Can Tottenham win without Son Heung-min? Why Isak's move to Liverpool depends on....Brentford?: Men in Blazers 08/04/25

23:36I can't handle that alter scenario. So let us deal now with something else that's hard to unpick for a lot of Spurs fans out now. We should dive into the rational rule and how we understand this decision, which is, you know, they painted it in the way Manchester City and Kevin De Bruyne could not conjure together. They painted it as the player's decision. It probably was not the player's decision. So let's break it down. 33 years of age. Yes, diminished minutes last season. It was the first in which he failed to reach double figures for league goals since his first season in the Premier League.

24:09But it's hard to judge anybody in a 17th place league finish. Stats, still amazing. 0.38 assists per 90 minutes in the league last campaign. His best return yet is chance creation. 0.68 big chances created per 90 minutes, which is, apparently I was blown away by this, the fifth highest in the league last season for players who played over 1 ,000 minutes. This is the key one for me. Spurs won 42 % of the 24 league games he started last season compared to the 7 % without him. They didn't win 13 of the 14 games without the club captain. James Madison said it best to me. Sonny is Tottenham. Tottenham is Sonny.

24:53it's weird to think about Tottenham without Son Hung-Ming. First of all, Roar. I mean, this is the end of an era when you look at the modern heroes of Tottenham in a weekend in which Dele is looking like he's going to retire from the game or the game's retired from him. Harry Kane gone, now Sonny. End of an era. Goodbye to Tottenham's ex-G King. How much will Spurs miss him on the field?

25:17Roger Bennett:I mean, Eric Dier is still going strong at Monaco. So that's something, Rog. You know, that's nice to know. I think on the field, they were already missing him, if that makes sense. I take your point on the stats, on the fact that he was still delivering, but he was delivering less than he had. Yeah, but let's ignore the stats for a minute, Ro. You can prove anything with facts, Rog. He was still delivering, but there's two things that a club has to do. They have to look at the reality of what the player has just done, in the season just gone. And I think Spurs would look at Son and think, Like, OK, we can see that we have maybe crested the wave at this point, that we're on the downslope.

25:57Roger Bennett:And the second thing the club has to do is think, right, where do we go from here? What comes next? And I think looking at injuries, looking at kind of the type of player he was at his peak, and to be honest, looking at the amount of money he earned, I think Spurs probably thought, OK, maybe this is the point at which this summer kind of makes sense to say goodbye. And I think the second thing a club has to do is look at where that decline is going and the rate of it, how fast it's likely to snowball, because once players start dropping, they tend not to recover. There's an economic factor to that as well, of course.

26:29Roger Bennett:If they're high earners, you have to think about it more keenly, more quickly. And I think Spurs have thought maybe this summer makes sense to part ways. New manager, Mohamed Kouda's already come in, there will be more signings. They tried to sign Morgan Gibbs-White. Maybe that's the point at which you say, OK, the 33-year-old, who has been an amazing servant, who is kind of the embodiment of the club now, which by the way is an amazing thing for an Asian player to be at an English club that's an incredibly important thing that Son has kind of achieved without ever really talking about it they thought well this is this is the logical point and it's it's not easy but it's never going to be easy so you have to kind of do it when it makes sense yeah I mean I tell you also the 25 27 million dollars that they are rumored to be getting in return for him also you know when you talk about the economic incentive.

27:15That's a large amount of money for a 33-year-old player leaving. And for me, it is a matter of Thomas Frank coming in and wanting to build a whole new culture. He talked about that in our interview and not having the prospect of a, is Sonny playing? Should he be starting? Why is Sonny on the bench? Be just a consistent flapping piece of skin almost throughout the season. He needs to control the decision-making. He needs to control the team selection. He needs to control the emotional well-being of the inside the Tottenham bubble and not be dependent upon that former era whose future, as you say, was inevitably going to diminish.

27:54Your other point is really critical. I do want to mention it for one second before we look towards the Sonny future. What a particularly emotional moment this is for the millions of passionate South Korean fans. And Sonny was such a rock star in South Korea. And we posted on our Instagram, Spurs games were broadcast there with just his giant head floating above the scoreboard rather than the Tottenham Crest to make sure everyone knew their prince was on the field. It's very South Korean. They do that with all their major league baseball stars too and all the Korean Premier League talent that has followed Sonny.

28:34But he was the first Asian to become a genuine Premier League superstar in the social media era. I did laugh at all the tweets this weekend, Ro, showing images of thousands of happy South Korean people with the caption, the Korean nation at the news that they don't have to pretend to support Tottenham Hotspur anymore. But he was seismic, not just for Spurs, but for the Premier League in general over there.

