Should Xabi Alonso start Mbappé vs. PSG? Are Chelsea favorites? Club World Cup Semifinals Preview with Rory Smith: Men in Blazers 07/08/25

24:06Be kind to yourself is probably the most important thing we'll say. We're about to descend into talking about the Club World Cup which is just hilarious. So I just say we wish Diogo's family strength and love at this time of unfathomable loss to everyone at Liverpool Football Club, to all our Liverpool-supporting GFOPs. You'll never walk a link. This is probably the worst pivot in Men in Blazers history because we've got to get to the football.

24:39Not just the football, we're going to get to the club bloody World Cup. Things got serious. at the weekend row. I mean, God bless football for being a complete diversion. It's never felt like a diversion to me. I honestly found it very odd to watch. And we were texting about this a little bit. It's football with a multi-million dollar incentive to win, which is not nothing, but no real jeopardy for losing. And it's almost a problem that this tournament has. There were players who really, really, really give a crap because that's who they are. It's nice to win, but you don't see that many players going home and just utterly, utterly seething.

25:16Roger Bennett:No, there's been a little bit of Bayern Munich bitterness but more related to the Jamal Musiala injury. They didn't necessarily cover themselves in. They weren't the most charitable in their assessments of that which I guess suggests that they care to an extent but I agree with you. It was during the Real Madrid-Dortman game that we were texting and look, the one thing I would say, it was very hot at MetLife. I wouldn't have wanted to be running around and the Borussia Dortmund players didn't either and I can understand that and in many ways admire it that they thought look it's July it's really warm I want to be on holiday we're 2-0 down to Real Madrid alright I've never seen one of the Garcia brothers points you like chafing lads I've never seen anyone respect greatness in the chafing department less happy to store a goal than Maximilian Beyer it's not that he didn't celebrate it it was that he actively tried to apologise to his teammates for, look, we don't want extra time.

26:13Roger Bennett:I know. Sorry. This is off topic, but of all the innovations they've made in the Club World Cup, ref cam, drinks breaks. Individual walkouts. Individual walkouts, which is great in the NBA, but less great in football because there's twice as many players in football. By the way, the players will grow into it. It will be very soon. They'll be pulling the faces. It'll be more like world wrestling. it will be I mean entrance music would improve it it's a horrible horrible experience right now I've got a feeling this is not going to go away of all the battles to be fought I think the individual walkout is not something I will waste a huge amount of time on I watch it I'm like oh my god if Neil Mopay ever gets to the Club World Cup it's going to be just so awesome watching him walk out in just a pair of Speedos give two V's to the camera and then it's going to be everybody's going to be doing bits but I'm amazed that they haven't done for straight penalties that would be an obvious thing to do just say there's no extra time don't play extra time we'll just go straight to penalties I think it does feel like football without true jeopardy or it has so far the test for FIFA is this week it's what do the semi-finals look like I think we said this in last week's pod yeah that's true the test is the quarterfinals well no actually I don't even think it's the games I think the real test my theory at the moment Rog is the real test is what happens when someone wins it whoever wins it FIFA desperately need them to do a bus parade There has to be a parade.

27:37Roger Bennett:If there's no parade, the tournament's done. Down the West Side Highway? Not necessarily a parade here. Staten Island. Yes, United Pharrell would shoot. It'll be amazing. I think if Fluminense win it, if you get a Brazilian winner, they'll go home to Rio and there will be a full-on party. And that's fine. The European teams, I'm not so sure. They need the victory in it to feel like it means something. Otherwise, the tournament has a real problem. Let's start in Atlanta. to PSG 2, Bayern Munich 0. Club World Cup's marquee clash so far. Really a reheat of Champions League rumbles past. You called it decaffeinated Champions League.

28:16Bayern, though, they began full-on ristretto, if you want to keep in the coffee vernacular. It was frenzied at the outset, pressing, charging down. Both flanks, Alise purring, Kingsley Coman trying to torment his old team. Harry Kane nodding over where he'd normally finish. PSG marauding through Cavaradona. I can't think of a footballer I get more excited about that's not named Illumina and Die. Game was fine. And I realised why it felt just fine because so much of the action was actually quite thrilling. Roar, it's the sounder thing. It's like you weren't sure whether they're just not wiring up the audience or whether there was noise in the stadium or it feels subdued.

28:55They almost need the footballing soundtrack from COVID that they got from EA Sports FIFA to employ along with this thing. We'd all be singing its praises.

