USA 1-4 Belgium instant reactions, featuring John Green and Becky Sauerbrunn: Night Cup 07/06/26

22:4361 seconds in which touch the clouds, touch the heavens.

22:48Rog:Seattle resonated. The crowd started to scream again. And all Belgium did was go to the other end. God bless Tim Ream. He's confused under the approach ball, never recovered. I mean, this was a goal cut from, I think, the greatest nightmares that we all harbored, if we're being honest. We talked about it a lot over the past three months. What would, you know, Tim Ream, such an intelligent footballer, Tim Ream, such a servant of this national team. To be honest, knowing the mechanics of that squad, Tim Ream's such a leader, a needed leader, on a squad that was shorn of it. But bloody hell, what happened next?

23:24Rog:Trossard sped to the byline, lofted a simple ball into the middle. and again it was the kettle there the boat shoe peddler leapt into the air just as bad i just i'm like as a center back oh yeah i just feel so much for tim rehm in this moment because if you don't jump early this is such a in the weeds thing but i just have to say if you don't jump early to contest an air ball and the other person you're going against does jump early there it doesn't matter if you're the best player in the air you're gonna get dunked on you have to He was posterized. It was like watching Vince Carter dunk on Frederick Wright.

24:01It happens to every centre-back, but you have to jump early. He did jump. But not early enough. Did Tetelara got a run on him? Yes. Which means he can get higher up. Of all the goals the US conceded, the timing, I think, betrays a lack of game intelligence. You've just equalized. We saw it with Mexico against England after the first Bellingham goal. Gilberto Moura turning and getting caught out. Just don't concede a second. Just 1-0 down, just re-establish yourself in the game. Keep the ball. Make the simple choices. The U.S. switched off after the goal, I think. And as much as there were mistakes in the build-up, I'm not sure I'd blame Tim Ream for that goal.

24:38I don't either. I don't either. Genuinely. I think central defense... Sometimes people store goals. That's true.

24:45Rog:Tim Ream is a beautiful man, so I'm going to follow you a pathway. I think both the second goal, there's no human directly at fault. and the third goal there probably is and then the fourth goal maybe there isn't so you got two good goals and one but again we only scored one goal so it doesn't matter how many good goals bad goals they scored we we only scored one tonight we don't understand how article 27 works so that's genuinely actually you know what raj we might not be out of the world cup just yet. I know. That's why I'm not as sad as I should be because Article 27 exists. It is the truth.

25:28Rog:No one understands that truth but genuinely I'm waiting for watching refreshing Twitter and all night probably I'll be sitting up. In Qatar. Yeah. In 2022. In the first couple of days it was very obvious that the stadiums weren't full and FIFA sneakily changed the official capacities of the stadium on the official website so that they just happened to be the number of people who were in the stadium. Oh, that's what it looked like anyway. They then said it was to do with operational stuff that they'd moved the seats around or something. I understand that. I think it's entirely possible that Article 27 develops a sixth clause overnight, which is that there is a wild card quarter finalist.

26:05I think I like it. America loves a wild card. I love the way you're thinking, Rory. That's an American thinker right there. The most American one of all of us.

26:16Rog:Wild card Wednesday. Woo! Who's in? What? It'd be us and Mexico and Canada fight to the death. Three-way game. Yeah. Come on, guys. Three goals. Let's see what happens. It'll be amazing. Let me ask you this, Becky. When you take the lead, when you work so hard to drag yourself back into a game only to concede 61 bloody seconds later, what does it feel like? Does it feel worse than just like a normal goal? Yeah, it feels absolutely terrible because from a young, young age, you were told about these very crucial five-minute segments. the start of the game right before halftime right after halftime last five minutes of the match and whenever you score or concede a goal those five minutes are sacred and it's you do not make mistakes during those five minutes absolutely so this is borderline blasphemy it's it's just that's what makes it feel so much worse it does that's 61 seconds needed to extend a little bit longer by the way the chat is coming up with the idea of a world cup losers bracket which will obviously be played out on the White House lawn.

27:18Rog:I'm just throwing that detail in. Brought to you by Monster Energy. It'd be awesome. By the way, these are ideas. Keep giving this. It'll be Cape Verde. All your favourites. Curacao. Come back. USA. It's going to be lit. Keep workshopping the idea in the chat. You're making me feel alive again. Potch kicked the water bottles on the sideline, which I think was like the second shot we had on target in that half and the only two. The horror of it all. The broken play. The confused tactics. the brittle, porous back line. It was honestly like all this World Cup and trying to work out how did this team do what it did in the first game, the Paraguay game.

27:58Rog:Razzle-dazzle, just crazy mixtape and one basketball, just delirious street ball, nutmeg stuff. We did it again against Australia. You were there with me, John Green. We saw it with our own eyes, didn't we? The Bosnia game, different. I've said again, perseverance, tenacity, a ferocity, game intelligence. This was us reverting to our worst selves, March selves, you know, just this fearful, fitful, broken. Set up top, it's like a fairy tale where, you know, the joy turns to ashes in our mouth. Cinderella's sparkling coach reverting to the ugly pumpkin. The question is less like, what happened tonight?

28:38Rog:I realize it's more probably what the hell happened in those other three great games. How much was it just raw that we played poor teams? And in this moment, we played a quite good one, an adequately organised experience one, no doubt super pissed off and motivated. We just kind of meekly rolled over. I don't think the US played poor team. I really don't. I think if you look at what those teams did after that game, Paraguay, not Germany out. I was at the Australia game where they lost to Egypt in Texas. I can't remember which bit of Texas. A lot of it looked the same to me, Becky. They gave Egypt a game.

29:18Egypt's not amazing, but these are well-organized. They've got players playing in major leagues in Europe. They've got players playing at the highest level. They are not bad teams. The US made them look bad. The thing that I think we all... Yeah, those of us who have never played the game to the level that you have, I genuinely think attributing agency is the hardest thing to do. It's the thing we struggle with the most. figuring out did we make them look bad or did they make us look good that's the central question of every game i think the u.s played really well in those first two games in particular bosnia was more of a fight i think the difference is i think yeah the u.s are a vibes team the vibes in those first two games were fully from the first five minutes it was like right this is golden we are the sun's shining seattle's gone crazy the world cup started we are here this is us and i think the vibes of the first 10 minutes against Belgium were completely opposite and the U.S.

30:09froze. That's what I think. Becky, do you agree? I do. I mean, I was at the send-off game against Germany and they lost to Germany, but they had that fight in Tenacity where it actually felt like a win. Like the vibes were really good leaving that game. And that's what I think got the States really excited about this team going into the World Cup. I agree. I think it's tough to play well over eight games and to bring that every single game you need a lot of players that are capable of doing that and we they have a lot of quality players but you need that experience that world cup experience to understand how to do it game after game after game fighting against momentum when it's against you gaining it back using the moments capitalizing when you have the chances.

31:00These are all things that these players are going to learn from this.

31:03Rog:Tournament management. Tournament management, like all of these things. That's why you have teams that win the World Cup multiple times. Has cruel fate smashed your dreams of footballing glory during this FIFA World Cup? Fear not. You're now a sporting free agent with your choice of squads, the opportunity to pick someone new, the teams with the catcher songs, the country you studied abroad in, the goalkeeper with the magnificent hair. When your team's gone, fun doesn't have to be, because on the Leyes bandwagon, every match is another excuse to grab a snack and pick a new favourite. There are no wrong answers, only good times and tasty snacks.

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32:18Rog:There are no wrong answers. Only good times and tasty snacks. So jump on and enjoy the rest of the tournament because Lays keeps the party going and the bandwagon has never tasted better. Lays, official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026. And as the world arrives in the United States for the biggest spectacle in sports, we're going coast to coast, host city to host city to meet the world with the Men in Blazers Match Day Live Tour. These are free college game day style live events taking place just before kickoff at some of the biggest games of the summer. But we'll be taking the stage with celebrity guests in front of thousands of fans.

32:57Rog:It's going to be amazing. Come and be with us in person or from afar on YouTube. And let's celebrate this summer the way it's meant to be celebrated. Head to the events tab on meninblazers.com for all the details. To the football, to more together courage. We were told the last World Cup gave us that experience. That was the reality. That, you know, we're coming back. We did it. Now we're glad to the American mentality. We did that. Now we're going to do this. Kick ass, take names. I mean, we needed two things. We needed the crowd to lift the players. That Mexico crowd in the Azteca, when Mexico went 3-1 down, they stayed with their team.

33:35Rog:They roared. They made their team believe. And we also needed Pochettino to rework the tactics in the halftime locker room. And they did come out with more application fleetingly. I think Rainer came on for Dest, who's shell-shocked. My God, shell-shocked in this game. And for a moment, we pushed the fullback forwards, tried the flicks and tricks. It felt like, OK, OK, something's happening here. But my God, instead, a goal self-sabotagingly cut from really the bowels of our own self-loathing. I don't like to be hyperbolic, but it's there. 57 minutes. minutes. Matt Freeze, the keeper, we always knew had a mistake in him.

