Messi's Argentina pull off another miracle and knock out England: Night Cup 07/15/26

23:34And team of moments, this was England's moment. It was Rice starting the move, fed Morgan Rodgers. What a selection it felt like in the moment. He just harked a serious poem of a cross into the box. And who was there? Anthony Gordon. Never called you a ginger bastard. He anticipated it. He sped the blind side of Molina. I think he made a very difficult finish, looked incredibly effortless. I think he learned it on Duolingo. Stunning moment of football in a bruising, bruising eyesore. I mean, such a remarkable finish. Even Victoria Beckham got paid attention.

24:11Roger Bennett:Yeah, it was. It was one of those goals from where I was in the stadium that you could see coming. Because I think his Italian feet does the kind of overhead that doesn't clear the lines. That needs to go further. And then suddenly everything breaks. So Rodgers is really smart to hold his run to make sure he's not offside. The cross is beautiful. And you could see Gordon thinking, Molina can't see me. He's not checked his shoulder. And the little darting run to get ahead of him. And it is a really controlled finish. It's a really hard finish. Charlie Kip actually scored a goal like that when we played the other day.

24:40Roger Bennett:It was a really delicate touch. It's kind of finished that you can do, Dave, but completely by accident. Yeah. Well, that's harsh on Charlie. But it was the fact you could see it coming. You watched it almost in slow motion because you understood exactly the angles of what was about to happen. brilliant finish and you thought what that stood out to me as was for the first time as you say argentina had been caught and england had punished them that that's the moment they'd been waiting for yeah it was it was you know a goal that again at times to use sort of historical context of england it felt it felt quite un england like uh in some way in these sorts of scenarios um and um yeah it came at a time when as you say argentina had perhaps started sort of step up be in the ascendancy for a little bit of time.

25:28And so, yes, very welcome at that moment for those of us in English persuasion. Did you celebrate? I did a little fistful. One of these.

25:36Roger Bennett:Retaining a bit of dignity. You didn't get out of your seat. You didn't get out of your seat. I didn't get out of my seat. I did a little punch. You did just do a little one of those. Because you knew. Because I know what comes next. You can know. By the way, I used to work at a homeless shelter, my first job in the United States. and the homeless guys used to love to watch Die Hard over and over. Every night they'd watch Die Hard, but they'd only watch the moments when the building had been taken over and then they stopped. They liked the building being taken over. They didn't want justice. Like Hans Gruber.

26:06Yeah, they wanted Hans Gruber. They wanted chaos. They wanted, that was the end of the movie. Like, great, you know, the state has been defeated and I loved it. I thought it was so brilliant. If you are England curious, and a lot of Americans are, I mean, when I was at the England Congo game, so many Americans were wearing England jerseys. It's that Premier League kind of affection, that emotional bond. You should stop watching in this moment. Hans Gruber has taken over the building. This is your moment. Because in that, we're like, wow, England winning in a World Cup semifinal. We kind of have a, there's a national groove.

26:45There's a, you know, England, England in those moments. But this is the England of Harry Kane. This is the England of Jude Bellingham. This is the England of defiance in their own right. They're writing their own narrative. And Argentina looks stung in the moment. Messi's face. By the way, Man was giving out so many memes in this game. I've got to tell you, just world class. He looks stunned. But that's also, I think, the face that he pulls where he knows he's going to start probing the half spaces. Jude Bellingham tried to man mark him for a spell, shadow him everywhere. This was main man on main man fair.

27:18two minutes later Enzo was freed Simeone bore down on goal with murderous intent and it felt from an England perspective in the second this was going to be their day because not so fast my friend Jed Spence Jed Spence that was amazing finally unplugged San Abraham Lincoln chin strap flashback he hit him harder than Derwin James it was unbelievable

27:39Roger Bennett:it was a remarkable bit of defending and I think you saw in that moment why he had made that selection because as much as Spence's you know his final ball in attack is a little bit unreliable. His recovery speed is insane. And that got England out of it. I mean, whether Simeone would have scored, we don't know. But it kind of cut off an angle of attack for Argentina. And you saw the sort of roar from him in the response from Pickford. Fist pump. Yeah. Was it another one? What did you do? I did a little fist pump. I think I said, well done, Jed. Sort of tragic little voice from the back of the conference room when we watched the game.