29:03Roger Bennett:I think there's two things. One is, I don't know this, this is just a kind of working suspicion. The great innovation of the Premier League in its early years was that, you know the big fluffy, you'll know the words for these, you know the big fluffy mics by the side of the pitch? Are they called big fluffy mics? The cuddly mics. Cuddly mics. I think we call them technically, I have no idea, but I love it. The mic buff. The mic buff. You're going to be writing into us, I don't know. The Premier League, I think, weight those or whatever so that they pick up the crowd noise more than other leads do, which is why Premier League games...

29:35Roger Bennett:That's why it's the best in the world. Well, it's why they... Mike Muff. It's why it sounds like such an event. Yeah. Other leads tend to think, well, you want to be kind of hearing the thud of the ball, but you don't. You want to hear the crowd. And it strikes me what the games I've watched on TV, even when there's lots of people in the stadium and those people are Argentinian, the games sound really quiet. and that makes me think that something has gone wrong on some level with the sound mix. And again, for 2026, they need to sort that out. The games need to sound proper. Johnny, you need to get speed on it.

30:08Roger Bennett:Do we think speed is a sound engineer? I don't. I think he's pretty into mic buffs. I think the other thing is the type of fans in the stadium. So a lot of them, there will be a lot of people who've got tickets to go to a game and are not supporting either team. And that's fine. That's absolutely they're right. There'll be a lot of people who are used to going to games as a kind of experience rather than an active participant in the kind of creation of atmosphere. And the other thing, this struck me even with the Palmeiras fans in Philly, even the ones who've come from Brazil, and lots of people have come from Brazil, it's not the fans in the Torcida, in the Mancha Verge, the ultras who lead the sinning.

30:51Roger Bennett:it's the people who sit on the sides and get the better tickets because obviously it costs a lot of money to get to the US. So I think what you have is a much more passive crowd rather than an active one. And that reduces the atmosphere. It feels often energyless in those stadiums. And then, you know, the spectacle, the experience watching at home is a tiny percentage of what we're used to. And in the thrill of the game, that's absent. And by the way, I was glad it was absent in the darkness of the game because on the stroke of halftime, a moment of true horror. Musiala, back in his first game, I think in three months, tried to beat Pacho at the byline.

31:32Donnarumma just charged in headlessly, took them all out, bending Musiala's ankle into a horrific angle in the process. Bill reported he was left with a broken left fibula, damaged several ligaments, likely to be out for four to five months. When he realised what he'd done, Donnarumma killed over in tears, realised the severity of the injury. Manuel Neuer, less forgiving, broke the goalkeeper's union post-game, lashing out at Donnarumma. He says, this is a situation where you don't have to go in like that. That's reckless. He accepts the risk of injuring his opponent. I thought that was a little bit harsh.

32:09Rationally, though, I do understand the emotional agony.

32:12Roger Bennett:Yeah, and to see your teammate go through something like that will make you kind of angry, I guess, especially if you feel that it's an unnecessary injury to suffer. But that said, I don't think there's any intent on Donnarumma's part. I think it's a dangerous game if you start kind of alleging that other players have been reckless, because I think all players make decisions at various times that are not necessarily the smartest in retrospect. I was slightly surprised by the strength of Noya's comments. And to be honest, I'm relieved that Musiala is four or five months because the injury looked so bad.

32:50Roger Bennett:You sort of think, look, the four or five months of rehab will be really difficult for Jamal Musiala, but it's four or five months. It's not a year, two years. You know, he will be back and play again, which is something. And I suspect in the heat of the moment, maybe Noya doesn't have that diagnosis. so maybe he thinks it's even worse. But I guess all we can do is say that we hope Jamal Moussian is back as quickly as possible. Got a credit buy-in because that kind of gruesome injury can completely knock the steam out of a team, particularly when they then have to go into the locker room and contemplate and process it together collectively.

33:25But they came out for that second half still with their intensity intact. But one of the things I love about this PSG team is just their ruthless clinicality in key moments. And I saw the opening goal coming moments before it did. Out to the flank, Desiree Dwey plays the game so effortlessly. I mentioned Joey Chestnut up top. They asked him how he does what he does. He said he goes for the perfect mix of calm and anger. That's Desiree Dwey that he's just described there. The way he rolled that ball counterintuitively near post when Neuer was leaning to the fore post, where I think almost everybody else would have hit it.

34:01It was just awfully stunning.

