Mach Speed Mindset with Michelle “Mace” Curran

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1:31This isn't theory, it's live leadership at MockSpeed. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you one of the best thought leaders in our space today, my good friend, Michelle Mace Curry. Michelle, how you doing today, dear? I am great. That was one of the best intros I have ever heard. I need you to travel with me. First off, you've had many amazing intros, so I'm not going to go there, but you are amazing. You are awesome and you deserve everything that I just said. So thank you so much. So Mace, I love starting my episodes by asking my guests about their because that thing that's deeper than your why that purpose, that mission that drives you.

2:19And it changes over time. Right. So if I were to say today, Mace, what's your because? Why do you keep doing the things that you do and giving so unapologetically from your soul? I love this question and that you started with today because I think it's clearer for me today than it has been at any other point in my career in the various chapters. and being an entrepreneur post active duty military, quite the shift, quite the change in just structure, you know, used to having a chain of command and very clear mission and orders and being part of a high performing team. And now I'm a solo entrepreneur.

2:59There's no playbook. There's no wingman who's in the thick of it with me, even though I have some amazing people that help whenever I need them. And so I tell people they're always surprised that I'm so passionate about what I'm doing now because it seemed like I've already done things that people look up to in such a unique way. But I feel so clear that I'm creating my legacy now, even though I got to fly for the Thunderbirds, which is just a cool thing to be part of. And it gave me the platform to do what I do now. It gave me the perspective and the wisdom to be able to present my ideas in a way that really impact people in this new chapter.

3:40But I get to tangibly see the inspiration happen in front of my eyes when I give a keynote speech, when I talk to someone afterward and they tell me how that moment where they felt like I was talking directly to them just changed their life. and now with my book, I get these amazing pieces of feedback that are very similar where they're like, I feel like you wrote this for me and I know what I'm going to go do differently now. So it's not just I feel good. It's I'm going to act accordingly because of that. And so having this platform and this position and this timing to be able to not just feel fulfilled myself because I get to control my schedule and I'm my own boss and I have creative control, the narrative, but just to see this legacy being left when I talk to a 20-year-old woman who wants to be a pilot, or I talk to a 65-year-old man who's retiring and feels like he's lost his identity.

4:40And so I feel like that's still sort of my why, but I like that you took it a little bit deeper because being an entrepreneur is hard and uncertain And it just keeps me running towards the target without hesitation, maybe naively sometimes, but I absolutely love it. I love that. I love your answer. And I love I've told you offline, like, I just love the person, the human being that you are so inspired by you. You know, my best friend in the world is celebrity chef Robert Irvine, whose mission, whose because is helping our heroes. Right. Like our military, our veterans, our servicemen and women, first responders that really make what we do in the United States easy.

5:28And I know that we all have adversity. We all have challenges. But Michelle, without people like you, I don't think the world would understand the true adversity, the true challenges that we would have. So, again, I just want to thank you for all that you have done, all that you currently do, and all that I know you will continue to do. So thank you for that. No, that means a lot. And Robert has just done such an incredible job of using the platform he's been given to give back to the veteran community. He's, you know, just a handful of people are doing it at that level, and he's one of them. So I love that connection.

6:03Absolutely. So you are Wisconsin's finest, born and raised in Wisconsin, right? My youngest son went to undergrad at Beloit in Wisconsin. So I got to spend a little bit of time in that great state. Talk to us a little bit about growing up in Wisconsin. But more importantly, when did you know that, yeah, I'm going to go support and fight and defend for our country in the Air Force? Yeah. Yeah. Growing up in Wisconsin was a great place to grow up. And but my dad would be very sad if I didn't tell you when I was growing up. We didn't live anywhere close to Beloit, but we would drive past the exit for it.

6:40And we're like, we're going on a road trip. And he would say, you know how they named that town? It's the sound a quarter makes if you accidentally drop it in the toilet. The most obscure thing that I remember from my childhood. I don't even think I've ever been to Beloit. So I apologize for people from there that are listening. But that is what my dad would say. That's the most dad story I've ever heard. Of course. And well, I won't I won't bash Beloit because my son went to college there. But yeah, like it's one of those towns that has a ton of history. But you could miss it if you don't pay attention.

