Emotional Intelligence: Jim Burns Reveals the Hidden Advantage in Leadership

0:00Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to an in-person Mick Unplugged. I'm in my hometown, in the upstate, and I am here with a gentleman who, when you think of the upstate of South Carolina, you think about development, you think about community outreach. It is this guy, Jim Burns. You're listening to Mick Unplugged, hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and stories spark transformation. Mick takes you beyond the motivation and into meaning, helping you discover your because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush, and trust me, you're in the right place. Let's get unplugged.

0:42You can't laugh, that's the truth. I bet you're too kind. No, no, no, no, man. It takes a village, my friend. It does take a village, for sure. Jerm, I know, if I remember correctly, you moved here from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. You were 9 '10"? Yep, yep, exactly. That was actually a little town right outside of Pittsburgh called Latrobe. I've heard of Latrobe. There's some real ballplayers. Or St. Vincent College where the Steelers training camp is. And Arnie Palmer was there. And Mr. Rogers. Lots of the little beer called Rolling Rock. Old 33. There. So small fact. I didn't know it was Latrobe.

1:23But my youngest son who we just talked about. Yeah. The South University of Miami. All folks went to St. Vincent to play football. Really? He chose Beloit College and only won two games a four-year. And St. Vincent won, like, the D3 championship three years in a row. And I said, Cameron, are you sure that this was really the right decision for you? Life choices, right? And choices. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, Steelers, big time. Yep. I know that I raised my kids right because they're all big Steelers fans, too. All right. And the episode is over. That was the beginning and the end. Oh, because us Patriot fans.

2:01Well, they did good, too. They got six Super Bowls as well. Yeah. Yeah. Ours are more recent, but that's fine. We're living in the past. I hear you. I hear you. No, man. So, Jim, I want to get into a lot, but you know I ask all my guests the very first question is about their recourse, that thing that's deeper than your why. I call it like your true purpose. Yeah. And it changes over time. So, if I were to say, Jim, today, what is your recourse? Why do you keep doing what you do? and and like like we we talked a little bit about four it's got it's kind of interesting just to go back and think about it and so since we met and we started talking and and doing this i was like wow it really is a is a great question we did this game with kids right like why why why why do i do the cause and then and then you know if you're you don't think about it as a parent because i said so and so uh so great great um i love the the question and everything i i narrowed it down to, you know, it's, it's kind of a, a bunch of, bunch of answers, but to try to get together, you know, my, my, my causes are, um, family, friends, faith.

3:07I call them a three F's. Yeah. Okay. I have someone knows this school. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Uh, my, my three F's. And then, um, I, you know, I'm, I'm all about leadership and, and every, I think, uh, John Maxwell said, everything rises and falls on leadership. And then I'm also all about growth. Growth, you want your companies to grow. You want to have personal growth. You want to see the organizations that you're a part of grow, whether philanthropic or the community or whatever. And so I created a company that is called CLLC. It was Strategy and Execution Excellence. And I still have the company.

3:50And now I'm working with Harkness Development. I'm the chief operating officer for Harkness. But C is still an entity. And the reason that I started that was because it's strategy and execution excellence. And what I saw out there through my career was that some people were really good at strategy and really good at visioning, but they didn't execute. They didn't get into the details. They weren't the type of person that wants to be collaborative, which on any big project you have to do. So they set the vision, they set strategy, and they might be fantastic at that. But when you bring that together, because you can't just be good at strategy or it's just a plan on the shelf.

4:36You can't just be good at execution because then you execute things that don't matter. And so, and I think that's part of it. That's one of my why is it's like be able to see the bigger picture to envision what's not there and what it can become and then bring that to fruition. Wow. I love that. And you're exactly right. I actually had this conversation with my COO. She's going to yell at me when she hears it. is um don't get a choke i'm already a choice it's okay it's okay i don't believe that people that are highly organized and plan amazing are great executors right right it's almost like and that's not a bad thing because i feed people that are great at execution miss the small details but But for whatever reason, a lot of times we put people in place and we expect them to do it all.

