Gary Linnen: Unlocking the Power of Peer Leaders

0:00Mick:In the 80s, one of the most memorable lines of a Whitney Houston song said, I believe the children are our future. Well, today's guest took that literally and is impacting the lives of so many youths. We're going to talk to Gary Linnen about Peer Forward, the nonprofit he created that's helping young kids get into college, but not how you think. This episode, we're going to talk about why your peers are more influential than your parents. We're going to talk about the fundamentals that all kids need to know about college, and we're going to go deep into what Pierre Ford is doing and the mission that Gary Lennon is fulfilling.

0:38Mick:Ladies and gentlemen, this is Mr. Gary Lennon. Gary, how are you doing today, brother? Good. I'm good. I'm good. How are you? Dude, I am great now that I'm talking to you. Gary, you know, when I was growing up, there was a song, and the first line said, I believe the children are our future, right? I think you heard that song too. But Gary, you're one of the few people that took action as actually doing something, man. So I wanted to applaud you for doing the action because a lot of times we talk. And a lot of times, you know, we'll support, we'll donate, we'll do some things. But as you know, it takes a lot more than just pats on the backs to do the things that you're doing.

1:16Mick:So I applaud you, brother. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you hit on the nose, right? It said a lot of people do a great job of talking. The question is, can you walk? you know are you willing to do um and i'm just you know i'm humble and just grateful that i get the chance to be around just like some phenomenal phenomenal folks that you know people just tend to overlook no totally agree man and i want to start by asking you the question of when did you know that that was something that you were supposed to do you know great question you know um i'll start with so an interesting journey so i'm me getting here right and so i'm from spanish Harlem, grew up, you know, I'm of a certain age, but, you know, I grew up during the cracking AIDS epidemic, if you will.

2:04Right. And so as an individual growing up on welfare, low income, like college was never at the goal. It was about, let's just get out of high school. Right. And if you could do that, you've accomplished, you know, a lot. But, you know, interesting enough, I was always in a talented and gifted program. So the Oliver program found me in junior high school. And it was like, hey, you're smart. So are some of your friends. I remember getting called in office. And I was like, why? Am I in trouble? They're like, no, you're actually smart. I was like, oh, forgot that part. Right. So got chosen and they gave me an option.

2:40And the option was to either go to a private boarding school or a private day school. And in New York City during that time, like that wasn't really something that we've ever thought about. I was like an independent school? Sure. But I knew that I needed to leave. And so I chose a boarding school. And against my mother's wishes, against the family wishes, it was like, what do you mean? You're going away. But I knew that during that time, I needed to get out because if I didn't get out, I wasn't going to get anywhere. And so that was my way of like, yes, finally there's an opportunity. So I go to a private boarding school, Westtown School, shout out to them outside of Philadelphia.

3:18And if you can imagine, it's a private Quaker school. So coming from the city and going to a Quaker school, I'm like, okay, turn to the light. I was like, oh my goodness, what are you talking about? But that changed my entire life because it gave me the opportunity then to go to Cornell, which was never on my list, right? I was able to meet lifelong friends that I still talk to today. And throughout that journey, what I learned is that there were individuals in my community that were just as smart as me, if not smarter. And for some reason, every time I came home, they were still on the corner.

3:55They were still on the block. They weren't doing anything. And I'm like, hold on, I'm given a chance. Why not then? And that for me, like, I like internally bothered me because, you know, I look at my sister, I look at my, I have three sisters and I look at how they struggled and I'm But I got out and I just don't like that that notion of you get out and you don't give back. And so that's how I got into this work. You know, I graduated from Cornell, went into PR for a little bit. Didn't like that. I used to work because it was for me, it was inauthentic to me. It was business to business and PR for technology companies.

4:33And then I started working with the Princeton Review. too. And as you could imagine, like that's helping, you know, the elite to be able to, you know, get helping everyone to be able to get into college. But it wasn't fulfilling for me. And lo and behold, this position opens up, you know, during that time we were known as College Summit. And I just happened to be searching and it was like, hey, you know, we're starting the New York office and we would love to, you know, we're building a team. And it was in that moment, I was like, I got to try this out. Like I, at this pretentiousness or not even pretentious, I mean, it's a viable career, but you know, people paying 20,$30 ,000 for a tutor and it was not, you know, filling my cup.

5:12It wasn't giving me joy.

