Crystal Palace flip the script on Liverpool, Arsenal gut it out over Newcastle, and no one knows what a handball is anymore: Men in Blazers 09/29/25

17:28Rory Smith:The system Liverpool have played for 10 years, to be perfectly honest. And it's the same here. They feel a bit like a team that wants to be something else, but to take that final step to transform is quite difficult. And at the same time, you're trying to bed in all of these new signings, you're trying to change the balance of the side. There are lots of little gaps in Liverpool. It's not a coherent hold yet. That's the impression I've had all season. And it's what they really looked like, especially in that first half at Southest Park.

17:58Rog Bennett:Don't we all want to be something else raw? In a way, aren't we all Liverpool at the moment? But Palace are Palace. And this is what was so crazy about the game to me. They played, yes, kinetic, kind of mind-melding, counter-attacking Oliver Glasner, masterclass football. System is so well drilled into these players. so deeply. The press triggered when to go. The counter the same. I mean, it was singeing stuff to witness. But as I said earlier, they did exactly what it says on the tin. They could have had three or four. Alisson was making blocks like Dikembe Mutombo. Three immense saves within 23 minutes.

18:35Rog Bennett:First from Pino getting down to Parry at the post was astonishing, but there were so many of them it kind of got lost in the glut. I mean, God bless Alisson. his positioning, his courage. I mean, I said it before, his strong wrists of a young owner, this is amazing. Yeah, he produced, I'd say,

18:53Rory Smith:three top-class saves that prevent Liverpool going into halftime, not just being beaten the game basically over, but being humiliated. Walloped. Yeah, being genuinely thrashed. But the contrast to Alisson was the performance mainly on Saturday of Ibrahim Akarnate. And that's the other thing that's affected Liverpool this season is that individually, Usually, they seem very... Certain players seem very shaky. Alexis McAllister looks like a shadow of himself. And so what you end up with is this disjointed performance, this team that doesn't quite know where it wants to be or what it wants to be, with individual suffering, and the goalkeeper having to bail them out.

19:29Rory Smith:But that said, Rog, I would just make one quick point. It's not cheating to have a good goalkeeper. Like, it's allowed. That's why you have a goalkeeper. It's why Liverpool paid that much money for Alisson, so that when they don't play very well, he gets them out of trouble. That is, to quote Roy Keane, Kind of his job.

19:44Rog Bennett:I know what it's like to have an astonishing goalkeeper. We also have one who's astonishing, but also does the memes, the jokes, the bants. It's amazing. I mean, it did feel as if Palace entered the dangerous territory of Rui not taking many of these chances. I mean, there were some moves that were utterly stunning. There was a move that ended in a Mateta shot that just crashed off the bar, which was truly one of the greatest moves of a weekend pat with them. But then Henderson was strong in the face of a close-range flick from Verts. Isak danced through, but lashed wide. But then Chiesa came on.

20:19Rog Bennett:And 87th minute, ball played in from Frimpong. Salah's arm up confused poor Chris Richards, who stooped to head it only to that little care bear of Italian joy. Scuffed his shot, actually, but sometimes you hit it imperfectly and it utterly fools the keeper. And poor Henderson, who played out of his socks too, was stranded, ball bounced up and in. Only surprise to me was that Chiesa didn't score again in the 94th minute rule. But in that moment, did you think, God, we are doing it again?

20:47Rory Smith:To be honest, my main reaction was kind of Liverpool just about deserve that on the balance of the second half. They got away with it completely in the first half. But in that second half, they did create a lot of chances. They penned Palace right back. If you look at the XG, they did to Palace in the second half what Palace had done to them in the first half. But my type of fandom, Rog, is not sort of positive. it's not sunny side fandom my sense is always if you're scoring late goals then something is going wrong and you are kind of dancing with the devil a little bit because at some point you might get hoist by your own petard and I'm only thankful Rog that the game finished on 90 minutes and it didn't happen on Saturday what's up next what are we talking about next

21:26Rog Bennett:did you turn your TV off

21:27Rory Smith:and just be like

21:28Rog Bennett:oh well that'll do

21:29Rory Smith:that point will do

21:31Rog Bennett:I'll take your point I love it by the way I always feel like when Everson get themselves back into a game and it's 1-1 I get greedy and I'm like, you know, we're going to win this and then actually we get beat and I always regret the feeling. I would have taken a tie. I would have taken a tie. That is not really a Liverpool fan feeling because the biggest shock perhaps of the season's throw so far there was a late goal in this game. There were mentality monsters, but it was not Liverpool. Instead, ecstatic 97th minute, Eddie Nketiah, substitute, kid who joined the Arsenal Academy age 14, used the skills that he'd forged at Hale End to chest the ball down exquisitely and finish ruthlessly, reeling away, just empathetically connecting both to the fans and no doubt to Arsenal Nation in that moment.

22:20Rog Bennett:I mean, that was probably one of the biggest goals he's ever scored for Arsenal Football Club to deliver first home win for Palace against Liverpool in 11 long years, run now of 18 games undefeated, club record. Palace are your Premier League's last undefeated team, Roar. Oliver Glaston, football genius. Football's amazing.

22:40Rory Smith:The job he's done at Palace is extraordinary. I mean, the fact that they're 18 unbeaten had kind of caught me by surprise, because obviously they were one of the fieldwood stories at the tail end of last season, but that was to do with the FA Cup. You weren't really paying attention to their lead form, because by that stage, you know, they were safe, they weren't going to get into Europe. It was kind of immaterial. They were playing to an extent to get to the cup final and then they start this season so well in the context of losing Eberichi Eze really late the doubts over Mark Gay right until the last hour of the transfer window they're having to kind of retool their squad on the fly not knowing quite what it's going to look like in terms of whether two of their major players are going to be there that was already on the back of losing Michael Alise to Bayern Munich last summer the fact that Glasner has managed to kind of keep crafting this team into this incredibly well-oiled unit is a genuinely astonishing achievement.

23:32Rory Smith:When they appointed Glasner, his record in Germany was good, but it wasn't kind of eye-catchingly good. He'd done well at Eintracht Frankfurt, but he'd had ups and downs at Wolfsburg and stuff. And it looked like a kind of middle-of-the-road appointment. But I think what it shows is just that if you get the right manager at the right club with the right group of players, really special things happen because, I mean, they're third in the Premier League. And again, caveat, asterisk, we're only six games in, it's dead early, not, you know, realise all that stuff. But given the summer he had, for them to have started this well is jaw-dropping.

24:08Rog Bennett:I mean, it is amazing too, our middle-of-the-road kind of manager. Palace were the ultimate, aspirationally middle-of-the-road club. I'm old enough to remember when Roy Hodgson was at 2023, that quote, The fans have been spoiled here in recent times. When he talked, I mean, essentially, he was like, we're mid-table. This is what we do. You shouldn't aspire to more. Scraping for survival was meant to be their lot. As you say, they're now third place with Chex Notes Everton Football Club next. I mean, it is amazing. Oliver Glass has built an incredible culture. They're not a Brentford. They're not a Brighton.

24:41Rog Bennett:They're not a Bournemouth like systems clubs with brilliant recruitment. There is just something truly. and as you say, they prized, had players prized away and, you know, it wasn't clear. That's why Gehi ultimately was forced to stay. Oliver Glaston was seething. I mean, this is not planful stuff, but it is utterly, utterly magnificent. Very quickly, can they keep it up playing in Europe now with games twice a week about to enter that routine? Currently in third. Is this the Crystal Palace title push season?

25:10Rory Smith:I wish it was, Rog. And even as a defeated fan, I find it really hard to begrudge them that victory, not least as I think they deserved it on the day. Liverpool improving in the second half notwithstanding. But the way the club is run, the fact that it is, like you say, a really human kind of triumph, it's not kind of machines and data. And this is our clever little trick that we do. It's just that they've got a great manager. They've got some really good characters in the dressing room. Gehi being prime amongst them, being able to kind of put that move that he wanted desperately behind him to kick on is extraordinary.

