Aston Villa topple Arsenal and Mo Salah Drama in Liverpool: Men in Blazers 12/08/25

25:44That's pretty good. They've lost at Anfield and they've lost at Villa Park. Those games are difficult and teams can win the league without going unbeaten. It happens literally all of the time. There are two exceptions in 140 years of the league championship. You lose games. You can afford to lose in this Premier League probably five or six games over the course of the season and be fine. And if that's at Anfield and Villa Park, no problem. But the challenge that Arsenal face, you're right, Rog, is psychological. that they've come close in various different ways in the last three years. They've led and let it slip.

26:18They've chased and fallen short. Last season, they've kind of allowed Liverpool rope and just never, ever managed to wind it back in. In their last five games, they've won two, drawn two, lost one. That's not disastrous, but it is a slowing of the momentum. And the challenge for Arsenal's players is to keep their cool and their composure while that happens and to continue to pick up the points they can until they build a little bit more momentum again. And you're right, having Wolves at home in the next Premier League game, that's good. Everton, and I say this sincerely, Rog, it will sound sarcastic, Everton are quite a good example of the challenge of this lead because normally you'd say, yeah, three points for Arsenal, not a problem at all.

27:00But suddenly Everton have hit a bit of form. This maybe isn't a great time to play Everton. But between now and the time they actually do play Everton, Everton might have lost twice. You've got no idea. So yeah, it could well be that they go to the Hill Dickinson and that is another challenge they have to pass or it might be a little bit more comfortable. But then you have Brighton, you've got Villa again. It's going to be a difficult month. We will find out a lot about Arsenal over the next few weeks. I think when I sat down with Mikel Arteta at the beginning of the season, the theme we really discussed was, you know, it's hard to come second.

27:33It's actually an incredible feat. But how do you know that's not your identity? How do you persuade this set of footballers that you're not that, you're actually this? And I do, I think this mental challenge in this moment, this is a moment where like, oh my God, we are this. We are the second. We're not, that doubt, the hello darkness, my old friend moment, persuading them. No, no, no. We're not that. We're not what we have been. We are going up. We are ascending. How that is handled and how that stays within the collective anxiety, fear, doubt, how that's left outside. The resetting of focus is going to be really, really critical to watch.

28:09I guess what I'm saying is release the pickpockets. Leeds 3, Liverpool 3. Talking about Hello Darkness, my old friend. Let's go there. A drunk and quite destructive game that sobered up very, very, very quickly for Liverpool after the final whistle. We'll talk about the game as opposed to the game within the game. The Mo Salah burning down the house. Let's start with, you know, first, the football. Raw, Leeds, it was just Leeds. Yes, Leeds fresh off shocking Chelsea 3-1 and probably shocking themselves even more in the process. Liverpool with Izak and a gloomy, despondent Mo Salah on the bench and for the quite tentative opening half, neither team managed to summon a shot on target.

28:53I think the most exciting part was Dom Sobersly experimenting with his hair. You had Conor Bradley charging around, Kyrgyz launching shots into galaxies far, far away. And then, I don't like to overplay my hand a bit, big myself up here, but then Roar and I met at halftime, walked around the corner from our hotel to the nearby bar, the Liverpool bar, the incredible bar to be candid, the remarkable Phoenix landing. And I crap you not, Roar, did we not walk in and Liverpool scored immediately twice? Within, so I think the door had not closed on us entering the bar when Hugh Dweckertike put the ball past Lucas Perry.

29:33I think it was hard to tell, Rog, whether the 70 or 80 Liverpool fans in there were cheering for the goal or cheering for you. It was impossible to tell. It was for James Horncastle. It might have been for James Horncastle. When Liverpool score, I want to thank everyone that felt the need and the design. I understand it and I embrace it to walk up to me and put a finger in my face. I enjoyed it. I deserved it. I don't know, just by breathing. I was sharing in the joy. This place was mobbed. There was genuinely not an inch to be the singing, the smell of breakfast that I would have loved, but there was no way we could get close to the bar.

30:10The bar was going bonkers. Eketike, first league start in almost a month, I think, scored not just once, but twice. And everything felt great again. Even though, to be candid, when he scored the second time, I have a Liverpool support, mad for it, producer Jalisa Castredale. She texted me, December 6th, 23rd game of the season, and Ekotike is the first Liverpool player to score more than once in a game for the Reds in all comps. That was astonishing. It kind of captures a lot of the pain of the season, Raw. But in that moment, the game was won. Leeds were dead. Yeah, and look, the way the afternoon played out and then the evening means that this will be lost in the midst of time.

30:54But Liverpool had done really well until that point. Leeds came into that game having given Manchester City a real scare last weekend, beating Chelsea. This will be lost to quite a lot of Americans, but Leeds-Chelsea is a big game for Leeds. Leeds really hate Chelsea. It's not far off a derby. I'm sure Chelsea fans don't see it that way anymore, but Leeds fans definitely do. So that's a big occasion for Leeds. And then they'd matched Liverpool for that first half. It wasn't a great game, but it was a Leeds team that were playing quite well. and Liverpool had done at that point a really professional job.

31:30They'd shut the game down in the first half and then they'd been given a gift and one thing that, I think I said this to you in the bar, the one thing that hasn't happened to Liverpool in this horrible run of form is no one's given them a present. Sometimes you need someone to give you a present and the first goal for Eketike is a poor pass, I think, from Ethan Ampadu and Liverpool take the lead and suddenly the world kind of changes. If that had happened six weeks ago, perhaps Liverpool would be in a different position. Sometimes you need a little bit of luck to go your way. And at that point, and for the next, what, 10, 15 minutes?

32:02Amazing. Liverpool were controlled and composed and looked like a team that was in the Champions League playing a team that has recently been promoted from the Championship. Yeah, I mean, I will say in that moment, not to put the pain and the angst and the agony and the trauma of millions of Liverpool fans around the world into a selfish lens, because, you know, it's not what I do. But I was just like, oh, thank God, I'm not going to get my teeth kicked in in this bar. And then Liverpool go, and I think their football tactical term is go and crap the bed. Insecure decision making. By the way, Liverpool had this game won.

32:35They really, really did. And on a slots team, I'm old enough to remember when they were a clinical team last season who could just shut teams down. But here, they completely imploded of the mind, the soul, the heart, the football, conceded twice within two minutes. First, Canate slid recklessly, needlessly, almost tried intentionally, when you look at it the way he raised his foot, to clip substitute Neontae, when he could have just let the little Italian with Kevin Hart's physique run out of bounds. Raw, DCL, God bless him. When he went to the penalty spot, I was praying, and I'm not a religious man for him.