28:12Awfully well done. But no, Jed. As you said, Rog, It felt, you know, in that moment, it was again that moment of like, oh, you know, there you go. It's written in the stars. It's, you know, this is the sort of moment that so often before in these moments, England have been punished and suddenly the fans are deflated and suddenly the opposition team get all the momentum and the whole team retreats into its shell. And sorry if I got too far ahead in the game narrative. God, Argentina, proud team, tenacious team, ferocious team. and they started to lock into fighting with a red hot heat. All of that focus that had been about ribs of opponents, eyes of opponents, little, you know, bum-bum prods in that first half were just dedicated instead to attack, attack, attack.

29:03A messy corner, Gonzalez, a downward header, Jordan Pickford moving backwards, plunge, spoon that ball off his line, shovel style. I was like, in my game notes, I wrote, oh, these are sad words. This is all Everton, past, present, and future, Roar. Anthony Gordon, past, Jordan Pickford, present, Jed Spence, incoming, future. I was like, I wrote my notes in my little handwriting, World Cup of Hill Dickinson.

29:29Roger Bennett:But do you know what? I wasn't watching this through completely neutralized, and I'm always wary of trusting my judgment in those moments. You had your shirt off, waving it over your head. I don't like this. But I think after the goal, you could see Argentina Gorpglie and Messi in particular. All of a sudden, he was getting the ball in those areas. He was causing problems. The passing angles changed. They locked onto that whipped ball from the right-hand side looking for that far post run. And there was the Simeone chance in the Spence clearance. There was a couple of corners. McAllister off the post.

30:04Roger Bennett:And then McAllister hitting the post. I've never seen anything hit the post that hard. Certainly not a header. It was extraordinary. and you suddenly thought, hang on, Argentina are really starting to turn the screw here. And it did. From about the 58th, 59th minute, it started to feel like a siege. Desperate. And that's fine against Mexico, who's only, with all due respect. And Norway. And Norway, when they've taken Haaland off. When, you know, the only threat is Jordan Strand-Larsen or Roberto Alvaro. But you think, well, hang on, you've got the greatest player of all time there, and you're letting him play on the edge of your box.

30:34Roger Bennett:This is not a particularly good idea. Yeah, I'm saying in terms of it feeling like a siege, Part of the problem was that, you know, siege is often you're, historically, you're retreating into a position of defensive strength, you know, a big old castle or something like that. Maybe you've taken your neighbors hostage and had to retreat into their living room while you wait for the FBI. the the problem was for me is that maybe england probably had a better chance of escaping from the fbi and going on a uh you know road a road trip across the country to new york to try and get the final if they didn't lock themselves in the garage with no windows um say cash patel we're in here yeah see have you got what it takes cash patel we we shouted at the crack at the bottom of the door the door.

31:25I mean, I will say, okay, this is me. Roy's just made a point of speaking. I'm not a neutral. My heart sank because, you know, England very quickly decided we are shutting up shop. I thought you were going to give us a real potted history of siege warfare for a second. You went to a very dark place.

31:43Roger Bennett:I didn't expect you to go full like Waco. I thought you might go more kind of starring grab. Yeah, well, what do they call these things that siege guns and all? I thought you might say trebuchet. Yeah, trebuchet. Yes, yeah, yeah. But trebuchet. Trebuchet sounds like someone asked to be a rule. But it was England who had the trebuchet. Yeah. They had a trebuchet in their back pocket, didn't they? By the way, can I say a serious question? Yeah. Cash Patel against Dan Byrne, who you got? Doing what? Dan Byrne. Running the FBI or winning a header? Both Dan Byrne. Yeah. Dan Byrne times two. I mean, unless it's like, which one would you like to go under your crawl space in your house to fetch out, get rid of some spiders or something?

32:22I just don't think Dan would fit Dan. I don't know, Dan. Look, it became disparate attack. Renzi defence. English Bash Brothers were inserted. The English Bash Brothers, it's one person, it's Dan Byrne. It's just Dan Byrne. That man is both Bash Brothers. Rice off and burn on. It's like replacing a paintbrush with a potato gun.

32:41Roger Bennett:They went from four at the back, which is how they started, to three at the back, and then to four central defenders, full Pueless. You could see it was asking for trouble, and they were brilliant when they did that against against Mexico in particular and Norway too, in a sense. I think Norway didn't ask them that many questions, to be honest. But against Argentina, it is so early. Mexico was a force, you know, their hand was forced. Jarrell Kontz gets sent off and all of a sudden you're like, right, well, you know, this is going to be, we're in for hell, so therefore let's send on our demons to try and survive in this hot new environment.