25:40Rory Smith:Testament to Glasner. It's going to be a real shame when he takes the Manchester United job. What system does he play again,

25:46Rog Bennett:well is it what is it is it three three at the back roger three at the back and he's quite good

25:50Rory Smith:at it um but the the the really the really encouraging thing the really important lesson

25:56Rog Bennett:the parable of crystal palace roger yeah please is that they were for a long time this kind of

26:01Rory Smith:byword for why you shouldn't dream because they they'd moved away early in their premier league tenure from having sort of wise and grizzled british managers and they'd appointed a guy called Frank De Boer, who was an Ajax legend, this sort of sophisticated continental. I don't want to speak about Britain too badly, Roger, but we don't like sophisticated continentals anymore. We don't trust them. We're not really in that stage of our development. And Palace appointed De Boer, and it went horribly wrong. They didn't win for seven games. He got sacked. And for years and years and years, it was, don't be like Palace.

26:35Rory Smith:Stick with what you know. Stay in your lane. Don't have any ambition. and in a point in Glasner Palace broke with that because to be honest it had defined the club for a long time you know they had been managed by Sam Allardyce and Tony Pulis and Roy Hodgson it was they wanted experience they wanted people who were safe pairs of hands and they went and got Glasner and it felt like a risk because Palace were doing the De Boer thing again and it's worked so brilliantly that to be honest it should be an advert to every other team in that position every other club that feels a bit like a middle of the road Premier League mainstay type club roll the dice trust yourself to get it right trust your gut and trust your judgement because I don't think Palace can win the league I don't think they'll sustain the title challenge if I'm completely honest but they can probably get into the Champions League just because the Premier League is so balanced and they have so much talent and they also have this unity of purpose and that tends to be quite important

27:31Rog Bennett:God, Palace in the Champions League that is the stuff I hate the Super League but that would be the proper Super League That would be a really super league. Make it happen. I made a film about Palace in 2015, back when Alan Pardew briefly, fleetingly had them dreaming. They signed Johan Cabai, you know, PSG-caliber player, arriving at Palace, and they were really dreaming. It obviously crashed and burned for both Cabai and ultimately after flickering with Wunder and Pardew. But that place, South London, that fan base, the core of that team who really appreciate this, an incredible symbiosis, an incredible authentic locality.

28:13Rog Bennett:I hope they dream and I hope they make those dreams real more than I could ever say. Magnificent weekend. Savour this season, Palace fans. I say as a neutral, it was magnificent to watch. It is magnificent to watch. And Liverpool, their serve finally broken. Could Arsenal capitalise? Well, yes, they could. Newcastle won, Arsenal too. After that trademark sleeper agent and Kecha did the business. Arsenal then had to, oh my God, go to their dread place. St. James' Park, a place that has really been their own hellish torment of late. Lost three, I think, of the last four there. League Cup semi-final, lost two.

28:51Rog Bennett:Tune in their heads, as you have to say. Joe Linton, Guy Mares seem somehow to have like magical cloaks of invisibility protection when they're playing Arsenal in which they never, ever get booked. But the game within the game rule was really, for me, the extent to which, You know, Mikel Arteta's taken a lot of crap since the Manchester City game. And I wondered how much would he internalise that criticism? You know, after the Liverpool loss, the Manchester City late draw, you know, conservative, risk-averse, caution. He inserted Eze here in the number 10 alongside Basaka Baka. And it was magnificent to watch.

29:24Rog Bennett:I will say in the opening exchange, I spent time with Bakayo Saka last week. And he talked about just how much he loves to play with Eze, just like their London roots coming through. you said both of us grew up playing like streetball and you saw it, he's a delicious flick and drive, wondrously saved by Pope. Then an Arsenal penalty given, then Vardov after Pope had taken down Jocares, got the slice of the touch on the ball so it was reversed. That turned St. James' Park into almost cauldron settings, Roar. But it was overall a bright, positive, ambitious, let history remember Roar, opening gambit for Mikel Arteta with his non-finishing starters.

30:00Rory Smith:Yeah, I wonder whether he has recognised, not more than the criticism he got for the City game, but he's recognised that Newcastle aren't a team that can be bullied. Of all the teams in the Premier League, Newcastle are probably the most resistant to Arsenal's physicality. I don't say that in a critical way in the slightest. Arsenal are a big, imposing team, but Newcastle are bigger. It's a land of giants at St James' Park. And I wonder whether Arteta recognised that in that game, where your physical kind of force can't be the edge, then you need a little bit of invention to break Newcastle down.

30:35Rory Smith:And in that first half, I thought Arsenal did that really, really well. They looked bright and inventive and creative. And that is Newcastle's weak spot, as it is quite a lot of teams' weak spots, to be honest, rather than that kind of physical sort of rolling over teams

30:50Rog Bennett:that Arsenal tend to do. I mean, it was dance, Billy, dance kind of stuff in the early exchanges. as Saka initiated a flowing move, saw Trossard thrash run off the bar. Eze, another mid-range lash, well parried by Poop again. Felt like one-way traffic for a while until Mosquera mishit a clearance, spanned backwards, agonising the out for a corner, kind of Chekhov's gun style. Newcastle played it in, and your new favourite cult hero, 6 '6", Nick Voltemada, rose up, gave Gabriel the slightest of touches, which Gabriel then treated as if he'd been hit in the back of the head with a Louisville slugger.

31:26Rog Bennett:Valtemar, the delicious neck strength. It has to be said to flip that ball home like some kind of German Yao Ming. It was gobsmacking, Roar, to see him in that second. I am here. I am your new cult hero. He looks like an enormous Victorian statue has been ripped from its base, had a fairly dodgy footballer haircut slapped on and then sent out onto the field. But God bless Gabriel. Man who was pushed in the back 2023 when Newcastle's goal against the Gunners probably should have been disallowed here though. He just felt gravity more than normal human beings roar. Watching Arsenal complain about physicality on the corner, I think Alonis Morissette invented the word ironic just for that situation.

32:05Rory Smith:Yeah, I don't want to sound bitter and I'm conscious that I am exposing myself to that risk. But watching Arsenal, they do complain quite a lot. And obviously most teams in the Premier League complain. Most teams are bad losers, for example. I don't think that's a criticism that anyone in football should ever level at anybody else because they're all bad losers. But Arsenal do complain a lot. And part of me wonders whether they need to kind of rein that in for their own benefit.

32:37Rog Bennett:Oh, Ro, I want to talk to you about this. Really, really, really. I feel the same. There is a sense of it. You saw immediately Gabriel reacted by giving Volta Marder really just a quick little elbow of revenge. in, I will say, not the most impressive of ways. And God bless the German, try to give them a Bremen wedgie right back. Stadium was just, it was like a rocking, don't come a knocking. I mean, tune up the physicality. You wonder how Arsenal would respond. Watching them in the exchanges, a root in my nose, just an emotionalism. It's a truth for Arsenal. Arsenal fans don't love to hear it.

33:10Rog Bennett:Just a lack of composure in the minutes after that goal. And it starts with, and I love this man, starts with Mikel Arteta. His reaction is to just become more and more frantic on the sideline. I think back to Dominic Sobosai last season. I asked him, what do you see when you look at Arna Slott and he's just standing there stoically on the sideline? And he came up with a great line. He said, I see a man with a plan and that plan is working. Arteta's the complete opposite. He kind of acts out every single move from the talking head stop making sense concert on the sideline. Just the ongoing narrative about Arsenal.

33:46Rog Bennett:Are they too emotional? You watch how they dealt with conceding that 10 minutes afterwards, where it's mostly about wallowing in their own sense of injustice and pity.

33:55Rory Smith:Yeah, they feel like a team who believe that the world is kind of arranged against them in a way that I think is not true. Like, it fundamentally isn't true. And obviously, in this instance, either they managed to put that out of their minds or they managed to channel it into something positive. But I think over the course of the last three seasons, that hasn't been the case. and it's still the one kind of question mark I have with Arsenal because we know they have the deepest squad in the Premier League. We know that they have the best defence in the country, probably the best defence in Europe, as Pep Guardiola said.

