Will Mauricio Pochettino ACTUALLY Coach the USMNT in 2030? with Herc Gomez

19:22Herc Gomez:It goes to show you the thought process of those who are in decision-making positions right now with U.S. soccer. Mauricio Pochettino is going to be there for 2030. Let him work. But if more time is being lost, this is going to be the second generation of footballers in a generational change with a competitive atmosphere within CONCACAF, with Canada, with Mexico, with Panama, with the reemergence of Costa Rica, who didn't even make the last World Cup, where you could be in real trouble. And it's not just within CONCACAF because you're at the point where you reset the market on both the men's and women's side.

19:57Herc Gomez:And the women's side, we see what's gotten there. We see what resetting the market has gotten you back to prominence. On the men's side, you had private equity come in and it's paying this man's salary. Private equity is paying this man's salary. And you don't think they're going to want to see results outside of CONCACAF? If you are invited or were to host a Copa America, what's the level? And when you get to the World Cup in 2030, what is the bar? Because it's very easy to tell the president of the United States, we're going to win the World Cup. And then go on foreign TV in Spain, Chiringuito, El Cafecito.

20:30Herc Gomez:And then when they ask you about winning the World Cup, say, wow, I don't kick a soccer ball. I don't score goals, nor do I defend them. That's not what you told the president of the United States. So it's very easy to say one thing and mean another.

20:42Rog:Can I say, if I was Potch, to be honest, I would have thought long and hard about whether my standing was ever going to get better than it is right now in the United States after this summer with the massive crowds cheering for the team, especially in Seattle. God bless to all you fans in Seattle. You did the Lord's work. We are going to go back to half-full stadia. The ones that irritated him so much. The ones who were packed with opposing CONCACAF fans. Actually, if he gets this far, the qualifying for the World Cup, first time tough on the road, CONCACAF battles that no managers enjoyed. He's not had to face that singular footballing challenge before.

21:23Rog:It's going to be fascinating. But quick question for you, because there's a lot of this too amongst the fan base. Is there anyone better? Many US fans had delusions, to be honest, of Pep Guardiola swooping in. We've lived through a month. People have thrown the checkbook at Pep. Pep's not coming. But is there anyone realistic better?

21:45Herc Gomez:Yeah, there could be a few realistically better. Pellegrino Matarazzo is a man that I would love to be in charge. And I think it's a guy that if you say he's here until 2030, I believe he's here until 2030. He's a guy that I think knows the American athlete, the American player, has fresh ideas that could be of worth. New Jersey born, now of Real Sociedad, just won the Spanish Cup.

22:06Rog:I came on the show right before the World Cup. I actually asked him about US soccer and whether he'd be interested in the job, thinking he'd say, no, for me now, club football. And he was like, yeah, I am interested. Yeah, and he's a guy with fresh ideas, but still a realistic approach

22:22Herc Gomez:on what he has at his disposal. When he was in the Bundesliga and he was coaching teams like Hoffenheim, he didn't try to play a proactive type of football. He tried to say, hey, our mission here is to stay afloat. We got to be pragmatic. We got to defend. and within that pragmatic defensive approach, did good things, goes to Sociedad and realizes, hey, this roster allows me to play a different way. He beat Atletico Madrid in a Copa del Rey final. You know, they had a string of like 12 straight games without a defeat or one defeat only. And that one defeat was around Madrid, you know, when he played an alternate squad because he had back-to-back games, midweek games with the Copa.

22:57Herc Gomez:So this is a guy that I think could offer something fresh. But it doesn't have to be, and this is what people don't understand, it doesn't have to be, well, provide a different name. Do you think that's what they said to Spain when Luis de la Fuente came up from the U-20s? Or Lionel Scaloni in Argentina when he came up from the U-20s? It doesn't have to be that. You just have to have a plan in place, Raj. And this to me is why it gets frustrating. Because it seems like if there is a plan in place, and you're seeing what Maricio Pochettino is doing, and you're liking it, and you're saying, hey, I like this style of play, don't make the U-23 coach Steve Chirondolo.

