Manchester City topples Arsenal in epic clash, Rayan Cherki is making football fun again, and typical heartbreak for Spurs and Everton: Men in Blazers 04/20/26

20:45Roger Bennett:I'm not sure that even he's capable of being quite as canny, quite as kind of smart, quite as snide when necessary, or even quite as charismatic, I think, as Rodri and Bernardo. They've been through it all so often before. and in those 20 minutes between Haaland's goal and the final whistle, what you need more than anything is that kind of know-how, knowledge, canniness to carry you over the line. Yeah, that moment late on when Havertz broke free into space and it was Bernardo Silva like a tiny little footballing terrier closing him down, somehow snuck the ball away and then celebrated. He knew in that moment too, but celebrated as if he had scored a goal in many ways.

21:31I mean, what he'd just done had affected the scoreline as if he had. And you saw that 31 years of age, everything he's won Raw still wants more in every regard. It's that kind of hunger. It's that kind of desire that Pep's inculcated in this team. And I want to talk about that in one second. But Arsenal's response, it was fight or flight time. there was a lot of fight there's a lot of time to get a goal we had Gabrielle ripping Harland's shirt the great GFOP Patricia Lee who monitors Pep's fashion and understands it in a deep way she marvelled about the precise pattern that Gabrielle was able to rip these are her words Shedman was able to cut a precise asymmetrical waterfall sleeve with one surgical tug while moving at high speed you can tell he's been practising his tailoring for a long time details

22:21Roger Bennett:What was amazing was that he managed to rip the undergarment rather than the shirt. That is a really intimate bit of shirt pulling, I would say. If your hand is sort of insy-wincy spided up Erling Haaland's back and grabbed hold of the undershirt, then you're really devoted to your craft. I mean, it's an agony and an anger and a frustration that he's taking out. Haaland, I've got to say, the upticks of what he did, putting that shirt back on with a back ripped out, I don't care. You've ripped my shirt. I'm still wearing it. Did it again. There was Gabriel hitting the woodwork with a header off a set piece.

22:55And then you had Gabriel and Haaland three, square it up, doing that silly deer rutting kind of headbutt thing that only footballers do. Interestingly enough, Haaland could have gone down easily and been like a bit of a heel here. It was an incredible decision that he's like, I've conquered you. I don't even need to do the dark thing. I'm going to let you stay on. I'm going to let you live. I'm going to let you be tortured by me again and again and again. If you actually watch the fight that ensued, you had the head rutting and then the argy-bargy ritual of footballers all closing in without throwing a punch.

23:29Haaland actually walks away calmly, literally lets his hair down, which is just an amazing symbol. You are not in my head. This is a one-sided fight. I am in your head and I'm going to let you live with that in agony.

23:44Roger Bennett:That's a nice interpretation, Rog. I wonder whether Erling Haaland just assumed that the referee would send off Gabriel for trying to headbutt someone which is the traditional punishment for that offence I was really surprised that nobody thought that's not great it was staggering to me I think you might be reading a bit too much into it that's not the first time I'm really baffled that Gabriel didn't get sent off I know you can make the case that it's just a little movement it's not a proper headbutt but everything we've been taught about football for the last 10, 15, 20 years is that if you do that, you see a red card.

24:18Roger Bennett:I have no idea why he did not. Yeah, but everything about football means you have to complete the act. Haaland has to fall down as if he's been hit by an oak tree falling from a grain. He has to writhe in agony. We have to complete the optics at the moment. If you do not do that, you are giving the freedom to a man who should be condemned. To be overly serious about your point, Rog. Yeah. Haaland shouldn't have to go down for it. The offense is still the same. He shouldn't have to go down. I know, but football has rhythm and rhythm. We had Alan Shearer on the show on Friday night, and we showed a clip of a fight he had with Roy Keane, where Roy Keane, they had a little push.

24:54Shearer walks off. Roy Keane picks a ball up, flings it against the back, and not actually that hard, flings it, tosses it against the back of Alan Shearer's head. What was weird for me, just like when you watch football and you're used to a certain kind of cross or the goalkeeper doing a certain kind of, like, what was weird to me? Alan Shearer just let the ball bounce off the back of his head and walked off. Footballers now, you're conditioned to them doing what, Ruk? Just falling down as if they'd been absolutely poleaxed by a sledgehammer.

25:19Roger Bennett:As soon as something happens, their instinct is to fall over. And you see occasionally you'll get like, there's that meme of a referee putting his hand on a player's back and the player collapsing. Like they know that any like, any physical contact, the cue is just go down straight away and see what happens. That shouldn't have to be the case. Elite footballers, their molecules feel, touch and pain just far more, just far more sensitively. us mere human beings. They're actually more sensitive than we are. They've just got a greater range of emotion. Thank you. It's all true, by the way. Carl, in our Discord, said it was like a beautiful scene from Heated Rivalry.

25:52Oh, make it happen, Netflix. It was really seasoned on the edge time. Arsall emptied the bench, interestingly enough. No Max Dowman. Best they could do was Trossard swinging across exquisitely, straight into the Kenny Loggins Danger Zone, headed agonisingly and I think disappointingly, to be candid, by Havre The gap could have been 12 points a couple of weeks ago. It's now three. City can go top on Wednesday if, or when really, they beat Burnley. And the game ended with City fans bellowing City, tearing cockneys apart again. Scorsese and Sinema at the final. Wesleyan Holland whipping off his top, strutting around, nipples out, triumphant to the sound of Avicii.

26:34Manchester City in April Raw. What a form. one defeat in 20 and beaten in 10 looking for their fifth title in six season charges pending and all after Wednesday both teams will have five games left to play. In January City won one Premier League game they seemed out on their feet they seemed stalling. I've just left marvelling at Pep Guardiola again. No one in football knows better how to capture the focus of the collective how to fire up the belief how to have the ability to take a squad and make them believe they can still smite all comers and peak more than anything raw to peak at the right time.

27:13First player he hugged at the final whistle, it was Bernardo Silva, as you say. He's won it all. He's seen it all. The heart and desire he showed, that's what's so critical. That's what Pep does. He maintains that hunger. He maintains that desire. He maintains that belief. And that's what he's inculcated in this City squad that I marvel at.

27:33Roger Bennett:Yeah, I think what you've seen of the last month certainly is a team that just has like a muscle memory and instinctive ability to think okay this is the this is the run-in this is the time that the pressure rises we respond in this way that this is it kind of brings the best out of Man City brings the best out of Guardiola brings the best out of his players there is a what everyone calls a culture there I think that's what that's what they're benefiting from they know that in April and May you put your foot down and you try and win everything you can and it's that that makes them I think although not with the bookmakers not with the super computers, the predicting models.

28:07Roger Bennett:I don't think City are favourites. I think Arsenal are still favourites. But just any sort of semblance of knowledge of how this plays out would make you think that City are... This is the position they want to be in. It's very hard to believe they won't beat Burnley on Wednesday night. They then obviously have an FA Cup semi-final, so Arsenal have a free hit of a weekend. City will play their game in hand against Palace at some point. The most fascinating thing for me about this now, Rog, is it's a shootout. You're kind of conditioned with title deciders to think that one team goes into the game with control of the title race.

28:38Roger Bennett:And if they lose, then the other team comes out of the game with control of the title race. But this is a really weird situation because they are effectively both in control. It will come down to, one, who can win more of their games. And if they both win all of their games or both get the same amount of points, it comes down to who can score the most goals. And that is really, if I'm completely honest, that is not a bad way to spend the last five games of the season. Seeing which of the two best teams in the league can score the most goals. that's fun. I mean, it's a delirious season. We are blessed.

