Meet the Press NOW — September 23

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1:11Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker. At this hour, Chinese President Xi Jinping is en route to Washington for a high-stakes state visit with President Trump. It comes as the president battles new signs of political turmoil here at home ahead of the midterms, with a growing number of Republicans now distancing themselves from his actions, including his summit with President Xi. The Republican chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Roger Wicker, publicly criticizing the expected pageantry of Xi's visit, which will include a state dinner at the White House tomorrow. During every minute of dialogue, our commander in chief should keep in mind that his guest is a brutal, unelected and oppressive dictator who seeks to dominate his neighbors and whose massive military arsenal is aimed directly at the United States of America.

2:08President Trump is expected to greet President Xi at Joint Base Andrews in just a few hours. The first time he's met a world leader there. Coverage of that historic moment, however, may be limited depending on what happens in a court hearing going on right now on the president's ban of three media organizations from the White House. We'll have more on that hearing in just a moment. The president's attacks on the press are another place where we're seeing some criticism from Republicans. Was it appropriate for the White House to kick MSNOW, Politico, CNN out of the press board? It's absolutely inappropriate.

2:46The better approach to tough questions is a good answer. I don't agree with cancel culture. I didn't before when it was being practiced under the Democrats, and I don't agree with it now. Now, we're also seeing pushback from more Republicans on the president's handling of the war against Iran and its impact on rising fuel costs. Ohio Republican Senator John Husted, who is defending his seat this November, told Politico, quote, the war needs to come to an end as quickly as possible so that we can lower gas prices. Congresswoman Ashley Hinson, who's running for Senate in Iowa, posting on X, Iowans are being squeezed and shouldn't have to foot the bill at the pump or the checkout line for the war in Iran.

3:34And Michigan Senate candidate Mike Rogers is up with a new campaign ad echoing that call. Look. The war with Iran needs to end and end quickly. When it does, energy costs will plummet. But Michigan families can't afford to wait for that to happen. We need to do something now. I've previously called for the suspension of the state and federal gas tax, 70 cents a gallon. And another place we can start, diesel. Now, we've also seen other Republican candidates rebuke the president's immigration policy or even remove references to Trump from their campaign websites. All of it signaling growing concern inside the president's party that his flagging approval rating could cost them in November.

4:18Republican Senate Majority Leader John Thune acknowledging today some members may have to prioritize their political survival over their loyalty to the president. Are you concerned that more Republicans, including your own members, are breaking with the president, especially the ones were on the ballot and then it turned? Well, I mean, I think, you know, if I'm running in an environment like this, you know, obviously you're going to develop a campaign and a message that you can win in your state. And so I encourage most candidates to run their own campaigns. I think they need to be their own person.

4:56And I think that's the best way to move. Joining me now is NBC News senior national politics reporter John Allen and chief Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Noble. Thanks to both of you for starting us off. John, let me start with you. What are you expecting? What are you going to be watching for from this really extraordinary state visit with President Xi? I'm going to be watching for any change in this relationship that has been at a standstill, Kristen. The United States and China have been engaged in a trade war for the entirety of President Trump's second term. There are huge issues on the table that have not seen any advancement, including, of course, that trade war, but also artificial intelligence, the security of Taiwan, which produces, of course, so many of the chips that the United States needs for its technology.

5:41So we'll be looking for any change in that at all. And of course, the tone. President Trump and Xi have had a huge bromance, and I wonder how long that is able to continue. Well, you know, John, as we noted, more Republicans have distanced themselves from the president over the last two weeks. I mean, talking to your sources, how much concern is there inside the Republican Party right now? There's a ton of concern, Kristen. I mean, we are seeing these Republicans break from the president on the Iran war, on gas prices and the Iran war's effect on those gas prices, on immigration enforcement in terms of Congresswoman Maria Ovely-Selazar.

6:22What I've been hearing from Republican strategists is that they expect to see more separation from candidates who want to be able to show some distinction from Trump. The question, I think, for most of them is whether this is too little, too late. They all clung to the president. The White House has not gone out there and said to candidates, like Senator Thune said in that bite just a moment ago, has not said, hey, run your own campaign. Hey, it's OK for you to separate yourself. And so, you know, I think what you're going to see here is a test of which of these candidates are really able to do that and convince voters that there's a difference between them and the president.

6:58Well, Ryan, let me turn to you on that point. I know you've been talking to your sources on Capitol Hill. Is there a sense that this may be too little, too late in terms of these attempts by some of these Republicans to distance themselves from the president? So, Kristen, the problem for Republican candidates up and down the ballot is that what needs to change for them to change their fortunes are the material realities on the ground. And there's no sign that gas prices are coming down anytime soon. The president himself has said that he doesn't expect the war to end until after the midterms. And so when you're trying to make this case that you want to do something about it, but you're representing the party in power, that's a very hard sell to voters who are having a hard time filling up their gas tank, who are having a hard time at the grocery store and in just in general feel that the cost of everything has gone up.

