Meet the Press NOW — September 4

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1:05Welcome to Meet the Press Now. I'm Kristen Welker, and we continue to follow breaking news, a dramatic series of developments in the triple murder trial of Lindsay Clancy that unfolded throughout the day. Just moments ago, the judge formally declaring a mistrial, announcing the defense team's request for an emergency stay had been denied. Lindsey Clancy's lead attorney, Kevin Reddington, speaking to reporters last hour after that ruling came down with some particularly harsh words for what he believed to be a single juror who stood in the way of an acquittal over questions of reasonable doubt.

1:41How is Lindsey?

1:47She's not good. I was with Paris. Not good. Kevin, what do you think they can go through this again? they know that they were robbed by one man for whatever his agenda was, who stole seven weeks of the life of these other jurors that were so attentive, so beautiful, so wonderful. And listen to this evidence. And you can see how defeated they were sitting there. And I got a funny feeling that they would have gone on for another week if they had to. So I hope that guy can sleep well at night. The Plymouth County District Attorney, meanwhile, defending the prosecution's case, but would not say if they will retry it.

2:34I do know that one of the questions that are out here right now regarding retrials. I will let you know that there'll be no decisions made today regarding that. I bring it all back to the child victims in this case. Cora, Dawson and Callen. this was and has always been about getting justice for those three little babies. This case is not about a health care system or about how women are treated in it or what's diagnosis there are in the DSM or what there are not. Those are all important issues. They stir up emotion and sometimes they stir up anger. This case, however, was about Lindsay Clancy and what she did on January 24th, 2023, and the cruel and calculated killing of three innocents.

3:24So here's how it all played out today. This morning, the jury coming back for the third time, saying in a note from the foreperson that, quote, with a heavy heart, they were unable to reach a unanimous decision. But just as the judge was prepared to declare a mistrial, Clancy's lead attorney made a last ditch effort asking for an emergency appeal to the state Supreme Court. And after a hastily assembled emergency hearing via Zoom, that appeal was denied and the judge formally declared a mistrial. This trial and the issues of postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis has gripped the nation in the last few weeks.

3:59The president was even asked about it this afternoon in the Oval Office, calling it a horrible tragedy. Joining me now, NBC News senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett and NBC News legal analyst Misty Maris. Thank you both for starting us off. Everyone agrees this is a tragedy all around. Laura, take us inside the courtroom today, that moment the judge declared a mistrial. What was that moment like? Yeah, it's just such an extraordinary series of hours, Kristen. If you think about sort of the buildup here, you go into the seventh day with the jury having said twice they cannot reach a unanimous verdict, which they are required to do in order to find her guilty.

4:37They have to be unanimous. They're saying they just can't do it. But we did learn there appeared to be a lone holdout. One person who, for whatever reason, was not able to follow the law. That's what the foreperson said. We went into today thinking, OK, is the judge going to actually hold some sort of inquiry with that person and interrogate them to find out what is the issue? What is the holdup? The judge didn't do that. Instead, he just read the instructions once again, told him to follow the law, get back in there, keep deliberating. liberating. And just a few hours after that, we hear again, OK, they're deadlocked.

5:10This is now the third time they've come back. So that's really the end of the line. Except at that moment when the judge said he was inclined to declare a mistrial, then the defense says, oh, no, you don't. And they ran to the Supreme Court of the state, Kristen. They went to the highest court of that entire state to try to get the high court to intervene. They hold this hastily gathered Zoom with the judge who's taking notes by hand, trying to follow this timeline over the course of the last month, all the twists and turns. Clearly, that judge only just trying to get up to speed. Ultimately, that effort did not succeed.

5:45But it was just extraordinary. Again, with the jury waiting there in the wings to have them jump over, as you see there, the justice there trying to get up to speed. Look, Lindsey Clancy in court. We were watching her via Zoom, listen to all of this. But that effort did not succeed. And ultimately, the mistrial was declared. It was just an extraordinary series of events. Laura, you're absolutely right. Misty, let me turn to you. Laura talks about the fact that the accusation of this one juror was that this juror was not following the law. Explain exactly what that means and what the concern was about this 12th juror who did not agree with the findings of the 11 other jurors.

6:30Yeah, so the foreperson's note said that this juror refused to follow the instructions given by the court and the law when it came to the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. Of course, Kristen, that being the most important part of any criminal case, the prosecution's burden. But the judge had to toe the line here because there's a difference between a juror who refuses is to follow the rules, a juror who says they will not follow the law as instructed, which is part of their oath, versus a juror who has a different perception or a different determination about whether or not prosecutors actually establish that burden.

