people over there. We shouldn't be fighting these wars, whether it's a tariff war in Canada or a hot war in Iran.

2:41Abdul El-Sayed: They're costing us$5 ,600 for this ridiculous tariff war with Canada,$1 ,600 and counting for this Iran war. We're paying for it in our gas, we're paying for it in our groceries, we're paying for it in our souls, in the sense that people look up and say, like, who's actually fighting for me? And I think the reason this campaign is resonating is because we're offering that. People coming together around a politics of buying for the people rather than of the corporations buy the special interest for the billionaires. Let's talk about another president. You announced that former President Obama is going to join you on the campaign show a little bit later on this month in Detroit.

3:19You have been critical, though, of President Obama. After voting for his reelection in 2012, you wrote, quote, Obama was not the right choice. He just wasn't the wrong one. This leader has perpetrated war, violated our civil liberties, deported more people from our shores than any other president before him. And the list of his failures goes on. Do you still see President Obama's presidency as a failure?

3:45Abdul El-Sayed: Well, we've lived through two Trump terms now. So, look, I know that President Obama was handed a really difficult set of circumstances, and he did his best. I also want to step back. Kristen, are your parents still with us? They are, thank goodness. Thank goodness. Mine are too. And I think about my dad. I wouldn't have my life but for my dad's efforts. I'm so grateful for him. At the same time, there's a lot of things about my dad that I do differently, right? And it's because when you intensely appreciate somebody who's done so much to make something that you're doing possible, you're both going to see the best of them and you're also going to see the things that you'd want to change.

4:24Abdul El-Sayed: I can't say how much I appreciate President Obama. I've read everything he's written twice. And it's because he was the president of my 20s. I mean, it was the first time I ever saw myself in politics. I remember when he gave that 2004 commencement, excuse me, DNC speech. And I had never seen politics look like that. He showed me something in myself I would never have seen without him. I mean, his run, the elegance, the grace, the commitment under pressure, just the basket of terrible things he was handed by the Bush era, whether it was a failing economy, wars, a healthcare system that was deeply broken, and the way that he handled it all.

5:05Abdul El-Sayed: Now, that is so much appreciation for what he showed me and me, what he showed our country, the fact that he went first. And also, there are so many things that I would point to and say, I wish we could have that again. But my job is to step up and pick up the baton and run as hard as I can. And I appreciate that President Obama understands that in history. He understands that he did his best with the circumstances he had, and it's the opportunity to pass that along to another generation of leaders who are going to pick up and fight on the moral beliefs that we fight on. We want more people to have health care.

5:38Abdul El-Sayed: We don't want to send our money for war. We want more people to have a union. We want people to be able to work a good job and live a dignified life on one wage. Those are the things that we all agree on. He did the best he could and did an amazing job with the circumstances he was in. And I'm going to try my best to. You're framing this as a family fight, but you've been quite. It's not even a fight. It's just an appreciation. Disagreement, if you will, or critique. You've criticized the Obama administration during your 2018 run for governor in your books. And in 2020, you said, quote, we are not better off than we were before him.

6:12Do you still feel that way today?

6:14Abdul El-Sayed: That's believing that the president can control all the things. Do you still believe that? Just think about the circumstances in which he came into office. An economy that was fundamentally failed on the brink of crisis. We are certainly better off than we would have been had there been another president. But we also understand that that was a really difficult period in our country. That financial crisis was really, really tough. Do you think the country was better after Obama? And I know that he worked really hard on those circumstances. And in some ways, the country was definitely better. When you look at our health care system, so much better after President Obama than before.

6:46Abdul El-Sayed: When you look at peace in the Middle East, right, you look at the cause of peace with Iran. He had negotiated a JCPOA that wouldn't have been possible. He had made peace with Cuba so much better than before. And then there were also circumstances as a function of the circumstances he was handed, things that he tried to take on and improve that coming out of the financial crisis hadn't fully healed. And that's not a fault of his. That is just circumstance. And so I think about eight years of President Obama's leadership, and you compare that to the 12 years we've lived since. You look back and say, man, that was a really capable leader who led with a kind of belief in people, an uncommon grace, even for people who disagreed with him.

