Meet the Press NOW — September 17

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1:10Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker in Washington, where the president is signaling he's fed up with the Federal Reserve after the nation's central bank defied his demands by hiking interest rates in a bid to rein in inflation. The president slamming the rate hike as he hit the campaign trail with his party facing significant political headwinds on the economy and the Iran war with less than two months until Election Day, casting blame on the Fed's board and baselessly claiming it was conspiring against him. He also said he personally gave his new chairman, Kevin Warsh, the green light on how to vote.

1:47Interest rates are too high. They're not appropriate. And I told I talked to Kevin and I said, you might as well vote with the board because it's not going to matter. The board is very hostile. They're very political. They're raising the rates to they're raising the rates to make Trump do as bad as they can possibly do. The only problem we have is that interest rates are artificially high. Interest rates in the United States should be one percent or less. Lower the interest rates for the United States of America and fast because we can grow at a level that nobody's ever grown before. Now, more rate hikes are expected as the war with Iran continues to drive up energy prices.

2:29Oil closed above$100 a barrel for the sixth day in a row. And the national average for a gallon of gas has spiked more than 20 cents in the last week, far above pre-war averages. Diesel spiking new highs as well. With voter frustration growing, yesterday, Vice President J.D. Vance and Speaker of the House Mike Johnson tried to assure voters they understand the economic pressures they're facing. There's a lot of good that's been done, but there's a lot of work left to do. Don't give power to the people who cause the problems that we're fixing. Give us another chance or give us another couple of years to continue to work on the amazing things that we've been doing for the past two years.

3:08And the second argument I'd make is even if you don't agree with us on every issue, the other party is consumed by craziness. I think we'll be entering a new phase. What our candidates are doing is they are on the ground in their districts talking to the people with authenticity and frankness. Of course, gas prices are too high. Our candidates are addressing that. And they are, again, reminding the American people of the extraordinary record of success that we have done. We still have the challenge of the Iran conflict not being fully resolved, but I believe we're on path to do that. And that will make the final difference.

3:42The question that every American has to ask and what our candidates are saying on the campaign trail right now is they're asking their constituents to ask themselves that question. Which which party's policies are better for me? The vice president's plea for a second chance comes as polling shows the president deeply underwater when it comes to the cost of living and the Iran war. And Democrats holding an edge over Republicans when it comes to a broad swath of issues with voters. Joining me now is our NBC News team. Monica Alba is at the White House. Senior national political reporter Sahil Kapoor is at the big board.

4:17And politics reporter Alan Smith is on the road in Battleground, Pennsylvania. Monica, I'm going to start with you at the White House. Let's talk about these interest rates. The president seems to want to put some distance between his pick for Fed chair and yesterday's rate hike, which is pretty interesting. Do you think that that goodwill is going to last if rates get hiked again? That's a very good question, Kristen, because we have sort of in some ways seen this movie before, certainly with Jerome Powell, who the president also handpicked some years ago to lead the Federal Reserve. Of course, that relationship soured pretty infamously.

4:53And the question is, could that be the same fate for Kevin Warsh? Right now, the president seemingly trying to say that he likes Kevin, he likes his pick. He's going to give him a little bit of breathing room here and really blaming the board overall and casting them as hostile, as you played there in the introduction. I think the question and the operative kind of sense here is that these things can go downhill. But the president also right now is giving it a little bit of time. He's saying very interestingly that he's having these conversations with his Fed chair, which is also of significance here.

5:27essentially, you know, bringing into question all of this about a perceived independence with the Federal Reserve. But we know that that had sort of gone out the window over the last year and a half as the president has been very clear about what he wants to see the Fed do. And the administration today hasn't been shy about it either, Kristen, really kind of talking about this decision as an unfortunate one, a negative one. And I think you can expect the president to keep talking about that broadly before he maybe criticizes Kevin Warsh more specifically. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right about that, Monica.

5:58The president also last night lashed out on an issue he has spent a lot of time talking about, focused on trade. I want to play a little bit of that and get your reaction on the other side. We're carrying almost every country in the world, and that really cannot go on that much longer. I'm letting them know I'm going to say that can't do that. We just can't do it. But all we have to do is say, you know what? We're not trading with you anymore. We don't need anything they have. We have cars. We have lumber. We have food. We have everything. Monica, based on your conversations with your sources, what are you hearing about the status of talks between the U.S.

6:38and Canada at this moment amidst this what's really become a trade war? They are non-existent, Kristen, which tells you so much about the status of this relationship. And in fact, Canada is now talking about potentially becoming an associate member of the EU after the EU commission chief made that overture in the last couple of days. And so you have this kind of alliance between Canada and the EU with the prime minister, Mark Carney, saying earlier today that he's not really interested in another global bloc, but maybe perhaps one that will have better manners, a dig and not so indirectly at President Trump.

7:14And this has really been a tit for tat back and forth. And it's unclear what will force the parties back to the negotiating table. But we should point out that just before the end of this month, before the end of September, an additional round of retaliatory tariffs are set to go into effect, which will continue to put economic pain not just on the U.S.'s northern neighbor, but on some of these key states here at home that import a lot of those Canadian goods as well, Kristen. Oh, absolutely. Monica, good preview and good thing to keep in mind as we look ahead. Thank Thank you so very much, Monica, starting us off at the White Hill.

