Jürgen Klinsmann on the USMNT, the 2026 FIFA World Cup draw, and what success looks like this summer: American Dreams presented by Michelob ULTRA 12/11/25

0:00You're listening to the Men in Blazers media network, Suboptimal radio. I think the sky is the limit, Roger. The sky is the limit. American players are capable to go beyond their capabilities when they really believe in that moment. And if that team builds a real, real strong spirit, they are capable to go far.

0:29my guest today is a man who can understand like few others exactly what's going on for Mauricio Pochettino and the U.S. men's national team right now in the days and weeks after the World Cup draw because he's lived these moments as a manager of the U.S. team leading them into the 2014 World Cup as he had Germany into the 2006 World Cup before that. So now the draw is made. The opponents are known in the group stage. The physical journey the team must live in the opening round is clear down to the very last air mile in an episode made possible by our great friends at Michelob Ultra, Superior Light Beer.

1:08It's a joy to welcome back a man who won the whole enchilada as a player. It's Mr. Jürgen Klinsmann. Yeah, good morning, Roger. What a pleasure. It's an incredible time to be alive. We speak days after the World Cup draw ended. I know you're actually there in the Kennedy Center. What was it like inside that room filled with a quite surreal pomp and circumstance? Obviously, it's a thrilling moment for every coach, for every federation, because you wait for that moment in order to get into the run towards the World Cup. You want to know your opponents. You want to know where you play. You want to know, OK, how can we set the camp up?

1:45how can we do the preparation who do we play in the kind of two, three scrimmages before the World Cup what is our home base then during the World Cup and all those things and now they can plan, everybody was very, very eager just to get the information what group am I in, where am I based where do we play and now they can go full speed I want to talk to you about all of that because you've lived it and I remember talking to you about it in the 2013 moment, there's so many complex decisions that need to almost a chain reaction that occurs. But I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge, Jürgen, that the draw this year ended with the village people, you know, and everyone was like, what do they have to do with football?

2:25And then we all remembered they sang with your German World Cup team for the song of the 1994 World Cup far away in America. Yeah, I do remember. Very embarrassing, Roger. It was very embarrassing. Oh, my God. Whose idea was it? How did it even happen in the first place? Germans are traditionally not anymore, But in those days, they did always a record, you know, with a couple of songs, even at the times of Franz Beckenbauer in the 70s. And they were all embarrassing. I mean, there was not even one good record being produced. And they made us do that with the Village People before the 94 World Cup.

3:01It's a tough man's paradise. I think that was the opening line. You better don't go on YouTube to watch it. Do not go on YouTube. Everyone stops down and immediately goes on YouTube to watch it. But let's talk about the draw. You've played for one of these teams. You've coached three of them that were in the draw, as well as dozens of the players. How do you experience the draw in the moment, analytically, emotionally? Can you describe how it feels in a manager's heart and mind? Well, you realize immediately, you know, once the names get drawn out of the pot, you know, that, okay, this is a top-class caliber.

3:35That is a doable kind of opponent. This is maybe a lighter version of an opponent. You visualize already, okay, hey, what approach are we taking here? I mean, this World Cup, Roger, will be something that was never there before. It goes five and a half weeks. It has another round. If you want to make the final, you play eight games because they went up to 48 teams. And so it's going to be a marathon. And it's not about how good you are in the beginning of the World Cup and maybe in your group stage. It's about obviously going through the group stage. But then it goes into a marathon of knockout games, probably with one or two or maybe three penalty shootouts.

4:10It takes a lot of stamina. It takes a lot of spirit from the team. It takes good camaraderie. There are so many components that go into this new form of a World Cup with five and a half weeks. So it's a lot of planning is involved for any team going to the tournament. On the day itself for your draw 2014, I want to talk about the US draw 2026. But I'm very interested in the messaging of a manager. You were drawn against Germany, Portugal, Ghana, a group of death. You immediately declared your team would fight and try and win. You came out of a great line. You said the U.S. were, quote, not made for draws, really.