29:07The top of the table, the race for the Champions League places, the race for all the European places. We'll get to the relegation zone in a minute, Spurs fans. I mean, also to be clear, I want to note, this was not a bad performance. This was actually a brave performance. Timber a miss, massive miss. Saka, obviously a miss. Does beg the question, when you can see Arsenal play front foot football, as they did, or tried to do for large spas yesterday, why have they neglected to do so? I almost preferred risk mitigation, emphasising the negative over the past couple of months. My Arsenal supporter friend Michael Cohen, I spoke to him last night and he's like, we didn't lose a title against City.

29:44We lost it over the past couple of months. And that, he said, feels really, really haunting. But I am old enough to remember talk of the quadruple. And now this back-to-back defeats in a league for the first time in two and a half years. all comps. Arteta's lost four consecutive games in domestic league and cup for the very first time. It's very four weddings and a funeral moment feeling now. You know, if Pep can peak at the right time, Mikel almost has the opposite trajectory mastered. Arsenal have now lost four of the last six. They've only lost twice of their previous 46. And I've always thought, and I've talked a lot about how I hoped, I really did hope, that Arsenal's season would be like an epic Greek poem.

30:23I imagine it would be like Homer's odyssey, like just this march through challenge after challenge and then finally experiencing glory. The more it goes on, Roar, it is feeling like, I mean, it is feeling like an epic, but it's more like Icarus just strapping on those quadruple wax wings and heading towards the sun. But it's not over yet. Your point is pretty important that we make here. It's not over yet, is it?

30:45Roger Bennett:No, not at all. And Arsenal can still influence it. I think if you look at the running, you'd probably say Arsenal's games are a little bit easier. City still have to go to Everton, they still have to go to Bournemouth. Those are, I think, the two most challenging games for either team. Arsenal do have to play West Ham with, I think, three games to go. West Ham, I suspect, won't be safe at that stage. So that makes that a bit of a banana skin as well. It's absolutely not over, but you're quite right, and Michael Cohen is quite right, Rog, that what I think will hurt Arsenal the most is not that they lost at City in a game of really fine margins where they played perfectly well and it just went against them.

31:20Roger Bennett:is that that game meant so much. That game should not have been all or nothing because over the last, I'd say, four months, Arsenal have had plenty of opportunities to put daylight between themselves, Arsene Wenger's daylight rule, between themselves and Manchester City and they have taken none of them. And obviously that culminates in losing to Bournemouth. But the combined effect is that as much as Guardiola has crafted this team, this City team, to take advantage, they've only been able to do so because Arsenal have let them back in again and again and again and that one will really sting. I'd say it was incredible to be in Tampa on Friday to meet so many Arsenal fans ahead of the Premier League live there which we kicked off with a beautiful show with Alan Shearer leading the guests and you can find that on our YouTube and to remind us to listeners in Philadelphia the great city of and also Dallas we're headed your way first May 12th, very, very special show at Franklin Music Hall.

32:23And then we go to Dallas, May 20th, for our World Cup countdown tour. That'll be 22 days out live from the Longhorn Ballroom, which looks amazing. This recent run of live shows across our nation in the run-up to the World Cup has been one of the most positive, joyous, life-affirming experiences of my career. Being with you, talking football, getting to meet you, share a pint with you. Grab your tickets for both of the shows at the links below. and we all can't wait to be with you. Slightly less excited about Into the Darkness. Everton 1, Liverpool 2. Less a game of football, more a 111-minute reminder of Eduardo Galeano's poetic words that football is a pleasure that hurts, which I used as the epigraph for my World Cup book.

33:10But let's go back to the beginning. It was strange going into this, Roar. I mean, Everton had the sense of aspiration, the sense of not just hope, but expectation, which I'm not used to when we clattered into the first ever Merseyside derby at the shiny Newcastle Hill Dicko. We're hunting a European place, we were told, and there was so much blue smoke over the city before kickoff. Liverpool, in contrast, in disarray, in misaligned chaos. You know, my kids, one of my kids texted me and said, Dad, there's nothing better to do in the run-up here than to put the word Copites into Twitter. But the truth is, Roar, the Derby, I'm just conditioned for pain.

33:51I am, I am, I am. I went to bed on Saturday night and I dreamed over and over and repeated the Origi goal the whole time going into this. Nothing worse, by the way, than a goal where it starts with a shot woefully mishit and your own fans go, as if the danger's over seconds before conceding. That makes my throat constrict. the memory hits that hard. Really a sense of helplessness, of fate, of that you can't escape who you are. And this derby was all a stranger because like back in the 70s and 80s, when I was a kid, listeners, you will not believe this. It mattered. This game was the biggest one in England.

34:24It was not often determined who would come first and who would come second. And for the first time in a long time, this was no speed bump for Liverpool. This meant something for both teams, which made the whole thing all the more bloody searing. That's how it was for me. I don't know what it was like for you going in?

34:39Roger Bennett:Well, I mean, as you know, Rog, I hate the Derby and would always take a point. If someone said to me now, for as long as you're alive the next, you know, one to 50 years, Liverpool and Everton will only ever draw. I'd be like, yep, fine. I would 100 % take that. I would take sort of endless draws until I don't have to deal with them anymore. It's not a problem. I know what you mean. By the way, it's so funny because under the Sean Dyche-Everton, just like the lost Everton, the Sam Allardyche-Everton, If someone had come to me then and said, I'll only guarantee you just two nil losses in the derby, would you want that?

35:14I'd feel like I'd bite your arm off. Where do I sign up for that?

35:18Roger Bennett:I have at least thought that throughout the good times and the bad. I think what was different to the away derby, from my perspective, and I'm not sure this is true of all Liverpool fans, the away derby is never a speed bump. It's always, regardless of like lead position, it's always on a par with like United away, City away, Chelsea away, Arsenal away, sometimes spurs away. Those are your five tricky games and the derbies. Those sit in different orders and yeah, I would always accept just not losing that game and moving on with my life. I think what made it different this time wasn't that you went thinking, if Everton play really well, this is going to be an incredibly difficult afternoon.

35:56Roger Bennett:You went thinking, if Everton are vaguely competent, they will definitely win this because Liverpool have been so kind of well incompetent is the only word I can think of I realise that's not particularly poetic Rog that contrast but Liverpool have not been able to show any kind of grit or resilience in the face of even the slightest resistance and you just felt that it wasn't a kind of this could be a tricky afternoon it was this is going to be a nightmare not necessarily because of Everton but because of Liverpool That made it all the worth it, I've got to say I don't like to read too much into tunnel rule but Liverpool slapped by PSG midweek in that tunnel.

36:36Watch it again. They look like a team stripped of their aura. I mean, their eyes. Let's read too much into the eyes, Rog. Tactics, no, who cares? Formations. No, it's about the eyes. And the eyes said they didn't fancy it at all. I was suddenly overwhelmed. I was like, turned to my kids and said, did we just win the tunnel? Can you just win the tunnel? I think we just won the tunnel. And the game then opened with noise and passion and Liverpool possessing, but it was brittle possession. Gravenberg's so sloppy. Vert so tentative. He's at first start, was it, since Christmas? You can almost smell Tark's bad breath as he delighted in hitting him early and often.

37:11Everton poised to pounce in moments, winning every single ball. Mammash Vili flinging himself across the face of goal to repel beautiful, beautiful Beto. Roar, I don't like to complain about the referee, and we rarely talk about it on this show. But the referee in that first half went out of his way to keep the cards in his pocket for foul after foul after foul. Most of them from Liverpool. Gravenberg, I think, had three in the first 25 minutes for the foul you do, but the professional foul for stopping a breakaway. I don't know where you are on that objectively, but referees managing the occasion, you keep your cards in the pocket in the Merseyside derby, not the match.

37:50I mean, it's not really the referee's job to keep a team in the match, is it?

