Emergency Pod: Manchester City Found Guilty | Men in Blazers 09/25/26

0:00The one question I get most after all that football memory making we experienced across America this summer is, how do I keep the magic going? I'd start by saying, articulate what you love the most and then build on it. First step, find the team that will most probably break your heart. And then add all the supporting necessities to build your weekend tradition. The key to so many of mine, it's Walmart. The place that has it all, the snacks, the coffee, the pies. You can also get the TV at Walmart, the hoodie to wear on your couch. Get the couch if you need it and wait, it gets better. Because their express delivery can get it right to your door so you're all set for kickoff.

0:40Whatever your matchday needs are, you can find them at walmart.com slash soccer. Delivery timing varies by order size, traffic, weather and demand. Subject to availability, fees and terms apply. You're listening to the Men in Blazers Media Network, Suboptimal Radio.

1:02What a seismic day in world football history. Manchester City have been found guilty on all but one of the 115 charges relating to breaches of the Premier League's financial regulations. Sanctions have not yet been decided. Manchester City are expected to appeal. They're not Lance Armstrong just yet. Charged back in 2023 after a four-year investigation, Rory Smith, I was beginning to think this day would never happen. In simple terms, explain what exactly happened this afternoon.

1:33Roger Bennett:So what happened was we got to the end, sort of, of the first phase, sort of, of the Premier League's three and a half year investigation into these allegations, these charges of Manchester City not adhering to the Leeds financial rules and refusing to cooperate with an investigation into them. The actual number of charges, Rog, is slightly confusing. It's become known as 115, but I think, depending on how you count it, it might be 130 or it might be 108. It's very hard to tell. But they have, as The Athletic reported, they broke the story. They have been found guilty on all but one of them. We don't know which one is the one they weren't found guilty of.

2:13Roger Bennett:We don't know how much of a consolation that is, a consolation goal for Manchester City. But it seems like the Premier League, after all that time and after countless kind of delays, I think we're not far off it being the longest civil case in English legal history. They have got the verdict that I guess would validate the investigation in the first place. However many charges there are, as I understand it, and this is two recovering lawyers, essentially three infractions. They're all bucketed. There's an accusation of not complying with the Premier League investigation into the club's finances.

2:46Not good. We'll talk about that in a minute. Second, disguising money from the owners. Essentially, sponsorship income from Abu Dhabi companies pumped into the club, which helped reduce the losses, allowed them to spend more under the old rules of financial fair play. And then the third accusation is that individuals were being paid off the book, like the Los Angeles Clippers with Kawhi, yeah? Pablo Torre would never be a Manchester City fan. Roar, what's the historical comparison to this moment we're in, or are we in uncharted waters?

3:17Roger Bennett:I think in terms of the nature of the offences, the nature of the charges, we probably are, because for a long time there weren't any financial regulations in football. And to be honest, at least two of those buckets, as you put it, Rog, that then opens the door to accusations of actual kind of non-sporting offences. I don't want to kind of get us into legal trouble. But, you know, if you're paying people off the books and if you're not disclosing income, there is a word for that in financial circles. We don't know whether the city might be exposed to that at a later date. In terms of, I think, the situation that these charges put the Premier League in, there is a parallel historically, but it's not from England, it's from Italy.

3:52Roger Bennett:It's the Calciopoli scandal of 2006-2007 that kind of engulfed Serie A, Italy's top flight, which ended up with Juventus, the biggest club in Italy, and a couple of the other kind of titans of Serie A being dot points, being demoted to the second division, having titles stripped. So we are in charted territory in terms of football history, but for England, I don't think there is a parallel. Good time to remind us, trophy-wise, City have won eight Premier League titles, four FA Cups, seven League Cups, one Champions League, unleashed countless Noel Gallagher non-Posnum videos under the ownership of Sheikh Mansour, whose Abu Dhabi United group acquired the club back in 2008.

4:31I think six of these have come since the charges were brought. City's statement, essentially, nothing to see here. Everyone stay calm. They said the Premier League process remains ongoing with significant elements to be completed, subject to strict confidentiality. It feels like one of those drug commercials where they have to read things really quickly.

4:53Roger Bennett:Side effects include diarrhoea, yeah. Yes, as much as the TFC position remains consistent with the club's statement of February 2023. The club has diligently respected due process for eight years on the basis. The Premier League board and executive... You get the drift. Yeah, you're going to get herpes if you take this drug. they are appealing. They're going to take it all the way to the Supreme Court, baby. You can't handle the truth. What stage in the process are we in now? Well, as I say, I think we're kind of at the end of the first phase, which has taken three and a half years. So the Premier Leeds case has been heard by an independent panel.