23:32Herc Gomez:because if you saw what his team was in LAFC, it was not proactive. It was not front foot. It was not progressive play. It was pragmatic, transitional. It was based on athleticism. And maybe you can make an argument for that's what the US should be. That's not what we're seeing here. We're seeing that the US played a different brand. So there doesn't seem to be a place in plan or just something where it makes you feel good about what's going to happen in the future. Pochettino, and I want people to understand this. I want people to really understand this. It's not my opinion, the stats that I stated.

24:08Herc Gomez:Those are stats. The trophy hall are actual things happening. My opinion is I wouldn't put a coach in place who I didn't think was going to be there at the end. Too much time has gone by. And that's a problem.

24:21Rog:For another broken cycle. By the way, I couldn't agree more with you about, and I said the moment that the US were just outclassed and dumped by Belgium, that vision, that vision, that plan, that big idea for US football, you can't just delegate that and say, we'll just let Poch define it. And I couldn't agree more with you about, I mean, we are obsessed with big managers leading us as if it's a magical fix. England were with Tuchel, we're not alone. Brazil with Carlo Ancelotti. We've seen the trend in this World Cup is that international football is a strange beast. You mentioned them. Lionel Scaloni won the last World Cup as Argentina manager.

25:04Rog:Luis de la Fuente won this World Cup as Spain manager. The former never managed a club side. The latter had, I think, an 11-game spell with third-tier Alaves 15 years ago. That was the last time. International football is different. I'm going to play a very quick game with you here. I'm going to name a manager. You tell me if you would have had them as better or worse hires than Poch for this cycle. You ready for this one? Sure. Steve Chirindoli.

25:34Herc Gomez:Worse because he's unproven, and I don't think the style suits this US Men's National Team right now. You know what? I don't know what the style of this US Men's National Team is going to be because we don't know what the player pool is going to be. There's been 70-plus players in 2025 that played under him, under Pochettino. those players a lot of them are going to be transitioned out there's a new generation coming through what's that generation going to look like jim curtain well no worse gareth southgate

26:02Rog:i'd say very similar i'm contractually obliged to say the words jesse marsh

26:09Herc Gomez:no listen it'd make my job a hell of a lot easier if jesse marsh was a coach he'd give us plenty to talk about but i think that boat is sailed i love jesse marsh bj callahan i can't sit here and tell you that it's a terrible idea it's just not a great idea it's an idea that when i saw coming to play i'm like hey this doesn't look so bad but where those players who were

26:34Rog:influential during his time will be i say no oh i think he's the scaloney of american football New Jersey's Pellegrino Matarazzo. Love it.

26:44Herc Gomez:I really do like it. There's a, if you're already complex amongst Americans and they think that anything that is foreign is better than American. And they think that they need this foreign coach to come in and save American soccer. Pellegrino is a guy who's done his time. He's not some Joe Schmo off the street. He knows what it's like to be in top quality setups in the Bundesliga, in La Liga. He's well-respected. He's got fresh ideas. He's shown a penchant for playing different styles and getting results under those styles. And he wants to be here. This is another thing, Raj. You mentioned it.

27:24Herc Gomez:Who is making the decision? And what decision did you just make with Pochettino? Because you're essentially, given to what they've said, he will have a larger role in the development of American soccer. That means coaching, methodology, infrastructure. you're giving keys to somebody who necessarily won't be there at the end. That could be detrimental.

27:45Rog:I want to get back to that in a minute, but I've got to carry on with this beauty. By the way, if you want to hear more from Pellegrino Matarazzo, put the link to this in the show notes. Came on our show right before the World Cup. I was blown away by his intellect, his empathy. Super, super, super wonderful man.

28:01Herc Gomez:Next one, Thierry Henry. Thierry Henry is a guy that I think has good ideas. remains to be seen if he could put them to practice. When you have the French U23 team in a home Olympics, they kind of play by themselves. And listen, they lost who they lost to in the final, which is Spain, which is running things. But I'd love to see what he's all about in a setting like with the U.S. Men's National because he's got such a large persona within America, within the United States. Part of me thinks that could be a show, if I'm being honest. Bruce Arena. No. Bruce Arena and Bruce Arena's imagination.

28:35Rog:No.

28:36Herc Gomez:Listen, I love guys like Bruce for what they've done for U.S. soccer. And I loved his show with Bob Bradley and Greg Berhalter that they were doing, Rob Stone. I found it very refreshing. But in seeing and hearing his ideas about the game, it's refreshing in terms of the old school American mentality. But I don't think it's refreshing in new ideas and where you think this national team can go.