34:03Roger Bennett:And there's something so smooth about Dwey. He's such an elegant and such a graceful footballer. He's kind of arrived fully formed in our consciousness, hasn't he? He wasn't held up as a kind of particularly exciting signing the way that Traorce Gelia was. They signed Traorce Gelia, best player in Serie A, all that stuff. Duhue, a kid who came from Rennes, a lot of money, a lot of people saying how talented he was. But you don't necessarily expect that level of performance straight away. and yet now feels like he's up there with Laminya Mal as kind of one of the most exciting prospects in the world.

34:35Just about to be taken out of the game as well. That was his first goal since the Champions League final. PSG survived a late red to Paco, then another to Lucas Hernandez, who elected to go elbow in the face to Guerrero. Late, late, late on. No one really cares about playing in this tournament, to be honest, but it mattered not. PSG kept PSG-ing. Dembele smashed the crossbar, then delivered a quite crushing finish after incredible work from Hakimi. an ecstatic end by the way I love Thomas Muller right at the end I think one of the interviewers was asking Harry Kane whether he was sad that he lost and Thomas Muller finishing his career in phenomenal style at Bayern Munich just shouted he's not used to winning trophies Pete Muller to the end

35:16Roger Bennett:you're always on brand Thomas Muller he'll be missed Thomas Muller one of the great characters in European football as well as a like a wonderful player but just a funny really different type of person to have around to MetLife in New Jersey. Real Madrid 3, Dortmund 2. New Madrid coach Xabi Alonso made a quite audacious decision, started 21-year-old breakout star, your friend Gonzalo Garcia, in the quarterfinal, despite Kylian Mbappe being back in the squad. Mbappe then had to look on with quite contrasting emotion on the bench when Gonzalo scored within 10 minutes. A goal taken with the confidence of an experienced poacher, fourth of the tournament, Ardugula setting him up, Garcia splitting the defenders, slashing home face on Mbappe is he what I think in Liverpool we call that kind of face on the bench we call it arse slapped red arse slapped actually is what you call it but it's important for Mbappe that he's got a stand in this is a it might not feel this way to Kiki just at the moment but this is a good thing it's a good thing that there is a young kid 21 coming through Real Madrid Real Madrid Academy just a little bit of Raul about him a little bit of a kind of poacher's touch Gonzalo Garcia is not going to be in the press like agitating that Mbappe shouldn't start Gonzalo Garcia is not going to be saying well they should move Kiki out to the left to accommodate me he's got a replacement who can obviously score goals who's got that kind of that nose for goal who can stand in when Mbappe's injured or off form or to give him a rest Kiki should be saying the positives here Then 10 minutes later another Garcia another goal right back Trent setting up left back Fran Garcia another fine finish another Madrid Youth Academy product elevated by Xavi within his system.

36:59Alonso looking on from the bench, I love those missed things that made him look constantly like he was at some Scottsdale pool party. He's been managing now for 43 days. He's already got his dogs, as you say in America, his guys, they're all the Garcias. Is it Carlo Ancelotti heresy to say it looks like Xavi's already made Madrid look more clockwork, tighter in a tiny amount of time?

37:23Roger Bennett:That's my other close personal friend, Thibaut Courtois, said that after the game as well, that... Mouthful of cheese steak. We were in the Reading Terminal Market. Yeah, lads. Jesus. Yeah, he said that they're kind of learning the Spanish word that they use for them is like automatisms. It's kind of understanding, like automations, I guess. Yeah, they're kind of learning the things that Xabi wants them to do, the movements, the patterns. And their view is very much like this is a work in progress. We've had 43 days and six games to figure out exactly what he wants. And we're kind of getting there.

38:00Roger Bennett:And I think you're starting to see, I thought the first 25 minutes of that game, maybe all, might extend that to the entire first half. I thought Real Madrid looked really good. They are getting there, but the comparison shouldn't necessarily be with Real Madrid of last season, because Carlo Ancelotti built several great Real Madrid teams. It looks like Alonso is taking them back to the level they were in in 2024 or 2022, because the level they were at last season, this season, whatever it is, was much lower than it should have been. This is comical. We have no idea who we are anymore. We're completely lost.

38:33Dortmund couldn't lay a glove on Real Madrid, so it seemed they were so in control until they weren't. This was a game that honestly came to life right at the death. First, Maximilian Bia rifled home in the 92nd minute. Madrid first just seemed to swap them aside, and Mbappe going airborne to volley home, making a 20 with his fingers to one of Diogo Jota. But then Housen got honestly needlessly red carded for Dogso. And a penalty ensued. Smashed home. And then with the last strike of the ball, Sabic are chested and span. Only to have a shot snuffed out by your friend, Thibaut Courtois. I believe you call him T-Banz.

