Liverpool in free fall, Harry Maguire is indomitable, and 1-0 to the Arsenal: Men in Blazers 10/20/25

26:38You know, he is put up for sale or told that he's not starting or stripped of the captaincy and then six weeks later he will be back in the team. He is kind of indomitable in a way that's really, really hard not to admire. I mean, it's that. You kind of make him sound like a footballing flutey to some degree but it is about perseverance. it really is about endurance it is about tenacity and it is about just seeing a human being who has suffered four long spells have a truly transcendent moment where we all experience even a fraction of that joy in our lifetime Gakpo missed a point blank header before the end but that was that United Manchester United first signature win for Ruben Amorim first victory in just under 10 years at Anfield which is incredible.

27:27All these statistics are incredible. Back-to-back wins won in the league by Amorim for the first time. It's taken him 51 games to meet that mark. Over the break, Sir Jim Ratcliffe talked about how Ruben Amorim was going to get three years to rebuild. A lot of question marks when he said that. But right there, the big result, the big calls for the manager all worked out. Casemiro and Bruno in midfield together. The lack of strikers, out-and-out strikers in the starting lineup was a good call. Maguire, so dominant, imperious. Lemons in goal was strong when challenged. So much that was great about this game from a United perspective.

28:05I think the last time they won, Wayne Rooney was a goal scorer, Louis van Gaal, God bless, was the manager. For me, the defensive determination was truly impressive, but even more so was the mentality to grab the winner. Roar, when Liverpool had just equalised, when Anfield had roared, when it believed again to take that punch on the chin and be the one to rise up and deliver the knockout punch. That's how we remember the United of old. It's also how United fans yearn to self-imagine again. Yeah, that's, I think, what was most impressive was the fact that they scored early. Liverpool kind of battered the door down to an extent in that second half in particular.

28:42And at that point, United, given all they've been through, given all the scars they must have, not just from kind of Amarim's first year or so, but from the last five, ten years, whatever it might be, you kind of expect United to wilt, but they didn't. They stood up and they came again and they committed players forward. They kept getting into the box. They kept making chances. They kept trying to attack Liverpool to exploit those gaps that Liverpool were leaving in their pursuit of the winner. And they got their reward. And there was no reason yesterday to begrudge them that from a neutral perspective.

29:13Obviously, personally, I begrudged them enormously. But from a neutral perspective, that was what United deserved for that performance. Neutral right here. I can co-sign. I used the word neutral incredibly loosely there. By the way, no European football for United either, to be troubled by, distracted by, exhausted by. I will just say, them becoming competitive again, we're some ways from really seeing that true run, but then becoming competitive again under Ruben Amirim would be the loudest story of the season, no matter what. Yeah, do you know what, Rog? If you look at the underlying numbers, there is something stirring at Manchester United, that their XG for and against has been kind of ticking upwards for a while.

29:51results have been iffy at times this season as well but I think we can start to see what what Ruben Amorim wants Manchester United to look like what he wants them to be they're still uneven you still have players sort of crammed into positions that don't particularly suit them I don't think they're in a position to challenge Arsenal or Manchester City for the title but they are without question improving and as you say Ruben Amorim doesn't have to think about Europe. He's cleverly got himself knocked out of the Carabao Cup. Slap by the fish. Slap by the fish in Grimsby, who might well win the Carabao Cup.

30:27It may well be that that's not such a humiliation if Grimsby don't win it. But he's got these free weeks to work on his system, to work with his players, which is not something that any other team really in the top ten of the Premier League has. That is a huge edge for Manchester United, and there is every reason to believe, I think, that by the end of this season, Amarim's position will be a lot stronger than maybe it seemed like it might have done that night in Grimsby. Which is humanly remarkable in its own right. We're going to talk about Liverpool though. Aura gone, invincibility gone, mortal again.

31:00Problems, as we've said, all over the field. New players, old iconic leaders also suddenly looking dead-eyed on the field. Team honestly seemed like a super band, one of those super bands who sound amazing in their individual components, but make awful, awful, awful music. There's a band super heavy. I think it was Mick Jagger, Joss Stone. There was a Marley in there. Dave Stewart from the Eurythmics. They even had the guy from Slumdog Millionaire in there. I think they made like two songs and just stopped. It's kind of where Liverpool are at the moment. Four straight losses. Unbelievable. That first loss at Anfield in 20 games.

31:34First loss to United in 10 campaigns. fourth place, just four points off Arsenal though, which we'll get back to but they're so bad compared to how we imagine they would be when they were just snapping up massive player after massive player over the summer. The moments I almost felt sorry for them, Roar, and I'll just add in dot dot dot, almost the XG you mentioned in this game, Liverpool 3.20 Manchester United just 1.34 so where are you emotionally rationally, are you like four losses is this is a crisis, or you're like, look, if we put the majority of our chances away, the story would have been very different in this game.

32:15Yeah, it's hard as a fan not to watch them hit the post three times and think we were a bit unlucky there. I think that is a legitimate thing to think. And listening to Anaslott say, you know, it doesn't take much for our results to turn, I think is broadly true. You know, if you look at not just the fact that Gakpo misses that header yesterday, hits the post deliberately twice by accident once. Isak misses a chance. You know, Salah misses that chance. There are lots of opportunities for Liverpool to score. Similarly at Chelsea, you know, if Andy Robertson is half a second quicker getting back, then Esteval doesn't score the winner.

32:48They get a perfectly admirable point at Stamford Bridge. Same at Crystal Palace, who were the form team in Europe until Everton obviously undermined their confidence, right? Meat grinder Everton! Went up to the Hill Dickinson meat grinder, the big dick meat grinder. I don't know if that's a nice image, sorry but you can I think legitimately make the case that these are fine margins that Liverpool are not playing well and yet against Manchester United and it's Chelsea against Bristol Palace all of them not lead two teams in another world in an alternate reality where you are underwater and there's Wales on playing it's perfectly possible to imagine that those results turn out very differently.