33:17The problem with this was, for me, it was just, it smacked of a classic English moment of, and I know Thomas Tuchel is a German man, but we were meant to get a lot more German. Your theory is he became very English. In that moment, he became as English as he possibly could be, which was for us to allow that inferiority complex to rise back to the surface, to go, you know, okay. And look, of course, the nature of football is we could be sitting here now being like masterstroke from Tuchel. He took this thing out of the game. He brought all these people on. He said, come on, Argentina, what have you got?

33:49And you know what? They didn't have enough. But we wouldn't want to be like that. We wouldn't want to say master straight. I think ultimately it's the English way to be able to have someone to crap on you feel better about yourself. That's what you want in life. Of course, of course. But yeah, it's frustrating because I think this was, you know, look, setting aside, you've got to play Spain in the final. That's a, you know, I wouldn't fancy England against Spain. But the reality is is that this feels like such a great opportunity to get to only our second ever World Cup final. But we're still there in the moment.

34:17We've not got there yet. Spoiler alert. You spoiler alert. I've gone too far ahead. Yeah, people didn't know. People are watching this without having seen the game. I think most people don't watch the game. They just want to hear Raw go on. I just want to hear Humpf go on about crawl spaces and Kash Patel being really big into taxidermy squirrels. But God bless, if you're watching, Kash, welcome to football. I don't think he is. You don't? He's got, he's probably trying to stop the kidnapping that Humpf is signaling to the world he's done. You know, ultimately, we saw Enzo blast the ball from deep.

34:52Oh, it's my wife. Hello, babe. I'll call you in a minute. Oh, gosh. I just muted. It's not very nice, is it? No, you're at work. It's fine. She'd do the same to you. You know what? She would. She would. She would. She would. Someone's just texted me, Cash Patel. I've had a lot of Cash Patel-related texts now. I don't know. Perhaps he's tweeted this stream out. Right. That first long shot from Enzo, I was like, wow, England will love this. You always say that when they're just down to desperation long shots. But within seconds, the football was relentless. It was powered. You were watching football.

35:30It was powered by, this is so crazy for me to say, it's like powered by the knowledge that Diego Maradona was looking down upon them, that the Malvinas were not free in their minds, their hearts, that Lionel Messi was not ready to play his last game at a World Cup yet. England were driven deeper and deeper and deeper. You kind of felt the heat of the Azteca in the legs. You felt the extra time against Norway in the mines. And then 85th minute, Messi got the ball back from a short corner, drew all the focus. Everybody collapsed on him. Fed Enzo Fernandes in acres of space. And he just unloaded.

36:09He unloaded beautifully. His foot was kind of like side on. It was an incredible technique. It brilliantly took the ball away from Jordan Pickford's despairing dive with the angle. And my God, in that moment, you realize this Argentinian team, it is alchemy. They will not die.

36:26Roger Bennett:I don't know basketball, Rog, but it is my understanding that a lot of the time the game is about kind of working the angle for the shooter. In a different scenario to the one that might... Might have the FBI turning up to find it. Argentina had done that four times that had been even I don't know anything about football and that had been their plan to free Enzo on the edge of the box he'd done it in the first half and it went it was the first shot of the game and it went just over in the far corner there was the one that Pickford tipped over that was too straight there was another one that I think was blocked and that was the fourth and England did not see it they were so deep they'd become so so kind of obsessed with defending their box but also Rog in the Premier League which is where most of those players play, no one shoots from distance anymore because they're all tapping it around the box to look for the angle.

37:14Roger Bennett:That's the kind of style of play that has become de rigueur in England. Argentina clearly said, we've got a fella here who can hit it from 25 yards. We're going to let him. You can't give a player of that quality. Enzo was brilliant today. I think he's a bit up and down for Chelsea, but he was brilliant today. You can't give him that many opportunities to get his sights in. But to be honest, I think for most of the second half, Argentina were much, much better than England. They had been the superior team. I mean, the obvious possession between Anthony Gordon's open and the Toro Martinez, who's winner, according to Opta, 12 % for England, 88 % for Argentina.

37:49But this is what was just, again, for someone of an England persuasion, was just so frustrating because, you know, through the course of the tournament, you've had, who have been the impact players for England? It's been Kane and Bellingham. Why are you asking them to then do a job that is completely far away from what has made them successful and what has given England a scrap of success at this World Cup,

38:13it's disappointing.