7:47Sahil, let's go to you. So the president won in part in 2024 because of the economy. Of course, he built this pretty broad coalition. How is the strength of that coalition looking right now? By the numbers, Kristen, we are seeing real cracks in the Trump coalition that powered him to a decisive victory in 2024. What I'm going to do here is zero in on four demographics that shifted toward Trump between his 2020 defeat and his 2024 victory. And then we're going to look at what they think of him today based on the latest New York Times Siena College poll of registered voters. Let's start with Hispanic voters.

8:21We see here a 14-point swing toward Trump from 2020 to 2024. This was hugely helpful to him in key swing states. What do Hispanic voters think of him now in terms of the approval rating? 30%. Look at this. He's well below his 2024 margin. He's even below his 2020 margin. Let's go here to voters under 30. Young voters moved toward Trump by seven points. Many of them were unhappy about the economy, unhappy about the cost of living. They traditionally vote Democrat. They thought, let's give Trump a chance. What do they think now? They're not happy with Trump. 21 % approve of Donald Trump, which is much lower than what he got in 2024.

8:55We also have voters earning less than$100 ,000 a year. This is a huge share. This is about 59 % of the entire electorate. So even small margins can have huge consequences here. An eight-point shift toward Trump among these working-class voters from 2020 to 2024. He even got 51%, a majority of them, which is highly unusual for a Republican to do. What do they think of him now? 31%. That number has crashed. That is well below what he got in 2024. That is not where Republicans want it to be. And then finally, non-white voters who didn't go to college, another Democratic stronghold. They still voted for Democrats.

9:29But look, they moved eight points toward Trump in 2024. This is helpful to him. Trump didn't need to win every demographic, but this is how he won in 2020, by peeling off voters who typically vote for Democrats. What do they think of him now? 22%. This number has fallen precipitously as well. So bottom line, Democrats are going to be looking at all of these numbers and say, this election is a referendum. If you're unhappy with Trump, vote against a Republican, vote for the Democrat, vote for change. Whereas the Republicans are going to say, yes, we get it, that you're unhappy with the cost of living, with the cost of gas, the cost of food.

9:59But they're going to argue that this is a choice between a Republican and a Democrat. And in the words of Vice President Vance, give us another chance. So let me ask you about another subset of voters, because obviously Latino voters were critical to President Trump's re-election in 2024. Where are a couple of places where the Latino vote could make a big difference? Absolutely. So let's start with Texas. About 26 percent of the electorate is Latino. This is hugely consequential. They could be decisive in Texas. Ken Paxton defeated John Cornyn. This is an open seat. He's going to be facing the Democrat James Tallarico.

10:32Democrats feel very bullish about Texas. It's been a white whale for them. Could this be the year? Could Hispanic voters be decisive? Let's look over here in Colorado, the 8th District outside Denver, outside Boulder. Gabe Evans won for the first time in 2024. He's a freshman. This district is about 40 % Latino. He's going to be facing, as his opponent, Democrat Manny Routanel. Gabe Evans is going to have to do a lot better than that Hispanic voter approval number for Donald Trump. Finally, California 22 and the Central Valley, David Valadeo, the sole surviving Republican in the House of Representatives who voted to impeach Donald Trump after January 6th.

11:06This district is about 70 percent Hispanic. Democrats redrew it as part of their gerrymandering push to make it a little bit more democratic, but not dramatically. This is still a competitive district. But David Valadeo, who has overperformed in recent cycles, is going to have to dramatically overperform the number with Latino voters in that Hispanic heavy district in order for him to be this. He can't do this with Hispanic voters in order to win that district. And that's the dynamic we see all over the country, Kristen. Wow. Just fascinating. With less than two months to go. Sahil from the big board.

11:39Sahil, thanks so much. Great breakdown. Let's turn now to NBC politics reporter Alan Smith. Alan, thanks so much for being here. So you have been crisscrossing the country, Alan. You're currently in Pennsylvania, but you just wrapped up a trip to Battleground, Michigan, where progressive Democrats are the party's standard bearers in a pair of must win races. What were your key takeaways? Well, Kristen, you know, it was really interesting. When I was there earlier this month, Will Lawrence was holding a roundtable with only a few data center activists, was very small and intimate at a small town diner.

12:12And then I went and saw Abdul El-Sayed later on in the day, and he was in a massive expo center taking questions from, you know, dozens and dozens of voters. You know, the campaigns look a little different, but they're trying to achieve the same goal. Win battleground races as candidates who kind of, you know, originated from the party's left flank. Something that Abdul had told me in an interview that was very interesting was when I was asking about the comparison between running against the Democratic establishment in a primary and what might be different than running against Republicans in a general election, he said, look, you've got to be doing the same thing.

12:47So, you know, you really shouldn't expect to see that much of a pivot here as November nears. Interesting. Well, Al-Sayed's, of course, past campaigning with progressive streamer Hassan Piker has been a big issue in this campaign, this fight for the Senate seat, a central line of attack for Mike Rogers, who's, of course, his Republican opponent. In an interview with Axios yesterday, Piker said he believes the U.S. conducts more terrorism than al-Qaeda. He's not really doing al-Sayed any favors here. Rogers is calling for al-Sayed to condemn him. What are you hearing? Do you think that's likely?