34:15Rog:This is the deal we did. What do you want, Matt Turner or Matt Freeze? And they both, you know, it was like different challenges that were built in here in our goalkeeping. We went with Matt Freeze, who was deeply inexperienced. What is this, 19 caps? He'd not been given the time, the reps. We knew this. We kind of did this to ourselves. He had the most incredible synapse I feel for him, Stubbed his foot instead of clearing. I'll say, who amongst us has not done something like this in our life? He just did it with the world watching. It must have been a horror for this human being. And I do ultimately send him my love tonight.

34:52Rog:He's a beautiful, beautiful man and will be suffering. He saw his tears full time. Stubbed his toe. Didn't clear. Van Aken pounced right. Drove that ball low. Brace yourself for the saddest worm burner ever.

35:13we've had a very different vibe to this show until tonight okay yeah i feel like i missed some things it's been weirder same becky just trust me it's not a happy thing

35:24Rog:but we're legally we're legally obliged to play a warm burner in the time of darkness is a double a double agony at brayden brace he says can we article 27 for senior onto our team Now we need more of these ideas. Let's keep workshopping them. By the way, it wasn't over. Tim Ream was between the line and the shot. He just had to stand there. I don't know what it was. He kind of tried to lift his leg up. He turned his back. His exhausted limb. I think he could cut it open and count the rings to learn his age. It's like watching a death. It really was. It was like watching a man retire by his game.

36:01Rog:You always say, Ro, we don't choose. we don't get to choose how we say goodbye we really don't by the way in football and in life we never do and it felt so sad for tim rehm this beautiful man who cares so deeply for this team but that did in that moment feel like his goodbye i think this might be one of those where i do have the relevant experience raj as i have also in in my footballing career done things really badly and been embarrassed by them and that was one of those that any footballer i think can can can kind of associate themselves with where you you just whiff on a ball you know what you're meant to do absolutely and you cannot get your body to do it and it was agonizing because he was so he touches it he touches it and flicks it and it just a slightly meatier touch and that goes white and tim rehm is a hero and who knows at that point maybe the u.s nick another one the games it's still a one goal game there's still hope but that moment was the point where you kind of knew it was gone.

36:57Rog:John, it was sadder than the Mountain Goats song watching that. In fact, the Mountain Goats may write a song called Tim Reap about that very moment. It was that hard to watch. Yeah, I mean, they should probably write a concept album about it. I mean, it's just a brutal moment for both of them. And I was reminded of my own footballing career where I started exactly one game for my middle school football team. And at halftime, the coach said, you know why I started green at least he tries and I realized that I've just been a motivational tool the whole time I wasn't uh wasn't put on the pitch because of my my my talent or my future but because I was uh just somebody who was seen as a trier and god bless Tim Ream he tried so hard in that moment by the way I'm not laughing at Tim Ream because I can barely get out of a chair No, no, no.

37:51Rog:You're laughing at me. I know who you're laughing at, Rog. We all know who you're laughing at. You were Diego Luna before there was Diego Luna. Too soon. Too soon. Too soon. But I will tell you this. Watching Pulisic lose possession 11 times in 45 minutes, most of any player on the field, that's a doom stat. Is that all it was?

38:13Rog:I did think the U.S. could have done with bringing on the man who played Christian Pulisic in that ultra commercial. By the way, I would have bitten your arm off for Billy Bob Thornton to just wander onto the field in his dressing gown and be like, hey, play you for the ultras. But by that stage, they were trying too hard. That was the other issue. They were forcing it to try and make something happen. Yep, exactly. Yeah, like me and my middle school soccer team. Yeah, by the way, John Green, he tries. We could have done with some of that. He limped off of an injury. You saw him, he pulled his foot back.

38:47Rog:He stubbed his toe. He was off right after the goal. 27 years old. He'll be 31 next World Cup. I'd say it was hard to watch him sit on the bench crying. I thought, thank God John Green's coming on. He's a novelist. He understands human pain. What was he feeling? What was going on in his head in that moment? I think Becky probably knows more of what was going on in his head because she's been in a locker room more than I have. But I think that he just, you know, we all have days where we can't do what we want to do. There's a great Steinbeck line, actually, where he got a bad review. And the reviewer said Steinbeck has run up against the limits of his talents.

39:31And in his journal, Steinbeck wrote that idiot. I run up against the limits of my talents every day. and I think that's what happened in the end you know we all run up against the limits of our talents God

39:46Rog:put a bit in your arm off for Steinbeck on that left flank I'm quite relieved that it sounds like even John Steinbeck got like Twitter feedback that's really nice Steinbeck you wanker love off Steinbeck you wanker you underestimate the extent Rory Rory, you underestimate the extent to which everybody has struggled under the burden of a public life. It is not just you, my friend. And it is not just Christian Pulisic. It's all of us. God, this is incredibly humbling for all of us now. Somehow you've turned a deeply profound football loss into you exposing all of us, John. I love it. I love it. Now I feel like I'm completely exposed, like Natalie Imbruglia, just lying naked on the floor.

40:40Rog:But it's not about me. Yes, exactly. Rog thinks about that song. One of the main things I've learned from spending a month with Rog is that song, I don't know of anybody who thinks about Natalie Imbruglia's musical career more than Rog. I haven't. I have not heard that song in about 50 years. She's great, don't get me wrong. That lyric is just like... She's great. And by the way, she's doing fine. She's great. Life is good for her. She's done for it. We should worry about it. Oh, my God. She's tweeting through it. She's tweeting through the pain. Derek Martinez 2529 says, can we stop the Pulisic commercials now?

41:16Rog:You know what? That's a good question. What do they do? They keep filing them. Oh, no. They might have a backup. What? Just Beckham? Just Beckham. What? He can't mess with the Lord. Double the Beckham. Turn him off. Double the Beckham. Suddenly, American TV is going to be full of Charles de Quetelara videos. Yeah, I was going to say, Charles de Quetelara is like, can I play you for an ultra? No, he'll be advertising sort of more boaty brands, Ralph Lauren. That'll be that kind of vibe. There'll be Romelu Lukaku being like, I think he gave me a yellow card once. Or maybe it'll just be the ultra adverts, but they'll just fade out Pulisic.

41:55So it'll just be like Messi talking to nobody.

42:00Rog:I will have shut the hell up this US made a fist a bit late Belgium were quite comfortable held us at arm's length we were like swinging like a little brother with the older brother's hand on our head but Rom Lukaku we knew he was going to score when he came and he's contractually obliged punched through Chris Richards tired mind, tired legs God bless you Chris Richards and then humiliated asleep with a coup de grace. We've got there. We're out again in the round of 16. I will say not like this. I've been saying this all day. Not like this. Just not. This was the worst possible way. The world was watching.

42:41Rog:I'll say many will be scoffing tonight around the world. I don't really care about that right now. That's a bigger issue for us to talk about. But the nation was watching. You know, we had got people excited again. And this is like the same thing we did in 2010. Landon scored. We all tuned in. We crapped the bed against Ghana. 2014, we got out the group of death. Wondo against Belgium. It was right there. We couldn't do it. In 2022, we got through the group in a kind of anonymous way. We played the Netherlands. We were shattered. You know, Louis van Gaal patronized us afterwards and said they were very naive.

43:24Rog:They didn't do any technical adjustments, laughed at us. And here we are again. It feels like, I mean, I said before the show, each of these US journeys are treasures for us. We have a finite number. So many of them are so bloody short on the men's side. That's the agony for me. Like we've gotten the nation excited. The watch parties across this nation, every time we won a game at human ecstasy. And we soiled ourselves again. I don't know if anyone wants to. That's the missed opportunity and the self-sabotage is what I think, John Green, is the thing that is gnawing away at me most now. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, Raj.

44:03It's really frustrating. I'm curious. I'd love to hear from Becky. To what extent does the history weigh on you or liberate you? To what extent is the history even in your mind? Does it matter what we did in 2010? It matters to me because I was watching. It matters to me that we made the quarters in 2002. and haven't made it since. But like, does it matter to the players? I don't really think it matters that much to the players. I think you take each tournament as it is.

44:31Rog:Right. And you take whatever experiences you got from the last ones and you try to apply it to the current one. But I don't think it's weighing on their mind how they barely got out of their group in Qatar. Like, I don't think that's something that... I think they're motivated by other things. And I think it's a brand new team. It had new vibes. It's an older group. It's a little bit, you know, they're a little bit more veteran, a little bit more grizzled. Like they've got some good games underneath them. And so I think you just take each tournament as it is. And I will also add. No, go ahead.

