Arsenal and Eberechi Eze shine against Spurs, and is Arne Slot's job in jeopardy?: Men in Blazers 11/24/25

26:26Yeah, I mean, it's remarkable listening to him post-game. He talked about how he prayed on this and that God delivered. He is truly, genuinely a man of faith. Again, listen to the interview where he talks about it on Men in Blazers. It's really amazing to witness how this man maintained an inner confidence when football really crushed it out of him. And then he walked the hard miles. He really did with that faith, with that belief, with his family, with tenacity. And I look at AJ and think, God, you can be rewarded in life for doing those things. But I also look at him, Roy, in that moment, as I think it was Declan Rice pushed him to receive the accolades from the Arsenal faithful.

27:05And he just pointed up and told them there's one God, there's one God. There's that story, but there's also a true footballing story. You see the error margin of the talent spotters at the elite level, Roy. It's razor thin. Yeah, and I do wonder whether sometimes players need that rejection as their fuel. There are lots and lots of players who, maybe not quite as extreme as Eze, but who fell out of one academy and went to another and then developed there or fell down the leads a little bit. There are plenty of different pathways into elite football. It's not just, not everybody's Phil Foden or Trent Alexander-Arnold or whoever it might be, like earmarked for stardom from an early age and then delivered to stardom by one club.

27:49A lot of them have to take a slightly circuitous path. And I do think it probably has a character-building element to it. So Eze will be made stronger by all of the hardship in a professional sense that he's faced, by all of those rejections, all of those doubts, all of those worries that has forged who he is and what he is. And I suspect that is part of why he is where he is. Amen. At Bill Edgar Times tweeted, Eberichi Eze, first player with a palindromic surname to screw a top flight hat-trick since Albert Malum for Huddersfield against Liverpool in 1934. You just knew Eze, of all people, total wordle freak, undoubtedly just lived to break that record, Roar.

28:30I feel as though Malum is a slightly more impressive palindrome than Eze. That's what I thought, man. When I started that, respect, sir. God bless you to Malum and your family, wherever they are, probably still in Huddersfield. It's a very Huddersfield name, Roar. Let's talk about Spurs, though. Problem. They were so bloody feeble. I wonder how much regret Thomas Frank has about setting up so negatively, because it was a spell just after Ritchie's goal. Well, there weren't exactly shots on target, but Spurs did take the game to Arsenal briefly, found out they could. And we forget in this narrative the absences, the injuries.

29:07They're going to be playing Paris Saint-Germain midweek, which is the most unforgiving next fixture. there is fury let's put it that way in Spurs Nation to be beaten smash 4-1 in a local rivalry that matters very much so we're meant to see the players fight and snarl and just grapple for every single to have 0.6 xG I think the lowest ever while it's been recorded to have was it two shots on goal one of them Richie's just moment of opportunity I love Thomas Frank I really do I love his brain I love his empathy He said it takes time for his... I mean, he came on our show. He told everybody when he took over, it takes my process.

29:47He's taken a moment. I see the injuries he has. No Madison, no Kulisevsky, no Solanke. But a lot of people don't rule. I mean, football is an acontextual game. It's not rational. It is emotional. So after the game, he said, I want to apologise to the fans. We're disappointed. We're unhappy in the performance today. Definitely a lot to work on still. It's worth remembering. This is his key line that's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. We finished 17th last season, was his words. I mean, it is a contextual football. We don't like to remember the 17th. We don't like to remember the injuries. How much collateral damage does this result do to the goodwill around his regime?

30:23Yeah, I think one of the issues that all fans have is we do live in that moment. We respond to the stimulus that's directly in front of us. And it takes a while for the rational side of your brain to kick in. And I think we all have that as fans. We will come on to this with another team that's not very good at the moment, Rog, later. where you are capable of thinking once the kind of dust has settled and your core body temperature has cooled down, you are capable of thinking, okay, I can kind of rationalise this in a way that makes it comprehensible, maybe not acceptable or maybe not pleasant, but certainly comprehensible.

31:00And Thomas Frank is right to do that. But he is, and I'm the same as you, I really like Thomas Frank. I think he's a great manager. I think we said at the time it was just one of those appointments that made perfect sense. But I think he is proof of one of the weird complexities of managing a team like Tottenham, like Arsenal, like Chelsea or Liverpool or Man United or whoever it is. Like a football team. A major football team that has aspirations that could look in the wrong context like delusions. There are kind of points for style. If the football you play is decreed not attractive, despite the fact that that is clearly a subjective categorisation, then it makes it a much harder sell to the fans when you lose.

31:42Fans will tolerate football that they don't find particularly enthralling when they're winning. They won't when they're not. And so the weird thing about Spurs' season so far under Frank is that their lead position has throughout been pretty good. You know, they were booed off the pitch when they were third, which is bizarre for Tottenham. Not just because they finished 17th last season, but because they're Tottenham. And I think it's because their home form's been terrible. Their away form has been excellent, but the majority of their fans are not seeing them in the flesh play well at home. But for that to kind of be viable long term, you probably can't go and get smashed in the North London derby.

32:21You probably need to at least put up a fight to give your fans something to complain about. A bad refereeing decision, a mistake, a player that they can direct their fury on. you can't just wilt because otherwise what you have now is a fan base that hasn't seen your team play well at home hasn't barely seen your team win at home and has just in the biggest fixture of your season seen them completely collapse that's not a great start for any manager Yeah listening to you talk about Spurs they are a fascinating vortex there's an Eduardo Galeano the great late Uruguayan poet quote about football he said I've just looked it up while you were speaking he said to win without magic without surprise or beauty.

33:03Isn't that worse than losing? Tottenham almost have a version of that where it's like to lose without magic, without surprise or beauty, is worse than winning. And that is, I think, the unforgivable sin. I admire it. I mean, it's so baked into their DNA, just the notion of Tottenham style. And to lose without style is probably the unforgivable sin. Let's have a quick button-up of Arsenal. Very quick, Raw. The biggest North London derby win, I think in 13 years, all the goals from open play, phenomenal performance, six point lead at the top of the table. None of the injuries of key players become the narrative.

