Tommy Fleetwood on life as an Everton obsessive, his first PGA tour win, and golf tips for Pep Guardiola: Men in Blazers 12/09/25

0:00You're listening to the Men in Blazers Media Network Suboptimal Radio. What'll happen first? Tommy Fleetwood wins the Masters or Everton win the Premier League? Well, the Masters is in April, so hopefully me. If you could only choose one, it would be the Masters, then, right? Well, yeah, but don't tell anyone that.

0:30My guest today is a man known for his good vibe, classic goal swing, and for being America's Ryder Cup dad. At the age of 34, he's quite inspirationally surging into the form of his life. I'm not going to lie. I also adore him because he's a lifelong Everton obsessive who plays with an Everton crest on his golf bag and on his wedge. And it is a true joy and a privilege to welcome one of the most universally cherished winners in sports. It's Mr. Tommy Fleetwood. Hey, Rich, how are you doing? We don't have enough Everton fans on this show, Tommy. But I do want to talk about the goal first because we're talking December 2025, at the end of a career year for you, incredible year, surging, thrilling Ryder Cup victory.

1:12And then before that, your first PGA Tour victory in August at Atlanta's Eastlake on the Tour Championship. And after 30 top five near misses, it was honestly like watching a golf Sisyphus just push that rock finally to the top of the mountain. It was incredible. In your mind, can you explain exactly what changed so we can all learn from it? like honestly kind of nothing is is the answer that i would give it's just that i i feel like i had been i put it as that image you know you get that image where there's a guy like chipping away for diamonds and then he gives up right before he gets to the diamonds i just felt like i i just kept chipping away i always felt like if i just keep putting myself there keep having a good attitude keep doing the right things like it was gonna happen and then it did but the simple answer is kind of nothing changed in a way.

2:03It was just the accumulation of such like a long portion of consistency and hard work. And I'm glad I got it done. I feel like I've walked miles to meet the Buddha on the mountaintop and the Buddha said to me, nothing. Like there's no secret to life. But there is also ultimately tenacity is really at the core of your story, which is why I admire you. How have you changed since the win identity wise? that's something I think I still got to um figure out a little bit because because it's easy for me again like I answer a question and you ask me what's changed and I would say nothing but like things have changed I have won when it had been such a long time where I hadn't won on the PGA tour and things do change with that I tried to make sure I had such a good attitude throughout all the near misses all the losses that as soon as I won I was like well I'm not going to change that like I'm going to look at it in the same way I'm going to enjoy it but you know it wasn't just about this one win.

2:56I think I learned a lot throughout this summer in the way that I forced myself to handle things and look very positively at things that could be so disappointing. And I don't know, tenacity is a really nice word to describe me. But yeah, I tried to be very relentless in how I was going about it and working hard and trying to put myself up there again. And there's definitely things that have come out of this summer that I need to like process and definitely like jump on because I think there's been a good amount of growth there that I need to use going forward. It's really interesting. Arsene Wenger once told me that tenacity is actually the value that separates the great footballer from a merely good one.

3:33He knew what he was doing, sir. Yeah, I mean, he was also speaking to one of the most untenacious human beings in the world. So I found it really, really inspirational. This episode is brought to you by our good friends at Verizon, a proud supporter of the global game and the players who inspire us on and off the field. As an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026, Verizon's honoured to help share the stories of the world's top players. Stay tuned for more on how Verizon can get you connected to the game we love. But back to you, Tommy, because I want the power to talk about the Ryder Cup.

