Kier Gaines: Why Healing Starts With the Truth You Keep Avoiding

0:00The attention economy concerns me, and I think we're getting more desperate for attention. But I think the more we look for attention and notoriety, the less we hold on to some semblance of integrity and morality. And ultimately, I don't know where our humanness goes after that.

0:24Mick:Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today we are in for it. Like we're going to be talking to a guest that's a prominent voice in health and wellness, diving deep into personal development, insightful, he's impactful, and he's done something that he doesn't know yet that we're going to talk about it. This actually changed my life. We are talking to none other than the amazing Mr. Kier Gaines. Kier, how you doing today, brother? I'm good, Mick. What's good with you, brother? Thank you for having me on, man. Man, thank you for being here. I'm honored.

0:57Mick:There's some things we're going to talk about, but I have to give you your flowers, bro. Like, I'm all about that, especially when we talk about mental health, which I know is the space you dominate in. We're going to talk about your amazing journey. But, bro, I've been following you for a while. And you said something that you were going through that made me pause. And I was like, I'm implementing this in my life right now. All right. You said that you told someone they were hurting your feeling. Yeah, man. And when you said that, bro, every ounce of pride and ego that I had, I was able to step to the side because I understood the power of that.

1:42Mick:And so I just want to thank you for giving me that power as a man, as a black man, to be able to let somebody know, hey, that just hurt my feelings. I love you for that, brother. Hey, man, I love the fact that you picked up on that. You were able to do something with it. It's such a hard thing to admit, especially as a man and especially, especially as a black man, because there is this motif of being impenetrable that I think gets assigned to us. And it's unfair, man. It's unfair because you're still a person. You're still a human. But when you put that motif on for so long, you start to believe that it's true.

2:23and after a while you don't acknowledge your own feelings. And then there's this other part of it too, Mick, where when you admit to somebody that they hurt your feelings, now they got the power to do whatever with that they want. Whatever they want. They can say, man, put up your feelings. Just continue to steamroll you. Right. You know, they can listen. They can see you as weak and just avoid any type of conflict with you after that. It's really a mark of bravery to be able to admit something like that. It's still hard for me to admit. So, man, I love that, bro. I love that so much that that was able to help you.

2:57Mick:I'm glad that you gave me the power to do that. And I know that there are people that are watching that are listening right now. I'm letting you know it's okay to let someone or someones, plural, know that they hurt your feelings because feelings are real. Oh, yeah. And that's what Kier taught me, man. Like the emotions that we have, the feelings that we have, they're all real. And a lot of times we keep that bottled in and it makes it worse and worse and worse. And then we put ourselves in darker places because we don't give ourselves the authority to communicate back to others. And so, again, I applaud you for that, bro.

3:37Nah, right on, man. I think the authority piece is the perfect characterization of what that is. It's giving yourself permission. And for me, just the way I grew up, the hardest part of giving myself that authority is I always confuse someone who has hurt feelings with someone who's soft or weak. It's like, oh, no, I was I would still beat you up. Right. Right. Right. No, that's not what this is. It's the acknowledgement of what's going on inside of me. And I think just being a man is so much about what you can control in your external universe, what you can manipulate for financial and economic gain and how you can be seen, how you can be loved and respected.

4:18But got to love and respect yourself and norm people on how to love and respect you. Hey, bro, I ain't like when you did that. You don't have to always say it that way. You hurt my feelings. And for those that don't know, I share that with my wife. She wasn't my wife at the time. She was my girlfriend. And I'm like, hey, the way you're talking to me is hurting my feelings, which is counterintuitive to the way that a lot of us are culturalized, man. So thank you, man. I appreciate that. I'm glad I was able to do something for you, brother.

4:44Mick:Absolutely, man. Absolutely. So, Kier, man, I start every episode by asking my guests a very specific question. And all the accomplishments in life that you've had and the things that you do that we see publicly, but a lot of things that you do that we don't see, man. You are a monster of inspiration. You are a powerhouse when it comes to mental wellness and you really give back and help. And so my question to you is what I ask everybody. What's your because? That thing that's deeper than your why, right? Like Simon Sinek taught us to start with why. Awesome. But I think that as you continue to answer that question and go deeper, what usually happens is you say, oh, this is my why because X, Y, and Z.