7:20Yeah, that's that's weird. Yeah. Lots of hidden gems like that in the Midwest in general, I think. But yeah, so I didn't grow up in an aviation family or military family. My grandpa, my dad's dad, had been a lieutenant in World War Two in the Navy. And so there was a small exposure there. He passed away when I was two years old, so I don't have any memories of him. But his trunk, his like military green metal trunk with Lieutenant Kern stenciled on the end of it was at my grandma's house growing up. and I used to open it, take out all his stuff. There were letters that he had written to my grandma.

7:56There were black and white photos from him in like the Pacific during World War II. He was in the thick of it and his uniforms were in there. And I would actually try them on and put on his spectacles and his wooden pipe was in there. And it was just like this treasure trove of what felt like adventure coming from a small town in Wisconsin. And so I think that was in the back of my mind. And fast forward to high school where I need a way to pay for college. And I'm a good student, but my parents don't have a college fund for me. I start talking to my dad about this. And he had gone to UW-Madison for a while.

8:34And he had seen all of the ROTC cadets running around. He wasn't in ROTC, but he was just familiar that it existed. So we start talking about that. We end up settling that Air Force ROTC would probably be a good fit. great scholarship opportunities. At that point, I didn't want to be a pilot. But the Air Force, I associated with this idea of exploration and adventure. And it just felt like the branch that I got the most excited about. So I go off to college in Minnesota on an ROTC scholarship as a criminal justice major. Because my plan is to do four years in the Air Force after I graduate to pay back my scholarship.

9:17And then I want to be an FBI agent. Okay. That is my dream as like a 16 year old. Wow. I don't know why I always joke that I love the X-Files growing up. And you know, the most accurate representation of what FBI agents do, hunt down aliens. But there we are. That's amazing. And then halfway through college, I'm already going to commission as a lieutenant when I graduate college. We end up visiting an Air Force base and I see two fighter jets take off in full afterburner and I am just awestruck. It is the coolest thing I have ever seen. Goosebumps, jaw dropping. And I'm like, forget the FBI. How do I go do that?

10:03And then it became my singular focus on how I can make that happen. So as much as I feel like I know about you, I never knew the how you got there. Like, That's awesome. That's awesome. So let's talk about, you know, you're enlisted. You're you're you're doing amazing things. When did you realize that you're a leader? And there's a purpose that I'm asking this question. But but when did you know when did you accept the responsibility? I'm going to ask it that way. When did you accept the responsibility that I have to lead? I have to lead people.

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13:23That's such an interesting question, because that's one of those titles that I always felt a lot of imposter syndrome around. And it's because I didn't stay in the Air Force long enough to be what the Air Force talks about as like leadership, like a squadron commander. Right. Right. Like I would have I left at 13 years had I stayed in for probably two more years, I would have gotten into a position like that. But I left before that. And so I had so many moments where I was a leader, even if it wasn't at that level in that title. Right. Like I was a flight lead in formation. I was a mission commander putting 60 aircraft in the air and I'm the one in charge of that entire thing.

14:06I go to the Thunderbirds and I'm for two years, my title is the lead solo. And so it's funny because from an outside perspective, I was leading in so many different ways. And when I was in that role, when we took off and I was the mission commander or the flight lead or the lead solo, I very much was empowered to be the decision maker, to execute as the leader. But I had a harder time kind of identifying as a leader in general, right? Like when I'm not officially in that role. And I don't think it was until almost when I left the Air Force and I started to interact much more with the civilian world where people would always refer to my leadership.

14:53and refer to me as a leader. And I was like, wait, is that true? Is that accurate? And now three years later, writing the book, I think, really solidified that for me because so much time went into thinking about the experiences in my career, pulling stories from them and being like, what wisdom is here that other people can learn from? And now I'm speaking as a thought leader, which is a whole nother ball game. And so it was a bit of a circuitous route to get there. I don't feel like I commissioned into the air force as a lieutenant and was just like, I'm a leader now. Yeah. I definitely stumbled around it for over a decade.

15:34So I purposely asked that question and I promise to everybody that's watching or listening, this was not rehearsed. Because you are one of the best. I'm going to put you in my top three leadership speakers, leadership development coaches that I know. And I genuinely mean that. And when we talk about some of the topics that you discuss and the workshops that you put on, a couple of my favorites are ones that you just brought up. So dealing with imposter syndrome, which I think is crazy. crazy in a good way for everybody listening. Watch. I don't mean it's crazy to have imposter syndrome. I mean, it's crazy in a good way that we're talking about it.

