Sunderland's Arsenal stunner, Manchester City smash Liverpool: Men in Blazers 11/10/2025

26:08They're happy to be in the Premier League, but that is not the limit of it. They are not accepting that they are one of those mate-weight clubs. They want to be here for the long haul and they want to be involved. They want to take on active participation. they've recruited really smartly you know you looked at Luttrell Gertruida the right back slash central defender slash central midfielder who is not the most glamorous player but he's been lynched with some big clubs he played for RB Leipzig he was you know he's a big name player and he is in there at Sunderland looking like he's worth all of the kind of reputation he has same with Nardi Mukieheli he used to play for PSG obviously Xhaka they really went for it in the summer and I think it's said to everybody at Sunderland, the fans, the city, the players, we're here to make an impact.

26:54We're not just here and happy to be along for the ride. We're really going to have a go. And they did that to Arsenal. As Mikel Arteta said afterwards, lots of big teams will go to Sunderland this season and not win. See, that to me is the biggest takeaway. Arsenal's players looked gobsmacked at the final whistle as they walked around. That last second agony, the clean sheet run over. I think we talked midweek with James Horncastle about how much that meant to the back line. You could see when they were cruising to a win in the Champions League and a penalty they'd given away was overturned, how much they celebrated.

27:26They felt that. And I'll also feel the agony of letting that lead slip in a game in which the XG was Sunderland 0.53, the Arsenal 2.26, but it ended 2-2. I believe that in the moment of the final whistle. I believe it more now that the smoke has cleared raw. In the long scheme of the season, I do believe a point at Sunderland will be viewed as a very, very good result, especially with the North London derby up next. Yeah, I think that's the likeliest outcome, is that other teams that are going for the title, and there might only be one or two of those left, Rog, will go to Sunderland and drop points.

28:02They might draw, they might lose. Chelsea's record against Sunderland is abysmal for a start. Sunderland, I think, will be thinking now about certainly a top-half finish. They may not be deluding themselves about the Champions League just yet, but they'll be looking at a top-half finish, there is no reason to believe they can't get one. And it may well be the case that in six months' time we're saying, well, Arsenal did really well to take a point at Sunderland, to take a point at Crystal Palace, and to take a point at Bournemouth, because those points are valuable in the end. I think the one small, tiny little asterisk that you have to have is the run of fixtures that Arsenal have after the international break is a little bit trickier.

28:42They've had a relatively kind kind of late October, early November The last four games have been Fulham, Burnley, Palace at home and Sunderland. That is a good, nice, solid run of fixtures. After a most brutal start, we have to... After a reasonably brutal start. So they had a really good start in the sense that they weathered the storm. Obviously lost to Anfield, drew with City, but they won everything else. And then they had this kind run, kind-ish run, that they have made the most of. And that's all you can do. You have to play the fixtures. Spurs and Chelsea are both around the corner. I think we'll know a lot more about how psychologically solid Arsenal are, how able they are to withstand the pressure of looking like champions once they've played those games and we're a little bit closer to Christmas.

29:28Quick question via our mailbag from Josh Siegel in Seattle, Washington, who writes the big one, Rogan Rory. Do you know if anyone's attempted to discover why there's such a high rate of distribution of trash on the pitch at the Stadium of Light compared to other venues? Is it deliberate home field advantage? Is there a scheme involving the stewards? Is there a way the betting companies are somehow involved? Or is it just the way the crisp packets blew in the breeze? Thanks for putting in the hard work on the important issues, your pal Josh. Roar, I mean, with the advertising hoardings is one thing.

30:00Do you think they have a guy who's just like, keep flinging the trash on, it confuses the opposition? Unleash the walkers. It is true. The two litteriest grounds in England are the Stadium of Light and the Hawthorns where West Bromwich Albion play. And I don't have a scientific explanation for it, Rog, but I would imagine it is a numbers game. It is windier and there are more people eating crisps. You know, yeah, which makes me want to move there as someone that is a bit of a potato chip addict. I did do some research. I read a couple of back issues of Science Times. I think it's large crowd, inadequate number of trash cans, strong wind, trifecta of Sunderland.

30:42But I will say it's become a signature. It's like the Boston Garden, the Celtics. You know, the hardwood floor signature difference. Bit of garbage on the field blowing around. That's their look. That's their aesthetics. That's their thing. Never change, Sunderland. Never change. It's working. Manchester City, three. What? Liverpool Football Club, nil. Say it ain't so. I mean, raw. Arsenal had drawn. There was just like a spice of hope over this game. Tossed like a firecracker onto an inferno when these two giants collided to finish off the weekend. These two massive teams, winners of the last eight Premier League titles between them, both, though, attempting to resummon their swagger.

31:24That's been the story of this season. Both trying to gird their loins to mass vulnerabilities that have made them, honestly, all the more human, all the more likeable, I'd say. Unfathomable for Liverpool. Six losses in seven games. Felt like we got beyond that. They spent the week straightening their crown, dispatching Aston Villa, doing Real Madrid. gestures towards business as usual. That's what we thought going into their city. Had man monster Erling Haaland and Pep Guardiola bringing up the massive milestone of 1 ,000 games as manager going back to 2007. I mean, it must have been amazing for him.

31:57What are the odds that in his 1 ,000th game, well-played Premier League scriptwriters, well-played, he'd face his greatest nemesis. And he did so, wink-wink, by thanking the universe for giving him the perfect opponent. We know his win percentage, incredible, 71.57%. We know his tonnage of 39 trophies. He said, you can say about me, I am defined by dedication, passion, and love. And that, nobody beats me. When I read that, I was like, is that really raw? I admire him so bloody much. But do you think of those words, dedication, passion, love, when you think Pep Guardiola? it i mean dedication and passion yes love i suppose it must be i mean i think there's an element where love and passion in that context are synonyms aren't they really that's what he's talking about um i mean for me it's madness mania self-flagellation weird cargo pants yeah weird cargo pants definitely interesting sartorial choices obsession i was at a dinner where both jürgen klopp and pep guardiola were in attendance years and years ago actually wrote about this briefly in the correspondent the other day and it was really interesting that they they both gave little speeches and clop felt much more personable like he was he was clearly very comfortable in that scenario in a big big room full of mainly journalists but lots of people couple of jokes this easy charisma megawatt smile whereas guardiola felt much more kind of awkward seemed a little bit more subdued didn't clearly didn't really like the vibe which is fine it's a room full of journalists and Klopp said that he really envied Guardiola his dedication his ability to be obsessive about football he said I don't I don't Klopp doesn't see himself as being like that now I'm guessing that's slightly untrue I think Jürgen Klopp to have been a manager for as long as he he was must be quite obsessive but I think he always had had other things that interested him there were other things that he was really keen on that will be true of Guardiola as well of course but I think even other managers look at Guardiola and think you watch an awful lot of football you analyze a game an awful lot you really really go overboard on the video analysis sessions and I think that is dedication obviously it must be passion but it's probably also a form of mania yeah I mean it is my dad was an obsessive mountain cyclist in his later years I think Britain's top in the north of England over 80 mountain climber god bless him he was insane for I think he felt that as long as he cycled, he couldn't die.