7:48So it's the only play that they have at this stage of the race. And it will certainly be easier for challengers who aren't currently in office. But most of these Republicans running have a record. For instance, Ashley Hinson now says that she's opposed to the war, but she's voted numerous times to allow it to continue. So it's a difficult position for these Republicans to be in, especially at this stage of the election. Well, how notable is it that this has stretched beyond the so-called YOLO caucus, Ryan? Well, I think it is definitely significant. And there's two ways to look at this. One, there is a group of Republicans who, you rightly point out, have nothing to lose.

8:27There's a group of Republicans who are trying to hold on to their seats. And there's also a group of Republicans that are looking for maybe some other option. The best example being John Curtis from Utah, who is potentially eyeing a run for governor there. There are subtle motivations between each one of these Republicans that are breaking with the White House and they come to it all for different reasons. But the simple fact that they are willing and feel enabled to stand up to the White House is something that we have not seen much in this era of Donald Trump's dominance of the Republican Party.

8:59And it's certainly not something that we've seen this close to an election. Well, John, let me turn to you. The president seems to be trying to address concerns over fuel prices. That's obviously one of the big, biggest headwinds Republicans are facing. He's apparently reportedly floating the idea of a diesel export ban. How seriously is the president or administration officials thinking about that? They're obviously thinking about it very seriously. The question is whether it would have the intended impact. There are many experts who believe that if you ban diesel exports, that what ends up happening is a shortage on the market that creates upward pressure on diesel prices again.

9:40So it's not clear that that'll be effective. I think the president is looking for ways to try to help his party. He does have the power. Instead of talking about how he might want to do it, he does have the power under the emergency powers he has claimed in his presidency to put that ban in place if he wants to. Could have done it yesterday, could have done it at any time over the last several months and has not done it. So I think they're looking at it seriously. Whether or not it happens is another question, again, because he hasn't done it yet and because there are so many experts who say it would have a counterproductive effect on diesel prices.

10:12Well, Ryan, I mean, you've been talking to folks there on the Hill. Is there a consensus about whether a ban would actually help? What are lawmakers saying to you there? No, I mean, it's all over the place and it's all over the place among Republicans. The majority leader, John Thune, has said he can see both sides of it, but isn't necessarily supportive of it. Ted Cruz of Texas has actually said it's a bad idea. But Bernie Moreno of Ohio is all in on it and thinks it is the best solution and the best path forward. The problem, though, for Republicans is even if it were to bring down diesel prices, you're so close to the election already.

10:48Do voters actually look at this as a material policy change that's going to help them forever? Or do they just view it as a gimmick to try and get Republicans over the finish line to the election? A lot of these late Hail Mary throws by the Republicans will probably be met with a degree of skepticism from Republicans or from voters, I should say. And keep in mind, if you are an independent or moderate voter, it's not just one thing that you're upset about. It's not just diesel prices alone that are going to make you feel better about voting Republican this fall. There's a whole laundry list of issues that have led to the president's 30 something percent approval rating.

11:29And it's very hard to envision that any of those are going to change in the next couple of weeks. All right. Thank you so much, Ryan and John, for starting us off. We really appreciate it. And turning now to breaking news in Washington, where right now a federal judge is hearing arguments in a lawsuit brought by the three media outlets banned from the White House. MSNOW, CNN and Politico are asking the judge to issue a temporary restraining order to lift the ban, which they contend is unconstitutional and a, quote, direct assault on the First Amendment. The administration is defending the ban in letters sent to all three outlets, accusing them of publishing sensitive or classified information and arguing a court filing, quote, plaintiffs, CNN, MSNOW and Politico have long been granted privileged access to White House grounds.

12:19But the president concluded that they have failed to maintain basic minimum standards of professionalism and decorum expected of those given access to the White House complex, including by publishing sensitive or classified information. End quote. President Trump also called the judge hearing the case, who is a Trump appointee, quote, disloyal. NBC News senior justice reporter Ryan Reilly joins me now, along with NBC News legal analyst Danny Savalos. Thanks to both of you for being here. Danny, let me start with you. I know you're tracking this closely. Ryan, this hearing began a little bit more than an hour ago.

12:53What has happened inside that hearing room, Ryan? Yeah, so it started out really rough, I think, for the government because the judge came out and sort of laid out the precedent here and laid out how there are, surprisingly to him, based on a decision that he made when he looked at the standing case law, when he first made a decision about access involving Jim Acosta at CNN several years ago, that there is this due process, right, for members of the public before any credentials are revoked there and basically said that that process wasn't followed in this case. In fact, that's exactly what he said.