29:00Rog:God bless. In five years' time, I hope we're saying Michael Bradley in this list. Last one for you. Emma Hayes.

29:06Herc Gomez:Can I be honest? I've been blown away with her punditry. Emma Hayes comes in and she restructures, reinvents the women's national team. There's new faces integrated into the game. There's immediate relevancy. Within 40 days, she's turned the program around and she's winning Olympic gold. There's something to be said about understanding the weight and expectations and executing that. And then I hear her talk about football. I hear talk about the game. And it's so refreshing. And I'm blown away. And I say this in the most respectful way. I apologize. I wasn't aware of your game.

29:45Rog:I've got to say, I also love the way she talks about her love of America. That is where I'll say. But to me, right now, all of this is irrelevant. Everything now depends upon Mauricio Pochettino. Again, his career was magic at Tottenham. then derailed with two, I'd say, very bad choices. PSG at their most political, and then Chelsea at its most political. He was spat out quickly at both. But at Spurs, what he did, building that young culture of confidence and belief. Can he deal with us? I believe he can. But the one thing I'd say in this moment, Herc, is by recommitting, he's got to truly recommit.

30:31Rog:when he first arrived he said he was about to move to the United States and live in Atlanta he never did I don't think he has to I don't care where he lives but it did very much feel like he was overseeing things from afar he's got to attack this role with a passion and an intensity we need Poch to speak with some clarity about why he's staying and what he's building with some detail Now, he has to engage and respect the media. It was actually hard to watch at times the way he both Heisman them and was allowed to Heisman them because there's no, you know, as you said, there's no outrage. No one's really watching.

31:12Rog:I was surprised how little he embraced the vast Spanish language audience. I'll be honest that he's so well primed to speak to. Now, that is something is such an opportunity for U.S. soccer in general. The other element, I'll talk more about this because I think it's very, very important, is to have a serious dual national recruitment strategy. But big picture, this talent overhaul, this is what we need. Tim Ream, gone. Christian Pulisic, Chris Richards, Weston McKinney, Tyler Adams, and we'll be all in their early 30s in 2030. This is a moment in which a men's team can either build, God, I really believe it can, or it can also sink back into the shadows.

31:50Rog:as American football, the popularity surges, but so many fans are actually connecting to the bigger clubs like Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Liverpool than they do to the national team. This is the critical nature at this moment, Herc. It can't just be continuing with the energy and the communication and the vision level that came in that first half cycle.

32:12Herc Gomez:I can't, there needs to be actual growth. Listen, 1994 was up until that moment, the most successful financial World Cup in the history of World Cups and has spawned a domestic soccer league. You know, in 1996, Major League Soccer was born. This has to take it to the next level. This league is now over 30 years of age. These players now are in some major platforms where only four of the 11 starters who started the World Cup actually had clubs. They weren't just employees of the federation. There is seriousness to this team now, but they've not done anything that any generation before them hasn't done.

32:49Herc Gomez:in a home World Cup with this golden generation. So there needs to be more because 2030 will be more difficult. Yes, you'll probably coast through qualifying because of the amount of teams that qualify. Six and probably seven. Probably more. We're probably talking about seven and a half spots if we're being honest. There's going to be an expanded World Cup come 2030. It's going to be in six different countries, three different continents. Who knows what this qualification process will look like? Who knows what kind of bumps you're going to take through it all? And who knows what players are going to emerge and need to emerge because you've mentioned the team Reims.

33:22Herc Gomez:You know, he's going to be 40. You're going to have to phase him out. So you're talking about back line who you may have to phase out two of those players out of the four, a starting goalkeeper that you're not too sure about. You're talking about prime players that you now have serious doubts about what they're going to be like heading into their 30s, both because of injury prone and mental status, where their head's going to be at with this national team. There's a lot of question marks here.

33:49Rog:I do want to touch upon dual national strategy because I think it's really critical. I actually think Poch misunderstood it when he said in the last cycle, this is his quote, we don't need to convince players. A player needs to want to play for the national team. I'm Argentinian. I wanted to play for Argentina. It's not because of a contract. It's not because of possibility to play in Europe. No, I was desperate to defend my badge, my flag. We need to be careful. There's no need to convince a player. as you think there very much is a lot of convincing that's needed. Speaking to the past managers, the convincing, you've seen Jesse Marsh go actively about it in the Canadian job right now.