4:05The team format of that competition is almost like the World Cup of Golf, probably closest the sport gets to a brutal away day in football. What's the secret to blocking out the noise when you're used to silence, when you pull that club back and not, well, abuse? I do sort of think of football as a good example it's not a regular thing for us to play in in that kind of atmosphere both home and away by the way so I did try and look at that and and think about what the what the players do and how they handle it I mean for me when the Ryder Cup came about and this one in particular when it was an away Ryder Cup and you know that the crowd are an energy source and whether they're with you or against you you're gonna have to use it to your advantage in some way you know that's one of the great things about the Ryder Cup is the home and away crowd and in no way should the away crowd be on our side or supporting us and you know that you're not going to expect anything different but it's about the more noise there is the more i try and make it make me focus harder and like have a bit more tunnel vision so it's kind of a cue to lock in if you like and i i tried to do that i mean whether i you know i sometimes i was good at it sometimes i wasn't but it was it was it was always going to be a really enjoyable atmosphere and i think we all look back on it um with amazing memories i mean we had some amazing moments throughout the whole Ryder Cup.

5:20We did what we obviously went there to do. We won an away Ryder Cup in New York, which is epic, which is amazing. Obviously, Sunday actually didn't really go how we planned it at all. And it was a lot more stressful than what we would have liked. Like Saturday night, when the games, when the matches had finished and there was that period where we're still kind of on the golf course or on the 18th green and the European fans had stayed around, like that was an unbelievable moment where it was so special to us like that evening. And yeah, I mean, the American team did like, incredible on Sunday.

5:50Just shows how good they were, really, like the way they played in the singles. But, I mean, at the end of the day, we managed to get it done.

6:05Essentially, you're saying Beth Page is nothing when you've survived an away day at Newcastle. An away day at Newcastle. Exactly. Exactly. There's plenty of away days, yeah, that you've got to survive. So all those Everton players that I can draw upon. Yeah, you've got a new appreciation for what they go through. Quick, quick one. Your foursomes partner, Rory McIlroy, revealed Team Europe use virtual reality headsets to emulate the abuse you get in training. How did they choose what abuse to pipe in? We all had a personal one. So you got your own little set of abuse there and abuse calls. Actually, I don't think anybody wore the headset more than my eight-year-old Frankie.

6:46Frankie loved it and balls in it, but he stood there, you know, he stood there in the middle of the living room with his headsets on, swiping away at a golf ball, getting abused, and he loved it. He absolutely loved it. It might not have been the greatest form of parenting there, but he had a great time. It's the opposite of headspace. Last one on the golf. A lot of people talk about golf being a mental game. So much of it is in the head, but how much of it is more an emotional game, harnessing, almost controlling your feelings while you're out on the course? Well, yeah, absolutely. you know it's a combination of everything like i always feel like the mental side is the key to unlocking all the practice that you do and getting the best out of yourself i feel like that's what that that mental side's for and it's the same emotionally as well and the thing is in golf you have so much time between shots like that's the thing like you have time to dwell on it but at the same time you have time to get over stuff as well so like you can get it out your system like you can use that time to your advantage but for sure like you know thoughts can build up and how how frustrating is golf like it really really is for all for all of us and that and that never changes it's like why you know you hit a great shot and you're like why can't i just do that all the time i felt so simple and what i should do and i practice for it all the time why can't i just do that and no matter what level you're at that never seems to change but controlling your emotions being aware of them knowing how to to handle them it's such a huge part of golf and it teaches you a lot and i mean never going to figure it out we're just going to keep striving to be better at it you and Jordan Pickford so it's time let's talk about a club much dearer to you in my heart you were raised and this is why I love you Tommy amongst other things in Southport the beach town 20 miles from my home in Liverpool take us back to the beginning and how you became a blue my brother was an Everton fan my dad's uh my dad's more of an Everton fan now uh than he was back then kind of thing.

8:35He sort of like, I mean, he supported Southport more than anyone, but like my brother was an Everton fan and I guess being from Southport, like it is very halfy-halfy. Like you could, you know, you could go red, you could go blue. There's quite a few United fans in the town as well, but I just liked Everton. I picked Everton. I liked Everton. That's where my life went. That was the direction that it went in.

9:00And thank God because it is so cool to your identity. You're a man who won an Olympic medal and immediately thanked the club for giving you a, quote, blue heart. What are your earliest memories of Everton, your childhood heroes? I'm too young to sort of remember the FA Cup in that much detail. I was four, so. Last title, 87, won the FA Cup 1995. So I'm just like, I'm just a bit too young. And my like, as I got up to being a younger kid, I mean, when did Moisey actually take over? I think 1863 the first time.