37:54Roger Bennett:Well, I don't know if that's what they're trying to do. I think what maybe subconsciously happens is that there's a sense of this isn't, you know, the atmosphere was brilliant, this is kind of the Merseyside Derby. Everyone knows it's kind of a, it's a fire and brimstone sort of game. And I think sometimes you unquestionably get referees who buy into that and they kind of don't want to spoil the fun. As you say, I'm not sure that's their job. I'm not sure it's their job to, to maintain the Merseyside Derby's reputation for being a little bit physical. That's not really what the ref should be doing.

38:21Roger Bennett:They should be punishing players who commit fouls. And as you say, that it's not, it's not what I think of as a professional foul. A professional foul, in my head, is taking a player out when they're clean through on goal. But that stopping the counter-attack foul, there is a directive out about that, and it is a yellow card. We had Mark Clattenburg famously on this show, and he talked about what he did in that Chelsea, the Battle of the Bridge against Tottenham, where Tottenham were just doing foul after foul, and the Chelsea players kept coming up to him, what are you doing? And he said, I turned round to the Chelsea players and said, just trust me, they're going to lose their heads, I got this.

38:57I mean, it wasn't at that level that the referee was like, don't worry, I got this. But it was definitely in that ballpark in the first half. And also another agony, the Iliad die goal that wasn't. It was a beautiful moment. It was a beautiful goal, a fractionally offside. I just want to acknowledge it was such a psychic release. I screamed. You know, I watch a lot of football. I normally keep it in. I screamed in that moment that I was going to have a fifth kid, just so I could name it early. It felt transcendent. It felt heroic. It felt stunningly beautiful. It felt back-breaking, honestly, in that moment.

39:37But ultimately, the bat that broke was ours. Within 120 seconds, football is such a cool game. Total gutter. Dwight McNeil misplaced the pass. Gakpo immediately, quite brilliantly, instinctively, to be candid. Played in Salah. In on goal. Man has missed chance. after chance after chance all season but I told you on Friday Raw he was going to score in this one the only thing that was less surprising and he managed to repress the urge to whip his shirt off yeah it was one of those

40:04Roger Bennett:where everyone rolled back the years Cody Gakpo played a more than competent pass and Mohamed Salah didn't miss the target that is that's what they've been trying to do all season Everton aren't we that moment it's all we'll do for you Dr Everton for Cody Gakpo's terrible form yeah yeah both of them but I mean it was so unbelievably predictable. This was his ninth goal in 15 appearances against us and equaling Steven Gerrard's Derby Tally. And the funny emotion in this moment, it didn't hurt because I was so certain, I don't know if you've ever felt this, I was so certain it was going to happen, Roar.

40:38I was almost just relieved we got out of the way quickly and still had time to get back into it. And for a moment, it felt like we did adopt the position, that we snapped back into our little brother self, that we're lesser, the memories, the trauma, the vibe shift into the second half. Liverpool tried to take the steam out of the game with their possession, but Liverpool are most dangerous to themselves when they're in possession right now. They're so skittish. They're so wildly uncalibrated. It honestly strengthened Everton. Played almost right into our hands. We were poised to counter. Magnificent moment of release.

41:0854 minutes. Ball played down the left. Dewsbury Hall ran in unfettered. A beautifully lethal pass straight into the Liverpool gut. And who was there to deliver the blue dagger ahead of Andy Robbo? So it was good Beto Best. Beautiful, beautiful Beto. He's not so good at football, Rob, but he is like proper Everton. He's tenacity. He's heart. And this was joy. This was relief. This was human wonder.

41:33Roger Bennett:And it was a goal that was completely deserved as well. It felt like Everton deserved that just for the first half alone, to be perfectly honest. They had threatened Liverpool throughout. Liverpool, yeah, one moment of kind of surgical brilliance had taken the lead, but that was Everton's kind of lift-off moment, wasn't it? It was the point at which the kind of cult hero gets the Derby goal, first Everton player to score at the Hill Dickinson against Liverpool. And at that point, you expect Everton to suddenly, with this surge behind them, to roar on. That's what experience has taught me, Rog.

42:04Roger Bennett:Especially when it turns out that Liverpool's goalkeeper has got a massive cut on his knee and has to go off. Yeah, that was an agony. Mamoshvili off. You threw on some very handsome man to replace him. Gakpou, header off the line from Tark. Everton snapping into everything. James Garner was enormous, an incredible man in this one. Liverpool tried to control the game, couldn't control the game. Everton battling, but for all of our good intentions, you could argue as it has all season, a lack of a true kind of focal point striker, clinical striker, truly confident striker, haunts us. As does the fact that with that very, very handsome keeper, Freddie Woodman on, I think we managed the total of one shot on goal against him.

42:44That is probably the agony as an Everton fan now. And at the same time, Raw, honestly, it was so hard to imagine the idea of a scoring. In the same way as Everton being good is as crazy as the notion of Allbirds suddenly becoming an AI company. And then the moment, 99 minutes, 53 seconds, sob a slice corner. By the way, Raw, I knew this was going to happen the second the corner was won. I mean, Liverpool had tested a set piece after set piece. They've scored five 90th minute winners before this one in the Premier League. So this six, a record, was no surprise. I said this in my post-match reaction on Instagram.

43:23The ghost of Origi hangs heavy over the field whenever we play Liverpool. Tarkovsky, the hero of the Goodison last game, when he smashed in with Verge in the vicinity. Scriptwriters remixed it. Verge, that old warhorse, vulnerable Verge. But here, clinical, potent, fleetingly potent again, nodded home. For you, Roy, you should take this one. I mean, your moment, two goals, two legends, two victors again. What noise came out of your mouth in that moment?

43:54Roger Bennett:Not a noise, but there was a clenching of the fist, Rog. I won't lie to you. There was a clenching of the fist. Was there a strengthening of the children? Were you doing some Luxmaxing? I mean, I'm always Luxmaxing. Who isn't? We're all always Luxmaxing. Oh, we don't. I was just getting my height implants. Do you know what? It felt really, really out of character. because there was, it feels like a lifetime ago. There was a point earlier this season when Liverpool scored loads of late goals. Do you remember? And it was kind of, oh, Liverpool always get themselves out of trouble. It's called the first five games of the season.

44:25Roger Bennett:Yeah, mentality monsters. They just, they don't know how to lose. And then it happened to them and they didn't like the test of the run. And then they remembered. Well, they remembered and they really made the most of it, Rog. No, it happened to them at Palace. They conceded to Eddie and Ketia in the 97th minute or something. It was like they'd realised that they were causing people pain and didn't want to do it anymore because it hurt them so much. So your response to seeing Everton concede a corner in the 99th minute of a Merseyside derby was Liverpool will score from this. My response was Everton will counter-attack from here and score.

44:54Roger Bennett:That's what I was thinking. If I'm honest, it felt like it was a moment. Liverpool have not had many nice moments this season. From a Liverpool point of view, that was a really nice moment. To win the first derby at the Hill Dickinson, to kind of cast our suffering onto our beloved neighbours. and also to be honest from a practical point of view given that Chelsea had lost the night before to put that little bit of daylight between 5th and 6th it was a really important goal it was a captain's goal Rog Yeah I mean I can say listening to you it was as if Arna Slaughter had just got a really bad toupee slapped it on his head and said I'm not bored anymore and you'd be like what we still are who we are but you know Liverpool are in many ways who they are which made this loss painful because they were a very mediocre team.

45:41They're still woeful. All the frailties are still there. They can't defend. The midfield are overrun. The attacking issue is very much there. Club with all kinds of problems with the manager. I will say the thing that creates an agony, everything's going, everything's falling apart. The last strand of their DNA that still exists is the ability to embarrass Everton in the derby. it's probably the last thing to go.