33:42Gabriel out, Martin Odegaard out, Kai Havertz, Victor Jokeres still to come back. What amazes me about the culture there, because this is hard. We've seen it with Liverpool. It is hard. Every single player can fit in and up the intensity of all those around them. They don't detract. Players are able to just slide in, replace mainstays, mainstays without a speed bump. Yeah, and that's the depth that they've kind of built over the last year, this summer in particular, bringing in those players to mean that they can kind of, they can take out, slot in and replace and go without noticing it. But it's also, as you say, it's testament to the culture that Arteta's built.

34:18There's a real determination and grit and grizzle about Arsenal at the moment. They look like they are not going to let this one slip. They're not going to make it four in a row. They're not going to fall short again. I don't know whether they sense an opportunity because City and Liverpool keep slipping, maybe. I think they're very much of the view that they have agency in this whole situation, that this is their season. It's for them to decide what happens and they're playing like that. Yeah, there's someone on their Instagram said, Rog, you've got a secret soft spot for Arsenal. What I'd say is I admire coming second three years on the run.

34:52Being buried in accusations of being bottless, which I hate to be candid because it's an incredible achievement, I think, to come second in this Premier League. And still find the tenacity, the togetherness, the focus. It's like Sisyphus were watching roll the rock finally to the top of the mountain. And I think it's humanly magnificent. And that's what I admire. I say, Arsenal fans, savour that. That Spurs and Freude, you gooners, Bayern now arrive on Wednesday for the Eze-Elise derby. That is just, oh, well done, Champions League scriptwriters. Then they go to Chelsea for a top two clash for the ages.

35:28Premier League scriptwriters, you are never defeated. To Newcastle. Newcastle 2. Manchester City 1. Pep Guardiola declared bravely before this one, the season starts today, meaning the transfer window, the international breaks are now over. He said no international breaks until March. So now the season really starts, which are really words said before extraordinary, unexpected events. because this was 15th place Newcastle, but one of the flattest, most disappointing teams in the league, really an enigma. I think they've won as many Premier League games, three in 11 matches as they had Champions League games.

36:06They'd won three and four there. They'd actually lost three of their last four in the league. They seemed like borderline tailspin, two points off the relegation zone going in. And City, remember, had ripped off a charge to second, won seven of the last eight. Eddie Howe, also a remarkable narrative, They've never beaten Manchester City in his previous 18 attempts. I've been there. It's Moyes-esque against United. You could tell Pep was not afraid. The way before the game he talked about how Newcastle were a top, top, top team, which he only does when he thinks he's going to batter them. This game wide open from the off.

36:39It was all over the field. Haaland missed an early one-on-one. Volta Marder twice, brilliantly denied by Donnarumma. That battle, Volta Marder, Donnarumma. It was like watching Godzilla and King Kong go at it on a football field. One of the saves, the save from the header was incredible. And it gets lost a little bit because of everything else that happened in the game. But it was a brilliant header. Voltemar has given Newcastle a real edge in the air ever since he arrived, which is not that surprising. He's enormous. But for Donnarumma, who's equally big, to get down as fast as that was genuinely mind-bending.

37:13Incredible. Donnarumma, so there's a bit of the Guenzouzi factor in him. Some of his saves are so unbelievable. but then the camera just looks at him and he looks just like a kind of middle-aged, slightly stone-jelder who's working heavy machinery. I do not, I know he's known as one of the world's greatest goalkeepers. I still, I don't think that's even enough watching what he does as a huge man regularly. Toon running up and down the flanks, full-backs Livermento and Hall creating in the space that was seeded. Harvey Barnes already had a point-blank miss on the half hour. Pope smothered Haaland bravely.

37:44Foden failed to finish off another kaleidoscopic City move. This was one of the most watchable 0-0 first halves that you have seen. This was almost like a miss-off. It was like a no-goal fest. It was thrilling. Second half, suddenly the opposite. Cracked alive. Three goals in, I think, six and a half minutes. Harvey Barnes, 63rd. Stunning football. Guy Mares leading the transition so gleefully. Lashed off to a charging Barnes. Drove a pinpoint smash past Donnarumma. Felt like misdirection, to be candid. Because suddenly, that blunt first half erupted into total clinicality. Five minutes later, off a off-corner slop, Diaz cleaned up the mess, pinged the ball through traffic.

38:241-1. You saw Diaz, the way he ran back, the way he didn't celebrate, it looked like City were just like, OK, this is our game. We got this. There were loftier goals for this team to achieve. But football, as I said at the top, teaches us we know nothing. And huge credit to Newcastle, really, for their mental resiliency, their conditioning. Most teams would have wilted. The opposite happened. 70 minutes off a corner of their own. Walter Marder, full-on German Yao Ming, got his head on the ball. Back across, Guy Moresh headed against the bar. And Harvey Barnes blasted home from close range. Second archer sell the other day.

38:57Goal did need a whole episode of Law and Order to solve the VAR, but not offside. 2-1 to the tune. This was a gobsmacking interchange, Rupp. The whole thing was a wonderful football match. It was just a really thrilling game. What's the phrase in boxing? That styles make fights. and I think that is true of Newcastle against City because City are now much more physical, they are much more direct they are not the team that hopes to kill you by a thousand cuts anymore and Newcastle, when they're on it, when you've got Guimara, Eich and Joe Ellington and all those players charging around they are the most dynamic, most physical team in the Premier League and it was absorbing from the very first minute in that 10 minutes when all the goals came it wasn't like you felt there need to be goals in this game it was good without the goals, the goals were just the icing on the cake but there is a little bit of a mystery about Newcastle I think because similar to Arsenal they now have the depth that was their problem and yet they haven't made it pay yet they're playing quite well in patches they're putting decent performances in against decent teams but the fact that they were 15th at the start of the day it felt kind of almost like a false position but this felt very much like the performance that they needed to say okay actually do you know what we are a force to be reckoned with in the lead We can cope with these teams.

40:13We can beat these teams. We have nothing to be afraid of. Yeah, they look like the Newcastle have our modern imagination for the first time in the league all season. Their players were faster. They were tougher. They were first to the ball, stronger off it. They won this one in transition. We'll say having Chow shut down Haaland. So remarkably, that was a defensive performance or one of them of the season for me. Eddie Howe, congratulations. Beating Manchester City for the first time in 19 attempts. But for Pep, optically a loss. I think it's how football works. It's one loss, but more than that, it shattered that sense of indomitable aspiration and resurgence.