9:36so our year our year our champions league year would have been um i always get the mix of 2004 yeah yeah so like i so i remember that year those are like my memories like right you know 12 13 years old and and like that's when you know ever and actually like we're we're doing something like we're pretty good from that point on from my early 2000s watching us um i've gone through all that who are the players told me that you lent to when you were tommy fleetwood the kid was thinking about who Francis Jeffers oh so yeah uh that would be number one um actually it was just before I can't remember when he left the club now but um so my dad's best friend is Graham Stewart um Everton legend yeah yeah so I mean I speak to Diamond all the time seeing him all the time so um I speak to him a lot about the club and uh and those days back then it's been some lean years you've lived.

10:29You actually, you said this great quote, you said, I actually need a psychologist just for being an Everton fan. And I know you love connecting with fellow Everton fans because you've said there's a quote, a joint suffering. So let me ask you this. I mean, you did come in the post glory years. I've seen us win titles. I've seen us win trophies. Listeners, this happened. So why do we do it, Tommy? Do you know what I actually really love about being an Everton fan? I guess every club can say it, but like, you know, for us, I just love the optimism that comes with being an Everton fan week in week out we're always just ready for great times and uh we always believe uh that it's coming and I still believe it's coming uh I see growth in the club and I and I see you know to this day like I see a squad that's on the pitch now and players on the pitch and I like I you know believe that that great times are coming I have Finna with me every week that believes we're going to win every match um so like I you can't do you in finish yeah he's got the Everton tattoo on his arm and he, he's, he's such a, he's such a, you know, such a huge fan.

11:32So I, you know, I just, I just love the optimism that comes with being an Everton fan and the realism of it. And yeah, I love the club. I mean, I believe that deeply. We talked about tenacity at the beginning of the conversation. There's a tenacity, a ferocious tenacity to being an Everton fan. And also, as you hinted, celebrating great moments when we have them and making them feel like we're dancing at our own kids' wedding. But there is something also in your relationship with Finney, Ian Finnis, the Giant, your long-time caddy, your friend, massive bling, legend. How much of your Everton support is bonding with him on the road and almost creating a structure, a ritual during the tough grind of life on the tour?

12:12We'll talk about the team on Friday or leading up to the weekend. We'll watch the game and then Sunday morning, we don't even really say good morning, we'll just start talking about the game really that's like that's like how the how the weekend how the weekend goes and especially you know in america like you get lucky if like you know if they're on on the early kickoff and you can get up early for it or whenever that time is so like america can work out all right like managing to watch them uh but you're just you know you're always keeping up to date from afar and like you know finna who's still got a season ticket and stuff but obviously doesn't go doesn't go that much anymore because he's out on the road with me but um like you know it's just so we're so invested in the club.

12:54There's so many massive football fans on the golf tour. We've had Rory McIlroy on talking about his deep love of Manchester United. Poor bloke. I know Justin Rose, proper Chelsea, John Rahm, Atletico, Bill Bow, Ian Poulter, Arsenal. Who's the biggest football fan? And what's the football side chat like on the tour? I'm not sure who's the biggest football fan. I mean, there's a few Liverpool fans. Ludwig Eberg, he's the most, you know, the recent one that's a big Liverpool fan. So I enjoy talking to him about what's going on. Everybody loves the Premier League and everybody has their club and stuff.

13:30So it's always good talking, just having a chat about where our teams are at. And if every now and again you get a fellow sufferer, it's great. You approach the goal for talking about fellow suffering. I do find it nourishing, Tommy. After all the near misses, all the struggle, you talk about just keep digging. the late lead squandered you've said that instead of moping or sulking this is your quote you try to rewire as quickly as possible and see the positives you use yoga meditation you're big on the headspace app it's been an everton fan this is a serious question has it made you tougher mentally or is it the other way around that your upbeat life and golf mentality makes you a better everton fan they're probably intertwined you're definitely more accepting um like my uh my two oldest boys so my wife's a city fan two oldest boys are city fans so they're 17 and 19 at this point so they've just watched i mean they've grown up with man city being unbelievable well you should see them trying to accept man city only drawing a match it's like they can't you know can't handle it i'm like you know you need um so uh they've they've not quite managed to have the same uh upbringing as me and the same mentality where you accept whatever happens and you enjoy the good stuff.