39:07Is that your name? T-Banz. T-Dog.

39:09Roger Bennett:Whatever. Yeah. And Real Madrid proceeded just so they can face PSG. I mean, it is quite mouth-of-water. And Kylian Mbappe, two faces former team for the first time in his career. Fugendia Alonso. do you start him or do you allow yourself to bring him off the bench show maybe that you're in charge you're running things and you Garcia it that's a really good question because you're not in charge Florentino Perez is in charge and he probably wants Kylian Mbappe to play it's a big call for Alonso Garcia's done brilliantly and because of Mbappe's illness at the start of the tournament the sporting logic is probably let him come off the bench make an impact he is still getting back to full fitness but at the same time this is the red letter fixture of this tournament this is Gianni Infantino's great dream PSG Real Madrid not under the auspices of UEFA but under the auspices of FIFA is what he wants it will be the game that most people around the world I think engage with even beyond the final because of the way the draws worked out from that point of view there's probably a kind of business motive to say that Kiki has to start but you're right it's a big test of Alonso's authority OK, Wednesday afternoon, 3pm Eastern time, we have PSG, Real Madrid.

40:25Who's going to take it? What kind of game will it be? Because when I think about it, I do think about that clip that went viral of Luis Enrique sitting down, a quite furious Kylian Mbappe and demanding that he start to play defensive football as well as attacking football. There's a lot of layers to this game.

40:41Roger Bennett:Yeah, a lot of people got a lot to prove, haven't they? Mbappe will want to kind of suggest to Enrique and to PSG that his move to Madrid wasn't a bit of a mistake. but PSG kind of need to showcase to Killian that they've kind of moved on and actually they're not thinking about him at all in any way whatsoever they're not bitter it's fine it's fine Killian but the main thing that will define this game Rog is that it's been kicked off at 3 o 'clock in the afternoon in the middle of the week in New York in the summer so I'm guessing that the main thing about this match is that for various parts of it it'll be quite slow because everyone will be really hot and quite tired Maradona in the 1986 World Cup, which was in Mexico, and they had these daytime kick-offs also for European football viewing habits.

41:24When he went on the field for the first time, he said, this is not football time, it's siesta time, which I just love in every regard. I've got to say, I believe in this PSG team. They got almost like Manchester City at their peak inevitability and the chance to show Mbappe that they do not miss him at all. John Oliver for the 100th time, spite is the rocket fuel of human motivation. Back in time to Friday's game, Chelsea 2, Palmeiras 1. I did love the energy charging into this one. Palmeiras manager Abel Ferreira said, let's join together as Brazilians and Americans against the English on Independence Day.

42:02Roar, deep history bants are the best football bants.

42:05Roger Bennett:Yeah, it's great. I suspect that to Estevan Willian and to Alan, not that Alan, not your Alan, he's the other Alan, he's the young Alan bite your arm off for old Alan I think they they are great students of the Revolutionary War yeah I think so but I imagine Abel Ferreira just like tactically showing his his players the Battle of Lexington like free game be like lads channel this spirit Paul Revere right lads let's rock this thing Palmeiras however not really Paul Revere no real press Chelsea able to knock the ball around at will they drew Palmeiras forward then exploded in transition 60 minutes Cole Palmer Spam pass one defender Cut inside the second Last home Low true First goal from open play Since January the 18th I will say Cole Palmer doing the Chile celebration In 77 degree heat In Philadelphia Was really a career moment But he does rhyme Chile Philly Come on That's what he's working By the way No one loves the dictionary Of half rhymes More than Cole Palmer It's one of his favourite Pursuits The rhyming dictionary On the internet It was a slightly half-hearted Chile.

43:15And he was almost embarrassed. He was almost embarrassed.

43:17Roger Bennett:That's what I'm saying. Do I have to do this? Yeah. He kind of walked around, tried to avoid doing it. And then I would imagine statistically, this was his largest gap between scoring and unleashing the Chile. Even he was like, lads, come on. It's not. This isn't appropriate. But it's what the people want. You've got to give it to them. It's true. Red, circus, Chile celebrations. Second off, got a little bit away from Chelsea. The midfield weakened by injury, suspension. An 18-year-old wonderkin. Esteval arriving at Chelsea at the end of this week, just took control of the game. Beat Sanchez, who was caught stealing, not like him.