4:49Do you speak to your players privately and message them with a different message, or do you just speak to them through the press? I always kind of approach it very transparent. You know, that's what I said to the press. I said also to the players, you know, there were not different messages. But the World Cup really is, and that's my deep belief, and because I played them three myself, it's all about the mental approach going into a tournament like that. The players that you have now at your disposal, the United States or any other countries, they know how to compete. They are good. I mean, they're there for a reason.

5:22They deserve to be at the World Cup. So now it's really crucial that they actually, the closer it gets to the tournament, and build this mental belief in themselves to say, okay, I'm ready for it. I can do something exceptional because they have to go really to the limits. They have to be at almost over 100 % of their capabilities. So you as a manager, you have the job to get the most out of every single player, hopefully to deliver it to the bigger picture, to the team. And you know about the qualities of your players that you have. And I felt like when we went into 2014 that we absolutely have the qualities within the team to compete with Germany, Ghana and Portugal.

6:04And actually, we should have beaten Portugal and Manaus there when we considered in the 93rd minute. We would have been first in a group of six points ahead of the clash with Germany. Oh my gosh, I would have enjoyed that so much. Even reliving that, I'm like, too soon, that pain of that equalizer. Even inside, so your messaging is constant publicly. it's constant to the players i mean that's one more time that group garner portugal germany my god that was a group we're gonna get to the group in 2026 in a second in comparison inside did you not allow yourself even for a second to be like holy crap that's a mountain i have to climb or do you even persuade yourself no i didn't have to persuade myself no i i totally believed it i mean we played friendlies with germany we beat them twice and friendlies okay a friendly is a friendly in a World Cup game is a World Cup game.

6:57But no, I mean, you look at your players and you look where they play. And now, actually, when you look at them, where they play now, they play for Champions League teams in Europe. I mean, I was dreaming about that, that they played Champions League at that time. But so they know the differences between, you know, the top elite and the next level of elite. And they play Champions League games and they play in highly competitive club matches, you know, all year round. And there, you know, you have to basically convince them saying, you know, no matter who the opponent will be. Yeah, maybe you say, if I play Germany, maybe out of 10 games, I maybe win two.

7:36I draw three and I lose five, you know. But who doesn't tell you that these two wins that you handle them might be at the World Cup, right? Might be at the World Cup. So the timing of the World Cup that they peak, they peak right at the right moment in the middle of June, July 26 is there. This possibility is there. I mean, I compared a little bit with the Roger, with the Olympics, you know, 100 meter sprint in Olympics. He needs to time it for four years to get this damn gold medal in that specific moment in time. So they try to peak themselves to the right moment. And so a World Cup is about, can you reach your peak in the 2026 right there in June, July?

8:19And there are some players, they are able to do that. Some players, you know, maybe start slowly the tournament, but end up very, very strongly. And some teams are capable to kind of be very consistent. And some really mean need to kind of go full speed from the first day on. So it's the different cultures coming into play, the different, you know, where your background is and, you know, what is your country all about? You know, so you look at the Italians, you know, they're still not qualified, but they might qualify end of March and win the World Cup. The Germans have a word for it, right? For teams that find their way during the tournament that play themselves into World Cup peak form.

9:01There is a large compound German noun for that kind of a team. You don't know what it is, do you? No, because it didn't work out the last two World Cups. They went home in the group states. I'm sure they got a word for the opposite now. But let's talk about our draw. We will play South American Dreamers, Paraguay, 39th in the world in Los Angeles, June the 12th. Then we face up to 26th in the world, Australia, from the land down under in Seattle on June 19th. Then a team still to emerge from the playoffs, Turkey A, 25th in the world, most probably Romania, Slovakia or Kosovo, also a possibility.