5:25Roger Bennett:They have found, we believe, Manchester City guilty on all but one of the X number of charges. There is no sanction. We don't yet know what the independent panel's decision on City's punishment will be. and we don't know what the outcome of an appeal is. We don't actually technically know if City will appeal. We presume that they will appeal because, and I think this is really important, it's kind of a subtle nuance to it that I think is often missed. The nature of the City project, regardless of what the punishment is, even if they get given a kind of relatively slap-on-the-wrist-y fine, the project can't handle the idea that it has been tarnished.

6:02Roger Bennett:So City have to appeal everything, even if the Premier League do some sort of, But, you know, even the Premier League lose their nerve and the sanction is not that serious. City will have to appeal it because their stance has always been this is totally unfounded. We have irrefutable proof that it's wrong. We are completely innocent. They're not really, really in a position there to accept a mild punishment, which means that I suspect as much as it feels like this is the end of something, it might be the beginning of something else. They're going to end up trying this in some court in Florida.

6:32Roy, you mentioned sanctions. not to go all medieval on your asses but the list of potential punishments I believe they're outlined in rule W51 we're all experts now when I woke up this morning I thought hmm W51 I knew it I'll just remind you if you don't know what it is it's in the Premier League's handbook slew of options for the panel to apply from reprimand and fines to point deductions and yes even the nuclear option expulsion from the Premier League.

6:59Roger Bennett:Yeah that's kind of the full suite of it I think the one that's not What included there is the stripping of titles, which is what happened in Italy with Juventus and is still contested. That, I should say, was a different nature of offence for Juventus, but that was the punishment there. And I think, in a sporting sense, to me, that is the most logical sanction, because the offences are largely historic. They affected what happened then, not what is happening now, necessarily. The problem that the Premier League's got is that I think the sanction is only the start of it, though, because you then have to cast your mind back to all the teams that were deprived of something by City if they are found guilty, if their appeal fails, if they are sanctioned.

7:39Roger Bennett:You then get teams who missed out on titles. Maybe more importantly, teams who missed out on the Champions League. They will then all have a claim or the possibility of a claim for damages against City, against the league. That is another kind of legal minefield that's been opened up. Your beloved Everton, Rog, you will know, are currently appealing the fact that they were told to pay Burnley£35 million for staying up when they were in breach of PSR. There's no reason that principle won't apply with City. We know that several Premier League clubs have already, I think in 2024, kind of put in a legal document to say that they might reserve the right to do that if things, you know, turn out a certain way.

8:16Roger Bennett:So it may even be that when there is a sanction to City, that might just be the start of it. The whole thing, and this is a technical legal term, Rog, is a bit of a mess. Yeah, hot, crap, baby, as I think Judge Panic. Judge Judy said. Yeah, one or the other. I can't keep any of them. He's not a judge, old Panic. They thought he was, but he's not. God bless. Roar, I've got to say, one aspect we don't know right now. We are in the, you know, we really do want to get to the end of this as football fans. By the way, for rational reasons, we won't put this behind us. We want to get to the football.

8:51We're all sick when City do something great of having to say, And by the way, those 115 charges still there. We want to get beyond this. The league, for its own coherence, for its own sense of truth, for its own sense of fair competition, wants to put this behind them. But this is going to take time. Some of the charges relate to City failing to cooperate. And that panel, as they're working on their judgment, ultimately means they can't be that lenient. Because then they're going to, essentially, if it's a slap on the wrist, they're going to say to every team that is ever charged again, And yeah, you don't need to comply either.

9:25Everton, by the way, you mentioned this, we got eight points deducted for an entrance rate infraction on the new stadium. What can we expect if, you know, we were the panel?

9:35Roger Bennett:Well, I think you're absolutely right. The non-compliance charges have always been treated as almost secondary to the actual kind of financial charges. But I'm not sure that's right because the whole thing rests on everyone agreeing to the rules. And it sounds like a stupid comparison, but if one team just decided that actually they didn't really like the way the offside rule worked with or without VAR. The whole thing kind of collapses. And it's the same with financial regulation. If you're saying you've all signed up to play by these rules and then one team breaks them and then refuses to help with an investigation, that isn't acting in good faith.