34:37It's not how it works, kids. But he spent a lot of his last years just saying to people, because he knew all he could talk about was cycling, and he knew he was boring people. And he'd always say, people say I'm obsessed. It's just passion. And I'd always say, dad, it's not. It's obsession. There's like a thin line. But once you're there, you're there. The way you describe Pep, he probably has a video analyst, his video analyzing. And he watches how he video analyses. Just like, I mean, he is. It is obsession and it is remarkable. It's been incredible to witness. But to this game and in the opening exchanges, whatever Pep had done to set it up, it became very clear, very quickly, how outgunned that Liverpool midfield was.

35:19I was told Alexis McAllister was returning to form. The Graven Birch was again imperious, but they were really tossed around early. Suddenly, Canate blew a clearance. A mischievous hungry Doku swooped in. Rounding Mameshvili in the Liverpool goal, still trying to fill Alisson's big bearded shoes. There was left knee to left foot. One of those looks a bit soft, but the pace, I guess, Doku was moving in real time. Small touch sends you completely off kilter. Penalty, up steps Haaland. 98 goals, hoping to blast his way to 100 faster than any human being before him. Raw, all that raw milk, all that fatty steak.

35:55I mean, he swoops in on the ball like a cartoon cat, a huge giant kidnapper in a cartoon. He just kind of paced, hungered, oddly stooped posture, little legs speeding in. It wasn't a terrible penalty. Mamesh really just redeemed himself, shouted in George and ball don't lie. You felt bloody good in that moment, didn't you? You felt like reprieve. Yeah, I thought it was a very harsh penalty's wrong. It was a very unlucky penalty to concede. It was a tiny, tiny touch. The slenderest of touches that only VAR spotted. I think you can certainly make a case that it wasn't a clear and obvious error if that means anything anymore.

36:31I don't know if it does, Rog. They keep changing the rules. But at the same time, that relief was tinged with an overwhelming sense of dread, if I'm honest, that City were very clearly better than Liverpool and they were starting to really make them worried. And there were still 75 minutes to play. Yeah, for me, the lesson is if you want to score at Palace, you don't send up a YouTuber to do the job. Isn't that right, Rog? Yeah, certain things can't be done by content creators. Yeah, just influencers. Yeah. It's pretty good for an influencer though. I mean, this city, remember, I think had won just once in eight games against Liverpool before this one.

37:05That's why this was such a shock because they completely were undeterred, unfettered. Doku, I mean, so much improved this season. Bossing that left flank, Mo Salah leaving Connor Bradley. Poor Connor Bradley, totally exposed. There was a moment when he ragdolled poor Connor at one point and then the moment, 22 pass move from their own corner flag upfield. Almost like, and this goal was fascinating. It was like an homage in many ways to Pep control ball of old Pep. The second time he came on this show, he told me that he dreams of at night the perfect goal. I said, what's the perfect goal? He said, where every outfield player touches a ball.

37:43That was this one. But it finished in the modern way. The modern Pep Guardiola style. The old gods meet in the new. By Erling Haaland. He laughs, laughs, laughs longer. The ball swung in stunningly by Nunes. And Canarte, who's become very much a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Canarte kind of player, got his mechanics totally wrong, didn't clear it, simply nodded it onto Haaland. I don't know how much he knew, but the net effect was instinctual. Just a looping header and a roar of victory. And mead drunk into the gods in Valhalla. 28 goals on the season, 19 for his club in 18 games. Karate kicking the corner flag like a Norwegian Mateta.

38:21It was an incredible moment. Inevitable. yeah inevitable from the basically from kickoff from the start of the season from the birth of Erling Haaland I don't know from the moment that he was foretold something yeah it it was coming there's never been a goal that was more coming as you say it was a slightly weird goal because I'm not sure it was a deliberate header but then I guess if you're a six foot five Norwegian jumping really really high behind the central defender it's the sort of stuff that happens City deserved it lovely move yeah maybe that blending of what Guardiola once was and what he has become partly to accommodate this sort of super weapon that he's got up front.

38:58It is a super weapon. Yeah, it is. And I think you said months ago that the Premier League title was Arsenal versus Erling Haaland. That looks like how it's playing out. But it is. It's a weapon that is really hard to stop. Canate, I guess you could say that it's indicative of where Liverpool are, that he is probably half a centimetre away from clearing that header and that goal not happening. But at the moment, it doesn't work like that for Liverpool. Yeah, nothing works. I mean, they struggle to muster a shot on goal. But set pieces are life itself. 39th minute off a corner. Van Dijk had the ball in the back of the net with a quite potent header, beating a flailing Donnarumma.

39:40And then on the replay, you saw little Andy Robertson ducking out the ball's path near the goal line. and just I love the way by the way he knew that there was going to be a problem he just kind of tried to move back into the pack of players almost whistling nothing to see here I thought this was crazy I'm a horrible person I meant to like just laugh at Liverpool but yes Andy Robertson was in the line of ball he was not in the line of the side of the goalkeeper I think Mike Dean the match official on Sky said it was the correct decision in accordance with the current interpretation of the law but I found the law Law 11 A player's offside if he's preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.

40:25Robertson was not in the goalkeeper's line of vision. He didn't stop Donnarumma from being able to get the ball. I have no idea what offside is anymore, just like I don't really know what handball is, Rol. Yeah, exactly the same. It's hard. Part of me wonders whether, obviously, do I think the goal should have stood because I wanted it to stand? It's very hard for me to separate those two things. My traditional instinct is that in those situations you are involved and the act of Robertson ducking out of the way might well draw Donnarum's eye from the ball. I think you are inherently active if you have to duck.

41:01But I am reminded, and several Liverpool fans online brought this up, that Manchester City scored a goal last season at Wolves in which Bernardo Silva was stood in front of Jose Saar and that one was allowed to stand. So at the risk of being incredibly repetitive and deeply cliched and hackneyed, it's the consistency of the interpretation. I think by the standard of Bernardo Silva and Jose Saar, that goal, the Van Dijk goal on Sunday, should have stood. It was fairly obviously... You could see from just the angles of it that Andy Robertson had nothing to do with anything. Part of me thinks if you're ducking, you are probably involved in the play.

41:37To be clear, this ruling, this moment ultimately was not the reason Liverpool lost. We will get to that. But I did hate for Virg. I mean, he'd run to the corner flag to celebrate. He shouted, come on! Let's go! All those words of football, the shout in those moments of trying to, you know, just articulate self-belief. hugged everybody, but then suddenly had to jog back to his own half as if he was chill and always knew it was offside, no big deal. And I wrote in my notes, I wrote, life is cruel, football is crueler, because Virgil's misery was compounded just before half-time. Nico Gonzalez, this day really was one of the motifs of this weekend was this was the day in which footballers were told by the crowd to shoot.

42:27They rarely do anymore because because modern football does not like the odds, the data of a long-range shot. But Nico Gonzalez did exactly what the crowd told him to. Low drive, of course. It had to be big verge. He put his leg up to block. Spanoff is fought past the keeper. God is cruel, Roar. Don't let you get theological on your ass, but dot, dot, dot. Yeah, it was a strange kind of wafting motion from Van Dijk. It lacked conviction. It looked really kind of, it looked really like non-committal in a way that, another of the great defenders of his era, my son, would not have tolerated, whilst keeping a clean sheet on Sunday, in the really big game of Sunday, an 8-0 win.

43:09Against? I don't want to say the team, it's not fair to say the other team's name, but we won 8-0. We kept a clean sheet for the first time in our history. And it was marked by several moments in which my son, who's quite tall, and wears a number four light Virgil van Dijk, saw shots trundling towards him and properly swung his boot at it and booted the ball away. Do you tell eight-year-olds that they should give their life to block? I've told all of them that several times. Yeah, you're only eight, but you should give your life to block the shot. This is very serious. No, it was a strangely non-committal thing for Van Dijk to do.

