Wagner Moura on Brazil football, his best World Cup memories, and why being a football fan made him a better actor: Men in Blazers 01/16/26

0:00You're listening to the Men in Blazers Media Network Suboptimal Radio. If I could guarantee you only one of these things in 2026, that you could win an Oscar or that Brazil can win the World Cup, which would you take? Oh, dude. Oh, come on.

0:24My guest today is simply put, the Vinicius Jr. of acting, fresh off becoming the first Brazilian male to win a Golden Globe for Best Actor in a Drama with the incredible The Secret Agent, a gentleman of whom it's been said, most actors shape a character to fit themselves. He shapes himself to fit the truth. Here to talk about his life journey, his love of football, and how Priscilla are going to win the World Cup, to join to say benvindo to Mr. Wagner Moura. Obrigado. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Parabéns. It's an incredible time to be here. Parabéns. Thank you. Thank you very much, yes.

0:58I want to start off by just saying I adore watching you act. Oh, thank you. Like so many of us, I first saw you as Pablo Escobar in Narcos. The Secret Agent is a dazzling poem of a movie about memory and trauma. But I mean, or the way that you lose yourself in the parts you play. We love Tom Hanks. But when you watch Tom Hanks, you are fully aware whatever character is playing. You're like, that's Tom Hanks. But when I watch you, I forget it's you. What's the secret? You know, it will sound crazy, but the more I play myself, I think the stronger it is. So even when I play someone like Pablo Escobar, it's a little bit like myself in there.

1:41It's how I see the character, how I connect my emotions with the character. But somehow it's a little bit of myself in there always. It's how I see him. So it's sort of contradictory, isn't it? The more you play yourself, the less you appear to the outside world. That's what I think, yeah. It's authenticity and ultimately truth. Honestly, yeah. When you've got these two crazy weapons, you've got your voice and you've got your eyes. Do you put a lot of thought into how you're going to use both of those or do you just do it by instinct, like Rodrigo choosing to use his left or right foot? No, just do it.

2:17And I think that in this particular character, this came from a very personal thing, right? Like this film was born from the director, Cláudio Medansofilho, and myself sharing our perplexity over what was going on in Brazil from 2018 to 2022, when Brazil had a fascist government that was trying to bring back the values of the dictatorship that we had in Brazil from 64 to 85. So it felt just natural that Cláudio decided to place, to set up our film during the dictatorship. But actually the film is about contemporary Brazil. I loved watching it. I mean, it was very powerful. I spent a lot of time in Brazil in the run-up to the World Cup in 2014, which was a time of incredible social and political unrest.

3:03And I saw a lot of the joy that football brought, the connection that football could bring in that moment. In the same way, this is a massive moment for Brazilian cinema. I'm still here winning the Oscar last year, Secret Agent being critically acclaimed, winning awards. I know the current president, Lula, calls you almost on the regs with every award. Isn't that beautiful? Yeah. It is beautiful. I think the democracy and culture, they walk together. You know, we finally have, again, a president in Brazil that values culture and believes that culture is an important thing for the development of the country.

3:42And that's just amazing. And the way Brazilians engaged with this film, and with I'm Still Here last year as well, like looking at us and going like, oh, these artists, they represent our country. That was really cool. So I wanted to ask you that. Do you feel that you are on a journey for this personally distinctive Brazilian movie? Is it more about the box office and the awards? But is it something like football? something that can deliver a movement of national pride for Brazil. Do you feel that? I do. I do. And it usually happens, like you said, with football, with like it happened with Ariton Senna as a, you know, like when back when he was a Brazilian hero.

4:21It's beautiful to see this happening with films, with culture, with artists. It's pretty special. We just watched you dance your way onto the Golden Globes stage. Best actor in a drama. You got the double G, as Snoop Dogg would say. Here's what I'd love to know. In that moment, you win. Julia Roberts hugged you on the way to the stage. Are you like, and you get there, you're like, I'm the king of the world. Inside you is your voice saying like, oh, my God, it's that woman from Notting Hill. And then you're like, oh, my God, I've got to get on and off in 45 seconds or they're going to camera. I don't remember my walk.

4:55It's so overwhelming. I don't remember the walk from the table to the stage. I only remember, of course, Julia Roberts, because she was like at the end of my path to the stage. And to see that beautiful, extraordinary actor there giving me love. And I went up there and Coleman Domingo was like sort of dancing in a sort of like a Brazilian way. And then I got relaxed. I just needed to, I just, my only concern was like I had to deliver my speech as fast as I can because I was really nervous. And when they played that music and they go like, get out. I didn't want that to happen. So I did it as fast as I could.