33:38I think the flip side to that is the one that I find more convincing, which is that you could say just the same about all the games that Liverpool won, that if Hannibal Mejbri doesn't bafflingly handball the ball in the area in the 95th minute against Burnley, Liverpool don't win that. If the ball doesn't happen to ricochet out to Federico Chiesa against Bournemouth, they don't win that. Liverpool have been playing poorly all season. and what you're seeing now is that if you, as a major team, if you kind of trust two fine margins, that sometimes that will go in your favour and sometimes it won't.

34:10And it's a bit weird maybe that they won five or six games on the bounce and then they've lost four on the bounce. It's strange that it's been so kind of black and white. But the overall impression is that if Liverpool had got a draw yesterday, if they'd taken a point from Palace or from Chelsea, that would have been excusing a poor performance. And the issue is not the results, it's the performance that leads to them or makes them possible that's that's the issue so i mean ultimately uh the last four games have made you reconsider almost re-litigate uh exactly what happened in the in the first five games completely cast it in a different light and the you know you can't be hypothetical about history we talk about this all the time um on this show that you know if the plot against hitler had worked would the war have ended uh quicker we just don't know same thing here terrible analogy roger which means let's move on to what now for liverpool who ran away with the title last season we have to remind ourselves this they spent all that cash this summer um i'm shocked slash fascinated by just the number of liverpool fans not a huge amount but they're starting already you can see on posts um who are starting to crackle full-blown doubts of slot, which is just amazing to me.

35:25Last season actually was Klopp's title. Looking at a number of challenges, it is remarkable how quickly we flip emotionally in football. Yes, there's challenges on the field in every department. Yes, creating the new culture, fusing the new players is taking a lot of time. Kerkhez seems lost. Frimpong and Wurtz have been benched. We have an Eketike and Isaac starter problem. Salah seems no slower but mentally unrootless unclinical so what now for Slot Roar he's very honest the admitted post game it is going to be a true challenge Brentford Villa Crystal Palace Manchester City next what has to happen and in what order I think the first thing that Slot maybe has to has to consider is whether he sticks or twists effectively what he's been trying to do Stick.

36:20Stick or twist. Stick or twist. Rude or Dutch. So you mentioned Kürtel, and I think that's quite an interesting one, because I've been struck by how quickly he's moved Kürtel into the team. I would have thought, going into this season, that with given all the change, all of the churn at Liverpool, that you say, do you know what? We kind of need the back four to be familiar. So we're going to do Robertson, Van Dijk, Canate, Bradley, when he's fit. That's the back four. We'll build from there, and we will allow Milos Kürtel time to grow into the team. And Slott's not done that. Of all the players he's kind of stuck with the most, Kierkegaard is the one who's just been there.

36:58Despite the fact that Robertson has been Liverpool's left-back for seven, eight years, he's been one of the best left-backs the club's ever had. He just seems to have decided, actually, do you know what, Robertson is gone, Kierkegaard is in. So there's part of me that thinks, I can only answer this irrationally, Rod. There's part of me that thinks, stop trying to change stuff, go back to what you know works and build from there. so do a back four that you recognise do a midfield three not a midfield two, Sobbersly, Gravenberch please not Alexis McAllister just let Alexis McAllister rest put Jones in there, put Verts in there if you think he can play slightly deeper I'm sure he could, and then do Gakpo Stryker, Salah 4-3-3, you know it worked, get back to what worked for Liverpool last season.

37:39Bring Darwin back Bring Darwin back. I think the reason that Slott won't do that is the same reason he changed which was that I think that in the second half of last season, Slott looked at Liverpool and thought, we are winning games very narrowly. The opposition understand how to play us. We are winning it through individual talent, through moments of inspiration, through Mohamed Salah's incredible form. At some point, our luck is going to run out. We need to change, which is what explains the massive spend in the summer. So I think much more likely is that Slott says, all right, we need to change more.

38:12That's the issue here. I'd be quite happy, not quite happy, I would be happier losing games if it was with Florian Verts as the number 10, Izak up front with Ekitike, Salah maybe on the right wing, involved in some way because it's Mohamed Salah. But you were effectively saying, this is what we're going to be in a year's time. And we're learning that now. At the moment, what you have is kind of neither of those things and it's not working. So to me, and I'm not a manager and I don't like telling managers what I think they should do because I'm not qualified to say that, slot needs to choose. either commit to the refashioning of Liverpool or dial it back and start again.

38:52I think doing this thing where you're kind of doing half and half, it very obviously isn't working because the team isn't working. It's not the results. It's the fact that the team is not performing as they should. They don't look coherent. If you're going to lean into it, do it properly. Put Florian Verts back on the pitch. He's your future. Give him his chance. If not, you kind of have to go back to what you know worked for you last year and build from that. Jurgen Klopp picked an incredible week to take that podcast. Is it Diary of a CEO? You know, just hit that, which came out this morning, the worst possible time for like just a counter narrative to be out there in the media stream as Liverpool are floundering.

39:33And I want to say, as someone who quite honestly, for me, the only way this could be going better right now is if Big Ange was announced as the next Liverpool manager. At the same time, I'd say this, The season is still so bloody early. Four points is a nothing. We've already seen that. There is so much more football to come and just as Liverpool should not have been, it was retrospectively a mistake to crown them champions after five games. Should not be written off now. To the top, top, tippity-top of the table, Fulham nil, Arsenal Football Club won. First leg of this weekend's Kroenke, Shad Khan, doubleheader, Rams played and beat the Jaguars at Wembley yesterday.

40:12But Cromkey's Arsenal have been winning fugly in a season at the same time that has been one that Arsenal fans' dreams are made of. Your Premier League leaders rumbled in. They lost just once in their last 13 games. Yes, Martin Odegaard suffered a medial collateral ligament injury. Not expected to return until after the November international break, which is heartbreaking for a player that's really suffered with injuries recently. But this team has such depth in the squad, so many options and such an identity. One really built on pragmatism, efficiency. being hard to score on. It's like muscle and guile, assertion, there's craft.

40:48And this was the truth of this game. It was really a mechanical performance, one absent of true spark, true joy outside of Bakayosaka. Arsenal, that free-flowing football that made them such a neutral's joy in the second phase of the Arteta era. It's like they've attempted to stamp out all vulnerability rule. Lots of scrutiny on the focus of Jokeres. There's Sweden in all kinds of qualifying hurt for the World Cup. And here is it his ninth straight game for club or country. It all comes without a goal. We're almost in a strange place with him. There's a backlash to the backlash about him. A lot of analysts start to say, I like the work rate.