43:45It didn't look like a proper attempt at a block. But as much as I'm tempted to criticise him, I think the bigger mistake, and I'm not, you know, despite my coaching qualifications here, Roger, I'm not, you know, a tactical genius. Is it bad to let a player stand on the edge of your box and shoot? I think it might be. I think you should probably try and close that down. The City players from that short corner, short corner, blast from the past, played three passes on the edge of Liverpool's box and not a single Liverpool player got anywhere near them. And that is astonishing. Yeah, Pep Guardiola on the sideline in that moment, totally euphoric.

44:15City got the soft penalty. They had the Reds goal ruled out. They had the deflecting scrub goal. But they seem so much smarter, so much faster, so much sharper than Liverpool, who were so leggy. That was what was shocking. By the way, the City defensive backline played so brilliantly in this game. How often Liverpool were offside was really fascinating to witness. The discipline. Wurz, by the way, we've got to talk about him. He looked like a child for much of this game. Talking about under-8 football. One of my Liverpool supporting fans, Shalisa Castredale, texted me. She said, I think Liverpool pay$1 million each time Wurz has given the ball away in this game.

44:52The record is hard to say. 10 appearances in the league, zero goals, zero assists. I mean, this was at a time where the entire Liverpool team did not mount so much as a shot on goal in that first half. I guess the question is, can you rebuild your team around a player who is so clearly playing in anguish right now? Yeah, Gary Neville said, either on TV or on one of his many podcasts over here, that Vert looks like he's trying too hard. And I think that's probably right, that he's so desperate to make an impression that he's buzzing around to no general purpose. He's a difficult player to judge because to watch him, especially in the flesh, but I think on TV as well, you can see what a wonderful footballer he is.

45:34Can you? Yeah, certainly in the stadium. He is very obviously technically brilliant, bright, inventive, incredibly hard-working for a playmaker. There's so much there. Someone previously involved with Liverpool told me in the summer that when they signed him, They spent that money because he was all things to all men. He is kind of the perfect paradigm of a modern playmaker. He can be raw, but I remember when Thiago first played for Liverpool, we were similarly so ecstatically hyped. I remember the commentator in that first game just was marvelling. He goes, oh, the ball just sounds different when he hits it.

46:17In the Premier League, we often have to give new players coming into the league a wild card, a free pass. The Thierry Henry need a C, the Didier Drogba need a season to bed in. But when you're almost bedding your whole team's transformation around that one player, does it hold? I think it's not just that, Rog. I think it's that when you pay that much money for a player of that talent, from a league that is not physically dissimilar to the Premier League, a lot of the kind of idea around Verts here certainly is that he can't cope with the physicality of the Premier League. He's not come from the Wharfdale under sevens league.

46:51he's come from the Bundesliga that is also intensely physical are the players in the Premier League stronger than they are in Germany I think they're probably not to be perfectly honest they'll be very similar I think that price his experience his status you have a right to expect him to do something in a game and that's what really struck me against City was that I think if you watch Virts similar to Thiago it's really obvious straight away that he's an incredibly good footballer like I remember watching Thiago and occasionally Thiago would produce a performance that took your breath away and what did for Thiago was injury effectively and that's fine that happens it's sad Virts is not injured he just doesn't affect games at all and I think that given the amount they've paid for him given the role he's been given in the team given the way that Slott has structured the side around him it doesn't matter that he's a lovely player to watch it doesn't make a difference that he's aesthetically very pleasing doesn't really make a difference that he works incredibly hard to be perfectly honest you're buying someone to make a difference in games and there has not been a single game this season certainly in the premier league and i think maybe even in the champions league he's been better in the champions league but but not not game defining he has not dominated a single game florian verts does not take games by the scruff of the neck and decide them which is what you expect a player who costs that that much money to do and i do worry a little bit that it's not that he needs a transition season to get used to the physicality of the Premier League or that he needs to get used to his teammates.

48:22The fact that Liverpool are bedding a whole team in doesn't help. I worry that he's the sort of player who looks really, really good and it sells and thrives in a system. And if the system is not working, Virts is not effective. Oh, God, that is a dark note to end on. Because you talk about players who can take a game by the scruff of the next second half. It was Sobbersly started playing a more advanced role, gave Liverpool a foothold higher up the field. They brought on Gakpo, who was hungry, blew a chance over the bar, almost like an Everton striker. You had Nico O 'Reilly smothering Mo Salah.

49:02Liverpool couldn't live, though, with Jeremy Doku. I mean, just an interstellar level of performance from the very opening. I mean, this is a player who's always had flair. He's always had flourish. He's been accused of having very little, by the way, of end product, like a luxury player. But this season, there's been an intentionality about his play, a focus, a self-understanding almost raw. And in this game, he was utterly unplayable. When he took possession on the ball, and you knew what he was going to do with it before he even took that first touch, he just dropped his shoulder, fast feet, created separation again from Sad Canate.

49:41It was just a poem of a strike. that transformation how do you understand it and is it permanent? It's difficult to say on the permanent thing it is interesting Docter was brilliant against Borussia Dortmund in the Champions League as well four days earlier and it did feel as though one of the narratives that emerged from City beating Liverpool was Jeremy Docter who's the new star they've unearthed another one I'm not sure whether that holds up over the course of the whole season so far he does seem to have unlocked another level to his performance the test now I guess is sustaining it and as much as he is when he played like as he did yesterday and when he plays as he did against Dortmund you can see exactly why he's been considered so exciting for so long there is no way of knowing whether he will sustain it we will ultimately will find out whether that's that whether that's the case but what it looks like already is kind of proof that Guardiola a thousand games into management has still got it that he has taken this player who's always had incredible raw talent and shaped him into something devastating and if Doku can maintain it then it may well be that in six months time seven months time we are talking yeah largely about a team defined by Haaland and about Gianluigi Donnarumma's signing and all that stuff but Doku will be the great coaching triumph of the season because yet again Pep Guardiola seems to have found someone with ample ability and maybe a little bit of a lack of direction and giving them the tools to harness all of their promise into something that makes an impact giving him his own instruction manual in a way and and that self-awareness is what is unlocking or can unlock and by the way when you're like i don't know can it be sustained don't give me rationality give me hot takes raw just completely and utterly hyperbolicized let's go over the top because this performance is worthy of it three nil in truth city paddle Liverpool swatted them aside of ease on this day.

51:35This is Arnaz Slott's heaviest defeat in the Premier League. Seven losses now in 10 games. Goals hard to come by, conceding in bunches suddenly. I don't think they had a shot and goal until the 76th minute. Really bedraggled in that Manchester range. Six wins, five losses, all or nothing on this season. And this one hurts because we thought they'd found the equation. Stripping back the first team, dropping the newcomers, going back to what had delivered glory. Now they have to work out how to reset, find the momentum now, Raw. I mean, it's going to be a very long international break for Arnaz slot.