13:26The The judge said the process was not followed. So starting out the hearing, I think that's a really good sign for the news organizations who are trying to maintain their access. And, of course, you have a lot of news organizations behind them and supporting this. The government is now making their argument, saying that, you know, there are national security concerns. But I think overall, the problem for the government here is that Donald Trump, and according to the plaintiffs in this case, as they argued in court, laid out his explanation pretty clearly. And now they're sort of trying to create this track record, this pretextual nature, sending out these letters after Donald Trump had already made this decision.

14:05So there was no due process here, right? So Donald Trump unilaterally declares that he's going to ban them. And then several days later, they send out these letters giving some sort of justification. And the judge has already declared in court that that was not, the procedures were not properly followed in that manner. So I think, you know, overall, based on what we've heard so far, it's leaning towards is looking pretty good, I think, for media entities here. All right. Stand by for me, Ryan. Danny, let me turn to you now. Let's talk about this argument that the administration's making that somehow national security has been put at risk, that these reporters from these different outlets haven't represented themselves with the right decorum.

14:45He says there is a First Amendment in place. And of course, these news outlets are also saying this is a violation of their due process. Does the administration have any type of argument here? Yeah, their argument that this is an issue of national security is probably their best of a bunch of weak arguments. And you can't fault the lawyers because they've had to cobble this together after the fact. Trump issued this ban and now they're coming up with legal justifications. And national security, fine, it's an argument. But on the other hand, it has always been the relationship between the press and the government that the press tries to find things out and the government maybe doesn't want the press to find those things out.

15:23So that is probably not going to win the day. Just hearing the judge so far, the judge seems receptive more to the plaintiffs, more to members of the media than the administration. He questions the government a little more than he does the plaintiffs in this case so far. You know, Danny, the media outlets are saying that President Trump has undermined his own argument with comments he made on Friday. I want to play a little bit, get your reaction on the other side. Is there a particular reason? No, no reason. No, just because, no, no, it's really just cumulative stories over the last two years.

16:00You get sick of it. And you call them and you tell them, I have very good experts, like people behind me. Bobby Oz. They call and they try and explain things to them. They know that they know it. They know it as well. They're smart people, but they purposely write negative news. And they do that because they want to try and diminish the Republicans and a Republican administration. Doesn't sound like national security concerns. Does that could that undermine the argument the administration's trying to make? It does. Let's take two baskets. And really, everyone's talking about the First Amendment, but really due process is probably the plaintiff's stronger argument.

16:38Due process requires that if you take away some right, then you need notice and an opportunity to be heard. A very interesting issue is, is it proper notice and the opportunity to be heard if it's after you have that right taken away? In other words, can they revoke the pass and then say, OK, now you can submit your written explanation or argue it with us after we've already taken away your pass? That is a really interesting issue that will be developed. But one of the things that's hurting Trump the most is anything that appears to be them conjuring up some justification after the fact, because there really can be little doubt that when this decision was made, it was made summarily with virtually no advanced planning.

17:16It is almost the definition of due process violation. If you consider that the right was taken away and there was really no meaningful opportunity to even be heard. Some people are drawing parallels between this case and the case during the Nixon administration when they tried to punish journalists for publishing the Pentagon papers about the Vietnam War. The Supreme Court ultimately struck down the argument that national security was put at risk with the publishing of the Pentagon papers. Justice Hugo Black wrote this in the First Amendment. The founding fathers gave the free press the protection it must have to fulfill its essential role in our democracy.

17:54The press was to serve the governed, not the governors. The government's power to censor the press was abolished so that the press would remain forever free to censure the government. The press was protected so that it could bear the secrets of government and inform the people. Only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government. Are there, in fact, parallels in these cases? There are. And fortunately for the plaintiffs, there are even more recent parallels. and so recent that some of the existing case law was actually decided or before this same judge. So, and no surprise, those cases are cited heavily.

18:33And if we look at the First Amendment issue, because due process really is the lead argument here, but once you get into the First Amendment, the attorney himself set it for the plaintiffs, and I happen to agree, this is about a textbook, a case of what's called viewpoint discrimination. So, for example, a government or a legislature can say, hey, no loud music in this town after 10 o 'clock. That's probably fine. But what they can't do is say, hey, no smooth jazz after 10 o 'clock at night. Everything else is fine. We just don't like smooth jazz. That's viewpoint discrimination. And any time you see the government discriminating against a particular viewpoint, the specific speech, it is likely, likely to be overturned or to be struck down by a court.

19:14Let's go back to Ryan. Ryan, we're hearing the hearing just wrapped. How long do you think will the judge deliberate before handing down a decision? Yeah, that's right. I'm looking at our notes from our own Gary Grumbach here from inside the courtroom. It just wrapped just a few minutes ago. The judge says, quote, I'll try to get you an answer as soon as I can. In the last minutes of that hearing there, we really heard the plaintiffs, the media organizations, through their lawyer basically stressing, emphasizing really the need for a speedy decision here because, you know, there are all these important and urgent matters.