16:24Right. And in a very positive way, you talk about the power of creating a culture of trust, which I also talk about like in 2025, going into 2026, trust is the new currency for the modern employee. Trust is what they crave. Trust is what they desire. It's no longer about your benefits, It's your 401k package, right? Like your PTO. It's not that. It's can I trust you? And then you talk about overcoming self-doubt. And I wanted to ask you, and we can go deeper into dealing with imposter syndrome. For the viewer or listener right now that's struggling with imposter syndrome, that's willing to admit that they're struggling with imposter syndrome, what are some things that they can start doing to overcome that to in your words to deal with it yeah i i struggled with this so much early in my career and then it popped up a few times later but i think my perspective on it had changed so it was more more manageable and now that i speak about it openly it is such a widespread experience it is not just for people in an environment like a fighter squadron and it's not just for people that are in such a minority like I was as 2 % of fighter pilots when I came in were women.

17:43I think that that can layer on to it. But the number of even experienced leaders who are in a C-suite at a big company who happen to be in my keynote audience and come up afterwards and are like, I'm the CFO and I feel this every single day. It is such a common thing, but no one talks about it that openly. And so I think that's one of the big things is recognizing it and then normalizing it. And then we can do something about it. And so even just having the self-awareness to be listening to podcasts like this one that are focused on that personal development, that EQ, that self-awareness, because without that, you're not going to admit it.

18:25You're just going to be stuck in the struggle and just not even have the perspective to realize what's going on. But one of the things that I do with people to help them recognize it is an exercise where we go, we call it going to war with your inner critic. And they actually write down like the physical attributes that that negative inner voice would have, what it sounds like, what it looks like, they give it a name. And I know for me personally, I realized that so many of my business decisions, I was filtering through this inner voice, this critic that was, I guess, the world's idea of what the perfect fighter pilot would be.

19:03So it was an older male, super tactical, experienced fighter pilot who wasn't a real person, was kind of just made up of society's expectations and the pressures that I felt my entire career. And as I'm writing my book, as I'm putting stuff out on social media, as I'm doing a speech, I would be like, who am I to tell my story? What makes me so special? How dare I become a thought leader in this space that's full of amazing people? And so I think we all have that version. And giving it characteristics. Mine's name is Stan. Giving it characteristics and a name. Now when it shows up, you're just like, oh, I know what this is.

19:45I see it for what it is and I can choose to ignore it or, or listen to it. I get to choose what I do though. Yeah. And then talking to someone else about it, a mentor, a peer, someone else who's in your same space dealing with similar pressures. I almost guarantee they're going to tell you they felt the same way. And that's the normalizing it part. That's awesome. That is so awesome. You know, and I just talked about one of your other topics that you and I are in so much alignment on creating a culture of trust. Michelle, when I grew up and when I first got into the workforce and even as a student, as an athlete.

20:27Leaders, the mantra was do as I say, not as I do. And more importantly, do as I say today, because I might contradict something I told you yesterday or last week. Right. And that was kind of the power of leadership. That doesn't work anymore. Right. Like I tell people all the time, especially with like my children, I tell the story of when my parents and grandparents told me something I had to believe. And it wasn't until the Internet became a thing that I was like, wait, that wasn't true what they told me. Right. And now with your children, with the people that you lead, the people that you work with, before you can complete the sentence that you're telling them, they're already fact checking.

21:10Right. Because trust is so important. And I said it earlier, trust is the new currency. And I mean that because that's what the modern employee, that's what the modern teammate is looking for. First and foremost is, can I trust you? Regardless of what the mission is, right? Can I trust you that one, we're in this together, two, you're going to give me purpose, and three, you're going to be transparent about what we're trying to do. But that all starts with trust. I'd love for you to talk to the leaders out there today that don't understand how important trust is for building a powerful high performance.

21:51Yeah, I think it's always been important. But what you said, like it's becoming more and more important, because especially with AI, becoming more of what it is, and even anyone who's on social media knows half the time, they can't trust their own eyeballs. And that's like a crazy place to be in. And that's only going to continue to be a bigger, a bigger issue. And so that trust and that authenticity and that connection is what people want. And that's what creates the highest performing teams. And I think one of the things in the military and one of the reasons I had a hard time taking on the title of leader is because I did see several leaders.

