Meet the Press NOW — September 29

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1:18President Trump, who has largely resisted calls for any regulation, hosted these tech leaders today at the White House to discuss the future of artificial intelligence. He now wants it called superintelligence. Many of those tech leaders have been calling for expanded guardrails and regulation. The president told reporters the meeting was productive. He praised the tech leaders and claimed there was much consensus in what was discussed. The president also saying these tech companies should regulate themselves. If it's the belief of everybody that you're meeting with today that no guardrails, no regulation of AI, superintelligence, as you call it, is necessary?

1:59Well, there's a belief that there should be tremendous self-regulation, and we automatically have regulation with the Department of Justice, the FBI, all of that. But the self-regulation is very important. And then, as we mentioned moments ago, the president taking the unusual step of answering reporters' questions outside the White House on the north side, where typically we don't see him moving about alongside those leaders. The president continued to tout self-regulation and dismissed concerns about the technology safety. Today's meeting comes just hours after the president officially rolled out a new AI-powered government website that you're able to use and once again warned against over-regulating the industry.

2:44This is one more example of why I will never stifle the growth of technology that will be bigger than the industrial revolution. This is why the SI superintelligence is, they're saying bigger than the industrial revolution, far bigger than the internet, not even close. And we see it and we can't stifle it. We're leading now over China and everyone else. And I want to keep it that way. I want to keep it that way. The only way you can keep it that way is to do exactly what we're doing right now. We don't want to stifle growth. So effectively, the president is saying the industry should regulate itself and police itself.

3:24Today also brought new warning signs about A.I.'s capabilities. Consulting firm McKinsey forecasting that A.I. could force 11 million workers into different jobs in the next 10 years. Many of those jobs would be lower paying. And Reuters reports that Anthropic is expected to warn potential IPO investors that advanced AI may pose existential risks to humanity and that it and that its AI models could resist shutdown or conceal or manipulate information as a means of self-preservation of the technology. Similar concerns are what caused OpenAI to announce late yesterday that it is stopping the release of its newest AI model, including that it was showing higher levels of deception.

4:12That comes after other recent incidents of open AI's agents going rogue. The company's CEO, Sam Altman, was asked about pausing the new model today. As the models have gotten more capable, the safety cases that we now use have to be held to a higher and higher standard, and the models can do more. So we will have many great new models to come. But what we have said is that alignment, safety, monitoring, security have to stay way ahead of capabilities. And we have had models in the past where we say this is not quite at the bar we want and we'll make another one and fix it and launch it later. But there's clearly more attention on this now.

4:53And joining me now, NBC News White House correspondent Yamiche Alcindor, who was in that mix with the president asking questions and Kevin Roos, tech journalist and author of the upcoming book. We want to make sure we promote this. The AGI Chronicles, the inside story of the race to create an artificial super intelligence, which is out next week. Now, Yamiche, what have we learned today? And I know there's been a lot of information coming at you in rapid fire about what the president is thinking when it comes to working with these companies in any form of oversight. Well, Kelly, as I'm sure you've shared with the viewers, the president, in a really remarkable moment, came out and spoke to reporters surrounded by these AI tech leaders.

5:34He essentially said that his mind had not changed. And I put that question to him because, obviously, he's been saying multiple times that there don't need to be guard wells for AI. But the president did announce that there's some sort of agreement that was signed at the White House. Take a listen to more of my exchange with the president. Did anything that you heard today, did anything change your mind, given the fact that you said you don't want to see guard wells, you don't want to see AI slow down? Anything that you heard today change your mind on that? Well, I think I'm seeing tremendous self-policing, and they understand that they have to self-police.