41:24I like the runs. Where are you? Despite his goallessness for the$74 million man, who didn't, to his credit, have a full preseason. But he was brought to win and win now. And he was brought to store goals. and he was brought to store goals in games like Fulham away, where it is tough because Fulham are good and you don't get that many chances and you kind of have to grind it out. That's where having a, what we used to call a fox in the box sort of striker, someone with this ridiculous goal record, that's where it was meant to make the difference. I think the reason there's a backlash to the backlash is because Arsenal are winning.

41:56I think ultimately it is defined by results. The conversation is led by the idea that if the team is winning, then whatever he's doing must be working. it is perfectly possible that Victor Jokeres could be playing exactly the same way with exactly the same goal return but Arsenal were shipping goals just, you know, giving away if they'd given away two chances two decent chances to Fulham Fulham put them away and then suddenly Jokeres is a problem I think Arteta would probably want him to be scoring more goals if I'm completely honest I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say a little bit of that will be teething problems, getting used to the new team the team learning to play with an out and out nine in a way that they haven't previously but at the same time he was brought as plug and play that's why they went for him and not for Cesco they looked at Cesco and thought maybe his ceiling's higher he's younger maybe in five years time we regret this but we want a striker who is ready to go now and I'd say in all honesty I think whether that whether Jokic has fulfilled that remit yet it's kind of tricky to say by the way you mentioned Fulham if they'd scored they were very feisty in this and they counted well with Jimenez and Wilson but the incredible part of Arsenal's play is the back line.

43:06They've conceded just three times in the league as it stands. Kept is at five clean sheets in eight games. They are just effective, so bloody effective, and mentality monsters in their own grim, kind of relentless way with set pieces. So it was, 58th minute off there, in eighth corner of the game, sack a pinpoint cross. Gabriel Flick on, tross hard, back post smashing home from close range. Seventh goal scored from a corner this season. Job done. The fans graciously able to welcome Emile Smith-Rowe back onto the field. And Arsene went back to the top of the table. Ten games in, as I said, just three goals conceded, which is an Arsenal record this deep.

43:44And incredibly, I think it's just one from open play. But they are almost the exact opposite of Manchester City. Trossard, unbelievably, I think their 10th Premier League goal scorer of the season, spreading their goals around. But their big striker, their Haaland, has not really found the goals yet. So we ask ourselves, is this different to the last three seasons? To me, it is. The injuries are the same, but the depth of the squad is a difference. The starters and the finishes of Arteta are magical, mentally tough. Yes, the memory-making quality of the football is truly diminished, but this is the kind of game Arsenal would have raw and did actually drop points in last year.

44:22Are we in a stage of Arsenal this season where the results are all that matters and all we should be judging them of? Yeah, I think in that sense, Arsenal are the zeitgeist Premier League team. they've worked out the two key ingredients to succeed in the Premier League. One is you need lots of players to throw into the meat grinder because they will get injured. There are so many games that fatigue will set in and the muscles will start to go. And the other is they've worked out that, in fact, they've led the way in this much more direct, much more set-piece style that is now defining the Premier League.

44:50They are the team that feel like they caught onto both of those waves either earliest or earlier than most. And so they're well equipped to kind of go one better than they have in the previous three seasons and win the lead this year. The two question marks, I guess, are does there come a point where the set pieces dry up as a source of goals at some point? Do you need... That's fascinating because they did last season. They did last season. They stopped scoring last year from set pieces relatively late on. And by that stage, the title had kind of gone, so it wasn't such a big deal. But they need that to happen because that's their way out of those kind of grinding nil-nil draws is to score a goal from a set piece.

45:31And that's perfectly valid. It's perfectly legitimate. There's no judgment. You're relying on that working. And the other one, they have no control over. And that's, does Erling Haaland keep scoring goals? That's the other question that Arsenal have to answer. It feels like what you have now is a title race between two distinct models. On the one hand, you've got this squad that's built with this incredible depth to withstand the Premier League's kind of war of attrition. And on the other, you just have Dolph Lundgren in Universal Soldier. God, is that what this season has been reducing? It's like the Lillipushians of Arsenal trying to keep the giant down, strapped down.

46:03Except that everybody involved is a giant. From wonder to woe. Nottingham Forest nil. Oh, Chelsea three. Farewell, Ange Posta Coglu. Before this game, we knew he was on the brink. A bit like MTV. That redemptive art we wished upon him when he arrived at Forest. Not his to be. No wins in seven games before this one. I mean, God, Forest, we'll talk about it, plummeted from dream-filled European contenders to just a meme stock in the blink of an eye. Here he played Chelsea, a team he'd never beaten, which he felt was a bit foreshadowing. Chelsea, yes, shone of the talents of Colpom for at least another six weeks.

46:43But before the game, God bless Ange, trying to get the battle fever on. He talked before the game so defiantly, actually hurt, I found it almost awkward. I'm a manager who, if you give me time, story always ends the same. and my previous clubs, it always ends with me and a trophy. Listening to him, it was honestly, it was like watching a bear be baited. I found it really difficult. Dropped Chris Wood, brought back a one-year. City ground bellowed. Morgan Gibbs-White tried to lead chance after chance front foot, but the game then settled into a pattern of kind of reckless buccaneering, casual possession.

47:17Two goals in three second-half minutes for Chelsea changed it, and ultimately the fate of Andrews Seel. two goals in three second half minutes and Neto deliriously at the heart of both of them creator and then finisher Q Forest fans good energy just flipping immediately into like an angst-filled fury the cameras zoomed onto Maranakis in the stands he looked like first like he wanted to burn his manager with the heat emitting from his eyeballs but then he left his seat after what he was saying the 10th set piece goal conceded under Big Ange they had Neto just dancing in front of the Forest fans It was ugly, ugly stuff.