46:09Roger Bennett:Yeah, it kind of remains, Rog. I mean, it's hard to give up the habit that, you know, when you're so used to it, it does tend to... I said, no, I wasn't going to gloat, so I'm not going to do that. Then I got the atmosphere around the Derby from a Liverpool point of view wrong. I saw it as this is going to be horrendous, Everton kicking us while we're down. I wonder if maybe the players needed a game where there was quite a lot on the line. As much as they're not, like you say, Rog, they are at their worst when they're trying to control a football match. They just can't... This version of Liverpool cannot do that.

46:38Roger Bennett:They needed a game where it was helter-skelter, certainly for most of the first half, where there was a lot of state, where there was a lot of pressure. They maybe needed that. And it brought out a little bit of that old warrior spirit, a little bit, I think. Yeah, for Everton, honestly, a game that is beautiful in many ways. Like, Tracey Chapman's fast car is beautiful. Painful like that too. The Iliad Diegold ruled offside. the memory of it even as I say it's like driving driving in your car speed so fast felt like I was drunk well I spent all week dreaming of our European challenge of like passports going off to places that only arms are dealt and you know heroin supplied in Europe proudly with my team we're now back to 10th first of all I think this is important a reminder to children watching never have dreams dreams just lead to pain never have aspirations um they just lead to remorse um furthermore i think we are left to face a life truth rule it's impossible to change who you are right i mean we're all just stuck trapped children we all are trapped in the muck of our own darkness i mean again it feels like you're reading a lot into a corner roger the you are you everton are back in 10th, but they are a point off 6th.

47:57Roger Bennett:And as I have told you several times now, Rog, Everton getting in the Europa League would be amazing. Mate, I bite your arm off for the Conference League. Can you imagine us going like... Even with those two. Look, we're in a situation now where, obviously, it was the European quarterfinals last week. Villa and Nottingham Forest are playing in the Europa League semi, and Crystal Palace are in the Conference League semi. Either of those competitions is a glorious chance for Everton to actually win a trophy? Mate, I bite your arm off. I mean, I've seen it with my own eyes and I don't just mean the Florida Cup children, although that would have been enough for why I don't ask for much.

48:31My friend John Green finished with this, texting me, a very gracious consolation. He reflects on something similar. He didn't tell me I was being hyperbolic reading too much. He wrote, Teams don't change. It's genuinely weird how history survives all the players and all the managers. Liverpool had the same issue for 30 years minus Istanbul until Jurgen Klopp arrived. He then thought for a bit and then texted me back to say, maybe you need Jurgen. I immediately replied back with quite pained fingers, sir, we tried Rafa Benitez.

49:03Roger Bennett:Yeah, I feel like that wouldn't be a popular appointment. Do you know what? I think Klopp's charisma would probably conquer even Evertonian fury, to be perfectly honest. By the way, that's a crazy piece of fan fiction, the day Jurgen Klopp decided that he wanted to swing into the Hill Dickinson and lead us to glory. The Hill Dykinson, as Hugh D 'Oakotike has dubbed it. They're going to regret that. They're really going to regret that. Are they then? Will I live to see them regret it? That's a question. Don't answer it. Go on. I think that's a good point. It is really interesting how none of these Everton players, very few of them will be Everton fans.

49:41Roger Bennett:I don't know how many Everton fans are among their number, but probably not many. Same as Liverpool. They might have one. All of them. Once Everton's such a cute game. but it is amazing how there is there is like a psychological thing about the historical weight of a fixture that does have form and on some fundamental level despite all they've been through this season Liverpool obviously recognised that and felt it that there was a moment there to be taken and it has as I say it was a rare positive for their season if I was to offer you consolation Rog I'd say that if Everton can finish 6th and get in the Europa League that would still be an amazing season the pain of this will pass.

50:47Incredible pair of white boots he wore on that sideline. Got to say that the whole atmosphere was very up at Tottenham. Three white flags will do that, will create atmosphere. And the players reacted with a frenzy. Both teams just lashed into each other. Both seemed vulnerable. Benton called back from injury first time since January. Tottenham went down the left on repeat. They were rewarded. 39th minute. De Zerbe had given Xavi Simons the start. And it was he on the edge of the area, facing away from goal. Skipped his body round. Stunning vision. just span a pitching wedge of a pass. It was a Lob City star for Pedro Porro, headed past an exposed keeper for Bruggan.

51:23The roar Porro emitted in that moment, all of that stress, all of that fear, all of that agony, it just seemed to burn off. It was a new-door roar. Yes, it was a false door, but that moment, it felt ecstatic.

51:37Roger Bennett:Yeah, because the tension had been so high, because they'd gone into this knowing that they had to win, especially, to be honest, with Leeds beating Manchester United the Monday beforehand. the pressure has been mounting it's been getting more and more real for Spurs and I think that they would have gone into that game thinking if Brighton score first then really everything is sinking around us to avoid that, to take the lead to feel as though, okay, new manager new vision, they played on the front foot they looked like a decent team suddenly in that moment it must have felt a little bit like maybe Spurs weren't going to get relegated God bless the save of those moments, could have been two which every Simons ran in on goal.

52:15His roller hit a post. Felt amazing, but again, where there's hope, dot, dot, dot, there's shattered hope. Brighton, that equaliser just before half-time. Pascal Gross floated the ball to mid-tone of all the people, the most technical, the most ready at the far post. He unleashed on this ball. It was very Van Persie-esque. The ball coming one way, the volley at the angle, the other, power, precision. Got to credit Spurs. They were resilient, though. So Simons again, that creative sprite. 77th minute for Brigham, rolled the ball out to Van Hecker. He couldn't play it out before Bergvall slammed in.

52:49Fed Simons, who I think knew what he was going to do with the ball before it even came to him. He sized up the goal, unleashed, confident in his clinicality, straight through it with power. Curled in, that delicious thrash off the post. Aesthetically so pleasing. The reaction, shirt off. By the way, I don't want to go too deep on this. Fascinating, you know. Shirt off to reveal another shirt underneath. It's like a hat on a hat, pointing at his own chest. Me, me, me. I did that. This man who suffered all season and then delivering in this incredible moment. Spurs fans, cacophonous. The trauma felt like it was rolling over an entire stadium into the air in waves.

53:26The rush, the relief. But, Roar, we've talked about this at great length. I thought we drilled this into Tottenham Hotspur. This team who've won the trophy for the most shirts off without winning a game all season. There's a physics principle. I think it's called the Richarlison law, right? You should never take your shirt off too early. Why do they keep doing it?

53:47Roger Bennett:Yeah, you shouldn't take your shirt off, I think, before the 85th minute. If you take your shirt off before that, you are asking for problems. Because it's an invitation to your opponents, isn't it? It's become a trend for Spurs to take the shirt off thinking you scored a winner and it not being a winner. It's both humanly ridiculous. It's actually, in a way, it's quite inspirational. They keep doing it even more mad. Simon's put the picture of himself celebrating Schurtoff on his Instagram post-game, like shameless brazen. In there is all of modern football. It's about the moment, not the result.

54:23It's about the individual, not the team. It's about the image, not the reality. None of that is true. None of it is true. he ultimately went down with Crump too which is I mean so bloody cruel Spurs and the effectively playing with 10 men and Brighton roared stunning moment 95th minute worked the ball down the left Minter at the byline his cross was intercepted by Danso could have should have blasted it clear in that moment of indecision and misjudgment ultimately again not to be hyperbolic Empire's crumble ball worked to Ruta barely had a touch since he'd come on he was utterly merciless unleashed Lashto.