52:12And the question I've got for you, is this the real Liverpool Raw? Is the one we saw against Aston Villa and then against Real Madrid, is that actually the outlier? I think at the moment, Rog, yeah. You have to say that it is. They were genuinely excellent against Real Madrid and Real Madrid are top of La Liga. they drew with Real Vallecano over the weekend but they are still top of La Liga, they're still Real Madrid they've still got all that talent and Liverpool overpowered them they produced all of the things you would have expected from Liverpool last season in that game but they've done nothing of the sort for nearly two months there has been no sign of a performance like that maybe Eintracht Frankfurt a little bit but even that was a little bit more slapdash a little bit more chaotic Liverpool's fixtures after the international break look relatively kind they've got Nottingham Nottingham Forest at home West Ham away he says this with the familiarity of a man who's looked at this a lot Sunderland at home which is not easy but again it's a home game at Anfield they don't know what to do without the garbage blowing around them do they?

53:18And then Leeds away I think and you'd look at those normally and think that those are four games for Arneslot to bed in the system to get a bit of momentum back get a bit of confidence going I mean, you know, Isak fit again, maybe Alisson fit again. You know, this should be the chance for Liverpool to reset. But the way Liverpool have played over the last, yeah, two months, I don't think there's any reason to believe that they win any of those games, let alone all of them. There's no sign of a plan. Arna Slott's become very, very good at identifying after a game what the problem was, but no ability to stop it happening.

53:53And no sign actually, even more worrying really, that he's seen the issues coming. So he mentioned after the City game that they weren't prepared for the way that City swarmed players in the middle of the pitch. That's what Manchester City do. That's what they've been doing all season. Why were you not prepared for it? I saw a friend of mine at the Anfield Rap saying that Liverpool look badly coached. I think that's true. I think the chopping and changing between last season's idea and the new, you know, whatever he wants them to be has cost them not only rhythm, but confidence and confidence in him.

54:27And I don't see how that, you get any of that stuff back quickly. You might be able to rebuild it piecemeal over time, but what you lose in that time is anything. The title, I think, is gone, obviously. You do. Andy Robertson said that. I mean, by the way, Wayne Rooney would love this game. And I kept thinking, Wayne, just like, that's a night, that was a night. But you're not on camera. You're not on the mic. you're not by Big Verge you can't get your laughing Wayne Andy Robertson said that post game Liverpool have quote a huge uphill battle to defend the title that's the emotional conversation rationally I mean I was going to ask you kindly but you've just gone there it's a focus now Champions League football the title's gone yeah the title's gone completely there's no point thinking about the title I mean it's yeah I can see why Robertson would say that and mathematically obviously the season is long and you know it's eight points it's not unheard of to close eight points but the way they're playing it's not the results they've had and to be honest because of, to put my fan hat on, to take off my, you know, neutral observer hat.

55:27I've never noticed a difference. Put my pure fan hat on. Is the fan hat one of those baseball caps with a propeller on top, or is the fan hat the one with the two beer cans either side and the little plate getting it? It's a gigantic tinfoil helmet, Rob.

55:44I thought, going into the City game, because Arsenal had drawn, I thought, do you know what, whatever happens here doesn't really matter because I got myself used to the idea that Liverpool would be 10 points behind Arsenal going into the international break. And because Arsenal drew at Sunderland, that lead could only be eight. And so I thought, look, go to City. If you lose at City but you go down fighting, it's fine. Lose 2-1 to Manchester City. Give them a good game, but lose 2-1. That's OK. the meekness and the lack of organisation of the performance, I found really troubling and a particular kick in the teeth because of what happened on Tuesday night against Real Madrid.

56:23And it looked like they'd found something, but that turned out to be a mirage. And the one thing we've not mentioned here, Rog, is obviously the context of Liverpool's broader season, which is that we're not sure how the players are reacting to the grief that they are still feeling. And that continues to be a relevant factor. But it doesn't actually explain tactical shortcomings. it doesn't explain why they are unable to see how a team is going to try and beat them those are the basic tenets of the job and if they're not doing that i'm not sure you can say they're struggling emotionally also if they are struggling emotionally on an individual level then the club has a duty of care to remove them from the from from the pitch for a little bit maybe only for a week or two to give them a chance to kind of just take take a breath take a pause because it's an ongoing situation but it looks to me an awful lot like there's some very hard decisions that need to be made at Liverpool, there's some very difficult calls that need to be made and they require a degree of ruthlessness at this stage From the City perspective, a delirious day, again Liverpool had the upper hand in this really the past three, four seasons and the fans got to entertain themselves by singing you're getting sacked in the morning to a quite stupefied honour slot it was magnificent for them, capped off with the final whistle, ecstasy for Pep Guardiola.

57:40Win number, is it 716? Throttling a bedraggled Liverpool in his thousandth game. You couldn't get a better experience than that. And you can tell how proud he was as he walked around after the final whistle. But you could also, going back to that obsessive nature, even in this moment, the crowd singing his name is all about him and the final whistle. Couldn't stop. Broke it, you know, from the accolades, the claps. You know, to stop, to coach up Savinho in a very serious way. Foden couldn't help himself. you kind of saw in that moment this is a man who suddenly believes there's a bigger celebration to be had this season and it is City are beginning to hum and their true title challenges.

58:19Yeah, I think I've said before that the signing of Donnarumma really reminded me of Manchester United signing Robin van Persie from Arsenal all those years ago. It felt very much like a win now sort of signing. Let's not have any fancy talk of philosophies or ideas. Get me a gigantic Italian goalkeeper to go with my gigantic Norwegian striker and we will win either the Premier League or the Champions League or maybe both. They do look like they've found a rhythm. They look like they're in gear. There was a real kind of swagger and assuredness about their performance against Liverpool, which is really important.

58:52And yeah, combined with Arsenal dropping points, all of a sudden it's four points and Manchester City, who have, let's not forget, won six of the previous eight championships, are breathing down your necks. That's not a comfortable place to be. from one side of Manchester to the other. Tottenham 2, Manchester United 2. I suppose they were booed off last weekend at home after conjuring just 0.05 xG. Friction between star player and manager star player then goes full on Maradona 1986 on Copenhagen's asses. Destroys the whole side. We wondered which side would come in to face United. A team Spurs, yes, had beaten four times last season, including that Ange Viking funeral pyre that was the Europa League final.

59:35At United, now they were beaten in four, still proving themselves to themselves. And you had Thomas Frank picking two out-of-form strikers, Calumwani and Paul Richarlison. Rubin went strikerless, so no surprise the opening exchanges were blunt. In fact, Spurs strikers barely bloody touched the ball, and the first goal came, Spurs struggling to build out the back. United ultimately arced in a lethal cross, and boom, this was a fantastic goal. The way he almost knew what he was going to do before the ball even started to fly towards him, His confidence in his technique as he rose up, his shiny bald head just in the London smog, glinting as he caressed at home.

1:00:13Raw, is there a team with a bigger XG in haircuts right now than United? That fan with the uncuttable hair representing the supporters and the gent leading the transformation at the side. Mbumo, he's a bald sex god. If I was a United fan and I had hair, two massive ifs, I would just shave my hair off, become bald by choice like Mboumo right now. Yeah, him and Cunha have become real standard bearers, haven't they, for the new green shoots of Manchester United. The idea that United are finally a club starting to go somewhere. And I think, I'm not going to claim to be wise after the event with Cunha, because I was a bit unsure about Cunha.

1:00:53but I think Mbwemo, you could see straight away, was going to be... You've seen what he'd done at Brentford. It looked like his skill set was really easily transferable to a higher level and he's slotted in seamlessly. He wanted Manchester United. That alone should be kind of commendation enough that he wanted to sign for Manchester United so much he signed for this Manchester United. But he's really kind of become a bit of a spiritual leader, I think. I think that's true. Ruben Amarim came on our show last week. You can find it Thursday on our YouTube. Talked about how Cunha and Abumo, as well as the goals, the play and all that stuff, he talked about how their hunger, their mentality has changed the entire team.