19:48They noticed we're at war. World leaders are coming to Washington. There's these big AI discussions. and said that the pool is super important because of the television pool giving access to so many news organizations. That's how so many Americans get access to the president. We've seen some of the consequences of not having that pool coverage over those past few days, including when there was footage aired of Donald Trump speaking, but no one being able to hear what he was actually saying. And so they're really emphasizing the important and essential nature that the pool and that journalists are playing here and hoping for a speedy decision from the court.

20:23All right. Well, Ryan, we know you'll keep checking your phone run right back to the camera. If, in fact, a decision is handed down, Ryan and Danny, thanks so much to both of you. We really appreciate it. And we are following that here in closely and we'll bring you any major updates as we get them. Coming up, going for broke. Republicans are dumping more money than ever into reliably red states in the final weeks before the midterm elections. Plus, NBC News sits down with Cuba's foreign minister after President Trump threatened the communist regime in his U.N. speech, calling it a failed state that will fall.

20:58Our own Andrea Mitchell will bring us the highlights from that interview. Stay with us. You're watching Meet the Press now.

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22:35Welcome back. Back less than six weeks from the midterms, Republican aligned groups are pouring money into reliably red states as some candidates scramble to distance themselves from the president and unpopular White House policies. Politico reporting that since August 1st, more than one hundred and ten million dollars in ad bookings have gone toward Republican held districts. So red that Trump won them by double digits in 2024. for. Joining me now to break this down is the panel Heidi Heitkamp, former Democratic senator from North Dakota, and Matt Gorman, Republican strategist and an NBC News contributor.

23:12Thanks to both of you for joining me, Matt. Let me go to you first. I just want to get your reaction to this surge of money in reliably red states. We're talking about Texas, Ohio, where Trump won by pretty wide margins last election. What do you make of it? Well, look, neither of those states are a surprise. I've been watching Ohio, Iowa. The Midwest is a trouble spot and has been for a couple months now. Texas has had its own problems for months ever since Ken Paxton became the nominee. We knew we were going to have to spend a lot of money. But what I'm also watching for is when I was at the NRCC in 2018, you started to see states, even on the outside of that, start to bubble up.

23:51And they might not be tied, but they get within five or get within 10. And you put money into those states as an insurance policy so that those states that are within 10 don't get within two. I'm watching for that next. Well, let me have you weigh in, Senator Heitkamp, and the fact that Democrats have this cash disadvantage. What do you make of that in the state of play right now? You know, I always go back to my race. I had plenty of money and I still lost by quite a bit. And so at some point, message is much more important than money. And right now the message is Donald Trump has messed up this economy and there's nothing that he's doing that's going to fix it.

24:31And so if you want change, you've got to throw the bums out. But going back to Matt's point, when you look at the interim, even before the war in Iran, even before the spike in oil prices and diesel prices, the Republicans were losing the off election counts by plus 12. That's unprecedented. And so if you take a race in Ohio and you say Sherrod only lost, Sherrod Brown only lost by three or four percent, even if that trend continues, he's going to win in Ohio. And so I think they were they have a headwind to begin with. Then this war started and the economy turned even more sour for American consumers.

25:13And now they're really stuck because they've done nothing to push back against this president. Now they're trying to distance themselves. it's too little and it's too late. OK, Matt, is it too little, too late? What do you make of what the senators say? Well, campaigns matter. I mean, look, you know, Heidi ran a good campaign her first time around. That's why she was able to defy gravity in a red state. And she won her Senate seat in 2018 and caught up with her. And that could happen with some of these with some of these races as well. But look, good campaigns, a Brian Fitzpatrick, a Mike Lawler, they know from the minute they're elected or reelected, just like Heidi did, that you're going to have a tough race the next cycle and good campaigns and good candidates matter.

25:54And you need to raise the money along with that. What you see now, the problem is, is many times tough candidates that aren't as good and might be red states or slightly red states need more money to overcome a good candidate. And remember, Ohio is just for two years. So putting Sherrod Brown in for six, much different proposition than only for two. He's up for next cycle anyway. Matt, let me just follow up with you, though. I want to show a graphic of the number of Republicans who are distancing themselves in ways big and small from President Trump's policies. Largely, you're not seeing anyone come out and bash the president directly.

26:31But what do you make of these cracks? Are they more than a crack? Is it starting to be a divide? What do you make of this these numbers, Matt? I don't believe they're all created equal, right? Tom Tillis is not running for reelections. Murkowski and Collins, that's an asset, especially Collins running against the president. Same with John Curtis. But look, you know, certainly, for example, Ashley Hinson in Iowa. I mean, that is going to be a battleground. We're sitting here on election night about 40 days from now. How goes Iowa when it's House Senate governor is going to tell us a lot about this country.