29:00Roger Bennett:Yeah, he was the face of the Premier League in South Korea and to an extent in Asia more broadly. I think obviously I'm sure Japanese Premier League fans weren't quite as attached to Son Hyun Min as Korean ones were or Chinese fans or Malaysian or wherever. But I think to have one of the leading lights in the league be from Asia was really important. Commercially, which sounds like a really craven and venal way of looking at it. but also like socially because I think for a long time there were stereotypes over Asian players, Korean and Japanese players in particular, that they were hard-working, that they were diligent, that they were good teammates, all these kind of Orientalist tropes that we tend to lean into and Son, like you say, was a bona fide superstar.

29:44Roger Bennett:I think you can make the case he's the first, maybe the first truly European-level global superstar that South Korea or Japan have produced. There have been other players, obviously, KCG Honda, Hidetoshi Nakata, Park Ji-sun. There's been plenty and plenty of players. There were a couple in Germany in the 1980s too who were major names in the Bundesliga then. But I don't think any of them have ever been as high profile and as successful as Son. Nakata was a massive star, but he never really delivered. Not truly, not in the way that Son has. And I think Son has challenged a lot of stereotypes. He's maybe changed a lot of stereotypes.

30:20Roger Bennett:And actually, you know, Newcastle, I think, have signed a Korean winner this summer. They won't be thinking, I wonder if he's going to be a diligent, hardworking man marker like Park Ji-sun was turned into by Sir Alex Ferguson. They will be thinking, I hope he's the new Son Hyun-min. To the future, Sonny said to be in advanced, highly advanced negotiations with MLS. Expect him soon to be doing that video where he pulls on the LAFC cap in one of their signature moves. America, all I can say is brace yourself for Sony mania. There are 326 ,000 Koreans in LA. I believe, cutting to a quick Google, it's the largest concentration outside of Korea population-wise, which is remarkable.

31:07When I think about it, I think about this footballingly, he has a lot more to give. But I also think culturally, that stadium, which is already delirious, LAFC's games. It is going to be packed. It is going to be proud and delirious. It's going to be a destination for Koreans from around the world to come and don't like to be hyperbolic, but worship. And I can't wait to witness it. This is going to be like Park Chan-ho to the Dodgers.

31:34Roger Bennett:Yeah, and even in London, where there isn't quite the size of Korean population that there is in LA, obviously, but there is one, you would see Korean fans at Spurs games, and some of those will have lived in London, and some of those will have come to London to see Son play. There were at least two, I think, Korean journalists who were permanently stationed in London just to kind of ask Spurs managers whether Son was playing. That was their job. To be honest, quite a nice job. That's all you've got to do once a week, turn up at Spurs' training ground and say, Son playing? And the manager says yes or no.

32:07Roger Bennett:And there's your story. That is a great way to earn a living, Rog. He is a sensation. He will be a sensation. And it's really important that I guess that and I don't want to kind of get into territory that I'm not qualified to talk about. But I guess that if you think about the growth of soccer in the US, that there's always been this focus on kind of on Hispanic communities, on Latino communities, that they are second, third, fourth, fifth generation immigrants from football cultures and that they are the kind of bedrock of where football in the US will be. But the same is true of Korea and Japan.

32:41Roger Bennett:they're massive football cultures and if you've got 326 ,001 Koreans in LA there's a very good chance that a lot of them will think well the place to be is LAFC games because we have a national hero there someone who is to our to our parents to our grandparents to our cousins back you know back in Korea to our friends back in Korea that is the guy they love let's go and watch him play and that that brings a whole new community into that club and by extension into to MLS and into soccer. And that's a good thing. The tapestry of football. Wouldn't it be amazing if football historians retrospectively point to the moment that Jordan Pickford signed for Colorado Rapids in 2034, mobilising that massive Sunderland diaspora across America as the moment when football really took off in this nation.

33:32In other more present and slightly nightmary news, James Madison suffered a, quote, according to Thomas Frank, bad injury in that friendly yesterday, recurrence of the knee injury, according to reports. We wish him well. And Godspeed to Sonny and his family as they contemplate that next move. And please, God, arrive on our shores. I know, for one, I cannot wait. From Spurs, a team that wins things now, to Liverpool, a team that seems to be trying to win bloody everything. First of all, I'll say it was very moving to hear Liverpool confirm that Diogo Jota's number 20 jersey will be retired. and that the entire squad will sport a Forever 20 emblem printed on their jerseys and warm-up jackets or remain in place for the entire season.

