Faith Over Fear: Governor Wes Moore on Service, Patriotism & Moral Leadership

0:00I'm probably the most improbable governor in this country. I'm a kid who watched my dad die in front of me when I was three years old. I had handcuffs on my wrist by the time I was 11. I joined the Army at 17 years old. I graduated from a two-year college, and I now serve as the 63rd governor of the state of Maryland. But the reason that I'm here is because there were people who saw me there before I saw myself.

0:27ladies and gentlemen welcome back to i usually say another exciting episode of mick unplugged but today i'm going out there and i'm being honest and i'm saying this is the most important conversation that i've ever had you know almost 300 episodes 300 guests but the man that i'm talking to today has inspired me. Someone who's the same age as me, has roots to where I live. You all know him as the best governor in these United States, but I know him as one of the best leaders that our country's ever seen. A leader of men, a leader of humans, and just a leader of the great state of Maryland. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm honored to bring to you Governor Wes Moore.

1:13Governor Moore, how you doing today, brother? Nick, listen, I cannot tell you how much, how excited I am right now, how much I appreciate you. And listen, I think one of the things I'm really inspired by you by is there's, it's one thing to be successful. It's another thing to be relevant. You've been successful. I mean, you have been able to hit the tops in so many different spaces and, you know, in business. And I mean, like you, you know, sold two businesses. I mean, that's just like, this is wild, but it's the relevancy. It's the then turning it and doing things that you can say, listen, we can both lift as we climb and making sure that we are not leaving people behind, which is, which is our mantra here in the state of Maryland.

2:00So this is, this is an honor for me, man. It really is. So thank you. I'm the honor one. I look at it like you allow the blueprint for people like me to do what we do. You inspire so many people. And a lot of what I do, man, it's because I've seen how you do it. And I said in the opener, we're the same age. So to see someone who's so impactful, man, at like all the things that you do, you just inspire me to push too, bro. Thank you, man. Thank you. Yes, sir. The fact that we're the same age means I got work to do. No, I'm trying to catch up. I'm trying to catch up. But speaking of that, man, like I always ask my guests this question about what's your because.

2:41That thing that's deeper than your why. I call it your true passion. And for me to ask you this question is so surreal. To understand your because, that deeper than your why. Like, why does Governor Moore continue to do all the dynamic things in the state of Maryland and in all the communities that you're a part of, man? Like, what's your because? Why do you keep doing the things that you do? I'd say it's because service saved me. Because I have people who, I mean, like, listen, and I tell people that I'm probably the most improbable governor in this country. you know I'm I'm a kid who watched my dad die in front of me when I was three years old because he didn't get the health care that he needed my mother did not get her first job that gave her benefits after my dad died until I was 14 years old that I had handcuffs on my wrist by the time I was 11 because we grew up in a community that was over policed and we knew it I joined the army at 17 years old I graduated from a two year college and I now serve as the 63rd governor of the state of Maryland.

3:58And I think to myself where it's like, but the reason that I'm here is because there were people who saw me there before I saw myself. Like there are people who were willing to serve and people who were, whether it was coaches and ministers and teachers and aunties and uncles. And like, you know, people who just were willing to sacrifice for the hope of me. And I take that very seriously where, you know, I think about the work that we do in Maryland. I think about the fact we made Maryland the first state in the country that has a service year option for all of our high school graduates. I think about this work because I know that service will save us because service saved me.

4:43Wow. That's why you are who you are, man. Like that right there, you talk about service saving you. And, you know, I know the story of you trying to leave, right. Trying to leave service for a little bit. Like, like talk to, talk about that full circle moment of, you know, the importance of service to you now. Yeah, it is true because I was sent to a military school when I was 13 years old. People are always like, why did you choose to go to military school? I'm like, to be clear, no one chooses to go to military school. We all get chose to go to military school. In those first days, I was very clear.