22:27I had some amazing bosses as well, but I did see several leaders who kind of ruled with the iron fist, right? Like you just shut up in color. You're in the military. You just do what I do. I don't need to tell you why. You don't need to understand the part of the mission that you contribute to. Just follow orders. That does work temporarily, but that does not work long-term. And that does not have people invested in the purpose and the mission and showing up as their best. They're going to show up and clock in and clock out, but you're not getting the full potential from that person. And I think one of the things that fighter pilot culture does really good to foster trust, because we have to have it at such an extreme level, especially the Thunderbirds, right?

23:10Like You're flying as close as 18 inches from another airplane going 400 or 500 miles an hour. And a lot of times when we're in formation, you might be looking to the right, staring at the jet next to you, trying to stay in position. And there's another person to your left in another airplane doing the same thing. And you cannot turn and check on them. You just have to trust that they're not going to hit you and that they're going to move so that you can move where you need to go without being like, oh, are they out of the way? It's insane. And so the fighter pilot debrief, where after every flight, we have this opportunity for feedback, ownership, and accountability.

23:49When you are a young, new fighter pilot, it's intimidating because you feel like you're getting in trouble. And you also suck at your job because you're a beginner. So most of the debrief is just talking about the things you messed up because you're the weakest link because you're new. But as you progress and as you get kind of brought into that team and that trust starts to develop, you realize that the purpose of that is not to shame you, to ridicule you, to make you feel bad. the purpose is to openly look at everyone's mistakes whether that's me as a brand new lieutenant whether that's the wing commander who's a one-star general and happens to also be a fighter pilot and flies a handful of times a month and is honestly just not that tactically good at that point because he has a lot of other stuff going on yeah and when he fesses up his mistakes the same as i do that's what creates that trust and everyone understanding that the reason we're doing this feedback is because we want to be the best team we can possibly be.

24:55It's not to call you out. It's not to make you feel bad. It's because we have this shared goal that creates that psychological safety that creates a team that gets better a lot faster because errors aren't hidden. They're learned from immediately. That's awesome. That is so awesome. And I know you talk, You highlight a lot of this also in this new amazing book that you have coming out or that is out the flip side. Let's talk about the flip side. Let's talk about what readers are going to get out of this book. Let's talk about your purpose and passion of writing in it and putting ideas in the paper.

25:38It was quite the process. I worked on it for three years and it's been out for about a month and a half as of when we're recording this. So still very fresh. It was one of those things where I was out there telling my story early on doing speeches and I was constantly getting asked if I had a book. I was like, I've been out of the Air Force for two minutes. Hold on. It takes a second to write a whole book. And also, I didn't know if I had the wisdom and enough to put into 70 ,000 words. That's very intimidating. And I didn't want to just check the box to have a book. I wanted to make sure it was something I was proud of, that I believed in, and that could really impact people.

26:22So I sat down with a professional writer, almost like I would say my talks with her were like therapy because it would be like, well, I have this story. And then we would dig into it and having that person to bounce ideas off of and find through lines and themes and all this like jumble of 13 years of crazy experiences I had was so helpful. And it became clear very quickly that fear was really the common thread. Because I tell some crazy stories of near misses in the airplane in the book where fear of physical harm, fear of death is on the table. and I think that's what people expect coming from a fighter pilot but there's only a handful of those in there because that was not the fear that I dealt with most often it was that fear of failure of not being good enough of letting people down and that is what makes it relatable so it's it's not just cool jet stories those are sprinkled in there but it is really people it's not written for other pilots anyone who picks it up I think will see themselves and somewhere in the pages.

27:29And then we also did a lot of research in human psychology to really root it in science. So it's not just me being like, anecdotally, I experienced this. It's also like, this is why our brain does that. This is like why we get overstimulated and overstressed and can't perform. And here's how you can manage that in any situation. Save big on landscaping projects at Minard's. Transform your outdoor living space with easy, no-cut block projects. From fire pits and grill stations to planters and fountains, we offer hundreds of free project plans that are easy to build with no block cutting required.

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28:50Like, you know, Michelle's going to tell you and I'm going to tell you, you just have to acknowledge it first and then you can have a plan to face them. But if you if you don't acknowledge that what you're experiencing or what you're feeling is fear, then you're never going to overcome it. Or I shouldn't say that you're never going to face it the way that you should. So I love for you, the expert, Michelle, to talk to us about facing your fears and how you can approach doing it. Yeah, much like the inner critic and imposter syndrome, the first thing is acknowledging it and recognizing it for what it is.