Has Pochettino found "his guys"? & Why the USMNT HAVE to win vs. Mexico | GOLD CUP FINAL preview with Herc Gomez: Men in Blazers 07/04/25

0:00You're listening to the Men in Blazers Media Network, Suboptimal Radio.

0:14It's Gold Cup final time and for the eighth wonder in football history, the United States will face dread rival Mexico, a footballing animosity that's lived out at levels only known to the Banshees of Insurin. The good news, our young, raw, short-handed squad and Tim Ream have found a way to gut it out to the final in Houston, clinging on to scrape past 106 in the world, Guatemala, in quite severely hostile conditions on home turf in St. Louis. We were dominated for long spells, but we kept it together. Just Mexico, now a waiter team, not without their own vulnerabilities. And so Potch's young charges will continue their Conquer Cafe Heroes journey, taking their lumps, learning their lessons, holding on.

1:01There is no doubt they will become all the stronger for this experience. But will they win? To discuss it all, it's a joy to speak with my friend, a bloke who's been everywhere for ESPN this summer and continues to deliver wonder as a host of VAMOS on the Men in Blazers media network. Fresh back from St. Louis, it's Mr. Hercules Gomez.

1:21Herc Gomez:Raj, how you doing, my man? And that was my first time in St. Louis in, I want to say, 15 years, maybe longer. It wasn't what I thought, good and bad. You mean in the city or the football or both? Both. I won't stand for any St. Louis erasure on this show. I am all in on salt and smoke, the St. Louis barbecue. I missed it. I didn't do the St. Louis barbecue. I went to the tap room right across from Energizer City Park, the stadium, which, by the way, is beautiful. I've been there and I've saved it every second. Are you at least tell me you're 87 % made up of toasted ravs at this moment? I can neither confirm nor deny, but it was quite a plane ride.

2:01For the other people on the plane is what you're saying, Herc. Well, let's get to the football because this is not a proctology podcast. That's my other show. But I want this to be really time to get a look ahead to the final to come. So let's start with the positive from a United States POV. And that is that a star is born, Mr. Diego Luna. Two goals inside 15 minutes. First, delicious finish with real spidey ball awareness, faster than all those around in reactive wise. Then the second, really a must save a moment in terms of this tournament and the United States pure and cork delirious skill.

2:38Clint Dempsey said to me all tournament long, he was longing for one player to step up and say, I will not be ignored. Lord, I'm going to take you on. I'm going to destroy you. I've got nothing to lose. I'm going to seize my chance with a World Cup squad place on the line. This was the moment. Diego Luna did this fearlessly. This 21-year-old kid from Sunnyvale, California, three goals, two assists across the matches. Poch said his attitude, hunger, desire, everything. And then for sure, the talent will appear, but it's what we expect from our athletes. Here's my question, Herc. Why of all the MLS players is he really just one of one?

3:17Herc Gomez:Well, he's one of one because in the big moments he's come through. He's one of one because when certain players decided, and I know it's circumstantial that they didn't want to be here, and the fan base said, wait, you don't care about this team? Why should we care about you? He's the one who raised his hand and said, I care about this team. I care about being a part of it. And he's easily identifiable. And what I mean by that is if you watch him, you feel represented. When I watched Diego Luna and both goals were so timely. I mean, I was at the stadium where it was 90 % pro Guatemalan crowd to a, and I'm being very generous, 10 % U.S.

3:56Herc Gomez:men's national team. He took the sting out of the crowd. He took the crowd out of the game. And I thought that was so important. And when he scores, Raj, he's grabbing the shirt. He's pointing at the badge and he's telling everybody this is his house. You're a guest. This is my house. I identified with that. I identified with somebody trying to take advantage of an opportunity. Somebody saying, this is my dream and I'm not going to let go of it. He's easy to root for. That's why he's one of one, because people identify with somebody like Diego Luna. Yeah, it's his fight, his desire, his passion, his workmanlike quality, the story where he's kind of propelled himself against all odds through the USL into MLS.