33:11You know, I only saw a darkness. Thank God I'm so happy for him. Slammed home the penalty. Three and three starts for beautiful, beautiful Dom. but this was headless this was unnecessary is Canarte again author again of Liverpool's downfall Yeah it was an infuriating decision from Canarte who as you know Arnest Lott would say afterwards after the game he's been at the scene of the crime a little bit too much this season and that is absolutely right and it's a shame that there's not someone at the club whose job it is not to play the person who keeps giving away goals By the way that was some choice of words much that was crazy It's really not a great thing to say from slot I think that's absolutely true there have been goals that that Canate has been responsible for that have been kind of understandable mistakes you know like he's misjudged the flight of the ball and it's not it's not to say that they're okay it's just you think okay that is a player who's short of confidence short of form he's made an error and you feel a little pound of sympathy the penalty was totally stupid it was it as you say entirely unnecessary in the circumstances where Liverpool were about to get quite an important three points it was just totally needless and it seemed so so telegraphed he was sliding for about five yards before he dropped to nyonto in a situation where you did not need to make a tackle i don't i cannot in any way what three days on as we record i don't understand why he did it two minutes later though ellen road settings at raucous levels it was actually it was higher than And that was like bloody bear pit, tiny New Jersey dancer, Brendan Aaronson.

34:42Another substitute, by the way. We'll get to Farker in a second. But Neonten and Aaronson, that was him making managerial changes of Unai Emery decision-making level, saying, you know, I don't fear them. I'm going to go for it. I tried to be cautious first off. It didn't work. I have no choice now but to go all for it. And Aaronson met at the moment. Fine ball. To Anton Stack to slam home. And it was gobsmacking again. 2-2. the goal just a stab to the heart but I was really mesmerised in that moment there was a quick cut away it was only it was less than a second to Virgil van Dijk his reaction in that moment if you watch the goal again see it because it was kind of like a spasm the agony the helplessness the synapse confusion it's happening again and we are powerless to stop it Yeah I think we talked about the psychological challenge for Villa and for Arsenal but for Liverpool it's in game it's the fact that they were on what the 69th 70th minute they were cruising and then by 75 it's two all and i think you can see the players have this this doubt that is eating away at their core they have they are you know you can almost see the lack of confidence in real playing out in real time they know they must have that sinking feeling it's unfathomable it is doubt but they also don't understand it that's what with that second goal it was like i it's happening again and i i who can do everything, who can repel.

36:07You know, I can repel 10 men on my own. I've done these feats of strength. We've won things. I don't understand this. I mean, the other thing that nobody would understand is quite how Anton Stack appeared in Liverpool's box with about seven yards of space around him and then got the ball into three or four touches and nobody made a tackle. I mean, that in itself is unfathomable. But yeah, for Van Dijk, there's an argument that maybe he's not taking enough responsibility. He does seem to be in a finger-pointing stage of his career. But I think for all of them more broadly, there must just be a sense of why does this keep happening to us?

36:43And I suppose actually thinking about it, maybe the question should be why do we keep doing this? They're active in it. They're complicit in it. They're not passive victims of some exterior force. This is their fault. It's their flaws. And yeah, I think what you're seeing is kind of an existential crisis, not just as a team, but as a collection of individuals. Yeah, I mean, football is cruel and there would be more cruel misdirection. Ten minutes to go, Liverpool took the lead. Again, a Cody Gapho pass found Sobersly after a quite stunning decoy step over from McAllister. The whole move was stunning.

37:18It was like an homage almost to Great Day's recent past. And then Sobersly finished with rightful marksman precision. It felt great again, Rourke. It really did. Again, Jaleesa wrote to me, She said it was like when you're nursing someone old with amnesia and they suddenly have a deeply lucid moment, the interplay, building up to the goal. It was what you're capable of. Yeah, it was a genuinely wonderful goal. A really classy piece of football. The step over from McAllister, the second good thing he's done this season. And as a fan in that moment, that's what you're waiting for in a bad run of form.

37:54And Liverpool's bad run of form is now all I remember. but what you're waiting for is them to almost see in themselves again what they're capable of. And if that had been the last goal of the game, if that had been the last act, this would have been an incredibly positive weekend for Liverpool. Because not only did you get the three points, but you managed to throw away three points and then get them back. You kind of redevelop that kind of mentality thing. You maybe feel a little bit like fortune is smiling on you again, that you've got away with one. That's important. And you win it through this incredibly kind of classy goal.

38:26that only the very best teams can score. And that is a way of saying, we are capable of hurting teams. Remember that. We have something to recommend us as well. That's not how it worked out, Rog. By the way, the way you describe it, my first job in America was working in a homeless shelter doing welfare public advocacy. And their favorite movie to watch at night was Die Hard. And they loved when Hans Gruber took over the building. And I came to realize they loved it because it was like authority being dismantled and rendered impotent. And they'd always turn it off at that point. Watch it every night, just turn it off.

39:01That was the best start. We'd done it, the movie's over. You wished you could leave that game with Hans Gruber in control of the building, but now Kazareff then signaled nine minutes of extra time. And the noise in that bar, the noise in Boston, not of belief. It was of doubt. Dread. Yeah, fans lost their mind when that board went up. And you started to lose your mind when Liverpool started to run that ball into the corner flags after like two minutes of that. Now you were like, no, no, no. It's too early. You can't on nine minutes of stoppage time. You can't run the ball into the corner after two minutes.

39:37You're going to keep it there for seven minutes. You keep playing. You slow the game down. You keep possession. You show that you are a football team capable of controlling a situation. I don't like running the ball into the corner at the best of times. I think it's cowardly in whatever circumstance. but in that circumstance it looks desperate. That's the vibe, that's the mood, that was the mindset and trying to control games is one thing but trying to control Ellen Road in the darkness of night is one of the most difficult things to do in football when they're chasing a lead and it is just one of the most wondrously feral atmospheres in the entire Premier League.

40:18Leeds just, I mean it became a torture chamber. It really did a panic and second-guessing for Liverpool. Final minutes were like watching them drown almost in a mud pit. Cue the 96th minute. Corner not dealt with. Familiar agony for Liverpool this season. Tanaka swooping in. Alone. Unmarked. Far post. Crash-bounced the ball into the net. It was such a smart, intelligent, lethal finish. Third result also in goal Liverpool have conceded after the 90th minute this season, which in itself is like, what? Raw. This was unfathomable. fathomable. Or was it intensely predictable, Rog? Was it intensely predictable?

40:55It was very fathomable. Was it the thing that was obviously going to happen as soon as Liverpool scored the third, as soon as Trinati? Of all the setbacks Liverpool have had this season, most of them have been quite complicated. Most of them you look at and you think, well, it's a bit of this and it's a bit of that and maybe it's a little bit of this. This one, and this is very rare for me to say, Ibrahim McTrinati owes Liverpool two points. because if he does not make that tackle Liverpool win that game I mean it's possible I suppose that Willy Nonto could have crossed and DCL could have finished at that exact moment but it didn't feel like that it didn't feel like Nonto was he wasn't racing clear to clip the ball past Alisson he was going to try and put a cross in Liverpool were in control Leeds hadn't really created a chance in the second half there hadn't been a real moment where Leeds looked like scoring Liverpool had them at arm's length and then Canate makes a stupid decision and in that moment everything changes.

41:50That's happened a little bit to Liverpool this season but I can't think of a clearer example of a player's poor decision-making, poor choices, poor form altering the course of a game and given what follows, possibly the course of a season. Dot, dot, dot, let's get into it. I do want to acknowledge Slott outcoached in this one by Daniel Farker. From a Leeds perspective, this week began with Farker on, I mean, I don't even know what the technical term for how thin the ice was. He was in the mindset of, where do I get the cardboard box to carry out my belongings? That was the mentality, and it ended with him facing up to Chelsea and Liverpool taking four points in a stronger position than he'd been, really, since promotion.