5:32I don't want to be here. I'm not going to be here. In the first, I think, four days, I ran away five times from the school. And I would just keep on trying to run away. And finally, they found me in the middle of the woods because they drew me a map on how to get to the train station. But the map was fake. The map literally took me the middle of nowhere. They just enjoyed watching a flashlight make circles. And they were getting a laugh out of it. And when I got a chance to talk to my mom, she told me she was like, and this is like, this is, you know, make it swell. This was like 1 o 'clock in the morning.

6:02Yeah. And so I called my mom. And technically, I wasn't allowed to use the phone. But they said, you're allowed to make one phone call. and I called her and I was like, mom, I'm ready to go home. Can you come get me? All that kind of stuff. And she says to me, she's like, too many people have sacrificed in order for you to be there. And you have to understand it's not all about you. And I'd be lying if I said anything changed that night because it didn't. But, but eventually I began to understand what she was talking about. And I got close to my plea brothers, the people who I was there with, and they gave me a little bit of rank and a little bit of responsibility.

6:36So it actually felt good to be in charge of something. And, and by the end of the first year, I said, if it's okay, I'd like to sit tight. And I ended up, you know, staying there throughout my high school career. But it was, it was definitely something where it didn't happen overnight. And this is what I always tell people like nothing worthwhile comes easy to you. The stuff that comes easy is usually never worth it. The only things that are worth it is stuff you actually have to work for. And, um, but it was one of the most important decisions that I made when I actually chose to actually put in the work.

7:07Amazing, bro. Amazing. You know, I have to give you some kudos and some flowers right here. I'm going to try not to get emotional about it because you mean this much to me. And I call this segment the unplugged truth. And this is my unplugged truth for you right here. This year we celebrate 250 years of American independence, right? I watched on 4th of July the top three greatest speeches I've ever heard in my life. Wow. And it was Governor Westmore. I'm, for whatever reason, I'm not even going to lie and say I was seeking it out. But, you know, like I'm flipping through and I'm on C-SPAN and I see you announce that you're about to do this speech.

8:01And I have so many notes here on that speech because I'm with family. You know, we're in the South, got the grill, got the smoker going, maybe got some spades going on over here in the corner. But everybody that I'm with, and it's like 25, 30 people. we all paused everything that we were doing because it was one of the most dynamic speeches in the history of speeches that I've ever heard, man. And so you talked about the work of patriotism and there's so many quotes that I have, but one of the things that stood out to me was you said that faith is in the foundation of patriotism. And I was so moved for like 15, 20 minutes, man.

8:44Like, when you were finished, I wish I would have recorded it for you. Everybody that was in the house stood up clapping. I had uncles that had tears in their eyes, man. Like, bro, that was one of the greatest speeches I ever heard in my life. And I'd love to just, one, I'm giving you your flowers for that. But talk to us about the work of patriotism, man, and like how all of us are a part of it. I'm not even going to give the speech away, but like just talk to us about that, man. I can't tell you enough how much that means to me, man. Sincerely, thank you. And, you know, when I first decided to do it, I wanted to address the fact that I felt like there was a larger bastardization of patriotism that was taking place and how there was also this, people were trying to use patriotism and nationalism like they were the same, like they're interchangeable, and they're not.

9:41because patriotism doesn't mean lying about your history. Patriotism means being willing to be part of the future of what is the greatest experiment in world history. And that's not saying the experiment was always perfect because it hasn't been always perfect. But what it is saying is, is that every single generation, we have an opportunity to make this a more perfect union, to be better than the generation before, to provide more rights, more freedoms, and protect our values in a way that even maybe historically wasn't done to those who came before us because they were willing to fight for us.