7:29Abdul El-Sayed: And we look back now and say, man, what we would give to have President Obama be president versus the individual we have in the White House right now. Any concerns that there could be some underlying awkwardness to his visit, given your past criticism? Look, anybody who—I've had really great mentors in my life, and the best thing about those mentors is they let you grow up. And I think the person who wrote those op-eds when I was younger, I was younger, right? And I was angry about circumstances. And I think about that, and you read Dreams from My Father, and I see echoes of somebody who's frustrated and wants things to be better.

8:08Abdul El-Sayed: And at the same time, I look at how he's led, and I look at, for me, that's 2012 now, so it's 2026, 14 years on. You grow up, and you start to appreciate just how hard change is, and how important it is to pick up and push. And that's not to say that there aren't things that we're going to push on in different ways than his administration led. But it is to say that where we push differently, it is because we've learned from what he's done and because we stand on the shoulders of giants. And so I just got to say, like, you know, I am so grateful to have been a young man in my 20s with Barack Hussein Obama as president.

8:44Abdul El-Sayed: I would never have seen, you know, myself running for office. I told 2007 at my graduation, I told former President Bill Clinton that there was no world in which somebody like me could run for office. After he came up to me and said, you know, you have a gift for speaking, maybe someday you'll run for office. I literally told him, people like me with names like mine can't. And then the next year I watched Barack Obama run for and win the presidency, fundamentally changed what I thought was possible in American politics. He did that. And I'm just so grateful to have been able to, you know, to build on that.

9:13Well, let's talk about some of what you want to do if you do, in fact, win. You have talked about supporting Medicare for all. In your vision of Medicare for all, does private insurance still exist?

9:25Abdul El-Sayed: If people want redundant care, absolutely. I don't want to take anything away. This is about what we offer to people. What Medicare for All is, is guaranteed health insurance from cradle to the moment you pass away, God willing, at 120 years old after a long, healthy life. And it comes without premiums or co-pays or deductibles, and it guarantees you care where you need it. That is a level of security we have never known in the United States of America. And as President Obama called the ACA, he called it a starter home. And I think, you know, you look on, we've outgrown our starter home. it's time for us to reach and to say, what can we get now?

9:59Abdul El-Sayed: And if people want to keep their private insurance above and beyond the public insurance that we guarantee, then great. But I don't want them to have to have that. Because if you look at where we are right now, the average premium is$2 ,000 for a family of four. Average deductible is$4 ,500. That deductible, that's the reason why we carry a collective$225 billion in medical debt, why a third of bankruptcies occur because of medical debt. We don't have to live like this anymore in the United States. Will you take me to my next question? Because when President Obama was passing ACA, he promised people, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.

10:38If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan. Of course, he ultimately couldn't keep that promise. He even told NBC News he regretted making that promise. Under your vision of Medicare for all, Can people keep their health care plan if they like their health care plan?

10:53Abdul El-Sayed: Yes. That health care plan has to decide that they're going to continue to keep those people. And right now what's happening is these health care plans are getting so expensive that they're knocking people out. So that's a choice for those corporations to have to make. But we can guarantee health insurance to everybody. We can do that in this country. We are the richest, most powerful country in the world. And it is a crazy thing, right? People point to other countries and say, well, imagine we did that with militaries. Imagine we pointed to Latvia, no offense against Latvia, but we said, well, Latvia has a mediocre military.

11:24Abdul El-Sayed: We can't possibly have a great military. We don't do that because we're the richest, most powerful country in the world. We are the United States of America. When we put our minds to doing something well, we do it well. And I think it is time for us to put our minds to doing health care well. But you're saying that under your vision of Medicare for All, it's possible some health insurance companies may decide it's too expensive to continue their care. Well, I don't get to decide what a corporation does and their CEO does. Is that a concern, though? But my hope is that they'll continue, if they want to, provide services for folks, that they'll do that.