27:06But what I will say is this also, too. If you're breaking with the president just now, it's a lot harder than if you were really trying to be independent a year ago. I think that credibility also matters. Just ask Susan Collins. Well, Senator Heidkamp, look, we're talking about the growing number of Republicans who are calling for an end to the war, including Ashley Hinson in Iowa. Our latest NBC News poll shows voters are less likely to vote for a candidate that supports the war. So, and I know you're saying it's too little too late, but how do you think Democrats should play this moment? What should their strategy be?

27:41In other words, I think they need to remind people that there have been votes on whether this war should continue for a long time. And a lot of these candidates who are now coming to this vote or coming to this announcement in their campaigns didn't vote that way. And so it is there's a disingenuousness to what they're actually saying and what they're actually doing. And again, you can't like Matt just said, you can't come to this and say, oh, now I disagree with the president six weeks before the midterm and you guys might throw me out. You needed to differentiate yourself a long time ago. And they had an opportunity with votes on the war, did not take that opportunity.

28:23I want to get both of you to weigh in on what we're all going to be watching tomorrow, which is this meeting between President Trump and President Xi Jinping, this state visit. Matt, as you know, even some Republicans critical of the optics of this. President Trump trying to paint Democrats as the Communist Party and yet meeting with President Xi. What are you going to be watching for, Matt? And what are the potential pitfalls, in your opinion? What I'm watching for is very simple. I mean, even when I worked for Mitt Romney in 2012, he was a China hawk and talked a lot about going up against China.

28:59You will never, ever lose votes by making China an antagonist and talking tough on China. So if he can go in there and make Xi a credible adversary and really credibly make him an opponent, that will help him. If it's a little bit of softness and they're buddy-buddy, that could be tough for Republicans on the campaign trail. Senator, what will you be watching for? And again, one of the issues we anticipate will be on the agenda, not just the Iran war, but also, of course, AI. The question, could there be any type of agreement on any area of AI? What are you going to watch for? The only way this makes any political sense is if you can come with some kind of capitulation from China and basically announce that you got the better end of a deal.

29:46That's not how Trump does this. And I think his personality is to basically embrace someone and say, you're my good friend. You're my buddy. Look at how well we got along. That's not what the American people want to see. Just like Matt said, they want to see you take them to the mat and say, you need to stop stealing intellectual property. You need to start buying our products and not being a bully on the international stage. You need to do everything you can to repudiate any aggressive activity against Taiwan. Guess what's not going to happen? Those things are not going to happen. And so this is an optic problem, I think, again, and it takes you off a midterm domestic economic message.

30:25And, you know, people don't vote on on foreign policy unless it's a war that gave you high oil prices. So it's just not a good use of his time this week. Well, I know everyone's going to be watching very closely. Thank you both for the preview and the great conversation. Senator Heitkamp and Matt Gorman really appreciate it. Up next, the next frontier. Here, I'll interview two bipartisan lawmakers who are working together to confront the dangers of advanced AI as the rise of superintelligence comes into focus on the world stage. Stay with us on Meet the Press now.

31:02To every clinician finishing notes at 9 p.m., there is a faster way. Whisperflow is a voice-to-text app. You talk, it types in your EHR, your email, anywhere you type. Say the progress note, the referral letter, the patient instructions, and it comes out clean and formatted with your terminology spelled right. Four times faster than typing and HIPAA ready. Whisper Flow is free. Get it at whisperflow.ai. That's W-I-S-P-R flow dot A-I. Jimmy Conrad here and I have something to put on your radar. The core short from Viore. Because after getting my first pair, I was hooked. They work for everything that I like doing.

31:43Soccer, tennis, hoops, and lifting weights to them a few. And they're unbelievably comfortable, which is why I wear them doing everything else. They are designed to work for whatever your day throws at you. For our listeners, they're offering 20 % off your first purchase. So head to viori.com slash footy. That's V-U-O-R-I dot com slash F-O-O-T-Y. Exclusions apply. Visit the site for full details. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is?

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32:28Welcome back. Lawmakers are debating ideas about possible guardrails for artificial intelligence. As industry leaders issue dire warnings that the new technology is advancing too quickly, Despite those warnings, President Trump has pushed back on calls for regulation, saying in his U.N. speech yesterday he will not stifle the growth of AI and saying, quote, we're going to encourage it, not rein it in. Joining me now for the very latest edition of our Common Ground series is Democratic Congresswoman Lori Trahan of Massachusetts and Republican Congressman Jay Obernolte of California. Earlier this summer, they introduced legislation to establish more federal oversight of the development and deployment of advanced artificial intelligence, including requiring AI companies to undergo audits by independent organizations.