5:13Mick:Yeah. The moment I came over to college summit and I went to the first workshop, I was like, this is a doggone cult. Like I gotta go because everyone was hugging each other. And I wasn't used to that. Like, don't touch me. but they were hugging each other because they knew we knew that we were doing the heart's work and that for me is what you know what was fulfilling and why i've been here now 18 years i love it so that's the journey of how you got there and why you started it now i'm going to ask you the question i usually ask all my guests what's your because what's that thing that's deeper than your why like why do you continue to do what you do what's that purpose for you What's your because?

5:53In the the years of when we started the New York office, like the organization was founded beforehand by our three co-founders, but I took over afterwards.

6:06There are two gentlemen, Michael Ferron and Adon Penny that I met while in New York. My because is because of the relationships I built with them and the brotherhood that I built. And I was like, hold on, you can actually have a brotherhood with folks and they don't look at you any differently. And for them to say you are like a father figure to me like that, I could not measure because I didn't have kids during that time. And so I do it because individuals need somebody that looks like me, that talks like me to be in their corner when they are when they are at the lowest points. You'll be able to say you can actually do that.

6:40So that's my because it's fulfilling every day to have. And I'm looking at that one's a lawyer. The other one works for, you know, one of the big four. And I'm like, wow, I think I kind of did something with that.

6:54Mick:Yeah, that's awesome, man. That is so awesome. So for the viewers and listeners, now let's talk about Peer Forward. Like talk about what it is that you all do. Yeah, thank you. So, Peer Forward, formerly known as College Summit, started in 1996, a little bit before then from our predecessors here in D.C. And what we learned is that we were actually just helping people with their college applications at first. They were bright young folks at a community center. And it was like, hey, you should go to college. Like, I went to college. You should go. And what we found is they all applied to college and they all went.

7:30And it was like, this is cool. Let's run a workshop. And the workshop was focused on helping them with their essays, helping them get together a college list, you know, from like some very reputable individuals to support them that they never had access to. But then also tapping into their why. Like, why should you show up? Why is it important for you to know that you're worthy? So those are the three elements. I can help you with the transactional stuff, but I need you to believe in yourself as well. And that Oedipus, when we started, started running like wildfire. What we found is that while we were helping those students, they were going back and helping their friends.

8:09it was like that wasn't our intention our intention was to help you but everything that they learned they went back and told somebody else um and then we we got into this idea like hold on friends helping friends that's interesting it happens all the time how can we actually put that in a bottle and expand it because what we do know is that a 17 year old is more inclined to listen to another 17 year old any of us that have kids family members young folks you can talk to your blue in the face but the moment their friend validates it it's going yeah you know and so we was like why not take that because that's that's what we're considering positive peer pressure leverage that to make them uh you know do positive choices you know so that it's not just the adult saying go to school it's a friend saying i'm going so that means you're going with me let's go yeah and that was the birth of college summit now peer forward.

9:03You know, we've been around being able to impact close to 700 ,000 students since our inception. We are, you know, in 12 states and in Bermuda. So just excited to be able to have that international threshold. But, you know, in the states alone, you know, New York, Philly, the DMV area of Florida, California, Texas, Detroit, Colorado, Hawaii, all the different areas where we know that every single child that we have been able to support, they want to help their friends. They want to be able to succeed. And the way in which that we do that is by tapping into the power of peer pressure, positive peer pressure to be able to support folks.

9:46Mick:I love that, brother. And one of the things that you do is you match the students with what, three programs, three schools, three universities, at least three? Yeah, so they get a list of 10, but they're required to apply to at least three. And the reason why is because research shows that if you have more options, as we know, you're more inclined to go. We are also, they're required to fill out their financial aid forms early. You'd be surprised, particularly for students in low income communities, they are typically the last one to fill out their financial aid forms when they're the individuals that should be first in line, not last in line.

10:24And so we were very intentional about getting them to do this stuff early so they can maximize the benefits of going to college. The third piece that they're required to do is about connecting academics to college and career. And so we also acknowledge that as a ninth grader, you may not know what you want to do. But having a 12th grader say, hey, if you were 10 years from now, if I saw you, what would you be doing? And if they said, I want to be a detective, they're like, great, no problem. Or I want to be a doctor, fine. But the 12th grade is telling them, if you wanna be a doctor, you may wanna come to class.

11:01Like, how about you get out the hallway in order to be?