4:37And I mean, who knows where he's going to go next? By the way, I did love Ryan Rosenblatt's tweet. Clint Dempsey, but small, tatted up. A Mexican, Diego Luna was made for me to love. I too love his love of the United States team. If you want to be moved, read what Diego Luna said about choosing to play for the United States over Mexico to the journalist Brian Scarretta. We pop the quote up on USMNT only. It's really moving, particularly at this July 4th moment. But I also love Luna's own quote post game. The game is 90 minutes of hundreds of moments you've got to execute on each one, which is truth.

5:16That's his attitude. I spent some time with Diego in Austin ahead of the Saudi Arabia game. and I asked him what happens in his head when he takes possession and he said, I just try and have fun like I did when I was a kid playing in the park in San Jose. And it reminded me of something that Clint says on The Deuce where he says you've got to get serious about having fun. That's what Diego Luna's doing this summer, being serious. So, you know, the debates are raging. Is he an A-team starter when the rest of the squad Avenger assemble next time? Will there be a spark plug off the bench? Simon Evans, the journalist, suggested Poch should unleash all his toys.

5:54Forget the Luna versus Pulisic discussion. If you're Pochettino, you should be thinking, how do you get both of them on the field at the same time? I mean, the US international team might actually be exciting to watch for the first time in dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Herc, how do you answer that?

6:10Herc Gomez:I don't. I think the only one who can answer that is Marisa Pochettino. And sometimes coaches make the mistake of trying to get their best players on the field instead of their best team on the field. And when I analyzed Diego Luna, when the set of friendlies came about, no, let's go back. When January camp came about, I'm thinking to myself, yeah, he did well in the January camp. Yeah, it's cool. You know, he broke his nose. He did the quote, Pochettino. He's got balls. It went viral. It's a funny little moment, but - Big balls. Big balls, correct. But is he anywhere near the World Cup picture?

6:43Herc Gomez:No, no, he's not. And then the next camp comes about and he's playing friendlies and he does well, and I'm thinking to myself, well, yeah, he did well enough. Actually, you know, he's one of the few that at least fought. He was hungry. He ran. He showed he wanted to be there when most players were just getting worked by Switzerland, by Turkey. But is he really in or around the 26? Maybe he's fighting to be 24, 25, 26. And then the tournament starts, and you're like, well, yeah, he kind of scored, but they gave it to Patrick Gajimman. Was it really? Can you really get anything out of this? it was Trinidad and Tobago.

7:18Herc Gomez:And then you keep going forward and forward. And every time I talk about Diego Luna, I'm saying, well, yeah, but he's probably probably 17th, 18th, 19th now. And now I'm going back and I'm thinking to myself, can this kid crack a lineup? Like, could he really be in line to start some games in 2026? And I can't for good reason think of something. Think of something to tell you of why not. Every time I come away looking at Diego Luna, I say, yeah, but, but he keeps ascending in that depth chart. And on this trajectory where he's ascending, he might find himself starting. Now, listen, I've been covering Diego Luna without my knowledge for quite some time.

8:00Herc Gomez:Football Americas, we were interviewing Diego Luna when he was part of the US El Paso locomotive when he was a teenager in El Paso. And then he goes to Salt Lake and I'm still interviewing the kid. And he's, you know, being spurned by the Olympic team. And, you know, we're talking about him and I'm interviewing him here on Vamos. And I've been along the Diego Luna train and I've seen the good, the bad, the ugly. And every single time, even when I think he's made a mistake, I've come away impressed with him and how he's handled that. His maturity, the way he's been able to rebound from something like that.

8:37Herc Gomez:And I can't in good conscience say there is no Diego Luna in the horizon in 2026. Amen. I've got to tell you, he is the greatest cult hero, I think, for this team, arguably since Kyle Beckerman, who is a similar against all odds. You know, is he really going to make the squad, but just could made himself impossible to be denied and forced himself? I think against a lot of the consensus opinions into them became a really key player playing. I mean, playing massive moments. Want to let listeners know, Men in Blazers is going to be in New York City live next week with Rory Smith living and breathing for three live events on Sixth Avenue in Manhattan.