43:52Near post and high. Should have counted double for going in off the post. Esteval taught us, Ed, new law that we didn't know, Roar, that it's okay to celebrate against your future club that you're about to move to in a couple of days' time.

44:03Roger Bennett:But it is the most Chelsea thing imaginable that they now have so many players on their roster that even the ones who score against them belong to them. by the way this is the future of football I do think they're going to work out clearly how to win it all just by monopolizing every single player of football they're going to have all of the players and that that way they will win because there will be no other teams that's that that is very clearly their plan that's as good a logic as any in many ways though it's perfect for Chelsea though isn't it because they they played relatively well they got through and now they have the excitement of seeing this this 18 year old kid who if I'm honest looks a little I think he'll need to be treated very carefully in the Premier League I think that he'll need a year or two to get fully up to speed but he's clearly incredibly talented and the way that he he'd actually spoken quite a lot in this tournament about being nervous about feeling as though there was a lot of pressure on him to deliver to kind of live up to this hype and I for him to do it especially in the second half of a quarterfinal of a competition that we're not sure how much we care about but still it's a quarterfinal and the Brazilians definitely care about it that speaks to kind of a maturity and to an ability to cope with that pressure.

45:10Roger Bennett:So that, I think in many ways that was the, that was what Chelsea wanted. They won, their players scored a goal, the kid who they've signed looks really exciting. It's worked out beautifully. The loan spell at Everton for Estevão is going to be. And talking about Everton, I mean, Chelsea labored in this one. They needed how Pedro knew signing to come on to give them some energy. The rocket fuel for the Brazilians really was their support in this one. Pedro, there was ballast, Gusto ended up finishing it a deflected cross somehow wrong-footed Palmeiras' goalkeeper the wonderfully named Weatherton I'm not making his name up in any regard it was a Weatherton-owned goal even when we're not in tournaments, Raw we are destroying our fans' hopes if that wasn't nominative determinism at work I don't know what it was yeah, Weatherton is Weatherton is a great name for a goalkeeper I don't understand I don't understand that goal at all does it look like it was it might have been one deflection it might have been two and he just yeah it was knowing how much this tournament means to the Brazilians it's quite sad but then if you are going to be called Weatherton you have to get used to disappointment he's Everton with a dubs what surprised me in this one final whistle Maresca just how much it clearly meant to him throwing his arms up to the heavens I think people want to win people like winning people involved in professional sports are there to win you've seen that connection and I've worked that over my many years covering football it's my big takeaway these people really want to win but he wants this he wants I mean I've not seen that much you know celebration yeah in this tournament this is a man who this is you know he's won things conference things this is like that next level that habit that is that where we're positioning this tournament as above is already definitely above the conference league I think it's I think I would I think it's a shade above I think it's a a global Carabao Cup, isn't it?

47:03Roger Bennett:The global Carabao, that's how they should market it. And then the Florida Cup, just above it. Just above it. Yeah, I think for Mareste, it's probably really important for his future job prospects, for his continued involvement in the Chelsea kind of craziness. Enzo Mareste could really do with being able to say he was the man who made them world champions. That would be quite helpful for Enzo Mareste. I understand why he is into it. I love Cole Palmer's quote post-game. He said he went to speak to Esteval. I just said, we're excited for you to join. but he didn't understand a single word I said these two are going to be like the best old ball buddy cop duet that the Premier League has been crying out for I think there's really there's something really sweet about the fact that Cole Palmer thought he would go and speak to Esteval Willian despite the fact that he must know on some level that he speaks no English it could be that Esteval actually speaks brilliant English yeah yeah he just didn't understand what Cole Palmer was saying at all or maybe Cole Palmer said it in Portuguese oh my god imagine that that fits in my when John Oliver last came on we were talking about Cole Palmer There used to be a Saturday Night Live sketch where whoever played Ronald Reagan pretended in public to be really like slow and asleep.

48:10And then the second the cameras are off him, he's like, OK. And he's like really astute and he's like the boss of everything, just pretending to be like an old man. There is a theory for Cole Palmer that he's actually genuinely a hyper intellect kind of PhD level literature fiend. But he's just like playing all of us in an Andy Kaufman-esque kind of surreal spoof. I don't have a Spotify. What do you think when you take a penalty? He's like, I don't think nothing. And then when he's in the locker room, he's just reading Solzhenitsyn.