38:14Roger Bennett:But England spent so much time and so much money bringing through young players who don't have to hoof the ball clear because they're panicking and under pressure, who can play their way out of trouble. England are just as good at that as the French, the Germans, probably the Argentinians, to be honest. And they did none of it. The ball just kept being kicked way as far as they could go. And then either Otamendi by that stage or Tutti Romero or even Emi Martinez, we'll pick it up and go around. We're going to do this again. The crazy thing was also, and we're going to get to Thomas Tuchel, had he not watched the Egypt game?

38:46Had he not watched that movie? I mean, it's a movie, it's like the killer is inside the house. It's like you were screaming. You knew what was going on. And you knew from that moment the goal went in. Argentinian fans, you didn't need to see them, but you knew the shirts were off. You knew they were being whipped around the head. The noise was what?

39:06Roger Bennett:The noise was insane. When an Argentinian, when Argentina score, that Argentinian end of the stadium melts. It looks like the ocean, blue and white, and it looks like waves bouncing up and down. It is absolute bedlam. And you knew in that moment, what I'd said about being in the Egypt game, when they went 2-1, they were 2-0 down. When they went 2-1 Argentina, I spoke to you afterwards. I said, in that moment, when they scored their first goal, the fans around me, the Argentina fans, relaxed, which is crazy. They were still going out. They were 2-1 down, but they knew. They knew, just like a hunter knows, that the pray was done, that they were now going to be able to actually.

39:47You felt the same again, that this was not going to work your time. There was never a doubt this was going to go to X-TAM. By the way, if I went to X-TAM, I'd miss my play selfish of the players, not to finish in 90 minutes. So I was kind of hoping that, but the second Argentina scored 1-1, I knew this game was over. Tuchel had neutered his team with extreme defensive crouch. England had only a backward gear, but you knew, didn't you? You knew you were there. You knew it was only a matter. It wasn't how this was going to end. It was just what was the goal going to look like? And it was going to be in the 90s.

40:21Roger Bennett:And the other issue, I mean, I felt the same, Roger. There was a head injury. I don't know who it was to that seemed to kind of draw the sting a little bit. and I wondered whether, I think it was a genuine injury, but I did wonder whether that might have come at a convenient time because it drew Argentina's momentum. But they just picked the ball up and they're like, right, okay, his head's fine. We're going to cut you apart again. It was dominant possession. It was not sterile at any point. They knew what they were doing. But the other thing is... Like a predator, an alpha predator, who knew that the little gazelle had been separated from the pack.

40:50Roger Bennett:It's a ball constrictor. In fact, it's Argentina. It's probably an anaconda. A yegoa. I'm terrified of anacondas. But the other thing is, even if it had gone too extra time, Tuttle's side made no sense. So even though Stoloni had had, I think he'd made all of his changes, if they hadn't stored that equaliser, if we were all still there watching, Argentina would have had a 4-3-3 that would have made perfect sense. England were playing with four central defenders, one midfielder maybe, and then like three and then one, but everyone was within the sort of width of their own box. it was a kind of full-on back to the wall for a manager who was a brilliant tactician tootle did not seem to actually have a tactic for that yeah he sort of threw all his chips on the zero if that makes sense um which is amazing which i mean if so there's a game here where you can play if southgate had done that he would get complete that sentence well i mean listen i dread to think what the english press will will um have to say for thomas tootle tomorrow and i I'm, again, as someone who now is very fortunate to work in football, I'm much more understanding and forgiving of the people that work in it.

42:01Of non-Germans. I can't even imagine what the pressure feels like. But again, you think back to that famous quote from Tuchel after the Croatia game where he said, hey, we might lose, but let's lose our way. Let's be brave. Let's be bold. Let's be all these things. Let's live or die. but yeah and this was a this was a case of like tonight let's climb into the coffin and hope that they forget to throw the dirt on top that's another trick i can't i can't improve on that god what this man is it's slightly espionagey there's a little bit of mi5 training in this man they asked me to join mi5 did they really thanks they did yeah who's the who's the john le carrie himself i bet wasn't it that's all that's all i can't tell you that did he get approached by Yes or no?

42:46Just blink. Was it John Le Carre himself who approached it? No. Disappointed. But I've met his son. By the way. Nice. Nice. We'll talk about that on another show. Great author's son. Great author's son. Today. Just scared about anacondas. When I was six. You should be scared about anacondas. They're massive. When I was six, I watched a documentary by mistake about sea snakes. And I spent the next 10 years, every time I went for number two, thinking in Liverpool one was going to come up the system.