42:37From a Liverpool perspective, eight points from the last 30 on offer. I mean, God, we need to get into Salagate, a.k.a. why did we give Moe's dough again? But we do need to say on a slot, this shift from profound transformational leader to freak one-hit wonder, who's almost overstayed his welcome for Liverpool fans. He does seem like a lost man. Just the loss of results, the loss of control of culture, the failure to conjure tactical solutions. At this point, playing favourites instead of man management. I do want to say, I remember when being a Liverpool fan used to be fun. I do remember when Eketike came and arrived and we got a number of letters.

43:20Who's going to get a song first, Rio or Eketike? Everything felt so glorious. At the end of the game at the Phoenix landing, second it ends, I guess it's the bar's tradition, they immediately take the sound off the game and they said, pump out the glorious Jerry and the Pacemakers song, You'll Never Walk Alone. And to be candid, I love that song because it's played at every Liverpool wedding I've ever been to. And it brings back so many happy memories. In that moment, when it kicks in, that beginning, it's rarely sounded more funereal. It's a dirge now. It is a dirge. Yeah, the slot thing is a real test because I'd like to think that fans shouldn't be spoiled.

43:59They shouldn't be kind of greedy. And it is, what, five months, six months since he won the league title. He's got his face on the banner. He is a man who delivered a league championship to Liverpool. The 20th championship, the one that drew Liverpool level with Manchester United. I don't want to be short-termist. You shouldn't be knee-jerked. You shouldn't be, like, reflective. But at this stage, and funny enough, you're saying it's eight points from 30, it's not just the results. You could just about, I think, given what he achieved last season, you could just about handle the results. But there's an awful lot of other stuff that's happening that is really difficult to swallow as a fan.

44:36and yeah it's the fact that players are continually in the team despite the fact that they are clearly not playing well it's the fact that the tactics keep changing to give you the impression that Slott doesn't really know what he wants to do it's not that they're playing a 4-2-3-1 and they've got all the attacking players on the pitch and they're just seeing how it goes they're going to make it work they're going to impose themselves on their opponents it's not that he's kind of shifting around trying to kind of happen upon a solution. There's no real faith there that he knows what it is. And then, as you say, the man-management situation is a bit of an issue, to be honest.

45:16Even what he said about Canate, I think that's not a great look. I mean, don't get me wrong, he is completely right that Canate has been a bit too much to blame for Liverpool's goals. But it's a poor choice of words. It's selling your player out publicly. It's not supporting him. I think that's not ideal. And then, you know, even the fact that players like Cody Dackpo are still in the team, but they're not contributing. He is chopping and changing. There's no kind of sign that he knows how to get Liverpool out of this. And I think that, as a fan, is what you want. It's the sense that the manager knows what he wants to do.

45:50I don't think the manager does know what he wants to do. Remember, Liverpool fans, when you walk through the storm, hold your head up high. And don't be afraid of the dark, because this is where we are going. Because when it felt like it could not get any worse, when the players left the field. It was just beginning raw. We now need to break down the great Liverpool Civil War of 25-26. Really started three games ago when Mo's run of 53 straight Premier League starts. Very proudly littered over, I think a year and a half. Just utterly, utterly has capsized. Mo suddenly found himself on the bench for the last three games.

46:23So to the post-match meltdown for the ages. First, Dom Sobersly stated on camera, what's in the dressing room stays in the dressing room. And then Mo Salah immediately decided, not so fast, you handsome young man. Mo, a man who, remember, has 19 months remaining on his$532 ,000 a week contract that he signed only in April, did something that he rarely does. And I don't mean score a goal. He decided he would stop and talk in the media neutral zone. He normally just charges through, head down very fast. And he went off in the course of seven minutes, talked with real detail about how he'd been, quote, thrown under the bus by Liverpool.

47:04How promises when he signed the new contract had been broken. And he'd been turned into a, quote, scapegoat for the defending champions meltdown. He volunteered. He wasn't asked, but he volunteered that his relationship with Arnaz Slott had totally broken down. And that he'd even asked his mum and dad to come to next week's game against Brighton because it might be his last at Anfield. Remember, he heads off to Afghans to play for Egypt on December 15. Someone doesn't want me in the club, he said, quite cryptically, hinting at a January move. This is a man making a very, very, very dark moment for the club, one in which he struggled, five goals, three assists, 19 games, all comps.

47:45A very proud man, rightly proud at his record as the third highest goal scorer. I'll say this, honestly, it's a deeply illustrious club. He is their third leading goal scorer. His contribution, his dignity, his respect. I mean, he's always very aware of those things. And he's normally very, very aware of his own leverage, deeply politically astute as a guy. To do this when the club is in free-fault, when many players, so many fans are struggling, that agony, to me, it does feel selfish, very selfish. I mean, you can say what he said was right or wrong. You can also separate out when he did it.

48:27They're very different things. But what was this to you? Because it was so calculated. It wasn't a rush of blood. He was smiling. He was calm in the delivery. It was planned. But to do it in a time of such heightened emotions, it was such a choice. Does it surprise you? And how do you experience it? I don't think there's any winners from it, Rog. I think that's the key thing. You're right. he's been a substitute three times and he has after a week where he's not been a first choice player he has come out and torched everyone and everything at Liverpool that is a tantrum, it's a player having a tantrum it's really hard to escape that it's not like he's been made to train with the kids for six months it's a week where he's been a substitute I think where he will have lost a lot of fans is in saying the slightly convoluted logic of I'm not saying I don't have to earn my place but I have earned my place so I should have it I think he'll lose fans on that because that sounds an awful lot like you're saying you just get to be in the team and that is not how that isn't it might sometimes be how it works but it's not how it's meant to work you're meant to earn that place every single day in training and that's whether you're Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo or Mohamed Salah you have to earn your place in training in theory you certainly shouldn't say that part publicly but then I think he'll have a lot of sympathy with fans because they will say well there's plenty of players who are also playing terribly if his relationship with the manager has fallen apart that is kind of on the manager because Mohamed Salah is Liverpool's highest paid footballer and one of the greatest players who's ever played for the club so you have to keep him happy if you're not doing that that is like a black mark against Arna Slott but to me the main two takeaways, Rog if I was to have some hot American TV style takeaways it would be I think it is a power play to an extent from Salah to see if the club will back him over Slott and maybe get slot fired.

50:18I think there is an element of that. I think it is showcasing very clearly how bad things are behind the scenes or how bad things must be behind the scenes if he is coming out publicly and saying this. And also I think it shows you a little bit about Salah that maybe this man who's been cast as a very modest, a very humble superstar, that maybe that's a little bit of clever PR. You know, last season we saw him, you said just then, you know, it's not something he does often. But Mo Salah was very good at doing TV interviews last season when he wanted a new contract. That is true. He did use the television.