34:28Rory Smith:You know they have goals, they have creativity, they have physicality. They are, I think, the best example of kind of this iteration of the Premier League. They are this Premier League, the way the Premier League has gone, what it has become. Arsenal are its final form. but the thing that will scupper them is their, or could scupper them, is kind of their reaction to adversity, because it's still to complain, it's to surround the referee, to point fingers, to look a little bit like they're whining, to be honest, and as you say, if Gabriel makes a slightly better connection, he'd probably get sent off, and we are not having this conversation.

35:08Rog Bennett:I mean, you've nailed it, that squad, so many, that was the central question in that second half, the squad, the options, I mean, so many options, so many combinations, so many possibilities in that. Almost too many options. It's a new challenge for Arteta, working out the instruction manual about how to, you know, does he stick? Does he twist starter, finisher-wise? Because he knew from that point on, Newcastle, who are formidable, is it four clean sheets going into this one out of five games? You know, he knew they were going to go Citadel down. He knew Arsenal have struggled to score there forever.

35:41Rog Bennett:He knew Jocares was unable to win a duel for long spells against those giant toon centre-backs. I think Timber had a close-range header snuffed out by Pope in the second half. Gabriel Martinelli and Mikel Moreno were flung on to replace Bucaio and Caliafuri. Erdegaard came on, but the best chances still kept falling to Newcastle on the break. Started to feel like the game was seeping away from Newcastle. Then in the 84th minute, Rice took a short corner on the left, returned, arced in a wicked cross with whip. And Mikel Marino, like a man in a rom-com, the love of your life, he was right there all this time, the number nine you cried out for.

36:20Rog Bennett:Just leapt up, flicked a quite artful header, disguised it really past the stunned Nick Pope and breathe Arsenal fans. Former Newcastle player too, celebrated, of course he did. Mikel Marino's your real one. Arteta's finishes, strike again, dot, dot, dot, if only a starters could do likewise. In the Men in Blazers Discord. Buster for Joe Starr wrote, I've spent about 80 minutes thinking what a stupid sport this is and why am I even watching it? And then he came back after Marino goal all capping, this is why I watch. And I love that, Buster for it's the essence of football and life. But there was more to come, Roar.

36:55Rog Bennett:We've got to touch very quickly. We've got to touch later on on that Gabriel handball off the Langer. There was also, I think, Matty Cash in the Aston Villa game not given. Roar, quickly, are we get a point here handball a law that is now so opaque so open to such vastly different interpretations by by both pundits but more importantly by referees is it now is it purely discretionary because it does seem to be based on such inputs as vibes and mood i think a lot of it is vibes does it have the handbally vibe that seems to be what they're going for yeah i so

37:28Rory Smith:apparently the one with with a lender is because it it deflected off his body i didn't know that was part of the rules they just seem to be adding extra bits to these things but increasingly rog and handball's you're right handball's always been the kind of the pioneering rule here increasingly i don't know about a lot of the rules because you see shirt pulls not given that look blatant and then in another game on the same weekend you'll see a shirt pull given that looks less blatant i have no idea what the rules are i have no idea what the what the kind of bar is for for re-refereeing things.

38:02Rory Smith:I know that they are re-refereeing things. They are looking... The Arsenal penalty was actually quite a good example of it. The Arsenal penalty that wasn't given. The whole thing is completely opaque to me now. I think that... And I think increasingly, I think it's a much more serious issue than we think it is. It's much more serious than should Newcastle have had a penalty. It's can the fans trust what's going on on the pitch? I think increasingly, people feel like they can't.

38:30Rog Bennett:Oh my God, you just sent a chill through me I mean you're talking about democracy ending within football weirdly I think I'm talking about

38:37Rory Smith:tyranny ending in football I think that I mean maybe there's a stage where we where we like where we vote on whether stuff's a handball maybe that's what oh my god that would be genuinely amazing to be honest it would be better it would be better if you could if you could vote on whether

38:51Rog Bennett:it feels like a handball by the way if it works for Love Island why not import that great idea Premier League make it. We need vibe tables instead of the league table. We need to vote on hand balls. I think we've just fixed football rule. I mean, I will say, in the moment, I was like, the point is good for Arsenal, even though I'll be honest also, I was dreading the whole week narrative where everyone piles on to Arteta dropping points early. Is their title charge over? But not so fast. At the death, 96 minute, Nick Pope, who'd been such a hero throughout this game, muffed the kick, which led to Arsenal winning another, Oh, my God.

39:26Rog Bennett:Dread corner. Odegaard, God bless him, caressing in swinger. Saliba blocked out Nick Pope, a bit like Charles Barkley. And Gabriel had to be him, right? Premier League writers were on one this weekend. Gabriel Lahil, remember him from the first half? Became the exclamation point hero at the end. Pounded that ball home. Celebrated in front of the Newcastle fans. As they always say in life, he who corners last, corners longest, whatever that phrase is, raw. 36 goals from corners for Arsenal since 2023-24 15 more than any other side Arsenal without corners I like the idea of me with hair it's just like inconceivable but back to Arsenal Raw Mikel Arteta said his team had shown the Premier League who we are do you believe in statement wins Raw?

40:15Rog Bennett:is that a thing?

40:16Rory Smith:no and I need to it's difficult because this is I wish I could farm this one out to AI as well because it's hard for me to separate or to be certain that I'm separating my fan self from my rational being self.

40:29Rog Bennett:Like Severance.

40:31Rory Smith:Yeah, exactly. Your innie and your outie. This is my innie or possibly, I can't remember. This is the one that makes sense. My innie and my outie are both the same, by the way, but go on. I think mine might be too. It did feel like a big vibe shift this weekend. The combination of the two late goals obviously Liverpool is still top they will probably be no more than a point off the top going into the international break which is a perfectly good turnaround for Liverpool, not a problem but it did feel as though that kind of aura they'd started to build up of things kind of fall in their favour, they always find a way that has evaporated at the same time as Arsenal have suddenly discovered this kind of, you know, we'll fight to the end mentality type thing as well Mentality monsters?

41:18Rory Smith:Mentality monsters So there has been an unquestionable vibe shift. How important that is, we don't know, because it's six games in and it's still September rugs. But if I was to have one little quibble, it's that I'm pretty sure over the last three years there have been lots of statement wins from Arsenal, results that have been held up as this is proof that they are ready, they can do it now. You know, you think back to Odegaard with the camera after beating Liverpool, the win against Manchester City, the win against Manchester United, I think, at the Emirates at one point. There have been all these various results where you think, okay, this is Arsenal, they will now kick on, they are ready.

41:55Rory Smith:And it doesn't work like that because they have to play football again next week. The statement win is not worth any more points than the normal win. So they've got West Ham at home next week, I am 99 % certain they will win that. But they haven't yet proven, and it's a little bit unfair to judge Arteta like this, they haven't yet proven that these statement wins have any long-term meaning. That's the problem.

42:19Rog Bennett:And we've seen them make statement wins and then get smacked by West Ham. I mean, that, again, sends chill. Those are the games that do Arsenal in. I hope that that is not the case. I do want to say Sparrow thought for Newcastle. Twice this season, they've welcomed title challenges, made them suffer and experienced defeat at the very last second. Sparrow thought too for Nick Pope, who was scintillating throughout and then at the end fumbled the bag. But Arsenal, tenacious on this day. The fans did live every single emotion. I do think Mikel Arteta will really draw so much from this comeback win.

42:53Rog Bennett:Two points to the gap, scenes at the end. Arsenal going berserk. Arteta, delirious players. You know, joyful. I know the celebration police will be out raw, and we'll talk more about that in just one moment. But I do understand it. St. James' Park has been a human agony. They were looking into the abyss here. They proved themselves to themselves. really knock back their critics. And I think we'll draw the most important thing that is the most precious currency in football that they'll take from this, which is belief. Godspeed. Brentford 3, talking about belief. Manchester United 1. In the Christian Eriksen derby, United had the chance to do something really important, which is try to win back-to-back Premier League games for the first time in the Ruben Amarim era.

