Real Sociedad manager Pellegrino Matarazzo on European glory, the USMNT, and America's football future: Men in Blazers 05/22/26

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1:20Rog:A joyously assembled guide to the best places to eat, drink and explore and watch the beautiful game across the country. It's a guide aimed at helping fans experience the city as a local. It's built by you, our listeners, recommending some of the best small businesses in your communities, like the finest Viet Cajun in Houston. Yes. The best burrito in San Francisco. Yes. Where to savour lemon pepper wet in Atlanta. Yes, yes, yes. A massive shout out to our sponsor, Visa, who's made this guide possible. Visa gives local business owners the tools and support to be ready for moments exactly like this one, welcoming you to enjoy the games this summer.

2:01Rog:Head to meninblazers.com backslash cityguides to stop planning your journey. And the link is in the show notes. You're listening to the Men in Blazers Media Network Suboptimal Radio. If you want to see football or soccer transform into a mainstream sport in the US, then you need to do something exceptional. You need to maybe even reach the semifinal, which is surely not expected. But you create stars. You create stars where kids can grab onto you. You create emotional moments where, you know, just the general public can identify with. And I think that would be the big game changer.

2:54Rog:My guest today is a football pathfinder and history maker, a New Jerseyan, who became the first American-born coach to win a trophy in a major European league. And his journey has been remarkable. An Ivy League applied mathematics grad who proceeded to become the first American coach in the Bundesliga, first American coach in La Liga, and now Real Sociedad manager, and your 2026 Copa del Rey champion. It's incredible to welcome, a man I admire so very much. It's Mr. Pellegrino Matarazzo. Oh, that's a wonderful introduction. Thank you, Rog. Nice to be here. Pellegrino, it's a wonderful introduction.

3:30Rog:You've lived all of that. This is not fiction, you know. Yeah, step by step, right? You take one day at a time, you invest in the daily work and we're still going. I'm still going. So let's see how we continue. If only it were that easy. I do need to say, first of all, congratulations on everything you've achieved this season. This historic campaign is coming to an end. How are you feeling emotionally? Well, to be honest, since the results have not been great since the Cup Final, looking forward to finishing the season with a win against Espanol and then taking a well-deserved vacation. You know, with the Cup Final, unbelievable moment, unbelievable release for everyone.

4:16Very happy to be part of that and having won my first title. But now you feel that's OK. We don't have any clear objectives. We're struggling with our results. And so, you know, football has a very short memory. So we're looking to finish strong, go into the break and then regroup for the next season to come.

4:36Rog:Football does have a very short memory, which is why I want to revel in those memories and what you've achieved. But I want to start with your rise, your journey. It starts like every great journey in the New Jersey Rec Football League. It ends, we know, in the pinnacle of the European game. But first, your new fans at Real Sociedad have an expression. You have been maturated about what your team does to your opponents. What does it mean in your own words? What does it mean to be maturated? That's a good question. I don't know exactly, but I think it means having won in a spectacular way with a lot of dynamic and emotion in the match.

5:20You know, our first matches were very intense and we turned a lot of games around. One in the last minutes, scored goals with a man down. Very ambitious, very determined, which led to a lot of late game results. And I think it has something to do with that.

5:37Rog:Tenacity, doggedness and intensity. Very, very New Jersey in a way, which is where you grew up. oldest of four boys, to a Napoli-supporting Italian immigrant family. Carl McCannock, your dad, the secretary, your mum. I know on weekends you used to get up 8.30am to watch Italian football. Diego Maradona era, banging in, free kicks on the TV in your parents' bedroom. I also believe you attended World Cup 1994. Can you describe the soccer scene that you grew up immersed in in Bergen County as a kid? Oh yeah, it was not very big. let's say before the world cup and my first couple of years in high school it was not it was not cool to play soccer we had yeah we I was not a popular kid I was you know there was a community who was you know who'd get together and and play ball a lot of a lot of foreigners not it was it was I don't want to say close but it was very compact and we would get together on a weekly basis and of course you're playing soccer on a rec level in high school but it was not very very popular and it was a big change it's a big change after after the 94 world cup i remember it was uh actually my senior year i graduated in 95 then all of a sudden there was one or two cool kids who joined the team and uh it was you know people coming to watch the games and it was uh it was great i had a different acceptance from my high school colleagues and i think that's where soccer started to grow your heroes were who at them pellegrino Well, it was very, very difficult to watch Roberto Baggio miss the last penalty kick.