47:54At the Ocalos, wrote in the MIB Discord, Maranakis left after 20 minutes of the second half in a home game. What an owner. At Ula Kev, wrote, not seeing Maranakis in his seat is terrifying. It's like seeing the broken electric T-Rex gates in Jurassic Park. We'll get back to it in one moment, the Forest story. I do want to talk about Chelsea for one second. Again, they lost the XG. They won 3-0, but 2.42 to Forest, 1.75 to Chelsea Football Club. They managed to keep up their record of getting another red card. It was Gusto who got his fifth Chelsea player to see red in their last six games, but they don't care.

48:36Competent away win, up to six, point of fourth. Todd Burley is$470 million Dodgers back in the World Series. One series win away from ending Major League Baseball's 24-year street without a repeat champion. and he's built another business model there that no one else can touch or match that kind of makes no sense to conventional thinkers and kind of repulses them. But it's winning. And by the way, over here, they talk about how it's, quote, destroying baseball in the process. Chelsea Football Club. Discuss. Yeah, I don't know whether I'd go quite as far as to say that Chelsea are destroying football, but they've definitely spotted loopholes.

49:12And is it working, Roch? That, I suppose, is the one question. So, yes, great result for Chelsea. probably need to stop players getting sent off. Unquestionably like a positive time for the club. You know, club world champions. I think they're paying the price for that, unfortunately, in terms of all the injuries they've sustained. It's like seeing the broken electric T-Rex gates in Jurassic Park. And so it was, Roar. Ange Postacoglu, it was hard to watch at the end, watching him walk out to the centre of the field completely alone. And within 19 minutes, word came out he'd been sacked. First ever Nottingham Forest managers have failed to get a win in their first eight games in charge.

49:47TNT Sports reported the awful story that he addressed his players in a home dressing room post-game, was then summoned to a meeting with poor former Arsenal director of football now at Forest Edge in a nearby corridor, and then he left for the parking lot. There's a chant roar, you're getting sacked in the morning. Do we need to update it to you're getting sacked within 19 minutes of the final whistle, Nick? You're getting sacked before the press conference. Do you think there's ever been a good meeting held in a corridor? If someone comes up to you and says, I want to have a meeting with you, it's in this corridor.

50:16Do you think that ends well? Quick word. Yeah, it felt really poignant. Funny if I was at Burnley on Saturday for Burnley's win against Leeds, and in the press room, obviously got the big TVs on showing the Forest game, and at the same time as TNT were flashing up, sort of news-breaking, they were showing footage of him on the pitch, applauding the fans. And it was obviously, I said to someone, is that happening live? Has he been sacked while he's outside on the pit? And they went, no, no, no, they're just showing it again. It happened a few minutes ago. But the fact that it was possible that they might have been showing it live, that he might have been sacked, you know, he was sacked while fans were still in the stadium.

51:00Yeah. It's extraordinary. A huge hook came on while he was clapping them from the centre circle and just yanked him off. Is he the first manager ever to beat the traffic? so you're saying it was considerate of them to find so quickly so in a way yeah they've done him a favor look and we don't want you to be manager anymore but if it's any help we kind of want you to get home quickly that's nice yeah it is fair i mean he's a record holder but not in a good way shortest tenure of any permanent manager i think you call him ang postacoglu is the bob bradley of ang postacoglu now by the way bob bradley's 85 days is a towering achievement compared to ang we will not see ang again in the premier league he's become Just, you know, almost one of the most surreal careers I've seen in the Premier League.

51:42Remember those first 10 games? Just unbelievable. Peerless dream football. The plummet, the fall. Still, the exclamation point Europa League win. That last game triumph when, again, it felt like he was right, we thought. The always second season proclamation come true. It was about confidence and self-belief. But, my God, to turn up here, the DOA failure, 39 days, no wins in eight. six defeats, 18 goal ships, scoring seven times, Feralty's both end of the field. And then this rule, the 19 minutes of the final whistle, cruel, incredibly cruel. Like doing that is classless to a large degree. I mean, I understand being a god of anger.

52:23I understand you need to vent and express fury and pin it on Ange. But you've got to ask, seriously, who would want to go there after that, seeing their predecessor humiliated like that? I mean, he answers Sean Dykes now. We know he's been announced while we are podcasting. But the incredible thing about this Nottingham Forest freefall is how self-inflicted it all was. Maranakis are now edgy beside him. You know, selecting Ange. It's like one of those rom-coms, how to lose a guy in 10 days, how to destroy your club in 39 days. Firing new now, successful, charismatic, popular. Bringing in the polar opposite man to the defensive counter-attacking style.

53:04not firing him during the international break when the new guy could have had a couple of weeks to get his feet under him. All I'll say is winning football cultures are hard enough, fragile enough, with alignment in good times, leadership, systems, recruitment, scouting, management tactics, squad depth. You throw in clearly like a blind ego on top of it all. The self-sabotagingly impossible nature of it all is what's cruelest. Yeah, I think you take it even further back, Rog. You take it back to the fact that the circumstances of Nuno sacking in the first place. They hadn't started the season brilliantly, but Nuno had taken them into Europe.

53:38Last season obviously ended a little bit of a disappointment. They wanted Champions League, nearly got Champions League, didn't quite make it. But they were back in Europe for the first time in a generation. Amazing. Nuno had done all of that. And then basically because of, I don't know, like a personality clash effectively or a kind of debate over, you know, who sits where in the hierarchy, he leaves. That in itself felt rash and short-sighted. that's compounded by a point in Posta Coddler which any idiot, including this idiot could have told you wouldn't work out well that's obvious and now they end up with Sean Dyche who is a manager cast basically in the Nuno mould it's been such a waste of time and Evangelos Marinacis' money, to be perfectly honest the one thing I think is really interesting and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out with the Forest fans over the next few months, few years, they have a lot to be thankful to Maranakis for.

54:36But there is a converse to empowering an owner that much, and that's that you're completely at the mercy of his whims. And I'm not sure that's great for any club, and in this case for Nottingham Forest. Yeah, it's an agony. It really, really is. Sean Dyche, former Forest youth player. I feel so terrible for the Forest fans you've nailed it one season you're soaring the next you're living out just dystopian ang nightmare goalless dreadful surreal football I mean it is it's that Joni Mitchell song don't always seem to know you don't know what you've got until it's gone I mean just cling on to those memories of last season when you dared to dream young listeners listening moral of this story is don't dream do not have dreams ever that's the only moral lesson that you can take from this right Rob?