55:02My God, Roar, this was crushing. I mean, I'm 97 % Everton fan, but I'm still a tiny bit human. This was the thin line between love and hate. This was the thin line between Premier League life and the moon door of relegation. I think psychologists have worked out, read recently, that you experience 89 different emotions in the course of 90 minutes as a football fan. Spurs fans experience each one, but at just levels of a hundred.

55:31Roger Bennett:I think I'm going to experience two which is dread, momentary relief and then more dread. That's my experience of football. That's the only thing I kind of get from it. Nothing in between? No, it's like dread, the dread goes away and then it comes back. And then maybe if you're winning by lots of goals, maybe the dread disappears but not really. You don't watch Ilyon Dye do things with his feet and his hands just think, God, that's erotic. I think, I hope he doesn't do that against Liverpool. That's all I think the reason this one hurts so much roge is because spurs had played well because they looked a bit like a deservey team they looked like a side that had identity that had ideas you have players like bentan courage you say coming back from injury and there was this sense of first home game all right they lost at sunderland last week under deservey first home game he's had another week with the players he knows what he's got to do we've got a result against the team with nothing to play for effectively and all of a sudden it all comes crashing down and suddenly Spurs have to spend the weekend dreading what Leeds might do, what West Ham might do, what Forrest might do when they thought they were starting to see a glimmer of hope.

56:37Roger Bennett:That was why that one hurt so much because it was hope being vanquished. And they're left in a Natalie and Bruglia position cold, shame, naked, lying on the floor measly six points from the last 15 games in 2026. That is astonishing relegation for a draw that felt like a defeat seconds away from one though which made it all the more crushing. Deserve be declared, he still believes Tottenham are good enough to win all five of their remaining games. Here are the games, Rua. Let's do our weekly misery review, determine how many they can actually win. Wolves away, Aston Villa away, Leeds United home, Chelsea away, Everton home.

57:11I think Calci has them at a whopping 51 % lot for relegation there. Yeah, you certainly look at the two home games,

57:17Roger Bennett:Leeds and Everton, and think, Everton obviously are safe. They'll be going for Europe, but they are safe. Leeds should be by that stage, to be honest. Chelsea's a funny one because Chelsea aren't very good but would love to contribute to Tottenham's relegation Villa that will be around the Europa League semi-finals which will make it tricky but I'm not This sounds a little bit excessive. I think if Spurs can beat Wolves next weekend, that makes a huge difference. It makes a really big difference. If they don't win that game, I think we're all going to have to face up to the reality. And it still hasn't fully dawned on me, Rog, that Spurs have got a really serious problem.

57:59And talking about problems, Chelsea nil, Manchester United won. Two managers feeling different levels of challenge. Liam Rossini, really a man. I've started to think of him as a gent-living imposter syndrome rule, but for real, his team have failed to score in three straight-limb losses. Michael Carrick was on the verge of honeymoon over-vive, first-time loss to Leeds, raising questions of his inability to evolve tactically in games, his substitutions being in the spotlight. His defenders departing at levels only to spinal tap drummers, four out of five suspended or injured. Latest Lenny Yorou out of injury, didn't travel.

58:3719-year-old Aidan Heaven deputised to play in a raw back line alongside left-back Masro Ayou. He was jittery at first and that felt quite excellent. Chelsea made a fist of it until he didn't. United fans largely seemed to concern themselves with abusing Garnaccio as he warmed up on the sideline. Estevão sparkled, then hobbled off. And the entire Chelsea team seemed to just fall apart. Once Vefana hobbled off for treatment, fleetingly leaving the team down to 10 men. United pounce, very first shot on target. Bruno, really just levels of quality above everybody else on that field. Scampered down the right, ghosted through a Gonaccio challenge, pulled back to Cunha, who finished.

59:19Made actually a very difficult finish look. Very, very easy. And now Bruno, just two assists behind Thierry Henry in KDB's single-season assist record with five games to play. Roar, season of his life at 31 years of age.

59:33Roger Bennett:Yeah, and he has been the shining light for Manchester United for years and years, obviously, but this season above all others. It's been basically him carrying the club on his shoulders. And I suppose if I was being difficult, Rog, I wonder if you could make a case that the strongest argument for not appointing Carrick full-time as Man United manager is that this has basically been Bruno Fernandes' season, that he is the driving force behind this United team, and that maybe the identity of the manager, well, and that maybe all the manager has to do really is get out of his way. By the way, dot, dot, dot on a connected subject.

1:00:09Bruno, prediction here is going to be one of the best, brightest, most coveted managers in football when he retires. That man's footballing brain, that man's footballing IQ. He came on the show the most emotionally intelligent and fascinating human being I've had on in a long, long time. Making play a manager, man. talking about managers Q Chelsea falling apart utterly as a collector their reaction to scoring is just atomising to individual frustration booed off at half time booed off again after a second half in which they hit the post twice four straight losses five losses in the last seven zero goals in those four games something they've not done since 1998 only team of worst form since mid-February is Tottenham really sounds like a project to drift or Champions League football chances slipping away, which will be economically devastating.

1:00:59You've got Strasbourg fans coming over to do joint protests against the shared ownership with Chelsea fans pregame. You've got this raw manager, Bareff, Callow floundering. You've got profits, no, record exorbitant losses, publicly disgruntled players briefing, making it seem like they're locked in prison sentence long deals. This was meant to be a disruptive vision of new ownership and in a way they have brought back old Chelsea as they promised Roar but it's not the oligarch one it's the one before it where Chelsea for a long time when we were kids were just a tepid beta extra also ran in the footballing food chain

1:01:36Roger Bennett:Yeah, my memory of Chelsea from the 90s was that they were a very glamorous club that lots of people paid attention to but they weren't particularly relevant at the business end of the season they might occasionally win a cup but they had like a Hollywood vibe they were a soap opera and that one was quite a nice soap opera it had Rude Hullet in it it had Gianfranco Zola all these kind of aging stars. This seems like a football version of the WeWork dramatization, I'm going to say. That's what it reminds me of. They had this kind of vision of themselves, I think, as disruptors. But I don't know if they understood the environment they were disrupting enough to know which bits of it worked quite well anyway.

1:02:14Roger Bennett:So as you say, you've got this kind of... Bring Adam Newman in, is that what you're telling? Maybe Newman would do a job. Maybe play him in goal. is he not quite tall Adam? He is quite tall, rangy by the way I think we might be on to something is that essentially Paulinhoke could rip his feet you've essentially described Donnarumma Exactly, at least he'd be good getting up and down the pitch Good for your content platform That's what they are, they are primarily a content platform They are a content platform They are by some distance the most likely Premier League team to get someone famous to play in midfield for them That is the best way of explaining what Chelsea have become.

1:02:54Roger Bennett:$100 million if I show speed on a seven-year contract. I think it's a really interesting summer for them. It's not impossible. But it's an interesting summer for them because are Todd Bowley and Ed Barley and Clear Lake, the people involved, are they humble enough to acknowledge that actually some of the truisms that football had established over the course of 150 years might have been right in the first place? You don't need to put players on eight-year contracts. because if they don't work out, you are lumbered with those contracts. Because as much as you can amortise them over a certain period of time and say, well, actually, we can spend more, you still have to give them the money.

1:03:30Roger Bennett:You still owe them that money legally. It doesn't matter how you put it on the books. The accountancy truth is separate to the economic reality that you have to pay those players all eight years of their contract. Do you accept the need for a bit more experience in the team? Cole Palmer gave an interview to Jacob Steinberg in The Guardian. at the weekend saying that he and Rhys James have been talking to the ownership about signings. If I'm honest, I'm not sure that's a great sign. If you're consulting the players over what sorts of players you need to sign, that doesn't suggest you've got a really healthy model.

1:04:04And by the way, Cole Palmer talking to the owners about players is probably on the lines of signings. What are they?