5:36So it's like half king of the world and it's half like trying to follow the rules. And have to follow the rules. Yeah, do it properly. Yeah. How does that moment feel for you on the inside? Because it is outsized. You've won the Golden Globe. You've hinted at it. There was a beautiful video of Brazilians in bars, Brazilians in cinemas, losing their minds with joy watching you. Have you seen, by the way? I've seen some of it, yeah. Have you seen the graffiti, enormous portrait of you in Porto Alegre? I did, yeah, in Porto Alegre. Huge head, golden glove. What's that like to watch? It's amazing.

6:11I mean, honestly, this is the most important thing, to be very honest with you. It's like to see the reconnection because like I said, again, this fascist president, he was very efficient in transforming artists and, you know, academics, journalists into the enemies of the people. He would sell us like this intellectual elite that was against the people, like in pure fascist way. And it's beautiful to see Brazilians now not buying that, you know, and going like, no, this is us. This is our culture. This is our, these people represent our culture. And Brazil is such a unique country in terms of culture, this gigantic country in South America that speaks Portuguese, so diverse.

6:54So it's just a joy. I mean, the entire world is in that ecosystem of Brazil. I mean, it is. It's like a Star Wars cantina. Everything is in that. Yeah, yeah, it is. And that movie is creating joy for every, I mean, every walk of life. Brazil is such a diverse country. know i probably one of them the us it it's like that too but you know that you know that the brazilian passport is the passport that uh is more like in the black market is more is the most valuable passport because everybody can look like a brazilian right like so it's a very diverse place so in porto alegre for example where they where they had that that mural it's very italian it's very germany the city where i come from is very african salvador uh bahia and you know a big Lebanese community.

7:42So it's a very unique and special country. It's beautiful to see the connection, the reconnection of these people with their artists. This fascinates me. You are sitting here in the biggest global moment of your career. And I know you've got a brown belt, is it, in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? Jiu-Jitsu, yeah. You also do the Mai Tai on the regs. You practice transcendental meditation. So when life and Hollywood becomes overwhelming, these are rituals that bring you back to yourself. Absolutely great, yeah, especially meditation. Meditation changed my life. I've been doing this for 20 years, and sometimes I'm not very consistent with it.

8:26But when I am meditating twice a day, I can feel the difference. My wife can feel the difference very strongly. Is that a life lesson that there's no stress that a roundhouse kick or a mantra-based meditation can't do? Yeah, it's a mantra-based meditation. And it's a connection. It's just being silent for a while. It's just our world is so noisy, isn't it? So it's just a moment just to be with yourself, which is awesome.

9:00Narcos became a cultural phenomenon, and that was reinforced by the sad Escobar me. just that single image of a man physically, mentally defeated, ruminating on every bad decision he's ever made to get there. What does that feel like when you see that image out in the wild? Because anyone can win an award, but to be made immortal, to own an emotion is for the very few. I love those memes. You know, like we're very sad in the swing or in the swimming pool. But for example, Narcos was also a very interesting thing for me in terms of culture. Because as you know, Brazil is very isolated in South America.

9:40And Brazilians, it's weird because Brazilians are not seen as Latin American. It's a different thing because we don't speak Spanish and we're surrounded by countries that do. And we don't have much connection with those countries. So when I was working in Colombia and working with actors from all over South America and talking about the drug trade, which is something that it's a big issue in my country, In South America, it's about, you know, countries that produce and export drugs and made me think of so many things, especially the so-called war on drugs, which is like, for me, it's a big mistake.