10:20And I think about that in context where when we talk about the difference between my grandfather gave me a Bible right before I left for Afghanistan, who was actually my grandfather, who was born actually in South Carolina. And in that Bible where he just wrote four words, He said, have faith, not fear in the front of that Bible. And I, I think about that in context where faith really is the foundation of patriotism, a faith that we can be better than the day before a faith that we all have an integral, integral role in terms of making us better. Fear is the foundation of nationalism. and nationalism is is is not allegiance to a values or a cause nationalism is allegiance to a person or a group and fear is what drives nationalism and the thing that i ask every day of myself of marylanders and all of us is every day let's choose faith let's not choose fear let's choose faith that we can be a an extension of this remarkable journey that this country has been on and to say that we hope to achieve what even those who wrote those beautiful documents at first knew they would never see for themselves because they knew that while the document was beautiful they as human beings were flawed and the hope that every generation we can get a little better.

11:56And that I think is our responsibility. And if we choose faith instead of fear, I think we've actually got a chance of accomplishing it. Bro, you just got me emotional as you were just talking because it just brought me back to that moment on 4th of July. One, I could listen to you all day, but two, to break it down in that way, man, like we talk about everything that you are, The pillars of what your core values are to me are always rooted in what we've talked about in the last couple of minutes, right? Service, right? Faith. Understanding the history that brought us here. And then the legacy that you're going to leave forward.

12:42and when I heard that speech and you you know you opened it so well you talked about the room and and you know a couple of stories below where you were standing what the history was and everything that brought it there man and like you put it together so well and then you talked about what patriotism means and what's required of us and I was so moved and it's like full circle for me right now because we're talking about it so I get to hear the depth of how that speech came together. What's required of us, man? Like what can all of us do? And it doesn't matter where you live. It doesn't matter race, ethnicity, none of that.

13:21Like there's a requirement of all of us to be better patriots. And I think a lot of times with media, they blow things much more out of proportion than they actually are. And I get everyone has a job, but you just talked about that fear. And I think fear is what everybody sells, right? Like fear is what sells. We don't pay attention to solutions and the faith to see things completed the right way, man. Like what can we all do now as humans in this amazing country that we live in to enhance patriotism? Listen, well, first you just hit the nail on the head on it. And I think if everyone understands and embraces that, people will have a better understanding of how to lean forward on this because you're right.

14:08I mean, like if you listen to folks or if you allow yourself to get inside the rabbit holes and kind of the vortex and stuff, you would think we're just like irreparably broken. You would think no one talks to each other. You think no one communicates. You would think that the world is just horrific. And I think it takes a real deal of discipline to understand that the the world is bigger than what is directly in front of you, particularly if the only thing that's directly in front of you is a screen. That we live in a big and a beautiful and a bright world, and we all have a place in it, right?

14:42And I think the thing that I want everyone to do, and I hope for everyone to do, is I understand there's a lot of people who are very skeptical right now. And I get it. I totally understand it. because I think that there have been a lot of promises broken, which only fuels the skepticism that people have. But when we know our history and we know that, yes, this time has been complicated and yes, our history has been complicated. But the truth is there's only been two things that have gotten us out of difficult moments in our history. And that's been God's grace and moral leadership. That's it.

15:21Every single time, God's grace, moral leadership. And we pray for God's grace right now, but also we seek moral leadership. Because I actually think that if people know our history and can lean on it, and if people are willing to find the thing that makes their heart beat a little bit faster and do something about it, then I think we're actually going to be in a much better place. And we will make sure that we're bringing everybody along on this journey and not just some of us, which is actually what's going to make it sustainable. Amen to that. Amen to that, brother. I want to give you some more shout outs and some more kudos because you've done so much for the state of Maryland.

16:09And I call this segment like hot take. So these are just going to be my hot takes. You don't have to say anything. This is just me. And I know all of your, your brethren and sisters that are governors and leaders of all the great states of this nation do amazing jobs. Yeah. Doggone it. Governor Moore, what you've done with Maryland, bro, is wild. And again, I've got stats here. Unemployment. historic lows, violent crimes, all time low, increased minimum wage. People are buying homes in the state of Maryland, dude. Like, I don't think people understand the significance of that. Because you got to know Maryland.