34:19There's going to be quite elaborate pageantry, ritual, commemoration, a special fan mosaic and a moment of silence planned for the first game of the Premier League season against Bournemouth. We've talked about grief and mourning a lot on this show. I have Arna Slaas, as I say, coming on this week and his thoughts on this moment will probably be the most important. But I think about all of this and I think about the players as grieving humans themselves. Honestly, I don't know how they play a focused game of football after that. The crowd, the emotion, the song, just the overwhelming sense of loss.

34:56I can't even imagine.

34:58Roger Bennett:I think the thing that's going to be difficult this season for everybody, for Liverpool's players, for Liverpool's fans, and for kind of the football community at large is is like reminding ourselves remembering that grief isn't linear that grief isn't there's not like a there's not like a way that you go through it and a series of steps that you take and then it's solved grief is a burden you carry with you for your entire life and you get stronger but it never gets any lighter that was that's a one something someone said to me once that has really stayed with me about grief that that you yeah you are better better able to to carry it but you it's still there and the way it manifests like the way it affects you isn't isn't logical and it's not rational and it's not kind of it doesn't separate necessarily with time so I can understand that the players some of the players will feel most normal on on the pitch that is when they will feel that they are able to be themselves that they not that they can forget Jota because he was their friend he was their teammate and they will they will live with reminders of him both ones that are present like you know when they hear his song being sung when they when they look down on their jerseys and see that emblem when they stand in a moment of silence when in time you know in months to come they see his statue at or other memorial at anfield you know they they will remember him there will be times when they are presented with something with a thing that makes them remember him but there will also be like the daily absences the fact that his seat in the changing room will be empty will be incredibly difficult for them to deal with.

36:30Roger Bennett:And it may be that initially, in the first few weeks and months of the season, maybe it will look like they've coped with it okay. That they've kind of not moved on, but they'll have Hudo Eketike and Milos Kerkhez and Jeremy Frimpon and Liverpool, all these new signings, and isn't it an exciting time to be a Liverpool fan? And the players, and I'm sure we will see, they'll win a game and they'll be like, they're doing it for Jota. But it might be in three months, it might be in six months, it might be in nine months that it hits some of them and that they suddenly find at that point it is not possible to cope with it anymore and it's really important that they recognise that and that they are allowed to grieve in their own way and to mourn in their own time it's hugely important the club gives them the support they need at the moments they need it that's vital but it's also kind of incumbent on all of us to remember that what Liverpool have been through this summer as a club but particularly as a group of players is a genuine trauma and it's not a trauma that that follows the arc of football stories it's not a kind of well they've they they've lost a friend and they've you know had to you know learn how to deal with it and then they've won a game so it's over like the storyline doesn't stop there this will be something that those players live with for the rest of their careers and the rest of their lives because he was their friend more than anything and they are grieving him and they will always be grieving him and it's up to us i think and this is really important to me to remember that you have to kind of treat them as people who are going through grief, because that's what they are first and foremost.

38:00Roger Bennett:They are not footballers. And it's not just true of Liverpool, it'll be true of Ruben Neves and Pedro Neto and all of his Portuguese teammates. The ripple of Jota's death will kind of linder through the league. But at Liverpool in particular, they are grieving and they will be grieving for months and years to come. And it's important that we remember that. Yeah, it really puts into perspective, we use the word in football, a tragedy, a devastating loss I mean even that word it just puts all of that into complete and utter perspective and football which so many of us go to for solace, for respite, to remove ourselves from real life, we are going to deal with a season, Liverpool fans the Liverpool global fan base and the players and the manager in particular and those at Anfield are going to be dealing with the very rare occurrence where real life true humanity just smashes its way into football.

38:58That place which is meant to be the respite, it's felt all the more powerfully because of that. In other lesser footballing news, Luis Diaz, since we last podcasted together, has departed for Bayern Munich. What a charismatic, no doubt, a final went to Liverpool probably in decades. He'll still remember there's like a cult hero, a charismatic cult hero. So that's the emotional side of me talking. The commercial side, though, I have got to pay respect to Liverpool Football Club selling a 28-year-old attacker who made it clear that he wanted to leave, which is meant to diminish their leverage. A gentleman who scored 29 goals in 103 Premier League games and getting$80 million for him compared to, say, Marcus Rashford, who had a year longer on his contract.

39:46He's a year younger, more prolific goal-wise, and United have to loan him out to Barcelona because of his high wages. To me, I look at the Luis Diaz leaving almost as a token of how savvy Liverpool have been business-wise right there.