5:35And we expect them to do the organizing, the planning and the execution. And usually when somebody is great, again, at the organizing, the planning, they fail to execute to standard because they put so much time and energy making sure that if all the things could happen, we can solve or we will be protected. Right. I'm about to get your take on that, too. I see leaders fail a lot when they think you've got to be multi-dimensional. I think as one of the things in personal growth, you've got to be self-aware. You've got to know as a leader what you're good at, what your gifts are. Listen, I think if you don't know your strengths and your weaknesses, then you're going to create problems.

6:24So you can be a great manager of people and have great people skills, but you don't have the financial acumen. So what I look for in leaders of the companies, you have to supplement with really smart people in those areas that you know aren't your strength. Okay, so how do you recognize that? And that goes straight back to personal self-awareness. I can do certain things, but I might not be as good as somebody else. And when it's a big enough piece of the organization, you better make sure you hire strong people in all those other positions. Again, something else we agree on. It's another thing.

7:11I literally just got finished speaking to an organization about that where I said, you're spending way too much time trying to grow weaknesses in people. Right. Why not let your people accentuate where they're very strong and continue to be strong and then supplement where they're weak with another person that's strong where they're weak. and keep building your organization that way. Yeah. Because as a growing thing, right? You go back, you grow. There's a growing thing. You need strong people throughout. And if you're the right leader, you're going to grow more people. You're going to put them in positions where they're leading in certain areas so that you know if you get hit by a bus, my organization, my entity is going to continue on.

8:02Exactly. And you use the word grow or growth several times. And I know you've said this, and it was one of the things that when I moved here, when I moved back home, when I was researching Jim Burns, you had a statement that said, if you're not growing, you're dying. Yeah. Talk about the power of that growth, especially in this modern world, not just for leaders or entrepreneurs, but people in general, that growth, not just the mindset, but the actual application of growth. I think, again, are you, most people are like, oh, I don't know how to do this or I don't know how to do that. And they, they try to grow in those areas.

8:43And my, I don't do that. Grow in the areas where you have interests, where you, where you, where you have strengths, but you got to keep growing because you never, you never stop growing. You never stop reading. I'm a big, I've got like a whole reading list of things, including Mick unplugged. And so we've got to continue to have the mindset that there's, I think the more that I find out about, it points out how little I know. Right. And so if you, in everything that I've been a part of has been how do we grow? Yeah. How are we going to grow in economic development? And then there's a board chair for the local economic development cork, right?

9:29We have to dispel the we're growing too fast and we're growing to what we we're we've got to grow in a proper course. Right. And do the things that allow us to keep the personality and keep all the advantages of being in this area are. But we've got to continue to grow because those you can just look back in history at all the examples where we said, OK, no more. And then those areas just start to decline and people start to move out and there's no jobs to supplement. And that's just a that's just a ticket down to the the downward spiral. And so from from everything from your communities to your person.

10:07What are you doing? I plan for right. Be intentional about your growth. Yes. And where you're going to grow and how you're going to do it and say, you know, by this time next year, I want to be here by this. And have specific measurements that you or or try. Some of it is, you know, is harder to do. It's harder to measure. Yeah. But if you say, I think I heard one time you said in one of your things is like this with this 1 % better every day doesn't work because how do you measure that? How do you measure it? And I agree with that 100%, right? So you got to have measurable. They got to be measurable to grow or you don't, right?

10:48When you hit those goals, you feel empowered and you feel like I did this and it energizes me, at least me, it energizes me more. So how do we do that and keep energizing yourself to go to that next level? I love that, dude. I love that. So again, one of the best and greatest leaders that I know is Jim Bryce. When you're looking at building your teams, what are some of the values that you look in for people? because I have to assume that you're a lot like me and I've never asked you this question before. But for me, I hire people. And then the role will become the role. But if you're not the person fit, you will never leave the role fit.

11:31So I don't care what your accolades are. I don't care what your resume says. If you're not the right person as a human being, it's never going to work. So tell us a little bit about that. I think there's two categories. When I'm looking at hiring different people, I think there's two categories. There's very specific categories. Like an HR person, I don't need a scientist to do that. You know, I need somebody that's got that emotional intelligence and that's motivational and everything like that. So you look for specific things. Accounting is another role. Like you got to know the books. You got to know the rules.