7:06So what the defense wanted was instead of just telling these jurors, this is your obligation, let me remind you of the standard, please tell me that you can affirm that you understand and you will follow the law. The defense wanted it to go a step further and have a specific inquiry to that juror to dig into whether or not this was a question of following the law or just you have one person who doesn't agree with the majority. Yeah, I thought it was so fascinating, Laura. One of the reporters asked defense attorney Kevin Reddington if he wanted to talk to the jurors. He said he wants to talk to that one juror who was in disagreement.

7:41It was an emotional day outside of the courtroom as well. I want to play a little bit more of what Kevin Reddington had to say. Take a look. How do you compare this to all your other cases? You've had a legendary career. What is different about this? She's like a daughter to me. It sucks. It's the best thing I can say. It really does. But not for me. It's what I do for work, for Lindsay. My heart breaks for her. She deserved that acquittal that she should have had. She's like a daughter to me. I mean, it was yet another extraordinary moment in a series of so many, Laura, Talk a little bit about the emotional toll of this case and why it's captured the attention of the nation.

8:23It's a harrowing case, Kristen. The facts are grisly and grim, a young mother who says she was in the throes of postpartum psychosis, killing, having admitted to killing her three young children under the age of five and then trying to take her own life, confined to a wheelchair there in court because she is paralyzed from the waist down from having jumped out of that window. The facts, they're just harrowing. And the jury heard so much testimony in this case, Kristen. It took weeks and weeks. There were, you know, over 80 different witnesses, so much evidence, so much for them to sift through.

9:01And I just continue to go back to the fact that if the DA actually intends on retrying this case, which we're even in this moment not sure he's going to do because he refused to say so on the record today when asked directly about it. He said, we'll get to that. Not today, surely, but we'll get to that. But if, in fact, the DA is going to do this, you just have to wonder, are they going to change strategy in some way, given the reaction to how they decided to try the case this time around? Yeah. Misty, let me ask you about a little bit more about today's developments, this strategy to go to the state Supreme Court that Laura talked about.

9:37We saw that video there. You could watch the entire proceeding. Why do you think that request for a stay was ultimately denied by the state's highest court? Well, so we had a unique situation, Kristen, where the prosecution and the defense had a view into the jury room and found out that it was 11 jurors who were favoring the defense and one favoring the prosecution. And so the defense was not going to let this go. And he was going to pull out all the stops, Kevin Reddington, to try and preserve a verdict that that he believed could be favorable to the defense. But when it comes to the judicial review of the higher court, there is so much discretion that's given to the trial judge that ultimately the Supreme Court decided that they weren't going to intervene.

10:24It wasn't proper to intervene in what they deemed was a conduct by the judge that didn't violate any of Lindsay's constitutional rights. It wasn't an abuse of discretion. It was something the trial judge could determine on his own and handle. And they don't like to intervene unless they have to. And what the trial judge did in giving that instruction and polling the jurors, giving them the oath was enough to preserve the trial. Laura, to the point that you made, the prosecution essentially said, look, the district attorney said we haven't made a decision yet about whether to retry this case. What types of things will the defense attorney take into consideration as he makes that determination?

11:05Yeah, it's interesting. The defense attorney, Kevin Reddington, is saying, I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go this month. And the court to say, essentially, slow your roll on that. Maybe this fall. But the district attorney has an enormous amount of discretion in terms of what the charges would be this time around. So while this time was first degree murder, three counts for the three children, Kristen, they could decide to bring it down to something more akin to second degree murder or even manslaughter. Now, you can imagine how well that would go over, given how hard charging they were this time around.

11:35But they may look at it and just say, look, we may not be able to win. They also likely are likely to consult with the family here, Kristen, because obviously the father of these children, Patrick Clancy, he might have a thought on how this should go. Their grandparents might have a thought. They testified again in this trial about Lindsay Clancy, about her cries for help. You wonder how they feel about a mistrial today, Kristen. The entire family just completely crushed over these past many years dealing with this tragedy. Let me ask you, Misty, finally, how quickly do you think a retrial could happen if in fact it does?

12:10And what happens to Lindsay Clancy in the meantime? As Laura said, we have to wait and see what the D.A. says. But it seems like if that DA says we're going to move forward and this trial is going to be the same, the parties are ready to go. Lindsay Clancy is currently in a state hospital, Tewkesbury Hospital. And even though there's a mistrial, her detention and her status does not change. So she will remain there until another trial moves forward. But I want to flag something, Kristen. And Kevin Reddington's presser outside of the courthouse, he has said that he's going to raise some challenges to the prosecution bringing this case again.

12:48Maybe double jeopardy. Sounds like he's alluding to that juror perhaps being a stealth juror, a juror who has an agenda. That was his words. So could some motion practices pre-trial actually extend when we see a second trial come into the courtroom? Well, still a lot to watch here. Laura and Misty, you have both been all over this case since the very beginning. watched your remarkable coverage throughout the day. Thank you so very much to both of you for being here, for sharing your expertise and perspective. We really appreciate it. An important reminder, if you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, you are not alone.

