Protect & Serve: From Counterterrorism to Anti-Trafficking with Jeff Tiegs

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1:03Mick:And they have world-class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. Tackle all of those important tasks from one place, making your life easier and your business operations smoother. See less carts go abandoned and more sales go with Shopify and their shop pay button. Sign up for your$1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash realm. Go to shopify.com slash realm. That's shopify.com slash realm. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today we have an unparalleled force of leadership, a true titan whose career spans over 25 years of relentless service and counterterrorism and elite special operations.

1:52Mick:He is a guy who is gonna blow your mind with some of the most amazing stories, but most importantly, talking about faith and purpose. Please join me in welcoming the outrageous, the courageous, the truly unstoppable, my guy, Mr. Jeff Teens. You're listening to Mick Unplugged, hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and stories spark transformation. Mick takes you beyond the motivation and into meaning, helping you discover your because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush, and trust me, you're in the right place. Let's get unplugged.

2:35Jeff, how are you doing today, brother? Thanks, Mick. I don't think I've ever been called a titan, which I'll take it. I'm kind of short. you know what I mean people are always when they meet me in person I think they're slightly disappointed but I will say I'll use this you know no no no Mick Mick said I'm a titan so take that

2:52Mick:yeah it hey it's it's on film and it's on record so it has to be true right let the record show so thanks for having me I'm really excited for this discussion I think that I mean there's never a bad time to talk about leadership and purpose and passion but I think today and what's happening in America is probably as good as ever. I couldn't agree with you more, man. And you know, Jeff, I like to start my show by asking my guests one simple question. And that question is what is your because? What is your purpose? What is that thing in Jeff today that's deeper than your why that really fuels your passion?

3:32Mick:So Jeff Teagues, man, what is your because? Great question. And I'm glad to be able to answer it. I sum up my because is simply I am a protector. I came to terms with that years ago. And really where I really started to come to terms with it was questioning why I was sacrificing so much of my time with my family, even my health with these wars. that became obvious to us that we weren't going to win those wars. We weren't going to win Iraq. We weren't going to win Afghanistan. There just wasn't that national will. Was it something I wanted to continue to pursue? And was it something I was willing to put my life on the line for?

4:17And Mick, in that soul searching and even going back into my time and my childhood, and I write about some of these things and it's things that I'm, I like this age where you're, things have calmed down. I'm not as ambitious there's plenty of stuff in the rear view mirror there's plenty of water under the bridge and I'm able to look back and I realized a few years back I'm going to say maybe 2010-ish I'm a protector that's what I do that's who I am, that's what I do and I will die trying there's a bunch of different words came into that, a guardian a fighter, a commando those are all kind of aspects that sit under that protector.

4:59But that's, that's who I am. That's what God put me on this planet to do. And I see my roles in that continuing until the day I move on to the next, next phase of things. I wholeheartedly believe that.

5:13Mick:And I see that and you know, being a huge fan of yours and studying your works. I mean, that truly is what you're about, man, like your journey from an 18-year-old 1st Ranger Battalion, right, to Lieutenant Colonel in Delta Force is extraordinary. Was there a moment that you realized that that was your purpose, like being that protector? Was there a pivotal moment that stands out to you? It does. And again, I don't want the listeners to misunderstand that I always recognized this or there was nobility in any of this. I was a young man who was hungry for adventure and hungry for challenge and wanted to be part of the best, you know, fighting forces that I could find.

5:55This wasn't pure. You know what I mean? Like I look back on it and God's guidance, there was a purity in there that I didn't understand, you know. And so what I would say is as we around 2005 to 2007, we lost a lot of guys. Those were some tough years for special operations in Iraq. Lost some friends, lost some guys. My boys are old enough now to recognize that I'm going into harm's way. I could just feel the strain of it everywhere. And I very distinctly remember looking for people who had discussed this either in story, in documentary, in film, but really probably in books. And I sought these books out, these people that had gone through this and how they navigated it.

6:45And I couldn't really find anybody that did it well. So I did come across this book. And the author, her name is Maria Coffey. and I'm sorry, I think it's In the Shadow of the Mountain or Where the Mountain Cast Its Shadow. It's one of those two titles. I can't remember specifically. But she was the fiancé of a high-altitude alpinist and her fiancé died in the high mountains, which you have a much more likelihood of dying as a high-altitude alpinist than even you do as a commando in the military. It is a very, very dangerous job. So when she lost her fiance, she wrote this book through her grieving process.