14:49So yeah, I guess they're kind of intertwined. I've always worked on trying to be, just trying to like accept things and look for the positives and then look towards what's next. I've been getting better at it all the time. I think this year and this summer, definitely, I was very, very good at that. And I learned a lot about it just because I had to. It was like learning as I go throughout that period as well, just learning more and more. But whatever happens, There's no point in having a negative effect on what happens next. And that's the same in football. Like you can't do anything about the match that you've just lost or whatever's happened or the match that you've just, you know, somebody scored in the 96th minute to draw or whatever it may be.

15:24You can't do anything about it. You can just look for the positive experience in it to give you the best chance of winning the next game. Are you telling me, Tommy, that me wearing my lucky hat and moving to the special place on the couch while I'm watching the game has zero effect on Everton's outcome? Only you can tell me that. I mean, if all those times where it's gone wrong, you haven't been sat in that place on the couch, then we've got you to blame for all these years. I think we just cracked it. Glory is now guaranteed. But you are on the record, and I love this. You said that being an Everton fan, quote, prepares you for a lot of things in life, which I think is true.

15:57I think it's the point of being an Everton fan. Have you become a better human being to your fandom? Probably. Probably. I mean, we'll just, you know, credit being an Everton fan for so many things. I mean, why would you not? We'll just keep crediting being an Everton fan. Any experience I have, it's all right. I'm an Everton fan, so I can handle it. It's fine. Good or bad, that is a way. We've got a question from a listener for you, Tommy. This one from Everton and England's number one goalkeeper, and I'll save you. It's Mr. Jordan Pickford. Yes, Tommy, Jordan here. Hope you're well. I've heard you've got an interview with Rog.

16:31All the best with that, by the way. I just want to ask you a question. the question would be with an Everton question is what is your favourite Everton moment as a fan and also while we're honoured can I have a golf tip about me driver because I keep getting the chance you know pulling it left Fino has not helped me all the best I can't help you with your driver I mean Fino's told me you know all about your golf I can't help you with that we'll have to well we'll have to play I've never been invited to any of those games actually West Lions when he's playing golf so So, you know, maybe if I got an invite, I could help.

17:06Once he fixes that drive, Tommy, you'll be perfect. Just don't worry about the drive, yeah. I don't care how bad you're driving. It's just you saving those shots. So my best moment as an Everton fan is actually, I wasn't even there and I wasn't watching the game. This is literally my best moment. I'm playing the USPGA final round and it's the second off. Do you remember we went 2-0 down to Crystal Palace? Of course. I live in that moment. My life is... We're 2-0 down to Crystal Palace, but I'm on the course and we're trying to get the scores from the game. And we found out it's 2-0. Does that affect you, Tommy, on the course in that moment?

17:47Your team are getting relegated. We're going down. The team you love are going... You've got to hit golf balls. It's like refocus, golf ball. We've got to focus on the coffee. We've got to get something out of the state. And then somebody shouts, it's 2-0 or something. and then it was 3-2 in the space of like a hole or something it was like a hole or two holes or something that had gone and and me and finna oh my god like it was like we missed i mean we've missed out on the whole game and we're trying to play the final round of the uspga but that was where everton stayed up that season and that is like my favorite moment of it all because we were following while trying to play the final round of Asia when you put it out were you just like hugging each other because you'd found out dcl 85th minute delivered glory i think we did uh We shook hands on the last and we were like, you know, great day.