13:26Call or text 988 or go to 988lifeline.org to reach the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. Help is just a moment away. Coming up, the intensifying battle over voting with the first midterm ballots being mailed to voters today as the Trump administration takes its legal fight against those ballots to the Supreme Court. Stay with us. You're watching The Press Now.

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15:56Welcome back. The first ballots of the 2026 general election are set to go out today in the mail, even as uncertainty hangs over the entire midterms amid the Trump administration's ongoing efforts to restrict voting by mail. Today, North Carolina officials are sending out absentee ballots statewide as required by state law. 19 other states will be mailing out their ballots over the next 15 days. It comes as President Trump's sweeping efforts to restrict mail-in voting are once again before the Supreme Court. Yesterday, the administration asked the high court to overturn a lower court ruling which blocked part of the president's March executive order.

16:33That order would give the federal government sweeping control over who is eligible to vote by mail, requiring the U.S. Postal Service to only process ballots that are on a government-approved list of citizens. It's part of that broader push by the president, whether by executive order or by legislation, to overhaul voting laws in this country, tying it directly to his political fight against Democrats in the midterms. If we pass Save America and we have voter identification with Voto, and if we have, as an example, a simple thing like place of birth, you know, it would be nice to have where were you born?

17:12If you have those two things, I will tell you, I think the Republicans maybe have a chance of not losing an election for many, many decades. But if the Republicans aren't smart. You'll end up with Puerto Rico, where, by the way, Republicans get 3 % of the vote. Washington, D.C., you will never have. I'll be the last. Think of it. I will be the last Republican president if that happens. Now, we should note voter fraud, whether by mail or in person, is exceedingly rare. And while the president has baselessly called mail-in voting fraudulent, He himself voted by mail in Florida's primary election last month and has voted by mail multiple other times as well.

17:56Meanwhile, exclusive new reporting from NBC News shows Democrats are bracing for and mobilizing against potential election disruptions in the midterms. Party leaders, elected officials, attorneys and pro-democracy groups are engaging in both public and private exercises, trying to game out how they believe the president and his allies could try to meddle with the process. Joining me now is our NBC News team, Jane Timms, senior reporter covering election administration and policy, national politics reporter Natasha Karecki and senior Supreme Court reporter Lawrence Hurley. Thanks to all of you for starting us off.

18:31Lawrence, I'm going to start with you. How soon do you believe the court could weigh in on the administration's appeal? Well, in theory, the court could act at any time, but I think more realistically, it will probably be sometime next week. They've asked for the other side to weigh in by Tuesday. So we could get a ruling sometime after that, I think is most likely. Well, right, because the administration actually filed the appeal at the same time. It also appealed the first ruling from the First Circuit. Does that suggest that there's a real sense of pressure here in terms of the timing? Yeah, I mean, it does get a little confusing.

19:10I don't want to bore everyone with the details, but basically the administration rushed up to the Supreme Court before the appeals court even issued a decision. And it's also appealed from a very provisional ruling by the district court. The court hasn't actually issued an injunction yet. That could also happen as early as today. And so typically that's what the administration would appeal from up to the Supreme Court. So there's lots of moving parts in this litigation. That's probably why the court might sit tight for a while before it issues a decision. I know you will have your eye on the high court as we watch and wait to see what happens.

19:46Jane, let me pick up with you there. If the Supreme Court does rule in favor of the president, what if any avenues exist for opponents to try to block it? you know if the supreme court puts it in place i think states are going to have a strong argument to say that it is impossible to implement uh but the supreme court is is sort of the top court i do think states would have an enormous trouble putting this in place uh you know wisconsin put out guidance last week that said it is impossible for them to comply with it and that they have no plans to do so. So you're going to see states point out that the reality of the matter is that the ballot envelopes are printed.

20:29They're packed. They're ready to go. You can't redesign them, put new barcodes on them with days to go with ballots already in the mail. The process is, the ship is out of the harbor. Yeah. I mean, practically, does the Postal Service have the resources, Jayme, needed to comply with the order? How would it work if this were to happen. You know, the whistleblower complaint that came out gave real serious questions as to whether or not the Postal Service is equipped to do this. I mean, this executive order, not withstanding, advocates and election officials have serious concerns about whether the post office can even get ballots just through the mail in a timely fashion, let alone to go through this complex process that we know relies on a system that this whistleblower claims is untested, unflawed.

21:19We also know election officials don't even have access to this. So this portal, they've never been trained on this portal. They don't even know how to use it at this stage. So there's just so much that has to be done before this. As one source told me yesterday, this was impossible, not just this week, but impossible long ago. It would have needed to be implemented many months, if not years ago, for this to work. Oh, that's interesting. Natasha, let me turn to you now. Let's talk about your exclusive reporting that Democrats are mobilizing to prevent election disruptions. Walk us through your reporting.