50:54He used the medium to help his public stance in negotiations. That happened. It's factual. His representation won't appreciate that being said, but that did happen. He is quite an astute politician. He doesn't like being disrespected. And he very clearly feels as though he should be in the team regardless. and maybe in light of that we should kind of refigure, re-configure how we see Salah. There's a lot in this. By the way, when they talk about previous, it's not just using television, but he's done the neutral zone thing before. 2024 when he was pissed off of Jurgen Klopp, if I speak there will be fire.

51:29I mean that has massive effect and we don't know quite now about what was he really trying to do. You talk about it, was it a goodbye? Was it a torching of the place on the way out in the most extreme fashion? Is it a power play moment? Which really brings us to flipping the perspective for a second. What do Liverpool do now? Options include sack the manager, sell Mo to the Saudis in January. There could be a world where Mo Salah stays and on a slot leaves. Or does Mo suddenly, you know, he is politically astute, but has he misread the leverage? Does he suddenly look like a 33-year-old winger?

52:04His only other move is to go to Al-Hilal. And it is, for the first time in his Liverpool career, leverage less than ever. Today we found out that he's been dropped from the Liverpool flight for the Champions League game in Milan. We also know he leaves for AFCON on December 15th. Those are the only two facts we know as we play. But how do you expect Liverpool to play this out? It's difficult, as you say. Salah's played this card at a point where he's kind of at his weakest because fundamentally he can quite rightly point to other players who are playing poorly and still in the team. But he's not been playing well.

52:38That's the truth of the matter. I suppose a lot of it depends on who he meant when he said there are people who do not want me in the club or there is a person who does not want me in the club. That was taken largely as slopped as he had said our relationship is broken. So I guess there you kind of Liverpool have the choice to make. Do you accept that Salah is almost speaking for the dressing room and that in that case you do have to change the manager or do you think this is a player having a tantrum in which case you back your manager, you make it clear that that is not acceptable and Salah goes in January.

53:13Maybe both. Wouldn't it be amazing if it turns out at the end of the day the person he was referring to was Wattaro Endo? Well, the other person it could be is Richard Hughes, the sporting director. It could be that he feels that the club's recruitment in the summer has had this incredible effect where not only has it stopped Mo Salah playing well, it also means you don't get the best out of the players they've signed. They've tried to do two things and ended up doing neither or maybe even doing kind of negative two things. So it depends whether, if his battle is with Slott, then there is an easy solution.

53:46You either sell Mo or you sack Slott. If his battle is with Richard Hughes, I think ultimately there is only one winner to that and it's not Mo Salah. I mean, genuinely right now, there is so much we do not know. And the other big question is, could Mo Salah have actually played, this is remarkable, his last game for Liverpool. and we didn't know it at the time, which we have to ask, does this moment, this implosion, will it be forgotten? Or does it tarnish his reality, this moment of I in team, which is really what it is? Does that sully the beauty? I say this as a horrible person, but what we've seen Mo Salah do has been transcendent consistently.

54:31The communion also, it needs to be said that Mo has experienced with the cop, that connection, was always so profound and two-way. This is a man who led the Premier League scoring four times, 250 goals in 420 games for Liverpool. But at the same time, Liverpool fans do not love it when a player, let's just hypothetically choose a name just for purposes, let's say Trent, makes themselves bigger than the club on the way out. No, and I think that's the really difficult thing is that the fan base will be split between people who basically think it's Slott's fault and people who think that Salah has gone too far.

55:06And to be honest, there'll be quite a lot of people who think maybe both of those things are true. You can think that Salah's got a point but shouldn't have done it, and you can think that Slott should be sacked and didn't deserve Salah doing that, that Salah doing that doesn't help. It'll be really interesting to see what happens against Brighton on Saturday. Obviously, Liverpool play Inter Milan in the Champions League in Milan. There may well be a section of the away support that makes its views clear, either positive or negatively, on Salah. but at Anfield next Saturday when Brighton are in town for their inevitable 3-0 win I think it's not impossible to imagine certainly if Liverpool are losing that the cop decides that it's on Mo Salah's side Oh God I've got to say Wayne Rooney not a Liverpool fan it should be noted it was this morning he was talking about how it will quote destroy Salah's legacy if it ends like this I can't imagine it will I mean I have seen the goals I have seen the glory I have seen really the epiphany that was Mo Salah at his peak.

56:06But I've also seen this is very much who Mo Salah is. I don't believe he's really hidden any of this stuff. If you look at his arc, this is who he is. Strikers, we know, are most often selfish. They think about themselves. Mo Salah is very proud. He's made that very, we know that. They brood. They are moody. You know, the goals. The football is often seen through the lens of the self. To me, these are the two sides almost of the same Mo Salah coin. You can't have one without the other, Roar. They're not separate. They are because of these that we've seen all the time. And that coin was golden.

56:41Yeah, the drive and the determination and the self-obsession I spent, I suppose, in a positive way, that is what made him the player he was and is. But it also comes at a cost, I think. I don't think it will destroy his legacy. I think that is a knee-jerk response in the heat of the moment. Cristiano Ronaldo went back to Cristiano Ronaldo left Manchester United a year after he'd wanted to go went and had the best years of his career at Real Madrid and came back to Manchester United and to be honest was an active hindrance to them as a football club for about a year and then left under a cloud because he'd fallen out with I think two or three managers Manchester United fans still love Cristiano Ronaldo because of what he did up to 2009 if the appearance against Sunderland in the middle of the week is Mo Salah's last for Liverpool, then it would be a bitter exit and the fans would be, in the moment, there'd be a lot of hostility, there'd be a lot of upset, there'd be a lot of disappointment.

57:36But in time, it will not disguise what Mo Salah did for Liverpool and did at Liverpool. Godspeed. Mo will travel to AFCON December 15th. Good news for Egypt, he can have fresh legs and most probably the purest motivation to ensure that Egypt blow away all comers on the way to glory. I will say, dude stats post-second hair transplant. Roar, not the greatest. No, and it's a powerful advert for not getting a hair transplant, Roger. You've made the right choice. I always say, I've had three hair transplants. I am, baby. I had the Rooney. Boldness is truth. Off to Inter for Liverpool. Brighton at the weekend, bring it on to Manchester.

58:17City 3, Sunderland 0. That early morning Arsenal lost, Manchester City had the chance to close the gap at the top to two points. Pep entered that match off the rollicking 5-4 win over Fulham midweek. Now to face sixth place Ewok Sunderland. Big change here for City. Pep inserted the quite skill-soaked young Frenchman Ryan Cherkay. For Tejani, Reinders to complete an and one mixtape Tour 11 that included Cherky, Doku, Bernardo Silva, Phil Foden and their opponents, ever plucky Sunderland. Expectations stay high, but they dug deep for 31 minutes. His resistance was really futile in this one. And after half an hour of trying to pick the lot with a bobby pin, Ruben Dias just broke out the sledgehammer.

59:0230-yard master blaster that deflected quite cruelly off that young Prince Dan Ballard. And four minutes later, Dias' centre-back partner, Josco Guardiol, rose up to crash home with full food and got a City open play merchants FC becoming quite scarily adapted set pieces. Second half was just a really quite a warm watch. Doku and Granit Xhaka each crash one off the post, but in the 65th minute, finest goal, if you didn't see it at the weekend. Oh, it was the little French wonder who slammed the door shut with a piece of absolutely sublime Cirque du Soleil football. Cherque, hoodwinking, poor Trey Hummel.