40:51Almost like the international break made them stall out, left Pep so bloody frustrated. It's fascinating watching Pep when he loses games. He can't just go down the tunnel and mull and do his press conference. He has to do things on the field. The Bruno and Pep convo post-game, you know, hugging. But like that hug could have turned into like some Greco-Roman wrestling like that. God bless. It was like I've seen that kind of vibe. I've seen it in pubs in Liverpool when I was a kid late night Saturday, where there's like a laughter, but one wrong word said and it could just kick off. You know, went to the cameraman right at it, got in with him.

41:30The frustration, Rob. Pep thrived with teams at Barcelona. and the early David Silva iteration of Manchester City, where, as you've said already, you hurt opponents with paper cuts, origami complex, kaleidoscopic passing, total control. Now he's built this Death Star. It's a frustration that if you can shut down one man, one giant man, City become ultimately vulnerable. I think logically that can't be true. So that if Haaland wasn't there, I think City would still find other ways. they've got too much talent not to do that but they are currently at the moment just too reliant on him to provide the cutting edge and Diaz scores the goal at Newcastle via a deflection from Fabian Scher off a set piece a little bit of a kind of pinballing around the box Foden missed a good chance Cherky played quite well I think creatively but they do look slightly one-dimensional in front of goal and I think that gives opponents hope that if you can shut down Haaland, or even if Haaland just has a quiet day, if he messes up a chance as he did, what, two and a half minutes in at St James' Park, then maybe you can keep City at bay.

42:44And I don't think Pep has quite solved that riddle yet. I can recognise him that his very strength can become instantly his weakness. Well, that's what he's always tried to mitigate against, that he's always wanted to produce these teams that can hurt you in X number of different ways, that control the ball, that control the space, that control the game and decide when they are going to finish it. Whereas now, Erling Haaland decides when Manchester City are going to finish games. And that's not what Pep wants. It's not naturally his thing. Just Google what else can a Death Star do to hurt people, Pep, and I'm sure you'll crack it.

43:16Talking about incredible losses, let's dive into it. I take no pleasure in saying this. We're all Liverpool 0, Nottingham Forest 3. I will say part of the joy of the Premier League being on the international break is that you forget a missed leaf, I think it was called in medieval times. You kind of forget almost magically what happened before the international break kicked in. And then it comes back and it slams you in the face, Liverpool fans. Your team have been losers, seven of the last 10, in eighth place. Last time out, flattened by Manchester City, that Death Star. Once more then, under the breach, my friends, with the bearded safe hands of Alisson, Some welcome back in goal after eight games out.

43:59Alexander Izak flung in from the start to face a Forest team that beat the Reds at Anfield last year for the first time in 55 years. But they're a world away from that outfit, so we were told before this one. Now under the management of scary new stepdad, Sean Dyche. And lost in time also, Ru, is that Liverpool licked at the Forest back line from the off. Mo looked feisty, Gapko humming. Izak, desperate but unable to get himself into the dance. Lost the history almost. Liverpool looked dominant for pretty much the first half hour of this game. You did experience happiness. You were at the game, Roar.

44:34You saw it, fleeting happiness. Yeah, and I actually found being at the game extremely helpful in terms of interpreting what happened. Because you're right, Rog. In fact, I'd go a little bit further. I'd say until the goal, the first goal from Murillo, Liverpool were playing very well. They weren't cutting Forrest apart by any stretch of the imagination, but they created at least two golden opportunities, McAllister and Milos Kierkez, both of them missed, obviously. It's Liverpool. But they were on top. They were playing with confidence, with composure. They looked like they had a plan. They looked like the Liverpool of last season.

45:10And OK, the breakthrough hadn't come, and you saw little signs maybe in front of goal that they were slightly rushing things. But they looked a good team. They looked a side that could put behind them what had happened prior to the international break and start to build up a head of steam. And they then ran into some adversity and everything changed. Yeah, 33 minutes off the corner. Liverpool's vulnerability suddenly this season. They conceded nine league goals from set pieces already this season. And it was Elliot Anderson who floated the ball in. By the way, they didn't concede this many the whole of last season.

45:46This is like how we're scratching our head. What has happened? It was partially cleared, only as far as Murillo. Obstruction from Indoi, possibly. But I don't think I understand the offside rule anymore. That's the only thing I can say here, Roar. It looked to me kind of like the offside that was given against Robertson in the Manchester City game for shielding the eyeliner, the goalkeeper. But I think it's now, is this right? You understand the rules better. It's only offside if you're small and Scottish. There is no consistency in this one at the moment. It's gone the way of handball as well.

46:18The other example from this weekend is, I think, Eze's first goal, where there were two Arsenal players blocking Vicario's eye line. It will make me sound terribly partisan and biased, Rog. All I can think is that they basically got the Robertson one wrong and all the other decisions are correct. It would be a little bit easier to swallow if someone came out and said that, rather than trying to pretend that all of these things are intensely different. They're not. I did see Don Hutchison, who used to play for your boys, Rog, who's a friend of mine. He said on Twitter this week that it was easier when offside just meant offside.

46:51And I've got to admit, with these ones, I think he might be right. I think if you're near the goalkeeper, they probably should just disallow it. That is the easiest thing. That's the easiest way to interpret the rule. and it's also what we did for an awfully long time until they started to mess about with eye lines and active movements. If you're just near the keeper and you're offside, maybe you're just offside. The olden days were better, Rowan. We used to think cigarettes were good for us and, you know, didn't wear safety belts and all those great things. But what was amazing to me was the way Liverpool reacted.

47:27I mean, they couldn't have been more shocked if you slapped them across the face with a giant wet fish. Within three minutes, it was almost two. Igor Jesus ran the ball home. VAR validated a handball that looked very much in my butt like I can't get hit his ribs. It looked very makey-uppy, Cawley. Liverpool were rocked. They tried to exert confidence. It just utterly evaporated. The confidence of defending champions, it just evaporated like that. I've got to talk about Isaac. Don't like singling players out in darkness. But what do you make of him? I couldn't tell if he wasn't just that sharp or Liverpool couldn't get the ball to him.

48:00But then you look at his stats line, 15 touches, seven possessions lost in those 15 touches, no duels won. It's like, it's limp. You know, Slott said before the game that he was going to have to play him to try and get him up to speed. So he was going to play him ahead of people, Hugo Eketike, who are actually fit. And I get that logic. I understand why Slott wants to do that. because he will be operating under the assumption that a fully fit Alexander Izak is an incredible kind of weapon to have at a time when you really need a weapon. But based on that performance, I don't think you can play him.