43:12Roger Bennett:I went to see the original film, Anaconda, with a friend of mine. I was about 13, 14, because I felt that confronting my fear might solve it. That doesn't work. No. Is that the one with the ice cube in it? Yeah. Children, do not confront your fears. Just be crippled by them. It's the English way. Have yourself an ultra. There you go. It wasn't even on screen because we were shoved into this hotel conference. I was doing a lot of work with sponsors, and it was just off there. Look at that. It was like that, but you didn't even know. Ike, can I make just one quick thing? I won't get your flight, Ross.

43:41Roger Bennett:It's about sea snakes. No, it's not about snakes. It's about a little carry, about stuffed squirrels. I've been thinking a lot about Tuttle. I really like Tuttle as a manager. I was at the Champions League final where his Chelsea team beat Man City and I thought it was an absolute masterclass. He is brilliant. But his substitutions against Norway at halftime were deeply strange. And I do wonder whether he has, and this is a transitive verb, I wonder whether he's Guardiola'd it a bit. He's kind of an overthought thing. He's tried to be too clever. Because the substitutions... It was fine. But one, it's not Mexico.

44:14Roger Bennett:they've got more than just lobbing the ball at you. And two, it was so early. It was saying, we are not going to attack you. Yeah. And from that point on, McAllister wrapped a second shot off the post. I mean, this was building, building, building. Messi again, 90 second minute. My God, just goat doing goat things. Do not go gentle into that good night. Lionel did not want to go. Beat O 'Reilly, floated what can only be described as a stunning invitation invitation of a cross to the far post. Pickford was stranded and Letaro Martinez somehow got between John Stones and was it Rhys James? The man is 5 '9", but he plays like a big 5 '11 man.

44:57At this moment, I don't like to be hyperbolic, another comeback. It was almost like witnessing a biblical miracle. That's all I got for you. This was not football that we were watching. We were watching something ecstatic, something euphoric, something evangelical. To me, this last 15 minutes of this game, if I saw the Red Sea part, I'd be like, yeah, that's good. But this, the Argentinian comeback from the dead for Lionel, for Diego, for the Malvina, it was that level of miracle I felt like we were watching.

45:33Roger Bennett:It sounds like a really pat, trite line. It is, genuinely, it is a type of magic. I thought that in Qatar, and I think that now it is a type what you are watching is a type of magic it is no no hard disagree really interesting what do you think it is I think have you ever sawed a woman in half on stage no not on stage not on stage yeah yeah yeah I did once on a cross channel ferry weirdly we had a disagreement about whether I had to put my car stay in gear or just put the handbrake on when you're on the ferry and well one thing led to another unfortunate no look it is magic i'm only being churlish because i'm annoyed yeah because of what i think should make you feel better yeah no no i know you're right but it's hard and again this is perhaps this might be english arrogance to make it more about us than it is about about an extraordinary performance from argentina which it was it was brilliant but again you said earlier that this is like argentina's like the final boss and again my analogy for what what happened in this game was it was a bit like a final boss in a video game where you're in an environment and you look around like oh there's there's a pit here with a load of spikes in it maybe if i jump in there it's like a trick and i go in the spike pit and then and then we jumped in a pit of spikes and died yeah um so although it was magical although it was brilliant again i i'm just being i'm just being churlish i'm livid that a series of five foot four men kept winning headers there's a self-inflicted five yards out from there's a self-inflicted nature to this which is agonizing for you yes it fits into the troop of other self-inflicted now you're saying we had agency in this.

47:09You're saying no magic. England had active agency in this. That's what you're feeling. Yes, I suppose. I think narratively, of course, it's always exciting to go, God, this Argentina team, irresistible, brilliant, the magic of Messi, he's the greatest of all time. And he is the greatest of all time. And again, he put in an extraordinary performance in this game that helped them to win it. But again, it's just, it's hard to get past my sour grapes and not go, we gave them every platform to do what they did. Because I like agreeing with Humphrey.

47:44Roger Bennett:I do think you could actually construct a totally kind of non-magical account of that second half, which was that from the goal, that sort of spurred Argentina into action, which happens in football, from the 53rd minute was the goal, I think, to the 90th or 110th minute, something like that. No, 103rd minute. Argentina were much the better team and Thomas Tuchel singularly failed to find an answer to that. Yeah. I think it was magic. And indeed everything he did only made them better. That's great. It's like, next you're going to try and rationalize out how he did the loaves into fishes thing.