21:52What does that look like in reality? Well, it's really what we found is it's an all hands on deck effort across the country and their Democrats are trying to hit it from multiple sides. So one, they're trying to train tens of thousands of what they're calling democracy protectors. And they're actually using some of the techniques that anti-ice activists in Minneapolis use. So making sure to capture things on video outside the polls, for instance. And thousands of people have already signed up for this. So that's really underway already. It's called the New Battlefield Project. And part of that are also very interesting.

22:34Democrats are trying to tell voters and message to vote early and vote in person. Also, you know, messaging, Dropbox voting and mail voting, but in that order. And then what we also found was they are running these tabletop exercises. And some of them are public, some of them are behind closed doors. We've had, you know, congressional leaders, Senate leaders, all kinds of different stakeholders across the spectrum. Some of them are Republicans. Most of them are, you know, on the Democratic side. And what they're doing is they're saying, let's look at the worst case scenarios. What's the worst things that can happen?

23:16And now let's game out. How do we attack that from a legal perspective, from a communication perspective? They understand there's going to be an information war. So there's there's just a ton of stuff happening at the same time, Kristen. And Jane, you also, of course, a part of this exclusive reporting as well. What are your key takeaways and how effective do you think the efforts would be to put some type of plan in place to deal with any attempt, should it happen, to try to in any way impact what's happening at the polls? you know i think what natasha said an information war is the thing that's most important to think about here and i keep going back to 2020 when we knew that a lot of democrats were being encouraged to vote by mail and we're going to vote by mail during the pandemic and that a lot of republicans were going to vote in person it created this sort of phenomenon of this blue wave the republicans who voted same day their votes were counted first on election night they looked like they were in the lead.

24:17And then the Democrat votes from mail votes got counted second. And we knew that system was going to happen. And so that when it happened overnight, when Democrats started winning in many of these races, because those mail ballots were counted, there was an electorate, at least some people who understood that that was going to happen, were prepared for it. An educated electorate, it's a prepared electorate, and there's stronger democracy, I think. And that's the idea behind this is that if people are prepared, not much can go wrong and people will be ready for it if it does. Natasha, let me just ask you, were there any Republicans involved in these efforts as well?

24:54There were some. We talked to the former Maricopa Academy recorder who was in a couple of these tabletop exercises. And, you know, he just talked about some of it. He thought some of the concerns were overblown. For instance, one of the scenarios that Democrats are playing out is whether ballots could be seized by federal monitors while they're being counted. And he said he, you know, he thought that was far-fetched, but he also pointed out that there was a time when, you know, the Fulton County, this was post-voting, of course, but the Fulton County ballots were actually seized. That's one of the scenarios they're looking at.

25:37You know, we also had the governor of Wyoming coming out and saying that during their primaries that that went too far. They thought the federal monitors were being too aggressive and talking to voters and interviewing them. He thought that that was there was a jurisdictional issue there. But what we've seen from, you know, other Republicans, like, for instance, in Texas, they closed a bunch of polling locations in black communities, you know, 90 different offices. And in North Carolina, you have Republicans who are advocating for no Sunday voting. So there's a hodgepodge of things going on, but Democrats are pushing this the hardest.

26:20All right, Natasha, thank you so very much. Lawrence, Jane, stick around for us. We have more for you up next. A major midterm mess. After Missouri's highest court rules, the state's redrawn congressional districts cannot be used in November and were invalid when the state held its primaries this summer. So what happens next? We'll delve into that. Stay with us on Meet the Press now.

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27:55You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. Welcome back. Turning now to another election-related story brewing in Missouri this time, and a major win for Democrats. After the state Supreme Court ruled the redrawn congressional map backed by Republicans cannot be used in this midterm election cycle. It also requires a referendum to be added to November's ballot on whether to use the redrawn map going forward. The ruling means this fall's elections will take place under its previous district lines, even though Missouri already ran its primary election using the new Republican-drawn map.

28:38That map would have drawn longtime Missouri Democrat Emanuel Cleaver out of his seat. But now Cleaver will be seeking re-election in his old seat, which skews heavily Democratic. The Missouri attorney general is vowing to appeal the decision all the way to the Supreme Court. Jane Tim and Lawrence Hurley are still with me to break all of this down. Lawrence, I have to start with you. This has been a pretty long battle between the state and advocacy groups. So walk us through the court's decision here. Well, the key thing here is that the Missouri Supreme Court decision is based completely on Missouri state law.