55:26We got an email in one of the early editions of the Correspondent newsletter. Feel free to subscribe. Rory says, quite excellent, by the way, the loveliest read of my week. But go on. Saying, from a Forrest fan in the US, saying, I'm worried about being a Forrest fan now. I think it might end unhappily. And I was really, really like, don't be ridiculous. Come on, people have been spoiled. You'll be fine. What's the worst that can happen? Forrest will finish 10th. And now I'm a little bit, I sort of regret that answer, Rog. because Sean Dyche is a really good manager. He's perfectly competent. He will make Forrest difficult to beat.

56:00He will make the city ground a sort of intimidating proposition again. But he won't get them scoring loads of goals, I wouldn't have thought, despite the quality in that squad. Two managers now have looked at their summer business and thought, I don't really fancy playing these expensive signings that we've made, which suggests that maybe the signings themselves weren't that great. And Forrest are in a lead where there aren't really any weak teams. That's not a happy place to be. Remember, listeners, happiness is a trap. Game of the weekend. Crystal Palace 3, Bournemouth 3, Comfort Glasner versus Erola, coveted brains in a bottle manager, Classico.

56:38Oh, you've also got from an American POV, Chris Richards against Tyler Adams. Just that Sophie's Choice for all US fans. Both games between these two last season were goalless, but these are very different creatures we got to watch. the alchemically regenerated Bournemouth, surging Palace, two of the stories of this still yet young season. This one, unironically, was like an advert for the best league in the world right now. From the jump, seventh minute from a corner, ball flick, back post, 19-year-old French striker, Elie Kruppi, in his first start replacing Evan Nielsen out for a calf injury, headed into an open net.

57:14I think it was Bournemouth's first goal from a corner this season. And the South Coast Joy turned up to 11, and 38th minute when he did it again. Anton Semenyo, who Palace just could not live with in the first 45 minutes, charged down the left, slung one across the face of the goal, deflected into the path again. Kruppi slapped it past Dean Henderson, 2-0. Bournemouth fleetingly, wondrously top of the league in that moment, Roar. Kruppi joined the Cherries this summer, finished the season as, I think, the second tier in France's leading scorer with Lorient. Is he just another example of the Cherries?

57:48quite incredible crevice-searching boutique recruitment. Yeah, it helps that Bill Folio, I think, is involved with Laurie on, isn't he? The owner. There is a connection there between the clubs. But yeah, Bournemouth have been shown themselves masters of this. And it's again, this is really boring. It's not a great viral clip, Rog. But it's systems and processes. That's what leads to success. Richard Hughes, the director of football, leaves for Liverpool. But that doesn't mean that all of the institutional knowledge goes with him. Bournemouth have people who are working in that system, in that front office, effectively.

58:18who know where the players are. They have lists of replacements for any player they might lose. They have players that they want to sign because they think their profiles will fit that team, that football, that manager. They're a really well-run club, and really well-run clubs do things like potentially go top of the lead despite only having a stadium that holds 11 ,000 people. Technocracy. It's why we watch. It was astonishing to witness. Palace conceding their first two first-half goals of the season, trailing for the first time this season. at the interval. But whenever Oliver Glasner is serving up at halftime, we all need a shot of it in our life because Palace came out reborn.

58:54Just that mentality that Glasner's inculcated is really unbowing. Second half, we saw it. Thanks in large part to three names, one man, Jean-Philippe Mateta, a gent who coming in this one, I mean, having best week ever, full international debut for France against Azerbaijan, age 28. Everyone laughed when he said it was his dream. Went and scored his first goal for his country three days later against Iceland. Best of times for this late-breaking career wonder. First half, yes, he'd squandered at least three precious chances, but second half, he was really just so dominant. 64th minute, Daniel Munoz lashed one across the face of the Bournemouth goal.

59:31Mateta went all French backboards, steered at home. 69th minute, nice. Munoz to Mateta again. This time, JPM sliding home full stretch to the back post, 2-2. I think fifth and sixth goals of the season for Mateta, he wasn't done. his movement rule, his pace, the runs he makes, his sustainly breaking potency in his career. It's incredible, honestly. I find it really inspirational. Even the way he treats corner flags like his own personal stress balls. Really striking story of the season. Yeah, an incredible story. I think there were times when Palace thought they'd kind of bought him as an option.

1:00:04He hadn't exactly torn up the Bundesliga previously. There were a lot of doubts over him initially when he first arrived. The way that he plays, the way that he causes defences so many problems. There's something quite old-fashioned about Mateta, I think, and that's his competitive edge. He's not the sort of striker that players are used to playing, and they find it incredibly difficult to deal with him. Yeah, God bless. Bournemouth went ahead late. 89th minute, Ryan Christie, back from injury, punched home his first of the season. 3-2 Bournemouth, delirium again, but already over-served. This game wobbled right back to the bar for one last drink.

1:00:4395th minute, Palace corner. Bafode Diakite fancied himself in a bit of gripple grapple with Mark Gahy. Pair tumbled to the floor. Vaude penalty, slightly questionable, but big picture. Morrely felt right to see Jean-Philippe Mateta pull up and just put it low to the right. 3-3. Snarling South London bear pit that Selhurst Park exploded. Mateta, God bless, in the 100th minute missed the goal, gaping from close range. somehow blazed over, possibly as early, easiest chance of the whole game, Raw. But bloody hell, by the end of it, breathless. We all needed to change our pants, whether you were palace, cherry or neutral.

1:01:18It is incredible, Raw. I needed a cigarette and I don't even smoke. Chess, ballet, MMA, all on display. It's why we love football. It's why I love the Premier League. We are into October now, Raw. Is there enough sample size to say? These are not just cuddly underdogs in like an early season heater that will burn off. These are legitimately excellent football teams and we'll be reckoned with all season. Yeah, absolutely, Rog. There's no reason to believe that Bournemouth in particular will go away anytime soon. I suppose with Palace, you might question whether the run in Europe could cost them in terms of energy.