1:01:31I found this fascinating moment. I had no idea whether it is or no rule, as Abumo scored on Thomas Frank, his manager at Brentford. Can you celebrate when you score against your old manager? Turns out you can, Roo. Yeah, 100%. I think there's a risk that footballs get into the stage where you're not allowed to celebrate at all because you might offend somebody. I feel like that would be a problem, Rog. You can definitely celebrate if you store against the team containing someone you used to work with. Yeah, that'd be just amazing. It's fine. If you gave that, football's just going to be reduced to no celebrations, just the booing.

1:02:04And I think, by the way, it could be all the better for it. By the way, talking about booing, Spurs fans got their boos ready at halftime. Second half, Uderberg came on for the very lost Mouane. He gave Spurs more brain. Thomas Frank, though, still probably the most shocked man in the stadium when his blunt team came alive late. 84th minute, substitute young Tell. Whenever I see him, I always think about Chris Berman. He'd call him, I think he'd call him Kissand, or however he speaks. But he's spanning the box, Tell, and unleashed a shot, heavy deflection. But God bless, as Thomas Frank quoting Michael Scott, quoting Wayne Gretzky, quoting Kissand, Tell, you miss 100 % of the shots you don't take.

1:02:44Suddenly, United in bits. They've got this crazy habit of actually conceding two goals in bunches. Cesc Oan is sublimped off after being shut down on a one-on-one. Poor kid. So down to 10 men. Really listing. United, by the way, one minute you're hanging on to second place, but the 91st minute, corner half cleared. Odebe, last one in. And Richarlison, unmarked, instinctually flicked it on with his head. Cue utter bloody raptures. It's been so long for him since he's been the hero. The fans delirious. Shocked and delirious. You saw shots and just flicking the Vs at the United fans who seconds earlier were dreaming of the lofty height to second.

1:03:25It was astonishing, Raw. It was unbelievable. I felt terrible in the moment for all those Spurs fans who'd come to the stadium just to boo. It's disappointing. It's really frustrating when things that you're expecting to happen don't come true. So lots of Spurs fans have gone just to boo and they were denied the chance to boo at full-time as well as half-time. Sometimes you can plan perfectly and things don't work because that is the ideal marking strategy for Richarlison. He is not going to score, leave him unattended. It's fine. They weren't marking Vicario because he was standing in his own goal and not going to score.

1:04:00Similar to Richarlison. And then wouldn't you know it, he sticks out his leg, possibly by accident, and scores a goal. United had every reason to feel hard done by. The man who doesn't score a goal is scoring a goal. You can't legislate for stuff like that, Roger. It's not possible. Yeah, Richarlison, he's essentially become a bit like Ben Simmons, who you just never have to put a player on because you just know he's never going to score, especially the optimal three. Is that your theory? Poor guy has been struggling so hard this season. You know, Tottenham, all the chatter about bringing Ivan Toni back, bringing any scorer who could score.

1:04:33In that moment, ran off, ripped his shirt off. He just scored the winner in his mind. Sobbed on the field. Sobbed. Probably thinking just how close he was to coming, being loaned back to Everton, right, Rob? does kind of make you think if there's a point where you may be we all just need to hold our horses a little bit and remember that the final whistle has not blown until the final whistle has blown so you don't want to be caught crying on the pitch when there's still a game to play it's an incredible statistic, true statistic preceding disastrous events from Statman Dave Tottenham are winless in every game when Richarlison takes off his shirt I think he's done it twice now thinking he'd scored the winner only for Spurs to concede a.k.a.

1:05:15never take your shirt off too early. And so it came to pass United's second week on the run. They've not played great, but they have played tenaciously. I mean, this is under scrutiny. Their new essence is to respond two weeks on the run, 96 minutes this time off a corner. Matthias de Licht went full on Harry Maguire cover band, headed finish. United fans who'd been taunted by Spurs seconds earlier, suddenly they were the ones doing the gloating. It is remarkable. I asked Amorim in that interview, what the true pleasure of football is. You actually told me to ask this question, Roy. I asked him, what is the true pleasure of football?

1:05:50His answer was simple, winning. He said, winning is the best feeling in the world. That header, watching it sneak inside the post, must have felt the closest to a non-win-win. Drawing is the best feeling in football, Rog. Everyone knows that. Yeah, it's a funny one, isn't it? Because both teams, I don't know how you'd feel emotionally in that situation. United will feel relief and delight, I guess, but also a little bit like they've got away with one Spurs will feel robbed and furious but also quite happy because they a point at home, a big boy point at home but also the dopamine hit of storing those two goals and seeing your team turn round from 1-0 down in the 83rd minute to 2-1 up in the 95th minute that dopamine is still in your system do you know what I mean?

1:06:36It doesn't just go away it would have left a lot of people sort of walking the streets of North London very confused, Rog. That's my main sense of that game. You saw at the final whistle, both managers looked absolutely shattered and quietly devastated, but both relieved because neither of them would spend the international break, you know, getting absolutely ripped by the media. And this game, more than anything, just showed the thin, the pretenders used to sing the song about how there's a thin line between love and hate. There's an even thinner line between glory and doom in the Premier League.

1:07:06And at the end of the day, Roar, who was this more important to? Both sets of fans got the joy of flicking two fingers up and down each other in ecstasy, which, by the way, it's why we're watching the first place. United, six minutes from victory, threw it away. But Brightside, first time in five games undefeated. And I'm not mocking Spurs. A point at home is a massive thing. Ruben Amarin, quite fascinating. He supplied the counter narrative. He always briefs against himself. We have a lot of problems. I know people see results and think we're improving. We're not. I love him. Spurs, though. been without Dominic Zolanki, James Madison, Kulishevsky for most of the season.

1:07:42They've lost Bergval and Mohamed Kudus last weekend and still able to grind something out. There's a great comment in our Discord from Matt T Cook. My sense is if you'd offered any Spurs fan last spring that they could have the Europa trophy. Thomas Frank can be sitting within touching distance of the top four after 11 games. They'd have given you a kidney to make it happen. And yet all of us talk about the team in ways that read like Sylvia Plath. That's just modern football, isn't it, Rob? They've got the Europa League trophy, a hugely talented manager, and they are in the thick of the race for the Champions League.

1:08:17Boo. Talking about boo, the agony of my sporting weekend. Aston Villa 4, Bournemouth 0. A game that was thrilling in prospect, ultimately turned into Bass manager on Bass manager violence. Bournemouth, we want to see how they rebounded just their second loss of the season to Harlan and Manchester City. They could have gone second if they had the win. The game itself to me was actually undermined early on. A hideous head-to-head collision between Tyler Adams and his teammate Adam Smith. Really hard to rebound from that kind of a thing emotionally, especially for a team that love to have a fast start.

1:08:52There were two free kicks then from almost identical positions. Bournemouth had Tavernier step up and he blasted it into Rosie. But then Buendia took Villas. I actually knew he was going to. I wrote in the Discord, the Men in Blazers Discord, I said, this is going to be a goal. The way he caressed it, Roar, with the touch of a tender love. It was a game that was like exhibit A for elite football. It's all about making the very complex look very simple. Yeah, and making the most of your opportunities. The lead itself is so finely balanced. There isn't much between Villa and Bournemouth, to be honest, in terms of the different styles, but in terms of quality and ability to win games and all that stuff.