7:15That was very difficult. Yes. I mean, I was following the U.S. team and the Italian national team. That was what I was following. Traveling the games in Foxborough when they beat, I think it was Nigeria, with a late goal. Whenever I could watch a game, I was there. Of course, we spoke about Maradona in the time of Maradona, but that was a bit earlier in the late 80s, where I was more that strong Napoli fan. We had some US national team players also that we were imitating in the backyard. It wasn't just the Italians. Who would that be? Was it a bit of Lalas' profound influence

7:51Rog:on Pellegrino M.S. Aranzo? Alexi Lalas is surely a household name. We were Alexi Lalas who would chop him down, chop him down attackers. One time I slight tackled my brother on the concrete because he tried to dribble past me and I said something along the lines of like Lalas. And my brother was a pretty good talent as a goalkeeper. He never had enough courage to go into goal, but he was often not just Walter Senga, but he was also Tony Miola. The mullet of death. You did play. You were quite good. Your high school team, the Fairlawn Cutters, and then to college as a freshman starter while you were at Columbia University's engineering school.

8:38Rog:Tell us, what type of player was young Pellegrino? I was actually creative and understood space and timing. Scored a lot of goals. Actually, I did. I was more of an offensive player. I was a striker growing up. When I went to university, then I became more of a central midfielder at 10, like an offensive midfielder. As I got older, I think that's the story of most footballers that you get pushed back and back, And especially because of my size, being closer to two meters, I'm six foot five and a half. So that started drifting towards defender, like defensive central midfielder, also central defender.

9:20And I used to be very, very aggressive. I used to be very competitive. Yes, strong, strong mentally. Play mind games with my opponents, which you can't do anymore because of video assistant referee. but uh yeah i used to i used to enjoy that part of the game as well you know just getting players off the like what for the game oh no i i can't go into all details because it would be uh not acceptable but i'll go to the more simple things were just purposely stepping on people's toes like pulling down their pants like a bit or just you know give them a jab like when there's nobody looking just getting them off there especially if they're in a good moment you know you need to distract them, get them focused on something else.

10:06And you knew you could always tell the good players from the bye and the good ones, you know, the very good ones who you knew that they were going to take the next step, you would provoke them and they would just get better and ignore you and then just get better and then score like two goals. And I was like, okay, you're above me.

10:23Rog:You're a couple of belts above me. This is amazing. The roots of this great story are in one of the great American shithouses, but the career almost didn't begin. Is it true that your mum, your beautiful mum, wanted you to use your 1999 applied mathematics degree and go and work in finance. She did, she did. You know, I originally tried to play football in Italy. That trial never happened, just agents making promises for trials. But I had a wonderful six months with my grandparents on land, Hazelnut Farm. Wouldn't trade it for anything. I mean, this is amazing you got your mum being like finance finance and there you are in your grandparents hazelnut orchard in naples just running intervals uh just trying to stay fit because a football deal that you'd given up the finance job for did not materialize in those moments was it beautiful or were you like immersed with doubt about the direction of your life no it was beautiful i was not i was not doubting i made the wine that season with my with my family So we have a small vineyard, enjoyed a glass of wine with my grandfather every evening, just enjoyed life in that moment.

11:38And at some point I had to come back to reality and I came back to the States and started to think, okay, what now? I need to get my feet on the ground. And that was a time where my mom started pushing to go into finance. I held out strong. I was stubborn. I'm a stubborn, stubborn kid with a strong will. And I was able to withstand that pressure and waited for the opportunity to come. And it did.

12:04Rog:For any of us to withstand the mother's pressure, that's genuinely almost unheard of. But I do. I love the Naples, the wine, the grandpa. It feels like you live like a classic movie, like Il Postino or Cinema Paradiso or one of those incredibly idyllic movies. But then you jumped. You got a chance fourth division German club. Eitracht-Bart-Kreuznach. And you left with a single suitcase for a country you didn't know anyone, didn't speak the language. Your playing career, 10 years, five clubs, three knee surgeries. You never cracked higher than the German third division. You've described it in your own words as more an occupation than a profession.