1:04:11Roger Bennett:But this summer, they're going to have to accept, I think, that the approach so far just hasn't worked. They've certainly plateaued, if not started to dip. As you say, no Champions League football, most likely. It feels like a test for the entire ownership, for the entire plan of disruption for Chelsea. And Liam Rossini, ageing men, as he promised, but not in a good way. By the way, credit gone that, Joe. Did something incredible. Achieved unity, making two fan bases. United loathing him. United, I loved the way the players celebrated. Huge, huge moment for them. To that Monday night defeat against Leeds.

1:04:45Ten points clear of Chelsea now in the Champions League places. Casemiro, I love this, punching the air for a Champions League qualification. He won't ultimately play it. Even Michael Carrick didn't play down the achievement. Massive, can't play that game down. That was a massive win for us. Different massive win with different seismic outcomes. Newcastle 1, Bournemouth 2. Flailing Newcastle, four defeats in the last five at home. Income Bournemouth, chasing European place Bournemouth. Golden War Cherries on a run of 12 games undefeated, club record. We'll talk about the wider context of the game in that both managers were in different positions of potentially goodbye for one, certain for another.

1:05:26But this game, Newcastle really surrendered. Early, young Ryan, again instrumental. Tavernier bundled home. Cue boos at half-time. Cacophony, though restored when Guimaraes returned after two months out and really inspired the equaliser. But boos again at full-time because Bournemouth, God, they're tenacious. The mentality, their game plan don't need possession. They just need a moment. Tavernier was creator, fed that human backboard, Evan Nielsen, to set up the quite excellent Adrian Trufer, another phenomenal piece of recruitment. First goal for Bournemouth. What a week for the fruit. Won at Arsenal last weekend and beaten in 13 games.

1:06:04By the way, how's the fruit never taken off? I'm really trying to get the Bournemouth hierarchy to start doing fruit merch. They're not quite into it, unfortunately, but I love, I love, I love. Eighth place, just gold difference off Europe, this tiny club. But the subplot of darkness, there's no joy in football. Manager Andoni Irola announced he's leaving at the end of the season. After three incredible years, he came, he saw, he created a culture of excellence. Levitation in many parts, losing player after player, just regenerating that winning culture. But ultimately he's channeled my dad's old life mantra.

1:06:37My dad always said, stop at the top, leave the party while it's still roaring before it all falls apart. He ultimately said it's time. He's been linked to Athletic Bilbao, club he played for, linked to Newcastle too, host of English opportunities. Raw, we've met him. We spent time with him. He's a remarkable character, very bookish, very intellectual, quite brilliant, great man motivator. We just filmed with Tyler Adams talking about what he's done for his game. More than anything, he's incredible humble. He's not complained at all. Lost player after player. Semenyo gone, not lost since he went.

1:07:10Reports have the German Marco Rosa coming in as his replacement, another footballing philosopher, another front foot player, another former player of Jurgen Klopp's system. He's had great moments as a coach. He's had some body blows, especially at Dortmund recently. Give us a blast on what Golden War Cherries fans can expect because I love this club, Roar. To me, Bournemouth, everything that's good about football.

1:07:34Roger Bennett:Rosa makes sense. His reputation, as you say, Rog, has kind of suffered a little bit because after leaving the safe embrace of the Red Bull family. His results dropped a bit, but he plays a similar style of football. There'll be technical differences in how they press and stuff, but it's a similar front foot style to Araiola. He's experienced, he's worked with big-name players, he's proved that he can bring through young players. He kind of gets, he kind of ticks all the boxes that Bournemouth could have asked for, to be perfectly honest. It will be a massive blow to lose Araiola, but the only thing you can ask a club to do in that situation is make sure that the next appointment stays true to the good bits, ideally tries to build on them, and isn't like a massive, jarring chord shift to something completely different.

1:08:20Roger Bennett:Rosa, there's no guarantees, because you don't know how the players will respond, you don't know how they will recruit this summer. Rosa should stand a chance of at least being able to sort of stabilise Bournemouth, even if there's a bit of a dip after Iriola goes. Yeah, there was a dip when Iriola came for that first 10 games. I wish Bournemouth fans joy, only joy, Newcastle, all kinds of hot mess, 14th in the table now. Eddie Howe having to say anyone who's not committed should go. Notably omitting Anthony Gordon from the matchday squad. Massive challenge now, big picture. We talked a lot about this damp squib of a season.

1:08:56They've almost had a mini Liverpool of a season after winning the Carabao and qualifying for the Champions League. But the reality is the war in the Middle East. This is crazy that we have to talk about this. Football's meant to be a respite from that. But we know the pith that owns Newcastle is nothing to do with Saudi Arabia and the coincidence of them omitting sports in their new five year investment strategy unveiled on Wednesday when the conflict is engulfing the whole Gulf region. They're rumoured to be shutting Livegolf down, all kinds of rumours wobbling around the feasibility of the 2034 Saudi World Cup.

1:09:30We've talked a lot about the notion of nation states being involved in football. It's crazy. No one's really thought the scenarios through. That is happening right now, Ru. In ways we didn't think were imaginable when Saudi Arabia didn't arrive through their piff, dot, dot, dot. Because geopolitics is unfathomably unpredictable. The darkness of the world, Ru, is now going to pour itself back into football in ways that we can't even begin to unpack.

1:09:56Roger Bennett:well you've already noticed it that al-hilal one of the um one of the saudi clubs that the pif backed they've been sold to um just a lucky lucky saudi billionaire mere saudi billionaire not a problem which they're now saying was always part of the plan but the timing seems interesting and look it wouldn't be wouldn't be very good to hope no one hopes for any ill for newcastle obviously because it's a it's a huge civic institution in a city that desperately needs that club to succeed. But ultimately, this is the problem, that if you are owned by an entity linked to a nation-state, which I think is probably legally okay, and that nation-state's priority changes because the world keeps changing, then you are vulnerable.

1:10:35Roger Bennett:So it may be that the conflict in the Middle East doesn't change PIF's relationship to Newcastle at all, but there's a risk that it does, and it's something Newcastle fans will be worried about. Just as concerning is that at no point over the last four years, really, have the PIF shown any real inclination to know what to do with Newcastle. They had an initial flurry of signings, Bruno de Mares, the standout, and they've watched those players get older. They've not really shown any sign that they want to kick on from that. So whatever happens with the conflict, there are question marks over how deep-rooted PIF's plan is for Newcastle anyway, to be perfectly honest.

1:11:13You know, there should be nation-states allowed in football, but they should only be like good vibes ones. You know, like maybe Canada can come in and buy Everton. Their prime minister's massive, massive, massive blue. Oh, Costa Rica. That would be, yeah. Costa Rica have made a shocking bid. Pura Vida. Pura Vida at Bournemouth. Amazing. Make it happen. By the way, nice news, Newcastle. Incoming if live golf collapses. You'll have Bryson DeChambeau to play holding midfielder. What could possibly go wrong? Aston Villa four. Sunderland three. seven goals to be Louis de Villa Unai Emery as his team in the Europa League semi-final is happy place this was a chance to extend the Champions League place grip lead over Chelsea to 10 massive points and while there wasn't so much grip in this game it was a little bit like watching someone trying to grab the proverbial bar of soap in the bath by the way Mikel Arteta please never learn that phrase Villa scored early and often Oli Watkins within two minutes 18-year-old Chris Rigg equalised for Sunderland with a sumptuous left foot drive but then Oli Watkins headed home a kind of goal that you used to see a lot in the 1980s old school striker heading home from pretty near the goal line and Morgan Rodgers surging run and finishing to kill off the game but God bless Sunderland tenacious roared back 86 minute pair of late goals inside 60 seconds to tie it up actually still had a chance to win it Habib Diara threw Emi Martinez find this save Bearpour in the ball instinctively away with a swat it was Dikembe Mutombo Argentina star 37 seconds later 93rd minute Villa raced up the other end Forgotten man Tammy Abraham now 28 off the bench daggered home queued delirium Rook Aston Villa I think all of us just wrote them off their Champions League we said that will be the one that will wilt and they've still got to face Liverpool still got to face Manchester City I think in their final two rumbles this is stealth one of the most incredible seasons Yeah it's had

1:13:12Roger Bennett:a slightly weird shape which is why people are maybe sleeping on it a little bit. They started really badly. They were then incredible through the winter and they have faded since then. And I think that's because, you know, injuries and fatigue mount up. But for Unai Emery to get Villa into the Champions League two times in three years, to kind of establish them among that top six, probably in place of Tottenham, if we're all completely honest, they've kind of taken Spurs' slot. Oh my God, I just realised future kids, when we mentioned Tottenham, will be like, who? that team in lead one were they big?