5:35Mick:And I care about what you say after you say the word because. So if I were to say, Kiera Gaines, man, like all the things that you do, the continuation of giving back and pouring in and trying to make this universe better. What's your because? What's your purpose today, brother? Because why not? because why not? I think that I realized very early that I'm a pretty good translator where I can take things that are pretty complicated and I can put it at eye level so that it's digestible for folks. Why not? Why not have a better understanding so that you have a chance of a better relationship? Why not have a better understanding of where your feelings work so that you can anticipate them before they get there and that you can manage them once they're on top of you and then that you can maintain some sense of emotional stability once they're gone.

6:30So you're not just beating yourself up for what you didn't say in an argument. Why not? Why not? Why not have the opportunity to know yourself better as you change throughout time and you go through grief and you go through experiences and you go through hurt, you go through happiness. I don't understand why not.

6:46Mick:Yeah. I love that, dude. I love that. And when did you realize, when did you first sit down and say, hey, I want to share with the world and go deeper? Because I've heard you talk a lot about depth, right? Like a lot of times, these are the words of Mick and Mick only. I think with AI now, everybody can sound really good on a subject. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you can write yourself a good script. But they're not going deep into it. And like, that's where I can find out who's real and who's not. When did you know that mental wellness was going to be a space that you were going deep into? That's a good question, Mick.

7:30I feel like when I learned how important it was in my own life and I learned, you know, you have a, like when you're in a college class or when you're in any type of training and you walk in and you have an understanding of whatever subject you're about to go into. I know what I'm talking about. And then the more that instructor talks, the more you realize, oh, I was on level one of 50. I thought I knew everything. But there's a science to the science to the science that I don't understand yet. And I think as I started to accumulate life, you know, like I said, my girlfriend at the time, we found out we were pregnant.

8:14She's my wife now, but this was seven, eight years ago. I started trying to figure out what it is I wanted to do with my life. I tried to better understand who I was and how I worked and why I did the things I did. And the more I would come to these understandings, the more I realized it was still so much more to go. And I realized that when we spread the problem wide and we talk about it in a very wide way, but we don't talk about it deeply, we don't get anything done. We just feel good about discussing it. And that didn't feel complete to me. It didn't feel fulfilling. So I started just like how you don't ask the why, you ask the because.

8:51I started saying, and then what? Well, you need to be aware of these things that you think and feel. Okay. And then what? Well, once you're aware of these things you think and feel, you have to start being able to try to determine how they affect you. Okay, and then what? Well, once you determine how they affect you, you got to determine how they affect the people around you. Okay, and then what? And when you keep asking, and then what? If you're not only drilling deeper to get to the bottom of the problem, but you're also casting a wide net of your own understanding. so that you're not just moving in a way that satisfies your most surface level urges, you know, the desire to be better, desire to be loved, seen, and respected.

9:34But you can walk into a feeling of self-love, into a feeling of self-respect. You can not just say, hey, man, I got these people-pleasing tendencies. You can be honest. You can have self-honesty, which I write about in my book. in the self-honesty says, hey, I'm afraid that people will abandon me if I don't allow them to just, you know, do the thing uninterrupted. And then you ask, okay, and then what? What happens when they abandon you? And it's just, maybe it's just me and my curiosity for life, bro, but I'm about solutions. I see the problem. What are we gonna do about it, man? And that's what kindled me to start on this journey.

10:14Mick:Hey, so... You talk about the book and we're just going to go there now. So before I knew you were writing a book, been a huge fan of you. And if people would have asked me, you know, tell me about Kier. Tell me about what you love about him, what you like about him. I would have said this right here. Kier makes me think about the most uncomfortable truths. And so I call the segment of the show, I actually call the unplugged truth.

10:48Mick:based on me talking about you. So I'm breaking news right now. So the second segment of my show, I always call The Unplugged Truth. And I got it from you because you made me think about uncomfortable truths, right? Like the things we don't want to tell ourselves or accept about ourselves. That's right. And so then now let's talk about this book. It all starts when you do. To me, it's the most uncomfortable unplugged truth ever, ever, ever, ever stated because, and we're going to go into the book, but just the title, It All Starts When You Do, just opens up so much internal uncomfortableness, bro.

11:26Mick:Damn right. We have to answer that question. Yeah. Are we going to start? Are we going to start? How are we going to start and when are we going to start? For sure. Yeah. Let me do a better job of being a book person and move the book into frame. But it's, yeah, an uncomfortable truth. One of my uncomfortable truths is when I'm really focused, I'm going to forget stuff. So I'm going to forget to move my book in the frame. And instead of just killing myself over it and just being, oh, man, I'm so stupid. I'm so dumb. Say, hey, how can we do this differently next time? You try to give myself some grace.