48:37Roger Bennett:It's possible. Yeah, maybe he's worked out that the easiest way, the easiest life for him is to look like he's completely monosyllabic. It's amazing. God bless. I love this vision. God, Cole Palmer Book Club is just like, make it happen. In the other game, Fluminense beat Al-Hilal in Orlando. Two incredible finishes. First from a Martinelli who can score. second from streetwise Hercules who can fight the rising odds. Just one goal before the tournament, now two in back-to-back knockout games. Amazing story for Fluminense, just the age of some of their players. 44-year-old keeper Fabio and the great 40-year-old centre-back Thiago Silva.

49:1684 years of experience between the two of them. I mean, that to me is just like the dream narrative of this entire tournament, watching those guys.

49:25Roger Bennett:And yeah, and it's really important to have a Brazilian team in the 70s because the Brazilians, not only do they take it seriously unquestionably, you know, if we were a Brazilian podcast, Rog, we wouldn't be debating how much people care about this competition. But they've added so much to the tournament, not just in terms of the teams they've beaten, you know, Botafogo beat PSG, Flamengo beat Chelsea. You look at the fans they've brought, the colour they've kind of contributed. To have a Brazilian team in the semifinals is really important.

49:54at the end of the day we know in club football we're just cheering for spreadsheets so this is one of the greatest fault lines for the club world cup different to international football which is just a lesser game so there's ways to to to make up the skill gap ultimately you know for a brazilian team the financial gap between them and the european teams is probably for a long time going to be too great to close i think chelsea's semi-final to lose but who's going to win this thing Rob? For me Hart says Fluminense, mine says PSG

50:25Roger Bennett:Well I think Chelsea are favourites with the bookmakers and I think that's because they've got the easiest semi-final so they're more likely to be in the final whereas PSG Real is kind of a toss-up to an extent I'd be the same as you I think you're probably looking at a Chelsea PSG final and strictly speaking PSG because they're the best team in the world rather than an endlessly changing collection of individuals I think PSG would probably win that One more note on the Club World Cup. FIFA have seen sense and started to slash the ticket prices. Club World Cup quarterfinal, 4th of July, getting priced$6 for Fluminense, Al Hillel.

51:02A very steep$17 for Palmeiras against Chelsea. Why didn't they just do this at the outset and avoid the humiliation of the, you know, empty stadium waking optic nightmare?

51:13Roger Bennett:Yeah, I've no idea. I mean, to be honest, I think it's like$6 or$17 is probably a bit cheap. you probably don't want to be selling tickets for that much because it makes it look like it's a tin pot competition. Why you wouldn't say, we need to make sure this is accessible, so let's set it at, like from a British point of view, I'd say like$30,$40 is a reasonable amount to charge for a ticket to a sporting event. I know that that's why I'm not in dynamic pricing. But it strikes me as obvious that certainly early on, you should be able to tell how much the pickup is. And at that point, you change.

51:46Roger Bennett:the fact that they've had to reduce it so much that it's gone so low. Fine, maybe chalk it up to experience, but for the love of God, learn the lesson next summer. By the way, I love your thing about dynamic pricing. It's like that line from The Graduate, what's the future? Plastics. It is, I wish I was in the dynamic pricing industry. It is incredible. Adam Crafton tweeted yesterday, the second the semifinal was forged, the Chelsea ticket was$473.90. by yesterday it was$13.40. So if you brought immediately, you were paying 35 times. If you just waited that 24 hours, I will say fill in the stadia by giving the tickets away.

52:29I do wonder whether it gives UEFA like second guessing about their dream of holding the Champions League final in the United States of America.

52:35Roger Bennett:I think that's a massive thing that the whole tournament, which again, I'm broadly pro Club World Cup. Not just broadly, you're part of the big America Club World Cup Lovey, you're it. Yeah, I think there'll be people at UEFA thinking, maybe this is trickier than we thought. Or they might be thinking, we have to work harder. We have to do more. The other thing I'd say is that I remember in Qatar in 2022, when just before kick-off, you'd get this massive rush of people coming into the stadiums because they'd gone outside and given the tickets away. They'd got volunteers. They'd got anyone they could find to go into the stadiums.

53:09Roger Bennett:Obviously, the organising committees denied this. FIFA denied it. But it was obvious what was happening. The Qatar games, they shipped in ultras from, was it Lebanon? Lebanon, Lebanese ultras. Yeah. That's what we should be doing here. Is this where you're going? America, get smart, Lebanese ultras for future. They are available for hire. No, I think there is a pattern here of these events. We are making them too expensive. You need the colour. The thing from the Club World Cup that has sold me on it and the thing that you could have sold to Europe and to the US is go and experience what it's like to be at the Bombonera.