48:36Whether he's not fit enough or whether it's just not fair to put him into a team that doesn't seem to be able to involve him in the play at all, I think that was a mistake. I think Hugo Eketike would have offered more from the start, would have been more involved as he was when he came on. um izak looked lost and yeah maybe it's fitness maybe it's confidence maybe it's that he isn't yet in tune with his teammates but he can't get involved with the game and to be honest the rest of the liverpool team don't seem to know what to do with him either it's i mean there's a there's probably a parable in there somewhere roger but it's quite sad to watch i mean it's greatest achievement so far you could make the case zero goals in the premier league for liverpool is making you miss Darwin Nunes very, very hard.

49:22It's what that great red Joni Mitchell sang. Don't you always seem to know that you don't know what you've got till Darwin's gone? At halftime, Liverpool had 10 shots to Forrest's four. But my God, it felt game over-ish because Liverpool have gone behind in eight games this season, lost seven of them. Whatever Slott said at halftime, it worked for like in the first 39 seconds of the half because Forrest, stunning move. Liverpool backline switching off all over the show. Salah losing his man. Forrest cut them apart, pull back from former Red, Nico Williams, full back to full back, Savona opened up his body, got that foot shape right, slapped home, a huge amount of space, admittedly, that he had to do it.

50:01God bless it. You have to wonder, what the hell, are the players even listening to what their manager said? But I do ache for you, Roar. I said this to you. I think I may have even texted you. Last season, we spent a lot of time talking about how bloody fun it seems to be a Liverpool fan. You've had it so unbelievably good. The songs, the Grand European Knights, the boss knights, the late wins, even Rio, age 16, scoring for fun at the beginning. This, look, I know this. It's hard to watch crap football. Take it from me, I do know. That's one thing I know. What I want to know is, can you still remember all those good times in this moment, or did I feel so, so long ago?

50:43so in the moment you don't when you see Nicolas Savona score a second for Nottingham Forest you don't think ah well I remember 2005 when they won the Champions League that's fine be alright in the moment it hurts watching your team lose is not something you ever get used to I don't think I don't know whether if you support a team that is habitually and look there are teams who have worse fates than Everton Rog but if you support a team that is habitually I don't know bottom of lead one I don't know whether maybe after a while the defeat doesn't hurt as much but in in the in the broader context once you've kind of managed to internalize the result and digest what's happened and and understand it and as I say I found being present at Anfield to watch Liverpool get beaten heavily was a much easier way I came to terms with it much more quickly than watching them on TV get beaten heavily why well I think as you understand the texture of the defeat So I know that they were good for 30 minutes.

51:42And I know that as soon as they faced that adversity of the goal, the Marilla goal, that they didn't have an energy level to kind of get the intensity back to find a way to counteract Nottingham Forest. I know that Forest played extremely well. And I can start to think, and I'm sure lots of fans operate the same, you can start to sort of see explanations for it. You can see what you think the manager's doing wrong, but you also know the stuff that isn't really on him, that's on the players. You can see that Kyrgyz, this is a brief list, Kyrgyz, McAllister, Canate and Izak should not be in the team, that they are not playing well enough to warrant being in the team.

52:19You can see that Slott, and he said this himself and I thought it was a really interesting line, he took off Canate after the second goal for Eketike and that was the exact same move he used in the away game at Forest last season when they were 1-0 down, similar performance against a similarly kind of intense Forest team. And he took off Granate and brought on Jota. And within a minute, Jota scored the equaliser. And he did it this time. And Hugo Echitica, you will have noticed, did not score the equaliser. And Slott said afterwards, you know, last year when I did it, it looked brave. This year, people will say it's stupid.

52:52And that is the kind of fine line, that he made the same change to a totally different effect. And yet you can kind of get, OK, I get why he did that. I get what he was thinking. He wanted to go 3-3-4. And the more attackers he threw on, the fewer chances Liverpool created. So I think being there, you get a sense of the scale of the problem. And that enables you to set your expectations for when it might be solved. I got a text from my Liverpool supporting producer, Jalisa Castredale. She texted me and said, I feel like someone writing home during the Civil War. Dear Martha, it has been many months since we last felt the sun-splendid warmth on our skin which kind of captures, I mean, I felt like that for years is the honest truth as an Everton fan but you're right, we did a show two months ago about how you saw Isaac and Eketike playing together little did we imagine it would occur when you were 2-0 down to Forrest at home and the Forrest fans were singing it on a slot, you're getting sacked in the morning I mean, this is football, Forrest so bloody organised Elliot Anderson on the present.

54:00Liverpool had all the possession, all the passes, all the stats, but they couldn't lay a glove on Sean Dyche-Forest, who killed off the game. Morgan Gibbs-White driving home effortlessly. It felt like a defenestration. It was that shocking. I do believe this collapse, big picture, will be studied by historians like the fall of Rome or at least Bill Belichick at North Carolina. There's so many footballers who look lost. You've named some of them. Kirkez, afraid, skittish, miserable. Canate, they're in body but not in spirit. Wayne Rooney said this morning, Slott has to start benching Mo Salah, who's hurting the team by not tracking back.

54:39Who would you drop to bring this team back to life ASAP? I don't think it's that simple. I think, as I say, Canate, Kirkez, McAllister, Izak, I don't think you can make a footballing case for them to be in the team at the moment. The issue they have around Canate is that they clearly don't trust Joe Gomez to stay fit. Joe Gomez is so important to them, they can't play him. That's the curiosity of the situation around the central defenders. I actually thought Salah was pretty good against Forrest. I thought he looked better than he has in previous weeks. Wayne Rooney is right. The lack of defensive work is not ideal, but I think Slott seems to have alighted upon a solution to that, which is playing Sobber's Light and Curtis Jones as right-backs.

55:21But the whole team doesn't look like it works anymore. And, you know, we're what, a month out since Virgil called his emergency team meeting. It's not worked. Amazingly, it doesn't seem to me to be a problem of, it's not that they're not trying. I don't think that's true. I don't think it's that the players are not trying. I think that somewhere in the mix of bedding in new players, of adapting to a new system, of working out how to function with the grief of what happened with Jota, that Liverpool's players, lost is a great word, they look lost, they look like they don't know what they're supposed to be doing anymore.