6:04And it's very hard for somebody to come outside, get into these, these models are very complex. And again, I believe they're going to be used for the good, and when they're not, we're going to be able to nab them. But there's going to be a tremendous self-policing aspect. We're also thinking about forming a committee of sorts, where we put maybe 10 people on that committee, it could be from that group, so that we can, so the committee can watch over. Now, Kelly, these AI leaders included Dario Amadei, who wrote an essay saying specifically that he thought that AI needed to slow down. So even though the president was really saying that there wasn't that much contradiction between him and these leaders, there is definitely a difference of opinion, though, again, they were very, very hesitant to have any sort of difference of opinion with the president as they were standing on the White House long.

6:55But we know that these AI leaders have said that these AI agents have gone rogue. Some of them have tried to hack government sites. And the president is essentially saying he believes that because of the competition with China, that this, that the United States would be put at a disadvantage if we were to slow down. I also asked the president about data centers, because at this lunch, he came out very in favor of data centers as an issue that's sort of adjacent to AI. He said that he didn't believe that his support of data centers would hurt Republicans in the midterms, even though we've seen a number of Republicans break with the president on this issue.

7:25Definitely good in wanting to see how this issue plays out. I also asked the president about whether or not he was concerned about Republicans breaking with him on a number of other issues, including the war in Iran, the economy, immigration. He said he believes Republicans are united, even though those candidates are breaking for him. The president also noted that he's going to be hitting the campaign trail. So there was a lot of news made today, especially in what I said, again, is really just an extraordinary moment at the White House with the president walking out onto the White House driveway, which is something that we really have never seen, almost never seen the president do.

7:55He's done it a couple of times, but certainly not anywhere in the recent future, a recent past rather. Kelly. It is extraordinary. And we talk about a lot of extraordinary moments when it comes to the Trump era, but also to have the president with the speaker of the House and these leaders of this extraordinary industry. It is an unusual moment. There's a lot for all of us to digest about what the president said. And you had some very noteworthy questions there. So thank you for that, Yamiche. Let me now turn to you, Kevin, as someone who has extensively reported on these warnings. How significant is this moment?

8:30What do you hear in the president's comments? And also, how do you balance that against what some of these tech leaders were saying? Yeah, it's really interesting. There was an incident or a gathering during the Biden administration that I wrote about in my book, where many of these same leaders were called to the White House to sign on to a series of voluntary commitments about AI and how to govern it safely. And in that instance, President Biden actually entered the room and said, we've got our eye on you, meaning we, the government, are watching what you, the AI industry, are doing because we think it could be dangerous.

9:05This time, President Trump is saying, we don't have our eye on you. You got to have your eyes on each other. And this sort of group regulation, this self-regulation that he talks about, it's just interesting to think about how that would work in any other industry. We don't have Delta Airlines regulating United Airlines. We don't have, you know, Coke regulating Pepsi. That's just not how any of this works. So what the industry has been asking for, which is a strong stance from the government on how this technology should be regulated, I think what they've heard today is they're not going to get it from this administration.

9:36And even for conservatives in elective office who are maybe the most reluctant to have more regulation, there is an acceptance that having corporations police each other is just functionally difficult in the real world. So that certainly stood out. And today, I'd like to ask you about what Sam Altman was saying. He's not at the White House today. He had a representative there. He's at a separate conference and he spoke to CNBC about an idea of pacing versus pause. Here's what he said, and I'd like to get your thoughts on that. I think this idea of pacing is really important. It's not just like stop it because, you know, we don't want smarter models.

10:11Of course, we want better models. It is make sure that we improve the areas we need to confidently and safely continue with progress. Now, when it comes to the context of pausing and we heard the president's concerns about China wanting to race forward, what stands out to you about where the industry is with this and what is most likely to happen? The industry is really spooked right now. I think the hugging face incident that came up a couple times in the coverage today really set the industry on edge, made them think that maybe we have these rogue models that we can't trust. And if we can't trust them, that also means that our customers can't trust them.

10:48So I do think that the companies are starting to worry that all of this is just moving too fast. And the role that they want the government to play, that they've asked the government to play, is to create what's called a coordination mechanism, basically build a way for us all to kind of agree that we are all going to slow down and institute better guardrails on these models. And the government has said, no, it's up to you guys to do that. And so we'll see if the industry comes up with its own version of that, a slowdown or coordination mechanism. But right now that doesn't exist. And a lot of AI leaders are thinking that it should.