11:54Abdul El-Sayed: But again, what we get to control in government is what government does. And so, you know, I'm not interested in taking anything away. But I am interested in offering the average Michigander a guarantee that they're going to have really great health care. Think about it like this. You know, in this country, you are guaranteed public schools. Guaranteed. No matter where you move, there's going to be a public school that services you. You want to buy a private education for your kid? Okay, that's your prerogative. That's a choice. But I want you to know that there's going to be guaranteed health insurance for you.

12:25Abdul El-Sayed: And the opportunities that would offer for small businesses, who always complain to me about providing health care, the opportunities that would offer people to think about, I might leave this job and start a new small business. It's not just about health care. This is about whether or not we're willing to unlock the incredible human potential that is currently locked because people are so afraid to lose their health insurance in this country. Let's talk about another big issue, particularly here, tariffs. Your Republican opponent, Mike Rogers, and you, of course, debated on Thursday night. You both came out against President Trump's tariffs.

12:58He initially was for them.

12:59Abdul El-Sayed: Yeah. He came out because he came out against the sagging poll numbers, which have a lot to do with the tariffs. That's two different things. All right. Well, let me let me ask you, though, because I want to know what what your vision might be moving forward. Um, President Biden kept in place some of President Trump's tariffs from his first term. Are you opposed to tariffs in every instance? No, I've been very clear. I actually think, I actually think we need some targeted tariffs. And let me just talk about what free trade, NAFTA, USMCA, which by the way, Mike Rogers championed, literally on the record saying that it was going to work out very well in the long run.

13:34Abdul El-Sayed: I don't know if his working out meant that we were going to hemorrhage jobs, but NAFTA has been a cancer on the American economy. So if you've got cancer, you might choose to treat cancer with some chemotherapy, right? Chemotherapy, though, is poison. So you don't give it all at once. You dole it out in very particular ways in the hope that it will kill the cancer and save the patient. So here's what a smart targeted tariff approach would be. We make really clear industrial policy that's about investing in high growth capacity job creating industries, the future of auto. And then we pass targeted tariffs around those particular high-growth areas, because, of course, a tariff is a tax that we pay to protect the jobs in an industry that we're tariffing on.

14:16Abdul El-Sayed: We communicate that to our trading partners. And as we meet certain benchmarks, then we start lifting those tariffs and selling on the global market, because, of course, when we lift our tariffs, other countries will lift theirs. That is a coherent approach to treating the cancer of free trade, the cancer of NAFTA. What this is is ham-fisted, self-serving, chaotic. It is more about the president accruing power over corporations in America and trading partners abroad. It is about his power and his money rather than our jobs and our money. To that point, though, would you vote to keep some of President Trump's tariffs in place?

14:49Abdul El-Sayed: They'd have to have a particular logic to them. I mean, here's the problem. Are there any that you see that have a logic? A broken clock is right twice a day, right? But this approach that he's taken is exactly the wrong approach. So what I'd like us to do is step back and ask, what is the goal here? What are we building? I'd love to see, right? I want Michigan to continue to be the world's leader in internal combustion engines. We have to dominate that market. But also, it is crazy to me. My dad came to America to make cars. It's crazy to me that we're seeding the international EV market. So here's what I'd like to see.

15:18Abdul El-Sayed: I'd like to see it. Throw down a gauntlet and say, we can make a$25 ,000, 300-mile range EV out of Detroit. And then we would tariff accordingly. We would subsidize the creation of the cars. We'd start pulling the subsidies as we were able to manufacture and hit that$25 ,000 mark. And then we'd pull the tariffs accordingly. And look, I think we can whoop China's rear end. But it's a choice we've got to make. And right now, we are not doing it. We're talking about beating China, but we haven't been in the gym for a very long time. It's time for us to get in the gym. It's time for us to work. And when we invest in our engineers and we invest in our autoworkers, we are the best in the world at making autos.

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17:26Abdul El-Sayed: Like which one? What do you think? Can you name something that he has done specifically? Like a Qatari jet? Like just that alone, right? I mean, there are things that he does on a regular basis. And then there are things that his officials do. Here's the thing about it. I'm running for U.S. Senate. It's not going to be my place to vote to impeach. But I will be in a position to vote to convict. I'll also tell you this. We have a responsibility to make sure that we are bringing down prices first and foremost. It is a crisis out there. I talk to people every single day who say, I can't afford everything between my gas and groceries.