59:41Then after pulling down his underpants, elected to execute, oh, a Rabonna assist. Set up Phil Foden with a quite telepathically clinical header off the underside of the bar, which should have made it count double, 3-0. Ro, you've got Cherke, Mesmerich in this game, two assists. Pep, though, it was very interesting. After he hit the Robona, he said, you never see Messi do this, meaning keep things simple. But I did watch Cherke in a game which is ever more reduced to just jewels. That's where we are right now in football. To watch such an avant-garde streetballer do his work, it was just absolutely a bullying.

1:00:16Yeah, and one of the interesting things about his move to City will be how Guardiola handles that. because Cherky, much more than Grealish or even someone like Eze, Cherky is an unapologetic individualist. That is what made him special at Lyon. It's what announced him to the world when he was 16, what has helped him become the player he is. And deep down, I don't think Guardiola likes that. Guardiola wants players who are kind of good soldiers. They do things for the system. They contribute to the collective. How he tolerates Cherky's magical streak will be really interesting to see over the course of the season.

1:00:48To this point, injury has maybe made that decision for him. But once Cherty's in form, does he indulge him or does he try and turn him into something else? Track back to do your rebondas in our own box, you bastard. That's the team flavour. By the way, Ryan, welcome to Everton next season on loan. You're going to be utterly, you and Dibbling, it's going to be utterly magnificent. But for Sunderland, really a schooling, really a reality check. this quite fun freewheeling ha ha ha Pep I am so funny now here's Manchester City crawl within two points of Arsenal looking very very apex predator but we don't really know still you know on one level we should be how terrified should the rest of the league be but it does feel week on week City are like flipping between a club in crisis or title challenging mode is this just what they're going to be the whole season until they win it well I think so I think the test will be which of those two over the course of every three games, which of those two appears more often.

1:01:53Because this week they had a scare against Leeds, had a ridiculous scare against Fulham, having been 5-1 up, somehow came within a whisker of throwing two points away. And then I think, to be honest, if I'm completely honest, I think three games in one week was too much for Sunderland. I think that was the issue they had, that for a team that has built itself on playing once a week, suddenly you have this, what the Germans call an English week, where you have a midweek domestic round. I think that the leads had gone for Sunderland a little bit. City, after that game, looked like this kind of cold-headed machine.

1:02:27But the first two games of the week, they looked like an insane mess. You know, Leeds are newly promoted, Fulham aren't especially good, and they shipped six goals. That's not sustainable. I think City are inconsistent, but the fact that they are two points behind, they've sustained their form with Erling Haaland only scoring once in five games, that's all pretty positive. Can I just say, sudden love, fans, that is a sign of progress, though, that three games in a week was too much for you. It used to be that one game in a week was too much for you, and how you have grown. May you rise again, because you, to me, have been the story of this first half of the season, and I love it.

1:03:05City play Real Madrid midweek in the Champions League, in what promises to be just a magical European night. And then Palace on Sunday. Talk about them in one second. Sunderland starting to slip up a little. Just one win in their last five, which does not come at a great time. I think they lose seven players to AFCON. Next up, though, Tynan Weir Derby against Newcastle. The stadium alike. First Premier League meeting between these two rivals in, I think, nine years. If you've not seen it before, a game high on emotion. High on passion. High on exposed belly girth. Very, very low on fans wearing shirts and weather-appropriate clothing.

1:03:46Bring it on.

1:04:17I just mentioned Crystal Palace. the exquisite pinging around the box in Fulham. I think that's a technical term for it, pinging, yeah. Iwobi fed Wilson on the edge of the area. He slapped it off to Jimenez, returned the favour with Volkan mind meld to a charging Wilson who let the ball run past him and with instinct and just really just profound artfulness. That's the only way I can describe it. It's like watching Magritte paint a bloody picture in real time the way he elected to flash a shot first time with the outside of his left boot raw. It just spiralled away from the goalkeeper. I quite stunned Dean Henderson.

1:04:53It was like Dean Henderson was just a deep appreciator of art and didn't even want to move as it flew past him into the far corner. Stunning. Which goal did you prefer? Because you could actually make the case when you watch the collective play. They were both immense. Yeah, both incredible goals. I would say Wilson's, but partly because I'm very well disposed towards a player whose specialty is scoring spectacular goals. I think that's an underrated speciality. I'm only there for the bangers. Exactly. It's quite an important role in English football history. There's always been one or two in the division who, every time you see, if you're following the game without watching it, every time you see that their name is under the team as a scorer, you know it is a good goal.

1:05:34Nico Kranchiar at Tottenham always filled that role. That was a good goal. Patrick Berger, particularly at Portsmouth later in his career, you knew he only scored good goals. and Harry Wilson is the 2025 version of that. It's so bloody. We once interviewed Sam Kerr, the great now Chelsea goal machine, and we asked her what goal gave her the most satisfaction to score. She said a tap-in. Harry Wilson is like the opposite of that. He don't do the tap-ins. Just not interested in tap-ins. No, those are for the others. He'll leave those for Sam Kerr. Harry Wilson is on just a steady diet, a banger, banger, banger.

1:06:08Palace won it late, third straight win at Craven Cottage off a Gehi header from a set-piece in Crystal Palace, five away wins, best away record in the Premier League, fourth bloody place. Incredible to experience, incredible to watch, incredible to revel in. This time last season, they were 17th place. And now, Oliver Glass, the ball, who cares about possession? Organised, robust, teamwork, ferocious, poised to strike in key moments like some kind of footballing mongoose or something like that. There is no doubt to me that a British footballer would at a team of the year trophy, Palace would get it.

1:06:41but with every single media outlet in the tabloid space building just oodles of ink, gallons on the rumour mill about Gehi, about Adam Wharton, about even Glasner. Can they finish what they started? Well, and Mateta as well. Mateta's contract is up for negotiation and it's whether he decides to stay or whether he thinks this is his opportunity to go and kind of sign a life-altering deal, one of the major traditional elite. I think there's a real risk that it does all sort of fall apart maybe at the end of the season. But I've got to say, at this stage, if you're any of those people, you'd want to make sure you're getting a really, really good offer, not just financially.

1:07:24You'd want to make sure that you're going to a team that is upwardly mobile. Because if you're Mark Gay, there's suggestions that Liverpool might move for him in January, and that obviously works for Liverpool. Does it work for Mark Gay? I'm not sure it does, to be perfectly honest. I'd be inclined to stay at Palace. Same with Glasner. If you're not going to stay at Crystal Palace, And he's obviously frustrated with the limitations of the club's transfer budget and the club's transfer strategy. I get that. But you want to make sure you know where your offer's coming from. Because if you're not going to get a club that we've seen with Thomas Frank, say, a club that is going to support you long term to fulfil your talent, maybe Crystal Palace isn't such a bad place to be.