45:04That the way that we got out of this tournament, like there can be pride in a loss and you want to see the fight. Like even if it's 4-1, what I wanted to see were players sprinting after the ball. It goes out of bounds. you're sprinting after it to get it back in you're you're bringing people into the box you're going for it even if it's like even it's it's a hail mary you're never going to get back in this game you at least show the fight and that's what i think for me like leaving the game i feel most upset about is that i didn't see that fight yeah it's not as both becky and john have said it it doesn't necessarily have to be a disappointment that the u.s lost in the in the last 16 that's probably a par finish if i'm completely honest there are other is it yeah is that what we could

45:50Rog:do is that the ceiling this great nation of ours you know you've had maybe i keep saying for lols like we put a man on the moon we invented the lemon pepper wet yeah we can do this thing and we cannot on the on the women's side we win things nobody i understand they're different realities i don't want to compare them title nine is uh has created a you know a different reality uh but there's also a different mentality. But this round of 16 Hex, is that? That's just who we are. No, it's not a ceiling. I've got to say, I feel like we're permanent. This is now Groundhog Day. For US fans, this is Groundhog Day.

46:25Rog:You know, we've gone further once and only when we beat Mexico. That can't be it. You see Morocco go deep. We've seen Iceland go deep in the Euros. Tiny Iceland. We've seen Wales go deep in the Euros. We've seen Costa Rica go deep in the World Cup. It can't be. It just can't be the ceiling. It's not a ceiling, but I think what you have to remember is that a lot of those are one-offs, ones-off, that it can happen with a fair wind and with some momentum and with some confidence that builds up. This is actually an area that, living in England and being British, which are separate things, I think I'm qualified to talk about.

47:04the mistake England made for years was forgetting that other countries play soccer too. So with every World Cup there was a sense that this is about us. If we win it's just we're great if we lose it's because we've messed up. That's not how it works. There are 48 teams who arrived in this tournament with their own stories, with their own senses of destiny and I think that it's such a sport of fine margins. There are many multiple worlds in which the US beat Belgium. Not that much has to change. Charles de Tetzelara is a foot further forward and is offside in that first goal. Maybe the US don't freeze.

47:44Maybe they don't panic. Maybe they don't chase. Maybe they win. It's not that they're a mile away. It's that you just have to keep going. If you think about, what were the examples you gave?

47:55Rog:Wales, Iceland, Costa Rica. Turkey, Costa Rica. Turkey's got 80 million people in it and it's football bananas. and messes up two in every three tournaments. Oh, I'll bite your arm off for messing up two in every three. But, you know, they made the semifinal once. Here's the reality. Here's how I'm feeling tonight. Like, the motto of this team was, why not us? And I'm left tonight, like, kind of choking. Why never us? Like, why never us? Why is it never us that once? Why is it never us? And it's a deep, deep question. And what US soccer do next? I mean, this is a longer combo. and best not done in this moment.

48:32Rog:So I'm going to take a deep breath. You know, Pochettino's just spoken. I think we need to learn. It's a process to learn. We need to assess the game, see why we didn't approach this game like the rest of the World Cup. It's a very good point. Of course, the principal responsibility is with myself. You know, he's done a lot of work for Hugo Boss in this tournament. A lot of very, very good work. What he does, that's now an open question. You know, we remember the Milan interview beforehand. his job is done, whether he stays or goes. But what US soccer do next, we ricochet between managers. We get the big name, the Klinsman, the poch, and then we're like, no, we couldn't control them.

49:08Rog:Let's go and get that MLS guy who may not be the greatest manager, but the boys bond with. I mean, there needs to be some kind of a football strategy, a football IQ at the heart of this. The why never us is an agony that I don't want to get into tonight because I'm going to say some things. Tyler Adams also spoke via Philly Union's beat reporter, Jose Nunes. I wish we could have won tonight. The fans deserved it. The support we've had over the past few weeks, they deserve it. The people back home deserve it. They made us want it. Tyler feels that. I'll say another agony for me. You were there in Seattle, the Country Roads moment.

49:48Rog:I flew out of Seattle. I fell asleep on the plane. It was a long flight and I had a nightmare that the country roads in Seattle was as good as it got in this tournament. It felt so bloody good. It was good. By the way, that airline was so hepped. Six o 'clock in the morning flight, the American Airlines people were like, hey, U.S. soccer fans, we got a special treat for you on the plane. We got on the plane and they put a U.S. jersey on every bloody seat on the plane. Boom. The Australian fans who got on were like, bloody hell, mate. This is some living hell. they beat us and then they make us take their jerseys um i remember just feeling ecstatic i photographed it and was like this is the america i want to live in um but that was the height that was it the needle fell off that was as good as it bloody got i was at that game too and it felt i mean i've been retired for a few years now but that gave me chills and i was thinking like man i miss this like it was that was like the magic it was yeah it was and we thought it was gonna to take us on a wave that would be unstoppable.

50:50Rog:At Sun Tzu 5650 says, no country roads, just killing me softly. Oh, my God. I mean, I will say, it is. It's the agony for me. It's this team, not what happened tonight. It's more, it's more, I still don't understand how we raised our game more than what happened tonight. It's like, it's like a wonderful pleasure, which only makes it harder to experience. There's that Dante Inferno quote, John Green, that there's no worse a pain to remember than a time of happiness in a time of suffering. And I'm remembering those three games. It felt beautiful. It is the greatest agony. This team did dazzle us, didn't it, man?

51:28Rog:The nation started to tune in and then we soiled ourselves again. No, I want to push back just a little bit, Raj, because we still had those moments and those moments still count. The Country Roads moment in Seattle after we beat Australia still happened. And I know that you, we all look, we all are pendulums that swing further and further. The more we suffer and experience joy and I understand that. But those moments still, you still had that moment. I still had that moment of marching to the stadium with the fans. 100 ,000 fans, half of whom didn't have tickets to the game. Marching to the stadium.

52:14Rory, don't kill my vibe here. the numbers there is a lot of kind of number massaging going on roger's doing it as well

52:21Rog:rory no rory 700 000 americans 700 000 americans when you said that number i felt you were actually under counting 2.5 million americans 300 million americans every living soul in this country We marched to the game with me. I'll see you in the 300 and I'll bring you. Exactly. Including the population of Canada. We all marched to the game together. And it was a magical moment, Rory. Jesse marched for the police. And you're not going to ruin it for me with your fact-checking, okay? Your British fact-checking. We fought a war to be free from that kind of fact-checking. And anyway, point being, we marched to the stadium together.

53:08and I was thinking about when I went to the world cup with my dad in 1994 I went to see the Netherlands play Morocco in 1994 in Orlando Florida our tickets were 25 and they were not hard to get and we saw that game together and I became a football fan and there are tens of thousands of kids in the United States who became a football fan during this world cup and that is going to change their lives and it's going to change the trajectory of American soccer and what happened tonight does not negate that. Well said. Football is not about destinations. That's the thing that we mistake all the time.

53:45It's about journeys. Because if it was about destinations, no one would like it. It's about the journey that you go on with the people that you share it with, the 3.2 billion Americans who were on that march. John's totally right. That is still real. The assignment after Paraguay, that's still real. The football they played against Paraguay is still real. the grit and the tenacity that they showed to beat bosnia that sense of possibility that matters and there will be people who now that the u.s are out kind of switch off and it it was a summer fling and it's kind of it what you sort of call it yesterday brown summer and it kind of which is a very good line i'm going to steal it the but yeah there'll be people who switch off and it's but well i woke up's over maybe maybe in four years time when it's in 43 different countries they will they will watch it again maybe not maybe that's them done with soccer but there'll be a lot of people who have been exposed to its majesty and the fact that it is the greatest game and they will buy into it and that does have an effect 15 20 years down the line i want to be clear this

54:42Rog:world cup is massive this world cup has had a massive effect this is going to be the world cup of messi and harlan and mbappe and harry kate hopefully not and cape verd and congo and you know and and uh lawrence kansas and scottish human beings who've invented life without hangovers This World Cup has been massive. The agony for me is that the United States did not weave ourselves into the tapestry of the telling. Any World Cup, there's five storylines. Name any World Cup. You know, 1990, you can name exactly Roger Mealy, Cameroon. Gazza Tears, yeah. We are not one of those storylines. We're like a rocket that went off too early and then just kind of burnt out and faded.

55:24Rog:And that's the frustration. The game is in massive, massive health. The audience is enormous. The women's game is surging. And the thing that pisses me off tonight is that the U.S. men had a chance to weave themselves as heroes and move their brand, move this national team front and center to become a standard, you know, instead of a dream team, you know, a dream team, instead of this dream on team we've been. And you talk about the journey. Pisses me off, man. I was in Dallas airport with an Uber driver who was a little batty. And he got me onto a ring road recently. And we were just driving around the ring road over and over and over for about 45 minutes.