12:05Some people have an uncomfortable truth of not admitting when they're overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed. You can't say that. Why? Because you feel like it is a scathing indictment on your capability. If you're overwhelmed, maybe you ain't got the capacity because you're too weak or you're not deserving. Nah, it's not about my capacity. It's too much going on. It's too much for one human to handle. You know, in our family, sometimes people who have these behaviors that aren't healthy and aren't adaptive, you know, they'll say rude stuff or inflammatory or hurtful things to you. And they just say, oh, that's that's just the way I am.

12:40And one of the uncomfortable truths is it's too late for me to change. No, it's not. Define change. You don't have to massively change all the time. You don't have to change who you are. Sometimes you just change a few things that you do. Let that be the sample test and see what happens after that. So in my mind and with the clients that I see in therapy, one of the more reoccurring observations that I have of folks is that the biggest breakthrough that you need is oftentimes on the other side of one of your most difficult challenges. And those difficult challenges are usually framed in an uncomfortable truth that you do not want to confront.

13:22You're avoiding it. And we got a lot of avoidant language that makes us okay with avoidance. And that's cool until it's not. But the only way to go through it, Mick, is to go through it, bro. That's the only way. You can go around it, but it's still going to be there. And I don't like the boogeyman chasing me down. I don't like it. You ever heard of this thing? My daughter is nine, and there's this tail of a snail. It's like you take some type of deal and a turtle or snail follows you for the rest of your life. And if it touches you, it's like poison or something. And you're like, oh, I'll just let the turtle follow me for life.

13:59But you, because it's slow. You wouldn't think there's ever going to catch you. But you have something chasing you for the rest of your life. You never know a moment of peace. And that's how I feel about uncomfortable truths to get left on the table.

14:12Mick:Dude, I love that. And that, like, we're going to talk to the audience. We're going to talk to the people that are listening, that are watching, because I know personally there's somebody on the other end that's like, that sounds great. I love it conceptually. How do I get started? How do I get started with no longer aborting? How do I get started accepting that, yeah, it really does start when I do. How do I take that first step to put hands on that wall to really start pushing and maneuvering? So I'm going to give you the floor, brother, because this is your world. This is your domain. You're the expert light.

14:53Mick:There's a person right now that needs this key. No problem. Let's start with two light loads. I used to be a personal trainer. So you always start with the easy joints first. Let's start with some jumping jacks. Two things that you can immediately do or immediately pay attention to. One is the amount of awareness you have toward those things. So being aware that the fact that you put things off is starting to affect the way that you obtain your goals or your loyalty towards certain people is starting to affect your ability to grow. Your own willingness to put yourself out there has maybe hampered your mobility in the job market.

15:39Maybe you're not where you want to be. Maybe your inability to make the right decision has pigeonholed you into a life that does not feel good on your skin. Some people just can blame it on everything. Or, you know, the universe didn't work out or it just wasn't time or, you know, it just wasn't meant to be. I think it's the awareness of, no, I made that mistake. Like, no, I didn't try hard enough. No, I didn't do the best that I could. It's the awareness. Why, knowing that that awareness is not going to feel good because the next thing you're going to need on top of that is the mechanism to get yourself out of a tailspin, which is a whole nother conversation.

16:19But first, it's awareness when we're talking about starting. And the other thing that you can do right now, well, you know what? I'm sorry. Let me say one more piece about awareness. Awareness is also not just allowing the thing to exist and you just kind of make a mental note of it. Call it out. Call it out loud. I'm procrastinating again. I'm supposed to do that. I'm supposed to do this work two hours ago. And I'm procrastinating because I do not want to do it. I have to, but I do not want to do it. It's telling the truth of the situation, even though it doesn't feel good to say. But I see you.

16:49I see you procrastination. You can't hide from me. You're right there. And I'm calling you out. Calling you out loud verbally. It's not just living in my head. I'm saying it out loud. That's the first thing you can do to start. The second thing you can do is start to become curious. Curiosity is such an amazing characteristic to hold because not only does it allow you to see something difficult, it really kindles you to think about the why. So you start moving around it. And when you get really curious and when your curiosity turns internal, like introspective, we call that self-interrogation of automatic thoughts.