1:08:02Yeah, you saw when he scored, just the joy, the wonder. That was a player that was very brought into this team in this moment. As opposed to like, welcome to the crime scene. of Liverpool Football Club, Mark. You too can be shouted at like Milos Kerkers when everything goes crap up. But let's stay on the happiness tip with Tottenham Hotspur 2, Brentford 0. In the Thomas Frank Clasico, Spurs frowned, turned upside down. A tricky, tricky clash going into it. This was always like hot, hot, hot must win. The beleaguered was the adjective for Thomas Frank going into this one. But here he had to face his own mob, a bit like a Danish Benedict Arnold.

1:08:41You know, Frank Spurs had just one home win all season, first day of the season. At John, though, 9761, captured the quite odd feel of this game in our Discord by saying Spurs are the first club I've ever seen where the fans hate watching the players play and the players hate playing in front of the fans. And at Ambrose Martos 6408 said, try watching the New York Jets sometime, which I just love. But luckily, Brentford are the opposite of the Spurs. great at home, blunt on the road. But it still felt like, wow, the oddest thing just happened. Went on 25 minutes. Xavi Simon's in behind. Did something good.

1:09:21Played in Richarlison to lash home. And the shots of the Spurs fans in that moment, I don't know if you saw this game, but the look of confusion on their faces in their own stadium. They were like, why is this a home game? We'd come to boo. And instead we go, what's the word again? What is it? Cheer. I mean, God, it was a really beautiful moment. Well, not least, because when did Richarlison start storing goals again? This now appears to be a thing he can do. I'm not sure. That might be the greatest turnaround of the Premier League season, that Richarlison, that meaningless lob against Arsenal appears to have kind of reminded him that he's meant to store goals.

1:10:02Because all of a sudden he's a machine. Yeah, to tack on the extra millions to the inevitable move back to Everton. We still love you, Richie. It was a goal that was born of Thomas Frank ball ideologically. And yes, Thomas Frank did celebrate the goal against his old team because managers and players, different rules. But then suddenly Xavi Simons picks up the ball. And in a moment that was really as redemptive as Paul Dano rebutting Quentin Tarantino's criticism, he ran up the gut, held up the defenders, rolled home deliriously, spurs 2-0 up, really stabbing a finger in the eye of the haters, the faders, the naysayers.

1:10:39First Premier League goal for Siemens. That must have felt amazing for him. And it must have felt even more so for Tottenham. Thomas Frank must have been like, God, can we play Brentford every week? They're terrible. Victory in the league for the first time in six games. Even Vicario booed after his mistake last week. He was given a huge cheer before kickoff. We were in the upside down. Felt like the end of days. Remember Spurs fans? The old Ralph Waldo Emerson quote. for every minute you are angry, you lose 60 seconds of happiness. Tottenham play, Slavia, Praha in Champions League. Then they're off to Nottingham Forest.

1:11:13Roar, this can continue, can't it? It can. Spurs have been better on the road than at home this season. So they'll be quite looking forward to going to Forest, to be honest, who are, as I'm sure we will discuss, not in their best moment. But the key in this Premier League season, Rodgers, you've got to put results together. You know, we've seen with Palace, they've lost one in six. they win two in a row and all of a sudden they're fourth there is no reason that can't be Tottenham but you have to you have to go back to back to back with wins and it transforms your outlook for the season Talking about transformed outlooks Bournemouth nil Chelsea nil my beautiful beautiful Bournemouth I remember before this tailspin of just 1.5 games you have fallen from second to 14th before this one I love De Reola by the way this week he was asked if if his team are pushing for Europe or fighting relegation.

1:12:05And he just said, yeah, a bit of both. That is this Premier League this moment Chelsea stumbled in. Quite a confusing week for them. They followed their best performances in aeon. They beat Barcelona, fought Arsenal with 10 men, and then fold limply, limply against Leeds' bloody United. This felt like a chance to reset or define almost their truth. A few things are true for you. Done a return of Cole Palmer, the last door fighter, back for his first start since September. But this was really just a battle of two cold, cold, cold attacks. Evan Nielsen, Junior Kruppi have gone blunt. For Chelsea, Liam De Lape hurt his shoulder back on the injury list.

1:12:41His start to life at Chelsea has just screamed, loaned to Everton by the end of the season. But quietly, João Pedro has just fallen below the waterline. Last 15 games for Chelsea, I think he's mustered just 13 shots total raw. Five of those were against Spurs. I mean, there were two shots scattered against six games, but ultimately not losing, probably winning for both teams within their narrative. I do remember when, well, it was seven days ago, so thank God I remember Chelsea. We were lauding their title challenging, but poor Enzo. I mean, I don't think he knows what has changed. Talking about Chelsea's ability to maintain their quality when he has to dip into the squad.

1:13:25He does not like to do that. These extremes of performance, is that just the Chelsea way? The only predictable is the unpredictable. I mean, I think it's partly endemic to the Chelsea model that there is a little bit of variety when you've got all those options and Maresca doesn't have kind of... There's the temptation to change things because you've got the options available so you change things and maybe it doesn't kind of work. It costs you a little bit of understanding or momentum or something. But to be honest, and this will be something I suspect that we will repeat over the course of the season, Rog.

1:13:55I think it kind of depends on who you're playing. You know, Chelsea at home to Arsenal are really up for it. Chelsea are way to Leeds, and as we said earlier, Ellen Road's a bear pit. They really hate Chelsea. That is a derby for Leeds. They didn't have the kind of deduction to cope with it. And then you go to Bournemouth, and Bournemouth are in a bad run of form. They have slumped a little bit, but they are also a really good team. So I guess if you look at, I think this is the case across the Premier League, that a lot of teams will have runs where they win one, draw one, lose one. And Chelsea maybe aren't quite out of that pack yet.

1:14:29They're not ready to rise out of the pack in maybe the way we thought they were. Chaos season and I'm here for it. In other games, West Ham won, Brighton won. Both teams really exchanged a late goal from a cute angle dance-off. Bowen first and then Rooter tied it up in the 91st minute. West Ham still in a relegation zone but just two points behind Leeds and Forest. games against Aston Villa and Man City to come now. It's tight down there in the anals of the league. It is tight. Newcastle 2, Burnley 1, a game which took place in the very week that David Hopkinson, Newcastle's new chief executive, he came from Madison Square Garden and dropped the hype, saying that his team will be one of the biggest clubs in world football in five years' time.

1:15:15Bull timing, because they're not even the best team in Tynan Weir region right now. And in this game, they almost coughed up a 2-0 lead against 10 men, Burnley. A team who'd lost five straight. First, Guy Maresh beat his old keeper Dubravka with an Olympic out. Twentieth scored straight from a corner in Premier League history. Burnley went down to 10 men. An Anthony Gordon penalty felt like it had killed off the game. But Burnley, they don't win, but bloody hell they fight. They've got a penalty of their own in the 94th. And we're a Josh Laurent hair's breadth away from an equaliser with the last touch of the ball.