56:05Rog:I missed my plane. That's what it feels like supporting this team. We get our hopes up. We make the case. We believe. We think our guys are dishy ballers. And then boom, round of 16, it's like we're swatted like a fly. And it is. It hurts. And I think it hurts many of you at home because the belief, I remember when this team was default massive. If you like football, you lived and died with this team and the US Women's National Team. US Women's National Team still, still holds the audience. This team, if you're a football fan now, you support Liverpool, man. Support Arsenal. Support Real Madrid.

56:41Rog:There's many, many options. And it is, it's an annoying, just the case to make for this US team. and we've, in agony, failed to make it. A lot of comments. And I want to give you all a last word to pull this together rather than have Rog go off, which is not good for anyone. S31640 says, John Denver would have scored two and equalized in the 94th minute. He did that. Oh, the Belgian keeper Thibaut Courtrez just spoken. Translation from Turkish outlet, DeMarcus Sports. It cannot be said that the events from the match had any effect. I read them and laughed. It means the elegant thing. Today, compared to the Senegal, oh my God, this is dark.

57:21Rog:Today, compared to the Senegal match, I was more confident that we'd win. Senegal was a stronger team than the United States, and that was clearly seen today. The duality of the football fan is exploding in the chat. Kid Amnesiac Dream said, we look terrible. Belgium look great, locked in, completely outclassed tonight. Caroline Figueroa said, part of soccer is suffering. We suffer. John, is this your handle? We suffer. We go on. We try again at PJ Stins. Goal Cup coming soon, guys. We ran a poll in the chat. How would you rate the US men's national team performance? 44 % about what I expected.

57:59Rog:28 % worse than 15 % better. 13 % this poll is wildly reductive. I love you. We got a tweet from Belgium saying, overturn this. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. See? There you go. what did I say a lot of they and they did it I want to leave you both wow Becky, John Raw I mean I'm trying to work out what lesson we take from the past 48 hours really you know the game before the game the game now can you guys just take us home with a last word don't know who wants to go first I think I do wonder to what extent that the whole ballad and thing kind of threw everyone involved a little bit it did seem to kind of create an element of chaos around it for everyone it i maybe that's not an excuse maybe it's completely irrelevant it feels a shame that it's ended the way it did in terms of the performance but also with that as a backdrop that's not something that the u.s i my sense is they've added more to the tournament than you in the moment in the moment of disappointment uh can can feel and i get i get your feeling because because of the disappointment i think they the US have added something to this tournament as a host nation the US has added an enormous amount to this tournament I think the team has as well it's a shame that they went out like that with a whimper and not with a bang it's a shame that they went out with this totally unnecessary backdrop because this is going to sound like a cheap jibe they could have lost 4-1 to Belgium with Riccardo Pepe up front do you know what I mean, it didn't work for anybody and all it did was create this unnecessary and slightly weird backdrop to this game that didn't need to happen.

59:43And the whole thing, the result that the performance is, is not what this team deserved. Thank you. I'm going to go a little bit more optimistic. And we were talking about it being about the journey and not about the destination. And we are in the thick of the journey and we have been for a while now. And we are going to get these types of results on our way to hopefully breaking through the ceiling of the quarterfinals. And it might take a long time, but I do have faith that we are going to get there. And we have to understand that like the rest of the world is also getting better. I mean, I had my doubts that when they extended the teams for this tournament, that some of these games were just going to be blowouts.

1:00:23You're going to have the five zeros against the Cape Verde. And that's not the case. Like the four ones against the USA, the world is good at soccer and we have work to do to also be one of the greats in this game, but it doesn't mean we will never get there. We just got to find, we got to find the way to find the algorithm, find the coach, find the structure, find the plan, stick to the plan. And we can get there. We've got, I do believe we've got the talent somewhere in these United States that we will get far in this tournament.

1:00:56Rog:I keep, when I hear you say that, I keep thinking of the high school musical song, stick to the status quo. And I love it. I feel born again. John Green, take us home, you beautiful human being. Deliver some lesson that I can hold on to, tiny handhold as I'm dangling from the cliff. Well, I would say two things. First, we have a Women's World Cup coming up, which is exciting, always exciting. Second thing I would say is that hope is not always rewarded. And we were reminded today that hope is not always rewarded, but hope is always justified. Hope is always the correct response to consciousness.

1:01:34and you know I'm reminded as I always am in tough times of that great Emily Dickinson poem hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul and sings the tune without the words it never stops at all and we do have reason to be hopeful we still have football to enjoy whether or not the U.S. is part of that football and we still get to watch the World Cup together and we still get to be together and ultimately that's the point you know to love and lose together is the point and today we lost together but at least we were together.

1:02:07Rog:All I can say is amen. He's very good at this. He's very good at this. I love this human being. We've been blessed today. We began the game with Killer Mike, who spoke so beautifully and so powerfully. Didn't do any killing at all. His lines killed. His lines killed. That's good. And then to close with John Green, to Killer John. It's just like... That is what people call me. Honestly, it's to be blessed, man. is to be blessed in a time of darkness. I do think people reveal their truth in times of challenge. This is a time of challenge. This team, you know, is a symbol of everything I think that's good about this nation.

1:02:46Rog:They're diverse. They're full of sacrifice. They deserve our support. All of that remains true. And then there's everything else that also remains true about, you know, the chaos of football bureaucracy that we kind of got sucked into, the buzzsaw of geopolitical disturbance. But life goes on. And 22 men stepped out onto a field today in Seattle to play a game, for many of them the most important game of their life. And many of the American ones left in agony. I'm kind of struck by Matt Freeze's tears at the final whistle. They were hard to watch. I'm still clinging on to one fan who was interviewed outside a loom and field before the game.

1:03:30Rog:She said, I'm just here for a good time. And today we didn't get one, but I do hope one day soon we will. I'm going to let you go, John Green. Becky, I know you're going to step off. I just want to thank you both for being with us in this time. And I'll be honest, I will never forget today. And I'll always remember that we shared this day and shared this conversation and shared this collective experience. and you are both now completely woven in to my memory, my experience, just as for poor Rory, I'm woven into his. I have no memories that do not involve Raj.

1:04:12Rog:Thank you. We're all the better for it. John Green, you're a beautiful human being. I can't wait to see you soon, especially when your book comes out, which is when, just remind us, man. September 22nd, but let's not make it about that. Courage, Raj, thank you so much. thank you for sharing this tournament with me I've got one quick thing I do need to tell you very quickly it's from Becky you wanted to tell me about the books oh yeah I've got beef with you man oh no your books have just haunted me through the years oh that's so nice I know it's such a compliment I'm sure for an author to hear but yeah you just live rent free in my mind there are some lines that's amazing yeah yeah well done you live rent free in my mind because i've watched you play for so many years this is an incredible moment for me this is like if if god came down from heaven and was like you know what i think about sometimes is your books i don't even know how to respond to that yeah no just say thank you um but it's uh that's such a that's so great i'm sorry i'm sorry that they're sad.

1:05:21The new one comes out on September 22nd. It's a little sad as well. Yeah, I'm sure I'll read it.

1:05:27Rog:What a great note to go out with laughter in a time of darkness. Big, big love to you, man. Really, really, really, really, thank you. Same to you, thank you, Sarah. But let's hear it for Becky and John. Woo! Oh, and Josh Hart, who is proper, proper footballer, loves this team, just tweeted, US lost, but Nick still champs. Good night. Becky, it's amazing to share this with you. Let me give you a quick microphone hug. Oh, it's wonderful. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me guys. By the way, John Green should put that on the book jacket. I'm sure I'll read it. Becky Sauerbrunn.

1:06:04John Green's next blurb quote does apparently in the Seattle game, he watched it with Marshawn Lynch and at one point, Marshawn turned around and just went, that's my guy. So that's going to be the blurb quote.

1:06:14Rog:Well, that's my guy. That's my guy. Marshawn Lynch. To it again for Becky Sauerbrunn. God, I learned so much from Becky Sauerbrough. We should get someone really hairy in there. I think we should get someone with just like probably one of the most flowing locks of hair in football. Let's bring him on. The Mexican reserve goalkeeper. God, I couldn't book him. So we're going for the second best option. Can we bring him on? It's James Horncastle here. James Horncastle. He needs a theme tune. I think we have one. Once a matter, you. Hey, God, hello. Hey, what do you think you do? Hey, why are you looking so...

1:06:48Rog:Hey, it's a nice place. Ah, shut up in your face. Oh, no, do we today? Can't you? It's so lovely to see you, Hamas. Can you get your mic on so we can just move seamlessly? It was meant to be seamless. That was like, I say, a little friction, Phil, but we're going to do Spain 1, Portugal 0. How are you doing, Hamas?