12:03You got to do that so that you keep everybody outside of trouble. In the development business that we've grown here, yeah, I like people that have a breadth of knowledge. I like, you know, more of the Swiss army knife kind of folks that I can put in any situation and they'll figure it out. They always have me to come back to as a resource. We were talking about this, you know, we're doing annual reviews. And I think my job as a CEO here is to make sure that everybody has the tools they need to be successful. They have the skill sets to be successful in the projects that they get assigned. and then they know that they can always get to me.

12:46It might not be at a normal time. You keep a busy schedule, but they can always get to me. And if there's roadblocks, I'm going to help them overcome those things. So I think there are specific instances where you're looking for really targeted areas of expertise. Yeah, but for the most part, those are the more administrative roles that you've got to have within an organization of some size. And then for most of what we're doing here, man, you know, I need great project managers. And that's like the whole spectrum. That's not, that's not, hey, they're really good at this or this. This is, I can take the, I can give them a project no matter what it is.

13:26And they go and knock it out. And I'm extremely blessed to have some great people that work with me, that have worked with me in different organizations and everything. And that's your success as a leader depends on how well you build up everybody else. Totally agree. And you just brought up one of my favorite terms, which is something it's actually a pillar of all of the companies that I have, which is emotional intelligence. We lead, we respect, and we interact with emotional intelligence. But in 2025, and we're heading into 2026, I still see a lot of leaders. I see a lot of individuals talk the emotional intelligence game.

14:12But then when it's time to apply it in a real-world scenario, they forget all those principles. Like my favorite one is self-regulation. you get that tense moment and you just answer right away or you send that email off. And then when you meet with me, it's like, no use those to pause, like five, 10 seconds, right? Or get up and walk around and then come back to it when you're calm. Why are leaders, one, not leading with emotional intelligence? And what are some things, what are some tips for you that leaders can do now to make sure that they're implementing emotional intelligence into what to do.

14:50Why are people doing it? I think it goes back to, do you know who you are, number one, and what do you control, right? I'm a strong believer, you know, whether it's a stoic virtue, it's a lot of different things, but as a leader, what can I control? And I can control what I think, what I say, and what I do. I can't control anybody else, what they think, say, or do. and so all I can do is be the example of what I expect from that and so I think um there there is it's way too easy to sit behind the computer and you get a bad email or something that upsets you and you're ready to fire something off and I think that's what you got to know I control what I say what I do okay what you said is upsetting to me but I'm not going to react immediately and I'm like I have a big, big decisions or something that really is upsetting, I say, well, we're not going to respond.

15:53We're asleep on it. We're going to come back tomorrow and we're going to have regulated and gotten through all the emotions, right? You can't act on emotion.

16:04Whenever you act in anger, you're not going to come at this. It's not going to be the best decision that you can be. a lot of it. Yeah. With, you know, the world champion, six-time world champion Patriots, we call controlling the controllables. I think Bill Belichick was the first to ever say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Could be. Could be. Could be. No, but you're spot on. So for that person that's listening, that's watching right now, that's like, yeah, I hear what Jim and Maker's saying, but man, it's tough. What's some advice you get? um i i think just that whenever something upsets you that much and before you act on something um take that breath no take that time um and just know that that like let that be a part that's ingrained in you um to be a leader people want in in the face of you know you look at um the Churchill, right?

17:05In the face of what was almost imminent, he couldn't assure them that they were going to get through the winters and the things like that of World War II, but he just deserved victory. I can't promise you that you're going to be victorious. I can't promise you. But if we prepare and we set our minds and say, we're going to be victorious, we're going to deserve it. I'm not going to tell you we're going to be victorious, but we're going to deserve it. And I think that attitude, just having that attitude, I'm going to deserve, you know, you deserve what your actions say for you. Right. And so what you think, say and do.

17:44And so I think that's, you know, take the step back and, you know, go back to the philosophies and the religious thing. Act as if it was you in that place, how would you want to be responded to? Yeah, totally agree. And for me, again, I teach emotional intelligence. I'm a student of emotional intelligence, but I'm always working on it myself to you guys. So we talk about the five pillars, self-awareness, self-regulation, motivation, social skills, and empathy. Jim, I struggle with empathy. Yeah, I'm a diehard entrepreneur. I'm a serial entrepreneur. I'm the person that, hey, put it on my shoulders.