1:13:45were they good? yeah what are you talking about? I don't remember yeah god it'll be like

1:13:48Roger Bennett:like Coventry but they've also got as we've said repeatedly got a shot at a trophy all English Europa League semi-final this could yet be the best season for Villa since certainly 1995 if not 1981, 1982 I think in the happiness quotient for fans Villa up there Definitely, definitely, definitely in the top three. Cross the Midlands, Nottingham Forest, four. Oh, Burnley, one. End of the first half. Burnley actually went ahead, courtesy of Zion Fleming, four in his last six, which led the Burnley travelling fans to unleash beautifully gallows humour. You're going down with the Burnley. But upstep Morgan Gibbs-White said, Not so fast, my friend.

1:14:31Delivered a goal for each of his names inside 50 minutes. Knowing this in the school more than this, 12 goals this season. And Forest have had a great week too. semi-final of the Europa League accomplished. Almost certainly will not be doing the surreal Champions League qualification championship relegation in the same year. But the emotional heart of the game. This was incredible to watch. Elliot Anderson, 23-year-old star, whose mother passed away midweek, marched out onto the field surrounded by his teammates carrying flowers and a shirt in tribute to her stood while the whole stadium applauded a beautiful minute silence.

1:15:08I mean it's incredibly emotional to witness and then just managed to unfurl 90 stellar minutes really an incredible display of tenacity in a moment of profound warning

1:15:19Roger Bennett:Yeah an incredibly difficult weekend for him and I guess that in those moments having the support of your teammates in particular the people you spend all your time with and the broader kind of community that is truly meaningful for a player how he performed is I guess secondary that he could perform is testament to incredible strength of character. May a memory be a blessing. In other games, Brentford nil, Fulham nil. Brentford have come in the new Bournemouth, not in a good way. The Drouer Addicts, five ties in a row. This truly forgettable snoozefest captured up by the statistic that no player completed more dribbles than goalkeeper Cuevan Kelleher.

1:15:55Really gripping stuff. Leeds three, Wolves nil. Let's finish with this one. Enormous scenes at Leeds. Okay, it's just against a Wolves team team who fell to win any of their 19 Premier League away games over the last year, which is an incredibly cruel act of performance, perpetuated against their own incredible travelling fans. But Leeds don't care. Okafor potent. Aronson delivering a saucy assist. What a tenacious man. And down this relegation-defying stretch, back-to-back wins to take them to 39 points from 33 games. No team, I think, has been relegated with that many points at this stage of a 38-game season.

1:16:32Eight-point buffer now. I loved the scenes at full time. A packed, raucous Ellen Road, which makes a noise that only Ellen Road can. Daniel Farker, I find it quite emotional watching him, watching him connect with, commune with, celebrate with those fans. Why he must be feeling raw. A gent who was in, I think, a hair's breadth of being fired at the end of November, changed his formation, ultimately changed his team's fortune, now de facto safe. loading the semi-final trip to Wembley, first since 1987. Huge credit also, by the way, to the San Francisco 49er ownership. What do you do when your team are flailing?

1:17:11There's one thing you have to do, rip the cord, fire that manager, get them out. Relegation's such a threat. You know, to fire is most often the risk-averse move. To stick with him is crazy. And the club were no doubt about to make a massive call, but to see it pay off, to see it be cemented by these joyful scenes of bonding between fan and manager, the man who calls himself beautifully the fire beast. It is humanly and footballingly so rewarding.

1:17:41Roger Bennett:Do you know what's really impressive about the decision the 49ers group made is that they asked the question that not enough clubs have the nerve to ask themselves, which is, can we get someone better? Not just someone different, like can we actually get someone better? They were quite open, I think, with the fact that they considered whether Farka was the right man to lead them in the Premier League. I suspect they considered it more than once. As you say, before the change in fortunes late November, there were question marks about Farka again. The 49ers looked at it and they took out that sense of, this is the easy thing to do, the short, sharp shock.

1:18:17Roger Bennett:But they also looked at it in the round. Chelsea, certainly, lots of other clubs don't necessarily conceive of it like this, I think. which is, is the person we might appoint instead of him, is he likely, are they likely to be more successful than the guy we've currently got? And they made the rational decision and they have been rewarded for it. Leeds aren't quite safe yet, but they do have Burnley at home in a couple of weeks and I think that might be the game that does it. I'm telling you, Leeds, you're fine, you're beautiful. Build, grow, wonder. Falken may be the manager for the long term, he also may be not.

1:18:49but what he's done this season is I think remarkable and won't be forgotten for a long, long time. Cemented his beautiful face, singular face into the lore of that club. Tonight, European semi-finalists. Yes, I just said that. Crystal Palace. Welcome West Ham. Palace, what a club, man. Seem to be in free fall mid-season. Glasner briefing against the team. Agony, what are you doing? They've had the tenacity to weather the storm and to experience the feel of trophy hunting again, back to back after zero trophies for over 100 years. I'm just so bloody blown away by what journey those fans are on now.

1:19:29Seem to be savouring every second, communing with their players after Thursday's win. I will say, poor Spurs fans probably didn't love just how hammered the Palace players got after getting to the semi-finals.

1:19:42Roger Bennett:It didn't suggest that they're going to be taking this game desperately seriously. I think that's absolutely true. But there's a trophy on offer for them and that is what will matter. That's probably the thing that saved their season is having that to focus on rather than the internal drama around Glasner. Yeah, I was in the Palace boardroom earlier this season and they had the FA Cup on display and the Community Shield on display and they were proud of both of them. The notion this club, I mean the Community Shield you know what I mean? It's not the Florida Cup is it? But it is. It's like the fact that this club are winning things, putting themselves in a position to win things, delivering for pound for pound, one of the most devoted fan bases, passionate fan bases in English football.

1:20:22It is a thing I look at with great respect and wonder to more, to more, to more. I need to get your letter, GFOPs, but first I need to make a quick toast with a third first Michelobolcher of the day, raising it to Pellegrino Matarazzo. 48-year-old New Jersey and became the first American coach to win a trophy in a top men's European league after Real Sociedad defeated Atletico Madrid on penalties in the Cobra del Rey final. The Italian-American, born and away in New Jersey, studied mathematics at Colombia. His story's amazing. He moved to Europe to try and build a career as a player, ended up as a coach in Germany, was hired by Sociedad back in December.

1:21:03The Basque Club then, very different entity, and it was two points above the relegation zone, dragged them back to safety, and then on this dazzling title run in the Copa, which he called, quote, an unbelievable journey. It's unbelievable on many levels. Look, American coaching is the last backwater, true backwater in our domestic men's game. And it simply won't improve until more American coaches walk the path not taken that Matarazzo, that Jesse Marsh has done, taking apprenticeships in Europe, gambling, grinding their way up that elite coaching ladder, becoming all the better for it. What's fascinating is so many voices now, Our fans are calling him to be the next US men's national team manager.