17:58Abdul El-Sayed: That one woman pulled me aside. She's like, hey, by the time I filled up my tank, I had eaten half my grocery budget. That's impossible. So our number one concern has to be to address the affordability crisis. And at the same time, making sure that we abide by the rule of law in this country, that every president understands who comes after Donald Trump, that there is a rule of law. I think that is absolutely critical as well. We can walk and chew gum, but we do need accountability. The rule of law has to mean something. And if a president is making$2.2 billion, his sons are rolling around in private jets extorting foreign leaders for rare earth metal contracts, that's a real problem.

18:35But as you note, you, if you win, would be elected to the U.S. Senate. Are you prepared to vote to convict President Trump if he were to be impeached?

18:44Abdul El-Sayed: I'm going to review the evidence, but I've also been reviewing the tape. And I can see multiple things that my colleagues in the House might consider impeachable offenses. But again, the goal here is not retribution. The goal here is enforcement of the rule of law. But the bigger goal is addressing all of the consequences of the things he's done to make life unaffordable. So the most important thing that the American public needs from us right now is relief. Relief on costs at the pump and at the grocery store. I wonder what you make of the argument that some of your fellow Democrats are making.

19:15Rahm Emanuel told me last week that Democrats should not impeach President Trump because, quote, it's not going anywhere and it's going to be a food fight. What do you say to those Democrats who argue impeaching President Trump would only backfire?

19:30Abdul El-Sayed: Well, look, we do this political gamesmanship thing. And the problem with Democrats is we're we pre negotiate and we do it out loud. The other side, Republicans, MAGA, they don't pre-negotiate and they don't do it out loud. And so we do this thing where we're always sitting here negotiating, saying, what should we do rather than doing stuff? You know what I'm most interested in? Money out of politics, money in your pocket, Medicare for all. That is the reason I am running for U.S. Senate. Those are the reasons that Michiganders will elect me to the United States Senate. So that's our number one priority.

20:04Abdul El-Sayed: But look, we can walk and chew gum. If he has committed impeachable offenses, we have to hold him accountable. But all of that is to say, if we are not offering relief for the American public, if we're not addressing the way that corporations are raising our prices, if we're not addressing the fact that too many people are worried about the fact that our money is being misspent abroad rather than invested here in our schools, if we are not addressing the health care crisis, if we're not fixing the fact that too many people go without a union in their jobs, then we are not addressing the primary concern.

20:33Abdul El-Sayed: So I'll tell you this, the goal here is not the tit for tat about politics. Politics ought to be about policy. Policy is what we're here to do. So focus on policy and also recognize that where our politics have gone askance of the law, we have a responsibility to act according to it. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start, Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin, or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app.

21:10Abdul El-Sayed: Download today. I'm Serena Williams, and I'm healthier on Roe. I've lost 34 pounds in a year with GLP-1's diet and exercise. On Roe, you can access GLP-1 options, including the first FDA-approved GLP-1 pill for weight loss. Go to roe.co slash journey to see if you qualify. 14 to 20 % average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 2.2 % to 3.1 % in placebo R. RX only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to roe.co slash safety. Stay informed with the NBC News app. Major developments out of the White House. Read, watch, and listen throughout your day.

21:49Abdul El-Sayed: And now, unlock even more with an NBC News subscription. Get deeper reporting and exclusive articles. Plus, more insight, analysis and content only for subscribers. When you really look inside these numbers, it's more context and clarity from the reporters you trust. Download the NBC News app now and subscribe for more. Let's talk about your broader vision of the Democratic Party. NBC News obtained audio of you during the primary talking about the need to primary Democrats. Primary and people like John Fremont, I have no problem to do that. I'm looking forward to it. And people are like, oh, we don't primary this.