1:09:30And they're very evenly matched. You have to make the most of your opportunities. and that's what Villa did. Buendia himself is quite a nice story though. Does it look like Villa had moved beyond him at least once, if not like three times? But because of their, to an extent, self-inflicted financial problems, he has been able to kind of reclaim a place and that's nice to see his kind of re-emergence as a talent. And he really drew Villa forward. They seized the initiative, total control, pressed Bournemouth into mistakes and then pounced. Second goal by Amadou Nanna, another one of the weekend where the crowd shouted, choose, which he did.

1:10:03First goal of the season. He ran off to the sidelines, celebrated with the joy of a kid on the schoolyard, just crowning himself, which I adored. Amadou Inanna, the one royal I'm prepared to believe in. There was an Anton Semenyo penalty miss. Oh, God, you come on our show for an interview. Curse of Rog. Fine save to be candid by Emi Martinez. An incredible move by Unai Emery. Most managers would try and close the game down. He pushed on more attacking pieces Ross Barkley, Sancho Tillemans, and he let them feast, all contributed to the two goals that blew the game open late on. It was a devastating loss for Bournemouth, a team who have had the mindset where they could beat anyone.

1:10:44That was not on display yesterday. Seven goals leaked in two weeks for Irola to now mull over. This is amazing, Roar. He's faced Unai Emery seven times. He's now lost five, drawn two, never won. How does that work, Roar? Do you believe one manager can always have an almost Shakespearean mastery over another? Not in every case, but I think with someone like Iriola, it is possible because you kind of know what his teams are going to do. There are threads that join Bournemouth with Rayo Vallecano. There are certain moves that he will prefer that Emery will be able to identify and possibly negate.

1:11:19I don't think that will hold forever. At some point, Andoni Iriola will beat Aston Villa. But Emery has it as well. Crystal Palace always smash Aston Villa. I don't understand what it is, but Crystal Palace, every time they play Villa, destroy them. There's obviously just something about the balance of the way the managers play or the way the team's set up. Something that swings it decisively in one direction. I suppose with a more pragmatic, more adaptable manager, maybe not possible if you don't know what someone's going to do. But with their Iola, yeah, it is possible that Emery just kind of has an answer to whatever he wants to try.

1:11:51Maybe because they're both speaking in the Bas language, so he actually understands it. And it was actually an odd delight, this game, hearing two bass shouting the whole game. So, good, Scott. Good move, Scott. Come on, Olly Watkins. It was just a beautiful, beautiful soundtrack to the game. They're both incredible human beings, as is Tyler Adams, who will join me this week to talk about the change in mentality at Bournemouth this season after last season's odyssey. That will drop this upcoming Thursday. To Chelsea. Incredible. More booing. Three, Wolves, nil. Poor Wolves, bedraggled, tattered, doomed.

1:12:30Most crucially bereft of anything resembling fight. As Chelsea worked out belatedly how to absolutely hammer them. Wolves have ex-looted to Middlesbrough, handsome young manager Rob Edwards, who has somehow been persuaded to leave his championship challenge in Middlesbrough to take on the relegation scrap at his local club Wolves, where he once played and coached and still lives close to. But man, I hope he wasn't watching this game, which was over the moment Mureska pulled a well-intentioned but wildly uncalibrated Liam De Lapp. Rarely has a player screamed more January loan to Everton. And replaced him with young sparkler Estevão, Wolves could not handle really anything.

1:13:12The energy, the three-dimensionality that he brought on with him surged onto the field and utterly just the defence collapsed. Alejandro Garnaccio got two assists in the game for the first time. Chelsea Raw, they are so bloody fascinating. If we did an emotional table, the way fans essentially feel about their team, they would probably be, they'd be bottom half, probably lower for sure. Just a fume, the distrust, the disbelief in Enzo Muresco and his squad management, his constant rotation, his substitutes, his lack of coherence. 93 changes to the starting lineup this season, by far the most. His squad is like bigger than the ocean and the stars.

1:13:49He's definitely a shuffler, but no one else has had a Club World Cup campaign to shatter their players before the season even began. The team are in third row. They are in third. I would bite your arm off. I go on the record. They're six points back from Arsenal. Is that good? It's so good. So how do you understand the dislocation between reality, performances and the table and just the emotional angst with, which Morescu just can never bloody shake? For a man who knows nothing, who subs badly, who can't work out his best 11, and his team are doing bloody well. Yeah, and as you say, in light of the Club World Cup, it's an incredible achievement, given the injury problems they've got, given how fatigued that whole side must be.

1:14:26You do worry whether that might catch up with them to an even greater extent later on in the season. But there's no question that Mureska has made the most of the hand that he has been dealt. And the fury, I guess, from Chelsea fans, it seems partly to be that there's not really an emotional bond with Mureska, and I don't know why that would be, but they just don't seem to have taken to him. That does happen. there's a little bit, I think, of the amount of churn at the club makes it very difficult for the fans to latch on to anybody in particular. That's maybe not that healthy. And then you hear complaints about the style of football, just as you did at Leicester when Moresca got them promoted.

1:15:07There were Leicester fans who did not take to his football. And the three things, all wrapped up in a bow, I suppose, have made him a kind of begrudging presence. Like they're third and he's doing well, but I suppose he's doing all right is kind of the general vibe at Chelsea. And that is odd because what he's done is really quite remarkably successful given the circumstances. Club World Cup. Yeah, but you know, Chelsea fans, drop us a line, meninblazers at gmail.com. We'd love to know really what you're feeling in that emotional, rational discrepancy. talking about discrepancies Brentford 3 Newcastle 1 2 and open the score in this one 2 Harvey Barnes fantastic goal like a hang grenade with his pin out total misdirection Brentford ran rampant Igor Thiago screwing twice he's the latest there to Brentford's elite striker crown they are a factory Ollie Watkins begat Ivan Toni begat Brian and Bumo and Johan Wieser they're gone but now they've got Igor Thiago 8 goals this season the most by any human being not named Erling.

1:16:14We were told rookie manager Keith Andrew would be a disaster. He's got Brentford 12th ahead of Newcastle. They've been Manchester United, Villa, Liverpool at home, now Newcastle too. The Brentford fans got to sing Are You Watching, Yoan Wiese, which must have been an utter delight. The tune, winless. This is incredible. Last nine Premier League away games, nine points dropped from leading positions too. First in the league in that quite unwanted category. two points off the relegation zone. All those Nick Valtamade good vibes burnt off. Real concern for Eddie Howe. Roar, we were told all that Saudi money, richest owners in the world trademark, would transform them into a smiting powerhouse.

1:16:56Instead, Sunderland, their neighbours, have surged. The tuna are really dead squibbing. Yeah, they seem to be trapped in a sort of stasis. Their performances aren't that bad. And if you look through the team, and in fact the squad, it's really hard to explain because they've got probably the best midfield in the league certainly the most physical the most intense they've got a squad that is much better equipped than it was two years ago to compete in Europe and in the Premier League and yet their performances have been so kind of lethargic and whether I don't know whether the Alexander-Izac deal has cursed everyone involved in it maybe that's what's happened but more broadly there is definitely I think there is a question mark and it's one that Newcastle fans are starting to ask more and more about just how committed the Saudi ownership is to the club because there hasn't been a huge amount of evidence for it and a lot of that's been blamed on PSR, on the hated rules that prevent Newcastle spending.