11:22So who could the referee be if not the federal government when these competitors are talking about this. And you have these superstar CEOs. So you've got the Sam Altman's and the Dario Amade's who take different positions in this. And you've written about some of the tensions there. What do you think stands out to lawmakers? And obviously, Dario Amade was there with the president today, Sam Altman's company represented, but he was elsewhere. What do you think the feud means to the future of AI and how it affects workers and everyone else. Yeah, I think the thing that is hard for politicians, maybe who aren't plugged into this issue to understand, is that these companies are engaged in a bitter feud and race with each other.

12:05They have very different ideas about how to develop this technology. Mark Zuckerberg and Dario Amadei and Sam Altman and Elon Musk, they all have issues with each other and with the way that each other is developing this technology. So out of this, I hope that one of the things that just comes together is a more regular meeting of the minds with these AI leaders, some of them who, you know, who blatantly hate each other and have for years. But I hope that they are able to work together to create and develop this technology safely, because as we've seen today, the government is not going to step in and stop them.

12:40Let me ask you about what one lawmaker is saying with all of this. So there's an op-ed out today by Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri. He argues that AI companies should be held accountable if their technology commits a crime and announced legislation that would impose criminal penalties for failing to build in the proper safeguards we've been talking about into their tech. Is that the kind of, it's not regulation, it's legislation. Is that the kind of thing that could change the industry and adjust how these companies carry out their technology? I think it is probably necessary but not sufficient safeguard.

13:19So we have product liability laws already on the books in this country. If you release a medicine that hurts people or kills people, their families can sue you and recover some damages. That's not all we do to regulate the sale of pharmaceuticals in this country. We also have the FDA. We also have clinical trials. We also have industry safety standards. So I think, yes, there can be some role for sort of product liability law in keeping the industry in check, but it is not going to be enough. We've never just relied on that alone. These are complex issues, and you are really at the forefront of reporting on that.

13:58Thank you for bringing your expertise to us. I hope we can have you back again soon. Thanks so much for having me. And coming up, the drive to decision day. NBC speaks to battleground voters about what matters most to them as they prepare to cast their ballots in just five weeks. It's really coming up. Plus, could it all come down to Iowa? We'll dive into one of the most surprising Senate battlegrounds, perhaps, with Steve Kornacki at the big board. You're going to want to hear what Steve has to say. And you're watching Meet the Press Now.

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16:12Welcome back. In poll after poll, the economy and cost of living are top of mind for voters heading into the midterm elections. It's also what voters from New Jersey to Nebraska told our pal NBC's Jonathan Allen as he drove 1 ,800 miles through some key battleground states to hear more about what everyday Americans are thinking and feeling ahead of November. In Pennsylvania's 7th District, home to one of the most competitive House races this season, John spoke to one Republican voter struggling with the cost of health care. The 7th District in Pennsylvania's Lehigh Valley is the swingiest in the Keystone State.

16:51Ryan McKenzie, a first-term Republican congressman, won by one point two years ago. In Nazareth, I meet Rich, a three-time Trump voter and a small business owner. I'm a type 1 diabetic. Last year, I think I paid$632 for insurance because of subsidies. I know the Republicans don't like those subsidies, but you know what? It was working. I had$632. I got a notice in the mail that my insurance was going up to$14.50 per month. And I'm asking both parties, how is that affordable? So sometimes you give. You know, I do real estate. And a good negotiation is you get some of what you want. I get some of what I want.

17:32We all walk away happy and a little sad. That's a good negotiation. But our government is stalled. I thought Rich was fascinating. Because I think he represents a strain of voters that is real and important to both Trump and the Republican Party. And it may be a little bit at risk in these midterms. And joining me now on set with more from his really incredible reporting trip is NBC News senior national politics reporter John Allen. John, glad you didn't bring that baseball cap in here to the studio. But it was very authentic in the field. We heard from through your conversations why it's so important to go see voters, because that was a very thoughtful, reasoned response from the gentleman talking about the cost of health care and how it's at odds with some of his political views and how the government's responding to him.