1:15:48You got the mechanics all wrong with the goal utterly gaping. Newcastle had the boon of Wieser making a quite sprightly substitute debut. They have Leverkusen in the Champions League and then to that derby against Sunderland. Just one point between the two of them at the moment. I mean, this is the first Sunderland-Newcastle derby in nine long years. Can you just take a quick second? It is a special game. Can you articulate just the feel, the smell of the game, as Martin Tyler calls it? Because it's different. Yeah, I remember 10 years ago, on the occasion of the time we had Derby, a Newcastle fan punched a police horse.

1:16:26You're talking about Barry Rogerson. So that kind of sums it up, I think. He was jailed for 12 months. He put it in 2013 after the game. I think Sunderland had won it. Was it 3-0? He was so inebriated and so angry and I think so deeply off his head. This is a famous moment. The police horse was called Bud. and there's an incredible photo of Barry Rogerson punching Bud in the face. I do want to add for all of you animal lovers and we're all animal lovers on this show, Roar, Bud was unharmed. Yeah, I mean, Bud, it was a traumatic experience for Bud, but Bud was fine. I don't know whether Bud is still alive.

1:17:06But I've got to, I can update, you know, I do know the Bud story. I was kind of obsessed at this moment, Roar. It's one of my, like, it does define the everything. Bud, later retired, totally healthy. There's a report on him where it says Bud lived a good life and then passed away in 2020. To Bud's memory, Rook. To Bud, absolutely. Yeah, the reason that incident became so famous is because it sums up the passion of the Tyne Weir Derby, how angry it makes whichever side that loses. It's one of the great fixtures of English football. It's one of those games that kind of illuminates the Premier League season when it's in the Premier League or in the Championship.

1:17:42that there is genuine animosity between the clubs. It's not been diluted like a lot of modern derbies. It's still very pure, as it always was. It will be a real occasion. It always felt so magnificent because the two teams were always, you know, in the modern period, have been mostly mid when they played each other. And it was just a reminder that your misery for losing actually outweighs any kind of happiness I want to have through my own club, which is just such a finely and fantastically petty and wonderfully spite-filled way to approach life. Young listeners, be like Newcastle and St. Levant.

1:18:17That's what I'm saying. Manchester United travels to Wall Street PM this afternoon. Walls team who's two points or less than any other side across Europe's top five leagues. Also have the worst goal difference, minus 22. I'll just say Ruben Amorim has a chance to do something very, very funny if he wants. But talking about very funny, Everton 3. Whoa, not in Forest nil. Roy, is this the real life? is this just fantasy? I still don't know if this happened. It's incredible. An incredible performance from Everton. A real kind of statement of intent, Rog. They're Champions League challengers. Yeah, now you're trying to set me up to knock me down.

1:18:54More just beating Sean Dyche. I've got to say that he returned like bad dad. It was like watching Jack Torrance at the Overlook Hotel just kind of come back. Oh, not him again. Everton Football Club, man. I don't know who we are anymore. I've got to say, I tune in with joy. I don't hate watch. It's like so weird. First, Jack Grealish drew a yellow card. I think from Savona on like 23 seconds for real. So an 82 seconds in, Kieran Dewsbury Hall. That man cut back. Just an incredible turn on the flanks. Lashed in a cross. Milankovic headed home. We do not fear the life truth that you should never score too early anymore.

1:19:31Also this, Everton have not lost the game in which they opened the scoring this season. These are crazy realities. Who are we? We got a second. And it was humanly beautiful to watch. Young Tiano Barry finally scoring his first Premier League goal. This is a kid who's tried, failed, struggled horribly at the beginning. Gave his all, though. Won over the fans with his hustle. Had a goal he thought last week. It was Vardov, and he always cried when it was Vardov. Q Saturday, 15th game of the season. Finally got what he toiled for. First Premier League goal in his career. By the way, Ilyan Dye, the way he served it up on the plate.

1:20:05That is him. So generous. and then he celebrated with his teammates, with his fans, with the joy really of a giant kid on the schoolyard. That kind of naive joy. Reminded me of the Snoopy line, Charles Schultz, the creator, once said, happiness is a warm puppy. That was a warm puppy. It may be the first of a thousand Everton goals from that warm puppy. Raw, it is probably peak Everton, I realise in this moment, to celebrate a random goal and to dance as if you just scored the late winner in the Champions League final. You've got to maximise the moments of fleeting joy in life, right? But also, this is what football's about, Rog.

1:20:40It's about bonding to players. And it's one of those things that I think is always lost in the hullabaloo of the summer transfer market in particular. Is you build relationships with players. You become invested in their journeys. And yeah, Tieno Barry has clearly won over the Everton fans just with his kind of demeanour, his energy, his enthusiasm, his determination to succeed. Some goals are more special than others. And his first one for the club after that long wait is a genuinely, it's a moment that deserves to be commemorated. As does the play of Kieran Dewsbury Hall. We've got his now contractually obliged goal late.

1:21:15Three goals, one assist in his last five games. He said something beautiful after the game. He said he's feeling the best he's ever felt. We love him. He clearly loves us. The Hill Dickinson rocking. And Everton temporarily went fifth. We're now sixth. but Roar I do need to ask you the question I said at the top are Everton the only team in football who go fifth and no one is asking is their Champions League challenge for real everyone's just like oh nah bless that's nice well as we said on the stage I think in Boston they're the only club where they win and the immediate reaction the win to go fifth and the immediate reaction from the entire footballing world is just well that won't last there's a real sense of kind of yeah this is I mean Sunderland maybe maybe Sunderland could get into the Champions League but Everton, no, not a chance.

1:22:02Everyone's just like patting me on the head like, oh, that's cute. That's nice. That must be nice for you little man. Just wait until the true powerhouses of English football, Crystal Palace and Brighton, when they get their act together, they'll overtake them. I fear. I think the Premier League, as I say, and I realise I'm repeating myself, but it's so chaotic, it's so evenly balanced that you forget that what, when did Everton lose to Newcastle? Every time we've ever played them. So, you know, a 4-1 defeat at the Hill Dickinson not that long ago. The Premier League is chaos, Rog. It is, and we beat Crystal Palace.

1:22:35I still can't work out how did we defeat the mighty Crystal Palace. Chelsea, then Arsenal up next for the Blues. Let's choose life while we can, yeah. By the way, big love to Everton women who broke Chelsea's 585-day women's Super League unbeaten streak. Everything is coming up blue. It's time for my favourite part of the show where we read a letter from a GFOP. But first, don't miss this exclusive limited-time ticket offer. Bank of America has teamed up with Visa to offer new Bank of America cash rewards cardholders a chance to purchase up to two FIFA World Cup 2026 tickets. Get the details at bankofamerica.com slash card FWC26.

1:23:17And a reminder today in time for the holidays, get your official Soccer's Coming Home collection of merch on shop.men in blazers.com. Let's finish off the best way with a letter from our bulging mailbag. Write us at meninblazers at gmail.com. From GFOP, Lindsay Whitlow. Roar, do the honours. Hello, Roger and Rory. I seek your wisdom as a listener to your podcast who's never written before. By way of introduction, for my job, I teach biology. But more importantly, maybe don't tell your employers that, I am a recreational youth soccer coach. Every new season and team brings the challenges and joys that generally come with getting to know the players, that generally come with getting to know the players, helping them do their best, celebrating the wins and handling the losses.