18:35We stayed up. Can Everton complete the impossible? Grace Ball in! You have the answer! Dominic Calvert-Lewin flies to head home! Tommy, I want to talk about this season. You talked about the dark times. Let's talk about the flickering. In your language, positivity coming. Everton have just moved into a new home. Stunning Hill Dickinson Stadium, the steep terraces, the 100 % green energy, the greelish naissance. You visited when it was still being built. When you look at that glistening new cathedral, what do you feel? Can a place be transformative? It's not always that easy moving into a new stadium, especially when you've had somewhere like Goodison Park.

19:20And I think we've done an incredible job already of making it like a strong home ground, home atmosphere. and I think the people that I've spoke to, fans, they love what we have and they love the bright spark that we have at the moment. And if you put everything together, I think new stadium, new ownership and you look at the look of the team now, like new midfield, plus I actually think when you throw in David Moyes and his experience at the club as well as where he's at, I think you have an amazing group of things coming together. It's just about jumping on all the bright sparks that we have at the moment while just trying to build in some consistent improvement, which is, I feel like, what we're doing.

20:10Oh, Moise, how much you love that man? I mean, like, when the camera pans to him on the sidelines, you just feel like, oh, dad's home. He's had such a great effect since he's been back. From what I've heard, some of the players, like, everybody has just spoke really positive about him as a manager and as a coach. And I think that's great. But yeah, we've had some amazing times under him. I feel like he did such an amazing job last season and we started well this season. Like you just have, I think you have so much faith in him and whatever happens, you're like, I feel like David Moyes is the right guy.

20:41I think he's doing great. Oh, it's time for our Get Inclusive segment presented by Verizon. Because golf's a game of millimetres, tiny fractions, angles, that make a huge difference. Millions of dollars difference at times. Spending time with Tommy Fleetwood, a gent who for me is a giant, a hero, taking decades of near misses, almost in cheerful stride. It's hard to believe how he's done it, maintaining that delight, that focus, that pursuit of glory and using it to fuel an incredible career year. It's inspirational in golf, in sport and in life. As Mr. Al Pacino once said, the inches we need are all around us.

21:22It's better out of his mouth than out of mine. But may Tommy continue to soar. By the way, it was an amazing moment for me watching your first PGA Tour win coming on the same day Everton played in that new stadium for the first time, the 2-0 win over Brighton for the 54 ,000 fans. Watching it in dual screen, I think you actually watched it before golfing to experience those twin images of a new Everton and a new Fleetwood. Your iconic scream, like just that delight that you expressed. Do you feel those two things are connected? I'm trying to work out if the earlier Everton win was an uman type.

21:54Yeah, maybe. So last year, I was warming up in the fitness truck at the same tournament at Eastlake. And I walked out and I said, it was on the Sunday, I think. I said, it's going to be a great day today. Everton have won. We're all good. We were 2-0 up against Bournemouth. And I walked to the players' lounge and we'd lost. Brings it under control. Left side of the box. Early crossing. Sinistero! with the header in the back post unbelievable from 2-0 down Bournemouth are going to win away at Everton I actually thought somebody was joking I was like yeah yeah yeah good one this year is a different story we actually did get the win and then I did something for the first time as well so maybe they are connected One of the delights of my season, you mentioned it, the talent that we're watching week in, week out.

22:54Mr. Jack Grealish. I mean, just ex-elect. The squad full of just confident, swaggy players. Kid and Dewsbury Hall, Iliadai. Yeah. You know, the quality, the belief, the technical ability with suddenly borderline suave, Tommy. How good can this team be and what do you think it needs? I think you've looked in the past and maybe we go one or two nil down and it's never been for lack of effort. It's just been that we've struggled to like create things and we struggle to even like look like we can have an impact on the game in terms of getting back into it. I think you look now, we always look like we've got a chance.

23:34We had a poor game last week, whatever, but we always look like we're in a game. We never look out of it. I think that breeds confidence in itself for us, but it also goes into the other team as well because they know, they have to think about us. The creative side in the midfield looks so, so strong. We can build confidence up front and we can start banging a few in, then we're off and running. But I think it's about, you know, supporting those guys and giving them the best chance of having success there in front of goal and seeing what we can do there. But like the foundations of the team are in such a good place at the moment.