18:25It's going to get done. And I drive hard myself, not my team, but I drive hard. I struggle and I can admit this. I'm human. I struggle to understand people that don't have that same mentality. Oh, hey, I got to drive. I got to go make it happen. But I also understand that everybody doesn't have that. So I have to make sure that I work on empathy every day. And a lot of times people think empathy and sympathy are the same thing. no empathy means I hear you and I understand right I don't I don't feel sorry for you but I hear you and I understand it if you were to look at emotional intelligence where do you work at all what's what's I don't want to say a weakness but what's the area for you to grow within those formulas I think it's without a doubt is that that that pulse that you know I think that's some regulation and um Everybody wants to be quick to react.

19:27And because, because like you said, we're trying to get it done. And when somebody presents you with bad news or something that's gone wrong, then are you going to take the time to figure out why it went wrong and how you can help that individual overcott? You know, you're the leader and your example sets the tone for the entire organization. and if if you're very reactive especially lashing out then then they're going to see that and say that's the example that i have so what i'm what i'm always preaching myself is like okay you know all right i might have to go about part of my morning routine is meditation all right man i'm going to go back okay i gotta clear my mind about you because because if your mind is clogged with negative thoughts with with retaliation with whatever it is that you think i have to react to this way you're not making good decisions that's not your mess self yeah and so that is that is without a doubt like i the the empathy thing i i could i could relate 100 with you man uh but it's uh the empathy is is one of those things where again on that side go back i'm gonna put myself in their shoes and and how do i how do i do this yeah acting in a calm calm but decisive manner when you need to be decisive is is uh is i think the key to resolving those conflicts i like it i like it so you just talked about part of your morning routine yeah what else is your morning routine oh man uh this this i'm not i think my wife tolerates i'm not sure she's you know encourages it but but but um uh but i we you know we uh we get up And, you know, the first thing I got to do, you know, I'll drink my protein shake or whatever.

21:12Get something, get something, get my body stirred up a little bit. But then I sit down and meditate. I sit down, I got my daily Calm app and I sit there with my good friend Tamara Leavitt. And she leads me through that 10 or 11 minutes every day. And it just, I really think that centers me, that gives me that sense of calm. You know, that peace of mind. And then I go immediately from that into my devotionals or reading some kind of philosophical thing. I'm reading meditation, Marcus Aurelius' meditations right now. But once you clear your mind, then fill it with something good. Yeah, fill it with something inspirational.

21:55I'm reading the Bible. I'm doing those meditations. I'm doing Marcus's meditation or several different books that I'll read a little bit from each time. and then you're feeling good. And Klan, we make sure that we got everything we need for the day, that I'm prepared for everything in the day, and then you're all, every once in a while, I'll mix in some exercise in there, but it depends on how much time. Like when you wake up, do you have that half an hour for some stretching or some doing something like that? But that's generally it. You get ready and you go tackle the dead. You feel like you're ready to go.

22:35See, I meet that. I need, when I'm home and not traveling, I have a long BT. But I travel enough so much that I make sure I have a few moments to myself every morning. I make sure my phone is away and I can gather my thoughts and try to plan what I'm doing. But I need to get a strict point. And I think Arthur Brooks, you know Arthur Brooks, Arthur Brooks just came out with something about his morning routine. And he's like the six things that he does for an awesome morning or whatever. And I'm not, I haven't gotten to all six of it. Right. But, um, I think it is, and it is, um, a never start, you know, never start the day by picking up your phone.

23:18Great. Right. Right. Leave the phone down, do your thing so that you do have your, your time, you know? And, and I think, um, just that little bit of tranquility, that little bit of, um, uh, very, that this brings, brings that, you know, and we're all, we're all in this quest for I have peace of mind as we go through our days and nights and everything. So how do you grab that at the very, very start of your day? I think it's super important to me. And it's hard, but it's hard. It is when you're in your routine, when you're not where you usually are and your routine and all that, you're, you're really kind of, it's throwing me off.

23:55So what's the best thing you could do there too? I'm telling you, like we're family. So I'll say this, but I've been traveling so much as you know. Yeah. Last week, man, I woke up and had no idea where I was. Literally, I get out of the hotel. I walk out of my room. That's traveling too much, man. I had to look to see what room number I was in because I was going to go charge breakfast to the room, right? I was like, I don't know the room number I'm in. Right. Wait a second. Where am I? Right. Literally no idea where I was. So, yeah, I got to slow down. Yeah. But we get caught up in that, right?