16:55You got to know the history. And I'm not even, a lot of people think of Baltimore when they think of, but I'm talking about all of Maryland. People are buying homes. People are prosperous. Dude, you've done so much in the time that you started that's so unreal. To get to the numbers, when we talk about violent crimes, right? Like, to get to the numbers that you are, when Marilyn was, what, top two or three? I say top two or three, but ranked one, two or three in violent crimes and now in the 40s? Like, that's insane in a good way. When we talk about the things you do for young people, when we talk about just the vibrance that Maryland has now, a lot is owed to you, man.

17:46No, well, honestly, a lot is owed to us. I'm blessed that I am one of six and a half million people who have decided that we're going to really do something that isn't done quite often in this country. We're actually going to work together. You know, there's nothing that we have accomplished by a person or a group or a jurisdiction or whatever. It's like, it's because we've actually chosen to build a table that's big enough for everybody. I mean, the fact that Maryland has amongst the fastest drop in violent crime anywhere in America, the homicide rate in the state of Maryland is down nearly 60 % since we came on board.

18:26But I'm very clear. Do you know why? It's because we chose to work with the mayor. chose to work with local law enforcement, chose to work with community violence interrupters, chose to work with our partners across the board. And that's what's helped to drive, you know, these type of results. You know, the fact that we have been able to, you know, been able to quadruple the amount of apprenticeship and trade slots that we have, it's been the largest mass pardon in the history of the United States of America, where I pardoned over 175 ,000 misdemeanor cannabis convictions, because you cannot talk about the benefits of legalization if you don't address the consequences of criminalization.

19:05We made Maryland the first state in the country that has a service year option for all of our high school graduates. Like we're doing it together. And that's the thing I love so much about this moment is if we think that there is going to be a silver bullet to fix these problems or a single thing that we can do, then I know that we're just sorely mistaking. But I think the reason that we're really proud in Maryland, it's not just what we've done, it's how we've done it. And that is what I think is scalable. Matt, so I'm going to go out on the record and say this. If it didn't get cold in Maryland sometimes, I think I can make Maryland my home, man.

19:49Like, I love where it is knowing where it came from. And again, this isn't to talk negative about anyone that was in place before you. Like, that's not the story here. The story is the changes that has happened. Right. We talk about being able to walk outside at night. Right. We talk about, you know, even little things like the airports. Right. Like, like be feeling good flying into BWI or flying into wherever because, hey, it feels safe now. Right. Like you've done so much with the help. You talked about, you know, local mayors and local city councilmen and women and like all of that matters.

20:35We talk about servicemen and women. We talk about first responders. And when I am in the state of Maryland and I have a huge passion for our servicemen and women and our first responders, right, to hear them talk about the change is mind blowing. To hear a police chief talk about how proud they are to say that they're the chief of this city or this town and that they really would cower that if they were in another state. dude like you guys have done it you guys have done it together together yes together yeah so here's another hot take and you've been talking about it a lot recently man like energy and AI and I've heard you talk about you know your mom calling and say hey I went from$100 almost$500 a month in energy and we're seeing it here in the Carolinas too man like Like, what's it going to take?

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22:39Wes Moore:Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. What's it going to take for this to get better, for us to be able to tolerate it a little bit? Like from the words of Governor Moore, because as you've eloquently said lots of times, governor can't do it. Right. Right. What is it going to take? I mean, you're you're you're right where this is a national phenomenon. There's no state that is is is not dealing with this issue. And a lot of these things, unfortunately, they're being caused by national forces.

23:25Right. I mean, it's not lost on anybody that in the past, you know, we're talking about in the past year and a half, we've now seen energy prices increase by over 17 % in my state alone. We're watching gas prices that have absolutely jumped in just the past, you know, in the past 10 weeks because of wars. We're just choosing to fight overseas that I'm still not sure. I do not understand what we're doing. um but it's it's so this is a national phenomenon um i think the things that we have to be able to do um is frankly being able to think about some of the things that we should have been thinking about for years and i know years before i became the governor is how do we take an all the above approach when it comes to our energy um i'm a big believer that we need to have solar and wind and battery storage and all these other things, nuclear, you know, all these energy frameworks, because these are things that can both, we can strengthen the grid.