24:08Football's about family. You've already mentioned your wife, Claire, your stepsons are lifelong Manchester City fans. How does that work, Tommy, in the house? Yeah, I somehow managed to get Frankie, our youngest one. He's an Everton fan. I don't have any favourites amongst your children, but Frankie. Yeah, thank you. I actually, I sat there. So when I brought him home eight years ago from last, but I sat there on the couch and, you know, September, October 2017. And I'm sat there, sit down for his first ever football game is a few days old and we lost 1-0 to Burnley and it was a dire game. It was horrible.

24:42And I looked at him and I thought, this is going to be a difficult task to make sure he's an Everton fan. But he loves being an Everton fan and loves watching. But we're all good. Like the boys' second team is Everton. They follow them because of me. And we're all invested in each other's happiness. Ultimately, that last sentence is probably the most important. I have four kids. I think my sole contribution as a parent is making them all blues, which I'm so proud of. And my wife's like, why would you do that? And occasionally when we get absolutely battered, my kids will text me and be like, dad, why did you do this to us?

25:23But it's a long game. It is a long game as you prove it very quickly on city. I know in Pep Guardiola second season, you were introduced. You started a long personal relationship. He talks golf. You talk football. He comes on this show a lot. And from the very first time he came on, he wanted to talk golf with me as much as football. He is. He's obsessed. I mean, he's followed you for practice sessions. He's given coaching advice. I am fascinated. How good is his golf game? And what's the biggest lesson in golf or life that you learned from your time with Pep? I ask him questions all the time and he never answers them because he's too bothered about his golf swing and golf.

26:01So I'm like, it's like the greatest manager of all time that I'm trying to learn things from and I'm getting nothing from him. And then he goes, well, you've not given me any advice on my golf game. And then we just like bicker with each other because neither of us are gaining. Like neither of us are gaining in this relationship. I pick stuff up from him all the time, from some of his beliefs as a coach or as a manager and how he goes about things in his training, like stuff that you can translate to golf, like the quality of his routines and of his practice, the systems that they have, how professional they are in every aspect of whatever it is, diet, sleep, you know, training, physical stuff.

26:35You try and pick as much up of it as you can. And he's the ultimate perfectionist in what he goes about as a team. And I think you try and pick stuff up from that. And his golf swing's good. I mean, he is obsessed with golf. Like I say, whenever I'm trying to pick stuff up, he's too busy talking about his golf swing. He always says, you know, things go badly. I go. I go off and play golf. As he sees his future genuinely just living on an island somewhere, just hitting golf balls. What's the weakness to the Pep golf game? I don't know. That's a great question, really. Probably because he's always looking for more and never just, you know, accepts where he is and tries to play his game.

27:11Last question for you, Tommy. You are inspirational to me and I think so many thousands of our listeners. You've shown it is possible to reinvent yourself, that you can get over the top, that you can experience glory. You're honestly a symbol, a living embodiment of what I think so many of us want Everton to be next. What I'm really asking is, do you think we'll see Everton win something again in our lifetimes? oh i hope so i hope so i i of course i of course i do like i would i would never give any other answer than saying uh yes we will and um who knows like how soon it will be or how long it will take but i um like i believe we can do the right things and continue to build on our team and great times will come but like i'm never ever going to give another answer than that like of course what'll happen first?

28:04Tommy Fleetwood wins the Masters or Everton win the Premier League? Well, the Masters is in April, so hopefully me. Let's do it both in the same year and that will be perfect. I'll tell you, if you could only choose one, it would be the Masters, then, right? Well, yeah, but don't tell anyone that. You can be the bigger man. Tommy said Everton winning the Premier League. Tommy Fleetwood, I want to thank you. You are such an embodiment of joy, tenacity, passion, all the goodness in the world to you to your family to claire uh to your boys especially to frankie big big love yeah the blue the blue one thanks so much thank you it was really cool thank you so much for having me big love thank you courage