12:46Rog:You're very hard on yourself. You call yourself wooden. You said, I wasn't happy with what I accomplished as a player. What were you in search of, Pellegrino, and what life lessons did you learn in this fairly long spell? I was in search for maximum success. Just, number one, I needed to see what European football is, professional football is. So I came overseas because I was just very, very curious and I needed to know. And then just my ambition, my determination just kept pushing me to the limits. And at some point after those knee surgeries, I realized, okay, this is not going the way it should.

13:24And there was surely a crossroads at that moment where I was thinking about going back to the States and using my degree. Then I had the opportunity to play with Nuremberg's second team as an experienced player and at the same time get my coaching licenses. So that's when I realized, okay, this is the right step because of that sensation of unfulfillment in reaching the top level. At that point, still thinking, okay, I'll get those licenses, grab my experience and go back to the States, but just kept progressing. So I'm still here.

14:01Rog:It's a fork in the road moment. You did think about going back to Jersey, finally joining that finance firm. But you had lots of roles offered to you by Nuremberg, rehab, athletics coach, transition coordinator for those turning professional, even sports psychologist. And eventually you did determine coaching was for you. What drew you? What excited you? What made you think that that role is going to be my calling? Because I love the complexity of it. I love the complexity of it. I love taking everything at once and finding the optimal solution to certain, I don't want to say problems, but to certain situations.

14:40And yes, at the beginning, it was important for me to understand all areas of the game. that's why i did everything possible i wanted to educate myself in in the width and that at one step at a time i started letting go of different areas of responsibilities in order to focus on on the head coaching role and i just i enjoyed it a lot i uh i enjoy connecting to people i love the ambitious part the necessity to win or the will to win we love to compete and that's why we're here. And at the same time, like I said before, the complexity of it and seeing all things at once and finding the right solutions.

15:22So I love it. I love what I do.

15:24Rog:I mean, you're an incredible risk taker as well. I can't highlight that enough. This is so the path not taken for someone from New Jersey trying to drive themselves into European football. You're going to dead bat that and just make light of it. But it is true. It's how so many of us over here look at you, Pellegrino. And you did it when your bank account was in the red and you talked about how you were living off doner kebabs, which is not a bad life. But you said that this is your quote. There was something driving me. I guess that's why I'm here now. What was that drive? Can you put it into words?

15:58By the way, you're very well informed. You've done your homework, Raj.

16:02Rog:You're an amazing story, Pellegrino. It's mind-blowing to me. I look at you. I'm like, how? I'm also like how and why not more, which we'll get to, but it's hard to do what you've done. Yeah, thank you. The fact that you know that my currency at that time was donna kebabs, and I used to translate everything into donna kebabs to my wife. By the way, what he's saying here is, this is your quote. You said, my wife made fun of me because my currency was donna kebabs. Whenever she'd buy something, I'd say, Danny, you know how many donna kebabs we could have brought with that? Which is, that's it. Yeah, that's it.

16:41That's it. Well, that's self-realization. So the more, the further I go, the more I'm becoming who I am. And what I need is the situation or the occupation I need in order to fulfill, to unfold certain parts of who I am. And whether it's my analytical brain, whether it's my heart connecting or just that, like you said, the gut feeling that you have. By the way, self-realization without the passion, direction and drive, of course, you're not going to get there. Right. So those are just components pushing me in the direction where I'm meant to go.

17:18Rog:I mean, it's a beautiful answer. And football is full of self-realization. There's a thin line between passion and obsession, which brings me to the seven weeks you spent shadowing the incredible Pep Guardiola when he was at Bayern Munich. What was that like for you? Talking about input, what did you learn there? Yeah, that time with Pep was fantastic. Just seeing that level of training, those professional players. I remember Lewandowski being one of the last players to leave the pitch after every training, just working on his free kicks, on his penalty kicks, on shooting. Just seeing that professionalism from top players was something very special.

18:01And also Pep's passion on the pitch, his attention to detail. Didn't have many conversations with Pep at the time. I was still a student of the game, but I would have a lot of conversations with his assistant coach, Dominik Torrent, at the time, just discussing tactics. And that was a very, very influential part of my education, soccer education. And generally, Pep had a huge influence in Germany at the time. A lot of teams looking over to him, his possession game, the way he occupied space, created superiority in different parts of the pitch. It was something that I think a lot of coaches learned from.

