2632: Supplement Wizard & Organifi Founder Drew Canole

22:38So let's go for it, cut costs and you know, who knows, we'll see what happens. But those companies don't last long. Not at all. No, they don't last long. So if you want to like, and we talk to people like this all the time, like with our business, we teach trainers this, you want a sustainable business, you have to do it the right way. Otherwise you'll be in and out in a couple of years. And I've seen businesses come and go like that. Yeah. There's lots of supplement companies, unfortunately. Gone. Are you pro? You probably not, of course not, but would you be pro like regulation of the supplement industry?

23:07They always make that argument because we are, you are pro regulation because we're doing everything by, cause you're already doing it. That's why you're like, even on Amazon, Amazon rolled out this huge transparency program and we're already doing like 80 % of it. But now it's like 40 to 50 % of Amazon subs are gone. Like they will be gone. So you have to have a individual, you like the QR code on the back of every product that you sell that Amazon can actually track. So this is getting crazy, guys. What's the reason behind this? So Harmony is a female product. It's got the Chase Treeberry. It's got cacao with the Bliss molecules.

23:45Really good for PMS. That's the way Justin likes a lot, man. It's one of my... Yeah, exactly. For women, it's one of my favorite products. But we had a semi-truck stolen. A million dollars retail worth of Harmony stolen. No way. Two weeks later, it literally started popping up in Amazon. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. So you had all these resellers. Someone hijacked a supplement. Somebody hijacked a million dollars worth of Harmony. What? So back to the kilo. Yes, dude. Dude, it's literally like cartel shit. Wow. It literally got hijacked. So then we had to hire a freaking, you know, law enforcement, like security guy to like track down this.

24:18It was in a warehouse in LA and they were just put it in their own packaging. You found it? Yeah. Like most of it, but they were already, it was, the damage had been done. Like they were already selling it for weeks on end. Did they put it like, did they undercut you? was like, oh, it's cheaper. Absolutely. Oh my God. They didn't name it the same. How did you even know it was yours? The SKUs. The SKUs. No, no, so they were still using the same packaging. They were still using the same packaging. Oh, that's just lazy. Yeah, but they're making money. Yeah, but the brand is what sells it. If they made their own brand.

24:46And they're bidding against us. Wow. So they stole your advertising. Using our advertising and undercutting us. Wow. And this happens all the time. I was just going to say, is this a thing where they'll hijack a truck It's a thing. with supplements and then go on Amazon and oh my god. Especially somebody who's already selling a ton of it. And not only that, they'll make their own. So now there's Organifi knockoffs. I've had people like multiple times, they've stolen our whole entire website and then they're selling their own Organifi products. This is why I always tell you, we do not want to be a Subway company.

25:18You do not want to be in the Subway company. This guy always wants us to go that right. I'm always telling you. Listen, talk to Drew and Mike. Mike tells me too, you haven't even mentioned this. That's dirty, man. How dirty Amazon. It's so dirty. The Amazon game I hear is just dirty too. It's so dirty. To get ranked and you have other companies calling other companies just to screw with They'll complain and they'll get taken down. Yeah. My cortisol's through the roof. And we have this growth manager. That's why you need all that happy drop Sheila G. Yeah, exactly. That's truly why I created it.

25:42It's for you. It's an IV drip of saffron over here. Just keeping me up. This is wild. That is wild, man. But that makes perfect sense because you could, I mean, you could, like you said, a million dollars worth of product, put it on. Yep. The consumer has no idea. You're putting millions of dollars of advertising out there. So they're just getting brand recognition. It's our product. Or they'll find a deal day. Like they'll find SheLegit when we give 20, 30 % off and they'll buy a whole gaggle of it in individual people. So you can't catch it. Even the best security interface, AI you're using on your backend isn't going to flag a thousand purchases of people buying five units at a time.

26:16Man, you got people even doing that, cutting the margins. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And then what do they do? They wait till the sale's over and they sell it? And then they just start steamrolling it, dude. so it knocks our buy box completely off this is crazy it's the wild wild west no desire which zero the transparency program on amazon and for um i love it i'm like bring on the regulation you know this is a stuff though that i love you sharing this because i feel like every freaking trainer wants to run a supplement company it's like it's like i'm gonna get there we we help trainers and coaches and it's like yeah i'm gonna get famous online and then i'm gonna make start my supplement coming like you have no idea no idea what a monster that is and how thin the margins are i mean this the size you have to be uh and the volume you have to do to make good money and then then on top of that playing this game like that is crazy it's crazy it's not worth it if you would have approached me eight years ago and said drew what do you think about the supplement industry i would have been like hey let's do it i'm gonna help you because there's so much opportunity now i would tell you to run for the hills oh wow like just stay away oh wow so what Okay, so what happened to the guy or the team or who the hell that was stealing?