1:01:53But as a team, as a unit, as a kind of proposition, they are outstanding football teams, both of them. They're not to be taken lightly. They're not to be judged by historical standards. they are top 10 sides more than capable of getting into Europe in both cases. Palace are obviously already there Bournemouth came close last year and I think in Glasner and Iriola they maybe have the two best performing managers in the country and that is not a bad thing to have. Pound for pound there is no doubt. God bless Palace back in Europe this Thursday at a game I hope to be at. They play Arsenal on Sunday I'll just say up the Palace and mean it 2 North London, Tottenham 1 Aston Villa too.

1:02:35Thomas Frank, stealthily positive start to his Spurs tenure, but the schedule at the same time we knew had been kind of kind. This game felt like the moment crap was about to get serious. Enter Unai Emery's rhythm-seeking Villa. Tottenham have enjoyed fast starts under Thomas Frank. It's what he does, and inside five minutes, it went 1-0 up. Arsenal, not the only team in North London who were good at the corners. A recycled corner scrapped by Kudis, thumped back by Pelina to his defensive shield. Partner, Rodrigo Bentancourt, six-time Thomas Franksider scored in the opening five minutes of a Premier League game.

1:03:10That's what he does. Spurs, dot, dot, dot, scored too early. They dropped their guard. Villa scored off their only two shots on target, but they were both excellent. Morgan Rodgers barely touched the ball, played a 1-2 off a defender, then just thrashed home from 25 yards, dipping the ball over Vicario. First goal in 20 games for Rodgers. God bless. It became really mistake-filled for Spurs. Xavi Simons, not effective. Teleno, Udeber, not really impacting play. But we knew none of the last 20 meetings between these two teams. This is incredible. It ended in the draw. We knew there'd be a winner.

1:03:4678th minute. A stunning goal rule. Born of each moment of beauty being one-upped almost by the next. I think it was Matty Cash's initial ball. Stunning. Luca Dignes take even better. Buendia, on as a substitute, impact, Amidia, his finish was absolutely chef's kiss. But all of them upstaged, I think, by the way, Morgan Rogers got his bum out of the way of the shot. Yeah, that's the key moment in the entire move. Removing the bum is a crucial skill set. Is that watching Virgil van Dijk? It was like watching Virgil, but that's true, actually. And attacking Virgil van Dijk may be more effective. Bumming the ball.

1:04:21That's a DVD I'd buy. Bumming the ball with Virgil van Dijk. Sorry, keep going. But it does feel as though kind of a statement result, not so much for Spurs, but for Villa, who had that difficult start to the season, who seemed to be kind of almost talking themselves into a crisis. And now all of a sudden, things look rosy again for Unai Emery. It's a reminder of why the club felt so confident, felt so full of belief just while he was there. Because you have a manager who can do things like this. I mean, five straight wins now for Unai Emery's Aston Villa. They are back. Spurs tried to summon a shop Colin Mouane marked his Premier League debut by coming on and whiffing entirely with the goal at his mercy.

1:04:59They had a chance to go second here, but blew that chance. Incredibly, their problems at home, which began last season, continue under Frank. These statistics are amazing. They've won, I think, just three of their last 18, taken just four points at home this season. The one win was against Burnley, right? Incredibly, dropped a league-leading 19 points from winning positions at home. Home crap, home raw. How does that happen? I don't know. It's an interesting thing. And as you say, it's kind of, it's so deep-rooted now that you have to assume it's a pattern, it's not coincidence. Whether it's that they struggle to take the initiative in games and they may be best if they're reacting.

1:05:38Obviously, you know, the tail end of last season was slightly odd. Ange would tell you, and he's now got time to, that they were prioritising the Europa League. I think Frank's made quite a curious start as Spurs manager. We are, as a podcast, pro-Thomas Frank and the causes of Thomas Frank. crotch everyone knows that their performances haven't been especially convincing at the tottenham hotspur stadium there's a little bit of kind of disgruntlement i think about the style they were booed off that's quite a lot of disgruntlement to me spurs are kind of indicative of where the league is i've got to admit that they are capable of being really good of beating anyone that they play they can go to manchester city and win convincingly but they're also in a division where everyone's quite evenly matched you can say the same thing about lots and lots of teams and if you look at the table as things stand between Everton in 12th and Bournemouth in third there's four points that's not very many and I think Spurs are kind of caught in that that they are good they have got reason to believe to hope that they might be able to you know have a decent run in the Champions League that they can take some take some famous victories particularly on the road, I guess, at the moment, that they can challenge the true elite of the league on a game-by-game basis.

1:06:51But every week, they're facing a team that's roughly as good as them, and that means things are going to be volatile. In other games, Brighton 2, Newcastle 1. And amidst the perpetual youth revolution that burns bright on the South Coast, 93-year-old Danny Welbeck is as reliable as father time. 34-year-old rang up five seasons at Brighton. by delivering glory here. It's incredible. Needs five more goals to top the number he scored in his 20s, which is magical. Two goals, both moments of true quality. The first, a delicate dink, composed finish, delivered the three magnificent points for Brighton.

1:07:29Third win of the campaign. Oddly, all have come against just the Champions League competitors. And I do want to mention, though, Newcastle's goal. If you've not seen it, find it. Volta Marda. I mean, just Shohei Ohtani could never. watching what he does. He let the ball across his body, flicks it into the bottom corner with the outside of his heel. It's like seeing a giant German transform himself, essentially into Richard Flatley of the Lord of the Dance. Michael. I'm watching Flatley. Is that who he is, Michael? Well, you know, either of the Flatley brothers. Is it five goals in seven games now that he's scored?

1:08:04I do think about narrative, Raw, and I think about reality in football because how we laughed this summer when Newcastle couldn't keep Alexander Izac, Doom, and then tried to sign essentially a tribe of replacements, Sheshko, Hugo Eketike, Jokeres, all coveted, none of them snared. Could it be they found the best of all? He's been really good, Valtomar. He's an interesting player to watch. He's a bit different to basically anybody I can really think of. He's sort of quick because he covers a lot of ground without being quick. He's very good in the air, as you'd maybe expect, but also kind of not expect because often players of that height aren't that good in the air.