13:27So, Chris, and with Dr. El-Sayed's response to those comments from Hassan Piker, he's doing what he's done a couple of times since the general elections opened up, which is put some distance between himself and Hassan Piker, but not do a full condemnation. Now, what his statement was in light of Hassan's latest comments was, you know, I don't agree with this statement on Al-Qaeda, nor do I give much weight to the statements made by a social media streamer. So on one hand, he's separating himself from the remarks, but he's also trying to delegitimize Piker as a campaign issue in this race, as Republicans really have elevated him, especially in the last couple of weeks.

14:02He's been trying to delegitimize this as an issue, but it keeps coming back to him, particularly now that Hassan Piker continues to speak out. It doesn't seem like this is going away, is it, Alan? You know, and it's one of those things in Michigan specifically, you know, Abdul is trying to win over skeptical Jewish Democratic voters. Some of them really do not have fond feelings for Hassan Piker. So that's the tightrope he's trying to walk right here. And, you know, I asked I asked him earlier this month about how he is trying to win over some of those skeptical Jewish voters. I think it's fundamentally about reminding people that we are committed to the safety of all people.

14:42You know, my commitment to the safety of the Jewish community is the same as my commitment to the safety of my own kids. There are some people who are going to disagree with my outcomes. They're going to say, well, I disagree deeply with your position on Israel. And for me, that's a non-starter. That's their choice to make. But if you're committed to the future of our democracy, standing up to people like Donald Trump, making sure that we are standing with unions and providing health care and protecting against the onslaught of a kind of hate that we've seen Trump and Trumpism bring, then I hope we can lock arms around those things.

15:11Alan, what was your takeaway from what he said there? You know, he actually has made a huge effort since the primary wrapped in trying to win over some of those voters. And something that was really interesting at his town hall earlier this month, the very first question asked was by a gentleman who said, look, I've got a lot of Jewish friends who are Democrats and really are concerned about you. I've been struggling to convince them to vote for you. What can I do? What what can you do that will help me convince them to turn out for you? So obviously a huge issue that he's contending with as November nears.

15:45Absolutely. Alan Smith, not ready for a lot of sleep between now and November. I appreciate you taking time to share your reporting and your interview with us. Thanks, Alan. Thank you so much, Kristen. Coming up, artificial intelligence, real concerns. Meet the House Democrat helping to lead the charge on shaping AI policy in Congress. as policymakers and the companies themselves grapple with how to combat the technology's most urgent threats. Plus, the United Nations says the U.S. may have committed war crimes in Iran, citing a deadly attack at a school in the earliest days of the war. The report and the response is straight ahead.

16:22You're watching Meet the Press now.

16:29Hey, what's up, guys? It's Haley Bailey. OK, I need to tell you about something. I just got YouTube Premium. It's got tons of awesome features like offline downloads, so I can download my favorite videos before I travel and watch them whenever I don't have Wi-Fi. Because we all know airplane Wi-Fi is the worst. I get ad-free, I get backroom play, and there's like a ton more in there. You should try it. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Try it now for two months free at youtube.com slash premium. Trial eligibility varies, terms apply, cancel anytime. That's a mouthful. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie.

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17:48Welcome back. We want to turn out to the very latest warnings on artificial intelligence. OpenAI announcing it discovered at least six new incidents of unexpected or concerning behavior by its latest models, along with a new framework to better track and report future incidents. It comes as concerns about the industry and the debate over regulating AI are front and center politically. Today, Pennsylvania governor and potential 2028 presidential hopeful Josh Shapiro called for immediate action to address some of those concerns during a conference in Pittsburgh. Here's what he said just moments ago.

18:22I want to be clear. I am not a doomer. I don't think it is inevitable that AI is going to take over the world or that someone will misuse it to kill us or to do harm. But I do have real concerns, as do many Pennsylvanians and many Americans. And I don't think that the very real concerns of our neighbors that they overwhelmingly express about this technology is a hoax, as our president has called it. Here in Washington, the House began its recess without taking regulatory action. And an effort in the Senate yesterday to pass legislation requiring companies to build a so-called kill switch into their models was blocked.

19:11Scientist Jeffrey Hinton, the so-called godfather of AI, issuing this warning after holding a bipartisan bicameral briefing on the Hill yesterday. How much time do lawmakers actually have to get ahead of this before this is a big problem? Very little. And what is a little? A few weeks? A month? Maybe a year, but not much more than a year. If you look at predictions for when we'll get super intelligence, it used to be maybe 30 years, maybe 50 years. Then it came down to maybe 10 years, maybe 20 years. Now people are saying, a lot of the researchers are saying, only a few years, there's only a few more years.

19:48Because AI has now reached the point where AI is designing better AI. That's called recursive self-improvement. and that's, we're reaching that point. It is going to get out of control unless we do something. Terrifying to hear that warning. Joining me now is Congressman Don Beyer, Democrat from Virginia. He's co-chair of Congress's bipartisan caucus on artificial intelligence and has gone back to school to pursue a master's degree in machine learning to understand more about AI. Congressman, thanks so much for being here. Really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you, Kristen. It's a really important topic.

20:27I'm so glad you're paying attention to it. It is a critical topic, Congressman, and we're grateful to have you here to talk about it. And it's remarkable. You've actually gone back to school to learn more about it, given your educational pursuits. What do you make of this moment in the latest warnings over AI, what we just heard? Well, I'm so glad that we're finally paying attention. It seems in the last couple of weeks with first anthropics mythos model that President Trump put on hold and then hugging face incident where those thousands of agents got got loose from open AI. And then the resignation of that anthropic computer scientist last week.