29:15And this law is about the Secretary of State in Missouri saying that he didn't think the Missouri Constitution allowed for a referendum on the legislature's decision to draw these new districts. And the Missouri Supreme Court said that's simply wrong under state law. So this presumably is now going to get appealed to the Supreme Court of the United States, which the state has said it's going to do. And that, I think, based on what experts have been saying, it's unlikely the Supreme Court would get involved at this point just because the Supreme Court doesn't have the final word on state law. It's up to state courts to decide that.

29:56You may recall a few months ago there was a similar redistricting fight in Virginia where the Virginia Democrats tried to get the Supreme Court involved and the Supreme Court declined to do so. So there are some similarities between those two cases. There absolutely are. Let me ask you, though, hypothetically, even though you're saying it is unlikely, if the Supreme Court were to decide to take it up, do you anticipate they would do so before Missouri's September 8th deadline to finalize their ballot? Yeah, I mean, I think they would have to because otherwise, I mean, it would be too late. I mean, we're getting to the point where, as with the mail-in ballots issue, we're getting so close to the election.

30:35Courts are very reluctant to get involved. Of course, the Missouri Supreme Court did get involved. But because that's a matter of state law, it's not really for the Supreme Court to get involved if there's no U.S. constitutional issue that is writ large in the case. Jane, let me ask you about the president's reaction. He says there's not going to be enough time to change the map before the election. Talk about the practicalities and the challenges moving forward. You're dealing with ostensibly two different maps in the primary versus the general, right? Yeah, you know, look, two things can be true at once.

31:11I think this will be difficult for election officials. Redistricting usually takes a long time. and depending on how the redistricting affects election officials, how many blocks are split. Those are the things that are particularly hard when you're doing the reprogramming that is involved in redistricting. And there's the fact that typically under the state protocols and rules, when you have a veto referendum months ago, the state would have normally put this law on hold and moved forward with the old maps. They declined to do that. state officials fought this referendum every step of the way in extraordinary efforts to stop it from being put in.

31:48So when you read this unanimous state court opinion, they basically said, if you're going to play with fire, you might get burned. And that you brought this on yourself is sort of the argument that is given to the secretary of state that you insisted this would be too hard, but you also ran the clock out. So fix your problem and comply with the law is what they said. And how does this change things for Congressman Cleaver? It's not an overstatement to say this has a potentially dramatic impact on his chances of reelection. Yeah, this went from a race he couldn't win to a race he can't lose. He's probably quite pleased with this ruling.

32:28His district went from under the Republican drawn map, It would have been something like lost Trump 17 points. And now it's back to him, I think, plus 19 points. Forgive me, those numbers might have been swapped. But either way, he's definitely looking at a much easier November election than he was before. Lawrence, how unusual is something like this? Well, I mean, we're in unusual times, right? We've this mid-decade redistricting war that President Trump kicked off is itself unprecedented. And we've seen a whole host of cases over the last year or so, actually, coming up to the Supreme Court and being handled in state courts.

33:06So I think it is pretty unusual for the Missouri Supreme Court to have ruled so close to the election. But it's also, as Jane said, extremely unusual for the state to slow walk this referendum approval process, leaving it to the very last minute, like an hour before the deadline, I think, was when the secretary of state announced that this referendum couldn't go on the ballot. And so and that's something that the Missouri Supreme Court seemed pretty miffed about in a very long footnote that one of the judges wrote. So I think, you know, there's a lot of gamesmanship going on on both sides at times.

33:39And, you know, this means that these cases come up at the last minute. Jane, how high do you think the chances are for issues on Election Day at this point? You know, with late redistricting, there's a good chance voters might get put in the wrong district. Either way, even if everything goes right on the side of election officials, there's going to be voters who are confused because the election they voted on the primary isn't going to be on their general election ballot. There's definitely going to be confusion at the polls. That's sort of unavoidable with this issue. Yeah. Lawrence, before I let you go, I have to ask you, the Supreme Court did weigh in on a different election issue today.

34:19Tell us more about that. Yeah, not quite as high profile, but the court did rule in favour of Republicans and President Trump, which blocked an appeals court ruling over ad rates for election ads, meaning that party committees can now get the same discounted rate as individual candidates. This is seen as being a win for Republicans because they generally rely more on the committee spending rather than the individual candidates. So this kind of puts back what status quo was. So it doesn't really change a whole lot. But nevertheless, another win for Republicans at the Supreme Court. All right, Jane Lawrence, thank you both so much.

35:02Pull in double duty today on multiple topics. We really appreciate it. Coming up next, it's the economy. Diesel prices surged to a record high. The White House touts a stronger than expected jobs report and the president threatens a global trading crisis if the Fed doesn't lower interest rates. What it all means next on Meet the Press Now.