34:30Rog:Convincing, selling, engaging, making the case. That's what got Flo Baligan here. Argentina is just, it's not a like and a like. Comparing the two is ridiculous. They have so much talent. The players from the very early days dream of playing for Argentina more than they do of playing in a club level. But you look at the likes of Morocco. You look at the likes of even Cape Verde, propelled by dual nationals. Mexico now, a number of the stars at the last World Cup born elsewhere. Savvy recruitment alters the narrative of teams, turns good ones into great ones. We've got the likes of 19-year-old defender, Noah Kai Banks, German mother, American father, playing in the Bundesliga.

35:14Rog:Henry Chase, 22-year-old defender born in Japan to a Japanese mom. American father of Jamaican descent, and more. Many of you listeners will know just an expanded list. We dream of many of these dual nationals, Herc. But the seriousness of which Poch attacks the dual nationals opportunity, I think is going to define this next cycle. It is hard work, the dual national recruitment. It takes selling. It takes relationship building. It takes grind. It will determine everything else in the wake of it. Talent really is the key to this next phase, right?

35:48Herc Gomez:I could not agree with you more. The U.S. Men's National Team does not have the luxury of turning its back to recruitment when it comes to dual nationals. You mentioned Mexico. The world is changing. Mexico had one less player born abroad than the U.S. Men's National Team. And the U.S. Men's National Team had two players that their fathers were U.S. Men's National Team players and they were born in different countries. They had one less player born abroad. The world has changed. France had over 90 players in this 2026 World Cup. There's only 26 players on the roster, right? They did not play for France.

36:19Herc Gomez:Morocco has reinvented itself as a federation on the men's and women's side in all categories because of recruitment. That is part of the globalization of the world. It's not just recruitment. It's a globalization of the world we live in. And you have to embrace that. You really do. And Mauricio Pochettino and US men's national team, it's very romantic to think you don't have to go out and chase these players. They should want to play for you. The United States of America is a soccer country. It's not a U.S. men's national team country, and it's not an MLS country, but it's a soccer country. There are fans who cheer for other national teams in this country, other leagues in this country, other clubs in this country.

37:00Herc Gomez:You need to convert those people. You need to convert these players. You need to recruit.

37:05Rog:I want to close with some quickfire stuff in just a second, but I do want to say someone just this morning sent back to me a tweet that I dispatched into the world November 22nd. Back in 2016, Herc, that was the day after Jurgen Klinsmann was fired. And I tweeted, I think Twitter still had like a very tight number of words you could use because this is like pretty clumsily written. But I wrote, US soccer, appointment we should all be obsessed with is less coach who will be short term, but technical director who shapes future for decades. This was nearly 10 years ago, Herc. And reading it today, it shocks me because it's still true, probably truer than ever.

37:49Herc Gomez:I mean, think about how sad that is, Raj. That was 10 years ago. And you can go back in time before that. It was Sunil Gulati calling the shots. There was no technical director, no sporting director, nobody with a vision. Now, go ahead and look at any given club or national team and look at the amount of people who work within a coaching crew, a technical crew. It's something like 30, 40 people. And they all have specialized roles. This is no different now with a sporting director. You can't be CEO and make sporting decisions. There has to be somebody specialized for this decision. They have to hold accountability with these decisions.

38:33Herc Gomez:You don't have that in US soccer right now. It was like this 10 years ago. And it's like this today. it's like this today. And that's not only sad, that's damning to where you're going to go. If you're leaving business people to start out sporting structure, you're in trouble.

38:51Rog:Well, I mean, I will say this again. We need a vision, like an articulate vision, an intelligent vision, a vision that we can all understand and measure against. By the way, we should welcome that measuring. We should welcome accountability. Accountability, at the end of the day is just a symbol of a rise of people caring. We all want that. You can't pick and choose when you want people to care. This is what pains me the most. When U.S. soccer allows the decision-making to slink back into the shadows, that's when everything feels really small again in this nation because football is bigger and bigger than ever, but the national team can become voluntarily irrelevant in moments.