10:09Roger Bennett:And this whole thing, like all sports, rests on good faith. It rests on everyone accepting these are the rules and we have to abide by them. I think that means that the sanction has to be Swinging, I think is the journalist The sort of journalese term for it It has to be quite harsh And as you say, the Everton points to Dutch And the Forrest points to Dutch And they kind of set a bar for the tariff Of what you get for Compared to this, relatively minor offences Chelsea, I suppose, is the other comparison They've been given kind of suspended sentences and fines For their own historic offences But the difference there, and this is important Chelsea's new ownership, love them or loathe them, reported them themselves.

10:51Roger Bennett:That was definitely... It was from the previous owner and they self-reported. They found them in the books when they took over and they self-reported. And I think the Premier League took that into account. If they hadn't and they'd been discovered at a later date, I think you'd have seen much more severe punishments. So yeah, I think there is a lot, there is a good chance now because of the scale of the victory for the Premier League. I'm not sure that's quite the right way of framing it, but because of the fact that City have been found guilty on the majority of charges. I think we have to prepare ourselves for the idea that unless there has been some sort of procedural mistake, that the punishment City get is going to be pretty severe.

11:26Oh, Chelsea. Remember, snitches get stitches, yeah.

11:30Roger Bennett:Not self-snitches. If you self-snitch, you don't get stitches. And most of all, I didn't like about Todd Burley, he's a self-snitcher. The one question I get most after all that football memory-making we experienced across America this summer is, How do I keep the magic going? I'd start by saying, articulate what you love the most and then build on it. First step, find the team that will most probably break your heart. And then add all the supporting necessities to build your weekend tradition. The key to so many of mine, it's Walmart. The place that has it all. The snacks, the coffee, the pies.

12:07You can also get the TV at Walmart. The hoodie to wear on your couch. Get the couch if you need it. And wait, it gets better. because their express delivery can get it right to your door so you're all set for kick-off. Whatever your matchday needs are, you can find them at walmart.com slash soccer. Delivery timing varies by order size, traffic, weather and demand. Subject to availability, fees and terms apply. We do have to mention, before we all get ahead of ourselves, Manchester City were banned from the Champions League February 2020. That UEFA ban was overturned in the court of arbitration for sport almost immediately for statute of limitations that doesn't apply here.

12:46Roar, I want to talk about the possible pathways that it could go. For the Premier League though, look, I watch Narcos all the time. There are consistent Pedro Pascal moody voiceovers in that show about how society's only function when there are both laws and the willingness to apply them. Is this a victory today for the Premier League or do we have to hold our horses there and wait to see dot, dot, dot?

13:11Roger Bennett:So I think in one sense it is because it justifies the fact that they've pursued this case for three and a half years at considerable cost. Like the legal bills, as you know, as a former lawyer, Rod, you'd have been charging an absolute bucket load for this work, wouldn't you? You'd have been absolutely quidzing. I love football. Showing. So I think in terms of kind of getting justice, the Premier League have won. They have clearly made the case convincingly that City have not adhered to the rules and therefore should be punished. That is a win. But if you look at the consequences, is I think it's really hard to say that this is a case of the Premier League acting in its own interest.

13:46Roger Bennett:Even the Premier League as a thing doesn't really exist, Rog. This is one of those weird things where we talk about the Premier League. The Premier League is just its clubs and some people who work to implement the will of those clubs. But there is now a question mark. Whatever the punishment is over every single title that City have won in this period, which I think probably impacts the perception of the competition, the reputation of the competition, it might have an impact on if you're one of the broadcast partners if you're sky sports or nbc or whoever kind of what you've been broadcasting and paying quite a lot of money to broadcast for the last 10 years how real has it been like we don't know and you then have as i mentioned the the scope for legal kind of ramifications claims from one club against others that could mire the the premier lead in all sorts of legal quandaries and quagmires for years so it's not the case that this is a great day for the Premier League.

14:40Roger Bennett:They won't be sitting in their offices, which are Paddington in London, celebrating. They will know that this is justification for all of the effort of the last three and a half years, including the investigation. But it's not a good thing for the Premier League. It would have been better, Rog, if everyone had adhered to the financial rules in the first place. Oh my God, that is crazy what you've just laid down. That is mind-bending. That is like severance level, like in-e and out-e, league titles, one loss, what could have been the hypotheticals. will make you lose your mind. Please, people, stop texting me funny tweets about how the punishment is going to be severe and it is that Everton are going to be relegated to divisions.