33:17It would also allow the Commerce Department to suspend technologies if they pose a, quote, imminent catastrophic risk. Thanks to both of you for being here. I really appreciate it. Representative Trahan, let me start with you. There has been a lot of discussion about how the government should regulate AI. We've already seen instances of AI agents, as you know, going rogue. What do you think your legislation accomplishes and does it go far enough? Well, certainly the Frontier Act is the strongest AI safety framework introduced at any level of government. It does four things. Transparency, the biggest developers have to write down how they manage catastrophic risk, publish it and actually follow it.

34:01No more black box. Mandatory incident reporting. You know, if a model escapes, you know, its domain, like the hugging face attack, the company has 72 hours to report it to the government. Not whether they feel like it or not. Independent checks. So the largest labs get ongoing assessments from licensed outside organizations. So they're not checking their own work. And finally, the kill switch. If a model poses an imminent risk of catastrophe, the government has the option to stepping in. None of that exists today. Right now, we're working on the honor system, and that's what compelled Congressman Obernolte and I to get to work on something bipartisan so that we have guardrails in place.

34:44Congressman Obernolte, let me turn to you. As you all know, the House is not planning to be back in session until after the midterms. Have you received any assurances from leadership that once the House is back, they will work to move your legislation forward? Well, I think leadership on both sides of the aisle in the House has been committed to meaningful AI legislation for the last couple of years. The problem is sometimes the wheels of progress turn frustratingly slowly in the House. So it is our job, Congressman Trahan and I and our six bipartisan co-leads to make sure that our legislation is in a position where it's got broad industry buy in.

35:24It's been vetted. We have language that's workable and we have something that can pass on a bipartisan basis. And if we can put that together, I'm pretty confident that we can pass this out of the House through Congress and get it on the president's desk. Congresswoman, as you know, one of the criticisms of Congress is that lawmakers are trying to regulate AI without really having a firm grip of the technology. Do you believe you have a firm grip of how AI is used? Do you use it yourself? Yeah, I do use it myself. And I've heard that argument in the last couple of weeks. But look, members of Congress are asked to ramp up on issues that we have to govern all of the time.

36:05I'm not so concerned with that. If anything, I think so many people are rushing to put guardrails in place for AI because we're living with the effects of not doing that for social media. And so while, you know, Congressman Oberynolte and I are probably pretty conversant and Claude and Gemini and ChatGPT, I don't think it's a requirement. I think right now it's the political will to make sure Congress gets off the sidelines and put some basic guardrails in place before it's too late. Well, Congressman Obernolte, weigh in there. Do you agree? Are you confident that lawmakers, that you yourself have a strong enough grasp of this technology to craft legislation that properly creates guardrails?

36:47Yeah, well, we had a bipartisan AI task force in the last Congress that worked for an entire year in 25 different hearings to put together the plan that we're trying to enact. And we came up with a nearly 300-page report that was unanimously approved by all 24 members of our task force. And we started with 24 members who knew very little about AI. In fact, I asked the speaker when he asked me if I would share the task force to not send me a bunch of technologists. I wanted a diversity of opinion and background, and I wanted to be able to surface problems early before we got legislation to the floor.

37:23And I think one of the greatest things that the task force accomplished is that we now have this core nucleus of members of Congress who are deeply educated on the issue of artificial intelligence. And that should give everyone some hope. I mean, as Congressman Trahan said, we legislate on a wide variety of different topics. So this is not new. There are quite often that we need to wade into an issue that is very technically complex. So, you know, this is, I think, proof that members of Congress can be up to the task. Well, Representative Olberonzi, let me follow up with you, because, as you know, President Trump has rejected calls for AI regulation.

37:58He's even referred to some of the alarms that have been sounded as a hoax. Do you think the concerns about AI potentially getting out of control are a hoax? Well, I think what the president is warning against is the dangers of over-regulation. Those are some concerns that I personally share. No one wants to over-regulate AI. We don't spend enough time talking about the beneficial things that AI can do for our society, our economy, and our democracy. We want to make sure we enable those things. And to do that means not to overregulate. But we think that there is a balance to be struck here. And I mean, to be clear, when the president's talking about a hoax, he's talking about these whistleblowers that have come forward saying that AI is going to kill everyone in humanity within the next 10 years.

38:44You know, we don't worry so much about that, something out of a Terminator movie. I worry very much about the use of AI by malicious human actors to do things like steal people's money through cyber theft and cyber fraud. We're already seeing that. I worry about it in the hands of our geopolitical adversaries to hack our critical infrastructure. I worry about its use to spread mis - and disinformation in our society, to undermine our trust in each other and our democracy itself. That's already occurring. So taken together, those things are extremely consequential. That's not a hoax. Congressman Trahan, weigh in on that point.

39:16Are you concerned that AI within the next decade could have the capacity to destroy all of humanity? Well, I can tell you the last couple of weeks have really created a tipping point in the conversation around AI safety. You know, when you have safety researchers leaving their companies, you know, the threat report that Anthropic published, certainly we were all briefed on, was alarming. And then the CEOs themselves basically admitting that they can't promise control of these models. I think that has really shifted the conversation among members. I know Congressman Obernolte and I have received a lot of phone calls, a lot of new co-sponsors of our legislation.