39:35Rog:We've got to change that. We've got to act big, think big, envision big, but make that vision so clear. But I want to end with some quick fires. You ready for this, Herke? Let's go. Can you name three players that this news, Poch re-signing, is good news for?

39:53Herc Gomez:Yeah, one would be Alex Freeman. I'll start at the back. I think the emergence of Alex Freeman has been incredible. And that's a direct Pochettino find. I made this player and he flourished under my system. The second one would be Malik Tillman. Malik Tillman was one of the best midfielders, not just in the U.S. men's national team, but in this World Cup per 90 minutes played. Not my opinion. Those are statistics. Look at those statistics. He did himself a world of wonder. And then the last one was very close between Sebastian Berhalter. And I think Sebastian Berhalter, what he did, there are a lot of people who didn't like what he did because of the league he played in, but I think he shut those people up.

40:32Herc Gomez:He had himself a very good World Cup, but I'm not going to go with Berhalter. I'm going to go with Foller and Balogun. It was Mauricio Pochettino who made this kid explode in a big way, in a way where he could get a massive transfer this upcoming window. He scores three goals. He's one of the most dangerous players within the realm of CONCACAF. He really took a step forward with Mauricio Pochettino. And you said something interesting earlier about building around a Foller and Balogun. I could not agree more. I could not agree more. Good age, a prime suspect to be around for a while. can play in different ways, regardless if you want to be possession-based or if you want to be transitional or if you want to press, he could do a lot of different things for you and he's got a goal scorer's touch.

41:15Rog:I had the exact same three. Tillman, Balogun, Alex Freeman. I love the Seb Berhalter shout out. I think when you look at that Belgian game, you look who was fighting till the very end. I will never forget just the hustle.

41:29Herc Gomez:Isn't that sad, Raj? That's our silver lining is he looked like he cared. That's what it is.

41:35Rog:I mean, I will not forget that. That was, that was, yeah, it's true. I'm watching him in Middlesbrough this season. I also had on my dance card, Tim Ream. He's coming back. He's never going to leave. Three players, Pochettino re-signing his bad news for.

41:49Herc Gomez:Well, I think the first one is Diego Luna. And Diego Luna has done himself no favors. Goes on this with his friends or these YouTubers and starts talking about switching over to Mexico and then comes in and what you can see him looks kind of out of shape, you know, not really the same Diego Luna, a lot of water under that bridge. That could be maybe too much for Diego Luna to kind of salvage if it is Marisa Pochettino who's there for the long haul 2030. The second one is going to be Eunice Moussa. Eunice Moussa is a kid who I think kind of got the short end of the stick because he did nothing that Christian Pulisic didn't do except he's not Christian Pulisic.

42:32Herc Gomez:during the Gold Cup when he didn't show up. When he didn't show up in the Gold Cup, when he showed up for the summer friendlies. And the team's kind of advanced without him. And he's in a club situation right now where he's going to go back to Milan and it's a crowd of midfields. Who knows what it's going to be like for him? And there's the emergence of Sebastian Burrhalter and even an Aiden Morrison, a Tanner Tessman within that group. I don't think it's good news for Eunice Moussa. And then the third one is the dual national. The dual national. Insert any dual national here because you've already mentioned he doesn't want to go out and recruit dual nationals.

43:02Herc Gomez:Well, you're going to lose out on the Nathaniel Browns. We saw him as a starter for the German national team. You're going to lose out on the players like Noakai Banks, who's still uncommitted, who could potentially be a very good center back and you need a center back right now. You're going to lose out on the players who have an opportunity to choose a different flag, to choose a different national team because you don't want to go through the process because you feel they should already be all in. And maybe there's some romanticism that comes with that, but it's not the world we live in today.

43:31Rog:I also wonder how Matt Freeze is feeling right now. But what do you think it means for Christian Pulisic? 27 years old now. Chouma have taken off the Gold Cup, so he was good and ready for the World Cup proper, and then just 225 minutes across four games for the US. Just one assist, no goals, and then that final agony limping off in the Belgian beatdown after 59 minutes. How does Poch view him?

43:57Herc Gomez:But Poch probably views him as his best player that he has in the program who's untrustworthy when it comes to being on the field physically. And maybe there's some mentality to that as well. And you have to wonder where Christian Pulisic's head's going to be at. Two World Cups. He's already accomplished more than any American has ever accomplished at the club level on the men's side. Part of me thinks that Christian Pulisic is over this. How does Marisa Pochettino approach that? How does he fight for Christian Pulisic? If he fights for him at all, I'm sure there's some fans who are saying, good riddance, be done with them.