35:29Welcome back. We want to turn now to some economic data we got today. the Labor Department reporting 162 ,000 jobs were added in August, far more than the 53 ,000 expected with the unemployment rate holding steady at 4.1 percent. The president touted those numbers earlier today, making the case interest rates should now be lowered. Success does not cause inflation. Stupidity causes inflation. So hopefully we get a change. We have a day like this where the numbers are phenomenal, so much better than anyone thought possible. And you've seen nothing yet. What I'm saying very simply is that we should be paying the lowest interest rate in the world.

36:12Each point in interest in this country that we pay costs us$650 billion. We should be at 1 % or a half a percent. We shouldn't be at 4%. The president, of course, does not set interest rates. That's the job of the Federal Reserve. At the same time, U.S. diesel prices hit a record high. The national average for a gallon of diesel fuel is now$5.85. That exceeds the previous high in June of 2022, a few months after Russia invaded Ukraine. Joining me now is NBC News business and economy reporter Ali Canal and NBC News senior White House correspondent Gabe Gutierrez. Thanks to both of you, Ali. Let me start with you.

36:56President Trump celebrating the jobs numbers. You just heard him there. What are your big takeaways from those numbers? Well, look, this was a surprising report. Typically, August tends to be a weak month due to seasonality factors, but we saw 162 ,000 jobs added. And probably more importantly, were the revisions that we saw for June and July. So remember, in July, we saw surprise job losses, but those were actually revised higher to a gain. June also seeing a gain as well. So combined, those two months were 55 ,000 jobs stronger than we previously thought. And then if you take a look at something like the unemployment rate, still at 4.1%.

37:34Historically, this is a really strong number. Now, we have to keep in mind that we're in a very tight labor market right now when it comes to who's actually out there working. We have an aging population. We have baby boomers retiring. We have stricter immigration restrictions. So all of that factors in to this unemployment rate. And then this is something we watch all the time, right? You know, how far is my paycheck getting me? Wages slowing to 3.1 percent on an annual basis. But look at inflation, 3.4 percent. So that means prices are still rising faster than your paycheck. And this is something that the Federal Reserve watches very closely as well, Kristen.

38:11Yeah, one of those key benchmarks for sure. Well, the president is saying that the new jobs numbers mean the interest rates should be lowered. The Federal Reserve has kept interest rates steady so far this year. Do you think that there is a case that they should be made lower? What do you think the Fed is going to be taking into consideration? That doesn't even seem to be on the table here, Kristen. It really seems to be a toss-up between holding rates steady or potentially hiking interest rates. And the reason is, is you have to remember that the Fed has a dual mandate, maintaining stable prices and achieving maximum employment.

38:45What this job report does, it actually gives the Fed a little bit more wiggle room here. We have a really solid job market. We don't need to worry about that side of our mandate, but we do need to worry about the inflation side because the Fed's target is 2 % inflation. You see us right here, 3.4 % for consumer prices. Pre-Iran war, we were inching closer to that 2 % target, 2.4%. Of course, we are well off of the highs that we saw in 2022 when inflation was above 9 percent. But we still have a ways to go to reach that target. And it's becoming harder and harder as we deal with volatility in the oil market.

39:21And then if you just take a look at what the Fed has done in previous meetings, we've been on an extended pause. The last time that they acted on interest rates and lowered them was all the way back in December of 2025. Let's talk about these fuel prices now. Diesel hitting an all-time record high of$5.85 cents per gallon driven by the war with Iran. What do you think the potential impacts could be on the average person on people's wallets? Yeah, you have to think that diesel, it powers a lot of things for us, right? Our boats, it powers the tractors. So farmers that are going out there and harvesting our food, what do they use?

39:56They use diesel. So there's a real ripple effect and a chain reaction there on the side of the consumer. And there's a few reasons why we've seen diesel prices higher. One reason, of course, is the ongoing war with Iran. But we also saw Ukrainian attacks on Russian oil infrastructure. All of that is limiting the supply of oil available on the market and impacting these diesel prices, impacting gas prices, which are firmly above four dollars a gallon nationally. And there doesn't seem to be a lot of relief in sight. And this is a big factor when we talk about the inflation picture. All right, Ali Canal, Wow.

40:31Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Gabe, let me turn to you over at the White House. President Trump took questions today with reporters. He was pressed on the war with Iran, of course, which impacts those prices I was just talking about with Ali. What did he have to say today? Well, Kristen, look, it's become a war of words, so to speak. The president now, you know, talking about semantics here when it comes to whether to call the Iran war a war or a military conflict, as he said today. But what was significant, Kristen, is that he really downplayed the scope of all this more so than he had before.

41:06Listen to what he had to say when he was asked about it in the Oval Office a short time ago. I'll tell you what, a lot of people don't call it a war. I call it a military conflict because it's small potatoes for us. It's not a big thing. We did Venezuela and we did this. In Venezuela, we lost nobody. In this, we lost 18 people. So there you heard it, Kristen, calling it the war small potatoes, despite the fact that this has gone on for more than six months now, that there have been 18 American service members killed. Now, he went on to further say that one person killed was too much, but too much.