21:06I heartily agree with what Jeff Hinton said yesterday. He earlier had said, give us an example of something time when a less intelligent creature managed a more intelligent creature. It just doesn't happen in nature. And yet we're going hell bent on building something smarter than we are. Well, let's talk about what Jeffrey Hinton said. In addition to what you're talking about, he also said that Congress has maybe a year to get ahead of AI, to get ahead of this issue. Do you agree with that assessment in that timeline? I agree with Jeff on the Congress part of it. In the meantime, we do have to acknowledge that the large, the labs like Anthropic, OpenAI, Gemini, they are also very much aware that their business model will fail and maybe the whole world will fail if they don't do something right now.

21:57So they are trying to put together their own internal safety mechanisms. We do have a safety institute at the National Institute for Standards and Technology that Biden created and Donald Trump has kept. But we're going to need ultimately a federal regulatory agency and that we should do soon. Do you have confidence that Congress can and will act within the next year? And I guess as a follow to that, what should regulation even look like, Congressman? I do. I'm not optimistic, Kristen, that we'll get it done before the end of this year. We should. We've done some bipartisan letters to Speaker Johnson to please bring us back so we can do it.

22:37But we definitely will do it next year, especially if control in the chambers changes. What should it look like? A lot of people have looked at various federal institutions, whether it's the FDA or the FTC. Demis Asabas, who won the Nobel Prize with Jeff Hinton, said we need something that the industry puts together so they can get good. their very best talent and act quickly, but have federal oversight and federal punishment if things aren't kept up. Well, let me ask you, because Republican Senator Rand Paul actually blocked a so-called kill switch bill yesterday. I want to play a little bit of what he had to say about AI and get your reaction on the other side.

23:19Take a look. Are there dystopian possible futures? Yes. And I'm one that thinks most dystopias come from government. So I think we ought to be very careful what we let government do with AI as far as surveillance and interference in your business. But I think just cutting off a technology or trying to kill a technology before we truly understand it's a mistake. What do you make of his argument, Congressman Beyer? Well, I'm glad that he acknowledges that there is an existential risk for AI. And my sense is that Senator Paul misunderstands what the kill switch bill does. All that does is give government the ability to shut down a model that is an imminent danger to its people.

24:01That's really what Donald Trump has been trying to do in the last couple of weeks too, is saying if these things like mythos is going to get out of control, he's been prohibiting it. But what we need to do is not have something that's to the whim of one person. There should be investigatory verification organizations that are looking deeply into each of these models and know when you have to quit it, when you have to stop it. Well, let me ask you big picture a little bit about the fight for Democrats to take back the House. How big, if Democrats do win, do you think the margins might be come November after Election Day?

24:41Well, Chris, I'll be happy with one or two, but I think they could be bigger. Certainly, I'm in Virginia. We have three or four seats that we could flip from Republican to Democrat. We have so many candidates right now we think could win. Democrats beating Republicans. It's unlike anything I've ever seen. It's still a week is a long time in politics. We're still 47 days away, so a lot could happen. But right now, young people can't find jobs. No one can afford a house. Grocery prices are high. We're up for a new gas shock in the next couple of days. And we just raised interest rates yesterday.

25:19The economy is a mess and people are very pessimistic. We need to give them hope and maybe a new Congress dedicated to doing something. We're coming off the least productive Congress in our nation's history. It's ripe for change. As you say, a lot could happen between now and Election Day. A lot of states dealing with redistricting. There's a big debate, Congressman Beyer, about whether there could in fact be a blue wave. When you look at some of the latest numbers, what do you think? Well, Kristen, there certainly could be a blue wave, but we still have to acknowledge that this is a divided country.

25:55And just two years ago, Donald Trump won all seven battleground states. So we Democrats can't relax and say there's a blue wave. We have to run through the tape and we have to continue to make the argument that we will restore the health care cuts that came in the big, ugly bill, that we will fight to bring down grocery prices and electricity prices, and that we will fight the corruption that exists in the White House right now. And just finally, just finally, Congressman, I want to switch gears here a little bit. Democrats sounding the alarm. They say they're worried President Trump plans to actually demolish the Kennedy Center.

26:29Now that the courts have ruled that his name cannot be on it. Images overnight showed the president reviewing a poster board on Air Force One that appeared to include plans to demolish the Kennedy Center. Are you concerned? And do you think Congress can do anything to prevent any action by the president like that? Kristen, there's a lot of things this administration has done that I thought have been foolish. And the tariffs, the war in Iran. But tearing down the Kennedy Center, even though it wouldn't change our lives, would be just heartbreaking and a great sacrilege. and dishonor not just John Kennedy, but the whole notion of our commitment to the arts.

27:13All of this so that he can have his name on the building. I hope that no Democrat and no Republican thinks that this is behavior appropriate for a president of the United States. And to that question, can Congress do anything? Does Congress have any recourse? Well, I know Joyce Beatty, who's a member of Congress from Ohio, she's been in court today trying to hold the president in contempt of court, trying to make sure that the justices stop him. If it goes to the Supreme Court, they've been doing the right thing recently. I'm sure that the Supreme Court, even the Supreme Court with Clarence Thomas and Alito, would stop tearing down the Kennedy Center.