7:28And she was questioning, who was he? And how did he love the mountains more than he loved his family? And then introspectively, who was she that she loved this man who she knew was putting this pursuit of things in front of her and in front of her family? and she came to the realization that that was his identity he was a high altitude mountaineer that's who he was and that part of that is what attracted her to him that was exciting and it was unique and it certainly you know there was never a boring moment and even in those times of of of a volatility of a relationship like that it was something that she sought and she willingly she didn't know at a time but as she retrospectively looked at it she was willing to lose him she was willing to tie herself and bind herself to this man who had this other calling and this other passion and i i i recommend this to people who are looking for passion and purpose it really solidified what i was seeking in my own life and it was that identity and then you know i kind of started with commando right because a high altitude alpinist is exciting a commando is exciting i I don't an assaulter.

8:48I don't know what kind of term. And I and I live for those. But that's that felt a little banal. Right. Like it really wasn't that fight that I was living for, even though it was a lot of what my drive was. I just love the fight. It really was working with my mates. It really was defending these people that needed to be defended. So I arrived at this idea of a protector and quite honestly make that there was inflection points in my career where I was thinking about getting out. And I thought, nope, one more, one more time. Let me share one other story with you that to this day is still a weird one.

9:25I was going through this reflection and I, I think it's probably based on my faith. You know, I was, I was born and raised as a, as a, as a Christian who, who references the Bible. If you, if you want to know about who you are and where you come from, that's the book, right? Those are the stories. So I always that was always of the bedrock of what I looked at. But I was always looking for other people's stories. And I remember one year and this this story doesn't make any sense because it's you know, you're you're old enough to or like this doesn't make any sense memory wise. Like I remember being in Colorado when this happened.

9:56And I remember I remember all these pieces. And I don't I can't. If I was in a court of law, I would be I would none of this would make sense. They pick me apart. But how I remember it, okay, is I woke up one night and I was still pondering this of like, hey, is this time? My wife has had some health issues. Again, I felt like I wasn't giving my boys enough of what they deserved as a father. And I went downstairs and I flipped on the channel and Charlie Rose was on, who I used to love. I used to love Charlie Rose and that Oakwood table and just the diversity of the different people that he would have and what the questions that he would take them through.

10:35and there was this beautiful ballerina and she was sitting out across from Charlie and she was I think she was maybe close to 40 or something like that and she was just talking about dance and Charlie was talking to her about you know how this as she evolved and she moved through dance why why is she still in it why why hasn't she moved on you know a 40 year old there's no such thing as a 40 year old ballerina right you know at least at the levels that she had attained And she said, Charlie, I realized that I lived this very unique life. I was given all of this opportunity. I was trained by the best.

11:13I worked with the best. And I'm in a small audience of people that just understands the potential of dance. and make that landed with me where again you take out high level high altitude alpinist you take out ballerina and you put in special special operations soldier i had been selected and trained with the best in the world i had seen angles of warfare that other people only touch upon or barely understand the things that you see in movies the the spy game the assault game the the the the conventional war, you know, airborne insertions, everything that you imagine of warfare and then everything around it.

11:54And I realized I'd been given much and much is expected. I understand the potential of war. And I think that's gonna strike a lot of people as an odd statement, but war is such a valid option to make huge changes in the world and to make life better for people. We just haven't been using it that way of late. So the potential of warfare kept me in for a while because of this ballerina. Again, I've gone back and I've tried to find that episode with Charlie Rose. And I think I found it. I think I recognized the ballerina, but she never says what I'm telling you she says. So I don't know if it was cut out or whatever it was.

12:41But those two points in time are, again, this is a long answer to one single question. Those two points in time stand out in my mind where I began to understand myself and who I was and who my passion and purpose was and what it would take for the people that chose to love me or even sons who didn't choose to be around me. We brought my wife and I brought them into this world. They were forced to be with me. What it was that they would have to endure. And then obviously when it was time to retire, I couldn't get this idea out of my mind that I'm a protector. I was also fearful that I would lose my identity, which brought me into the counter sex trafficking space.

13:28I wanted to be around the men and women that I had spent most of my life with. the talent, the drive, the passion, offer them something new, something that's relatively safe. We don't need to go to the furthest corners of danger in the world to affect change and protect people. People need our help right here in the United States. And when I started to look internal, again, I felt a little bit guilty that I had been working so hard to fix things in areas of the world that really didn't want our help. And so much had fallen away with exploitation and abuse and all these other things that we confront on a daily basis now with the counter sex trafficking.