48:19You're going to be, there is a rational, look, this is, there is something about this that makes no sense. It is defying logic. And England were left shattered. You know, if Pogme thinks they're going to make Thomas Tuchel walk home, this final will now fit into almost a comforting trope of noble failure. Final curiosity, I think you could call it, 1990, which was an agony, that failure. So close, you didn't think you'd get there again. 2018, the Croatia failure. Now, you know, 2026 failure nestles in that collection. All noble failures, but all deeply, deeply, deeply traumatic ones. I mean, John Oliver came on.

49:04We're filming with him tomorrow, and I can't wait. hear what he says. He compared England in World Cups to Charlie running a football with Lucy Holding. We decided maybe Charlie's the one that makes Lucy pull the ball back. He likes the warm feeling of failure. Thus it was. Thus it will always be. I mean, nail it. Thomas Tuchel's just said today we played one of our best games. Maybe our best game. We have no regrets. That's not the way, Thomas. It's easy to say my decisions were wrong. after the defeat. That's your point. How do you think about this? Because, I mean, there's an agony, but it does fit that trope of like, this is what England do.

49:48This is possibly the most England thing that ever England did.

49:51Roger Bennett:Yeah, it does. It fits in with a long litany, as Humphrey will know, of kind of narrow, late-stage disappointments, I suppose. I think that I'm the same as Humphrey. I don't particularly like criticising managers because I think that you too often get close to using the word should and I don't know what anyone should have done because I'm not qualified to say that. In the same ways, I wouldn't like it if Thomas Tootl criticised my podcasting. Yeah, sure. But I do think logically, just as a fan, I would be interested to know, a fan of football, I should say, just hoping the game grows, I would be interested to know what his thinking was about making those changes so early against a team that were not just going.

50:32Roger Bennett:Against Mexico, it made sense because it was obvious that their plan was, we're going to get Roberto Alvarado to cross the ball in and hope that one of the three massive strikers we've got can head it. So it made sense to go kind of four defenders, width of the box, big damn burn, all that stuff. I don't think it made sense today. I think they surrendered it really, really early. And he will get pelters, not pinners, for doing that. Do you think he will get pelters? I mean, ultimately, to land your point, Thomas Tuka was hired to slay the ghosts. These were the very ghosts that he was meant to slay that road back and then did Humphrey, the team, the nation.

51:09Yeah, it's, again, it just, it comes back to this, as Rory said, and I am, again, I am reluctant to criticize because I think that the amount of information that is at Thomas Tuchel's fingertips is so much greater than anything that I have in terms of how the players are doing, how they're feeling, Like, who knows which of the attack left on the bench has had a stomach bug or has had terrible news from home or any number of things that go into a sense of, well, actually, these options that are apparently available to me are not really available to me. Or I have pretty good data that suggests this thing that seems very obvious will not work.

51:50But, yeah, it's, you know, it's just it's classic England in a way. and it's, I think so often, I will say that I think individually there's not a single England player that should hold their, hang their head in shame. No, there's no one at fault individually. No one was at fault. Everybody played very well. Jed Spence, who's taken pelter's, had a great game. You know, Rodgers comes in, hasn't had as much of a World Cup as he'd like to do, produces this incredible pass. Anthony Gordon has been up and down, scores the goal. Jordan Pickford produced a number of really, really good saves. It just, the choices that were made meant it just gave England the least possible chance of progressing from about the 55th minute onwards.

52:31The early headlines are in. Independence headline, Thomas Tuchel lost his bottle and his pure cowardice ended England's World Cup dream. Wayne Rooney, I think the decisions Thomas Tuchel made have cost us tonight. There will be more. That kind of answers the if Gareth Southgate had done this, dot, dot, dot, where we are. I mean, it is going to be a very hard inquest. Does he survive this?

52:56Roger Bennett:My instinct would be yes, but then it's hard to say because ultimately, by appointing Tuchel, a German, the FA, the people who run football in England or run the international team, were basically saying, we don't care about all the stuff that Southgate talked about, legacy, culture, all that business. That's all fluff and nonsense, effectively. We are here to win now. He was paid. I saw a friend of the show, Tarek Panja, and he said that Tuttle was paid to win the World Cup final. He's not done that. Let's talk quickly about Andres Cantor so we can land this plane. He went off on, really capped Argentina with a beautiful riff on Telemundo.