24:29It's hard. And even if you're in your same house and everything like that, the kid might come down or something happened or you got to get to work early or something. And I think it's just, you know, I read something that, you know, if you trade your last hour at night before you go to bed with the first hour in the morning. In other words, if you usually go to bed at 11, go to bed at 10. And if you usually get up at 6, get up at 5. And that you're going to feel much more better. you're going to feel better about what you accomplish from five to six than you do from 10 to 11. Hmm. I'm going to try that.

25:07Yeah. I haven't done it yet. Cause I'm not a five o 'clock in the morning person, but you know, I could be six. Yeah. I'm going to try it. I'll say I'm up. Okay. Good. So you talked about family rope, right? Like one of the, one of the three F's. Yeah. Talk to me about how you balance all the things that you do from entrepreneur, being CEO, being involved in the community like you are. How do you balance that to make sure that you're still a husband and you're still a dad and you're still a son and uncle and all that? Well, let me let me first of all say I got it wrong for a long time, you know, and you have to you have to.

25:51of a, um, again, you get that self-awareness and I don't know what age it comes to us, but you know, thank, thank, thank goodness it came to me. And, um, so, um, I think, I don't, I think the term work-life balance is a myth. It's totally brilliant. So integration is integration. And it raises, how do you, you know, if you, if you don't love your work, if you're not enthusiastic about doing your job and going to work, then, then you're missing something. You're missing something in your life. He says there's an innate part in all of us that says you want to be a part of being fulfilled is doing something that you believe is meaningful to society.

26:32Yeah. Right. And so I want to, while I want to teach that to my children. So I just got married in November. So coming up on one year between the both of us. Nagy, I was completely locked out between the two of us. We have six kids. So we have a full house, you know, and five of them are out. One's a senior, and we're enjoying every bit of the last year, of the last son that we got. But I think, you know, you want to set an example, but then sometimes you just have to be there. I had two sons that were very zinging to basketball, and I think I might have missed of their entire career. I might have missed doing our Hansel games, right?

27:19You're going to, you're going to be that coached, um, many, many of those games, um, and everything. And so it's something that's, well, those, those memories, they're, they're, they'll just continuously be cherished and probably more cherished. And, but, um, it's just, it's a, it's a myth that you, you can't, you can do everything. absolutely so so as i said got it wrong got to prioritize and and priority number one is is family right and and then then you you've got everything else that falls after that and so you want to show the example of what what um hard and smart work can accomplish and you also want to show them that you know all all the kids i don't know that uh when they need me, I'm going to be.

28:07I love that, dude. And you're right. I had to learn it too. I mean, for me, well, my kids never said this, right? I feel like I have three of the best kids on planet. I'm going to argue with you about that. Well, what I'll see is I bought that. I bought that. Hey, kid, we'll just do this. If Uncle Jim gives you a better business gift and dad does, then there you go. But what I didn't ever want my kids to say, and it took a moment for me to realize this was that I never wanted them to say that you're so present and available for your clients, for your team, for your peers, for prospects. I never wanted them to feel like anything else I could be as present for for them.

28:54And so I had to work on making sure I was present. And a lot of times present doesn't mean physically. I mean, my kids are all out of college. I have one left in college, but picking up the phone, even though they don't talk on the phone, but if it made sure I do that, sending them a text message, checking in on them, just reminding them of little things and them reminding me of little things. So for everybody that's watching or listening, especially for the leaders and entrepreneurs where you're putting in 60, 70, 80 hours a week, remember to be present, right? And again, present always isn't physical.

29:32you can emotionally be present for someone. You can spiritually be present for someone. So for me, I had to learn that and take a moment and say, you've got to be present. And I think, yeah, I really like that. I think the, not only is being present mean a lot of different things, but I just remember like you, sometimes you need to be there when they need you to be there. And then there's times when they're like, okay, I'll need you. you know, honey. Yeah. You know, that's good. And, and some of the greatest, you know, thoughts that you just evoked was, um, my daughter is in law school and she's doing great.