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11:43Mick:Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions already banking fee free. Head to chime.com slash Mick. That is chime.com slash M I C K. It only takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for my pay and chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cash back for chime prime only. No minimum balance required. For more information on APY rates, my pay, spot me and travel perks, go to chime.com slash disclosures. And it's not the guidance counselor saying it.

12:12The guidance counselor is always going to say it, but it's coming from. I'm a friend, which makes it relevant to them. And that has by far been the most remarkable way of being able to, you know, increase college-going culture in our school systems.

12:25Mick:And I love that. And here's why I love it. So, you know, back in the, I'll say my decade, back in the 90s when I graduated high school. Yes. I knew I was going to the University of North Carolina because I was a Tar Heel, right? Like Carolina blue was my favorite color. Michael Jordan went there. Right. I didn't necessarily know what programs they had. I didn't know what schools they had within there. I just knew that I was going there. So I applied, got a scholarship. I'm there. Luckily, what I enjoyed, they had. But I didn't know that. Right. Like in the 90s and the decades before that, there wasn't the Internet where you could literally go see and do matching.

13:07Mick:you didn't really go visit schools. Like you didn't have folks from schools coming out the career center unless it was a local school. Right. Like, so I grew up in South Carolina, University of North Carolina, wasn't coming to my high school to tell me about the University of North Carolina. So I applaud the fact that, yeah, the kids can look online, but like you're actually helping provide that research as well, too, which I think is the most critical to make sure that the school aligns with you, it's never going to be perfect. But you have better capability of finding that alignment now than you've ever had.

13:41And that's why, you know, the type of student that we, they're called peer leaders, both in the high school and the college space. The type of student that we look for is the most influential student in the building. And the reason why is because people, when they walk, people watch them. When they talk, people listen. It could be the class clown. It could be the person that's cutting class. It can, you know, it's that mid-tier student because that allows there to be a belief system for other folks in that school to say, if Johnny can do it, and I know Johnny been playing around all day, then I can as well.

14:17But the cool thing is that Johnny's sharing information and it's right to your point. It's about fit, right? It's not just about, hey, I'm a student. I need to go to college. I'm just going to apply to the school up the street. They're asking the questions like, what do you like? And what don't you like? Do you want to stay on campus? Do you don't? Do you know how to do your own laundry or don't you? Do you have requirements or commitments within your family that won't allow you to leave? Because what we found is we had a lot of students going into college, but they were not graduating for a college because it wasn't the right fit.

14:54No one asked them the right questions. They just went ahead and said, I'll apply to the school. But there was no yearning to want to stay. And that's why we started up here for an college program. So historically, we've been on the high school side, but our folks were coming back to us and say, hey, whatever you did for me in high school, my friends need help in college because they're leaving at large rates. Can we do something? That came from our alumni. It wasn't even us. We didn't think about it in that space. So our alumni came back and then we created a college component so that it's the same model, friends helping friends to be able to stay in college, minimalize the amount of debt and get a degree that's viable for the economic future.

15:36Mick:Gary, you're the perfect person to have this conversation with. I want to talk to the viewers and listeners about something that I'm noticing because my oldest son coaches football. right and the last three years he's been at the college level and it every day during enrollment for the football team he calls me he's like dad it happened again dad it happened again Gary here's what's going on children kids youth that are going to college day one they don't understand the things that they need to survive like having their id and what their id numbers are their social security numbers their their mother's maiden name like i'm gonna say this things that i took for granted right things that you know i talked to my kids about it didn't have to be a long conversation it was just hey these things you got to make sure you know how to do little things like that forget laundry right forget financial literacy all that we're going to talk about that too but just the basics of you got to know some things and day one you're going to need to know those things like literally my son Jay is listening to this right now he will tell you how many times someone will drive or fly in out of state and literally have to go back because they can't register they can't get their dorm room because they don't know how important it is to bring an ID.

17:04Mick:They don't understand, you know, how to fill out an application. Like talk to us, talk to the viewers and listeners, to the parents, to the students about just the fundamentals that you've got to have to survive. And, you know, it's funny you mentioned, I'll tell you this quick story that it's a generational thing. I swear, I don't get it. My nephew just applied to college and which was great, but he used my email and my number. So I'm getting all these calls from colleges as if I went, I was like, what do you mean? Like the rudimentary, the basics, like use your number, use your ID. My name is not Nazair.