14:10Mick:That is actually where I wanted to go next. So it's as if we rehearsed this and you gave me the perfect segue slash layup to ask you a question. So, you know, you've gone from or you transitioned from counterterrorism operations to leading Skull Games, which is the organization that you were just referencing. Talk to us about, not the mission of why you started Skull Games, because I get that, and I think we understand that, but talk to us more about what the average everyday person doesn't recognize with human trafficking in the United States and what Skull Games is doing to disrupt and create war there.

14:52So let me let me first answer a question you didn't ask and then get to the one that you did ask. So this is this is a logical extension of this idea that a I'm a protector and be much has been given right like I just I understand the enemy, you know, there's one of the one of my favorite quotes of all time is from Sun Tzu where he says, if you understand yourself, and you understand your enemy, you need not fear the result of 100 battles of 1000 battles, however, it is. Then it's pithy. And you'll see this above, you know, executives, you know, offices and their desks, you know what I mean? But it's loaded.

15:33Knowing yourself is very, very difficult. And then even even knowing yourself as you change and adapt, I am I am the same guy was when I was 15 years old, but I'm also not. So knowing yourself is a constant pursuit. Knowing your enemy is something that I think I excelled on in the military. I knew Al-Qaeda. I knew ISIS. I knew my enemy. I knew how they thought. I knew how they fought. I knew what they were gonna do.

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18:08Mick:Whether it's enriching leads, coaching your sales team, resolving tickets, or streamlining marketing, Zapier makes it simple. Join the 3.4 million companies already automating with Zapier and transform how you work with Zapier and AI. Get started for free by visiting zapier.com slash mick. That's Z-A-P-I-E-R dot com slash mick. and and it allows you to to insert yourself into their game and win so my hypothesis as I was beginning to transition out of the military was hey are these things that I've learned studying just bad people it's particularly terrorist insurgents but again when you talk about a terrorist and an insurgent it's all wrapped up into everything they're kidnappers they're exploiters they're human traffickers they're drug traffickers they're weapons traffickers you know there's there's all sorts of it there's there's media emirs that run all these things so there's there's aspects of crime that i think has a has a constant to it so i thought i've spent the better part of my life understanding my enemy and finding ways to interject ourselves into their game and beating them at their own game, how much of that is transferable into a trafficker or a pimp?

19:32The first thing was a pimp. There's a lot out there about pimps. What is pimping? There's books out there, how to be a pimp, how to be a successful pimp. So the first question was, are pimping and trafficking the same? Are pimps and traffickers the same? Answer is yes. Evil people do evil things and there's patterns and processes that they use. So as I thought, maybe 40, 50, 60 % of what I learned in the military would be applicable towards this crime category. It's a, it's a hundred percent. So that was again, just an extension of this recognition of what you poured into me as an American citizen, what you expected me to excel at.

20:12You spend a lot of time and energy developing me as a, as a special operations soldier and it's still my requirement and duty to give back. So that's that kind of bookend on that one. Going back to what you're saying, I don't think people fully appreciate how vast and deep this level of evil is in the United States. And the thing that's fascinating to me about trafficking or this sexual exploitation is it's based upon innate qualities. So, you know, when we go through life, I like to point out to the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where first you have to have security, you have to feel safe, you have to have a place to eat, you have to have a place to sleep.

21:01But then we're all very rapidly, once those are provided, and there are people that are still in that space, but we look for love and we're looking for self-esteem. And even as you progress into your teen years, that's where we're at. There's a vulnerability there because you are beginning to separate yourself from your parents. Otherwise, we'd all still live in the basement, right? There's a built-in tension with parents. There's a built-in identity in independence that comes with maturation, you know, in adolescence. And there's that pursuit to find somebody else who provides you that self-worth and provides you that self-esteem and starts to show you love.

21:40That's design. That's God's design. That's, that's, that's the, our, our bio, our biomechanical design. You know what I mean? That's the way humans are built and it's a beautiful thing, but in all of that is space for exploitation and the way that these guys wait to manipulate. Um, it's, it's fascinating to watch. They're incredibly good at it. There's a million ways I can liken it. You know, and one of the ways I like it because it's very, very simplified is I live here in Oregon and I run the trails and there are mountain lions out there all the time. I don't see them. They're out there and they don't let themselves be seen.