1:07:08James Horncastle:I've just got the image of you being all out of faith. This is how you feel. You're cold and you're ashamed, lying naked on the floor. That's what I see right now. It's just a Tuesday in my house. I think we can get Imbruglia for one of these shows.

1:07:21Rog:I'm all out of love. I'm so lost without you. I think we can get Imbruglia for one of these shows.

1:07:28James Horncastle:Well, you think so? The Aussies are out now, though. Yeah, in the middle of the season. She strikes me as being kind of a... Did you say she's on tour in the US? I don't know if she's on tour in the US, but she still performs, Natalie Imbruglia. I follow her on Instagram. Do you really? I don't want to know. No, no, you've got to remember that Natalie Imbruglia had a career before the singing. She was in super popular Australian Soap Neighbours, which was massive in Britain. So she is an icon of our childhoods. She absolutely is.

1:07:51Rog:And on that note, talking about icons, we're going to say that for our other podcast today, an imbruglia, whose last name I'm still not that comfortable saying. Imbruglia. I kind of merged the last name.

1:08:01James Horncastle:Yeah, it sounds like imbruglia. It does sound like imbruglia. It sounds like the sort of thing that FIFA and...

1:08:05Rog:By the way, she's playing Southend on Sea on July 24th. I thought I'd just plug that concert. Might go. I'll be back. Amazing. Here he is. It's James Owen Castle. Spain won. Portugal nil. Spain, Portugal, two neighbours from Iberia El Harmonico The clash I don't know why they had to travel all the way to Jerry World Dallas to have this game They could have had it somewhere more convenient Cristiano's last dance, trademark 24 hours after he announced this World Cup would be his last a really profound moment which he celebrated by just unloading on several shows I only need to see a face once Yep.

1:08:45Rog:I mean, that's how you want to mark something. We got away with it.

1:08:48James Horncastle:He seems fine with Men in Blazers. He did call us out.

1:08:53Rog:From a distance, by the look in your eyes. By the way, that's how you celebrate, though, just like putting a finger in the eye of all the haters. He showed up for what could be his last game, looking like this, doing the Drake, where she at gesture.

1:09:08James Horncastle:Did you see this? I actually thought this was great.

1:09:10Rog:What was this? What's the gesture? I don't know what this meant. Can we see it again? Just show people again. Explain this to us, James, because I did not understand. He decided to come in and do this. What was it?

1:09:23James Horncastle:I wouldn't be able to tell you other than it's something that Drake has done before.

1:09:27Rog:I don't mean Drake, but why did Cristiano? It just looks to me like he's saying, and how do you do, fellow kids? Once again, I would remind everyone involved that Cristiano Ronaldo is 41 years old. Yeah, and he's playing peekaboo there. That's what I can do. If anyone knows in the chat, can you please enlighten me? I'm really genuinely fascinated as to, and I'm very happy that our laggy bus technology makes him just kind of come in and walk, and then we miss the hands bit. So he's doing this, right? He's doing like that? Yeah. And this is a Drake thing?

1:09:58James Horncastle:And Drake is who? Now you see me, now you don't, because he's gone.

1:10:02Rog:And when I say who Drake is, you're saying Canada is what? This is going to expand outwards. By the way, meanwhile, the actual kid, 18-year-old Lamin-Yemal, rolled up for this clash, just a game which was billed as the legend versus the future, no pressure then I'd say Lamin and Spain's World Cup has kind of gone a little on stealth mode, they were frustrated by Cape Verde in that first game stayed undefeated, the only team not to have conceded all tournament that stayed intact on the end of the week it is, it is I want to get to that opening 10 minutes, Spain and Portugal traded chances, Dani Olmo played in a likely offside went one-on-one with the keeper, flashed it wide at the post.

1:10:46Rog:During the other end, Bruno found Cristiano, stung Unai, Simon's palms at the near post after a quite laboriously telegraphed step over. The game set into a rhythm. Spain hog possession. Portugal tried to press Rodri in transition, which worked. Best chances actually fell to Portugal in that first half. João Felix heading across a netto ball. Then Unai Simon, save of his noggin. God bless. Nuno Mendes clanked a deflected shot off the crossbar from distance a few seconds later. It dropped a wicked cross. Remember, so the first half put it on a shift to keep Luminium out quiet. He's got so many tools.

1:11:25Rog:You love that player, man. You adore him. Luminium? Yeah. No, not Luminium. No, not Luminium. Nuno Mendes. I do love Nuno. I really love Nuno Mendes. I know you like really love Nuno Mendes. I think Nuno Mendes at times is the best footballer in the world. Really? I just think he can do everything. He's one of those PSG full-backs like Hakimi, who is a full-back and then sometimes plays up front in a two. Do you know what I mean? And I think he runs games from left-back, which is a really underrated ability to have. He does occasionally get caught out because he pushes so far up that sometimes the Club World Cup final last year, there is a lot of space in behind.

1:12:00But Nuno Mendes makes me happy to watch him play. That's what I like about Nuno Mendes.

1:12:05Rog:He does have so many tools, passing range, one-on-one, lockdown defense, close control, can carry the ball at speed. You know, I think we don't talk about it enough. And it was fascinating. Those two players, him and Lamine, ultimately seemed to cancel each other out until Mendes had to come off shortly into the second half. It was a bit like watching an NFL team lose their shutdown corner who can cover the opponent's best receiver. And it really did seem to change the game. Truth is, though, we didn't know it in the moment because both sides could not score. Both had no elite striker. There's a grand total of 0.23 xG between both teams.

1:12:45Rog:I mean, the positioning of the Spanish attackers was remarkable. They had about three or four of the same flash across the area. The cutback, no one there. For Portugal, I mean, what did you see, James? Ronaldo, Spain didn't fear his pace. Once Mendes went off, João Felix had to drop back defensively. And Ronaldo just looked like a rock, like an island. started to feel more and more like when would he be substituted? And spoiler alert, he wasn't.

1:13:10James Horncastle:Yeah, a rock, an island, his own nation, the kind of People's Republic of Ronaldo subsuming Portugal. That's what this entire tournament has felt like. It's almost like he is playing for himself. He's been allowed to play for himself by his little prime minister, Roberto Martinez. Oh, my God. And this is what we get. so

1:13:31Rog:can they do some deep cuts on Thomas the Tank Engine, the Isle of Sodor Sodor what do you call the man now, he's not called the Fat Controller he's called, no he's called the Fat Controller I do a very good impression of the Fat Controller they have, what's his name do the, we're talking about the guy in America who runs Sodor which is actually a military dictatorship Sodor's human rights record is appalling I think so, Sodor I find actually quite upsetting even their train rights record is terrible There's one episode where Henry refuses to work, so they lock him in a tunnel. What message does that give to a kid?

1:14:04Rog:I actually think Thomas the Tank Engine is an avant-garde retelling of Hungary's politics in the 1950s, but I don't want to get on to it. Anyway, the game, much like the 1494 Treaty of Tortesillas, in which we remember, viewers, the Catholic Church, through the imaginary line in the Atlantic Ocean, to divide newly contacted lands between the Spanish and the Portuguese empires, Both teams seem to be quite happy to have a draw as it clocked towards regular time. But then, 91 minutes out of nowhere, Rodri fouled. Portuguese defence switched off totally. Free kick taken like that. Torres, wide awake.

1:14:39Rog:He's so hot. By the way, America, the fat controller, which is what he's called in England, shocking and out. He's called Sir Topham Hatt in your game. Oh, that's his name in England as well. Oh, is it really? But we also add the descriptor, the fat controller. I think the Wooker are our type. I've cancelled that. No, no, no. Alec Baldwin, I think, does the voiceover here. Alec Baldwin? You're not Baldwin. I'm pretty sure we got Baldwin to voice Thomas. Thomas. I can't do a Baldwin. I think we've established that. That was amazing. In Britain, Ringo Starr used to do the voiceover. That's right.

1:15:09He did. Sir Topham Hatt is a Yorkshireman who talks like this. Is he really? Oh, Thomas. You're causing confusion and delay. In my autocracy. Thomas, you will be sent to the Gulag. Oh, Christiana.

1:15:25Rog:I think we stay on the football. I think I'm going down a bit. I love Salty, the dock engine. I don't approve of the... These are non-canon characters. I love the non-canon characters. The cranes. Oh, come on. I don't want to hear from a crane. I like the minor characters. Don't kill me. Anyway, back to Mourinho. Harold the helicopter. It's nonsense. No, come on. Don't come in with your woke nonsense. Six minutes. Channeling Michel Marino. No. Nick Almarino, I'm old enough to remember him when he was a makeshift Arsenal No. 9. It felt like that all over again. He charged away after scoring lethally, as he had done against Germany.