18:29What stands out to you? So that's it, Kelly. I mean, everybody's hurting. Not everybody, everybody, but most Americans are hurting right now. Things are cost more. Gas costs more. Groceries cost more. Health insurance. His health insurance went up to$17 ,000 a year from about$7 ,000 a year. After tax money. He's got to earn more than that to even pay that bill. Right. So, I mean, you have to make a lot of money to not feel that, to not see that as a loss. So that was the first thing that really stood out. The other thing is he was early in the trip in the 7th District of Pennsylvania, sort of close to the East Coast, the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania, a three-time Trump voter who also talked about how he was upset about the Iran war, how he felt the president broke his promises on not going to war and on costs, bringing down inflation.

19:17And so he was the first of many voters that I spoke to who had voted for Trump who are now very critical of him. Some of them are not abandoning him. But you get to hard to understand when you hear about polls that say Republicans are not enthusiastic and vice versa. Democrats are very eager to go vote. Yes. And so let's go farther west on your trip. So you talk to voters at the Iowa State Fair. And I want to play a portion of that from what is a digital documentary. Wait for more on that in just a bit. We arrive at the Iowa State Fair in Des Moines. There's plenty of distractions here. Pie-eating contests, a butter cow.

19:57But even here, it's hard for folks to forget about the economy for long. Here we go in three, two, one, go! Are you a Democrat? I align more that way, yes. But, like, as far as, like, I don't think they're doing a great job. Do you feel the pinch of inflation? Man, I'm self-employed. I own a business in like 10 years ago, if I was making what I'm making now, I'd be living really well and like ends aren't meeting. Craig Rath is a farmer and a three-time Trump voter. He still supports the president, but is feeling the impact of Trump's trade war. What do you need? What could Washington do for you right now?

20:38I don't want the government to say, here's a paycheck because, you know, because of the tariffs. You know, we're being hurt right now, and I'd just assume governments stay out of it if they could. I want to make money the old-fashioned way because I earned it. So maybe neither one, maybe neither the subsidy nor the tariff? I like the safety net, okay, but I don't want it. I got you. I understand that. Okay. It's like when you're riding a bike for the first time and your dad's got his hand on the back You want them to let go, but you also don't want to fall. That's right. You know, that's probably why we probably have survived through some tougher times, because the government has been there for us.

21:27And those comments are in Red Iowa about where they feel government can play a role in their lives. What's your big takeaway from all the people you met, the things you learned? Is Iowa up for grabs? Iowa's absolutely up for grabs. The state's up for grabs at the Senate level, at the gubernatorial level. And definitely two, maybe three of the House districts are up for grabs. So what I would just say, in addition to that real quick, Kelly, is every issue that people are talking about is one that ties back to the economy. And people are upset about that economy. And typically that is very bad news for the party in power.

21:58Historically, that is always what we see. John, your travels were enlightening. Thank you for making the trip and for driving all those miles. You can see more of what is really great reporting here. I can't say enough about what this means in campaign season to be able to hear from voters. John and his team put together this mini documentary. Just scan this QR code that you see on the screen right now, and that'll take you there with all the information. And as we mentioned, Democrats see an opportunity to flip a seat in reliably red Iowa as they hope to regain the majority in November. The Hawkeye State matchup features Democratic State Representative Josh Turek and Republican Congresswoman Ashley Hinson.

22:36Turek leads in one recent poll, but Hinson is ahead in another. Both leads are within the margin of error. So joining me now to make sense of that, the man who knows the numbers, NBC News chief data analyst Steve Kornacki. So, Steve, tell us, what is it going to take for Democrats to flip this seat? And what do Republicans look to in these numbers as well? Yeah, Kelly, I think what Republicans look to is the fact that Iowa is sort of a unique state in that I think it's been more politically transformed in their favor during the Trump era, arguably than any other state in the country. And Republicans are trying to hold on to just enough of what they've gained in Iowa in the last decade.