27:49All right, Congressman Don Beyer, thank you so much for your time and your perspective. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks, Kristen, very much. Coming up next, the United Nations Human Rights Council releases a new report documenting its findings on alleged war crimes in Iran. since the war broke out days before world leaders descend on New York for the UN General Assembly. Keep it right here on Meet the Press Now.

28:17Hey, what's up, guys? It's Haley Bailey. Okay, I need to tell you about something. I just got YouTube Premium. It's got tons of awesome features like offline downloads, so I can download my favorite videos before I travel and watch them whenever I don't have Wi-Fi. Because we all know airplane Wi-Fi is the worst. I get ad free, I get backroom play, and there's like a ton more in there. You should try it. If you like YouTube, you'll love YouTube Premium. Try it now for two months free at youtube.com slash premium. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. That's a mouthful. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie.

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29:52Welcome back. Turning now to developments in the U.S. war with Iran. A new report released by the U.N.'s top human rights body says it, quote, found reasonable grounds to believe that the United States committed war crimes during a pair of airstrikes which killed at least 178 civilians, including women and children. One of those strikes involved hitting a school in February. The Pentagon has previously said the incident was under investigation. When asked about the strike in June, President Trump confirmed the administration was reviewing what happened and told reporters, quote, nobody did that on purpose.

30:25The second strike in question was also carried out on the same day, hitting a sports complex and residential area, according to the report. The Pentagon has also denied responsibility for that strike. The White House last hour responding to the report in a statement saying, quote, In part, the only party in this conflict that has committed war crimes is the Iranian regime, which has murdered thousands of its own people, killed Americans overseas, executed acts of terrorism in the Strait of Hormuz, and launched indiscriminate attacks against its neighbors in the region. Joining me now to discuss this is NBC News senior national security correspondent Courtney Kuby.

31:04Courtney, thanks so much for being here. So what more are you learning about this U.N. report. So it seems that they believe, based off of their investigation, that some of the claims that this strike, yes, while it may have been U.S. Tomahawk missiles that actually carried out the strike, that it may have been an accidental hit. So in other words, they were trying to go after something else. This was a known Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps cruise missile site and base. And they may, the question had been for months now whether they accidentally hit the school when they were intending to hit other buildings and structures on that facility.

31:35This report is now calling into question whether that's true and instead saying it appears that the U.S. was trying to hit this location with this strike. Now, we should note as part of this, they also found that the Iranians were responsible for crimes against humanity. The real question is, will any of this have any actual impact on the U.S. based off of the statement out of the White House? It doesn't seem like they're taking it very seriously. You're absolutely right. That is the question. Does that have any teeth? You know, I want to ask you big picture about the war. The president kind of casting this moment as a crossroads.

32:06He told Axios about next steps, quote, I have a big decision coming up. Do I want to go in and annihilate them, the Iranian regime, or do I not? It's a big decision. Anything could happen with me. Obviously, he's made similar threats before. But, Courtney, what does your reporting tell you about what the president's latest thinking is, what he thinks his next steps are here? What's not clear is why now. What has suddenly changed? Because it has really been status quo there for some time now. The Iranians are still firing off sometimes some cruise missiles, some drones into the Strait of Hormuz.

32:39The U.S. is still shooting some down. But for the most part, there is still a trickle of activity going through the Strait of Hormuz. And the U.S. is really there as a blockade. And it's somewhat of a stalemate. So what now? Is this to break the blockade or to break the stalemate or not? It's not really clear. What is clear is the U.S. military continues to have this huge presence forward, enough, way more than they need for their current operations. So if the president were to decide he wants to restart combat operations and he wants to do something like he suggested in that interview and go in and take out the Iranian regime, the reality is the U.S.

33:16military has a lot of firepower there and they could carry out a lot of different operations for him for a relatively extended period of time, too. Well, that's certainly notable. And speaking of the status of the Pentagon, there's new reporting that you have that the Pentagon is considering potentially pulling out as much of a third of U.S. forces from Europe. Why and how seriously are they considering this? It's very seriously under consideration. So this is something that we've been we've been hearing about for some time. It's not really a surprise based off of the past comments that we've heard from Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, his head policy person, Bridge Colby.

33:48They've talked about the desire to the way they put it is they want Europe to take more of a stand for its own security. But as part of that, the idea is that they would pull back U.S. forces. So we're talking about not only potentially 25 plus thousand U.S. troops of the roughly 80 ,000 that are there, but also pulling back capabilities, aircraft, maybe even potentially leaving some bases entirely. President Trump has also signaled that he wants less Europe to rely less on the U.S. military for their own security. So the real question now is, will this some sort of a plan be accepted? And then, of course, there is still the National Defense Authorization Act, the NDAA, which says the U.S.

34:31cannot go below 76 ,000 total troops there. So the question is, could they do some funny Pentagon fuzzy military math here to make this work or not? Some of the options are going to be presented as early as tomorrow to Secretary Hagseth. I know you're going to be all over it. Please come back and update us. Courtney, it would be great to see you. Thanks. As always, really appreciate it. Coming up after the break, the race to replace retiring Senator Mitch McConnell. I go one-on-one with the Democratic candidate vying to flip the deep red Kentucky seat blue for the first time in decades. Keep it right here on Meet the Press Now.