41:44But then he compared the lives lost to other conflicts such as Vietnam and again, really downplayed the scope of this war. By the way, in a social media post earlier today and also in an interview that aired yesterday with a British outlet, he did call it a war, Chris. Gabe, you know, we've been talking about these prices, the fact that gas is above four dollars a gallon. I was just talking about the price of diesel with Ali. Based on your conversations with administration officials, how much concern is there about these prices? Look, politically, there's no doubt about it. this is the problem.

42:19You know, average gas prices at four dollars and 15 cents, you know, the highest heading into Labor Day. But the White House is trying to make the case and really trying to hit this point ahead of the midterms. We heard the vice president make this case yesterday at the briefing room. They're trying to argue that this is temporary and that it is a result of Iran shooting at commercial ships in the Strait of Hormuz. And the administration officials keep trying to make the case that there is more more oil passing through the strait. So, yes, They say that this is a temporary issue, but certainly something that many Republicans are watching very closely as we creep closer and closer to these midterms.

42:57Yeah. And part of this puzzle, interest rates, of course. The president today, with this notable threat to halt trade with every country that runs a surplus with the United States, unless the Fed cuts rates, we don't usually see these two things connected. What's the president's argument here? Look, he is expressing frustration that he sees the economy doing well, these job numbers today, for example, and he believes that interest rates should be coming down, as you were just describing earlier, though. It doesn't appear that that is likely to happen anytime soon, given where the economy is headed at the moment and the potential for future inflation.

43:36But at this point, Kristen, look, there's a whole host of issues with this potential threat. The president just trying to make the case that, yes, he doesn't want to see trade deficits with other countries and trying to make this suggestion that he will change his trade policy if interest rates don't come down. At this point, it remains to be seen whether it actually happened. There are a lot of legal issues in the way with actually cutting off trade with certain countries. So at this point, it appears to be a threat and not actual policy. But it's something that the president talks about over and over again whenever the issue of interest rate comes up, Christy.

44:18All right. Gabe Gutierrez at the White House for us. Gabe, thank you so very much. Coming up after the break, the third party factor. Meet the South Dakota independent candidate going toe to toe with incumbent Republican Senator Mike Rounds. Keep it right here on Meet the Press Now.

44:39Welcome back. As Democrats try to oust Republican senators in deep red states, they've pursued a unique strategy this year, dropping out. Democrats in three states, Idaho, Nebraska and South Dakota, quit their races to boost independent candidates who may have a better chance, they believe, at flipping those seats. South Dakota's independent candidate, Air Force veteran Brian Banks, who's facing incumbent Republican Senator Mike Rounds, believes this could be the year the Senate could send an independent to the upper chamber. Independent candidates are only real shot at saving the country. Senate control will keep flipping between red and blue until there's an independent caucus big enough to interrupt the pattern.

45:23Joining me now is Brian Banks. Thank you so much for joining me. Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Kristen. I really appreciate the invitation. Absolutely. Well, let's talk about the stakes of this race. South Dakota has actually never elected an independent to the Senate. It hasn't sent a Democrat to the Senate in nearly two decades. Why do you think you can flip this seat? Well, I'm running actually as a Teddy Roosevelt Republican in many ways because I want to bust up corporate monopolies. And that's a big issue here, along with a number of other things that Teddy Roosevelt champion.

45:59So the things that I'm saying appeal to people in South Dakota, just as they did when Teddy Roosevelt said them well over a century ago. Well, and I know you're saying you're running as a Teddy Roosevelt Republican. Let me ask you about your past. You previously ran for Senate in 2022 as a Democrat against Senator John Thune. You lost that race by nearly 50 points. Are you an independent or did you realize the Democratic brand is to some extent not a winning brand in South Dakota right now? Well, I've spent basically my entire adult life as an independent. I registered as an independent when I turned 18, and that was a number of years ago, back when George H.W.

46:40Bush was on the ballot for president. And I have always been an independent, except for the 13 months when I registered to run as a Democrat. And I'll note that Donald Trump has been a registered Democrat for eight times longer than me. And indeed, the current head of the South Dakota Republican Party has been a registered Democrat for 30 times longer than me. And yet nobody's asking them, are you really a Republican? So the question is just an effort to muddy the water because it's easy to point and say you're not on my team, you're on the other team, when in fact I'm on the team of South Dakota.

47:16So my party is actually South Dakota. As you know, your opponent, though, Mike Rounds, is making this an issue. He's called you a, quote, Democrat in disguise. How do you respond to that? Where do you differ from the Democratic agenda? Actually, there's a lot of differences in the Democratic agenda. The Democratic Party seems to have a significant problem with the far left kind of hijacking it at this point. At least that's what we're hearing about from shows like yours. And then they also have a problem with the individuals who are happy with the taking big money from corporate PACs and those individuals.