9:39Play them in Los Angeles on June the 25th. I think if that draw was offered to us before the draw, we would have bitten your arm off. You've already hinted a World Cup game is a world away from friendlies. I mean, every team is going to be a unique challenge. There's no walkovers. What was your honest reaction to it? It could have been a lot worse. It could have been a lot worse, but it is a tricky group. It's tricky because Paraguay can hurt you in any split second. You know, Australia, they are known for a fighting team. You know, they give everything they have. They have big hearts. So none of those games will be easy.

10:15It's difficult for you as a manager to imagine or as a coach to imagine at what kind of level this team is right now that you face in that moment. So maybe you catch them actually at the wrong moment. And they are able to do miracles. So every game you have to be a thousand percent there. You have to be very alert. You have to be on top of your own game. It's an absolutely doable draw. I mean, the expectations are very simple that you have to go through. You know, with eight third place teams going through as well into the knockout phase, there's no doubt about it that the U.S. has to go through there.

10:55But still, you know, you cannot underestimate any of those teams for just a split second.

11:04we've beaten the first two opponents that were facing paraguay and australia in the last two months but they they were in friendlies can you describe the difference between friendly play and and real competitive games real world cup competitive games as a manager what is the difference that we don't understand as fans difference is that yes you want to take the friendlies as serious as possible. You go there, you try to play your best game. But I think mentally you're not prepared for the worst case situation. Meaning if the game goes wrong and you lose a friendly against Paraguay 1-0, it's 10 minutes to go.

11:42Yes, you will try to equalize the game, but you will say in the back of your mind, even if you don't equalize that game, it's not such a big of a deal. In a World Cup game, if you're down 1-0 to Paraguay and you have 10 minutes to go, you start to panic. You start to panic. You need to figure out a way now to turn this thing around and get this damn point and make sure you're going through. And suddenly the emotional effects in a real game, in a real World Cup game, are beyond what you can imagine in a friendly game. So your attention level, your nervousness, your energy, I mean, your brain is just going 300 miles an hour.

12:19You cannot compare friendly games with real games. I mean, it's fascinating. Ultimately, you say we have no idea how our team will cope in adversity in that fight or flight situation. I mean, we Americans, we have no idea what our true weight class is, essentially, because all we've got is this steady diet of friendlies. And each of our opponents has had that true qualifying gauntlet to grind themselves into chemistry, into form, into confidence. How much of a disadvantage is that for us? And how does that play through? Just friendly, friendly, friendly, friendly. I think it's a little bit of a disadvantage for the coaching staff.

12:59Now for Maurizio to kind of pump them up and make them clear, listen, you know, even if it's just a friendly, let's get the most out of it. Let's learn, let's progress, let's start to mould as a team, let's build the chemistry, Let's become a team, you know. But I think, you know, once you go into preparation to the World Cup, so two and a half weeks, three weeks prior to the World Cup, that's when it really, really starts. You know, I think nobody looks back anymore on if you had qualifying games now or friendly games. That doesn't at all matter anymore. You hope as a manager then that you get all your players, your 26 players into camp healthy.

13:36They're not bringing any issues with, any knocks with, you know, from their club season. they are in a good spirit they cannot wait until now this whole preparation starts for the World Cup so this is your hope but I think it's not such a big of a deal that you just had friendly games in the run up to the World Cup You saw us play against South Korea in person we got beaten in that game we've had a mini spike since what is our true weight class the US team Jürgen how good are we we were whacked by real European opponents Switzerland and Turkey the form has changed. Where do we stack up right now?

14:12Argentina, France, England, if they're your heavyweight, Spain. Where are we? What weight are we battling at? How should we think about ourselves? The US soccer fan, you know, can be really excited, can be really excited and optimistic because it's qualities, the quality of the players we have just at the moment right now, playing in big clubs in Europe, knowing what it means to play serious games, Champions League games, league games and very strong leagues, they are capable to go to another level. They are capable to mold. And when they mold and when they kind of find the right spirit among themselves, being into camp there, I think the sky is the limit, Roger.