17:45Why are they calling me looking for you? Right. And I think that's the challenge that we're seeing across the board, particularly with just young folks about understanding the basic needs. And that's where it's important for us as an organization, school systems, and friends to have that type of checklist to like, hey, in order for you to go to college, here's the five things you need to understand, right? And it's back to understanding, you know, what are the different academic offices that are there? What's the personal information that you need to make sure that you have? What are the emergency contact information that you need to have?

18:20Because you're getting there and, you know, what happens if you, you know, stomp your toe or whatever the case may be. They just don't know. And it's sad, but we're seeing that across the country. And so I think as parents, whether you went to college and or not, we understand that there's basic things that our individuals, our young folks need to have. And we have an opportunity to make sure they have them, regardless if they go to college or not. It's like when you're turning at age of 17, 18, you need to know your social security number. So how do we educate folks to like, hey, these are the five things as you go into adulthood that everybody should have.

18:56And unfortunately, in the age of the Internet, information goes too quick and it's not landing well with our young folks. Yeah.

19:04Mick:You just brought up something, too, about email. And my youngest son, who's in grad school at the University of Miami, only has an email account because he needed one for the University of Miami. But I'm starting to see colleges now on applications, and I'd love to get your viewpoint of this. They're asking more about what's your preferred social handle so that they can communicate with you that way. And at first I was like, why are colleges doing that? But then I realized I'm just getting older and I'm turning into that stubborn old grandparent. Right. There's like you can't be doing that. But I was like, OK, I guess it does make sense because this generation, I mean, I have team members, employees that.

19:48Mick:Yeah, they're going to check social before they check an email. Like, talk us through what you're seeing that type of shift in colleges and universities. We are. Like, I graduated in 1996 from high school. And it's the same. Emails. Oh, there we go. Email was important to us. It's a generational thing that we're finding. And so social media is always going to be what we've learned, the easiest way to get to them because it's the way in which that they communicate. We try our best to say, get on email, get on email. But the reality is that we have to pay attention to the market. And that means looking at social media and using that.

20:25You have to diversify the way, and we're doing this, diversify the way in which that you're communicating with folks. But that is, it's not going anywhere. Secondly, though, the challenge with that is that our young folks use social media for both public and private use. And so how do we educate folks to say, you know, colleges want your handle. Why? Because they're looking at like, what type of person are you? And if you, you know, if you have an account that, you know, can have individuals question the type of person that you are, then that's probably not the best handle that you want to use, because it's another way of screening folks.

21:04That's just the reality of where they are. And I think our young folks don't know that. They're like, oh, yeah, follow me on some random name. That's one. Secondly, we're trying to educate them on the names that you use. Yes. Because, you know, it can't be, you know, sexy something, you know, and you're giving that to an admissions officer. So part of our education is like, great. If they're going to ask for a handle, make sure it's a formal one where you're not posting, you know, what you're doing, you know, after dark.

21:38Mick:absolutely and and remember things you did two and three years ago are still there so you should probably do some type of audit on your social media as well too yes uh you know that it's funny I had had I had to change mine years ago I was uh sitting on a board and I had my handle from college my entire life and you know the moment you become a public figure they're like hey remember what you did at Cornell in 1999? I was like, whoa. Yeah, let me go ahead and get a new handle. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So Gary, man, what are some of the metrics or KPIs that you as the CEO look at to determine the success or the areas that we need to improve with peer forward?

22:27Yeah, so I'm going to break it up into two sides. So for the high school side, the major KPI is like, am I getting individuals into college? And so we're looking at college enrollment data. And what we're finding is that for our peer leaders, the individuals that are directly, go directly through our program, we, there's a temperature, a larger 10 % increase. So 60 % of them are actually enrolling in college versus 50%, which is the national average. And so we're outpacing the national average, but there's still work to be done in that. So that's one major KPI. The second one that we're looking at, particularly for participants, is around FAFSA completion.

23:05And so we know that you can apply to all your schools, but if you don't have money to be able to get in and sustain it, then you're not going to go. And so what we found is that schools that partner with us, they have a 26 % higher FAFSA completion rate versus others, which unlocks about$100 million more in financial aid for students and or school partners with us on that side. So those are the two main ones that we look at, enrollment data, as well as financial aid completion, if you will. On the college side, we're looking at retention. So what we do know is that generally speaking, individuals are graduating about 26, it's about 20 % of individuals, excuse me, graduate by the age of 24 in six years.