40:01Roger Bennett:Yeah, it's one of the things that Liverpool have always been good at under Michael Edwards and Richard Hughes now. They're really good at selling players. I'd say they're much better at selling players, certainly than any of the other elite teams. And they're up there with the real masters of the art, like Brighton and Brentford. they know how to get a price for their players they know how to kind of work the market and it's a crucial part of their strategy because they have spent hugely this summer already they've signed Florian Verts they've signed Milos Kerkers they've signed Jeremy Frimpon they've signed Hugo Eketike and I'm sure they will still sign more people one of them may be Alexander Izek but they will offset at least some of that spend by getting a really good price for the players that they no longer need or that they feel they have to move on and Diaz as you say is 29 this season, to get$80 million for him is a great piece of business.

40:51It's incredible. John Henry just constantly, no matter who his director of football is, making sure they listen to The Gambler by Kenny Loggins. You've got to know when to hold them. You've got to know when to fold them. God, Liverpool fold them in the greatest, most lucrative fashion. In other Liverpool news, probably the big news of the week, Hugo Eketike has picked the number 22 to go with his palindromic name so that his jersey reads backwards the same as it does from Woods GFOP at Salty Doodon insted us and said Eketike's worn 11, 33 and 44 throughout his career. He's now 22. Bro out there to conquer all the palindromes.

41:33Roar, as a wordsmith, care to comment?

41:35Roger Bennett:I had not realised that, but that does make it sound a lot like he's doing it on purpose, which is quite funny. It's amazing. I mean, that's my thing. The palindrome. I just love, I love, I love goals and palindromes. Those are the two things that drive Hugo Eketike. I've got huge respect, by the way, for that. I've got even bigger respect for the statisticians who are instantly able to pull out things like Hugo Eketike is set to be the fifth player with a palindrome surname to play for Liverpool Football Club. I don't know if you can name any of these, Ru. I found this very, my brain doesn't work like this.

42:12Let's be candid. I'll give you Shea Iojo.

42:15Roger Bennett:Oh, Joe. Okay, yeah, fine. I mean, that's, you know, it's just three letters. Yeah, I give you Ozan Kabak. Kabak, okay. Yeah, and then the other two, Andrew Hanna and David Hanna. I mean, they're kind of phoning it in, aren't they? Oh, come on. But I did read this and my instant reaction, which tells you about my mental state after the very long summer for the US in the Gold Cup. I was like, my God, the American national team needs to get more palindrome named players for us before we finally become a world-class team. Quick stop at Newcastle for some Liverpool-related news. Alexander Ezek remains Liverpool's dream target.

42:52We talked last show about why Newcastle are struggling to sign and retain players. Fabrizio Romano came on our show for a really, quite lighteningly electric appearance last week. It was really magnificent to talk to him. He made a great point on why Newcastle can't retain players. He said one of Newcastle's problems is that they've got a reputation within football agency culture for, quote, not letting players go. So good young talent just does not want to go there and risk being stuck. I guess the implication is they need to be smarter about how they treat players if they want to continue their upward trajectory.

43:27Roger Bennett:Yeah, it's a really important aspect of trying to build your club into something is that you have to understand that as you grow, until you're at the top of the food chain, whoever's above you will want to take your players. that's how it worked and there was a there was a really interesting line i think in a piece that was on the athletic about about newcastle's kind of understanding of the exact situation and there's lots of claim and counterclaim and no one's entirely sure who's like to blame and who's not to blame and what who knew what and when and all that stuff but there was a really interesting line that said that newcastle have always accepted that as part of their growth players would have to be sold they just never wanted it to be exact and you think well hang on so you realize you'd have to sell players but didn't think you'd have to sell the best one like that's how it works like why would anyone look at your team and be like we want your fourth best player the teams above you will want your best player and then they'll want your next best player that's how it works and i wrote a piece about this for the observer and got the immediate response and it's totally predictable like you're a liverpool fan you will obviously you're writing this just you want it to happen but i think there is a there is a really strong argument that newcastle should be looking at leeching as much money off Liverpool as is humanly possible for Alexander Izak and then saying, thank you very much, because this is not only our chance to be totally PSR compliant for X number of years, but we can now build a team.

44:48Roger Bennett:We can get the depth in our squad that means we can cope in the Champions League and the Premier League. We can replace Izak with three or four players. It is the Liverpool fan in you talking, but it's a Liverpool fan who saw this modern period of success, grounded, traced to the Coutinho sound. Yeah, and they've only just finished spending that money. God, God bless. It's not all bleak. By the way, I love your idea. You can take any player, just not our best one, like Everton say. You can take any player, just not Beto. But not all bleak for Newcastle fans. In comes young up-and-comer Aaron Ramsdale, a gent who's honestly like signing an albatross while smashing mirrors on Friday the 13th.