23:15Democrats, meanwhile, think the recipe is there. Everything you were just talking about there with John, the recipe is there to roll back those gains Republicans made. So here is the Senate matchup. Remember, Joni Ernst, the Republican incumbent, not running for reelection. So if the Democrats win this, this would be a flip. This would be one of the net gain of four that they need if they're going to flip control of the Senate. But when I say Iowa's been transformed, this is what I mean. It's hard to remember now, but think back. This was Barack Obama in 2008 over John McCain. He won the state.

23:42He won the state handily, basically by 10 points. In fact, he carried it twice. In fact, six out of seven presidential elections between the late 80s and Obama's reelection in 2012. Iowa was a democratic state. It was competitive, but I'd say, if anything, it was a democratic-leaning state. And look in particular here at how Obama got that win in 2008 here. The eastern half of the state, this is the Mississippi River, those old industrial sort of Mississippi River cities there. Davenport, Dubuque, Clinton, Burlington. He swept the Mississippi River. Really eastern Iowa here. Heavy, heavy Obama country.

24:15Look what the state looked like by the last Trump campaign in 2024. Just five, one, two, three, four, five Democratic counties left. Barack Obama won 53 counties in the state in 2008. By 2024, Kamala Harris won just five. Iowa contains more counties that went for Obama, then flipped to Trump than any other state in the country. You can see, look, I just showed you how Obama swept the Mississippi River counties. Look, it completely transformed. Trump swept them in 2024. All the Democrats are left with in Iowa after those three Trump campaigns are sort of predictable places demographically. This is Story County, big college county, Iowa State.

24:54This is where northern Iowa is. This is where the University of Iowa is. Three big college counties plus. Polk County, where Des Moines is. A lot of professional class, you know, college educated voters. That's been the one constituency that's been moving towards Democrats in the Trump era. And then Cedar Rapids, again, white collar professionals, professional class voters. These are the only five counties Democrats had left as of 2024. So if the Democrats are actually going to flip Iowa here. Obviously, they need massive margins here, but what they need to do is they need to win back that demographic, that blue-collar demographic, older blue-collar voters.

25:30That's where the bottom fell out for them in Iowa and in places like it around the country. It means pay attention to a place like this, Clinton County. This is one of those Mississippi River counties here. Give some context here on Clinton County. In fact, I think I can show you what it looked like in 2024. Yeah, Trump won it by almost 20 points in 2024. Barack Obama in 2012 against Mitt Romney in this county. Barack Obama won it by 23 points. This went from Obama by 23 and 12 years later, Trump by nearly 20, more than a 40 point shift to Trump and the Republicans. Can the Democrats wind back a lot?

26:06They have to wind back almost all of that Trump advantage in a place like Clinton County if they're going to win Iowa and take Iowa potentially to flip the Senate. Steve, that's so interesting to see what it takes, what locations, where are neighbors talking to neighbors and the reality that big swings have happened before. Is this that kind of year? That's what we'll wait to find out. Appreciate all of your analysis there. Thank you so much. And up next, the Iowa Hawkeyes actually played an unexpected role in a very separate matter on Capitol Hill today. A hearing as special former special counsel Jack Smith was clashing with Senate Republicans.

26:43He was testifying. We'll explain what that all means. So please keep it here on Meet the Press Now.

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28:26Welcome back. Former special counsel Jack Smith testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee today for what you won't be surprised to hear was a politically charged hearing on his investigation into President Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. In his opening remarks, Smith defended his decision to bring those charges against President Trump. I stand by my decisions as special counsel, including my decision to bring charges against President Trump. I made those decisions without regard to President Trump's political association, activities, beliefs, or candidacy in the 2024 presidential election.