15:18It's not funny. It brings back so many terrible memories. But one last one. You've kind of hit on this. Premier League would normally prefer to apply punishments to the future looking, so that they're real punishments that impact the club in the here and now, as opposed to kind of retrospective ones, like in Caltopoli in Italy. Rio Ferdinand was quick to treat. Another medal added to the cabinet room. Liverpool fans all over the internet proclaiming more Klopp title wins. I think he finished second, was it, twice? Arsenal fans are quickly heralding Mikel Arteta, three-time Premier League title winner.

15:55Can I get a ruling from you on this, Ruhr, an objective one from you as a red?

16:01Roger Bennett:Yeah, I think, and this will be taken as terrible bitterness by City fans. to me stripping them of the titles if they are found guilty if we get to the end of the end of the process and that we all decide that city are guilty i think stripping them of titles makes the most sense because that is the kind of most coherent sporting punishment more than a points deduction or a transfer ban or whatever the caveat to that is that you can't change the moment so the feeling that city fans had when they won in 2012 or when they won in 2014 or all the titles under Guardiola that feeling existed just as the feeling of disappointment that Liverpool had in in 2019 and 2022 when they missed out on the last day I remember that disappointment and that disappointment was real and you it doesn't change it knowing that that kind of five ten years down the line you actually theoretically on paper won the title so I would say my my belief is that if we get to the end and and everything is as it stands now that city are guilty on all of these charges but one i think the most appropriate punishment is probably to strip them of the titles but not award them to say that they sit empty manchester city always have those memories you generationally grandparents can look at their grandkids and be like do you remember that incredible day when we did that fraud and we won that title oh it's just the greatest do you remember do you Remember that payment to Yaya Torre's image rights.

17:24Oh, it was wonderful. What does it do for Pep? What do you think Pep Guardiola's feeling today as he's walking around his room in his slightly off-kilter cargo pants? Like, there's appeals. This thing has got the cases to be decided. But what does it do for his legacy in the here and now?

17:43Roger Bennett:It makes it more complicated, Rog. But then, I mean, from his point, I wouldn't want to claim to be inside Pep psychology. but I think we are as humans quite good at performing the mental gymnastics necessary to convince ourselves until the last possible moment that things will work out the way we want them to. So I'm sure Pep will be hanging on to the idea that there will be an appeal, that there will be a way of making it look better than it does at the moment. But if it does reach the end and City are guilty, then I think it without question complicates Pep's legacy. All the impact he had on English football is real, and the memories that he gave us, the teams that he produced, they all existed but I think that there is an asterisk for the time being and possibly in perpetuity next to everything now that is that is how serious it is just as it was with Calciopoli in Italy that as soon as and it may well be that you know the Clippers or whatever have similar stories to tell but there is an asterisk next next to everything that is achieved when things are won and later stained that's the way it works that's why you're meant to adhere to the rules.

18:46Imagine Pep has probably got hold of Lord Panic, the lawyer who's representing Manchester City as if he's Nico O 'Reilly after a bad game and has just grabbed him and is explaining legal tactics to him furiously as the appeal is mounted.

19:00Roger Bennett:Pep was always really good in defeat, he was always really gracious, he'll be, guys, guys listen, they played a great game, they played a great game great, great case they made he'll be gracious in defeat When they ask him, how do you fail after 114 charges figure so so happy i am so so happy so good so good yeah it's perhaps a great example it's a great kind of lens to see it through roger because everything he did for english football is real but it's maybe not quite as real as it looked it's a better days ahead and we'll be following this as it breaks raw i'd like to say it's good to see you i've seen you in better better moments But thank you, man, for making the deeply complicated so much more simpler.

19:47Big, big love.

19:53The one question I get most after all that football memory making we experienced across America this summer is, how do I keep the magic going? I'd start by saying articulate what you love the most and then build on it. First step, find the team that will most probably break your heart. and then add all the supporting necessities to build your weekend tradition. The key to so many of mine is Walmart. The place that has it all. The snacks, the coffee, the pies. You can also get the TV at Walmart. The hoodie to wear on your couch. Get the couch if you need it. And wait, it gets better. Because their express delivery can get it right to your door so you're all set for kickoff.

20:33Whatever your matchday needs are, you can find them at walmart.com slash soccer. Delivery timing varies by order size. traffic, weather and demand subject to availability, fees and terms apply.