45:26God bless. Tuna down. But Liverpool are continuing, as you described there. avid coveting, let's say for now, of goal machine, back-pointing celebrator Alexander Rezac. There's a large belief they need to hand over a larger boat of money than they'd imagine, but to the rescue. It means offloading Darwin Nunes raw. In swoop, we heard this weekend, Al-Hilal, who is said to be willing to send over a ton of cash for the Uruguayan striker. Quickly, Roar, is this where we are in football? that the Saudi nation-state public investment fund, the PIF essentially, buying a player for Al-Hilal so that a team trying to buy a massive start from another PIF-owned asset, Newcastle, can get very liquid.

46:13Is this just really modern football?

46:16Roger Bennett:The whole situation is really weird and there's lots of weirdness about it, but I think it's best summed up by this one, Raj, is that Saudi Arabia is in the middle of this process of building the Saudi pro league into something sort of you know they want to be one of the top five or six leads in the world fine not a problem they spent all this money on big players they're trying to build these teams up Al Halal did really well at the club world cup we just saw that and yet they seem to have decided that the one player they really simply must have is Darwin Nunez I that bit really like baffles me to be honest I quite like Nunez as a player I think he's he's fine he's not he's not been a disaster at Liverpool he's been fine he's just maybe not been worth the money and obviously now that they think they can get a much better striker in Alejandro Izak.

46:59Roger Bennett:They want to sell him. It is weird that Al-Hilal have decided so avidly they have to have Darwin Nunez. It's weird that the whole thing is caught effectively in a house-buying chain, because Liverpool can't buy Izak until they've sold Nunez, but also until Newcastle have signed either Sesko or Johan Wisser, or maybe both. And Brentford won't sell Wisser until they've found a replacement. So the British record transfer that Liverpool want to do with Alejandro Izak now effectively rests on Brentford signing a striker from like Portugal or Denmark or somewhere. That's weird. And it's beyond weird as you say.

47:35Hands off Beto, you coward.

47:36Roger Bennett:But it's also really weird that ultimately the money that goes back to Newcastle, at least part of it, like a decent chunk of it, will come from PIF, from Newcastle's owners. Now, whether that is a sign that the public investment fund that bothered about Newcastle anymore, I don't know. whether it's a sign that they're trying to get the liquid money into Newcastle. Again, not sure. But it very much feels like it's not ideal that the money is basically being rooted through Liverpool back to Newcastle, either for the good or the bad of Newcastle. I'm not entirely sure which. God bless. The only thing I can think about Saudi Arabia and their Darwin Nunez fascination is that they've realised, and they really have, football ultimately is won by memes.

48:21And he is one of the ultimate incredible mean footballers. Talking about new strikers, it is incredible to revel in Arsenal football club happiness. We are deep into our Jocares era. The arrival of Victor Jocares finally scratches almost the death itch for a number nine, which has rumbled on for several second place seasons now. Remember, Gent thrashed and banged a staggering 97 goals in 102 games for sporting in Portugal. Yes, there's a slight nagging memory at the 27-year-old struggling in the English top flight with Brighton when he was on their books. But I've got to say, I do love how quickly we moved on from the he is great, he's going to solve all of our problems to what the hell after he made his debut in a North London friendly, I have to be candid, friendly.

49:08They mean nothing. He was introduced in the 77th minute, I think, in Hong Kong. People are already freaking the F out that he only had two touches after that. It honestly all reminds me, Roar, this moment of how we were so quick to write off Erling Haaland after the Community Shield where he made his debut against Darwin Nunez and just failed to take any of the chances. We all immediately decided it was a total bust. I think he then proceeded to blast, was it 10 goals in six games? But really, it's a symbol of the intense pressure that he is now under to produce almost instantly.

49:44Roger Bennett:Well, yeah, and the big thing with Jokeres has been that Arteta has been told for what four years he desperately needs a number nine and he's always trying to resisted it because he knew that the risk of signing a proper like an out and out nine is that they don't touch the ball a lot that they're not involved in build-up play and he wants his players to be involved in build-up play i think they have deliberately gone for a striker they can sometimes leave out who does not have to play every single game as opposed to trying to sign alexander isak around whom you have to build your team. He should, in time, give Arsenal that option of having a really ruthless finisher, which maybe they need, you know, against a low block team at home when they're, you know, they're really struggling to kind of put away all of those chances.

50:27Roger Bennett:But at the same time, it will take time for him to get used to the team, to understand the way that Arsenal work, to find his place within Arteta's system. Maybe 13 minutes in a friendly against Tottenham isn't the best way to judge him. Roger, maybe that's just me being a bit too soft, I don't know. Feels a bit quick. Yeah, don't take away our ability to freak the F out. It's why we watch.