18:40Rog:We're so proud to bring you the Men in Blazers City Guides presented by Visa, your ultimate guide to the best places to eat, drink, explore and watch the beautiful game across the United States and Canada. We know football's more than just the game. It's the shared experiences with those you love, the pregame meal at a local diner, that halftime pint at the right pub, the post-match cry. I love a post-match cry. And we want to thank our sponsor, Visa. We make experiencing new places as easy as a tap-in. Ball's just sitting there on the goal line. All you've got to do is tap it in. Enjoy this delirious summer of soccer.

19:19Rog:Experience those cities like locals. Start planning your journey at meninblazers.com backslash cityguides. 11 years at Nuremberg. Started a family, moved to Hoffenheim, an incredible small village club that had risen itself from the 8th division. became an assistant under Germany's current national team manager, Julian Nagelsmann. He's just 28 at the time. Together, you led the club into the Champions League for the first time in its history. You started to turn down several clubs, biding your time, before Stuttgart came to you with a head coaching offer, and it finally felt right. I know you celebrated dancing with your wife in your apartment New Year's Eve 2019.

19:59Rog:Can you take us back to that moment, the emotions, everything that it had cost to get to that point?

20:08And I don't know if I had realized that I was present enough to understand. Like I was more in the phase of, is this really happening? Right? And my wife was expressing it through her dance. And that's the moment I really hit home and hit deep and saying, yes, okay, this is it. It put everything, it connected the dots, it connected everything into this one moment. And a similar, I'm going to be honest, a similar feeling I feel with, I felt upon my arrival here to San Sebastian. You know, everything I had done up to this point was to bring me here to San Sebastian. And that's what I felt and that's what I also said in my first press conference as well.

21:01So sometimes there's moments that connect and you're there where you're supposed to be. And you know why you did everything you did up to this point in order to be here, which is something special.

21:11Rog:Pellegrino, you're one of the few men in football who could both write a book about tactics and also clearly about philosophy. I'd buy both, to be honest. I want to get to your arrival in San Sebastian. But you led Stuttgart to promotion, 100 games there, then returned to Hoffenheim where you qualified for the Europa League. I do want to say you are an incredible brain. You're an Ivy League mathematics grad. You can hash data with the best of them. How do you see yourself as a coach? Because you also talk about leaning into the emotional lives of players. This is your quote. You said, I'm not a nerd.

21:45Rog:There's a humanity to your leadership. What are, in a management world where managers are expected to do everything and no one can do everything, what are the three most important tasks a manager must get right? Well, it's a good question, but I think it's important to have all the tools. And a part of who I am as a coach is the, I think I have the ability to adapt to the situation I'm in. If we need more analysis, if we need to go into depth in tactical work or look at numbers to use to influence a team, I can do that. I can also, though, at the same time, connect the players. I think through my multicultural background, I have a good understanding of the human being.

22:32And I think I'm a good guy, by the way, as well. That helps. Even though I have to be very demanding and have to make hard decisions, I think part of my strength is that I can convey to the players that I want the best from everyone. It's not always possible, but I want the best also for the team and for the club. So they forgive some decisions that I make that are very harder against them as well. I'm very communicative at the same time. You said three things, huh? So analytics, connection and communication, and I think ambition. Just wanting the maximum, just wanting to reach the top, top level.

23:15And that's part of who I am as well.

23:17Rog:You took a year out. You shadowed Claudio Ranieri and then Gian Piero Gasparini at Roma. And then you took the job. at Real Sociedad, that beautiful town in the Basque Country, December 20th, 2025. It's a tiny, proud region, a region we now know as one of the greatest production lines of coaches in the world today. But the team was actually in disarray when you joined. You hinted at that earlier. You'd lost Martin Zubomendi to Arsenal last summer. The team were, I think, two points above the relegation zone when you arrived. Fair to say you had to hit the ground running, and you did, unbeaten in your first nine.

23:53Rog:2-1 win over Barcelona. La Liga Manager of the Month for January. And in the past, you've said that you realise you have overloaded players of information but have tried to become ever more discerning to individualise instructions. How do you win over a squad when you have to have a fast start and then deliver it? Very important to be efficient, for sure. So it's like you said, individualising content as much as you can. But I think it's more important to set priorities. What are the first steps on our behaviours? Like who do we want to be? What is important in our behaviors and also in the way we play football?