43:39Rog Bennett:Holy crap, that is incredible in its own right. And to do that, after that mud fight victory against 10 men Chelsea last week, the tactical autocrat had to visit the scene of many a crime, Brentford's GTEC. I think twice in the last few visits, United had somehow conceded four goals. A place where Mbumo returned after moving to the Bees for a$95 million club record over the summer. His every touch was booed as if he was some kind of Brentford Benedict Arnold. Brentford really were ready for this. Who needs a Wieser? Who needs an Mbumo? who needs even a Norgaard. They knew United would do their confident opening then falling apart thing.

44:16Rog Bennett:And in the ninth minute, Cunha dispossessed, lay on the floor as the ball was thumped down the field quite brilliantly by Jordan Henderson. Yes, him, Igor Thiago, left alone on the halfway line with Harry Maguire, who did as James in the Discord channel described as the best cha-cha slide offside trap. One hop this time that the world has ever seen. Igor ran on by India, frozen on the line as the Brazilian thumped past him. Bayon Deer, let the history say, had two fine saves inside 60 seconds right after that to keep his team in it. But then on 20 minutes again, Igor, Thiago slapping home through an already exhausted keeper.

44:54Rog Bennett:By the way, Thiago, young man, made a club record signing last season. I think he was out for almost the entire season with an almost instant meniscus tear. So happy for him. But Raw, Brentford had already dropped eight points from winning positions this season. Was it actually United's plan to cede the lead crazy like a Fox star?

45:15Rory Smith:That would suggest that this whole United collapse is part of some sort of long-term aim. So that in 2068, when they win the lead again, we're going to look back and say, well, actually, that whole thing was so they could build to this one championship. No, I don't think so. I think Manchester United are just not that good.

45:36Rog Bennett:Yeah, proof of that. And another incredible United. These United States are shocking. Not one on the road in seven games dating back to March. That's incredible. United have not won on the road since March. I mean, mind-blowing. They did get themselves back into it through the most unexpected of sources. Benjamin Shesko. Dorgo kept the ball and looped it across. Poor Shesko needed three attempts to smash it. Kelleher, who when it's huge, was like watching a pickleball rally before Shesko somehow smashed home his first ever United goal. Seventh game for the club. I've got to ask you the obvious theological question quickly, Ro.

46:10Rog Bennett:When Szczesko scores, is that an official sign of the apocalypse, the end of days?

46:15Rory Smith:I felt more relief for him than anything, to be honest with you.

46:18Rog Bennett:You didn't feel like we were all marching to the valley of death?

46:20Rory Smith:No, I mean, I feel like that generally, but no. I mean, I think if you look around the world, there's quite a lot of evidence for it, Rog. But no, I think for Szczesko, there will be so much pressure on him. He might be under such strain to score that just seeing him get one felt like a relief for all concerned.

46:40Rog Bennett:Yeah, I mean, almost 45 minutes ensued for United to try and prove themselves to themselves. I mean, honestly, they look like they lacked pretty well all the rudimentary skills, have any cohesive tracking, making runs, you know, feeling motivated. Midfield lacked complete control. Cunha,$84 million, contributing so little. I will say, listening to the Manchester United fans singing their old Fergie chant, attack, attack, attack, with this team. It's like watching someone play the Baywatch theme over footage of David Hasselhoff dropping that cheeseburger on the floor and just drunkenly fumbling after it.

47:14Rog Bennett:It is hard. The juxtaposition makes my heartache. I've intrigued sloppy football, sloppy as hell from both sides. This was an eyesore. United did create the chance they needed to get back into it. Nathan Collins yanked back and Bumo, penalty given. VAR checked everything. Offside, dogso. Took forever. Brentford then threw on subs to ice the kicker. God bless. Bruno, that I know, in the old days, used to be ice from the spot, but he missed it full on a month ago. Ea, he trotted in. Keller has stayed big until the shot came in pretty limply. Dove left, palmed it away. Bruno Roar. Gent was once one of the most steely penalty takers in the game.

47:55Rog Bennett:I think 62 penalties scored, eight missed. You know, a quarter of those eight have been in the last month in London alone. Steve Thorne in our Discord wrote, we were told it's the referee's fault for bumping Bruno when he missed two weeks ago at Fullon. What then was this, Rob?

48:11Rory Smith:Well, partly it might have been a little bit of psychological warfare. Brentford, as you say, kind of taking that extra time to make sure that Bruno really felt the pressure build up. But to be honest, it was just quite a bad penalty, whatever the circumstances. If he'd gone for extra power because of the delay, because of the nerves that had set in or whatever, and put it too high or cracked it off the bar, then maybe he could understand. This was just a bad penalty and it kind of summed up Manchester United's afternoon.

48:39Rog Bennett:It did indeed. By the way, if United had scored there, he would have favoured them to win instead. Slop continued until Matthias Jensen finished deliriously in the 95th minute. It was like watching a nurse lance a really septic boil. Brentford beat Manchester United back-to-back for the first time since 1937. Ruben Amarim continues to break records, but not in a good way. Third time in four seasons, United have been beaten at the bus stop in Hounslow, which is astonishing. Brentford fans will sleep all week hearing the delicious sounds of their Mbumo chant, Brian, Brian, what's the score? So let's talk about it.

49:14Rog Bennett:And I hate that we have to do this raw, but we are now officially in manager-sacking season. Graham Potter had a 33 % win percentage at West Ham. Gone. Amorim somehow at 27 % despite all that cash burned. He looks like the walking dead. He really does on that side. I spent much of the second half in his signature agonised recovery position. Three defeats from six league games now this season. Eric Ten Hag, let me remind you, fired after four losses in, was it nine games last October? His record, Amarim 17 losses in 33 Premier League games. These are astonishing. 56 goals conceded. He's got Sunderland at home, Liverpool the way to come.

49:56Rog Bennett:It feels to me that only kind of like stasis, inertia, and the fact that the board has just backed him so heavily over the summer is keeping him in the job. Is it the desire not to fire yet another manager that's keeping him over? Or how many games do you give him?

50:10Rory Smith:Well, it has to be at least partly that, doesn't it? that Ineos, Jim Ratcliffe, the minority owners who control Manchester United, they've put so many of their eggs into Ruben Amarim's basket that they cannot countenance the idea of moving away from him. The players they signed in the summer, I don't think it's that relevant because I'm not sure that any of them are that well suited to Ruben Amarim's system, to be perfectly honest. I think Mbumo and Cunha and Cesco are all really good footballers, but I don't think they're dependent dependent on a 3-4-1-2 to thrive. I think they could all play in lots of different formations.

50:46Rory Smith:Maybe Ruben Amorim should try it at some point. I don't know. But the main thing to me is that what's the point of Manchester United sacking Ruben Amorim? There is no point because all that would happen is they would get somebody else in, Oliver Glasner, or Maurizio Pochettino, and he would be in exactly the same position. A squad that is not suited to the way that he plays. a club that doesn't have the patience to see that sort of rebuild through because the expectations are so high. So they'd get a year, they'd get 18 months, and then it would all come round again. So in a way, as dreadful as Amarim's performances have been, as awful as results are, and given that there's part of me that thinks he's trying to get sacked.

51:29Rory Smith:Yes, he's quite equipped. He is quite equipped. Who does not want to be that? Ruben Amarim, who I really like. Like, everyone, part of the problem, actually, is that everyone seems to really like Ruben Amorim, that he comes across very well. He seems like an amicable, personable, really bright guy. It's slightly upsetting.

51:46Rog Bennett:Soon kick that out of you.

51:48Rory Smith:He's younger than me, which I find very upsetting, Rog. But the number of times he seems to have kind of challenged United's hierarchy to get rid of him, they really should have picked up that hint. And part of me thinks, yeah, like, they don't want to sack him because they know there is no point going through all this again.

52:03Rog Bennett:Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of reports crackling out about how the players have tuned Amarim out. Normally, I think that's the players' agents. I've got a feeling it's Amarim's people who are doing that briefing. I mean, they do just seem so miserable. I say I do think he's quite quit in every regard. Next up, Sunderland at home for United. By the way, I did mention our Discord, the Men in Blazers Discord channel. Come and join us for the Champions League conversation this midweek. I did. There were thousands of comments over the past weekend. the game. I'm in there along with you reacting to the action the wonder.