22:27And when they are seen, it's because they have identified something that was vulnerable, something that they think they could attack. A lion on the savanna, when the lion attacks a herd of pick an animal, antelope, he doesn't go for the leader. He doesn't even go for the mid pack. He identifies the weakness. He can smell it. He can sense it. And we all have weaknesses. We all have vulnerabilities. And sometimes it's passing. Sometimes it's a season. You know, it's a season of depression. It's a season of alcohol abuse. It's a season of confusion. Sometimes those windows open and close. But these predators are remarkable at identifying when that season is ripe and what levers they need to pull.

23:19So I think folks, they don't need to be afraid. And there is no magic panacea on how to keep them out of your house. They're in your house. If your children are on social media, they're there. They're on all the kids games. They're already there talking with your children. It's very hard to stop. The more difficult thing is building a level of self-confidence and helping your children feel and understand and recognize that they're seen and heard and valued and they don't have to look at that from an external point of view. I'd like to say that a believer who trusts God and believes in Jesus has that built in.

24:00Yeah. But we know it isn't that simple. It's not a magic pill. We still go through these seasons of doubt and vulnerability. So, again, a very long answer to a very simple question. Parents, caregivers, teachers, they need to understand and recognize what these vulnerabilities are in these children. We have them as adults, and they need to find ways to build hedges around these kids when they're vulnerable, where they get to that point where they're beyond. And the prime hunting areas are 13, 14, 15 years old. You know, that's when these kids are being, are almost at their most vulnerable or their most malleable.

24:46Once a young person is 19, 20, 21, 22, it becomes less and less likely that these predators are going to be able to worm their way in and be successful. So, again, there really is only a 10-year period, 13 to 23, 12 to 22, whatever it is, where I think parents and caregivers need to be hyper-aware that the risks are high. You know, and Jeff, that's making me think a little bit because you said, you know, if your kids are on social media, the predators are there or the enemy is there.

25:22Mick:If they're on apps and games, the enemy is there. And I know one of the things that Skull Games is leading the mark on is innovation and technology. Can you talk to us about how Skull Games are using technology to help do the job and the roles that you all do to impact that space? Yes. Thank you. So one thing I'd like to, I'd like to just bind when we talk about, because this crime is huge, right? And what we just talked about is a hundred percent across the board. Every single human has vulnerability. You have it. I have it. Every adult has it. Every child has it. So we just need to be a little bit more safe where people can talk about those.

26:07Most of the time when I talk about sex trafficking, that's what I spend most of my time on is we need to be able to have a safe space where we can talk about what's troubling us. We can talk about what our vulnerabilities are, you know. So that aside, that's the giant iceberg, right? So what Skull Games does very, very specifically is we hunt escort ads to identify who the girls are that are being sold and who the traffickers are that are selling those girls. so what it's i mean i can't even tell you how big the iceberg is under the water it's it's just a tiny piece but it will keep us busy until we all retire again you know so what i mean by that is a lot of things have to happen under the surface that we don't see initially what we see is a woman or a girl.

27:01Again, there are boys and men that are being sold. It isn't a huge market, right? There's a bell curve and we're hunting the center of the bell curve. What is the product that is most likely being sold? Who is the most likely profile of the buyer? That's where we hunt a majority of our time. So there's a human being, usually a woman or a young girl, for sale online. it's an escort site they're accessible all over the world um i say this very often it's as easy as ordering a pizza you go to that escort site you type in your city that you're at the town that you're at where you want this girl delivered it's basically a drop down menu of what it is you're looking for do i want a blonde do i want a brunette do i want this do i want that and now you reach out and you communicate to this victim.

27:50Now this victim is not who you're communicating with. That's the fantasy. You see a picture of a girl, you communicate to her, you start negotiating a price, you start negotiating a sex act. You think that you're already getting excited, right? This is, this is, you know, these are two Americans. This is a woman selling her body. I'm a man who wants to rent her body. God bless America. You know, they don't realize there's the in-between. There's the pimp. There's the trafficker. He's who you're speaking with. So that's where we start. And on these escort sites, there are millions and millions of ads.

28:30So if we were going to work in any city, the first thing we do is we look at the current ads that are happening in that city. And then we look for indicators of trafficking, not just prostitution. So again, I say we're a counter sex trafficking organization. We're not counter prostitution. I'm against prostitution, but it's such a vast problem. We're looking for the worst of the worst, right? Right. So if a girl is for sale online, there are certain indicators, emojis, the way the photos are taken, different indicators in the ad. Very, very simple things where you start running the phone number, you start running the email address because this has to be a contact.