50:54Talking of early in Harlem, Manchester City, fascinating to read Pep Guardiola's interview with GQ, which came out last week, which has triggered just a slew of headlines. not like the tabloids to take something he said to an extreme but the consensus is Pep is contemplating a 15-year break from the game. He actually said, I don't know how long I'll stop for after the Manchester City job. A year, two years, three years, five, 10, 15, I don't know but I will leave after this spell with City because I need to stop and focus on myself and on my body. Gent is both A. Shattered B. Making no secret of his exhaustion Honestly shades of Jurgen Klopp saying he was so tired Pet last season remember seemed absolutely knackered, burnt out to his core, scraping his face in agony in game after game We've talked about this, elite football management is soul grinding business but we also know the modern game does not relent And it really doesn't allow for decades-long dominance mentally, tactically at the top of the game.

52:04What are we witnessing exactly here in this moment with Pep Guardiola as he girds his loins to stop? Well, it is a massive rebuild, or do we not know until it happens and then we kind of retrofit our analysis?

52:16Roger Bennett:That tends to be the way it works, doesn't it? There's part of me that thinks this is Pep's last season. There's part of me that thinks the reason he signed that contract extension last year was to effectively allow him the same thing Klopp had which was to which is to resign to retire whatever it might be without having that endless drumbeat of will he won't he in the months leading up to it that he can just say look I've signed this contract I'm here for another two years there is part of me that thinks he leaves City at the end of this coming season as you say he's tired he said he's tired he looks tired he's now talking about needing a break if you're a player that doesn't necessarily feel like the right kind of vibe going into the season you're like you're the man who's meant to like lead you being like do you know what guys I am knackered I'm not sure I've got this in me anymore I need a 15 year break or a 10 year break whatever it might be I don't know if he will manage a club again that's always looked a little bit kind of it's always looked a bit like City might be his last club job there might be a national team in it somewhere for him um maybe inland maybe brazil probably not spain but i think he knows he needs a break he looks like he needs a break and maybe the usa but the question really has to be does he have the energy to start this rebuild this season that is the pressing issue with city can guardiola find a way find it within himself to build up that head of steam that city need to kind of restore that aura if they win their first eight ten games then it will all be about Guardiola's rebirth, his final last great act as a manager.

53:46Roger Bennett:If there are a couple of missteps, then you wonder whether maybe he doesn't get to have the goodbye that he wants and deserves at City. I said the USA needs more palindromes in our footballing infrastructure. Pep, Pep is a palindrome. I'm going to speak that into existence from City to Manchester United. I watched them yesterday battle Everton to a really stop-start 2-2 draw at the Benz in Atlanta. Some fine flourishes, as to be said, from Brian Mbumo on his debut, his understanding already with Cunha and Bruno. It's going to unlock, let me just say, a lot of Premier League back lines this year.

54:26Lovely cameo, too, from Mason Mount, who's looked lively, a fine dagger of a goal from him. Midfield looks a little short, a little slow, a little mono-paced. goalkeeper situation is continuing to create anxious questions around the club. But all the reports coming out of the travelling media are so bloody upbeat. Culture change. A lot of talk about that. This is the team who were the worst Premier League manifestation of Manchester United last season that led to Ruben Amorim apologising to the fans and then offering to resign. James Ducker wrote in The Telegraph, I am on Manchester United's tour and the culture's changing.

55:06Raw, yes, they beat Bournemouth and West Ham and Drew to Everton. But pre-season, I mean, we can't really declare sea change off pre-season. Is it just that he left Alejandro Garnaccio, Anthony, Jadon Sancho, Malassia as a bomb squad training in Manchester during this tour, so he's firmly in control? Is it wishful thinking? I do think a lot of people in the media would love a Premier League when Manchester United back is back. We're just not going to know again until they play Arsenal on that first day of the season, are we?

55:38Roger Bennett:Well, no, we may not even know by then, to be honest. And also, I think we have to define what do we mean by back? Because has Amarim's kind of quite drastic sort of action on the squad, as you say, leaving five players behind, making it clear that several quite big stars aren't really wanted anymore? Has that maybe increased the level of discipline in the squad? Has it asserted his authority? Yeah, I can believe that. That makes sense. have the signings of Mateus Cunha and Brian Mbwemo improved the squad? yes Mbwemo in particular are they going to turn Manchester United into a team capable of getting into the Champions League?