9:16Got some very, very special guests joining us. We're going to tape a ton of live shows during both Club World Cup semifinals Tuesday and Wednesday at 3 p.m. Also Friday at 6 p.m. Come and be with us. We're going to raise an ultra with every single one of you before the game, during it, half time, and then full time. We will tape a show with your questions live and in person. Best part, entrance is free. All we ask is you RSVP so we know you're coming. RSVP link is in the show notes of this on YouTube, also in the pod notes. Come be with us. Hopefully, come for all the shows. It's going to be incredible to be with you in New York.

9:54Big, big love. But we now need to talk about the darkness because 2-0 up, 106 in the world, Guatemala, should have been knocked out. But instead, they proceeded to turn the game on its head. The game by its throat really started to overwhelm us. Before the US scored their second, Potts' boys had 70 % possession after the second goal. Like that, we had 40%. We're outshot over the whole game, 20-12. This is 106 in the world, Guatemala, shooting 20 times. The noise once Guatemala scored in the 81st minute was utterly epic. And the last 10 minutes were, honestly, this is a tribute to Guatemala, an agony for all of us U.S.

10:35fans. U.S. couldn't hold on to the ball going forward. Clint said if the game went on for five minutes longer, the outcome would have been so different.

10:44Herc Gomez:What changed? Oh, because they never really had control of the game. They're not a type of team that has at least shown us that they can control a game for 90 minutes. I guess they did against Trinidad, but did they really against Trinidad? What can you really take away from that? It was more self-inflicted wounds from Trinidad and Tobago. But if you look at this team, complete performances, they've allowed teams to come back into games for quite some time. Even when they were playing well in the friends against Trakeia. They allowed that team to come back into that game and overtake them. You knew there was going to be a sense of when, not if.

11:16Herc Gomez:and looking at this team, Guatemala, we previewed this, Raj, and you asked me what I thought the score would be. I said, I think the U.S. would win two to one. And when you asked me about Costa Rica, I thought it'd go into penalty kicks and I thought Taylor Niles would be the hero and Costa Rica would win. I've been fairly close here. My sensations tell me this team is too green. They're very young. That's my answer. When you get into this moment where you got to rely on muscle memory, where you have to rely on, I've been there, I've done that, I've got the emotional nerves to suppress this feeling.

11:48Herc Gomez:If you don't have that, it's emotional paralysis. The world is caving in on you. It's not a good feeling. It feels like that 20 ,000 seat stadium is 100. It feels like those fans are literally yelling in your face. And it feels like everybody's watching you and you don't know what to do. I saw that, but they survived.

12:14I really give huge respect, huge love, huge thanks to the Guatemala fans. They were amazing. Potch actually talked about it quite clumsily post-game. He talked about how they shared, I'm paraphrasing, they showed the American fans what proper football culture is, which I understood where he was coming from. But the honest truth is, as you pointed out, I think, in the post-game show on ESPN, many of those fans are Americans. They're Guatemalan Americans supporting their team. This is who we are in the United States. But that game might have been in St. Louis, but that sold-out stadium felt like it was in Guatemala City.

12:48What a fan base. John Strong agreed with you when the game kicked off. He said, it's the 90 % Guatemalan fans, which is astonishing. I am not Guatemalan hurt, but when that national anthem rang out pre-game, I found that noise. I found the joy, found the pride emanating from all four sides of the stadium. I found it deeply moving. I want to dwell on this very quickly because I want to look forward. But we cannot use the complaint that tickets are too expensive for this tournament, again, to show why the U.S. plans are not turning up. Because the Guatemala fans, they showed out.

13:23Herc Gomez:It's also a historical run. It's the first time they've made the semifinals in the modern era. They've been the joy of the Gold Cup. Guatemala's been a pleasant surprise. But this isn't the first time we've seen these pleasant surprises. Guatemala is the darling of this tournament, and they deserve all the flowers that are being thrown at them. In their group, in their World Cup group, they've got a serious opportunity of being a top two team with Panama and Suriname, and they can make a World Cup for the first time in their history. They've got to get first if they want to go direct. If they get second, it's going to be a tough draw, that crossover in the wild card with the Venezuela or maybe a Bolivia, which would be very difficult.