29:08Our investigation developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that President Trump engaged in serious crimes against our nation. If asked whether to prosecute a former president today based on the same facts, I would do so regardless of whether that president was a Republican or a Democrat. Republicans on the committee accused Smith of abusing his power as a prosecutor, which he denies, while also fiercely criticizing his decision to gather lawmakers' phone records. That's just the data, not the conversation content, as part of his investigation. Joining me now is NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Julie Serkin.

29:52And, of course, These charges were filed and then later dropped because the president's back in office and there are no cases against a sitting president. This also had a very clear partisan markings during this this hearing today. Did we learn anything new about Jack Smith's investigation into President Trump? Because much of what's involved in that is under seal in Florida. And the short answer, Kelly, to your question is no. And as one Democratic senator who was in the committee room questioning Jack Smith put it to me, this whole hearing was a moot point, a moot issue. And I pressed plenty of Democrats on the committee.

30:27Is there anything to this idea that maybe Americans just don't trust our systems, the Department of Justice? It's been weaponized. The president made a good argument of that, of course. And this Democratic senator said no, that clearly what the crux of this hearing should have been about is talking about January 6th, talking about what happened that day, but also restoring professionalism to the agency. And that, Kelly, just did not happen. Republicans, as you mentioned, focused on those records, trying to pick and prod whether Jack Smith did anything inappropriate. But he completely stood by that investigation, including obtaining the call logs and some text messages he said were relevant to his investigation.

31:05I also want to play a moment from the hearing that's getting a lot of attention. It deals with perhaps a tactical move by one of the Republican senators. Let's play that. Did you go to an NBA game between the Golden State Warriors and the Atlanta Hawks on February 3rd, 2024? What city would that be in? Atlanta. No. The day before Fannie Willis came clean with her affair with the prosecutor, you know, the Atlanta prosecutor that was also trying to get Trump the next day, were you in Atlanta? I do not believe so. Okay. Did you ever go to Atlanta during your time as special counsel?

31:45I really don't think so. It's possible I flew through the Atlanta airport on the way to Florida, but I do not have a recollection of going to Atlanta. I definitely did not go to a Hawks game. I'm sure that is Maryland playing Iowa, I think February of 2024. But again, you can check that out if that's what we're talking about. Iowa. Is it the Hawkeyes? Yes. Could it then be that University of Iowa is the Hawkeyes? Could that be it?

32:21Oh, that's quite a moment. It was unfolding painfully in real time where there was this question about what was the senator actually asking? What was he trying to prove? And was there a chance that his line of questioning would undermine the point Republicans were trying to make? Can you help us understand what happened there? Yeah. And first, if I could just add what you might have not seen in that clip is that Eric Schmidt had his staffer put up a poster behind him that really tried to connect the dots of Jack Smith potentially spending some time with Bonnie Willis while she was pursuing her case in Georgia.

32:56But that didn't actually come to Jack Smith's line of sight. He actually asked for that poster to be put back up. Eric Schmidt didn't. Democrats, as you heard there, Amy Klobuchar asked for that poster to be put back up. She said, I'm a prosecutor. I don't even know what that says. Can we see it again? There you go on your screen. I asked Senator Schmidt what he was trying to prove in that moment. Clearly, he made a mistake by talking about the completely wrong game that was hundreds of miles away. Watch this. What did you mean by saying he attended an Atlanta Falcons game? We're asking if he was in Atlanta on February 3rd.

33:28There's text messages about him being at a basketball game, a Hawks game. So we ask questions. We'll find out. That's going to be up to a prosecutor to determine. My job here today was to ask questions and get answers. He's already perjured himself. He did it in his house testimony. So we'll find out if he perjured himself further. Kelly, that perjured comment is important here because Schmidt admitted that he was referring to the time that Jim Jordan alleged that Smith perjured himself in a house hearing. But in that testimony, Schmidt looked at Jack Schmidt and said, you perjured yourself now under oath and you're a, quote, dirtbag.