55:58I don't think they have the ability now to get to the intensity that you need to compete with a team like Forest, and that is most of the teams in the Premier League. It will be West Ham next week. West Ham will be intense, and I think Liverpool will start out fine. And the question basically is, do Liverpool score first, or do the opponents score first? If Liverpool score first, I think they stand the chance of getting a point, getting a win, because the confidence then comes back and the game state shifts. So Liverpool can then impose the way they want to play the game on their opponents. As things stand, as soon as Liverpool concede, they lose.

56:32That's it. They don't seem to have that extra gear. And I think that extra gear has been lost because of everything that's happened. All of those things that have happened in the last few months. And how you get that back, I have no idea. I mean, the Jota loss is the great unknown. When we're trying to fathom all of this, I think Virgil said post-game, his comments were really honest and severe. This is a mess. Let's call it that. That's what it is. It was fascinating seeing Andy Robertson in his moment of glory, the delirious Scotland World Cup qualification, immediately go to the cameras and say, I'm thinking about my friend Diogo today, which led to Arna Slott addressing it, an issue which has not really been talked about.

57:14We lack just basic sense of the grief, which is no doubt just utterly clinging to the players in that locker room. He said, we missed Diogo, yes, as a player and a person. Liverpool elected, and there's no right way in grief to not talk about that at the beginning of the season. It's an input we will never understand. I think the story of this season will be told. I was on Morning Joe this morning. They were like, what's wrong with Liverpool? And in my head, I'm like, do I get into this? Do I not get into this? It's too much to unpack almost in a very quick television hit. I do think the story of this season will only be told in years to come when the players start to write about it, when it's written about in biographies and also biographies of years to come.

57:59So we can only analyse it from a footballing perspective. And to lose one game 3-0 can be considered a shock. but that first one was to Manchester City at the Etihad it's almost understandable to lose the next one by the exact same thumping at home to Forest looks like what Virgil said it looks like a mess rule this is I think the first time it's happened to lose back-to-back 3-0 for Liverpool since 1965 but you look at this season I mean Liverpool won their first five games we awarded them the title but they've won just once since six losses in their last seven as many as in the last 58. Here, Slott outcoached by Sean Dyche, who becomes the sixth manager to beat the defending champions.

58:47It is really humanly remarkable. There is no doubt rationally Slott has done enough by winning the title in his first season to have huge amounts of credit in the bank as the cliche is. I'm not a hot taker, but for Liverpool, knowing how critical Champions League football is, in 11th place right now. I looked at that second half, just how bewildered he seemed. The conversation about Slott being done, it's one where the volume, I'm not a hot taker, but that volume is going to get absolutely riotous with PSV coming and then West Ham away next weekend. Yeah, it's... Liverpool are a pretty rational club by the standards of football teams.

59:28The Jota thing, I think, will feed into that as well, that they will be absolutely aware behind the scenes that Slott is facing an incredibly difficult thing to manage. And also that we shouldn't forget he'll be affected by it as well. It's not just the players, it's him mourning too. He's affected by grief. But then they're rational by football club standards and there will come a point, if they continue to lose, where someone has to make a difficult decision. He is not immune. I think of all the clubs to hit this kind of run with, Liverpool will probably give you the longest. I mean, maybe Arsenal would be up there, but I mean if he was Chelsea manager he'd been sacked already if he was United manager probably the same maybe not if he was Ruben Amorim and he kind of you know Jim Ratcliffe had decided to invest entirely in that one guy but I think pretty much any club would already have moved Liverpool will give him as long as they can but that is not an infinite weight and you're completely right Rog he looks like he does not know how to solve it I don't I mean I don't I obviously don't have the solution Rog because I'm not paid to have a solution I'm paid to criticise and pick holes and things but there was no point in that game where you thought Arna Slott has got an idea of what to do here it ended like a lot of Liverpool games either the games they won and to be fair I think we said this at the time that they were winning all the games a lot of Liverpool games even in that early run ended with an awful lot of strikers on the pitch and Virgil van Dijk up front and that is not ideal it looks increasingly like Slott is desperately casting around for a solution and not finding one.

1:01:04And that is not something that can go on forever at a team like Liverpool. The one caveat, they are 11th. They are only three points off fourth. Like last season with City, the rest of the league will wait for them and that might be what saves Slott. But he's going to have to find some way of turning the ship around very, very quickly. Credit Nottingham Forest, first team to stop Liverpool from scoring a Premier League goal at Anfield since... Dot, dot, Nottingham Forest last season. Back-to-back wins at Anfield for the first time since 1963. These are all just astonishing statistics. Put some respect on Sean Deitch's name because Forest are in that huge Ange-Postacoglu tailspin and a month later, they're out the bottom three, moving a little in the Europa League and feeling dangerous.

1:01:49Talking about feeling dangerous, and Sean Deitch, Burnley 0, Chelsea 2 at Turf Moor. Burnley's defence, which was championship resilient. It's been very, very, very Premier League permeable. Going up against Chelsea, hottest scorers in the Premier League. Chelsea still without Cole Palmer. Just on the cusp of coming back, our boy, only to have a fight with the door. Broke his little toe, incredibly painful. Is that the most Cole Palmer injury that ever Cole Palmer drew? It's going to be up there. Yeah, it depends what the door did, I suppose. Yeah, by the way, I bet you Cole Palmer got into an argument with the door.

1:02:25like, what are you looking at? And that's how it kicked off. The only thing that could be more Cole Palmer is if he hurt himself by standing on Lego pieces, which are all over. I mean, without Cole Palmer, it was a slow burn. Probably more excited to watch that Cole Palmer pay-per-view rumble with the door than this spectacle. Chelsea lethargic, Burnley sprightly positive, but blunt in the real, in the Kenny Loggins danger. So no action in the final third. I typed in the MIB Discord that the game screamed, This game will be over once Chelsea snap to life and create. And within about 20 seconds, I crap you not, Chelsea moved the ball forward.