53:43Roger Bennett:Go and experience what it's like to be at River Plate or at Palmeiras or at Fluminense. You're selling an experience. If you say to people you have to pay$400 for that experience, they won't do it. Fans make football. Stop making these events too expensive for normal people to go to. Amen. Okay, we are living transfer window life, people. That's why we watch, not to go to the games, but to talk about who's going to come in and disappoint us. Honestly, days in which it feels like Twitter was only invented just so that on the daily, Chelsea could tell us the latest player that they scored. But Arsenal, beginning to bear their teeth, they signed$68 million plus intelligent midfield Wunder Martin Zubamendi from Real Sociedad.

54:25Finally, Brentford's powerhouse Christian Norgaard poised to join. Miraculously, non-imadweke terms discussed. Also, Jokeres dot, dot, dot coming. But the Arsenal story, I do want to get your read on, Roar. It's actually a very dreadful one. News came out this weekend after three years of being unable to name Thomas Partey as the, quote, Premier League star under investigation for alleged rape because of English privacy laws. It's been announced, even though everyone knew that Partey's been charged with six offences against three women between 2021 and 2022. The Athletic reported since his first arrest in July 2022, Thomas Partey was arrested, questioned by police, bailed seven times while still playing for Arsenal.

55:09So we know Arsenal would have known all of this was going on, but they kept playing him. Arteta constantly gave the player support, talked obliquely about, quote, all he's been through. For his part, Partey, through his lawyers, it says he welcomes the opportunity to finally clear his name. But Raw, legally, Arsenal may have played this right. But morally, it doesn't feel like anyone's really thought this dreadful situation through at all. I mean, they now risked enormous reputational damage in the pursuit of victory. I mean, it's a situation that really could unspool and almost destroy everything.

55:46Yeah, I think their defence would be that until someone is charged, convicted, it is legitimate to treat them as innocent until proven guilty. I think, to me, I've got to admit, to me that feels convenient.

56:04Roger Bennett:You don't have a right to be a footballer. we've seen in previous incidents where footballers have been charged with with with serious offenses that their defense is always well i have a right to work and you do have a right to work you do not have a right to be an idol to millions of people that's not a thing you you can it might be your trade maybe it's a little another trade if you have done something which stopped which means that you shouldn't be held up as a public figure you know who's yeah who is admired by by young children, by fans. Maybe you don't get to be that. And to me, I would have thought that once it became clear that these allegations were not going away, that there was a genuine investigation into it.

56:47Roger Bennett:I'm sure a party protested his innocence. I'm sure he will continue to protest his innocence. But I think Arsenal have a, or any club in that situation, you can just say, well, look, we're just going to wait this out. So you are suspended on full pay until we know what the situation is. there have been instances at other clubs where as soon as the allegation has been made the player has just not appeared anymore and you yeah because of English privacy laws you can't name them even now I'm slightly nervous Rog because according to English contempt law we're not allowed I'm not allowed to talk about this as a as a member of the British the esteemed British media I'm I'm there is something in my training that says just don't touch it Thomas Barty's been charged you're not allowed to talk unless you want to risk kind of what's the word bringing the trial into contempt which can collapse a trial and in the case of any crime but particularly sexual offenses crimes that's really dangerous but i think it is surprising to me that arsdale didn't say at some point when he was continually being arrested and interviewed under caution by the police we think it's best for everybody if you are just removed from the public particularly as arsdale have been such pioneers on the women's side of the operation.

57:57It's almost unfathomable. And I know a lot of their fans have been left reeling in terms of the conflictive feelings that have been triggered by this dark story. But enough. Let's move. Let's finish and close. We have a letter from a GFOP. First of all, I want to thank all of you for keep sending your foreign players whose names sound even more amazing in English. At JT Cole Comedy on YouTube wrote, Juan Cuadrado. Do you know this one?

58:23Roger Bennett:This one. Johnny Johnstweird. Yeah, Johnny Square, which is like the coolest name of it. Oh, man, can you imagine that in high school in the 1980s? Hey, there's Johnny Square. But here's a letter for the day from Steph Layden in Columbus, Ohio. Roar, do the honors. So Steph writes, I want to thank you both for all you do for football in America. I am saying that as someone who has just had their first bite of Terry's chocolate orange because of you guys. Now, strictly speaking, Roger, I'm not sure that's to do with football. That's just me recommending good chocolate. It was life-changing. Not surprised it can be.