14:56The sky is the limit. I mean, I remember, I'm looking back and sometimes still look at the 94 US team You know, with Tab Ramos, with Thomas Dooley, with Alexi Lalas, you know, Tony Miola in goal, you know, Eric Vinaldo up front. Holy moly, that was an amazing team. You've got to go through that team name by name. And I tell you, they were on the edge to beat Brazil, who won the World Cup. If that wasn't for this unfortunate, horrible foul from Leonardo on Tab Ramos, you know, breaking his face, basically. And American players are capable to go beyond their capabilities, you know, when they really believe in that moment.

15:39And I think, you know, I mean, I really hope that we see some surprises there this upcoming summer. And if that team builds a real, real strong spirit, they are capable to go far. We do have the capability. You and I both believe it. Thousands of our fans do too. It is crazy to me, Jürgen, that our nation, with all its success in other sports, has won just one single World Cup knockout game on the men's side. And that was against Mexico. We have never beaten a non-conquerive opponent in a knockout round. That is crazy to me. I mean, Costa Rica have done it. Cuba have done it. North Korea have done it.

16:20Morocco darling themselves into the semifinal. Why not us? What is our weakness? It's a mental aspect. You know, there is no, there's no football specific weakness in the sense, you know, you can beat anybody at a good day, at a good day. Obviously you played, as I said before, Germany 10 times or Argentina, Brazil 10 times. You will lose the majority of those matches, but you can beat them two or three times out of 10 for sure. So the timing needs to be right there in the World Cup. But when you go into the knockout phase, a new tournament starts. And I think that's also an experience, kind of a topic where the big nations, you know, they've won three, four, Brazil, six World Cups.

17:04They have this kind of a God-given confidence to say, oh, now actually we start playing, you know, after the group phase. I mean, we maybe because we never went further except in 2002, we have doubts, you know, said, oh, now, now maybe we have to go into extra time and maybe goes into a penalty shootout. And it should be exactly the opposite. And I think that's where Maurizio has the majority of his work lying ahead is the mental aspect of it to believe we can beat anybody. And then you take it one game at a time. You take it one game at a time and you will be on the edge and you will have two or three penalty shootouts.

17:44And whatever happens, happens. But it's purely a mental aspect. I mean, talk about our Mexican neighbors. You know, El Quinto Partido, they have nightmares. They have nightmares about the fifth game. They make it barely out of the round of 16. But then they said, OK, that's it. But now there's another game because it's 48 teams. So I pray for them as well that they make it further. It's amazing. You say it's a weakness. And when you say that, I do. I think about the ball dropping to the foot of Chris Wondolowski against Belgium. I speak to the players. One of them told me that when they took the field against Belgium in that round of 16 game in 2014, he said, in our heart, we did not think we could really win.

18:28We could really beat Belgium. What is the weakness in your understanding of it? You experienced it close up. We do have an inferiority complex. Well, it changes only with success. You know, it changes only with the fact that they go through those moments and then they score their first goal and not, in that case, Belgium. And I understood there were De Bruyne and Lukaku and all these guys on the other side, which we usually watch on TV, but it is purely mental. It is absolutely doable. I think that we maybe have a bit of an approach in the United States still to be happy once you make the group face, then almost like there's enters a feeling that, okay, we got the job done.

19:09Instead of saying, now we actually start to work. For the Germans, the Brazilians, the Italians, it's almost like you bother them with the group face and then they want to start the tournament. And sometimes it doesn't work either, like in Germany the last two times, or Italy not even qualified. That happens as well. But I think you have to have a very, very positive approach towards a knockout phase. You know, you got to, I mean, the preparation is key. I mean, we Germans, we train penalties, you know, from the group phase on. You know, we're not waiting until the knockout phase and train penalties.

19:47No, no, we do that already in training in the group phase. What's the goal for the US? What is success in your mind at the 2026 World Cup? What do we have to do to feel proud of ourselves? You can set the goal high. I think there's nothing wrong with setting it high with a quarterfinal or even mentioning a semifinal. Mentioning it doesn't hurt. It gives you drive. It gives you energy. It makes you dream a little bit. If Mauricio says our goal is the semifinals, there's nothing wrong with that because you want to push them. You want to give them the feeling of home advantage to play in your own country.