1:03:03Gittins arced a curling deep ball far post. Neto unmarked, stooped to conquer. Jose Mourinho always used to say, you can smell a goal before it comes. This one utterly stank. Fragile belief of Burnley, gone. Chelsea controlled the rest of the game, put it to sleep with a one moment, a true quality. second half football, 88th minute full field move, back to front, 18 seconds, starting with your malign goalkeeper Robert Sanchez, supported by Todd Burley this week, Todd knows ball, deserved an assist honestly for the unfazed way in which he unlocked the move, Neto poem of the pass to free Gouy, who was so strong so smart to roll it back for Enzo to dagger the win, really this goal was like a David Silva Manchester City Pep era, finished that pull back and the easy slap.

1:03:52Maresca going bonkers on the sideline. That moment, to me, was the sign of the release of the pressure that he's under in a week in which his team faces Barcelona next and then the Arsenal. Yeah, he knows that he has an entire country on his side, Roch. He is the one man that stands between Arsenal and a Premier League title. And he knows that there is, that he has the support of Tottenham fans, Manchester United fans. there is he's our last great hope for a title race Enzo Maresca don't be a hater people be a lover you can love both Arsenal and admire I adore Maresca I adore Maresca probably more than most Chelsea fans oddly love Maresca do you think he should stop wearing leisure wear as I do why what would you have what would you have him wear I think you should dress like like a grown up who's in public rather than like a like a toddler at home I'd bad honestly Enzo do not listen to the haters I think you are perfect.

1:04:46If you know what Enzo should wear, a little clown suit maybe. I think Enzo would actually look incredible with just like a little tear tattoo. He's a beautiful, beautiful human being. That brain, that chest brain is to me utterly one of the storylines. I root for that man more than I can say. By the way, I also root for Burnley, 19th place now. There is fight there. They just like Everton actually, like a number of teams, lack the money for a clinical striker, which I think separates so many aspirations from realities in this Premier League. But they do look different to their last run in the top flight.

1:05:20The fear for them, West Ham have found some energy. Forrest have found a real pulse. Scott Parker, who's always well-dressed for Rory. He is, yeah. Yeah, must do. He's too well-dressed. He's too, honestly, to me, he's too well-dressed. There's got to be a happy medium, Rog, between wearing your pyjamas to work, which is what Enzo does, and go in full suit, which isn't really necessary anymore. It's 2025. There has to be a happy medium. He's going like full Ukes Uber designer on the cheap for Scott Parker on the discount store. I like the pyjamas. I've got to say, I love their ethos. You're essentially saying to the opponent, look, I can just roll out of bed and not even get changed and still beat you.

1:06:00I think the optics of that are stunning. To other games, Bournemouth 2. What? West Ham 2. Callum Wilson, a former cherry, scoring his first brace in two years against the Golden Wall Bournemouth. Second was the touch of a tender lover in our Discord. Made in Bournemouth wrote, 74 % possession for Bournemouth and we're down by two. 52nd minute. Callum Wilson taken off for Suchek. Nuno trying to lock the game down. The Raiders voice, they did not lock the game down. the cherry struck back twice in nine minutes, rumble back, a point to staunch the bleeding from two straight losses for my darling golden war cherries.

1:06:42We both adore Bournemouth Raw, but that ceiling that they're trying to break to, I've thought a lot about them. You know, it's like, I had a neighbor in Liverpool who spent years trying to rebuild an old Ferrari, and every time he'd had time to work on it, genuinely, overnight bits would just get stolen. You know, we'd wake up, the wheels would be gone in the mood, like the ornament fob would be ripped off or like the bumpers. It was just like never ending. Eventually, he just left the thing on the curb with a sign on it saying, Nick it all, you bastards, which is very Liverpool. Watching Semenya have his head turned, like Manchester United coming in, Liverpool coming in, possibly going in January.

1:07:22Is this just Bournemouth's fate to do well and then just Ferrari? Yeah, I mean, it does make it sound a little bit like you were the person stealing the bits of the Ferrari, Rog, just so you know. But yes, but I think Andoni Araiola still has been weathering that throughout his time at Bournemouth. No matter who they lose, they don't appear to kind of suffer for it. I think they did this last season as well. They have purple patches and they have moments where it's just a little bit trickier for them. And they are in the latter at the moment. They aren't clicking quite as they were, what, six weeks ago maybe.

1:07:59they are running into teams who maybe are coming up with specific plans to stop the things that Irola's teams do it's all slightly harder and you are kind of permanently building a team because elements of that team are going to leave either in January or in the summer and that is a really tricky managerial job so even though it's a bit disappointing to see them I think 10th or 9th now that is still amazing given the circumstances at Bournemouth. It's so heartbreaking as well because ultimately Iroh Ola in his last contractual year will probably decide to just go and work in the Ferrari dealership in the end of the day.

1:08:36You know what I mean? Go to a bigger club. It's possibly the only long-term solve. And that, that breaks my heart. Full and one. Oh, Sunderland nil. Talking about managers I admire. One of the stories of this young season. Sunderland, the Black Cats returning for the international break in fourth place. After that, heroic 2-2 come back, draw win against the Arsenal two weeks ago. I had Reggie Labrice, their manager, on last week. I asked him, I said to him, have you gotten this squad with like 40 new players from 10 different countries, nine different leagues? Have you made them all chemistry coalesce together so quickly?

1:09:12And he just looked at me with this kind of like Gallic laugh and just said, I don't know, which I just love. You can see that entire conversation. He's such an incredible modern brain of a manager, academic almost, on our YouTube. links in our show notes below and the notorious RLB took his squad south to God bless Craven Cottage and Cursor Rog delivered their worst performance of the season I was told they were struggling Fulham they'd lost 5 of the last 6 Sunderland suddenly looked very much like the newly promoted team that they are trying to grind out a moment on the road, created almost nothing had to survive 24 shots from Fulham, 84th minute they wilted when El Trees Raul Jimenez got his big Mexican boot on a Samuel Chukwese cross God bless.

1:10:01Fulham's first win of the season where Ongol hasn't scored which is an amazing statistic. They're up to 15th now Sunderland just their third loss of the season. What does that prove Roar other than that nothing will ruin your fast start to the season more than the interview of all Rog? Yeah there is a curse there. I feel the same about Bill Foley and Bournemouth to be honest We did it together we have restored order to the Premier League. What it proves is that the problem with the Premier League is it keeps going, that you keep having to play more football matches. That's the main issue. And look, Fulham I think are one of those teams that desperately needed a win.