56:11Roger Bennett:probably not not from like 15th in the Premier League are they going to turn Manchester United into prospective champions? no definitely not so like are Manchester United back in the sense that they might not be a jolt this season? yes maybe could be possibly I don't know are they back in terms of where they think Manchester United should be? no obviously not that will take ages I think it's been a slow summer for United and that's not what they needed at all and even though I love Mbwema as a player I think he's a great signing Cunha I'm a little bit less sure of I don't think they turn this into a fully functioning Ruben Amarim team and that's what they went through all of that pain last season to do that they knew they had to get a team that could play 3-4-2-1 and literally no other formation Rog because there are no other formations that's the best one and they've signed two players who kind of fit in but not really and now were they meant to have turned the corner completely?

57:03I think it is, like you say, I think it's wishful thinking.

57:06Roger Bennett:I think the fans and around, you know, a variety of, obviously the fans and the executives will clearly want them to be back to where they were. But there is a media presence that wants to believe that Manchester United are coming again because it would be a great story. But I don't think there's any real evidence for it. Be the ultimate story. We're no longer a mean club. That's worth the trophy. Very quickly, bring it up the rear in this show and in life, Everton Football Club. We were told the new stadium was going to change everything. The headline's not so thrilling right now today. Everton in danger of false start in new home, which is a bit of a downer.

57:40Not going to lie. Last Friday on stage was magical. I've talked about it up top with Tark and Sheamus and then Di and Moisey. It was a night of nights, but I couldn't sleep. I've not talked about this. All night afterwards, my eyeballs were just like seared by the image, the experience of David Moyes staring into my soul and demanding nine or ten new players before the season starts. Yesterday, he said, I think there'll be deals next week. I think we're getting closer. But I felt that four or five weeks ago. Obviously, we're getting near, this is a real quote, we're getting near the tickly bits.

58:16And we've got to get some things done. I don't think Moyes, of Moyes, is like a tickly bits kind of guy. and I assume that's a euphemism for a quick swift punch in the down below or a Glasgow kiss. Is this a moment of panic or is this just modern football where there's now nine Premier League teams in Europe next season? If you add the three newly promoted teams, Everton are just one of the other eight and are kind of condemned to pick up the scraps, the flotsam, the jetsam, the sloppy seconds talent-wise.

58:46Roger Bennett:Yeah, and if you look across the Premier League, there's quite a lot of teams who are in that same position and ones who are higher up the food chain than Everton's and Newcastle have struggled to get deals done this season and so have Aston Villa who are two of the great upwardly mobile sides. They're both blaming PSR which works in both Newcastle and Villa's case by completely disregarding all of the money you have spent in previous windows and pretending it didn't happen and just assuming you should be able to spend as much as you like all of the time. I think that there are a cast of clubs who will have to wait until later in August to get their deals done and that is, from Everton's point of view, not ideal.

59:22Roger Bennett:The one thing that I would say, you know, I don't want to criticise Grandpa David, but the one thing that kind of worries me a little bit is that Moyes did previously have a reputation for being a little bit indecisive on players, for being a little bit too careful with money. And you wonder whether Everton can't really afford that anymore. I think about it, we just, and part of the stuff we discussed, we've got an entire new front office. Angus Kinnear, CEO from Leeds. Nick Cox leaving Manchester United to become our technical director. James Smith coming from Manchester City to be the new head of recruitment.

59:55All of these moves have just been made. It's going to take a moment to click. That's what I fear. It's just like new guys trying to set up their system. Well, you know, the deals need to be done now. I have no doubt it will be worked out in time. I just hope we can get our, you know, our crap together in that time because those arrivals, that front office does symbolize a club. with aspiration. One other quick bit of news. Welcome back to America, Matt Turner. New England Revolution have brought the US goalkeeper back from Leon on loan, I believe, with an option to buy. I love Matt Turner. I've never hidden this.

1:00:31He's one of the most, I mean, he's just one of the warmest, loveliest human beings I've met in football. I find his rise inspirational. He's written off every single level of the way on his way up from college to MLS. No one gave him a chance. He fought his way in. And he then went to Arsenal, the club he supported as a kid. It was magical. It did not work out for him there. It did not work out for him at Nossian Forest, where he really lost his confidence and the playing time. I just think may he reclaim the playing time and all that's great, because he can still be a leader on this US team that cries out for leadership.

1:01:03And now he's got the plus of having his kids, his young kids get real Bostonian accents. Godspeed to you. But, Ro, let's finish this up with a letter from a GFOP of Wonder, Ned Fisher from Charlottesville, Virginia. Ned, email us. We'll send you a coveted MIB patch. I do love this question. Let's dive on in. Ro, do the honours.