1:16:03Rog:2024 Euro's quarterfinals. It was his 119th minute in there. He was elated. And so were we, weren't we? Because we didn't have to watch 30 more minutes of that crap.

1:16:12James Horncastle:Rory just wanted him to celebrate a la Cristiano. I wanted the full... I have had enough of the World Cup of Love. I now want games to end. with largely South American teams brawling with Europeans. I think that's important. And I want to see players taking the piss out of other players. I wanted Marino to run to the corner flag, do a full-on sue, and retire Ronaldo in a wrestling suit. Like Lukaku doing the Trump dance at the end there. Did the Trump dance? He did, yes. He was in the centre circle. He got all his Belgian teammates together, and they all did the Trump dance led by him. so it's gone from the world cup of love to the work of spite yeah you know what now america

1:16:54Rog:are out i'm all for it i'm all for it um i am four balls uh it's got a pitch for netflix series u.s men's national team past managers as thomas the tank engine characters don't drag me into that wormhole i'm not afraid of a good time look oh my god by the way is bruce arena is not a Thomas the Tank Engine character with his purse lips. Bruce Arena is Gordon. Oh, definitely. That's who he is. High five for that one. Look at that. He's Gordon. It's not my first rodeo, you know. Astonishing moment of theatre still to come. Oh, the indignity. Two, actually. First of all, Ronaldo's face in that moment.

1:17:35Look, it's easy to mock Ronaldo.

1:17:37Rog:I mean, there's a canvas of anguish and disappointment. He is. Ronaldo is not a great character in the sense He doesn't make himself easy to like, I think. But we shouldn't lose sight of what an extraordinary player he's been.

1:17:49James Horncastle:Oh, no, and we weren't allowed to because in the mix zone afterwards, he did say, I have won the European Championship. I have won the Nations League. He didn't even say I. He said, Cristiano has done these things. Amazing. Did he really do third person? He's done third person for the last two days.

1:18:03Rog:Anyway, respect for going third person. There's a very small number of people who can do that. The Queen, a baseball player, Ricky Henderson, who used to say to journalists, Ricky don't like it when Ricky's limo is late, he'd say. And also Hitler loved the third person. And now Ronnie... And you do it when you're not being broadcast. I do it all the time, just casually, socially. And we're not allowed to look you in the eye. Yeah, yeah. We talked about that, Raw. We talked about that. I mean, look, I felt for him in this moment. His face did look like a canvas of anguish, disappointment, six World Cups.

1:18:35Rog:He's a highly competitive human being, like levels that none of us can imagine. None of the six World Cups did what he'd set out to do, what he'd dreamt of. And he was left like Captain Ahab at the end of Moby Dick, all my means of saying, my motive and my object, man.

1:18:52James Horncastle:Yeah, but at the same time, he has won a European Championship, which was something that they'd never won before. They'd never won anything until Cristiano started playing for them, even when they had the great Eusebio at the back, up front for them. They didn't qualify for World Cups between 1966 and... Pado bens.

1:19:19James Horncastle:It really is.

1:19:20Rog:It's the pain.

1:19:27Rog:They were a tiny country. He made a tiny country.

1:19:31James Horncastle:Yeah. In terms of population, you know, it's, it's, I think Haiti is of a similar size in population. Portugal is a miracle. Portugal, I mean, they are the new Dutch It's just because a lot of Brits go and play golf there, they think it's bigger than it actually is, when it's a tiny country And it's footprint in football is astonishing Yeah, and look it was a difficult tie, Portugal this is what we said with the US sometimes you run into the wrong team at the wrong time Portugal could easily, in another world have made the semi-finals, they're not good enough to win it but they just happened to run into Spain Spain were better than them, Portugal didn't really lay a love on them after that first half, once the world's best player Nuno Mendes went off.

1:20:09Rog:By the way, just to be clear, we did not run into the wrong team at the wrong time. You ran into A team at the wrong time. Yeah, the A team. It was a big mistake. The A team. B.A. Barakas. Yeah, we ran into not the A team who were putting Fism for a crime they didn't commit. Don't get me off on that. I used to love, by the way, I used to think Murdoch was the coolest guy ever when I was a kid. There is a question as to whether, given the weight of the quality of players they've got, you do have to look at Portugal and think, look, but this is an underperformance. Well, we'll get to that in a minute.

1:20:40Rog:I do want to say, the US, we didn't get into a good team. Morocco beat Canada, Canada played a very good team. Mexico lost to a very good team, England.

1:20:50James Horncastle:That required an epic performance from England as well.

1:20:53Rog:Yeah, I mean, the US... It was with a whimper, that is true. It was like, no one going into this was like, oh my God, this is a mountain. Thierry even said, when the US, or if the US win, then they'll have a real Everest in Spain. Yeah.

1:21:07James Horncastle:And also, it was thought of as Belgian B, because all of those big stars weren't playing. And then you had Rudy Garcia, who he was so washed. He was in the Saudi Pro League, where he got sacked by Al Nasser. And I'm pretty sure, just as Potch was talking to AC Milan about taking over after this World Cup, the Belgian Football Federation were already, I think, looking at people to replace Rudy Garcia, even before he'd actually participated in the World Cup.

1:21:37Rog:So what do they want? Do they want someone who has a Hugo Boss contract? Do you know someone? No, no. I think, no. By the way, we missed a quick minute. I do want to hit 96 minute. Delicious cross whipped into the Spanish box. That tiny dancer, Bernardo Silva, leapt up in front of Rodri, flicked a header, agonizingly over the bar. Really stunning moment in the wake of it that you loved. Oh, amazing. Bernardo, just fearlessly competitive as a human being. All the City players talk about, like, we're competitive. He is, like, my God, next level. He almost got into it. I think you call it an almost fight with his old Manchester City teammate, Rodri.

1:22:15James Horncastle:This is Real Madrid's Jose Mourinho already getting in his ear, saying, this is the Bernardo I need. He's trying to prove himself to Jose. Look, I'm going to fall out with my former teammates. It's quite unusual to see two people who've spent a lot, I mean, they've played together for the better part of a decade. They will be friends. I think they're relatively close, Roger and Bernardo. And it was a proper argument. It was very odd and quite gratifying to see. I quite liked it. Yeah. Again, teams should get knocked out and take it really poorly. It's important. It's World Cup tradition.

1:22:48Rog:So then your question is, right, all of that skill, all of that squad, the man management that needed to happen and probably didn't happen, Which golden generation will Roberto Martinez squander next? Norway.

1:23:01James Horncastle:I think that now that Koeman has gone from Holland, Roberto Martinez will wake up tomorrow morning and there'll be an email offering him the Holland job.

1:23:10Rog:So just to recap, he's ruined. Who's he ruined? Belgium. No, he did okay with Belgium. I think Martinez did okay with Belgium. He's a sweet tree man. Ruined Everton's golden generation. No. No. Everton's bronze generation. Relegated Wigan. Everton's chin.

1:23:23James Horncastle:After winning the FA Cup, Grant.

1:23:26Rog:I really like Roberto I fell out with Roberto Roberto fell out with me I still really like Roberto if you're listening to Roberto let's be friends again come back but it is a bit it is slightly weird that he's become this kind of like well we're a talented international team we'd better get Roberto Martinez in it is a slightly odd career shift he's like weirdo Carlo Ancelotti Carlo Ancelotti's known for really well man managing Roberto's almost like bring him in and he will do the dysfunction dysfunctional things that will destroy your team. And people keep giving them jobs. I don't know to what extent Roberto was in control of the one selection issue that mattered.

1:24:03The rest of the team, one to ten, make perfect sense.

1:24:06Rog:We said in our preview that there's only two men who still think that Ronaldo is still the Ronaldo of Real Madrid. And one is Roberto Martinez, the manager. And the other is the person he reports to, Cristiano Ronaldo. And it turned out to be true.

1:24:22James Horncastle:And I think if you look at Brazil going out and Portugal going out, they've both played players who shouldn't really be in the team. Neymar coming on at a crucial stage in that game the other day and Ronaldo playing most of the minutes. And it probably comes down to... Começal! Começ, you know? Brasil e Portugal, now é tudo bem.

1:24:45Rog:Tudo bem! Spain set today a Guinness World Record for the longest run without conceding at the World Cup. I don't think that's not... Bueno, bueno. Muy bueno. Show Guinness tweet. We're now not doing Guinness tweets because we're going off on tangents. They do look blunt. Hey, that's our cup tees collection. We don't need those anymore. They are... Spain have now surpassed the previous record. Why is that a Guinness World Record? What? Because they're sponsors, trademark of the World... I don't know why. I think they've staged an intervention on FIFA.

1:25:18James Horncastle:FIFA cannot be trusted with football anymore. Guinness are coming in.