10:17It's a way of social control to, you know, it's been killing so many, you know, young people in the favelas of Brazil and in Mexico and in other countries of South America. So that was a very important thing for me. And you know it was great because talking about culture and identity, narcos was something that brought me an understanding that I was more than just being a Brazilian. I was a South American man. I was a South American, Latin American dude. That was very important. That was very cool. I often ask footballers when they see a highlight of themselves scoring an unbelievably transcendent goal, do they think it's them they're looking at or do they also look at it and be like wow that's crazy when you look at yourself as pablo escobar when you look at yourself as the sad meme i don't know if you use it but do you feel like you're looking at yourself in that moment that's such an interesting question i yeah yeah it's kind of myself and and and but at the same time it's it's it's not i just find it funny i love it you know i love because it's it's sort of sad i wish i wish there's so many headlines for that like i i've seen so many different ones like oh when you discover that carnival is going to take like more than a week to happen and it's like that if it was me i'd send it to my kids when i'm a little bit disappointed just for my own dad i'm not very techy savvy so i don't have social medias i don't have any of that but my friends sent it to me and i just love it i want to talk to you about your football fandom both your club and your nation i do know you are football mad wagner yes first of all i've got this photograph of you from 1995 at the school of communication at the federal university of bahia uh-huh where i know you played for like the university yes wow yes yes that's right and and they discovered that this journalist andrea hanning which became a very important sport journalist nowadays in Brazil was part of that team.

12:25You looked like a young Edinson Cavani when I was doing that. What kind of a footballer was young Wagner Moore? Listen, I love to play football. I love it. I just love it. It was one of my favorite things to do. I'm not great at it, but I love to do it. You got the flow. You had the haircut. You had the footballer haircut. What position were you, Wagner, when you played? Middle. Yeah, it's just in the middle field. Just casually creating Creating, yeah. I'm a creative. I'm a creative guy. I do know you're football mad. You support your local club, Vitoria. Vitoria. And that's a big thing in my life.

13:00It is. You've said the Lions, your continental games, and your black and red kit. Rubro Negro. You've said being a football fan is a fundamental part. Of my identity, again. Yeah, totally. Again, talking about identity. What role does it play for? It's like I started to root for Vitoria. Our biggest competitor in the state is Bahia, right? which is a bin it's a bigger one they now they now have the SAF you know this SAF thing so they have money they're like part of the of the English Manchester bought them so they have like lots of money the city the city group Manchester City so they they buy expensive players and we keep like I was always fascinated by the underdogs.

13:47In 1989, Bahia won the Brazilian, the Brasileirão, the Brazilian championship. And that's when I landed in Salvador, coming from the countryside. And everybody was like, Bahia, Bahia, Bahia. And I was like, I'm going to root for the other guys. And that's in 1989 was when I decided to root for Vitoria. You know, I like the underdogs. Is there anything from football you take into your life and your art? Is that what it is? It is. You know how this is. I mean, when your team loses, it's crazy because it doesn't affect your life, right? Like, it doesn't change anything, but it just changes your mood for the entire day.

14:30My wife is like, oh my God, Vitória's going to play today. And we are not the guys who win all the time. So when I say it becomes part of my life, it's like, yeah, I'm the guy that's used to not winning all the time. It says something about my personal life. I'm going to tell you, I relate to you. I'm an Everton fan. I mean, Everton are essentially the sad Escobar meme of football teams. Vitoria has a fascinating history. I relate to it. They don't win a lot. They've struggled often. They've been relegated twice in the 21st century. Oh yeah, many times. And we've been around since 1899. It's an old institution.

15:10It's old. It's erratic. The support is more about fanatical commitment and passion. But that's another beautiful thing, because we might be losing, we might be in a very bad spot. We don't stop supporting the team. We show up at our stadium, Barradão, and we root, we change, we support. and it's not, Vitoria's fans are not the kind of fans that when the team is losing, they don't show up and which is great. So here's what I wanted to know. Why do we do it? Why do we support our clubs that break our hearts on the regs? The great poet Eduardo Galeano once wrote, football is a pleasure that hurts.

15:54Why do we do it? There's nothing else in your life that you do that gives you such broken... We're going to go to a very philosophical field right now. I don't have the answer for that. But I think it's like, yeah, when you choose it, it's then become part of your identity. And then you have to go with it, I think. I wish I could come up with a better explanation. There is no choice. There is no choice. You're part of that. You're a man of Belizean freedom. But when you were there in the stadium, like with the other fans, something magical happens there, right? Like it's like you feel that you're connected to these people that you don't know, you know, and you feel that you were all in the same, we were suffering together.

16:46And when we win, and as we don't mean that often, when we do, it's fantastic. It's fantastic. It's just amazing. I couldn't relate to you more. I mean, we do live with hope, the cousin shattered hope, a lot of heartbreak. You just use the word suffering. Do you think growing up with a lot of those as a Vittoria fan gives you a deeper emotional range as an actor, as an artist? It for sure changes my personality, the way I behave, the way I interact with things. As you know, like actors, especially in the beginning of their careers, there's a lot of rejection involved. So maybe that helped me out a little bit.