22:26Abdul El-Sayed: And I'm like, watch me do it. And then what happens is, ideally, you put one ogre on a pike, and then everyone else gets the message. Do you think John Fetterman belongs in the Democratic Party? That's a question for John Fetterman. Do you welcome him in the Democratic Party? He hasn't behaved like a Democrat for a long time. You know, you look at these votes, and it's like the lone Democrat voting for Republicans. Look, big picture right now, though, again, my job is to deliver relief. I want money out of politics, money in your pocket, Medicare for all. I want a Democratic Party that is ready to win on those issues.

23:00Abdul El-Sayed: So I'm going to work with anybody, including President Trump, who famously can't remember my name, to get those things done. And whether it's John Fetterman or it is Donald Trump, I am ready to focus. If folks are ready to work with me to get money out of politics, to take on the power of corporations, to make sure people have access to a union, to stand up to corporate monopolies and oligopolies, and to guarantee health care for everybody. Let's talk about some more of your past comments. In the aftermath of an attack on a Michigan synagogue in March, you condemned the attack, but you said, hurt people hurt people.

23:34You later apologized for those comments. What is your message to Jewish voters who still have reservations even after hearing your apology?

23:43Abdul El-Sayed: Well, my commitment to Jewish safety is the same as my commitment to my own kids. And we need to be able to know that we can go to our schools, that we can go to our places of worship, and that nobody is going to attack and that we are invested in making sure that folks are safe. I know what it's like to be discriminated against for how I pray. I understand that very well. I don't want anybody to face that in the United States of America, whether they're being discriminated against because they're Jewish or Sikh or Hindu or Muslim or Christian. And the things that unite us are so much bigger than the things that divide us, so much bigger.

24:18Abdul El-Sayed: We believe in religious pluralism. We believe in the separation of church and state. We believe that more people deserve health care. We believe in reproductive rights. We believe that Donald Trump is an existential threat on our democracy. We believe that corporations shouldn't be able to buy politicians. So I'm hoping that we can unify around the things that we believe in. And I'll tell you, I've had really important conversations. I've learned a lot in the conversations I've had. Some conversations with folks who will be colleagues. Somebody like Senator Alyssa Slotkin. And I remember sitting down with her and her sharing how she felt when she heard that hurt people, hurt people comment.

24:53Abdul El-Sayed: And it was really important to me to hear, to understand that I had been stepping on somebody's pain. That's not my goal here. But also, Senator Slock and I don't agree on all things. We certainly don't agree on a lot of questions relevant to the Middle East. But we agree that we need to stand up to Donald Trump. We agree that we need to fight back. And so we've been partnering. And where we partner, I'm looking forward to agreeing vehemently on the things we agree on and getting things done for people in the state of Michigan and showing what it looks like to disagree agreeably on the points in which we disagree.

25:20Abdul El-Sayed: As I've said to the Jewish community, frankly, to all communities, if you open the door for me and you invite me, I'm going to come. And is it safe to say, based on what you're saying, you regret making those comments, hurt people, hurt people? I regret any time, you know, if I step on somebody's grief, of course I regret that. And I really wish I'd have thought about how somebody would have felt hearing that and thought twice about making those comments. I want to give you the chance to address some of the attacks that were lobbed on the debate stage. They've also been airing in ads. Former Congressman Mike Rogers repeatedly tried to tie you and members of your family to the Muslim Brotherhood.

25:53Abdul El-Sayed: You know, Kristen, the only reason he said those things is because he really wanted to repeat the word Muslim. Well, let me give you a chance to respond. Because he made roughly ten references seemingly trying to link you to terrorism. You've said you don't want to dignify those kinds of claims. For Michigan voters who are hearing those attacks against you, who are looking to separate fact from fiction, can you set the record straight about whether you or your family have any ties to the Muslim Brotherhood? No, but let's talk about this. No, you don't have any ties. No. And your family doesn't.

26:31Abdul El-Sayed: No. Let me ask you, though, why this is even a subject of debate. because his only strategy is to point to me and my name and my faith and to say that we're different and that you should suspect people simply because they are different than you in how they pray but there are so many more ways that we're the same when I walk around Michigan they understand that that approach is unfortunately it's it's the approach of small people with small ideas who don't really care about solving big problems. Michiganders are open-minded. They're big-hearted. They're gritty. They're earnest. They believe in an America big enough.