47:54So the corporate Democratic Party. So they have that problem they're dealing with. You know, I differ from the Democratic Party, at least the far left of the Democratic Party, in the sense that anybody who is saying that we should defund the police or abolish ICE or abolish prisons, I think that's ridiculous. I spent my life as a military prosecutor and a criminal justice instructor. So those things are just non-starters. Those are just insane ideas. Let me ask you, because you've said that you actually don't plan to caucus with Democrats. if you were to win, if Democrats were to win back the upper chamber?

48:31Would you stick to that? Would you not caucus with them? Yes, I believe the strength of the position that I'm going to hold will be an important part of restoring functional democracy to our country in the sense that there's a number of us running in the independent West. And, you know, Americans have always looked to the West for freedom and opportunity. And that's why the ideas of the independents like myself and Osborne in Nebraska and Achilles in Idaho and Bodnar in Montana and Bob Chu in Colorado. That's why these ideas resonate. So when we get elected, when you just get a handful of us elected, our intention is to deny the majority to either party, because then we can kind of bring both parties to the table and force them to consider the things that will restore the power of the vote to individual voters and take the power away from the big money donors.

49:25One of the big debates right now in the Democratic Party, and presumably if they were to win back the House, this would be among the issues they would debate, is the idea of Medicare for all. Is that something you would support? Now, I've taken the position that we need to have a public option. So I've proposed a Medicare buy-in. So individuals will have the opportunity on the marketplace to purchase Medicare from the government that competes directly with the private insurance companies. So by doing that, they would have the Medicare would not have the incentive to have a profit margin, deliver profits for shareholders, and they would not be paying their executives multimillion dollar salaries.

50:09So by default, it would be cheaper. And then I've also endorsed a concept that I'm calling the Walmart approach in the sense that if we empower Medicare at the same time to deal with suppliers such as big pharma, pharmaceuticals companies, the way Walmart deals with its suppliers, then we can drive down prices that way as well. So I'm for a public option, certainly, but not for universal health care. What one of the other big issues that Democrats and again, this is in the House and it would require Democrats winning back the House that they are weighing is whether to pursue impeachment proceedings against President Trump.

50:47If you were elected, would you support Democrats if they were to pursue that path? Well, I've been asked that question before, of course. And as I said, I am a military prosecutor and, well, military defense counsel as well, and a former criminal justice professor. So my understanding of the impeachment process is that it mirrors the criminal justice process in that the House is the functional equivalent of a grand jury, and the Senate is the equivalent of a jury, trial jury. And I've done enough trial jury selection to know that everybody who pre-decides a case should not have a position on the jury because they're not going to give it a fair hearing.

51:26What I can tell people is that I'm not going to prejudge, but I absolutely am not going to be shy about doing my job and fulfilling my responsibility as a juror. And I will hear both sides and weigh it. And if the case is made, I will have no trepidation whatsoever about voting guilty. If it's not made, I will have no trepidation about voting not guilty. You know, in order to win, you will need to win over President Trump's supporters. He won the state by nearly 30 points in the last election. What is your message to them? What's your strategy to win them over in November? Well, I am running against Mike Rounds.

52:06I'm not running against the president. So that is quite helpful in that regard. And Mike Rounds is historically unpopular in South Dakota. And across from the left to the center to the right, many Republican voters are not pleased with his job performance. So the fact that they have voted for Donald Trump does not mean that they are supporters of Mike Rounds. And I am able to talk to them about issues that are important to them. Again, for example, brusting up the corporate monopolies such as meatpacking that is holding down the profits for the cattle industry in South Dakota, which is a big part of our economy here.

52:44Well, he is the incumbent, though, and polls that I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong, show that he does have a lead. at this point. So how do you overcome that? No, actually, the polling we've done, let's see, I think I want to say we've done or there have been seven polls since last summer. Five of them were done by me and two of them were independent. And the big takeaway is that there's blood in the water surrounding Mike Rounds in the sense that his job approval has gone from a low of 32 to a high of 40. So he falls somewhere in that range. And the most recent poll shows that he has a job approval of 40.

53:22And that includes many Republican voters, as I said. And I on the initial ballot, on the initial head to head, the most recent poll has me tied with him at 44. And after positive messaging about my background and what I want to do and his, I end up 12 points over. All right. We are out of time. Brian Banks, thank you so very much. We'll be watching closely. Appreciate it. We'll be back Monday with more Meet the Press now. And if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press on your local NBC News station. I'll have exclusive interviews with Senator John Kennedy and Congressman Jamie Raskin. Plus, Steve Kornacki joins me with a brand new Decision Desk.

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