1:17:54They've actually spent quite a lot of money and all the stuff they're allowed to do, rebuilding the training ground, they haven't done. There's a lot of stasis at Newcastle and for the first time since what in the four years since the takeover I guess there are signs that those questions aren't coming from you know journalists who get accused of wanting Newcastle to fail for reasons that never actually explained they're coming from the fans themselves in other games Crystal Palace nil Brighton nil the Premier League's most heartfelt non-geographically based rivalry Crystal Palace and Brighton fans both hate each other for really a confluence of historical slights way back in the 70s that no one can really cohere, but my god, everybody fails.

1:18:36First meeting of the two clubs since Palace won the FA Cup. A lot of edge before the game. Heavy old school policing. Football reflection maybe of Palace's quite hectic packed schedule catching up with the minds and the legs of their players. Brighton were not able to take advantage. I'll say get well soon, Mark Gehi. Palace's sword and shield suffered a quite bad foot injury in the Conference League win midweek. Palace fans, though, enjoyed watching his long-term replacement, they hope. 19-year-old French kid, Jadie Canva, who filled in with a flourish. Less of a flourish. Nottingham Forest, three.

1:19:13Leeds, one first. Three points for Sean Dyche back in his third time of asking. Forest's first Premier League win in a giant 10 matches. Moves them within one point of safety. Another opening goal of misdirection. This one assisted by Brendan Aronson for Leeds, but within 135 seconds, Forrest back in it. This was really watching two blunt, low-confidence teams go at it from that point. And I'd say the organisation Deitch has brought, it really was the difference here. Omari Hutchison's introduction changed the game. Forrest surged late. Leeds fans now have to mull once again over whether their manager, Daniel Farker, is really championship calibre and will drag his team down to that level.

1:19:55But, Roar, enormous win for Deitch. It is so tight in the bottom of the table. The whole table is tight. It feels like almost everybody's on bloody 18 points. Going into the international break now, all those gravel voice good vibes and checks notes, Liverpool at Anfield when the Premier League returns into our loving arms. That was a huge result, really. It can't be overstated in significance in the reality of that relegation battle. Yeah, two wins in a row. It's going to be great, this one and the one at Anfield. The international break's kind of weird, isn't it? For some teams, it comes at a really bad time.

1:20:27And for others, it's really helpful. And it can be helpful for positive reasons and negative reasons. I think for Deitch, going into the international break with that feeling of we have just beaten a relegation rival, we've done it relatively easily, smoothly, that will fill the team with confidence. And without wanting to be too negative, Rog, I think he'll look at Anfield and think, do you know what, this is quite a good game for us. Not just stylistically, but because it's a bit of a free hit. So if you lose at Anfield and you're Forrest, that's fine. You weren't expected to win anyway. But if you get something, that's a massive bonus.

1:21:01Oh, Roy, you're turning into me, speaking out your worst outcomes to try and defend yourself from their emotional pain. West Ham 3, Burnley 2, 18th place, hosting 17th in the Claret and Blue Classico. And a West Ham game which began in a now standard way with their suffering fans marching a coffin in the hearse through the streets near the stadium to protest their ownership. They had a banner that said 15 years of denying West Ham United, which is just true. I mean, it's so bloody emotionally powerful. But despite the discontent with the front office on the field, Nuno quietly giving West Ham life.

1:21:38Pretty dire, going to be candid, a goal fest born of slop and meagre gruel of action. Two goalkeepers just handing out chances to the opposition as if they were kombucha samples at your local Whole Foods. highlight perhaps the secret joy of witnessing Kyle Walker and Kyle Walker-Peters on the field at the same time, in the end, the bubble brigade earned their second straight win, meaning they've taken more points in the last six days than in the previous 10 weeks. Is this how it is now for West Ham fans under Nuno for the rest of the season? It's just grim, pragmatic, kind of su-checking their way to the points.

1:22:13Is that what passes his glory? That will have to pass his glory for this season. but I think what those two games actually Forest and West Ham what they really indicate is that they are obviously both in the bottom three they are two sides who've had dreadful starts to the season but they do have a lot of quality they've got far more quality than they've shown so far this season certainly and they have enough quality that I think if I was Leeds or Burnley I'd be worried by them getting their act together you know you've got a team in West Ham who have very little to recommend them but have a playmaker of the quality of Lucas Paquetar that's not a great thing to have coming up on the rails behind you.

1:22:49And finally, wow, did this really happen? Everton Football Club 2, Fulham 0. Stand a bit taller after this one. Look, I mean, we are lacking a striker. That is a human agony right now. We've got Beto, whom I love. We've got young Roar, Tierno, Barry. It's a conundrum. Roar, you're a football man with no compassion. If you had to choose one out of, stay with me here. Barry Diller, Barry Manilow, or Tierno Barry to start up from who you're choosing. I don't know who Barry Diller is, Rog. This is one of your American references that goes completely over my head. Who would I choose out of Barry Cryer to respond with a Yorkshire reference?

1:23:26Yeah, that's like an old kind of 1970s British television talk show. A beloved comedian, just with an asterisk that I'm not sure whether he's problematic. We've got a lot of Barry Cryers at Everson. go on you've got to go Manolo right Tierno Barry has not done a huge amount to prove that he should keep Manolo out of the team Rog to be honest he can hear Manolo in training the but I he did enough for Villarreal to be worth persevering with we talked about Jeremy Docku this episode haven't we this week sometimes you just have to coach players to make them a bit better give them time give them space he's so young he's so young give them their own instruction manuals it's so unbelievably cruel We had David Moyes on stage in New York City, and they just signed Barry.

1:24:15And I asked on stage, expecting that he'd be like, yeah, he's a great kid. He's going to change things on the field. Moyes, if you listen back to that, he said, yeah, we paid, what was it, like 27 million. You don't get much for 27 million. He's a raw prospect. That's what he is. And by the way, Barry's just a kid, and he tried so hard in this game, in this game, gave his all. He's actually become a cult hero at Everton, despite not scoring, because he's so emotionally articulate post-games. his posts where he talks about his relationship with the crowd, how they lift him, what they bring to him, what he dreams of, what he yearns for.

1:24:44It's really, I mean, he's a beautiful human being and God bless, I hope the goals come. But there is, like, there's a symbol of the good vibe there in him. But also underlying the good vibe, there's a true moment of challenge ahead of this one. We'd won just one in our last seven, despite the Hill Dickinson good vibe. And we had to battle Fulham, who always seemed to do us. Ghost of Christmas past under Marco Silva. Alex Iwobi lives to do us, torments us. I think we've won just once in the last eight against Fulham. We press with venom. We have three goals chalked off for offside. We finally scored a big one.

1:25:18And when you can't get goals from your strikers, it's good to have such a potent defensive midfielder. Just a go on a gag, slapped home. Michael Keane got another one off his shoulder. God bless him, just like he did in training. Who needs strikers, I guess? That's what we're the living proof of right now, Rourke. you're finding a way and that is what Moyes does I'd love to say Roger I thought what was more interesting about this game than Everton who are doing what Everton were always going to do this season which is finish 13th and not score many goals would you be a bit worried if you were Fulham?

1:25:51I think I might be five defeats in six games I think you'd probably I might I mean obviously the bottom three of Wolves, Forest and West Ham are three established Premier League teams Forest a little bit lesser than the other two I suppose we've been looking at them and thinking if they get their form together which Forrest and West Ham seem to be then then it's Leeds it's Burnley probably not Sunderland anymore is those are the teams that they might catch but Fulham look like they're drifting and drifting in the Premier League is really dangerous the lack of fight I will say that they showed was staggering and there's a sense speaking to Fulham fans people who watch them week in week out Marco Silva are constantly tipped to be moving to a bigger club, that wears on you.