1:01:26Roger Bennett:Greetings. My name is Ned Fisher, long time listener, huge fan of the show, but a first time writer or caller. I'm a middle school history teacher from Charlottesville, Virginia, who is currently staying at Exeter College in Oxford. That's a confusing college name for a summer writing course. That sounds idyllic. I feel very fortunate to be learning here with such a diverse multicultural group of students. I'm also fortunate because I will be here next week for the opening of the EFL season and have booked myself a ticket to watch Oxford United play Portsmouth at Disney FC. I am writing to ask for any advice or recommendations for an American attending his first club match in the UK.

1:01:59Roger Bennett:I'm a neutral in this match, but plan to go all in for the day on Oxford and buy the shirt, an Oxford shirt. is there anything you'd advise about the match day experience I should know to maximise the memories anything you might share would be happily welcome thank you so much for all you do you guys got me through COVID and beyond best Ned Fisher I'm presuming that we got him through COVID like spiritually rather than medically I'm not sure either of us are qualified to do that Rog I'm not a doctor but I play one on podcast tv I'm so happy for Ned in this moment first ever game after all this time.

1:02:32It is ecstatic. God bless Roar, you're more the Oxbridge type than I am, so I'm going to let you take the reins here, baby, about how Ned can make great memories.

1:02:43Roger Bennett:I think, well, the only thing I'd really say is sit among the hardcore of the fans. I think that's the really important thing to do. Go and sit in an end. Sit in whichever end at the Chassam Stadium, I think it's still called. The Oxford fans are gathered. Be as close to that part of the stadium as possible. That is how you'll you'll get the most like immersive experience absorb everything be around the stadium a couple of hours before the game watch watch the crowd build up there's no tailgating culture in england but people will start to come through the streets around the stadium within a couple of hours beforehand try and walk if you can the kassam is out of oxford city center but it will be possible to get that either by public transport or just by walking make it a day and an experience and then And yeah, be as close to the heart of the action in the stands as you can be.

1:03:33Roger Bennett:And I think that's how you get the most out of it. I've been to a game at Oxford. I went for a pint at a plate. Was it the Georgian? Go and get a pie. I love Rory's advice, advice for any game. Get there so early that you can be there and just see the day kind of form and create around you. It's really, I find it so deeply, profoundly energizing. I find it very moving. that you're about to so consciously get the first game. I do remember the days when I used to take my family to... I mean, this was not so long ago. This is how football's changed. I used to say to them in the car, this is the last time you should open your mouth.

1:04:12Any American at a game would get their head kicked, or was at risk of getting their head kicked in. Now it's so common, you're kind of welcome. The Rory's advice, sit amongst the hardcore, is hilarious. Like 10 years ago, I'd be panicked that you'd stand up in the middle of the hardcore and just start chanting, fight or die. Just like get, you know, get a bit too into it, but just enjoy it. It's just a joyous experience. Oxford is a, I mean, I empathize with Oxford. Gary Rowett is their manager. You know, not so long ago, man with huge, huge aspirations. Now he's playing at a club where I think one of the chants is something like, we're on the march with Rowett's army.

1:04:55We're staying in this effing league. which I just love like that. That is the hope. Yeah, but the use of the word effing means that you're actually overcompensating. You have some doubt about whether that's going to happen. Just both a sign of optimism and fear of the worst, which is an Evertonian I really, really admire. So I love it. Ned, send us photos most of all. I love your letter. Enjoy your day. Enjoy your entire trip to England. Send us so many images. That is it. We are headed to London ourselves at MIB to shoot our Premier League holiday. We are going over. We're going to shoot our interviews, the pre-season interviews with the likes of Pep, Mikel Arteta, Virgil van Dijk.

1:05:41We're going to be going up and down and up and down again, the length and breadth in a really compact time of England. Roar, when I next see you, it will be in person in London. We're taping our season previews in person.

1:05:54Roger Bennett:We are. I was just thinking, Roger, if you're on up and down England, do you want to borrow my camper van? I was going to say we should tape in the camper van in London. Let's tape in the van. In South London. I'm not parking the van in London. Be a nightmare. I'd love it. I'd love it. God, I'll prize your hubcaps off myself. Roar, enjoy the rest of your holiday, you beautiful man. I'm going to live vicariously through you, your Crown Prince of Harrogate turned Baron of the Loire Valley. Baron d 'Amboise. I'm going to go. It's very hot here, Roger. now I'm being sat in a van now for a while and that for the lighting for the video has it kind of lift all the um all the shutters up and stuff I'm now really really hot I'm going to go and jump in a pool that's my plan all for a video because because of how great the video is going to take out about 800 views but this is Rog sending you big love let's not take a second of watching football together for granted and courage