1:21:43And I think they probably misread the truth. But what Pellegrino achieves as a club manager will really define his career and is so much bigger than anything he can do in international football. May this trophy be the first of many for him and may so many Americans be bold enough to follow his path.

1:22:01Roger Bennett:Yeah, and the fact that he's done it at the club that's got the best chant in Europe, Rog, just makes it all the sweeter. That's got the best what, do you think? The best chant in Europe. which is? which is in the honour of the Icelandic striker Ori Oskarsson to the tune of Bad Bunny's Café Conron and I would suggest you look it up that was the theme song to the journey to Seville for the final an amazing achievement for a club like Sociedad and as you say like real reward for Matarazzo who has done the hard yards and his example football doesn't do relative success football only really understands silverware, trophies, gold that sort of thing in that Matarats will be really significant in terms of changing impressions of American coaches it's a genuinely meaningful event I think Let's go and take in a game in San Sebastian together Raw next season OK it's time for your letters Fraught Mailbag this week so many concerned Arsenal fans so many contemplative Liverpool fans since you asked us a question about the meaning of life let's read one from Kevin Holmes in South Dakota Raw do the honest Dear Rog and Rory Liverpool fan from South Dakota I watched my first Liverpool game on TV from South Dakota when I was 12 years old in 1996 while wearing a Stan the Man Collymore t-shirt.

1:23:15Roger Bennett:It's an interesting fashion choice. I was tossed into the abyss of mid-table mediocrity for decades, watching my hero, Stevie, never reach the pinnacle of a Premier League trophy. Insert Roger's comment of bite your arm off for mid-table. I've since raised my two sons to adore Liverpool and seen you'll never walk alone every night at bedtime. They're 23 years of age. This season is the first they've witnessed in their lifetime where there wasn't a consistent hope of a trophy. My question is partially for Roger's son. How do I prepare my boys for the potentiality of a decade of fighting for a Champions League slot?

1:23:48Roger Bennett:I know you don't like to be hyperbolic, but can you briefly help prepare them for a future that might even include the potential of Everton finishing higher in the table? Always love the pod and every stewed view of the game. You'll never walk alone. Kevin, concerned American-born Scouser. I love that, a concerned American-born Scouser. I think you can probably address this in a more honest and less traumatised POV. Well, I don't want to insult Kevin, but I do worry that fans of the so-called Big Six teams are quite spoiled. I wouldn't say that you could honestly characterise Liverpool between 1996 and Klopp as a mid-table team.

1:24:26Roger Bennett:They won the Champions League, they made another final. They won the Europa League, the FA Cup a couple of times, the Carabao Cup a couple of times. and they would have finished, I think, reliably in the top six of the Premier League. And look, no one is disputing the fact that not winning the league title was painful, but Hulia challenged for the title, Benitez challenged for the title, Rodgers challenged for the title. Those were the bad years. And I was thinking, this is a little bit beneath me, Rodgers, so forgive me. But when you were talking earlier about the derby, and you said that Liverpool obviously have been a mess this season, That is absolutely true, but they have been above all but five of the teams in the Premier League throughout the season.

1:25:08Roger Bennett:They are a mess by their standards and by the standards of the champions and the team that spent£450 million in the summer. But this is all comparative suffering. And I think it's really important to remember that, that there are bad years and you have to have the bad years to make the good years feel good. I wouldn't take any great pleasure in supporting Bayern Munich, who won the German title yet again this season. And nobody noticed. No one cares when Bayern win the title. Not even Bayern fans care when Bayern win the title. They judge their seasons by the Champions League. I like supporting a team that can win things, but I also like supporting a team that doesn't win things automatically all of the time.

1:25:48Roger Bennett:That would be very boring. But I think it's important we do remember that all of our suffering is relative. and it is a privilege to support a team that is in a position to be fifth in the Premier League table and think, well, this has been an absolute nightmare. I mean, I agree so laughingly that, you know, less than a year on from when you won the title, how quick we all are, no matter who we support, which your letter has ultimately proved it, that we all embrace in sports the darkest possible timeline. Look, I'd say if this season teaches us anything, Kev, is that the way we feel about it is so knee-jerk.

1:26:26These storylines right now are ricocheting and jackknifing at incredible pace. Look at Newcastle's trajectory. The Carabao win, the wonder champion now. Boom, Crystal Palace, the FA Cup win, then the complete and utter dance. Oh, the happiness again. This is micro-season emotion here. And again, I said at the top, the psychologists just found out 89 different emotions we experienced during the game, that whole range of humanity. which is, I think, why we watch ultimately. Football has never been more short-term. It's never been more knee-jerk. It's how it's delivered. It's how it's served up. Former players diving in with scalding hot takes that only reinforce the extreme positions that we're feeling.

1:27:07So part of me admires your question because you're searching for big-picture clarity on the direction of your team. I think we're in a post-big-picture clarity direction for football. These teams are combustible elements. Look at Spurs. the delirium of that European trophy less than a year ago, standing on that stage, communing with the fans drunk and now plummeting into the darkness. Newcastle, same in a lesser extreme way. Leicester City, that fairytale Premier League win now about to thump into League One. I think what matters ultimately, Kev, is the singing with your sons, the memories you make.

1:27:46The weirdest part of my weekend and I said this a little bit up top, is that when Iliandai scored, I was watching with two of my four, the oldest and the youngest, and I hugged them. I had phone calls incoming immediately, my daughter and the other son. The happiness and profound joy I felt in this morning, and I know people will laugh at this because the goal ultimately was ruled offside. It didn't even count. But I want you to know this, the joy I felt that it was farred off didn't undermine the profound feeling of love that I felt in that moment.

1:28:24Roger Bennett:The one thing I would add, Rog, about Spurs, and I think it's a really good point, Spurs have changed the parameters of risk for all of those teams. Because what Spurs are doing is not possible. Spurs are defying everything we thought we knew about, like economic logic. So my view has always been they found the fourth dimension yeah like my view has always been like that no matter how bad things get for Liverpool like the worst case scenario is Liverpool finish 12th that's like the absolute worst case scenario not so fast my friend Tottenham have shown that even really big teams who have all these structural all these massive advantages if you get it wrong enough you can really suffer there is a price to pay and that's good that's important I love you I've just said a nice thing and then and you come back with a dose of harsh reality for your team.

1:29:13Just don't be Spurs. Somewhere within those two realities. There's a lot of football still to go. Does Herbie's going to rip off five straight wins, guys? He got this. Don't worry. Want to give huge thanks to Bank of America, official Bank of US Soccer, and the FIFA World Cup 2026 for supporting the men in Blazers media network. Discover what's possible in sports and in life. What would you like the power to do? That's it for today. I've got to go and get James to try and come back to Everton to play in front of fans for the first time. Where are you headed this week, Rul?

1:29:43Roger Bennett:Like the major European competitions, Roger, I'm taking a bit of a rest week, and then we go again at the weekend. We go again. We're headed to Washington, D.C. to do a live show tomorrow. The winner of our Michelob Ultra Soccer Bar of the Year Award, Ireland's Four Courts in Arlington, Virginia. It's an incredible bar, incredible community, incredible story, which we'll tell somewhere with Clint Dempsey. He's going to join me to take a live show with fans of that incredible institution. I can't wait to drink pints with so many of you. Soccer bars are the pioneering communities off which football's growth has really absolutely ricocheted in this nation.

1:30:21It's incredible to honour them. Roar, thank you, beautiful. Even in defeat, I say thank you.

1:30:26Roger Bennett:I hope I've been quite gracious, Rog. A little bit. A little bit of gloating, I read. I felt deservedly. Let's not take a second of watching football together for granted. Big love, carriage. Thank you.