27:18Abdul El-Sayed: And they're interested in what we can do to solve our problems together. Because the whole time that he was lobbying insane assertions about me, I was a junior in high school, 9-11. And you know how many ads he's run trying to make assertions. I was a junior in high school. It's shameful. It's truly shameful. But he has no ideas. He doesn't actually care about solving problems. He cares about power. I want to talk about gas prices. I want to talk about grocery prices. I want to talk about seeing a doctor. I want to talk about being able to breathe clean air and drink clean water. I want to talk about being able to survive as a family farmer, as we were talking about today with a group of farmers in mid-Michigan where my family has had farms for decades.

28:01Abdul El-Sayed: And he doesn't want to talk about those things. And it's sad to me that he thinks that the effort to tear us apart for his power is going to work. It is so indicative of this era of Trump politics. But just remember, Mike Rogers is running for U.S. Senate because Mike Rogers, because Donald Trump called him and asked him to. He can't break with Donald Trump for real on anything that's actually relevant. He won't really break with him on tariffs. He won't really break with him on war because his only pathway to power is through him. Now, why does he want that power so bad? Not because he wants to serve you as a U.S.

28:35Abdul El-Sayed: senator. He doesn't have ideas. He wants that power because the last time he had power, he was able to retire and make$14 million as an advisor for the very same corporations he had been regulating as a U.S. congressman. He saw Trump make$2.2 billion off the presidency. He said, you know what? I got to get while the getting's good. And so you know who he's got? We do and all he's got is to point to me and say well, let me say some scary words and it'll work It's not gonna work. Michiganders are too big for that I have a couple more questions, and I know we're almost out of time I do want to talk about the economy you have said I'd rather have an economy that makes a thousand millionaires than one Billionaire do you think billionaires should exist?

29:17Abdul El-Sayed: I think billionaires should pay their fair share back into the system I believe that means we have to pass a wealth tax I think when you start taxing billionaire wealth, you have the opportunity to return trillions of dollars back to the economy to allow other people to participate. I think right now about kids going to school in Detroit. They're going to school in buildings that look like they did 50 years ago. I don't know that they have the opportunities to be able to go and become that millionaire. So what should we do? I think we should tax billionaire wealth. Take some of that money, bring it back to public education.

29:48Abdul El-Sayed: Take some of that money, build schools and roads, provide health care, provide child care. I'm a capitalist, but I believe that too many people can't participate in capitalism because what we have right now is actually corporatism. And if we're not serious about actually making sure everybody can participate in capitalism, then we're not serious about capitalism. You talk about a wealth tax, and some people get nervous that that's going to impact them. Well, if you're a billionaire, you should get nervous. That's going to impact them. Where's the cutoff, and what's the percentage? $100 million, right?

30:18Abdul El-Sayed: Only people with$100 million. If you were to tax people with$100 million or more, a wealth tax. And we're not even talking about a serious wealth. I just want to think this through, okay? Imagine you tax based on wealth, based on what your money made last year. If you're a billionaire, you don't work, you don't make your money off of the money you earn working. You make your money off of your money. So if you're a billionaire earning 10 % on your billion, you're making$100 million. So even if we tax you at 8%, you know what you still made? $20 million doing nothing. You're going to be okay. You're going to be okay.

30:48Abdul El-Sayed: I think the rest of us need to know that our kids get good schools. We need to know that our roads and bridges work. We need to know that we can actually participate in this thing so that those kids in those schools in Detroit can actually say, you know what, someday I'm going to start a business and I'm going to be a millionaire. Let's do a little rapid fire because I do want to get to some of these. Big debate in the Democratic Party. Former Vice President Harris has called on Democrats to expand the Supreme Court from nine to 13 justices the next time Democrats have full control of government.

31:18Would you vote to expand the Supreme Court?

31:20Abdul El-Sayed: I think we need Supreme Court reform. Would you vote to expand it? Yeah. To 13 seats? I mean, not on the specifics. I really want to study the specifics, but I do think we need Supreme Court reform. Right now, this institution is working against a democracy itself. Would you vote to get rid of the filibuster? Yes. So that's a definitive yes. Okay. You worried that that could backfire after Republicans take that control? I believe in democracy. You know how many people hide behind a filibuster of one senator? I think if you want to vote in a particular way, way, you should be exposed to the people who then can hold you accountable for your vote.