1:26:32And it's almost like he's become dislocated from the project he's leaving in the present by that constant rumination about his future. God bless. They were truly terrible here. They made us look solid. I don't know, Michael Keane, but the one thing I've got, how is there not a song for Keane when he rose up and dunked the ball in off his shoulder? God bless him like a dime store, Harry Maguire. How is there not like the Bonnie Tyler's I need a hero. Just like I need a keynote. I need a keynote. I need a keynote till the end of the night. Get it going. I don't know how to start these songs from 3 ,000 miles away, but I need a keynote till the end of the night.

1:27:08Are we aware of the best song of the season, Rog? Has that crossed your path? Tell the world this. By the way, you've already given us the best movie is Independence Day, so my expectations are a little overgone. This one is, I would recommend that anyone seek out the heart song for Claudio Braga is absolutely magnificent. it's one of those where I think if there's a team who have a player whose name scans into the song Radio Gaga you're about to hear an awful lot of copycat versions, that is my tip my cultural tip for the wheat grudge find the heart song for Claudio Braga it's to the tune of Radio Gaga by Queen, the 1970s British rock band and it's refra - people know who Queen is real I don't know, you don't know what chocolate oranges are I don't know what these people are dealing with the um, the I don't know their limitations the the refrain is all we need is Claudio Braga Claudio Braga yeah Claudio Braga but it's got a full it's fully it's fully it's fully it's fully it's fully it's fully it's fully it's fully it's fully it's fully it's fully it's fully it's a depth of the lyrics yeah I mean it's not up there but I need a key no I need a key oh my god I'm holding out for a key note till the end of the night it's gorgeous and after what that man has suffered in a Harry Maguire-esque way never said a bad word about you Michael Keane.

1:28:25He deserves it, man. He deserves it. By the way, I had no idea how much players love those moats. Jordan Pickford, when I asked him what it feels like to hear your song sung by the former Gladys, he went off on that for so long. As a football fan in Sunderland, singing the songs myself, I know what they've... It's beautiful. Make it happen. I need a key. Now, really important win. Manchester United up next. But here's the statistic, Raw. Everton Football Club remain undefeated at the Hill Dickinson when I'm not there. that's all you need to know that's all you need to know Jonah and the wheel baby let's finish with a letter from our mailbag from Susan Key to Morrigan Roar do the honours Roger and Rory I read a piece in the Guardian about the deluge of young players in the Premier League this season Max Dowman who's like 13 15 maybe 16 now but yes point taken Rio at Liverpool Josh King at Fulham Estevão and more I'm 20 and they make me feel old do you remember the moment you were both older than the footballers who were playing was it like an early midlife crisis oh my god by the way Max Stallman is the ultimate what did I do wrong with my life Blair when he came on in the Champions League 15 years and 300 days Ro and I'm still waiting for my call up here it was genuinely that was probably the moment this midweek when I thought maybe it's not going to happen maybe maybe it's not going to happen for me but there are what was that snort Ro that snort came from that place I don't want to hear it it's the fact that We all have that.

1:29:52So I did a TV thing this week, or last week, with Joe Hart and Asmir Bedovic, who have both retired. Oh, no, Bedovic is still playing at Leicester, but Joe Hart's retired. And I think of Joe Hart as being veteran player. He won't thank me for saying this, but by the time players reach that stage of their career, you'll be like, well, they're kind of yesterday's news. They're kind of old man Hart playing in goal for whoever. Joe Hart is five years younger than me. And I was a bit like, this is too much. But the moment I remember thinking, footballers are too young now, was when David Moyes, looking like a fresh-faced, granite-hewn, up-and-coming young manager, unleashed a large child onto the pitch at Gunnison Park.

1:30:43And that large child promptly stalled from 30 yards against Arsenal. And Wayne Rooney was 16 at that stage. I'll tell you how old he was. He was 16 years, nine months, 24 days. And I was 20. And it was very much like, hang on, he doesn't get to be that young. No, that's not allowed. Footballers were older than me. That's so true. And Rooney was so dramatically younger than me. I wonder if it happens a lot at Susan's age now, where the players who are the hot young things are coming through and they are not just your age, but they are like, hang on, those people are younger than me. I wonder if that's the point that it really hits you.

1:31:23I mean, it's fascinating because I'm similar and that's the same memory as I have but in a slightly different way. Well, you should know, Susan, when we grew up, when we were young, the English Premier League, the English football, it was populated by older men. There weren't that many young teens playing football. It was really older, balding men who lived to do open knee surgery. Football was so different. Essentially, everybody on the field just wanted to kick the crap out of each other and then shuffle off and have a pint and a pie and a cigarette at half time. This rise of teenagers has been, well, it's been one of the story of the past few seasons.

1:31:59Football becomes more about speed and movement and more, you know, they're trained better at younger ages mentally. They're bred to be elite footballers and it becomes more about energy and matchups, one-on-one duels. So you do get these teams with that vigor. You know, same for me though, Rour, when I thought about this question. When I was a kid, 22 or 23 was young for a footballer. By the way, 27 or 28 was old. That was like the window. And for me, it was the same. Wayne Rooney coming on at that age, August 17, 2002. I realized in that moment, he could have been my son if I'd had a kid when I was 14.

1:32:39But stay with me here. It's possible. And the amazing thing is, Raw, now, Wayne Rooney looks twice my age. Yeah, I have aged much better than Wayne Rooney. I mean, who's the real winner here? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Life is full of twists and turns, Susan. So if it is freaking you out, it's a long, bored game. I am still going to get a call-up for the United States. Never let go of your dreams, listeners. Right, Rob? Absolutely. It's interesting. You're right that footballers age in a weird way. So I remember Michael Owen's debut for Liverpool when he was 17, and I would have been nearly 17.

1:33:14and it didn't occur to me we were the same age. So my granddad, who played for Birmingham and Coventry, Rog, when he first broke into the Birmingham team, he was described as a bright young thing and he was 28.

1:33:29So these things change. And already a granddad. Already looked like a granddad. These things change. I mean, unfortunately, they're moving in the direction away from us, but still they change. You never know. They might bounce back. God bless. Everything has a reaction and a counter-reaction. Susan, send us your post or we'll send you a coveted Men in Blazers patch. Keep sending your letters and questions for Roar and me. Meninblazers at gmail.com. That is it for today. Before we go, we want to give one more huge thanks to the Bank of America, official Bank of US Soccer and the FIFA World Cup 2026 for supporting us at the Men in Blazers Media Network.

1:34:06Gives us so much strength to do what we do, discover what's possible in sports and in life. What would you like the power to do? We are in New York City this week. We're actually off tomorrow night to the Stone Pony in New Jersey. I can't wait for this live show tomorrow to play that venue. History, the American-ness of it all, the Springsteen-ness is what life is all about. We've got Tyler Adams and more coming up this week during the international break. Rumours of a Flo Balogun appearance, but big thanks to you, Rory Smith, you Crown Prince of Harrigan. Just delighted that there's no Premier League football for a couple of weeks, Roger.

1:34:40I can have a weekend where it doesn't break my heart. I'm devoured. I am totally devoured. This is Rog sending you big, big love. Let's not take a second. Watching football together for granted. Encourage.