17:31Or maybe I chose that because of that. I don't know. I've just realized. Now we need a psychologist. By the way, we always need a psychologist. But when you were doing the Sade Eskobar, you were probably thinking just purely of method actors, just thinking about relegation. We'll cut you out, Wagner. So I am contractually bound to talk to you about that tournament. You were born in 1976. You've lived a lot of World Cup life. What's your most powerful World Cup memory? 1994, because it was the first time that I was here. Yeah, it was the first time that I saw Brazil winning a World Cup. My father was always talking to me about, oh, how to win in Mexico in 1970.

18:17how amazing that was. And also he used to talk a lot about 1950 when we lost for Uruguay. Against Uruguay. And that was the biggest trauma. For the nation. Now we have the 7-1 against Germany that just suppressed that. I was there for that. That was horrible. That was a national catastrophe. That was a catastrophe. But back then it was losing for, losing 1950. The Maracanaza. The Maracanãsso, exactly. And you know when Brazil goes well? When we are not the favorites. You know, when Brazil, you pay attention to that. In 1970, people, everybody was saying, oh, Pelé is too old. This is an old team.

19:02You don't know for the World Cup. Yeah, barely qualified. We barely qualified, you know, in 1994. Romário came like in the last minute, and then he became like this hero because he was the one who qualified us. and won that World Cup first. Not only Romário, of course. We had a beautiful team with Bebeto and all those. And Leonardo. Leonardo doing that horrible thing. But we did it. We did it. And then, of course, it was great to see Brazil win. In 1998, we had the thing with France. You know, Ronaldo having that Caesar. I don't know. That's such a mysterious thing. Till now, we don't know what happened.

19:46Brazil loves mysteries. Brazil loves mysteries. What happened there, but we lost. And Zidane was, you know, it was France's moment, I guess. It was amazing. But in 2002, we had that amazing team. And I think that that was the first time that we won a World Cup, sort of being the favorites, you know, because we had Hivaldo, we had Ronaldinho Gaucho, we had Ronaldo, Kaká. But I think that right now, the way Brazil... So we are not in a very great place. It's the first time that they hire a foreigner to be our manager or coach. Mr. Carlo Ancelotti. But it's simply like one of the greatest of all time.

20:30And I think he's doing well. Let's see what happens. It's a mystery. What do you think of Brazilian prospects for this World Cup? I mean, I love Carlo Ancelotti. I believe deeply in him. I mean, that man screams a role that Vagnamora could possibly play in a future biopic. The raised eyebrow of Carlo Ancelotti. Yeah, with some Italian accent. By the way, I'd love you to make an incredible football movie. I really would one day. And it's hard, you know, it's hard. Football, it's hard to be... It's a sport that I've never seen a film about football that I go like, they got it. Why is that? I don't know.

21:09I think it's time. Great documentaries, though. The best. There are great documentaries about it, but in terms of feature films, I've never seen one that I was like. I think it's time. It's time to put the Carlo Ancelotti biopic into it. You know what they were doing now? They're going to make a film about Marta. Now that's a film I go and see. A Brazilian icon, Pathfinder, a legend. Legendary soccer player, yeah. I mean, it's incredible to me that Brazil have not been in a World Cup final for nearly a quarter of a century. It's been 24 years since the original Ronaldo with his monks, Tonche. Weird thing.

21:42I don't know how to call that. Whatever it was, it worked. Whatever it was, it worked. 147 days away, what gives you the most confidence? The fact that we are not favored. You know, the fact that we are not, the attention is not on us. I don't know why, but this has been a constant thing. Brazil, when we are not the favorites, I tend to think that we have a shot. Can you make a prediction? Complete this sentence for me, Vagnamore. 2026 World Cup Brazil will

22:15win I don't know man I don't know I hope this is hope this is about hope listen I root for Vitoria so it's I'm all about hope you know it's all about hope so I and it's interesting because I don't yet know the team you know when Celotti is like is he still like I don't think Carle knows he's still like testing different players so we're not yet familiar with the entire team rich and this is another thing that happens in brazil like as the whole world is polarized politically uh they are and cbf is is you know like accused of so many corruption things as fifa you know and so there's parts of brazilians that are like a little uh skeptical about about that But even because the right wing in Brazil, the far right, they were very efficient in wearing the Brazilian jersey and going to demonstrations with that.