1:25:21Rog:I mean, the honest truth is longest run without conceding at the World Cup. They do look blunt up top. In my notes, which I didn't update, sadly, and this is going to, if it was in my diary, there'd be a tear stain and dropped on it. I wrote, Roar, can the United States beat these? This might provide some solace to our disappointed audience. No, the United States could not have beaten Spain. They were not going any further. No one who played in Seattle today is getting past the quarterfinals. You don't think Sebastian Berhalter could have, like Rodri? No. Could they not have Cabo Verde'd them?

1:25:59No. Do you not think Cejino Des going down there, would it? No. I think Ferran Torres is too handsome. Okay. That's the special sauce.

1:26:08Rog:Oh, my God. Let's pop it up. Jonathan Williamson has got something that you should probably look away from.

1:26:13James Horncastle:This is Belgium. Ah, there it is, the Trump dance. That's what they were doing.

1:26:19Rog:This is where we are now, America.

1:26:22James Horncastle:Ah, the village people. Axel Witzel, look at him, he's loving it.

1:26:26Rog:He's 13 years old. He's the same age as Donald Trump.

1:26:29James Horncastle:Charles de Quetelaire looks like he's on the hull of a yacht. Charles is very awkward for de Quetelaire. There's a lot of people who he goes on holiday with at Martha's Vineyard. Yeah. Won't approve of this joke.

1:26:40Rog:Not at all. A big exile from the island. He might not be allowed on some boats. By the way, Witzel was 26 in nightclubs, listening when village people were massive. He's completely in his element. Macho, macho man. He's old enough to remember when people didn't realise that they were gay. God bless. What do you think? Oh, my God. This is definitely... We're better at doing Thomas the Tank bits, aren't we? Old Gumbo says about the Thomas discussion, does this mean tangents are back? We want tangents. We will move on. By the way, one quick bullet on last night. We talked about what English players think about the Azteca.

1:27:19Rog:Daily Mail had an interview today with an English security official. You'll love this, Ru. We talked about our players. They're used to playing for Real Madrid. Barcelona, the biggest Premier League clubs. It's in their first experience of something like this. He added, some players regularly experience more hostile atmospheres in domestic football. joking, sometimes the atmosphere at Everton's worse than the Azteca. Well, that is true for the Everton players. Yeah. Oh my God. I walked into that. That is my Turkey theory, which is that the Azteca is really intimidating, but there are lots of intimidating atmospheres in world football.

1:27:55And at a certain point, there's a level of intimidation that doesn't affect the players anymore. So it might be a little bit more intimidating than Napoli, but not a huge amount. Yeah, but Everton is a really poor example.

1:28:04James Horncastle:Yeah, but you're right about Turkey because do you remember that time when Kane played there and his eardrums seemed to burst. Yeah, yeah. Too loud. Yeah, it wasn't.

1:28:12Rog:Last night was his voice, Turkey. His voice went, yeah. This man is just like, he feels things.

1:28:16James Horncastle:He'll lose his sense of smell one day. He sounded like Joe Pesci by the end of last night.

1:28:20Rog:He'll lose his sense of smell. He'll lose touch with his physical connection to his own organs. More quotes in Pochettino post-game via Tom Boger of The Athletic. In the next weeks, we can start to talk if the Federation wants to talk. Right now, it's about resting a little bit, to think, have conversations with the Federation to see what the decision is. I'm so happy we built a very good relationship. Now is not a moment to talk about my future.

1:28:47James Horncastle:I think you should say thank you. Are you going to say thank you, Rog?

1:28:50Rog:We only say thank you in the nation when we're commanded to in a press conference en masse. Will he stay? Quick rip around. I don't think there's a current job for him, is there, in Europe? Is there anything available that he'd want?

1:29:05James Horncastle:I don't think he'll stay. I think he misses the smell of the grass. I think he misses the day-to-day work.

1:29:10Rog:He's been pretty clear to English journalists that he what? He spent the last two years flirting to try and get a job, yeah. That is absolutely true. Yeah, what jobs are still available? Nothing, mate. Fulham announced Arbeloa? No, he's still waiting for a work permit. Oh, well, that's, yeah. Brexit.

1:29:27James Horncastle:That's Brexit. We're allowed to do that. That's our thing.

1:29:30Rog:Okay. The audience can't be divisive about that. That's our stuff. Clearly, for sure, we've got many things. Let's look at tomorrow. Argentina play Egypt here in Atlanta. We're going all over to the game. ATL. Argentina is still both reeling and recovering from the 3-2 extra time win against the People's Champion, Cape Verde, on Friday night, which coach Lionel Scalonia said by the end of the game, it was, quote, a matter of defending like a cornered cat. Loves alliteration, Lionel. Said Argentina will correct their mistakes, but he's grumbling about the limited time. Just four days, that's all we have to hit control Z and undo the missteps that allow Cape Verde.

1:30:07Rog:I don't think he knows Control-Z, does he? What's Control-Z?

1:30:11James Horncastle:Control-Z?

1:30:12Rog:Yeah, it's where you... I don't know. Like footballing, what did that game, the remarkable Cape Verde game, show us about Argentina that we didn't know already? It showed us that they still have in them the old psychological complexes that used to haunt them before 2022. That if you can kind of frustrate them, head them back, not let them kind of fulfill that sense of destiny that powers them, that they still have that kind of tortured Argentine soul. It's still there. You need to extricate it.

1:30:42James Horncastle:Yeah, and they like to relax into an upset, which they did twice in that Capa Verde game. And Rory's right. I think Scaloni, when he was talking about that cornered cat, he saw the cat in Lucille that lost to Saudi Arabia in the opening game, and he didn't want to be that cat again. So...

1:31:01Rog:Scaloni, if you're watching, Control-Z is the universal keyboard shortcut used to undo your last action. Do you dig? I like to select and delete. Do you really? Yeah. That's so interesting. Two different kinds of people in this world. Scaloni has said he thinks Egypt have got more attacking weaponry than Cape Verde. Ooh. Led by Mo Salah. Bing! Who hopes to have a pair of functional hamstrings by tomorrow. Manchester City's Omar Marmouche. Needs to be a lot better. about at least one chance he's had against Australia. Didn't convert between the hours of two and four every morning. Egypt appearing in their first ever round of 16 matchup after their first knockout win, which can allow them to play with the freedom of someone gambling with Housh Dinar or ordering DoorDash on the company credit card.

1:31:47Rog:What are we expecting from Egypt tomorrow? Sit deep, try and catch them on the break and hope that Marmoush, who's actually, I think, has been really poor in this tournament, is better. Because Salah can't carry the attack by himself. He's not quick enough to do it. And it's also really obvious where the danger is with Egypt. So Argentina will stick a couple of players on Salah and try and shut him down. Mahmoud has to step up. Thus far, I was very disappointed with him in wherever I saw him. We've reached the part of the night where we figure out what everyone suddenly believes by taking a look at Calci percentages.

1:32:18Rog:To peek into the brains of football fans everywhere. Scan below, sign up and trade on Calci. We've just spoken about tomorrow's Argentina-Egypt match. Did I say we were going to be going to watch one certain Lionel Messi? Gentoo figures prominently in this golden boot race for the ages. Three players tied at seven goals apiece. The GOAT, Messi, a French wonder, Mbappe, a literal Viking, Haaland. Still think Balogun's going to win it. But given what we've seen and what we expect, who ends up winning this award? I suppose, I mean, Messi's still got an extra game, potentially, hasn't he? They've not played in the 16 yet.

1:32:55And the game I think he'll fancy scoring in as well. So maybe Messi from a mathematician, if we've been scientific about it, Horny.

1:33:03James Horncastle:Yeah, I mean, Mbappe is surrounded by so much, yeah, he's got so much chance creation around him. But I'm beginning to like Haaland. Beginning to like Haaland because he is scoring at the World Cup like he scores in the Champions League, which is just ridiculous, where he's scoring two goals every game. and I wouldn't put it past him to do that against our shaky English defence in Miami either. What about Harry Kane? Where's Harry Kane in there? He's not there. He's not there. There you are. That's that conversation for you.

1:33:35Rog:There you are. Tuttlebane! Tuttlebane! In the second game, Switzerland will try and crack Colombia's defence which can be stingier than Uncle Scrooge tipping calculator. Just a single goal so far. Swiss tying the red and white hopes to 20-year-old Johan Manzambi, three goals, two assists. Delirious player. The manager, Murat Yakin, says can be used at, quote, every single position. Raw, Switzerland looked completely unremarkable in that opening 1-1 draw against Qatar. One of the first and few. This game could have been an email scenarios in this tournament. They've managed to turn that around.

1:34:10Rog:What have they unlocked, gents, in their three-match run where they've outscored their opponents 8-2? You think they're sneaky good, don't you?