53:35I'm sure it's all over the internet. He says, this team represents the best of Argentine values in five days. Come what comes, these players will be eternal in Argentina. A group of footballers who've reached the heights, who've reached Olympus and who today in Atlanta, Georgia, recalled the epics of the Azteca. They struggled, they trailed, but what this team has in abundance is heart. And with the heart and their football, they've returned to the final to defend their title. There's no other way in Argentina to win these games than without suffering. Post-game, Giovanno Lo Celso went up to the fans and lifted this side.

54:12Las Malvinas Son Argentinos The Malvinas are Argentinos FIFA's ban on flags about the Malvinas in the stadium Deeply effective

54:24Roger Bennett:They just get a yellow card for taking his shirt off I think the point that Andres made is really valid Argentina are now playing with house money They've got back to the final Spain are a process team, Argentina are an individual moments team It's a really interesting clash of styles but ultimately the way this ends is with Argentina's team flying back to Buenos Aires and getting a massive reception of a million people whether they win or lose. I want to land this plane. You want to get on a plane? Get on the bloody plane. So we've reached the part of the night. We're going to look ahead to the final where we figure out what everyone suddenly believes by taking a look at Calci percentages and peeking the brains of football fans everywhere.

55:02Oh my Lord, is life fluid. Scambolo to sign up and trade on Calci. There's nowhere else to turn at this point. It could only be the final, the big one on Sunday, Spain and Argentina. We know after this ultra marathon, this is how it ends. They're going to be battling for the Copa das Copas. Spain, 58%. Argentina with a 42 % chance. They will love those odds. We're going to dissect this one a little bit. Initial reaction though. What do you think of that? Who wins all your face? Have these people not been watching?

55:34Roger Bennett:I mean, this ends with, I mean, Argentina don't lose. They are magic. so I mean pay attention and then and then to a Messi missing a penalty and then just oh the Baggio ending well look why don't I really block my copybook by going down the like it's a big conspiracy the only reason why England didn't win is because FIFA wants him to win because he's part of the Illuminati and so they're gonna win do your own research think for yourself Rog you sheep sheeple I'm not a sheep you're a squirrel I'm just a stuffed squirrel all. Let's talk about this quickly. Spain away in true Atlanta form. They left France smothered and covered.

56:18They're fit. They played six of their seven games in climate controlled stadium, which we've talked about. I mean, that's an incredible advantage in terms of stamina, fitness, durability. This incredible statistic, Yamin Lomal has never lost while playing for Spain in 32 games.

56:36Roger Bennett:But also, as you said yesterday, the 13 out of the last 14 is won finals and won by the team that plays first. Spaylor are a better team. There's also that but we now have a final that is a reflection of this photograph. Let's take this in one more time. Is this not incredible? I mean, two people in this photograph, both of them, will face off in the World Cup final 19 years later. Do you think it's weird for Lamin looking at a player who's playing against thinking, you've given me a bath? Yeah, that is weird. You've seen my John Thomas. We've all seen your John Thomas. Do you think it's weird?

57:13I bet you Lamine loves it. This is like, did Isaac not like the way his legacy is told in the Bible that he was taken onto a hilltop and almost sacrificed? These are legend. This is mythos. This is mythos. This is World Cup mythos. Is this not superhero mythos?

57:31Roger Bennett:If Spain win, Lamin should put Messi in some sort of plastic tub and recreate it. Where are they now? That should be the passing of the baton. I think Lamin will not be embarrassed because his bits aren't showing. Just knowing how my kids react to bath shots. He's a great little fat baby in that picture. He's a really cute baby. Him and his brother, like two of the most adorable looking kids. Who do you think is cute? Baby Lamin or baby brother Lamin? Really hard to say. Part of that is just that Messi looks absolutely beautiful. And that as a baby double pivot is hard to beat. Doesn't it look beautiful?

58:06Brendan Hunt said it's not that big a deal. He had this theory, this is not that big a deal. Stood behind this baby wins raffle to get a pick with Messi. It's a charity thing taken in Barcelona. The odds have been growing up to be a generational talent. Minute, the fact that they're going to play it. These are crazy, mind-bending realities. Brendan Hunt has a theory today.

58:27Roger Bennett:that Messi actually in that stage of his life was bathing a lot of babies so numbers wise it was quite likely yeah thousands of them it's just what he did to unwind after the game but the face on him does he not look like a man that just relaxes by bathing random strange babies yeah I feel the pressure of football I've found no bubble the chop 662 in the chat says by transitive Cape Verde property Argentina will win 1-0 over Spain Can I get a score prediction from Booth for you early on? I mean, I think Spain are a better team. I think that its process, its development, it's the kind of industrialized football.