31:53Abdul El-Sayed: And so, look, I'm perfectly fine with democracy working, but the answer to fixing democracy is more democracy. The filibuster is fundamentally anti-democratic. You recently campaigned with former Vice President Harris, who said, Democrats have got to turn out the votes in large numbers. We've got to be too big to rig. Do you agree that Democrats need to make the election, quote, too big to rig? We've got to win by massive numbers. Or else what? Donald Trump has already threatened to do what he did in 2020, which is deny the outcomes of an election. And right now, he is president of the United States.

32:29Abdul El-Sayed: He has weaponized ICE in ways that are really quite dangerous, if you think about the implications for our democracy. So yes, we have to win by massive numbers. The guy I'm running against, he insinuates that he didn't actually lose in 2020. He talks about this mythical van that showed up in Detroit with a bunch of votes as if he didn't lose. That's the guy I'm running against right now. And he said that in a time when Joe Biden was president. Now you've got Donald Trump as president. So we've got to win by massive enough numbers that it is unquestionable that we won. Are you concerned that if your race is close, the validity will be called into question?

33:03Abdul El-Sayed: I am concerned that Donald Trump and Mike Rogers are not committed to the institution of our democracy. OK, let's finish by talking about 2028 and looking ahead a little bit. Can we just get through 2026? Give me like 25 days. All right. We can talk about 2028 after 25 days. Okay. Fair enough. You're going to want this question. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is quoted as saying this week at a fundraiser, if Abdul can win in Michigan, anybody can win anywhere. If you lose Michigan, does that mean that a progressive like AOC can't win the White House in 2028? Look, this is one seat in Michigan that has a lot more to do with our local issues in Michigan than it has to do with a national referendum.

33:47Abdul El-Sayed: But I do think it's inspiring to see. We came through 11 to 1 spending in the primary, took on$70 million of outside spending, and won, talking about money out of politics, money in your pocket, Medicare for all. We're getting outspent by Mike Rogers' pharma PACs and big tech PACs and APAC. And, you know, we are out here companioning. You're probably not talking to Mike Rogers. Mike Rogers probably wouldn't sit down with you. Mike Rogers, I think, is probably afraid of you. We have asked him for an interview. And has he said yes? We are working on that. We are working on scheduling an interview.

34:18Abdul El-Sayed: Let's see if he says yes. He's going to schedule it conveniently on November 4th. All of that is to say he doesn't sit for interviews. He barely showed up. I mean, when we were supposed to have a debate, he didn't show up to that. So all of that is to say, look, this race is about Michigan. It's about Michigan voters and what they demand. And Michigan is the most important state in the country, no question. And what Michigan says, people listen to. Finally, last question. Do you think that America is ready for a Muslim president? That's not a question I'm asking. I think Michigan is ready for a Muslim senator.

34:53But do you think America is ready for a Muslim president?

34:56Abdul El-Sayed: That's irrelevant. I think Michigan is ready for a Muslim senator. Okay. But you don't rule out the possibility that... I have no intention of ever running for president. That is not a thing I have ever wanted to do. I want to be a really great senator for my state. You know, if someday, somewhere, somebody down the line decides to run, It would have been a really amazing thing to see how big America really is. But for right now, I really want to be the next senator for Michigan. That's what I'd like to be for a long time to come. I'm looking forward to serving out the next six years. I'm honored to get to do this.

35:29Abdul El-Sayed: And look, America is a big place. And America has this incredible way of reminding us how big she really is. And that starts in Michigan. I'll just say this, my parents came here believing in that big America. and but for some small-minded people with very big mouths, people like Donald Trump and Mike Rogers, I've always found just how welcoming and empowering and supportive and inspiring Michiganders really are. And I've always taken my bet on Michigan and I hope Michigan will take a bet on me. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, thank you so very much for the conversation and the time. I'm honored. Really appreciate it.

36:04Thank you.

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