39:56The reality is we just can't afford to wait. There is no law in place right now that makes these companies report when a model breaks loose. There's none that makes them prove that their safety plans work. And there's no law that lets anyone independently check their work. And I think that's table stakes for us. We have to put guardrails in place so that we can keep pace with the technology that is just evolving so much more rapidly than any one of us could have imagined. Well, let me follow up with you quickly, Congresswoman. Your Democratic colleague, Senator Bernie Sanders, Congressman Greg Kassar unveiled new legislation today that would basically create a new federal agency, the Department of Artificial Intelligence, to oversee advanced AI.

40:39Is that an approach you support? Look, I think we come at this at the same place, right? I think these companies are losing control of their models, and they've said so themselves. And so people want to give assurance to the American people that someone's in charge. You know, I think the reason why we took the independent verification approach, we have to build capacity very quickly. Now, that doesn't, And that's not to say that down the road, this may require a different regulatory model. But right now, where there's nothing, we have to, one, preserve innovation for the smaller companies, ones that are not these frontier labs, but also meet the moment of these large frontier labs, these models that are capable of catastrophic risk.

41:27We have to put basic guardrails in place. And so, you know, we've seen a lot of activity in the AI space recently. I also think the approach that Congressman Obernolte and I have taken is one that's bipartisan for a reason. We need to get the votes in the House, the Senate and have it be signed by the president. And so this I think this bill is best positioned to move in this Congress. All right. Congressman Trahan, Congressman Obernolte, thank you both so much. We will continue to track your legislation once the House is back. Really appreciate it. Coming up after the break, we are going to hear from Cuba's foreign minister.

42:02after his country's delegation walked out of the U.N. General Assembly in the middle of President Trump's speech. Keep it right here on Meet the Press now.

42:19Welcome back. Cuba is responding to President Trump's United Nations speech in which he called the country a failed state and doubled down on threats against the island's regime. Here's some of what the president said yesterday. My administration is also seeking a fundamental change in the situation in Cuba where the communist regime is under great pressure, the biggest pressure they've ever been under. It's an absolutely failed state. Communism will never be coming to America, but freedom will be coming to Cuba. The Cuban delegation walked out of his speech in protest. Secretary of State Marco Rubio was asked today by NBC's Andrea Mitchell what the president meant when he said freedom will come to Cuba.

43:07Take a listen to that exchange. Very substantial changes. Something like Venezuela, changing the regime with some military extraction. There's an indictment against the former president. There are other actions. Would you rule that out? If there was a threat to the national security of the United States, the president has both the power and the obligation to address it. There are people there that I believe that you can work with if they are willing to put the country on a path towards political and economic freedom and the process that will get us to that ultimate goal. Although that will take some time to get there.

43:37Joining me now is the one and only NBC News Chief Washington Correspondent and Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent Andrea Mitchell. Andrea, fantastic exchange with the Secretary of State. You also just got an interview with Cuba's foreign minister. Congratulations on that. What was his reaction to what we heard from President Trump and the Secretary of State? He called President Trump's speech very aggressive and complained about the naval blockade, which he calls an energy siege. Let's listen. Cuba is not a threat to the U.S. national security. It's people, it's national interest. The threat is the economic blockade.

44:19I think the American people would be very interested in knowing what the situation is, the humanitarian impact of the naval blockade. If you could describe the blackouts, the effect on people. It is painful, very painful. It is a true act of collective punishment. It is an act of genocide, according to international conventions, prohibiting both crimes. And, Kristen, the foreign minister did confirm that there have been back-channel talks between the U.S. and Cuba, but he said they have not been productive so far. Rubio has said that they're willing to talk, prefer to talk than taking some other more forceful action, but that so far he doesn't think that the people in charge of Cuba are productive.

45:12He thinks there are others who might be, but not those in the regime. Well, and that is the big question. Who is actually in charge in Cuba, Andrea? How seriously are they taking the president saying that he believes Cuba will be a failed state, something he said repeatedly? Well, they say that that is aggressive and wrong, that it is not a national security threat to the U.S. But at the same time, they are really suffering. They say that they're making changes, but not the kind of privatization and certainly not the political changes to the communist regime. More than one party rule, like opposition parties permitting more protests, that kind of change.

45:53That's not something that they have been considering. And just Andrea, what was for you another big takeaway from your interview? I think the fact that there have been talks is significant. We saw really and probably the CIA director. There was a photo opportunity when John Radcliffe was down in Havana. But the fact that the blackouts are so profound and that the humanitarian situation is so dire. Hospitals, schools, no energy, night after night. It's been that way. I mean, not this severe at all. There have been blackouts before and shortages. But there have also been moments of great press, you know, a better prosperity during normalization.