52:37Rog Bennett:I do love it so much. Feels like Twitter back before the bots stole that from us. So come and be with us. The link is in the chat. It's football as it's meant to be. Football with friends and talking about friends. Manchester City 5. Oh Burnley 1. 9th place Manchester City coming in. A lot of talk about they had only 7 points in their first 5 games and a lot of people pointing out that the only team that has had this few points at this stage of the season gone on to win the title was 92-93 United in the Premier League's inaugural season but City are entering this kind stretch of games against I think you call them the mid-major starting with newly promoted Scotty Park as Burnley team against who they'd won all previous 13 games by a combined score of 46-2 and I think those two were some kind of JJ Watt safety.

53:24Rog Bennett:Etihad welcome back City speed merchant Karl Walker to the sight of so many of his former glories. Really lovely to see an ovation from the home fans who gave him a much kinder reception than Jeremy Doku did. Just ran at Walker on repeat total carnage, starting in the 12th minute drove at the back peddling Kyle. Didn't exactly beat him but as the Belgian skipped past the ball bobbled around, bounced in the ring of fire that led to French defender Maxime Esteve putting it into his own net. 1-0 City and as the Etihad serenaded Burnley with a beautiful chance of you going down with United and we've got to credit Burnley Scotty Parker sets him up to batten down the hatches beat on the break 38th minute, it did work ball broke to Jadon Anthony smashing one in off Ruben Diaz God bless and for all the talk about Haaland having scored 67 % of City's goals coming into this game this meant that Anthony had been involved with five of Burnley's six strikes He scored four, assisted in one.

54:29Rog Bennett:Incredible season. Came through the Arsenal Youth Academy, didn't everybody? Alongside Emile Smith-Rowe and I think Rhys Nelson. Roar, is Jadon Anthony the best player no one's talking about right now?

54:41Rory Smith:He seems like the breakout star of this Burnley team, absolutely. Whether he can sustain it is a different matter, but he's given them something. He's given them a, it sounds really cheesy, but like something to believe in. There's a player there who's storing goals, who's enjoying it in the Premier League, who is standing out. And for a team like Burnley in their situation, you need something like that to kind of haul you through. So as long as he maintains this form, all right, maybe not against Manchester City, but if he can maintain this form against some of the lesser lights of the Premier League, they stand the chance.

55:10Rog Bennett:God, Jadon Anthony, it's almost like you put, ask for a footballer's name from a simulator. It's just like jamming, jamming like 97 % of footballers are called either Jadon or Anthony. If you remember both together, you get a star in the making. Second half of the game, reverted to factory setting. City pretty well opened a can of whoop-ass. Haaland feasted, actually competing with Estev, who scored another goal, braced for him, another own goal, confirmation own goal even, has gone across the City from United to the other side of Manchester. But Haaland would not be outdone, scored twice in stoppage time, brought his telly to eight on the season, two, just six games, 93 scored in 103 Premier League matches.

55:50Rog Bennett:Just astonishing. Brentford, Everton, Villa, Bournemouth ahead for City. before that epic rumble against Liverpool on November the 9th. Harlan humming, Doku, form of his life. Raw, rumours of City's title chase demise, greatly, greatly exaggerated.

56:07Rory Smith:Yeah, I've had a lot of sense for the last couple of weeks that City might be building to something. I don't think they're perfect, and I think they'll continue to drop points. But they don't need to be perfect, because the Premier League isn't like it was five years ago. You don't have to get 100 points. You don't have to get 99 points. You can win the lead with 85. and I think City at the moment look capable of getting to that sort of level.

56:28Rog Bennett:Monaco away in the Champions League. Pep travelling to the house that Flo Balogun built. I can't wait to watch that. I'm talking about the Champions League. We'll talk about this in one moment. Chelsea 1. What? Brighton 3. A road well-travelled the pathway between Brighton and Chelsea. Been walked by 15 players and coaching staff in the past couple of years. This was really Premier League football as a real housewives reunion. And it was astonishing. Chelsea had, was it, six former Brighton players in their squad, four in their starting 11, Caicedo, Pedro, Cucurea. Oh, poor old Robert Sanchez.

57:02Rog Bennett:Somehow, still clearly not enough. Chelsea seemed to cruise. Dominant, in control. Caicedo instrumental in the opening goal by Enzo. But early in the second half, Trevor Chalabar sent off for denial of a goal-scoring opportunity. And for the second straight week, Chelsea mistake led to a game-changing 10-man collapse. Brighton, been so blunt until Fabian Herzl, exhumed old man of the seas. Danny Welbeck moved Routa a little deeper. 67th minute, Welbeck, who at 34, he's kind of like the Frank Gore of the Premier League, just an old man who keeps rumbling on, utterly overachieving in remarkable ways.

57:39Rog Bennett:Scored twice to propel a much-needed Brighton comeback. First points away from home this season for them. But Raw, Chelsea, worrying signs. Now conceded, is it 11 goals in the last five games? All comps, Enzo Morescu. We talked about him in depth last week, his job security. That joy of Club World Cup victory long turned to ashes in his mouth. It's almost as if it's been airbrushed out of the happiness and memory banks he should have earned through the win. He said after the game, the message inside the dressing room is clear. Against any team in the Premier League, you can't continue to give away presents.

58:13Rog Bennett:But his team, winless in September. and it's kind of like self-constructed by the hand that he's been given. If you only play with young players and that's the squad that's been assembled, you're kind of going to get these headless decisions on a regular basis. You know, you think of veteran leadership, you don't see a lot there.

58:29Rory Smith:Yeah, it's the flaw in the model, I think. If you look at most successful teams over the course of history, they have a blend of exciting young talent and to be honest, a couple of maybe mid-career good solid pros and then some veteran leaders who can guide everybody through. That is the mix that most teams want. And Chelsea have decided they don't want any of that. They just want superstar teenagers. And it means that there are some incredibly exciting moments. But at the same time, when things get tough, as they tend to do in the Premier League, you might find that you suffer a little bit. I've got to admit, Old Trafford last week, Rog, in the rain when United beat Chelsea all that time ago, it did feel a little bit like if pressure is like a baton, it was being handed from Amorim to Moresco.

59:16Rory Smith:It felt as Moresco kind of marched off the pitch. He thought, okay, this is going to be quite a rough winter for Enzo. This isn't a great sign. But the good news, Rog, is that they've got Arna Slott's frauds coming up next.

59:27Rog Bennett:Arna Slott's frauds. I've got to get that on the t-shirt. And by the way, well done Champions League script writing. It's exactly what Moresco wants next. Who do they have midweek? New Benfica manager Jose Mourinho rolling into Chelsea on Tuesday. Oh my God, it'll be like the dark night returns. And talking about darkness and light, Tottenham won. Wolves won. Sad Wolves. Pointless and pointless. Five league games, no wins. Dragging their carcass to Tottenham. A Tottenham who stats geeks knew were oddly winless in the last five games against Wolves. Something had to give. And honestly, Spurs looked like they were going to be triumphant.

1:00:08Rog Bennett:They dominated the game, did not score. conceded to corner slot bundled in by Santiago Bueno. And I'm not a medical authority, so far be it for me to diagnose a case of Dr. Tottenham. But that's what it felt like. Probably, I wrote in my notes, could be Arsenal's best day of the year. Spurs toiled in that second half, had very little guile, very little creative quality, were very frustrated, no shots on target in the second half until your 94th minute. Atel Kross batted back down Paulinia. the defensive midfielder who had opened the screen for Spurs midweek in the League Cup. It's contagious because here he just instinctually opened up his body, caressed the ball home on the half folly with a touch of a tender lover.

1:00:52Rog Bennett:Jen ripped his shirt off, nipples out. Just a relief of avoiding humiliation, getting to and out of the game. Second consecutive Premier League draw for Tottenham via a rescue mission. And here I am, old enough to remember last week when the Celebration Police were out to mock Arsenal for celebrating a draw against Manchester City in remarkable ways. I will say a lot of those were Tottenham fans, but the celebration police were notably quieter this week after this one. I did appreciate this comment from GFOP Atam Talisman on our Instagram. He said everyone's going to make fun of Tottenham celebrating a late equaliser against a team at the bottom, but you don't understand what it means to be a Tottenham fan.