20:22A World Cup that will never come back to you, not for the fan and not for the player and the coaches either so you want to hold on to that and say we're going to max it out we're going to go all the way as far as we can with everything we have and you have to be able to suffer Roger a tournament is to have to be able to suffer it hurts you've got to run a sprint 60 yards in the 85th minute you're dead tired you cramp up and so who cares you've got to get cramp out of it and just keep on running. So this willingness to suffer is big. And the big nations that are able to do that, they will go far.

21:04I mean, I was in Qatar the entire tournament and I saw Argentina almost go home in the group phase. They lost the first game in Saudi Arabia, then they played Mexico. And they were so scared of Mexico because second half, it was still nil-nil. And if Messi doesn't score the goal from 25 yards out and they win 1-0, then Argentina, the World Cup winner, goes home in the group stage. So that shows you how small the margins are in the World Cup. So anything, I really can only say anything is possible.

21:39Last one on the US. I remember when you were coached in 2014, you were asked after the draw if the US can win it all. Do you remember what you said? No, I don't remember. You said we can't win this World Cup because we're not at that level yet. Talking about winning a World Cup is just not realistic, which, by the way, I loved. I mean, you were just like, I'm in my moment of truth. Poch has said the U.S. must think big. They can win the World Cup. You're both talking truth. You've already said Pochettino is saying dream big. How do you think about both of those things in this moment for us? You can absolutely dream about one time winning the World Cup or maybe even playing at home now, going from game to game, because why can you beat certain opponents?

22:22Like we almost did Portugal in 2014, or obviously Ghana, and we were very close with Germany too. So why can't you beat them in a knockout phase the same way you play them in a group phase? I always said that. So what is the difference between your approach then? You know, it's the World Cup. You were right there, you know? So if you can do that in a group phase game, you know, then you can also do it in a knockout game. but your brain has to kind of fit with that. It has to get along with that. You have to somewhere find a switch to go to another level of suffering, of fighting, of being nasty and of being all willing to go to the extreme.

23:02And there's nothing else than probably a boxing fight. You are down and you're losing by points and you say, I got to knock him out now because otherwise I lose the game by points. I want to touch upon two other teams very quickly. The England team, the English tabloids, already mapping out their route to the semifinals, which is just amazing. What does that say about the unique pressure that the English team feel, which you know all about from your time at Spurs? Something they're worth up. It's actually a progress in England. Now they're actually saying, we're going to get there. We want to win this World Cup.

23:36When I still played, they never believed in winning the World Cup. And now they reach high because they have an exceptional team. They absolutely have an exceptional team. But there is something, and again, go back, Roger, to the mental aspect of it. There's something that makes them in a decisive moment, like the Euro finals, you know, make them scared of themselves. Because once they're getting close to actually win the final, being right there, there's something that triggers in their brain saying, oh, no, we cannot do it. No, it's not. It's not, no. It's just English self-loathing. It's just natural centuries old English self-living.

24:14It doesn't give them the real belief to say, let's do it now. Let's do it now. Put in a gear lower and they just start to defend instead of just finish off the game and score another goal and get it. So I think if you want to win the World Cup, at the end, you've got to risk. You're not going to win a World Cup by defending only. you know and uh and yeah and that's maybe where where england is lacking the last little piece is you know if we are up one nil i'm gonna score the second goal and close it off like against italy in the euro championship final or the last euro final when they scored then the equalizer finally against spain they took off harry kane and i said and i was kind of i was shocked in the stands and said no don't take off harry kane even if he's tired he's gonna score you in a 90 second minute, even a tired, you know, sometimes the coaches then follow maybe suggestions from their bench and say, Oh, he's looking tired.

25:10He's cannot make a sprint. But Harry Kane, I'm not taking off at all. I know because he's German now. That's why he's German.