35:16Welcome back. We want to turn now to the Senate race to replace retiring Senator Mitch McConnell in Kentucky with Democrat Charles Booker taking on Republican Congressman Andy Barr, who is endorsed by President Trump. Booker is looking to flip Senator McConnell's seat as Republicans battle headwinds on the economy and the war with Iran. The last time the state elected a Democrat to the Senate was over three decades ago in 1992. Joining me now is Democratic Senate candidate for Kentucky, Charles Booker. It's great to see you in person. Thanks for being here. Of course. Honored to be here. Well, let's talk about the state of play here and start right there.

35:54I mean, you heard it. Democrats haven't won this seat in three decades. What makes you think you can flip this seat now? Well, Kentuckians are hurting. They're looking for leaders who will stand up and meet the moment for them. The prices of gas and groceries is breaking the backs of a lot of people, and they're frustrated with the status quo that's been filled with broken promises from Donald Trump. And I've done a lot of organizing over the years from the hood to the holler. And what I know is people are sick and tired of a status quo that Mitch McConnell built, and they're looking for leaders who will fight for them.

36:25And that's why we're building so much support. That's why polling shows us already within single digits and we're in a position to win this race. Polling shows you in single digits. If you look at the spending advantage, though, that your competitor Andy Barr has, It's not insignificant. According to our files, you have two point three million compared to nine point nine million that Andy Barr has. Is is that something that you can overcome, given that clearly he's got the cash advantage, the ad spending advantage? Well, this campaign truly is a grassroots, people-centered campaign. And so we're not afraid of Andy Barr and his big money from Wall Street.

37:11And the fact of the matter is he's funded by Wall Street throughout his career, 14 years in the Congress. He did nothing for Kentucky but sell us out for the big banks. That's why he's in his penthouse hoping to get more power for himself. And while we have been outspent, even in the primary, we were outspent four to one and won by double digits because we know the power of organizing. But we still need to build some support, too. Well, and talking about the support that you need to build, Democrats are investing in some of these Senate races that are hotly contested. Texas, Alaska, Florida, Ohio.

37:43Do you need more support from the national party in order to get this race over the finish line? Well, this race is of national importance. So absolutely, we do need that support. But one thing that's clear, people of Kentucky are ready for real change. That's why people who voted for Trump are organizing with me. people who've never voted before are organizing with me. We've built some real infrastructure because people are sick and tired of Mitch McConnell and the corruption in Washington. And so we're in a position to win. And that's why I'm asking everyone to join us and go to charlesbooker.org to help us out.

38:14Let me ask you about what your opponent is saying about you. Andy Barr refers to you as a socialist and the quote Mamdani of Kentucky, of course, reference to Mayor Momdani, you've been very clear that you're not a socialist. Where do you differ from the Democratic Socialists of America? Well, you know, I've never subscribed to any of those labels because they've never really spoken for the challenges that we've seen in Kentucky. We got to come out of our corners. And that means stepping out of the Washington labels and really fighting for the people. Because as I've mentioned, whether you're Democrat, Republican, or Independent, we're all being screwed.

38:50So I'm finding to make sure that everyone can afford to have the medicine they need and keep a roof over their head, fighting to make sure people can be safe in their homes and in their communities, fighting to make sure we have our pursuit of democracy protected. And I don't care about the labels that Andy Barr throws at me. We're standing up for the people. But just to be very clear, where do you see differences between yourself and the Democratic Socialists of America? Well, the main thing that I see is that we need to build coalitions and we need to make room for everyone at the table. And so that's why leaning into a Kentucky First platform that says whether you are a lifelong Republican, whether you are a Democrat, whether you are independent, we are here together based on our common bonds.

39:32And where there are disagreements, let's find ways to build together. That's how I was able to pass my partisan legislation in the House, State House, and that's why we'll do it in the Senate too. Let me get your reaction to something that Vice President J.D. Vance told Republicans in a meeting this week. I'm going to read some of it to you, get your reaction on the other side. He said, if you're one of the few Republicans who's running against a Democrat who's not that crazy, then just talk about Abdul Al-Sayed. He's got enough material for the whole country. What do you make of those comments?

40:01And do you think Dr. Abdul Al-Sayed is potentially hurting Democrats in tough races? Well, what I can say is in Kentucky, the national narrative is not hurting our chances of making history because we're poised to do it. Because the one name that everyone is pissed off at in Kentucky is Mitch McConnell. His unfavorable rating is over 80%. And so I know there's a lot of national discourse. And I've been laser focused on Kentucky because I know we have a chance to win, not based on the national narrative, but on meeting the needs of the people. And when we flip Kentucky, we're going to flip the U.S.

40:36Senate, too. When you look forward this week, former Vice President Kamala Harris is poised to campaign with Abdul Al-Sayed. Would you welcome her on the campaign trail? You know, I'm open to anyone who earnestly wants to lift up working people across Kentucky. I'm excited to see folks coming off the sidelines because this is a moment that requires all hands on deck. We have to take back the Senate. We have to repair a lot of the damage that Mitch McConnell has caused. The Supreme Court, for instance, the fact that we have a gutting of the Voting Rights Act is because of Mitch McConnell. So all of us do need to step in and find ways to lift our voices.