1:01:31Rog Bennett:We're celebrating the fact we're actually able to do what we couldn't do last year, which is to see out games, to take a point from a game, even if we weren't at our best, that's what is being celebrated. And Ro, I do love this. And I genuinely wonder, in our age of social media, when the pressure heaped on these players is a thousand times worse than it ever was in the early 2000s when most of our current crop of pundits played. I guess I'm saying, is it time that we just give up on judging celebrations? Is it time we defund the celebration police? Defund the celebration police?

1:02:03Rory Smith:Yes.

1:02:03Rog Bennett:Just let people have joy, man. I don't understand it.

1:02:07Rory Smith:I'm not even sure it's as complex or subtle as the Discord comment makes it sound. João Pellini has scored a 94th minute goal. That's something to celebrate. If it gets you a point instead of losing a game, you celebrate. I don't see what the problem with it is. I do think there are times when it feels like teams can celebrate a bit too much. And you think actually there's a point where the players, not the fans, the players need to kind of rein it in just slightly because otherwise it looks like you're kind of crowing or you're kind of presenting it as being more meaningful than it might be. But there is absolutely no reason not to celebrate a 94th-minute winner.

1:02:45Rory Smith:And, Rog, just to touch on what we talked about at the start, look at the players Spurs brought on. Matisse Tell, Wilson Odebeer, 50 million twids worth of Brennan Johnson, Pedro Porro, Pat Matassar. These are high-quality players coming off the bench. You're changing half your team in the last half an hour of a game

1:03:03Rog Bennett:that's why you're getting late goals yes starters that are finishers finishers are the starters i don't even know who we are anymore by the way about the celebration place who's got to the world is like in such chaos and human darkness i don't even understand how it's got effort to be

1:03:16Rory Smith:in the celebration but it's it's because everyone's british now roge that's what's happened the world's now british greatest cultural export is not allowing people to enjoy things that is what we do we've made everybody british so as soon as anyone has fun sit down lots of other people say, well, you shouldn't be doing that, which is the most British thing imaginable. It's a key part of the Premier League supporting experience. Getting upset that your rivals are having a nice time.

1:03:40Rog Bennett:I do think if people were outraged by many things that are worthy of being outraged about, as opposed to, like, you know, Tottenham celebrations, I think it'd just be a very, very difficult...

1:03:50Rory Smith:Oh, yeah, but, like, me and you don't need to be getting involved in the kind of, let's keep things in perspective business, Rog, because that's not in either of our interests, is it? Yes, obviously, people should talk less about whether Tottenham should celebrate, like the precise level to which Spurs should celebrate a goal in the grand scheme of things is not important.

1:04:11Rog Bennett:We need a vibe table. We need a vibe table and we need it now. Aston Villa 3, full and one. Winless Aston Villa going into this. Taking the season step-by-step. Scored their first big boy goal of the season last week. They came from behind to win. After Emi Buendia came on, start the second half, catalyzed two goals deliciously. assisted one, scored one within two minutes of each other. Villa scored three times off just four shots on target and just as significantly after Emery had called his players lazy last week, ended three goal droughts. McGuinness scored here for the first time in two years, was it?

1:04:51Rog Bennett:Buendia for two and a half. Watkins, most significant goal drought in seven years, snapped. Fulham, six losses to Villa in a row, so at least they're consistent. much-needed first Villa League winner of the season out of the bottom three. I want to quickly touch upon what's happened to Villa over the last 10 days behind the scenes, because the front office has been very King's Landing-y. A lot of intrigue. It's why we watch front office news. Amidst this free-fall start to the season, which has been astonishing to witness, Villa's vaunted, quite enigmatic president of football operations, Monchi, suddenly left.

1:05:26Rog Bennett:And we know him as Unai Emery's good friend, sidekick, a transfer genius, left. replaced by Robert Alabe, man who brought and sold Alexander Izak and Raul Sochadad also. I think signed Martin Odegaard on loan, oversaw Martin Zubemendi's career development. But that Monsi move was such a sharp rule, kind of came out of nowhere. After Villers just debacle of a transfer window, they botched the Emi Martinez farewell. Goalkeeper said goodbye to the fans. Dude's still there. Then had to sell fan favour and academy product Jacob Ramsey to kind of fend off profit and sustainably rules challenges. almost gambled and failed.

1:06:02Rog Bennett:We talked about this last week to repeat their Champions League qualification. They missed out on goal difference. Quick blast rule. What do Villa Park's Kremlinologists say about Monchi's exit and the impact of a front office on a team's culture on the field?

1:06:17Rory Smith:Yeah, I think Monchi leaving is a bit of a blow. He was really fated when he was appointed. He's quite famous. We touched on this actually in the Correspondent Newsletter. He's quite famous for the work he did at Sevilla. He is one of maybe the first celebrity sporting director, I think. That's probably fair to say. He hadn't been able to replicate that at all at Villa. And I think what it indicates is probably for all that Villa's public position is that the Premier League's financial rules are entirely to blame for everything that goes wrong. You know, if Villa concede from a corner, it's PSR.

1:06:46Rory Smith:If Villa draw a game, it's PSR. Villa get knocked out in the Carabao Cup, PSR. I think it's a recognition that at least part of the issue, and Villa fans get quite angry if you say this, At least part of the issue is that the money they have been able to spend, they've not spent very well. That's why Villa have been kind of stalled in their progress. Monchi going, I think, is a recognition that he maybe wasn't working his magic at Aston Villa. Alabe doesn't have his reputation, but the work he's done at Sociedad is really solid. He clearly knows how to oversee the growth of a club. He will be a slightly more kind of low-profile presence, I think.

1:07:23Rory Smith:but the other thing it illustrates is Emery's power because it's another person that Unai Emery knows another Basque, can't have too many Basques these days Rog there's a book out this week by the journalist Guillain Ballardier called Rise of the Villains about Emery's time in Birmingham and it's fascinating in lots of ways but particularly about the way in which Aston Villa have basically handed the keys to the kingdom to Unai Emery the club have basically decided at like an ownership level either we succeed with Unai Emery or we just don't, everything is built for him Alabe's appointment I think cements that yet further

1:07:55Rog Bennett:God bless what a time to bring out a book called Rise of It's not a great publication

1:08:02Rory Smith:day.

1:08:02Rog Bennett:It's like the wedding videographer finally cutting your wedding video just after you got divorced but God speed. Leeds 2 Bournemouth 2. Leeds learning the hard way that you've got to close your games out and it's costing them points. Let Fulham score was at the 94th minute two weeks ago I'm here they'd worked so hard to They come from behind. Short, long staff, excellent. Wilted in the 93rd minute. Substitute Ellie Krupe striking to silence. Bear pit Ellen Road, who'd taken proactive delight through the game to boo poor Tyler Adams. Knowing him would have relished the chance to be the heel. Leveled every player he could to more boo.

1:08:38Rog Bennett:I think it was booernsing. I think you call it raw. You were there to witness the heartbreak for Leeds fans. Where are you? Very quickly. Are your cup half full on Leeds? Any points good? What are your cup filled with piss? Three points dropped over the last three games. It's really a leading question for you. So we can enter the segment of the podcast we like to call Rory Smith. Explains Yorkshire mentality to the outside world.

1:09:01Rory Smith:Is my cup half full or half empty of boiling piss? My cup is half full this week. I think Bournemouth are excellent. Bournemouth are also, I think, in the top four at the moment. They are probably one of the best run teams in the Premier League. They may well have the best coach in the Premier League. they're excellent to watch they've they've kind of dealt with the sale of their entire defense incredibly well um I think getting a point against Bournemouth for a team that are newly promoted is probably quite a big achievement as much as kind of the historic standings of the teams make that difficult to kind of get your head around as someone who's in their 40s um but leads were unlucky and I think that's the bit that Daniel Farker and the players in particular will take from it Dominic Calvert-Lewin DCL Rog played really well should have scored within the first nine seconds but they look like they carried a threat they they created chances against Bournemouth they they look like they could match them and because it's Bournemouth that's a good thing because Bournemouth are excellent so I think it's not it's obviously frustrating to concede an equaliser in the 93rd minute but it's not a bad point at all.