1:08:44He's physical without being kind of powerful and he's lent them a real edge. And obviously they've still got Johan Wissler to come back as another attacking option but it does feel as though Valtomar has slotted into that Newcastle team a little bit more easily than Jokeres at Arsenal or Isaac at Liverpool or even Cesco at Manchester United. You know, he's made it look like if you get the right player in the right place it can be kind of seamless. Burnley 2-0. Leeds nil. the game you're at God bless Burnley now beating both the teams who came up with them and have made the case I've got to say the lead's got a worrying trait of playing great against the big teams and then playing down against the ones that they kind of need to glean the points from here 87 year old Kyle Walker was instrumental in both games dude will not go gentle into that good night that first cross that he delivered for Leslie Hugo Chukwu was stunning as was the second goal that Burnley scored on a on a Walker inspired counter finished emphatically by Ugo Chukwu's teammates since his early team's Wren, Loon, Chauna, who Hulk smashed the ball home for the backbreaker.

1:09:49Incredibly, this is the first time that young duo have been on the winning side together since beating Merenac in May 2022, when Desiree Dwey and Matthias Tell were leading the line. Their journey since, wandering via Lazio and Chelsea to, of all places, Burnley. Raw, they are fascinating glimpses into the elite depth of stockpiling of talent that currently exists in our Premier League. The reason I went to Burnley Leeds was for the Observer to write a piece on the fact that none of the promoted sides this season look like they're about to just sort of disappear from the division without a fight.

1:10:23They all look like they're going to make a fist of it. None of them are in the bottom three. Sunderland are seventh, which is astonishing. Leeds have had positive results. I agree with you completely that they are good against the better teams and they're a little bit sort of slapdash against the teams they need to be beating. What I would say in defence of my sort of hometown club that I don't support is Leeds missed about five sitters. They really should have scored two or three fairly simple goals, to be honest. Jack Harrison with a couple. Aronson had one. DCL was involved, I think, at one point.

1:10:57There were a few. Jadon Bogle should have scored. there were a lot of chances that Leeds made but Burnley do have class they've got class, they've got grit, they've got experience Udichuk who was outstanding at Old Trafford a few weeks ago where I saw Burnley as well Chown is a real kind of really explosive kind of dynamic presence off the bench, the one that I think speaks volumes though is one you've not mentioned Rog, Florentino Luis the defensive midfielder who for a long time was like the crown jewel of Benfica's academy and now plays for Burnley and that tells you everything you need to know about the level of the Premier League Sunderland 2, Wolves nil you mentioned Sunderland but we'll start with Wolves quickly winless remaining, clean sheetless they are worse honestly than Jordan Hudson's boyfriend here, Sunderland rendered them toothless in the most delirious way Black Cats are, you said this 7th place, 4 wins in 8 games sizzling, I love all the statistics no side won more home points in Sunderland than a Premier League 10 from a possible 12 at the stadium Here's the best one.

1:11:59Sutherland have already bettered Southampton's total points tally from last campaign. And they played 30 games less. Testing fixtures at Chelsea and at home to Everton. Well, three points. And Arsenal away. I'd say away. The lads. West Ham and Brentford play tonight. Nuno Revenge Tour rolls on. First game at home. So we close with Sy. Oh, Manchester City 2. Everton 0. Two words. We tried in the Jack Grealish Memorial Derby. St. Jack, I hate this rule, not able to play against his parent club because of loan rules. But despite that, Everton arrived. Yes, they knew they hadn't won at City. This is incredible.

1:12:3815 bloody years. But the Palace victory before the break and the great, incredible Jordan Pickford signing a four year contract at the club. He declared the dark days are over, which, God, I just I was like, oh, my God, we feel dangerous, which is always a trap. And I, for one, am ready to be hurt again. Lear history showing up first half. Everton so game. We silenced the Etihad. Iliadai. We put on Instagram some of his highlights from this game. It was amazing. It felt like he was on a one-man mission to show Manchester City that he should sign from them, which was a bit unnerving, to be candid.

1:13:16Kept setting up chances for Beto. God bless you, Beto. Beto just Beto'd them. What else did we expect? We had the initiative. City rumbled. No Rodri for another couple of games. Kind of shot on sight, which was odd to watch also. City ultimately, I wrote pre-game, that this match was about the philosophers' question, that philosophers have agonised over for centuries. How many tiny shimpads does it take to stymie Erling Haaland? That normally precedes unfortunate events. Second half, two Haaland goals in five minutes put us to the sword. First, a dunk of a header. Second, rerouting a Savino cutback.

1:13:54Incredible. These are real numbers. 23 strikes. 23. 23 in 13 games for club and country. Also incredible. He scored City's last seven goals. Scorer before him was Maxime Esté, the Burnley defender, who scored two own goals. Pep said after the game, lack of goals for more places is a concern. Haaland has netted, I think, 13 of City's 17 this season. and I'm disappointed he didn't score four or five, but chances from Savino, Doku, Reinders, they have to score. They have to do it. Otherwise, we can't do what we want to do. Does it matter, Roar, that more City players are not scoring? I mean, ultimately, he came on our show.

1:14:37He said, what I do is score goals. That is my job. He's so bloody dominant. I don't like to be hyperbolic, but what he's doing is without paralleling human history. Yeah, it feels like Guardiola's caught in quite an uneasy position for him. because he has this weapon that nobody can stop, that works every single time. And look, that's obviously a dangerous position to be in, like logically, just what if Haaland gets injured? I think that will be Dwadiola's main concern. Like what happens if this guy is not there? But while he is there, it makes complete sense for the team to be built around him, to service him, to get the best out of him.