41:12And I'm asking folks nationally to look at Kentucky, too. So given that, would you welcome Vice President Kamala Harris campaigning with you? Well, I'm welcoming anyone that's interested in lifting us up. Our team is being very diligent in our endorsements. And I know a lot of folks support Vice President Harris in Kentucky. There are a lot of folks who have expressed opposition, too. So we're being very diligent in building our coalition. But our coalition is for everyone. When you think about 2028, she said she's considering another run. Do you want to see her run? Do you think she should put her hat into the ring in 2028?

41:44Well, I certainly believe that she has earned the right. She's broken a lot of barriers and has earned the right. And I know there are a lot of folks that are looking at 28. But the fact of the matter is, if we don't stand up in 2026 and take back the Senate and clean up the mess in Washington, conversations about 28 really become moot. And so I feel a great sense of urgency, a desperation coming from one of the poor zip coats in Kentucky to fight for my family, to protect our pursuit of democracy so we can talk about 28. All right. Well, we are going to track your race very closely. Charles Booker, thank you so much for being here in person.

42:18Of course. Thank you. Great to see you. Still to come, give us another chance. More on the vice president's message to voters with just 47 days until the midterms. Plus, brand new NBC reporting on Secretary of State Marco Rubio's potential political future in 2028 and beyond. The panel digs in. That's next. Stay with us. I'll meet the press now.

42:47Welcome back. New reporting today on Secretary of State Marco Rubio's plans for the future. Two people familiar with the matter telling NBC News Rubio has said privately what he said publicly, that he has no plans to run for president in 2028. Those sources, though, say that Rubio has acknowledged that 2028 could be a tough political landscape for Republicans, suggesting the 55-year-old Secretary of State could campaign in 2032 or 2036 instead. The new reporting is shedding light on the Secretary of State's role tied to the war and his political future. Joining me now is today's panel veteran political reporter Molly Ball, Joel Payne, Democratic strategist and former senior aide to Hillary for America, and Jesse Arm, Vice President of External Affairs at the Manhattan Institute.

43:34Thanks to all of you for being here. Molly, I want to start with you. I find this reporting to be so fascinating. And quite frankly, I find Secretary of State Marco Rubio's posture to be so fascinating right now, because we've seen and heard a lot more from Vice President J.D. Vance than we have from the Secretary of State when it comes to the war with Iran. What do you make of this mix that we're watching? I, too, found this fascinating because it answers a question that I personally had been thinking a lot about, which is where is he? There's a lot going on in the world. We have undertaken this war that has now been going on longer than the president predicted.

44:09And the secretary of state has not been super visible on any of this stuff. And so this reporting was very interesting. He seems to be positioning himself a little bit outside the spotlight, which you could see as potentially a political calculation, particularly given that the war is unpopular. And while Vance has been more out front, he has also sought to distance himself from it a little bit. So you could see this as trying to stay away from a decision that he might not want to be associated with down the road. You could also see it as the worst of both worlds, right? It's hard to distance yourself too much from an administration you're such an important part of.

44:47And by not being visible, it does raise questions about what kind of role he's playing and whether he is an effective secretary of state. So beyond the whole presidential calculation, which frankly, I don't think you can ever put any stock in that kind of answer, right? People change their minds all the time. But I was very intrigued by what this story said about sort of how he's thinking about his role in all of the conflicts that we're facing. It is pretty fascinating, Joel, obviously not your party. But how are Democrats watching this play out? And do they see a Secretary of State Marco Rubio as potentially a tougher match than Vice President J.D.

45:27Vance, who has been, quite frankly, out front more so on the war with Iran? I'm struck with two observations. One, where's the constituency for Marco Rubio? I don't know if there is a majority constituency in the current Republican Party, Republican coalition that exists for a neocon, somebody who is from a different generation, someone who's run for president before unsuccessfully. I'm not sure if that constituency comes together as easily as maybe Rubio or his advisers or his inner circle would think. I think the future of the Republican Party is probably going to look closer to J.D. Vance, closer to Donald Trump's vision of the party than than Marco Rubio's.

46:05But we'll see. I'm just a lowly Democrat. So take what I say with a grain of salt. The second thought that I have is if you have the moment to take the reins, History has told us you should do it. I mean, Barack Obama took the moment in 2008. Chris Christie waited. Hillary Clinton waited. Mitt Romney, John McCain, those folks did not strike at the right moments. And I think history has proven that when you have the moment, you've got to strike while the iron is hot. And I think it would be a mistake if Rubio thinks that his time is now to think he can put it off for another four or eight years.

46:37That's an interesting historical perspective. Jesse, I want to play a little bit of what we've been hearing from the vice president and get your reaction to that. Take a listen. give us another chance or give us another couple of years to continue to work on the amazing things that we've been doing for the past two years. What do you make of this messaging from the vice president? How do you think it plays into his potential calculations as he considers a potential run in 2028? I think Vance is trying to test the midterm message that comes from Bill Clinton circa 1992 into 1994, right? This feeling of I feel your pain.

47:12It's a softer touch message than what the president is running with. The vice president said that. He gave a very good speech at the RNC convention, midterm convention that happened the other week. But the president is hammering more on this message of left-wing radicalism. The Democrats are now captured by an ascendant socialist faction. And it is the case that even as we see generic ballot tests in these big polls showing a Democratic advantage, socialism, at least according to the New York Times-Siena poll, is still underwater something like 20 points. To that point, though, let me follow up with you.