1:10:38They'd started to acquire that very troubling kind of aura of the team that's going to silently slip into trouble. So it was a really important win for Marco Silva's team. But for Sunderland, a newly promoted side, losing 1-0 at Fulham is not, that is probably par, to be perfectly honest. And the points they've got already set them up brilliantly for the rest of the season. So it's no disaster for Sunderland, but it's maybe a little bit of a reminder of where they are in the pecking order. If you keep me scoring at home, I've got William Saliba coming on this week. I do, apologies to everybody.

1:11:11This is all on me. Brighton 2, Brentford 1, Fabian Herzler rung up his 50th Premier League game in charge in fine form, come from behind win. Why people keep taking the lead on Brighton is just crazy to me. They've gained a lead leading 10 points after conceding first. Just stop scoring on them, for God's sake. Q, the now contractually obliged Welbeck for England goal. Fantastic finish, to be candid. And a Jack Hinshawood winner. But the real hero, goalkeeper Bart Verbruggen swooped to defy. Igor Thiago, a second penalty strike deep into stoppage time to maintain the win. Sixth place. The stealth story no one's talking about, Rourke?

1:11:50Kind of, but then Brighton often not sixth. This is just what Brighton are, it's what they do. We're kind of used to them being there, I think. God, I adore Brighton and Hove Albion. They are like genuinely, they're the crystal palace of Brighton and Hove Albion right now. Leeds one, Aston Villa two. Game soaked in football heritage. Villa trying to break into the top four. They'd won eight at their last 10 old comps. Leeds in the opposite. Extessential reality, floundering in the relegation zone. At kick-off, loser of four out of the last five. Their manager, Daniel Farker, on the thin ice of the rumour mill.

1:12:27But the feral bear pit of Allen Road was filled with an odd emotion. Joy, in just the eighth minute, early contender for crap gold of the season. Ball skyward like a shallow pot fly. Emi Martinez, God bless him, oddly meek as he tried to claim it. Scramble led to Konso smashing the ball off Leeds' human backboard. German ex-Manchester City Youth Academy product, Lucas Mecha. to make it 1-0. Villadou, tenacious. Failed to win the first five games of the season, remember, but they forced their way back into this as they had an incredible habit of doing. Goal within three minutes of the start. Across to Morgan Rodgers to lift in.

1:13:06Then the same player dispatched. An artful, just knuckleball of a free kick. It was like watching R.A. Dickey rise up onto a football field. Goalkeeper probably will want a second look at that one. Leeds did have the ball in the net within like 10 seconds of the kickoff, but God bless. Beautiful, beautiful Dominic Calvert-Lewin ruled off for a handball. Where was VAR? Well, Maradona handballed in 1986. For Leeds, it's a bit of a cold, cold winter to go all rolling stones on your ass. Five defeats in six. They've got Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool to come. That is a gauntlet for Farker. But Villa, Roar, you know that chant you only sing when you're winning, which fans love to mock their opponents?

1:13:47There's also, you only moan about PSR, profit and sustainability rules, when you're losing. Villa, fourth, point behind Manchester City, winners of nine at the last 11. What's the difference between them now and the team that didn't score in their first four games? It's hard to say, Rog, to be honest. I think that there was an element of kind of falsehood about those defeats really early on. Villa, they are where they should be. This is what they are. They are a team more than capable of challenging for a Champions League place, that they will keep on the coattails of the elite. They beat City at home, which kind of proves that point fairly nicely.

1:14:21Their home form is amazing, and they look once again like an Unai Emery team. They're really well organised, they're really smart, they know how to win games, and they are where they should be. Talking about where they should be, beloved Crystal Palace at Walls. Walls nil, Crystal Palace, Tee, Wolverhampton Wanderers. Now under new management, Rob Edwards, deserting second in the championship table, Middlesbrough, for this. A team he played for, a team he lives right by, a team he was once assistant coach at, but a team rooted to the bottom. Zero wins on the season. I think there was fleeting joy for him when he was announced to the home faithful.

1:14:59My God, it must have been like watching this for him. It must have, it must have felt like David Byrne in like once in a lifetime. This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife. My God, what have I done? Palace, no Elise, No A's A, but still so exquisite. Ran rampant. Second goal, if you've not seen it, by Jeremy Pino, was just an arc of truth. For Rob Edwards, the statistics are terrifying. Wolves, two points in 12 games, third fewest in top flight history, behind Manchester United in 1931, Sheffield United, of course, in 2021. Wolves have lost their last five Premier League games with their last three coming under a different manager, which is just, oh my God, Vito Pereira, James Collins and Mr Rob Edwards.

1:15:45At Sauer, a Wolves fan in our Discord wrote, Hi, Rog. I'd like to return my manager, please. It didn't come with a new manager bounce. Thank you. Yeah, Wolves might need a bit more than that, I think. They do look like a club that has been allowed to drift for too long. And when Rob Edwards took the job, I did wonder whether it would be easier to keep Wolves in the Premier League from this position or get Borough promoted from second in the Championship. And the Championship is complete chaos, Rog. If anything, being second in the Championship in November is a terrible idea. You want to be 17th.

1:16:19If you're 17th, you'll get promoted. If you're second, you might get relegated. The Championship is a nonsense of a league. And I've got to admit, I think there's a decent chance that he passes Middlesbrough going the other way this summer, to be perfectly honest, because it's really hard to see Wolves surviving from here. But look, we can't hand the title to Arsenal just yet and we can't relegate Wolves. Things change in football. It's true. Football teaches us we all know nothing apart from Wolves are done. This afternoon, we have to reason my weekend was so bloody good, which is that Everton haven't yet played.

1:16:51We lose tonight at Old Trafford. United on a five-game unbeaten run. Yes, that's not haircut territory. Yes, Mateus Cunha is a game-time decision after a mysterious train-round accident suffered on Saturday. I don't think it will make a difference. I just hate this statistic. No team. There's more Premier League wins against another side than Manchester United's 42 against Everton Football Club. It was last year, Roar, this game, 4-0 win at Old Trafford. Ruben Amarin famously said, a storm will come. A man who knew, Roar, he knew there'd be no more haircuts. Exactly, that haircuts were over and you needed the protection of a big thatch.