13:58Herc Gomez:We don't know where that would be, but they had that dangling in front of them. And most importantly, their team gave them something to fight for. When the U.S. men's national team gives their fan base something to fight for, they will show up. You're making two points, and I agree with both of them. First of all, I've got to salute the gutsy Guatemalan team and their coach in particular, Luis Fernando Tena, who I think was fantastic. That fan base deserves all the joy. To me, they're a glimpse of the passion, the competitive fire which can lift this Gold Cup and grow into a self-respecting tournament in the future, which I think we all long for.

14:34And I hope that a first ever World Cup qualification is their fan solace. I agree also that for all who love the United States team as we do, the sight of that stadium in St. Louis should make everyone a U.S. soccer. It should make all of us gulp and think about, well, I mean, how can they reconnect? How can they establish the passion, the authentic joy that was the trademark of the United States fan base in 2010, 2014? team you know the energy behind the team then the number of fans the passion traveling with this team around the world we've got to be honest with ourselves about where those fans have gone and what needs to be done to recover and reconnect these players this team this fan base you know i'll just say if if i see the camera zoom in on the one guy who dresses up as alexi lalas again i love that man i love that man but him being the go-to cutaway that's why that's why they didn't route Guatemala he keeps showing up and then I feel I mean I've not met him and this is not he's amazing as is Eagleman by the way but if you cut away to him four straight games that is three straight games too many I will say no more I mean here's what I did want to ask you though how good are we Herc I think it's like impossible to say the teams we've beaten yes they have incredible conquer calf mentalities but they are so far from being the kind of true challenges we're going to face in the World Cup.

15:58The quality of our lineup is the B, the C string. We've since beaten teams ranked 100th, 58th, is it 83rd and 106th in the world? And we drew with the 54th and got by them on penalties. Right now, this may be controversial to you. We are to football what Jake Paul is to boxing. Who knows how good we are?

16:18Herc Gomez:He just got ranked, by the way. He's 14th now in the WBA. And this US Men's national team beat a C team is going to play for a trophy, Raj. They're one and the same right now. So take it with a grain of salt. That's what we are with Jake Paul's football. We could be. The U.S. Men's National could be this version. And I don't think that's a bad thing. It's very difficult to draw conclusions of this tournament with what you have. And what you have are players trying to individually make a case for themselves. And Marisa Pochettino is in an impossible position. And I found myself last night after the Football America's post show thinking to myself, was I too hard on Marisa Pochettino because I think it was lost in translation.

17:00Herc Gomez:And like you, I kind of get where he was going. And I think I got caught up in the moment. So looking back on it, I'll give him a pass. He wants these players to know how much it means. And he wants the fan base. And I think this is more ignorance than anything. He wants the fan base to represent like Guatemala does because he's never seen the U.S. men's national team in Columbus. He's never seen them in Minneapolis. He's never had a World Cup qualifier. He's never seen the A team completely take it to a team in their home, in their field, and that team's got no chance. He's never felt that type of representation.

17:36Herc Gomez:So how can he not react this way? His words, in Argentina, it would be different. You're damn right. And in Argentina, your job would be on the line right now. Now, if that's what he wants, if that's the fire we're going to hold him to, I'm fine with it. I think it was lost in translation. And I think a little bit of that was ignorance, good ignorance. He's going to experience come the World Cup time what it is in a soccer country because the U.S. is a soccer country. It's one of the top consumers of football in the world. It's the highest played youth sport in the country. It's not football. It's not soccer.

18:13Herc Gomez:It's not American football. It's not tennis. It's not basketball. It's soccer. And he has to understand how people consume the sport here. It's maybe not a U.S. men's national team country, but that's on you to change it. It may not be a major league soccer country. That's on other people to change that. But the U.S. women, they're pretty damn popular here. Why is that? Because they win. So I think he and this team can go about that differently. But honestly, they're playing for a trophy right now. They're playing for a trophy. I want people to really, I've been driving a narrative that this is a C team.