1:34:17James Horncastle:I do. I've seen a lot of Switzerland in the last four years because they either qualify at the expense of Italy for World Cups or they beat Italy in European Championships. I think Murat Yakin is a very shrewd coach. I thought they would have gone further in the last Euros. Manzambi, as he said, can play everywhere. I think he's been the revelation of this tournament so far. He will get a big Premier League move. Newcastle, I believe. Yes, possibly. Ooh, the horny's got information. Well, no, they have sold Big Sandro, so they are flush with cash. But I think the Swiss, you never want to... I don't know why people bad-mouth the team that's got Granit Xhaka, who Xabi Alonso wants at Chelsea, and, okay, Dolmy Oboi, Remo Freule in midfield.

1:34:57James Horncastle:They're a good team. They're a really good team. They are a good team. Switzerland, this is a long-standing theory of mine, Switzerland are actually what we think Belgium are. They are a country that has industrialised youth development to get them to where they want to be, which is sort of in the quarterfinals. They do it. It's one of those places that the US will never look at as like, how do they do it? But the best model for what the US should be thinking about is probably Switzerland.

1:35:20Rog:To get to the quarterfinals. When you said that, my heart just contracted. But at the same time, I think it's very important that Colombia win this game, because otherwise there's just far too many Europeans in the quarterfinals. Yeah, I know, it's just dark. A difficult PS for Colombia. First and only team who've had to play matches in all three host countries. Canada, Mexico, United States, all out of the tournament, by the way. Marker reports Colombia have racked up almost 6 ,000 travel miles. That's a lot of in-flight stroopwafels. It's time for the food. It's time for European Mind Cannot Comprehend.

1:35:55Rog:Oh, look at this. Oh, my.

1:36:03That's very good. I like that.

1:36:05Rog:Did you like that? Okay. May, may, may. I spent a lot of money on that to tear myself up. Thank you, fellas. Thank you. Tonight, we've got... One of the finest vaunted Mexican establishments in Atlanta. El Tesoro. Bring this babacaba de des tacos. Raised and shredded beef in savory chili salsa. I've got to say my nipples are already tingling. Make sure you move your mic up so you don't give Mesopotamia. Well, we heard you, please, for no more burgers. We are going to Waffle House tonight, lads, so just remember that. We've got your beef in a different form. You're welcome, as always. Eat, ponder, score.

1:36:57Rog:have you got a board? we got the list up there last night we didn't come close to cracking it I must say the levels have gone up I can't wait for the day when airworn gets pushed off the pro level it's got a nice kick to it the longer it stays in your mouth the more you're in, you're going to feel like you've been. You've been giving a little kick in the damn believe. Right, so, Roger, I've got two stores today. Okay. I know what you're going to do now. First of all, for the – I think this is like a good 7.8, but go on. First of all, for the – we'll do the tattoos in a sec. Nikki, who's the world's greatest person.

1:37:36Yeah, official. Bought some cookies today from KK's Sweet Treats Atlanta. I asked her to get the name. Yeah. It's a 13-year-old girl who is a licensed baker. They are some of the best cookies I have ever eaten. So they get a 10. Because when you get a really high-quality cookie...

1:37:52Rog:Hang on a minute. You're just doing a bit because it is very cute. No, no, no. You're essentially just moving a right... It's not an official part of the league table. I didn't eat any of the cookies. I was worried they were space cakes. The cookies were amazing. But I wanted to give KK... She's 13. She makes amazing cookies. That deserves praise. Let's do the tacos now. Okay. I say 7.8. 8.4. It warns you're safe for another night, you mad bastard. I've got 8.2. Really? Yeah. That's a good taco. The brisket is very marinated. A little bit of brisket. I've taken a lot of brisket at home. I can say there's no better way to drown out all the sadness than with a taco.

1:38:30Rog:I find that true in life. It's a true American way. Last but not least, raw gob your mouth. I don't have anything to do. What? You're going to read the letter? There's no letter. We want to hear from you. Tell us the best of your World Cup journeys, experiences, memories. All of my journeys end tonight, by the way. I don't know what to do with myself after this, other than to go to the Waffle House for a sad smothered and covered. Drop us a line, Men in Blazers Discord. That's the only type of life I know. I'm doomed. Send us any emails. Take us on socials. Let's make memories together. Tonight, we've got a new edition.

1:39:06Rog:Oh, there's a reason I like that. We've got a new edition to the Men in Blazers GFOP talent pool. the incredible work of Discord user Milhouse. I hope that's your real name. Put together these remarkable works of art. Look at these. Milhouse sent us a tagline to accompany these masterpieces. This World Cup season, quench your thirst with a Roger Loeb. Still trying to make that happen. Worm burner. Do you like that? Or Worm burner IPA. I like how they are made to look pixelated, like they are prizes in like a Zelda game on a Super Nintendo.

1:39:38James Horncastle:Yeah, is that like a Jaeger worm burner there? I'm looking at the omlaut on Malut.

1:39:45Rog:I've got to tell you, it makes me incredibly thirsty. I love that label on Roger Lee. Can we just focus on Roger Lee, which I'm still desperate to try and make happen and is not making happen. Apart from you and me, Milhouse, send me your postal in an email, meninblazerdm.com. I'll send you a patch for your remarkable creativity. That looks like it took a long, long time. And I'm going to need... My tattoo has lost its integrity. like FIFA's disciplinary processes.

1:40:09James Horncastle:Do we knock points off this? Yeah, you're going to review your score now.

1:40:13Rog:No. After Digiboo! New stories, 7.3. Number 20! We're still trying to work out why every referee, no matter who they are, they're all different. They've got different personalities. They've got their own dreams. Yeah, they are individuals. It's not bloody pluribus, is it? But when they come off the VAR thing, all of them are just like, after review! Can you imagine a podcast between the three of them? Oh, my God. Watch out. Yeah, it's just like so, I've just blown all of you. I don't understand it. They get trained in this. Like Ira Glass on This American Life trains everybody who tells a story on it.

1:40:49Rog:Do you speak like idiots? It's like.

1:40:50James Horncastle:They do get trained on it.

1:40:51Rog:Do they? They do. To shout out in staccato. Pierluigi Colina. He does.

1:40:55James Horncastle:Yeah, he reviews their.

1:40:57Rog:Does he like do it in the like prison condition where he slaps them really hard across the face if they're not screaming loud enough? Have that reveal. that's it for tonight thank God we've covered a lot of ground a lot of sadness tomorrow I'm headed to Boston the land of Damon Affleck yes that Boston Massachusetts will host our next stop on the Matchday Live Tour this Thursday July 9th at the Marriott Long Wharf I live in a Marriott ahead of the course of final match between France and Morocco it's going to be a beautiful day in an incredible city Ro and I will be joined by World Cup champ host of the women's game our dear friend Sam Ewish she's very good We love Sam.

1:41:35Rog:Oh, my God. We've got the genius Red Sox legend, World Series champion, Pedro Martinez. I've got so many questions for that madman. And the mayor of Boston, Michelle Wu, is going to come hang out with us, amongst others, amongst others. It's a free show. Come be with us. Let's make World Cup memories over a cup of chowder. Link in the show notes below. That's it for tonight. It's been a night of agony. It's been a night of frustration, sadness, disappointment, all the good stuff. It's why we watch football. So those things can happen. Look, if you... Just remember, tudo bem. Tudo bem. If you can believe in life after love, America, a famous philosopher once said, that's what we've got to do together.

1:42:21Rog:We've got to lift each other up. I do want to hear from you in the comments. Let us know how you're feeling. Did we overestimate? Did we underestimate? Did we overperform? Did we underperform? Did we get high on our own supply? What happened? How did we kind of come in here, go there, and then just when we were so close? What is Charles DiCettolaro's investment strategy? All the crucial questions. I mean, these are the things that we're thinking about.

1:42:49James Horncastle:He's now got a win against the US on his portfolio.

1:42:52Rog:Another runt-stunted journey that we've shared together. But this tournament, thank God, goes on. We've got the greats. We've got the big dogs. Lionel going off tomorrow. We're going to see them with our own eyes. We're going to talk about it tomorrow night. Much-needed moment of joy we're going to leave you with from our Match Day Live. Another, oh, this is amazing. Another kid, the Marriott Bomboy Take Your Shot Challenge. This was the American optimism that I wanted to see on the field today, Ro. This kid, World Cup final tickets on the line. Shoot your shot, America. Be like this, gent. This is Rog.

1:43:26Rog:I hope I lifted your spirits a little bit tonight. I need a hug. I need a cuddle. I need some smothered and covered. Big, big love. America. Let's do it. Can we hear it for the mighty Matthew? Oh! Oh!

1:43:45Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!

1:43:51Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! USA! USA! USA!