44:30Herc Gomez:I don't think that should be the case. I think he's still a very valuable player. But I think this lies more on Christian Pulisic's side than really Mauricio Pochettino's side.

44:37Rog:When you say over this, what's this?

44:40Herc Gomez:I think this is the criticism and sadness he has garnered with the US Men's National Team. There's a certain vibe about the kid that's very John O 'Brien that just wants to be happy.

44:54Rog:John O 'Brien, one of the greatest ever with a ball at his feet and a U.S. men's jersey on. A man who, one of those footballers who needed to be 100 % healthy in his own mind to really dazzle. One of the very few players I've ever heard who when given a start at the World Cup turned around and said, you know, I'm not quite fit. I'm not going to play. I mean, he was both of those things, an incredible footballer. Now I think, is he a therapist? He is.

45:21Herc Gomez:I believe he's some sort of psychologist. now. But you're talking about John O 'Brien, who was a very bright, shiny star who kind of burnt out very quickly and off into the sunset he went and is more folkloric within U.S. soccer circles than anything else. Christian Pulisic is not folkloric. It's not my opinion that he's the best American at the club level that's ever existed in the men's side. Those are facts. It's not my opinion that when he is physically fit for the national team, he's one of the best players, if not the best player they have. Those are also statistics. He's a player that, for whatever reason, cannot stay healthy.

46:01And I don't know how much of this summer, the last two summers, are going to be on his mind

46:06Herc Gomez:moving forward. Because you saw this documentary they put out on the network that has the U.S. Men's National League Games, the us versus them, the play on words, us versus them. It made it seem like it was the media that were going after Christian Pulisic, that it was the media that is going after these players. There seems to be a sense of us versus the world, but that world isn't just the rest of the world in a World Cup. It's everything that encompasses the footballer. And that's where I'm worried for Christian Pulisic. All right, let's pull it together

46:36Rog:with a totally ludicrous game based on how we did at World Cup 2026. Herc, predict what happens in these tournaments.

46:44Herc Gomez:Do we win the Gold Cup? No, because the Gold Cups have not been a tournament that the US Men's Nation has taken seriously in the last like seven or eight editions. So I don't expect them to take it seriously again in this edition. I say no. The Nations League. Yes, but it will not be easy. I think Canada is going to give them a real run. And you have Mexico, obviously, who's always a front runner as well. How far do we get in the theoretical 2028 Cove of America on home turf? Well, further than you did last time. I'll tell you, that's for sure.

47:13Rog:Too soon.

47:14Herc Gomez:I think quarterfinal at minimum has to be the standard. you've got to realize that there are some countries that are South American countries, let alone the Mexicos and the Canadas of the world, that are primed for real blood this go around because they've not been primed South American countries for quite some time. I'm talking about the Colombias. I'm talking about the Uruguays. I'm talking about the Equadors. Those disappointing countries that had a terrible World Cup will be gunning for the likes of Argentina and Brazil.

47:42Rog:2030 World Cup, how far did we get?

47:44Herc Gomez:I'm very interested in seeing what this new generation is about. The Julian Halls, the Mehmedis, you know, the Gozos. You know, we had Xavier Gozo and Vamos and the kid. Like, you want that enthusiasm. You want that hunger. With the talent level, it goes with it. I'm very interested in what this team's going to look like. I really am. But you're asking me to gauge right now, Raj, a team that's going to be in a generational change. And generational change brings heartache. I think there's going to be a lot of lumps in the corner or in the process for Marisa Pochettino. And this is where this trust of process should come in.

48:18Herc Gomez:When you're taking these lumps, not when you got a primed and oiled vehicle that should be winning races. Here is where you trust the process. And it's going to be very difficult for me to trust this process. But I think this young generation has an opportunity to surprise. And a surprise for me would be quarterfinals or better in a 2030 World Cup. Amen. With Russell Crowe on the sideline for the big one.

48:43Rog:You're beautiful, man. I've really enjoyed listening to you to Better Days Ahead. Beautiful. Better days, my man. Care, Rach.