1:23:59And each season typically comes with a little of each. This year, though, our team is losing regularly and quite badly. Potential reasons vary, could be the coaching, but could include that the team is playing its first season, 11 against 11, on full-size fields of the absurd variety of sizes among 12-year-olds. This sounds like on a slot. The problem is that... The absurd variety of shieses amongst 28-year-olds. You have to remember my players are all very different shieses. My question for you is, how can players lose in a healthy way? Losing every once in a while is part of the game, of course, but I must admit I'm currently struggling a bit and would appreciate your thoughts.

1:24:38I wondered if all of your experiences among professional players might provide some thoughts on how they keep it up, turn the page, or whatever they do after a tough loss. There are clearly some very talented players who do not play for the top clubs, and as we see each week in the Premier League, they don't always win. What could our young players learn from these pros for how to best handle losing? I truly look forward to your new episodes each week as a small way to escape all that's swirling around these days and appreciate all your insights, humour and the magical way you both seem to combine the two when discussing the beautiful game.

1:25:08Thanks for your thoughts. Courage indeed. Oh, Roar, that is a beautiful letter, Coach Lindsay. I feel like we need to step up in this moment, Roar, because I'm worried one of Lindsay's players is going to stop on the way out in the neutral zone and just throw Lindsay under the bus. So, like, we better deliver. We have to deliver. I think the best way to handle defeat is by blaming all of your teammates and saying that it's not anything to do with you. That is the way that professional players seem to handle defeat. Or pick one and just scapegoat them. Just pick one of the kids, any of them, and just be like...

1:25:41It's their fault. It's their fault. Your team needs to find its canate. Too many moments at the crime scene for you Stephen the young 11 year old Reading Lindsay's letter it did occur to me that actually the fact that professional players absorb defeat every week or every couple of weeks is actually quite a potent example for kids I mean we have the team that I help coach has a sort of similar issue at the moment in that we I think we are not quite as tactically well prepared as the other 8 year olds and so they've started to lose more than they win and I'm worried a little bit about how we kind of a turn it around and b teach the kids that that you you seek things you seek positives even among the negatives and I think that you know professionals do do provide quite a powerful example that they the way they deal with it varies from person to person some use it as fuel some will say like I want to go out and prove that that whatever happened last week won't happen again and I think that has has some value but a lot of them accept it as something that can happen one thing that players are incredibly good at I think is handling disappointment if you think about how gutted you must be to lose a Champions League final to lose a World Cup final the level of sadness and disappointment but they are then able to dust themselves off it can take some time but to go again and that is quite a powerful example if you speak to athletes who play sport at really high levels the one thing that separates the true greats I think is an ability basically just not to notice if they lose yeah tenacity is like the quality ultimately that I think I mean I talked about it on stage on Saturday Arsene Wenger when I asked him what separates you know greatness from goodness he said tenacity every player is really really good but it's the tenacity to absorb defeat I mean I'll say Lindsay to be candidate is hard watching kids play that switch to the big field is an incredible moment where they can lose themselves and the fact that 12 as all the bodies are changing or beginning to change some players are men at 12 some players are still just kids and it makes football the joke at that moment it really really really does I'd say two things to you first is I once interviewed one of the head coaches of La Masia Barcelona's famous youth academy and he was laughing at how we train kids in America.

1:28:08He said, at your level, and your level, Lindsay, winning does not matter at all. What matters is individual development of the players. You know, he said in America, he's seen youth soccer, and every team is obsessed with winning. But it's utterly irrelevant at the age you're coaching. What matters is the development of the skill and the fun the kids are having. Those two things are all a bloody matter. To win age 12, this is my memory of what he said to me. He said, you just throw big kids on. That's what we do in America, by the way. Throw on the big kids, let them mow down everyone. And his point was, Messi, Iniesta, and Xavi would never have developed if they grew up in America.

1:28:47They'd just be absolutely just knocked over, flattened by big kids who had chest hair and beards already. So there is that. But more than anything, if you want to listen to anything to play your kids, Noah Kahn, my friend, said it on Saturday night, live on stage in Boston. He loves football. He loved playing football a lot as a kid. And he failed a lot. Didn't make the team towards the end on the bench with his number nine. That's a watch like Mo Salah. And he said quite beautifully, I want to put the quote up on our Instagram. He said, the failures of the football field were the greatest drivers of his success in real life.

1:29:24So think about that. They allowed him to develop that ability to persevere and grind and fight, which we all have to do. Losing is amazing because in life we do not win all the time. we do also lose and being successful I mean to Kipling on you is to meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same so don't be afraid email me your details about the team and I will send you a pump up speech for the next game Lindsay so let's get that done now Do you know what Rog you're absolutely right as I say our team has lost a few games recently or more than we normally would and what's amazing is the coaches and the parents are really kind of oh that's annoying isn't it you know we could have done this better we could have done that better the kids don't care if the kids have scored if they've scored one goal if the team has scored one goal they're happy all they want to do is enjoy it and I think remembering and I certainly fail at this quite a lot remembering that they are there to enjoy themselves that as long as they're having fun that's all that matters and they're developing that's all you need to do I will say I coach once and once only when my kid was six Sam said he was really into football he went to a new school where there was no sports and all the dads were laughing that one of the dads would be an idiot enough to try and create a football team.

1:30:35I don't know why, because it's so not me. By the end of the year, I had created a football team, had Sampson and his best mate, who was also very good at football. They played an under-six league at Chelsea Piers in Manhattan. I didn't know when I entered. This place was like the Thunderdome. I mean, they were really good footballers. They got mowed down week after week. They got absolutely obliterated. One of them now plays. One of those kids who destroyed my son's team, Justin Hack, now plays professionally for NYCFC. I had him live on stage in New York a couple of weeks ago and loved it. But like they lost every game.

1:31:07They barely scored. The parents were losing their minds. They had like parent meetings with me, like devastated. And then the final game of the season, we won 1-0. Still a miracle. My worst kid actually scored the goal or had my son actually blast it off his face and it went in. And that's what they remember. The end of the season party was delirious. All that losing, all that pain, the parents losing their minds and the kids had the single greatest time and I've never coached again. That's it today. I am back on Wednesday with the incredible Tommy Fleetwood. Yes, is my guest. I've wanted to come on forever.

1:31:45We go deep on the Ryder Cup. His love of football and Everton in particular. It's a beautiful, beautiful conversation. Still buzzing. Then post-game, after the Champions League clash between City and Real Madrid, I will go live on YouTube with the King of Horn, mighty James Horn Castle at 5pm Eastern Time. Come and have a beer with Amaz and me. Roar, until then, get home safe, you mighty king. Go and take your mid-Atlantic, quasi-American accent home with you to your family, man. They will not let me talk with a transatlantic accent for more than about 15 minutes. I have to go home and deliver presents, Rog.

1:32:22I've been away for a week. They expect presents at all times, despite the fact that it's nearly Christmas. but I will see you very soon I think on the other side of the Atlantic God that is cryptic and wonderful and I'm trying to oh God bless next week Raw Double Boots and Rog home and away yeah we're playing it's the away leg big love listeners let's not take a second of watching football together for granted and courage