1:10:05Rog Bennett:Very funny moment on that first Bournemouth goal I wanted to ask you about Semenyo drove a free kick low under a jumping wall Brendan Aronson was actually positioned as the draft excluder under it, and it rolled agonisingly past his little feet, I think. And I read one newspaper report that said, there will be questions asked of Brendan Aronson's positioning. Dude was like lying on his tummy with his back to the ball. Well, is it his fault? I mean, dude is just five foot seven. Why are you putting him there? Or is that old football truth always? When in doubt, blame the American, right?

1:10:38Rory Smith:Yeah, I mean, it's Aronson's fault for not being tall enough.

1:10:42Rog Bennett:Yes.

1:10:43Rory Smith:Is it Daniel Farker's fault for allowing him to be the draft excluder? Should he have nominated someone longer?

1:10:48Rog Bennett:Yeah, exactly. That's my point, exactly. And by the way, it's not too late if you're watching, Brendan. Take some of those messy steroids, whatever he took when he was a teen at Barcelona, and you two, by the time you're about 28, could grow into like Nick Valtemar the size.

1:11:03Rory Smith:Do you think that's his personal goal, to be the size of Nick Valtemar? Do you think he looks at Nick Valtemar and thinks, I'd like to be 6 '6", how can I be 6 '6"?

1:11:11Rog Bennett:Most of us dream of being a professional footballer. Brendan Aronson has achieved that goal. Now his goal is renewed. It's to be Volta Mar-desized.

1:11:19Rory Smith:I've already achieved my dream of being a professional footballer. Now I need to achieve my other dream of being a tall professional footballer.

1:11:26Rog Bennett:We're all just chasing rainbows. Talking about chasing rainbows. Oh, Big Ange Poster Coglu. Poster Coglu-ites lament. Nottingham Forest 0, Sunderland 1. What a morality tale Forrest are turning into. Still seeking their first win under Big Ange, who specialises in taking leads and letting them slip, but he saw he was seeing progress. It's so hard to do what he's trying to do, take his buccaneering football style and weld it onto Nuno's reactive style with no pre-season. Man has had four road games. This was his first game back at home after four away, and the Forrest faithful were blessed by being able to pay witness to, well, Sunderland.

1:12:07Rog Bennett:scoring the first first half goal this season Alder Tay off a set piece finally choreographed to get him in behind and stooped to conquer second half Forrest battered Sunderland the whole game really played in and around the Sunderland box Postacoglio post game rued his team's quote lack of ruthlessness there was a moment near the end Chris Wood had a close range header that he normally would bury but got his body shape all wrong the cameras cut to a completely anguished manager who was just like New Zealand violence on an Australian human being. Two men bonded in agony. Roar, Ange struggling.

1:12:42Rog Bennett:His team looking more and more like Maranakis, never read the fable about the goose, the lead, the golden egg man. It's not been a good start for Ange and I think there's

1:12:49Rory Smith:a little bit of fear settling in at the city ground to be honest that whatever magic Nuno had managed to kind of weave over that team and that club has just evaporated and they look now like they're having to kind of scrap and claw for every single point that they can get. And given the quality at Andrew's disposal, that's insane. You look through that team and they are really good. As I said at the start, they are throwing on 40, 50, 60 million pounds worth of talent off the bench. They should be up at the, you know, maybe not the top of the table, but certainly sort of 6th, 7th, 8th, that's what they're built for.

1:13:27Rory Smith:And the problem that Poster Coddle has got is that Marinakis is not a man who's got a lot of patience. So if he doesn't turn it around fast, it may well grow quite sour.

1:13:37Rog Bennett:Fascinating video that Forrest chose to put out of Maranac is high-fiving each of his players as they return to the locker room after that 1-0 loss at home to Sunderland. I mean, clearly, they thought they were putting out a message saying, don't worry, still faith in this, everything from the man that matters. But my God, Sunderland's 11 points though, most for a promoted side after six games since 2013 West Ham. Few pundits predicted this, so much of it down to the coach Reggie Labrie a true philosopher an academic a tactical brain and really in the style of Arsene Wenger they've spent money too I think over 200 million dollars and crucially spent it on the back line they are fifth right now and it's magnificent ahead of Chelsea ahead of Man City honestly in a way almost as if you turn the table upside down it is utterly remarkable those fans have suffered struggled been laughed at been memed they deserve this in every regard it's almost impossible right now very quickly, Roar.

1:14:36Rog Bennett:Who's going to get relegated? We had a letter just saying, will a big team from Mark Goussak, a GFOP, will a big team go down this season? If I have to put a finger pointed in your direction and say, name the three teams that are going right now, will one of the established teams potentially go down this season? Liverpool, yeah.

1:14:54Rory Smith:The, the, no, no, I don't think so. I think, obviously, United are the most vulnerable, but I don't think they're going to get relegated, I don't think that's realistic. I'd be more worried about someone like West Ham, Wolves, who count as establishing the Premier League these days. Even Brentford, as I say, it's so evenly matched. And we think about that from the point of view of the big teams dropping points. But it means as well that those teams who are comfortable mid-table, if you hit a bad run, if you have a run of fixtures that are really unkind, if you don't do very well, then you might have a problem.

1:15:30Rory Smith:So I think, I mean, I don't think there's any teams in blue that we get in relegated, Rog, just so you know. Who will go down, Rob? Who will go down? I would say Burnley, which I know you don't want me to say. There's a JJ Watt. Burnley.

1:15:42Rog Bennett:Only because he scares me.

1:15:43Rory Smith:Wolves.

1:15:47Rory Smith:Yes, I did. West Ham.

1:15:48Rog Bennett:Yeah, I have Wolves, a team that rhyme with Burnley and Nottingham Forest as my three. There you go. You heard it here. And tonight we have one of the teams in blue that may or may not go down. Everton facing West Ham. Monday Night Football under the lights at the big Dickinson energy. First time ever, David Moyes hosts the teetering club he was dispensed with after delivering the first trophy to West Ham in 43 years. Be careful what you wish for, people. Graham Potter fired over the weekend. Enter old friend Nuno. West Ham lingering 19th in the Premier League. Hammers have opted to bring in all three names as the success.

1:16:29Rog Bennett:One Forest fan said about seeing Nuno, it's like seeing your partner leave you and get married again a bit too quickly. But Nuno will be in his element. West Ham are a hot, bloody mess. Nuno's a pragmatic problem-solving manager in a way. I will say many of his West Ham predecessors like Lopetegui and also Potter just never were. Potter lasted a quite dire nine months, too proactive footballingly for West Ham, which really is, you have to make sense of a swap. What do you make of it quickly, Roar? How long till we see Nuno's face, meme faced onto, photoshopped onto Graham Potter's head?

1:17:05Rory Smith:But the problem that West Ham have got is that Nuno is exactly what the fans don't want. And this is the issue, they're trapped in this kind of existential crisis, West Ham, because the fans want adventurous, expansive, interesting football because they're an established Premier League team and that's what all the other established Premier League teams are doing. It's what Crystal Palace are doing. It's what Fulham are doing. It's what Everton are doing. You know, there's a drive to be a bit better to watch. Don't look at me like that, Rog. Come on.

1:17:30Rog Bennett:I'm just dreading this game.

1:17:32Rory Smith:Whereas West Ham, they tried to do that with Lopetegui, then worked out very quickly that that's not the football Lopetegui plays. So they sat him and then did it with Potter. But then that doesn't work because Potter needs plenty of time to get his methods across and he never had it at West Ham. Nuno is Nuno. He is pragmatic, he's defensive, he will make them extremely well organised, they'll be much more difficult to beat. I think they might lack the attacking talent to win games, or win many games, and they're in a league where Sunderland have spent a lot of money, Leeds have spent a lot of money, there are relegation slots available.