58:55Roger Bennett:also weight gaining just as a warning. Here's what I want to know from me, Rory. Zero calories The Gold Cup has just finished, it has, in an unfortunate defeat for the United States. We heard from Rog with Clint Dempsey all summer long but what does Maurizio Pochettino look like from the perspective of the English media? How do they view how he is doing? Or what he is doing? What does he look like? Is he speaking to you all still as English journalists on or off the record? Answering that wouldn't necessarily make it off the record what does he seem like from the perspective of 3 ,000 miles away across the Atlantic courage Stephanie Steph thank you for making it very clear you've heard enough from me so Roar she's quite right I'm going to hand this one over to you I did see the BBC on their website had an article is Pochettino delivering hope or panic to the US after the Gold Cup loss those are the only two possibilities it's just either it's going to be hope or panic there's nothing there's nothing in the middle those are the two emotions that we have definitely from an English perspective that they're really hoping for one of those options, not for the other, but we'll take it away.

59:57Roger Bennett:I think there's like a hierarchy of fame in this. So because we know Pochettino more, he's more high profile in England than any of the players and more high profile than we think about Mariccio Pochettino more than we would ordinarily think about the US national team. I think there is an assumption that anything that goes wrong is maybe not his fault, that there's maybe a slightly patronizing, I don't want to speak for England, like a slightly patronizing view that he is a more high-profile coach than we would expect the men's national team to have. Therefore, they must be lucky to have him. Therefore, if it's going wrong, it's probably not on him.

1:00:37But that said, like the English insularity,

1:00:40Roger Bennett:which occasionally, Rod, we might play up just a touch, I think the idea that the US should be better than they are or have been that is something that is accepted within kind of English football culture that there is an awareness that the bulk of the team either play in the Premier League or the Champions League that there is quality there and that therefore it's not unreasonable for the US to look at next summer and think we maybe should be aiming for last 16 quarterfinals something like that as host nation, main host nation so I think there is maybe a yeah it's not entirely a free hit for Pochettino from an English perspective.

1:01:18It's not, if Poch fails here, I mean speaking of dark scenario and we do not make it out of the group, does this blemish him or can he walk away from the wreckage and scathe and be like, those losers No

1:01:32Roger Bennett:I don't think he can. I think when he first took the job I thought that to me that might be part of his thinking that he'd kind of go to the US basically as a placeholder and then come back after 2026, back into Europe and probably walk into a relatively high profile job. I think if it goes really badly wrong, especially after Chelsea and especially after PSG, I think that maybe does impact how he's seen in Europe. It's not a free hit. We are kind of watching. He's still, in answer to Stephanie's question, he does still have a relationship with the English media in general. He's a really nice guy, Maricio Pochettino.

1:02:06Roger Bennett:He's always been very kind of forthcoming to the journalists who've covered him regularly. As the person who did his first ever interview in England, I've always had a special, like... A lot of humblebags. Warm place in my heart. Garcia's, T-Bants, Pogge. Special warm place in my heart for Maurizio Pochettino, who I know better even than T-Bants. So I think he does talk a little bit. I don't think he... And he's not like doing briefings and stuff particularly, I don't think. But he might be kind of... Does he seem happy, Will? It depends how many lemons he has around him. that's what he needs he needs lemons to absorb negative energy the answer is never enough lemons Steph thank you for your magical letter to better days ahead for all of our boys we are 338 days away from the World Cup we have so much to fix in this men's team at every single level but I want to end on a happier note I do want to thank you it's a joy to be with you here in the flesh honestly you are the embodiment of the connective joy that I do feel through football thank you for being with us you beautiful human being it's a pleasure it's great this is a big week come and watch the Club World Cup semi-finals with Roar and me in Manhattan see the chafing live and in the flesh come and raise a beer with us RSVP in the show notes to come and give us a hug we'll be taping live shows before and after every single game this week keep emailing in your dogs and your cats your letters your questions your chocolate orange affectations at meninblazers at gmail.com.

1:03:39They give us incredible joy. As I said, 338 days until the World Cup. Let's savour each one. Roar, you're a beautiful human being. Your crown prince of Harrigan.

1:03:48Roger Bennett:We've got to do a deal with chocolate orange, Rog. This is getting ridiculous. God, you're not there. I'm working on it. Every single day, 12 mentions guaranteed. It's Rog sending you big love. Let's not take a second and watching football together for granted. And courage.