34:03So there's that. And it's disputed whether or not that was perjury or whether he's asked he was answering a different question. That's a matter. We'll litigate another day. Julie, thank you. That was complicated stuff to wind through. Appreciate it. And after the break, we're going to follow the money. We'll hear from some of the Republican lawmakers taking issue with the Trump administration's unconventional use of taxpayer dollars to fund a pro-Trump ad. This is Meet the Press Now.

34:36We're glad you're back. Some top Republicans on Capitol Hill are pushing back on the Trump administration's use of taxpayer funds to air pro-Trump campaign style ads. It's a great message. I like the message, but it shouldn't be paid for taxpayer dollars. I've read about it. I haven't seen it. What are your thoughts on that? Is it appropriate? No. It's not an exposed question. It feels like Viktor Orban talking to the Hungarian people. There's no place for that sort of you want to run that ad. We have plenty of resources. I mean, none of it made sense to me. And what most didn't make sense to me, it was paid for by taxpayer dollars.

35:16Those comments come as an official confirms to NBC News that the funds from that were used to fund these ads came from money intended for use by Customs and Border Protection. The White House claims the ads in question are public service announcements, although they are nearly identical to actual campaign ads that were run by the president's 2024 campaign. And joining me now is our panel. We'll be talking about this. Carrie Dan, managing editor of The Cook Political Report. Antoine Seawright, Democratic strategist and founder of Blueprint Strategy and former White House communications director during Trump One, Mike Dubke.

35:52Thank you all for being here. Carrie, when you look at these ads, we often study ads. We know political messaging is important. It's a way to get to voters. The president and his party have a big war chest of resources. And he's using taxpayer money for something that has it's really imbued with political imagery and wording and so forth. It's not the kind of public service announcement about here's how to contact Social Security for your benefits. Does this have an impact and why do you think the president is doing it? Well, setting aside that, you know, the Hatch Act controversy, right, should he be doing this?

36:25Is this something that Democrats are going to try to litigate? Is there any recourse for what seems to be a violation pretty clearly of how federal money is supposed to be sent? Let's just look at the politics of this. Republicans in competitive races are trying to distance themselves from the president as much as they can on issues like, say, data centers. the Iran. They're talking a little bit about tariffs. Most of these candidates have been pretty careful to say it's not that Trump did anything wrong, but he's maybe, you know, these policies are not serving people. Maybe he's getting some bad advice from his advisors.

36:58The last thing that these competitive Republican candidates want is Donald Trump to be front and center in front of voters who are watching a football game, like trying to escape politics. And 30 seconds of the president, you know, having this kind of naked political ad is the last thing that candidates who are trying to distance themselves from the White House and portray themselves as independent really want to see. Mike, what do you make of that? This is the president's image. It's his voice. It's his persona. Really front and center. Oh, very much front and center. And it's, you know, a couple of ground rules here.

37:33One, he's not a candidate. So, you know, all of these you can't advertise 60 days, 90 days before an election. Not a candidate. Other presidents have done this. Obama did this with ACA. I know I'm getting I'm I'm I'm getting there. Yes. OK. Having said all of that, it was shocking on Sunday to be watching a football game and having this go on. And I I was expecting a paid for buy by some candidate or something like that. It very much came across as as a as a campaign ad. And I think to the point the president for the president to be there for some Republicans is a good thing for the government to be paying for it.

38:12That's where we're going to run into some problems. And that's that's the difficulty. Do Democrats use this issue to talk about how this administration handles taxpayer money? Or is this something that just is noise in the in the space? This is why Republicans are going to lose, because there's no one to hold the crooks accountable. If this were a Democratic administration, the oversight hearings will be overflowing and that would suck up the news cycle. The bottom line is Donald Trump, Magonomics and Trumpism are three viruses that no Republican candidate want to be attached to. However, they're contagious and the American people are sick.