47:41Do you think that's going to be effective in this climate when affordability is still the top issue for voters? When you hear the president make and the vice president making as well that argument, do you think that's the most effective argument? I do. I think affordability is going to be a constant for every president moving forward. I think economic anxiety is going to be a constant. I think that this was something that dominated the Biden era. Inflation is down from that peak. But this is still something that voters are concerned about. And what I will say is that I think that when Republicans position themselves against radicals in the other party, that is where they tend to be doing best this cycle.

48:21In Maine, in Michigan, even in Minnesota, at least if you trust the big polls. Joel, the president is an effective messenger. And he's effective at hammering a point over and over again and then having it stick. Do you think this idea of trying to paint all Democrats as socialists and crazies, do you think that that could turn some of these battleground districts and states? No, I mean, the polling that we've seen shows that. Also, if you just anecdotally look at what people are saying, I mean, I'm sure, Kristen, you saw this ad that Maria O 'Vara Salazar put out in Florida that essentially is running away from Donald Trump in a district that he won by 15 points.

48:58You can't outrun people's lived experience. And I'm sure you want to play that. Ask and you shall receive. We have it. We have the tape. Let's play it. Congressman Salazar criticizing Donald Trump's immigration policies. Let's take a look at everyone's reaction on the other side. The president, some of your immigration enforcement efforts have gone too far. In July, 50 percent of the 50 ,000 people that were detained had no criminal record. The same Hispanics who helped you get to the White House in 2024 feel betrayed tragic today. That's pretty powerful. The same Hispanics who helped to get to the White House feel betrayed today, she says.

49:35Molly, what do you make of this? And does it underscore that there may be some cracks forming in the mega base? How do you see it? Absolutely. With the Hispanic vote, which is a swing vote now, you see in polls that Trump has lost a lot of ground. I believe you touched on this earlier in the show. The problem is there's only so much you can do to outrun a bad dynamic. And, you know, as Joel and Jesse were talking about, this is a real divergence between the president and vice president. Trump's strategy is always to say, don't believe your lying eyes. Everything is actually great. And you have Vance trying to actually acknowledge that maybe people are not happy and trying to position the administration as in touch with that.

50:17But, you know, the question voters are going to ask when you do an ad like Congresswoman Salazar is, well, if I'm not happy with this administration, why should I keep you in office? Why should I keep a Republican in office who is coming out and saying that she has failed to persuade the president not to do the things she's criticizing him for? Jesse, what do you make of this video by Congresswoman Salazar, do you think? And are Republicans concerned about what the implications might be? I'm heartened. I think it speaks to Salazar running a campaign that meets the ideological priors of the area in which he's running.

50:53The Democratic Party is an underinstitutional. There's an overinstitutionalized party. And the Republican Party is an underinstitutionalized party. The Republicans have a boss. His name is Donald Trump. He sets the rules. And then there's a lot of ideological diversity that is willing to fester within the ranks. OK, you were just pointing out earlier that J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio don't necessarily see the world on the exact same playing field. That may be the case. Susan Collins certainly doesn't see the world the same way that Ken Paxton does. But if you kiss Donald Trump's ring, you're basically allowed to run with a bunch of different messages.

51:26It's not allowed in the Democratic Party where the NGOs run the show and everybody's got to say they support kids under the age of 18 being allowed to get a sex change. Joel, you probably want to respond. John Cornyn about how much festering Donald Trump allows within the big tent of his party. I mean, Republicans have been smacked down from this. I do think the reality of the political cycle is meeting all Republicans and Donald Trump in his political operation because they don't have the hammer to enforce the type of discipline within their ranks that they previously did. I appreciate you trying to speak that into existence.

51:57What about the Thomas Massey primary? What about Marjorie Taylor Greene? These people aren't returning to Congress because they are able to enforce the hammer. And by the way, Paxton and Cornyn is an example of that, too. Great. I mean, run with Donald Trump. I think that's not demonstrating itself to be a good move for Donald Trump. No, the point is you run with Donald Trump where it works and you don't where it doesn't. And that's a wise choice. It's going to be a lot of not working. Molly, what do you make of this debate that's playing out? And I mean, it is true. People who've disagreed with Donald Trump have found themselves on on the way out.

52:25And yet there does seem to be space for Congresswoman Salazar. Well, we'll see if she wins her election. I mean, that's ultimately where the rubber meets the road. And that is what she is trying to accomplish here is to say to her constituents who she knows very well. Right. She's a former TV anchor. So people people have a lot of comfort with her and they trust her a lot. And so but the question is, will they be willing to believe her when she says that they should continue to support her and another another Republican? Jesse, just very quickly with the few remaining moments we have, I mean, part of the issue is, is there an erosion of support amongst Latino voters?

53:01Is there enough time to win what Molly has described as these are now swing voters back? Yeah, politics is a pendulum these days. So there's going to be probably an erosion of support everywhere. Donald Trump won by a very large margin in 2024. People have an appetite for change. That's relatively natural. The question is, how do you tell them that the kind of change the Democrats are now offering, The center left doesn't have much of a spine, can't articulate what they're for. The DSA is the alternative. All right. Thanks for a feisty conversation, guys. Appreciate it. Molly, Joel, and Jesse, we are back tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now.

53:32There's much more ahead on NBC News Now.

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