23:13Making the shirt a symbol of political positioning. As a symbol of the far right. So many left wingers like myself are like, I don't want to wear that shirt again. So that's sad. That's because it's an appropriation of a national symbol, right? I don't know what's going to happen. Last World Cup, I was wearing a red Brazilian jersey. Let's see what happens now. It's incredible. I mean, football is always the joy of it. I always thought it was a mirror to the world, the culture, the politics that surround you. And that is true in good times. It's also true in times of challenge.

23:55I did want to ask you, I mean, football is a mirror to society. Is football art, Wagner? like acting and cinema. I mean, you talk about finding truth as an actor. The footballers do the same. I think Brazilian players, especially after 1990, when we had, you know, because, you know, one of my favorite Brazilian teams was 1982, right? One of the greatest and never. One of the greatest ever, right? And we lost. And in 1986, playing beautifully, Socrates, Falcão, Zico, all that junior, all that team. Socrates. And we lost again. So there was at some point a mindset in Brazil that Brazilians should stop with the ginga thing and should stop with what makes, again, identity, what makes Brazil football.

24:51Football art. What it is, art. Football art. And it became to be more pragmatic. Football brutal. It became more like European football. And I didn't like that. And I think that we have the way to... So when you see Ronaldinho Gaúcho doing what he does, I go like, that's it. When we won in 2002, it was like, that's it. Now going back to the roots of what it is. Because these guys, man, it's not like they went to a football school. They learned how to play football in the favelas, in fields full of mud. So when you put these guys to play in a beautiful carpet, you expect the best from them. So that's what I wanted Brazil to come back to that again.

25:44I always joke, Wagner, walking down Copacabana Beach, you see 10 ,000 footballers on that beach playing. Any one of whom could probably play for the US team. Some of the dogs were so good. No, that I don't think so. Some of the dogs were good at football, Wagner. In Brazil, even the bloody dogs can do the KPI. Bro, like I remember like 10 years ago, it was like, oh, we're going to play the US. And everybody was like, okay, that's easy. You know, that's, you know, done. Not anymore. Not anymore. And I'm happy to see how football is growing and growing and growing and becoming a thing here in the US.

26:20I think it's great. You really mean that? Are you just kind of trying to say the right thing to the Oscar winners? I absolutely mean it. I think that it's good for the sport, the sport that I love. God bless you. From your mouth to God's ear. Jose Padilla, producer of Narcos, compared your acting. He said you are, quote, the number 10 in football. You know he said that about you. He did? Yeah. When he got you the job in Narcos, it's telling them Netflix that you spoke Spanish and you didn't speak Spanish and they gave you the role. And he said to them, I knew he would. He's the number 10 of acting.

26:51What does that mean to you in your words that you are the number 10? on any film you know that was just a sweet thing for him to say yeah you're the pelle you're the caca come on no no no no no that's just the sweet thing no no you don't accept it no no this is these guys are something different it's like they're artists and i one of the things there i that i that i my wife again i'm bringing my wife back all the time because she doesn't get it you know and that makes me really sad she doesn't get having someone she doesn't get the She can't see the color. She doesn't get the art in it. She doesn't get the beauty of how artistic that can be.

27:32Can football do things that cinema can't? Yeah, I think so. It's different, right? It's improvising, and it's being in the moment. It's not that planned, I guess. You plan, you plan. Garrincha, our another hero, he used to say, like yeah yeah we plan we plan and plan but the other guys don't know what that we're planning so let's just go show you know get there and do something else that's so funny let's do something else if you only take one thing from this interview go and look at garrincha on youtube because he was a kind of football just a legendary icon one leg bigger than the other and few people know who garrincha was i think one of the greatest dribblers of the football oh my god kind of football away if we don't know what we're doing, the opponents will even...

28:23Magical. Yeah, Gahinche was magic. And Gahinche was part of that romantic generation of soccer players. It wasn't about money, you know. They didn't get... Pelé managed to get money afterwards because he had a career and he became the king of football. But guys like Gahinche died, like, in... In poverty. Unfortunately, in poverty. In abject... In poverty. So it was about the love, you know. And connecting to art, again, I think that we artists, we can never lose the joy of doing this, you know, the joy. It has to be fun. It has to be, you know, nice. So I see sometimes Brazilian players, like, doing things that, you know, and people go like, oh, don't do that.