24:28It's the cheapest, the cleanest, and the fastest way of being able to add more energy assets. Because part of the problem is that you're getting a greater demand, more people, more people using more energy. But if the supply stays flat, then you're going to watch prices rise. And so we need more supply when it comes to our energy supports. And we need to be very specific about our individual jurisdictions. I say that for this reason, the type of energy that we can benefit from, for example, in the state of Maryland, we can benefit from things like offshore wind. And that's just simply because of our geography, right?

25:03That we actually have the assets to do that. Iowa can't benefit from offshore wind. And that's okay. So then let's come up with ways that these individual states can have the things that can benefit them most and stop looking at this like it's some kind of ideology. And this is where I think the politics gets in the way of all this, that if we're actually able to invest in the things that in our own individual states and why the governors matter in this, where we can actually speed up our process, add more assets and do more to be able to provide a strengthening of a grid and get more projects greenlit, then we would be able to address a lot of these price increases.

25:44that we're just seeing all around the country right now, which are just unacceptable. Yeah, totally unacceptable. And, you know, one of the companies that I own is an AI company in the insurance space. And I've had to deal with data centers and understanding more about data centers now than I ever did before. Yeah. What can we do there? Like, at some point, I'm not going to say something needs to be done because I do think things are being done. I just don't know if they're being done in leaps and bounds to keep up with the demand and how it's going to go at some point. What are your thoughts on data centers and in particular with AI?

26:24Well, definitely more needs to be done to be able to have guardrails around data centers. And I think about it where when I first became the governor, we had 40 to 50 data centers in Maryland already. So this is not a new phenomenon. But the thing that we have seen, though, is that for the people that came before us, they were basically letting the data centers write their rules and determine where they wanted to be and how much energy they wanted to use and what type of impact they wanted to use. And it's like, hold on, y 'all. We cannot do this. And you cannot write the rules. We have to be the one to write the rules and we have to be the one to be able to work with local jurisdictions.

27:04And so, you know, for example, what we did in the state of Maryland, you know, I basically said for any of these platforms, you know, even ones that were coming on board before I got here, I said, there's a couple guidelines that I have on this. That one, you have to be able to bring your own energy and pay for any other improvements that you had. you are not going to put that on the back of taxpayers in a way that was being done rapidly and randomly before. The second thing is you have to be able to hire local workers and you have to be able to work with local leaders and local community groups to be able to make sure that they want this in the first place.

27:45That I know there are certain jurisdictions that want data centers, and I get that. And I know there's certain jurisdictions that do not, but you cannot force them to be able to accept this if the local jurisdiction says we do not want that in our jurisdiction. And just because a local jurisdiction wants it, there still need to be guidelines that the state has to check off on. And the third thing is we have to be able to make sure you're meeting environmental concerns and their environmental guidelines. And in Maryland, we have high environmental guidelines on this. And it is important because we've got one planet.

28:16And so let's just make sure we can do this stuff sustainably. I am very bullish on what I think AI can bring to our society, where I think AI can be revolutionary when it comes to healthcare. I think it'd be revolutionary for public safety. I think it'd be revolutionary for housing policies and permitting. So I am very bullish on what AI can do for us. But the answer can't be, then let's just move forward by all means necessary. There have to be guardrails and guidelines that are laid out that, frankly, historically and before were not being laid out. And so that's why I think we ended up in the problem that we find ourselves in now, where I believe strongly that we've got to be able to move and act aggressively on this.

29:03You have a huge supporter in that, man. Like if there's anything I can do to help with that message, you just call me and I'm there because I agree with you. Having an AI company in the insurance space, which is very regulated anyway, right? Like I think a lot of people miss the intelligence part of AI. Right. They focus on the artificial, but they're missing the actual intelligence piece. And to me, and I know most people and entities have good, if not great, amazing intentions. But to your point, the guardrails have to be there. They have. And that starts with infrastructure, right? That starts with modeling.