1:18:04Rory Smith:But even if Nuno keeps them up, the problem will recur in the next 12 to 18 months, because the fans will say, well look, this is boring, we don't want to watch this, we want to watch something that's more interesting, that's more engaging. and they'll drift back into this kind of perma crisis that West Ham exists in. And I don't think the ownership, the front office, I don't think they know how to build the team that the fans want.

1:18:26Rog Bennett:God, you know, I agree with everything you're saying. And at the same time, I think of this afternoon's game and I'm filled with dread. I wrote in the newsletter over the weekend that like, this is where we become the dream charity that opponents need and yearn for. And I am so braced for West Ham to just suddenly start to defend corners with vigour for the first time cut us apart on the counter. This game has West Ham 2-0. Bowen scoring twice against us. It is known. Very quick letter from Mark Edsel. A Yinzer. Roar, do the honours. It's a controversial one, this one, Rog. I know. I loved it.

1:19:01Rory Smith:Gentlemen, I come to you for clarity in a crisis of faith, which is our role. That's what we're here for.

1:19:06Rog Bennett:We're not really football analysts. Maybe that's a hobby.

1:19:11Rory Smith:We're really theologians. Yeah, we're the Talmudic scholars of postacoddlerism.

1:19:15Rog Bennett:I think of myself as a caroate, but go on.

1:19:18Rory Smith:Don't know what that is. I'm thinking of committing the only sin greater than supporting two clubs. I might switch. I'm a Pittsburgh sports fan in my marrow, grandson of a steel worker. Winning mattered, but never as much as what really matters. Put in a good shift, have each other's back, and stand on principle. In the mid-first decade of the 20th century, he's actually written an American word that I can't say, Rog. It doesn't work. What's that? Is that like kudos to me? I think he's pronounced oughts. I think it's pronounced do you say the mid-aughts is that what America is saying? you don't say that because what?

1:19:49Rory Smith:because it's a ridiculous word

1:19:51Rog Bennett:it's a it makes you feel awkward like when someone says the word kudos it like goes through me I don't know why we just assume

1:19:58Rory Smith:that when you put mid-2000s whoever's reading it is intelligent enough to work out that you don't mean the century you mean the decade because we haven't reached the midpoint of the century yet we assume in Britain that everyone is capable of making that calculation

1:20:13Rog Bennett:And by 2050, you aim to be dead anyway.

1:20:16Rory Smith:It's not going to be my problem in 2050. Not your problem? Not my problem? No, not my issue. Go on. Do you think they called the first decade of the 20th century the 19 aughts? You know what? I'd love to know that. I'd only just started podcasting back then, so I don't remember. But go on. In the mid aughts, the sorting hat, I've said it now. The sorting hat told me to cast my lot in with Liverpool. I recognised the city. I saw my people in its faces and stories. Any club can lift a trophy, but building a collective identity that stands for something bigger is a different project. Watching those Stevie-led teams and the Anfield faithful from afar, it was palpable how much they were never simply playing for three points, but always for the 97.

1:20:53Rory Smith:So I chose them, and thus my Premier League identity. When they kissed the badge, it's my badge. The last decade has been heady stuff. We've been blessed with innumerable moments of transcendent beauty. We've hauled a heap of silverware. We've seen legends on the pitch and the sideline, born in our own time. Still, I'm left wanting. Over that same decade, thanks NBC, I've spent more and more time watching non-Liverpool matches as a neutral. Their clubs are more like us than not, each full of fans and players built from the good stuff, passion, values, grit, integrity and histories. Maybe it's the cash splash of the transfer window.

1:21:26Rory Smith:Maybe it's our role in the Super League. Maybe I've been watching too much Andor. But I'm worried I've cast my lot with a tribe that's lost its way. I'll continue singing the ballad of Robbo's 70-plus yard lung-busting press. I'll tell bedtime stories of a blind wizard named Bobby who tundered magic with his tippy-toes and his back heels. I don't think Firmino was blind. I've got to admit, I don't think that's true. Hillsborough will forever be sacred. But our current times have me yearning for something deeper that binds us, something scrappier, something closer to the source, something truer.

1:21:57Rory Smith:And do you know what? I empathise with this point. It's getting harder and harder to feel the tug of the anchor on a ship this big. I've got a club in mind, a long-time side piece, but I'd love to hear you'd recommend consider jumping ship for. More importantly, is switching allegiances even allowed? Even as an American without hereditary obligations, does fandom even matter anymore in globalised soccer? Thanks for your time. A traitor in the making, Mark Edsel.

1:22:23Rog Bennett:Roar, Mark Edsel, that is a complicated one emotionally. Really, the floor is yours. Yeah, no, you can't do it. It's not allowed.

1:22:32Rory Smith:Is that it? Yeah, there's just no absolute... I mean, what I would say is you are allowed to support more than one team, but they have to be in different countries. That's what I think the rule is. So if you're struggling, as I am a little bit, with Liverpool's kind of new identity as the billionaire boys, which I'm not a fan of, don't like all these expensive signings, secretly quite glad that at least one of them appears to be rubbish, I think the best thing for you to do is to look across the kind of the rich tapestry of global football and find some other teams to support. And at the risk of asking you to copy my example and also follow the colour of my jumper, can I suggest Heart of Midlothian in Scotland, who have always been my Scottish club, but are embarking on what may be the most noble quest of all sports teams, which is to try and win the Scottish title without being from Glasgow.

1:23:28Rory Smith:They are currently top. They will not do it, but they do have Brighton's Tony Bloom, the man who's kind of masterminded Brighton's rise, he is kind of connected to the club now. I don't know if he owns a share or owns a portion or whether he's just working with them. I thought they were owned by the guy in succession. Logan Roy, no, that was a fictional television show. Was that Hibbs? That wasn't a documentary, Rog. And it might also, I think that might have been Hibbs. Also a great club. I would say if you're struggling with what Liverpool have become, look for another team to support in addition.

1:24:02Rory Smith:but no, you cannot swap. Oh, God bless.

1:24:05Rog Bennett:My Scottish club are Dumbarton because we used to have a cleaning lady called Mrs. Barton who I loved like crazy and I think about her every single week although she's long dead whenever I find out their scores. It is fascinating. I will say we do an annual study of American fans, how they're similar to English fan base and very different, profoundly different. We're doing the latest one right now and the link to take the survey is in the show notes. Please take a minute to fill it in because the more we understand, the better we can serve your needs. But one of the most important learnings to last year's report is that the fans have an enormous emotional bandwidth.

1:24:41Rog Bennett:Like American fans support like three or four teams, the Bulls, the White Sox, the Bears. American fans do support, I think somewhere like 40 % of them support four teams already. But when a team stops speaking to them, because they don't have that geographical connect, because they don't have multi-generational connect, they just kind of like start to, yeah, I'm interested in other clubs. You know, if Chelsea, when Chelsea changed their DNA, a lot of American fans are like, hmm, I'm kind of interested in Bournemouth now. You know, or when Manchester United just slid below the waterline, wow, Crystal Palace surging.

1:25:15Rog Bennett:I'd rather use my time to watch them. That's how it works. English fans will find this all abhorrent. You never change your team. But it's fascinating here. Fandom in the modern world, the global world, is more fluid. All the Premier League teams know They don't just have to win over the fan base, but keep winning them over. Keep them there. I grew up in a place like you, Roar, where you supported your team in light and in lots of darkness. So what you're articulating is very, very painful. But God bless. The answer is only you can answer the question, Mark. And also, welcome to Everton. Mark, send us your postal.

1:25:52Rog Bennett:We'll send you a coveted MIB patch. Keep sending your letters from me and Raw with your best questions, your best stories to meninblazers at gmail.com. That's it for today. I'm off to Seattle this week for a sold-out show in that magical Emerald City. I can't wait to meet you, GFOPs. And thank you for all your restaurant and bookshop, indie bookshop recommendations. I appreciate them all. More than I can say, huge thanks to you, Raw, your Crown Prince of Harrogate.

1:26:18Rory Smith:Is the Emerald City not the thing in Oz?

1:26:20Rog Bennett:I mean, it's better than that, is the honest truth. but yes I am the lion if you wanted to ask me about which character am I which is I think we were heading this is Rog sending you big big love let's not take a second of watching football together for granted celebration please be gone and courage