1:17:32It's, I don't know, I think Everton are going okay. I think they're the sort of team that might be able to give United a bit of a problem tonight. I wouldn't be quite as negative. I think we're going to get thumped and pumped. But I also like to speak my worst fears into existence, says a therapist, to protect myself against them and try and mitigate this thing. So let's go to a letter to close from Sam Larson, who calls himself a South Carolinian studying in Provo, Utah, at the Great Brigham Young University. Roar, do the honours. Dear Roger and Rory, I, like the great gaffer Rory Smith, that's me, coach youth football.

1:18:07With snow soon on the way, our fall season is wrapping up and I recently had my last session with one of my teams. I didn't have much of a plan and wanted to make sure they had fun to finish out the year. We ended up spending a large part of practice on free kits and throw-ins. I didn't think much of it until my wife asked me why I decided to work on those things with them. I quickly realised that set plays were on my mind solely because of the Premier League. For context, these were 11-year-old girls I was coaching. Have either of you had similar experiences? where Premier League influence has seeped into daily life without you realising.

1:18:39And is there any hope for those of us that experience this? Cheers, Sam Larson. Sam Larson, the one thing I'd say, the wives are always wisdom in every single family. I love that your wife's like, what the hell are you doing, man? The only Premier League thing that comes to mind immediately for me that I relate to is being bald, Rural. It's probably my most Premier League thing. Slot, Mareska, Rog. But coach to coach, that's what Sam's asking. in your life or not just your football coaching life but in your life is there any Premier League influence where you feel like you're living a moment stolen from the script writers I think I am I think I use a lot of Premier League hand gestures in daily life I would say not the rude ones but I quite often sort of do a substitution if I need to if I need to change things around or if I need to symbolise well if I come back walking the walk in the dark and I need to sort of get a message to my wife through a window Rog I might just give it a little quick kind of yep try and communicate through mime that feels quite Premier League give your wife the double wanker sign absolutely not, will never give my wife the double wanker sign not an option keep going other than that do we not all feel a little bit like we're in the Premier League script writer's fever dream do we not all feel that that's the narrative arc of our lives, maybe that's just me but I mean what happens in the Premier League does a lot to define my mood and my experience of life but I'd say it's mainly the hand gestures that I've taken from the Premier League.

1:20:05It's so funny, the hand gesture more than any other that I've taken from the Premier League is Illy and Dye's goal celebration I do find myself doing that often now like genuinely it's just, it's like a commonal part of like if I see a GFOP on the street and I'm on the phone and they say I'm always like, I just give them a little illy but I do it subconsciously Do you do a lot of talking behind your hand? What, that? Do you cover your mouth to talk? Is there another way to talk in public? No. We should start podcasting like this, Rog. By the way, we talk about the world in AD and BC, like that division.

1:20:44I think ultimately you can also arguably divide world history into a time before we realise that we should start talking behind our hand and after it. The world's kind of fallen apart, Ro, since we all started. Since we all started talking behind our hands. I mean, we should be open. We can't expect there to be lip readers everywhere. I think it's mainly in terms of Premier League influence on my life. I think it's probably it's mainly hand gestures. Do we think Sam sort of feels as though he's given press conferences regularly? Or, you know, is there a sensation where you feel as though you are a manager continually under pressure, which is the main Premier League experience for everybody?

1:21:17That maybe that's true. Oh, my God. I love that. I love I would also love any American that has built a Premier League press conference background in their own home. so that they go that's genuinely like that taking that into your own life to that degree is that I told Trevor Noah we were chatting about this on stage at the Stone Pony often my life just feels like one long cruel var of you which I do I do think is true but I will say to pull this podcast full circle I look at moments like AJ's third goal against the Spurs just the crowd bouncing his own teammates losing their minds and AJ just surging, trying to keep the emotion in.

1:21:58You know, a moment in which all the work, all the sacrifice, all the loss, all the failure had just flipped and come through all of it. His dreams made real. His most long-harbored desire proven. The ecstasy just kicking in. I have felt a version of that, an end for that in fleeting moments, mostly around like my kids' celebrations, watching them in major life moments. And I just, I do hope, I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, Sam, but in those moments every week, I do, my instinct, I watch them and I just hope that all of us, all of you, for at least a couple of moments in your life get to feel even an nth of what A.J.

1:22:40felt in our lives, even if it's fleeting. I think that's quite depressing is you probably don't, do you? You probably don't get to feel that amount of joy. I hope, at what point do you think, I mean, maybe the birth of your kids, you'd feel the same joy you'd feel storing a hat-trick in a North London derby for the team you've always supported. But I've got to remember when my kids were born, Rog, I was mainly just terrified. That was my abiding. There was no, like, Dettel and Rice wasn't piling on to me to celebrate. I was just sort of stood there thinking, this feels like a lot of work coming up.

1:23:11That was my main thing. It's a wish, Ru. It's just a wish, is all I will say. I want to give huge thanks to you, Sam, for writing in. keep those letters coming menandblazers at gmail.com we adore each and every comment we also want to give huge thanks to Bank of America the official bank of US soccer and the FIFA World Cup 2026 for supporting the entire Men in Blazers media network discover what's possible in sports and in life what would you like the power to do I'd like the power to tell you one more thing which is we got a beautiful new merch store online shop.menandblazers.com we just launched it a couple of days ago there's a whole load of essentials in one place for all of you listen to any part of our network Men in Blazers, the Women's Game, Vamos and more it's so beautiful to have this thing live and in the world get yourself something for the holidays for those Premier League weekends I'm grateful for your support it allows us to do more when you come over to New York City for our World Cup draw event on December 5th then Boston December 6th will have you clad head to toe in that trip.

1:24:21That would be ideal. There's some nice stuff in that shot. Yeah, get some on Enzo Maresco and this whole show will. Oh no, Roger, I thought we've set the parameters now. I'll be doing both of those shows in my pyjamas. Apparently that's okay. That's how we roll, baby. We're in New York City this week, then Raw comes out next week for the World Cup action. Boston, I can't tell you how great that show is going to be. Rory, Clint Dempsey, Sam Mewis, Gomez, two massive, massive guests. shortly to be announced. I'll be back with Rory on European Nights tomorrow. James Horncastle joins me live Wednesday on the big match breakdown.

1:24:56Come be with us after the final whistle of Arsenal-Bayern. But Ror, huge thanks to you, you Crown Prince of Harrogate. I regret getting dressed. This is Ror, sending you big love. Let's not take a second of watching football together for granted. Encourage.