1:15:15Pep might not like that, but that is the most effective thing to do, I think. and the numbers he's putting up at the moment you kind of just have to run with it because I don't see there is no more effective way of staying in the title race it sounds silly to say it but I do genuinely believe at the moment and you know things change in the Premier League all the time but it does look like you have these two paradigms of victory one is Arsenal saying if we have the most best players we should be able to endure this season and the other is Pep Guardiola saying have you seen my large Norwegian? It is my kids played basketball when they were like really young and when you do there's always at 11 someone who's gone through puberty and is 6 foot 5 playing against 4 foot 2 kids and that's what it's like watching Haaland he is that player, that obliteration this statistic is mind blowing there's only been 3 instances of a player reaching double figures in the Premier League by the 8th game of the season all 3 of them are earning Haaland and he just did it again 25-26 God bless Everton We are so admirable mentally, but we are so obviously flawed.

1:16:20We have no fullback on either side. We have no real striker, and I love Beto, but we battle on despite those obvious limitations, which is why I watch, and I love it. I mean, that's going to be our way until January. By the way, Manchester City are also amazing. Donnarumma, four clean sheets in his seven City games. Poor James Trafford. But with Donnarumma at the back and Haaland at the front, they remind me, not since the San Antonio Spurs of David Robinson and Tim Duncan has a team dominated and relied upon two big men more. And it is remarkable to watch. Everton fans, God bless, see the two men who try to take over the club.

1:16:58That's our joy. John Texter facing a lawsuit that 97 million is owed to two investors. Most importantly, Josh Wanda, the 777 leader, came so close to taking over our team. Manu, at the time, I had people call me up who I consider to be the worst person in the world called me up and said, Josh Wanda, no, he's the worst person in the world. He is the man who once brought stakes in seven football clubs in seven countries, tried to make Everton number eight, just been charged with wire fraud, security fraud, conspiracy to commit fraud in New York City, faces jail time. Essentially, it sounds like a Ponzi scheme surprise.

1:17:34All I'll say is no matter what happens this season, Raw, we're winners because of the dark road not taken in our hour of complete desperation and Godspeed. Let's have happier convo. with closing from a letter from a GFOP. I love this. From Danny Jones in Kayenta, Arizona. Dear Rog and Rory, I'm a Liverpool supporter. You have our commiserations. My wife and I decided to make the pilgrimage to Anfield to celebrate my birthday. Liverpool beat Manchester City 1-0. That doesn't sound right. On a second half goal by Mo Salah. Also doesn't sound right. This must have been a long time ago. Little did we know at the time, but it would be Klopp's last Premier League win over Pep.

1:18:13After our first successful football trip, we decided to expand our European adventures by going on five more trips over the past three years. My wife has enjoyed seeing the most iconic sights such as the Milan Cathedral, the Colosseum, the Eiffel Tower, the Gran Via and Michelangelo's David. The highlights of these trips for me were San Siro, the Olympico, the Parc de France, the Bernabeu and the Artemio Franci. My favourite lead to watch is Serie B, the Italian second division. This is my kind of guy. I was watching a match a few years ago. During the pre-game build-up, the matchday commentator put out the challenge that any groundhopper worth his salt will one day in their life make it to the Stadio Pierluigi Penzo.

1:18:50We will be travelling to Venice in November to fulfil this mandate. Thanks so much to you both for planting the seed for my wife and I to become groundhoppers. Rog for his Visit Britain travel series and Rory for his European Nights podcasts. My question is, what football ground that you have not visited yet would be at the top of your list to see a match at? Courage, Danny Jones. Oh, what an incredible letter, Danny Jones. By the way, it's amazing the journeys, the memories that the football and our silly little suboptimal podcast have brought into your life. You have an incredible partner, by the way, Danny Jones.

1:19:22But Raw, you better travel than me. So have at it. The most iconic one that I've never been to is the Azteca. That would be the big one that's right on the top of my list. I think more realistic, slightly closer to home, two are in Spain, one's in Italy. Real Betis. I've never seen a damn at Real Betis. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I would love to. I've been to Sevilla, but I've not been to Betis. To see Real Betis play Sevilla would just be unbelievable. Athletic Bilbao. I've been to Bilbao as it's an amazing city. I've never seen a game at San Mames, the new one. And I'd like to go there. And the other one's a little bit more left field, but the Luigi Ferraris, which is where Genoa and Sampdoria play in Genoa, which is one of those grounds that was on TV a lot as a kid because Sampdoria were really good.

1:20:12and it kind of has this, it's a very English looking ground with a very Italian kind of aesthetic and I really like that vibe. I've done all of the other major Italian grounds, I think, but I've never done Genoa. So that would be the other one. So Bettis, Bilbao, Genoa. God bless, you are such, what a life, what a life, Rory Smith. For me, which stadium that I have not seen a game at would I most like to go to is an easy answer. and I'm about to go there. So it is Everton's new home, Hill Dickinson, that theatre at Big Dick Energy Dreams. I am putting that right next weekend. I'm going to be going to watch Spurs stuff us from the South Stand, that steep-sided wonder.

1:20:57So the place after next week that I've always wanted to go to and I actually think about it a lot, I dream about it a lot. It's La Bombonero, Boca Juniors, to see them play River Plate, watching that chocolate box bounce would be the stuff of life, honestly. And after the World Cup, to be candid, that is the dream for me, to go with all of my kids, take that time to go and drink all the Malbec, eat all the steak. I'll say that vision, that's the vision that keeps me going on the daily. Yeah, the Bominera is quite special. You will enjoy that, I would say. They're all, yeah, I've been to River as well, to the Monumental.

1:21:33That's really good. They're all worth visiting. God bless. That was a pat on the head from Roar and a humble brag to close. Yeah. I'm here to make you feel better. I'm working through my pain. It's quite cathartic talking about it. I know. It's the only way, Bob. Get it out. Get it out. Get it out. Danny, send us your post or we'll send you the coveted Men in Blazers patch. Keep sending your letters, your questions, your ravens for Roary and me. Meninblazers at gmail.com. You can also hit us in Discord. We'll try and answer as many as we can. And that is it for today. We're off to DC tomorrow.

1:22:09God bless then. England on Wednesday. We're filming with Adam Wharton, which I can't wait for. Jordan Pickford and more. We'll be live, I hope, together, next week in the flesh in Liverpool. So huge thanks to you, you Crown Prince of Harrogate. I'll see you for European nights, Rog. God bless. This is Rog sending you your big love. Let's not take a second of watching football together for granted and courage.

1:22:38Thank you.