59:08Roger Bennett:I think Argentina win 2-1 with a late comeback, to be perfectly honest. Yeah, I feel like all my predictions have been totally duff for this World Cup. So having, I would say the head says Spain, but the heart says Argentina. I do not know how you do this. This is just too close to cool. just Spain. You made us. You made us. If I don't answer the questions, he won't pay me. I'm going to pay you. I've just heard what you do to people. The challenge you on ferries and like get into your garage, which I am never going to be going into. It is too close, too cool. This is just a, it is a Copa das Copa.

59:50It's a final of finals. It's a team that are perfectly rational, perfectly organized, that play a beautiful idea of football that has been drilled into their footballers for years and years and years. Perfect harmony, perfect combination against a team that make no sense at all, have almost no idea of football other than the desperate desire to fight, stick a knife between their teeth and just get into it at close quarters and know if they can stick around and keep it close in the fourth quarter, throw up the fours, just that they will want it more, that they will suffer more, that they will fight more for Lionel, for Diego, for this legacy to be demigods for their people, to create magic as far as I can say.

1:00:37Yeah, this is magic to me, what we've witnessed from Argentina in this tournament. And that makes it too close to court. You tell us what you think in the chat. Email us, meninblazers at gmail.com. We're going to pop off. We've got to catch this plane. We've got to get home tomorrow. We're taping with John Oliver. We're taping with Jon Stewart. Also taping with Brene Brown. We have so much beautiful, beautiful, beautiful content. Rory and I will be back Friday night live from the Michelob Ultra Pitside Club, 5.45 p.m. Eastern time. We're going to be with the great Michael Strahan. We'll stream that live on our YouTube live together.

1:01:18We're going to break down the weekend to come. Come be with us. You can be with us at the Michelobaltzer Club. Come and give us a hug in person. And then we're going to be at Fanatics Fest over the weekend. Saturday, Spite Lee and a couple of other characters. I think, is it Wemby? I'm making this out. And then we've got a match day live from Fanatics Fest before the final. Vizinha is going to be amongst the guests. We're going to be at Fanatics Fest live. Watch along in the final with the big humps, with Ryan Reynolds, with Flo Balligan. Oh, all these people. This is a crazy cast, actually. You've got Flo Balligan.

1:01:57Yeah, we've got Tiffany Haddish. We've got, I'm so excited. Seth Rollins. Yeah, I love Seth Rollins. And then that very good-looking man on the bottom right. I mean, it really, you should probably make that graphic and then drop a great big thing and then put me right at the bottom. No, you look like you've just come off a boat with Steve Zizou.

1:02:14Roger Bennett:You look beautiful. Is that Ryan Reynolds trying to look like Ryan Gosling? I can neither confirm nor deny. I'm under very strict instructions. I cannot mention any other Ryan. We don't go there. Yes, there's only one Ryan Reynolds. I almost said gosling by mistake there. But does he play for the Rams or the Chargers? Nobody knows. Don't take me there. He's going to chop me up. This is Rog saying thank you very much on behalf of Squirreling Harlan. He's been very quiet tonight. We're going to leave you with a moment for our Match Day Live this afternoon in Atlanta with the incredible Lou DeChris who finally got to meet his own lifelong creative inspiration, Mr.

1:02:50James Horncastle, spoke beautifully on the magic of Lionel Messi. He knew how this game was going to go, Luda. This man, I'd just say, Lionel Messi over the past two decades has made so many memories for so many of us. James actually spoke beautifully about it, saying we should not take a second of watching what he does for granted. We'll see you in the final, Leo. This is Rog saying big, big love and courage. Yeah, by the way, it's Wemby on Saturday. Here's Ludacris. What do you see when you see Lionel Messi?

1:03:23Roger Bennett:Tenacity, man, you know what I mean? Like, just resilience. I see determination. I see, you know, I see just a love and a passion for the game, man. And to be in it this long and to be doing it for so many years and to still see that level of competitiveness is what is refreshing. because people love this game and we don't take it for granted. And when you see somebody like that who makes that amount of money, but you could tell for him, he loves the game. You know what I mean? He'd be doing it if he wasn't paid that amount of money. That's what's refreshing to see to me. Is that why you keep making records, Ludacris?

1:04:01Roger Bennett:I keep making records because I have a love for music. Music is my number one.