46:33But for years, it's been really the people who are suffering. And there are reports that the elites, the officials are getting are getting energy and that the people are not. The final 30 seconds we have left. What is the state of any talks between the U.S. and Iran? Well, that is, in fact, not as what was advertised. The president's suggesting that there had been talks. Steve Whitcoff did not contradict him and actually confirmed that. But now what we learned and what Rubio explained, they were through mediators. It was the same Whitcoff and Kushner speaking through the calories, not direct talks.

47:12So still, by all accounts, no end in sight to this war. Andrea Mitchell, congratulations on a great day of pressing world leaders. We appreciate it. Thanks for bringing it to us. Still to come, the urgent fight for freedom. My conversation with the son of imprisoned pro-democracy Hong Kong activist Jimmy Lai as President Trump prepares to host China's Xi Jinping. This is Meet the Press Now. Stay with us.

47:43Welcome back. As President Trump is set to host Chinese President Xi Jinping in Washington, Human rights activists are urging the president to raise the case of Jimmy Lai. The Hong Kong pro-democracy activist was sentenced earlier this year to 20 years in prison on charges of sedition and colluding with foreign forces, accusations he denies. Lai, a media publisher, was a leading figure in the 2019 pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong and a prominent critic of the Chinese Communist Party. I recently sat down with Jimmy Lai's son, Sebastian Lai, to talk about his father's case ahead of President Xi's visit.

48:25As we're having this conversation, we're so sorry to learn that your sister, who is 30 years old, has been diagnosed with cancer. And that is adding urgency to the calls for your father to be released. What is your message to President Trump? What is your message to Chinese authorities? please. My message is, you know, obviously this is a horrible situation to be in. I'm so incredibly worried for her and for my father. My father, who, you know, he's been in solitary for the last five years. I think the thing he wants to do the most is just to be next to my sister and be there and hold her hand through this incredibly hard time.

49:07I can't even imagine how he must feel not being able to do that from a prison cell in Hong Kong, given that his health is failing as well. The message to the Chinese is he's no threat. At this point, you're just torturing a 78-year-old, soon-to-be 79-year-old man. You've had him in there for five years, almost six years, taking everything away from him. And he might die at any moment. And by which point the president of the United States has asked Xi Jinping twice already for my father's release. This will be the third time on American soil where Xi Jinping would be a guest. President Trump has called your father's case a tough one.

49:55What do you think he means by that? You know, I think it is. I'm sure it is a tough case if the president says it is. But I'm fully confident in the president. If there's anybody that can get my father out, you know, President Trump is a person that can do it. And he said in an interview that he doesn't, you know, he's not a man who gives up. So he'll keep fighting for my father. And I'm very grateful for that. What do you hope he will say to President Xi when the two meet, as you say, on American soil? Yeah, I think it's just to tell him that, you know, this is something that has been on the table the last two times.

50:31And it's still not it's still there. It's still outstanding. And, you know, I think for Xi Jinping and the Hong Kong government, this is a my father's a phone call away from being released. This is something that I could do at any moment, really put a 78 year old man in ill health on a plane and send him away. And if they do that, it's it's it's it can only be beneficial for them because my father dying, there would be a travesty. It would be an absolute travesty. I do want to ask you, there's another pro-democracy activist in Hong Kong, Joshua Wong. He was set to be released from prison in January, but now he's facing an extended sentence for up to life in prison, potentially.

51:17He pleaded guilty to foreign collusion under the national security law. What do you make of that? What does it say about the status of democracy right now in Hong Kong? Oh, it's an absolutely horrible time for freedoms in Hong Kong. You mentioned the case of Joshua Wong. He's 30, spent a lot of his 20s in prison. Obviously, does not deserve to. But there's also the case of Zhao Han Tong, Albert Ho, Lei Chuk Yan, and many other people who are, as many people say, the best and brightest of Hong Kong. people who, like my father, have dedicated so much of their lives for the freedoms of their home.

52:04And, you know, none of them deserves to be in prison. And I just, it just breaks my heart to think that, you know, so much has changed in the last six years in Hong Kong, so much, how much worse it has gotten. And just finally, what is the message you want to give to your father if he were listening to this conversation today? What do you want to tell him? There's so many people around the world that are fighting for him. So many people that realizes how important his fight is. I think if I could speak to him, I'll just tell him how incredibly proud I am of him. And how his story has inspired so many people around the world.

52:51and there's people from all different cultures that tell me how inspirational he is. And it's that saying where you don't need to translate courage. It speaks to every person and I'm proud of him and I'll keep fighting for him until I see him again. Well, we thank you for your courage. I know it's an incredibly emotional time. Sebastian Lai, thank you so very much. And our thoughts are going to be with your sister as well. We really appreciate your being here. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. We are back tomorrow with more Meet the Press Now. There's much more ahead on NBC News Now.

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