18:47Herc Gomez:and I've probably been the conductor of this train. This is a C team. What can you get out of it? You've already identified one or two, maybe three players. You're like, this is interesting. A Malik Tillman, a Diego Luna. And now we have a goalie battle. Is it Matt Freese? Is it Matt Turner? Is it Patrick Schulte? Is Zach Steffen maybe still in or around there? Does he have something to say? So you might find a fight. Let's goos him. If we can pry him away from the zone, it could be goos on. we've answered some of these identification questions and we've also put a little fire on the backside of some of these players who may have thought they were untouchable

19:34let's talk about who they're facing in this final sunday night in houston bring on mexico a game which producer Juan told me feels a bit like a fight between a pair of twins arguing which one's older and which one's more mature. Both teams are really trying to find a semblance of chemistry among their players before this World Cup. Mexico's squad filled with young talent looking to make the jump from Liga MX to European football, struggling to create going forward in a similar way to us, but they have not allowed a goal now in 383 minutes. I think their goalkeeper, Luis Angel Malagón, has had to make only one save in the last three games.

20:14It's fair to call this a mix of A and B players, I think. I'd love your read on this. But how would you describe, just give us an overview of the strengths, the weaknesses of their challenge?

20:22Herc Gomez:I think this is their A team. And I don't think there are too many surprises. There may be two surprises. One will be Marcel Ruiz, who's in the center of the midfield. He's sort of a newcomer. And the other one is 16-year-old Gilberto Mora, which is unbelievable. Because Mexico does not do youth. So the fact that you have a 16-year-old starting the knockout rounds for consecutive games and he gives an assist, he gave the Raul Jimenez assist. He's the youngest player ever to assist in a semifinal of this competition. That doesn't happen in Mexican football. So there is a bit of a change happening.

20:52Herc Gomez:But what you see is what you get. There are no real surprises with this player pool. So this is the A team here. Their strengths, well, this is a team that's been playing with each other forever. So they know each other. That's a strength. They've got very creative players. That's another strength. Their weaknesses. they don't defend as a unit and their coach is a pragmatic coach when you have a pragmatic coach who wants to defend and you're not good at defending as a unit it can be problematic yes they've not allowed a goal in i believe uh 300 plus minutes that's great but if we break down the games the dominican republic they were in that game you give the dominican republic two or three more minutes they tie that game in los angeles a very pro mexican crowd against surinam they caused them a ton of fits because this team is not athletic.

21:37Herc Gomez:They really struggle with any type of physicality and athleticism. And then you go on Costa Rica. Costa Rica was outplayed for the first 30 minutes until they weren't, and they turned it around, and they had their chances. This team will give you opportunities, and this team does not like physicality. So those are the few weaknesses right there, but they've got a very in-form, I would say, few players. Raul Jimenez, he's finding his form. He's got two goals this tournament. He's looking for Chicharito's all-time lean goal score record. And for Javier Aguirre, he's the guy. Everything goes around him.

22:12Herc Gomez:And I would say other than that, the two center backs are their strength. Cesar Montes, he's coming back in the form. He's actually got three goals in this tournament as a center back. And Johan, Vasquez, those two together are a really strong pair. Alberto Moura is, you said he's 16. I want to be clear, he's 459 days younger than Luminum Al, which is staggering. Plays as an attacking midfielder for Tijuana, debuted professionally at the age of 15, scored his first goal this season, became the league's youngest ever scorer. Can you complete this sentence for me, Herc? The idea of Hilberto Moura running at 37-year-old Tim Ream is what, Herc?

22:54Herc Gomez:It's terrifying because this is a player that gets in behind teams. He runs at players. He facilitates. He's very composed beyond his years. Listen, on this side of the pond, we talk a lot about what Coven Sullivan could one day be. Back on that side, they're talking about what he already is. He's a national team player who just signed with Rafael Pimienta, who's Erling Haaland's agent, and is already looking to book his ticket to Europe. I know that Kavan has already signed with City, but he's right now playing for Philly's second team. He's right now looking for first team minutes. This kid's playing on the national team.