38:47And that is why they're going to lose in November. Remember what the president is trying to do with this ad and other things is trying to distract the news cycle from the reality. Reality is this war choice, almost 40 million dollars a day. 18 people died. Diesel prices higher than they've ever been before. Gas prices, evictions, repossessions, affordable housing units are empty because they're not affordable. as NBC News reported. And you have 25 million Americans, including, Mike, 18.2 million Americans in places that Donald Trump won who are paying more for their premiums, co-pays and deductibles.

39:23The president, his party and his policies are a walking and talking liability. So this helps the Democratic cause. Mike, is this a way for the party to deploy the president? Is that something that needs he's going to be on the trail? He's going to go to places. Some of them are quite red. How do you see the party leaders and those who are really on point with what the campaigns, the respective campaigns need? How are they going to use the president? Well, first, I think the American people need to remember that if the Democrats do take the House, especially, you're going to see hearing after hearing after hearing after hearing.

39:58You know, no policy is really going to get done. That's the call of accountability. No, no, no. No policy is going to get done. But on the in terms of the president being out there, you know, Republicans have had a deficit in mid-year elections in 18 and 22. And now we're looking at 26. And the president hasn't been out there because his low propensity voters haven't turned out. So to be intellectually consistent, it makes sense for the president to be out there, but be out there in person. Do the rallies. Put in the time. I think this over-the-top television ad isn't going to get people motivated to turn out on November 3rd.

40:34You know why the president's voters are not excited? Because he's failed them on the things he promised them, like lowering costs on day one on every single thing that impacts their material well-being, their quality of life. And these people voted for him because they thought he was going to offer something different. In fact, their lives have gotten worse. Ask farmers in Iowa and Texas and other places who are paying more because of the policies of Donald Trump. There are groups of Republican voters that turn out when the president is on the ballot. And that's the people that the president or the RNC, at least the Republicans are trying to get out.

41:06I was enjoying listening to you, too. So I let that go on for a little bit. Carrie, when you look at how the president views the landscape of Democrats, for example, he's been asked about what is the message during the midterms? And here's part of what the president has said in the way he's characterized Democrats. Let's take a look at that. What is your message to voters heading into the midterms? We have great people and we're running against communists, lunatics, socialists. Is it hard for the party that controls the House, the Senate and the presidency to win a midterm election? It almost never happens.

41:39But this is very different. Number one, we have a very unique president. Number two, we have a bunch of crazy people running on the other side. We have really high quality candidates in all the right places and they're going to be well resourced. And in many cases, they've drawn Democrat opponents who have literally lost their minds. I mean, they've gone so far left. So that's a characterization Republicans are giving to Democrats. Does it stick? Well, I think one thing that's really important to keep in mind is that the battleground itself is quite Republican, right? The Cook Political Report's toss-up races, the median seat in the toss-up category is a Trump plus seven.

42:13Republicans are playing on their own turf. And their belief is that people who are undecided or independents in a state like Ohio, in a state like Texas, in some of these red districts are independents. They're undecided, but they're going to come home. Right. If they are reminded that the Democratic brand is also not great. These are Republican or folks who would like to vote for a Republican, even though they're not fans of the president. That is the bet that Republicans are making is that at the end of the day, people who are maybe on the fence right now are going to put on their jerseys, show up in November.

42:42It's a tall order five weeks from an election now. And we've only got seconds left. Just let me get a quick reaction from you. Barack Obama is going to be back out for Senate Democrats. Is that a good strategy? It's a great strategy. Every successful athlete is always loyal to their team and they are welcome back to the locker room and to give advice and strategy. Michael, they use it. I think they have to. And what they really want are the dollars to be coming in. And I can't believe it took them this long to show up at a fundraiser. But he's done fundraisers before. So, well, on this for the for the hundred billion dollars are not quite done yet.

43:15I think in the green room, they've got much more to say. But I want to thank you, Carrie and Mike and Antoine. Always a lively group. We appreciate there's so much to talk about in these weeks ahead. We, of course, will be back tomorrow with more of Meet the Press Now. And the news continues right here on NBC News Now.

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