17:24so it's interrogating the first thing you think the first thing you think you just usually allow it to shoot from the hip like a western field just bang nah nah nah nah that's just my first thought that's the rough draft you don't get to get met to the world you don't get you don't get introduced to the world as the rough draft yeah i wonder why i think that i wonder what narrative is attached to that when do i first remember starting to think this way who else in my life thinks this way, who influences me. Interrogating your automatic thoughts and being aware of the thoughts that you have are two really good starting points to get some inertia and to get some momentum so that you can start moving in the direction that you want to move to, not just being stagnant in the ways that your life has either trained or conditioned you to be.

18:15Mick:That's why you're here, brother. I promise you somebody needed that, man. And I'm going to tell you. So this is me getting personal on how you helped me. Let's get personal, Mick. So my uncomfortable truth moment, you helped me overcome and you didn't even realize it, right? Like I've seen and followed you forever. Thank you, man. I realize, and I know that there are a lot of people out there, especially if you're an entrepreneur, if you have a business, if you do any type of consulting, and I'd be curious to get your part or your take on this too. You helped me understand that as much good as I wanted to do in the world, I can't do everything for free.

18:57Mick:And here's what I mean. It was real easy for me to say, oh yeah, I'll help you with that. And it's my business, right? So if I've got a business that teaches emotional intelligence, if I've got businesses that develop AI, like if you were a friend or a buddy, I'd be like, yeah, I'll help you with that. I'll do that. I won't charge you. But it would eat at me because the same amount of time and energy and effort that I was giving a client that was paying me$50 ,000 or$100 ,000, I'm giving my buddies, friends, people I liked, I do it for free. And I know people are like, Nick, that sounds weird.

19:42Mick:You want to charge for everything you do. But when I tell you the energy key that goes into doing the same thing, I started feeling awkward of, well, how can I charge someone X, but then I do the same thing for someone for free? And mentally it was eating at me of, and here's what you helped me overcome. How do I tell a friend, no, I won't do it for free. You can pay like everyone else pays and get the best of everything that I do. And it really sucked to tell someone no. Like it really, really sucked to tell someone no. Because my heart, the heart that I have is I never want to leave anyone. If I make it to the top, I want everybody to come to the top with me.

20:30Mick:But everybody's not willing to do that work. And it made me understand or it made me believe and start to see not that purposely I was getting used. I'm not saying it that way. but people understood that I probably was going to say yes. Oh, they knew that dynamic. Yeah, of course. And you helped me with that uncomfortable truth of, hey, Mick, can't be nice to everybody. And that was really hard. And people may seem like, yeah, that's an easy switch to turn on and turn off. But when you are me and the heart that I had, like, it was tough, bro. But now I can promise you I've overcome that. And people that know me now are like, oh, I'm not going to Mick unless I'm ready to go to Mick and I'm willing to invest in myself to be the better version.

21:20That's right, because you normed them. You know something interesting that you said, and I'm not trying to therapize you, but you said you can't be nice to everyone. In my mind, allowing friends to get services from you, and if you're an entrepreneur, you understand this, it ain't personal. Allowing friends to get services from you that you pay for, that's not niceness to me necessarily. I think there is an element of kindness to it, but when it becomes hurtful to you and your business, I don't know what word to put around that, but being firm is not the opposite of being nice.

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23:57Mick:Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. And I think that's a tough thing, especially when you got a big heart. I got a big heart too, man. And I had to learn to be more firm with people because folks ask, hey, can you come speak here? Can you come do this? And it's different. It's not like I'm building something that takes me 25 years to build. And then it's a lot of like that obvious time consuming work.

24:32It feels like I'm just going to go do a speech or yeah, sure. I can go talk to your school. I can talk to your nonprofit. But what happens is my currency is time now. So I was spreading myself very thin. And now every second that I spend out of the house, out of the house is time away from my family. It's time away from my wife. It's time away from my hobbies. It's time away from my peace. and it's and me saying no to that opportunity isn't me not being nice it's me being protective of the things that i am assigned to protect and my business is the thing that i'm assigned to protect and if i'm doing 45 random free speaking events when i have this big one that they because you know when they start paying you make they want you to you gotta show up bro yes yeah you gotta show up you gotta show out you have to perform and deliver and it's hard to do that when your bandwidth is low.

25:22So I'm glad you did that. And one of the things I did to overcome that is when my friends have things, I got a friend who's a professional photographer, but as soon as we call, I talk money first. Hey, bro, send me a quote. Yep. Send me a quote of how much you're going to charge me for this because I believe that if you do something really well, you should not be doing it for free. Capitalism be damned.