27:23Do you prosecute? Do they get busted? Or do they slap on the wrist bullshit? It's so hard, and it's almost like you have to focus on your core business, and to go after people, that's a whole other business. That's what I'm saying. It's not even worth your time. Are we going to hire Dog the Bounty Hunter to go after people? I joke around. I'm like, hey, let's send up a couple of our boys with baseball bats. It's like, what do you do? I'll be a tie-in and you broke it. Yeah, exactly. What do you do? Yeah, what do you do? I mean, do you even know what happened to those people? You don't do anything, dude, because it's a distraction.

27:51You have to focus on your business. Right, you lose more money messing with it. And focusing on something else. Carve it off as a loss and just move on. So focus, the one thing, right, the book, it's like, what are you going to focus on? You're going to go after the low-hanging fruit of people that are stealing from you, or are you going to focus on building out other customer segments and reaching new audiences and actually benefiting the business that way? Wow. On a regular week, okay, just a normal week, how often are you dealing with something like this? Every week. Every week. Every week.

28:20Yeah. That's a lot, dude. Every week. And I have a baby girl. So now you couple that. You guys know. I feel like I'm with my therapist right now. This is great. Free therapy. Is this why you had gained all that weight movement? By the way, when you were long. Oh, of course. Hey, talk to me about that. Dude. Eating cookies like crazy. No, this is good for our audience to hear because you're a health and fitness guy. I am. Like you guys. You had a health crisis, essentially. Big time. Big time. No, for real. You just got a little fluffy. I became a dad bod. you know and dad bod's a big thing right now yeah we'll talk about how it creeped up on you because i'm sure it came it started probably from a good place i didn't even see it yeah because also guys like us are very like i look in the mirror and it's like oh there's a lot of muscle here we're always like in our ego enough to be like i just let it go for a few more weeks i'm bigger and then that i'm just bigger i'm stronger i'm in i'm benching like 400 just repping it out and then i look in the mirror and i'm like okay i look a little swole still but then all of a sudden you look and it's like wait a minute i have like double chins and like everything going on testosterone's falling through the floor hair loss is starting to happen i'm like this stress i have to nip stress in the butt so did it start with with uh pregnancy when she got pregnant were you right away or like when did it for sure okay so i think as you guys know having kids it's like as soon as you have offspring it's like everything gets turned up and oh yeah the legacy drive mode that's insane.

29:42The drive mode goes through the roof, like Justin said, and it's like, I couldn't stop. So now I was the same health guy waking up at four or 5am just to get a couple hours of work in before baby gets up, losing sleep, stressed out about my business. Luckily, I have all the tools, you know, because without our tools, you guys know all the tools that I know, where would we be? So then months into this, you know, six months later after having a baby, it's like, I need to do something about this. I can't be the health guy filming videos on my treadmill with a tire sack hanging on my belly. You said you got into baking to feed your life.

30:18Oh, I didn't know what to do because we had help. I had a couple really gifted night nurses and midwives and we did the natural birth and all the other stuff. Oh, did you? Did you guys do it at home or did you do it in a center? We did it at home. Wow. Talk about that experience. So we did, so I have two younger ones and my youngest, we did in a birthing center with a midwife. and my four-year-old we did in the hospital, and the experience is so different. It's so different. So different. Let's talk about that a little bit. Was it scary for you going to do it, or were you like, no, this is what we're going to do for sure?

30:48My wife still hasn't shared this, so I won't share all the details because that's kind of her story to share as women. We started at home, and then she went through something called leg labor, which one in 4 ,000 women have. Oh, wow. Where your legs start to cramp up, but she got to 9 1⁄2 centimeters, dilated from a little pool that we set up in the living room. And it was the most beautiful experience I've ever had in my life. Like the birth, it's a portal. You guys know this. Oh, it's crazy. And the minute that baby came out and I held her, it's like everything in my life was put into perspective.

31:23Tears. And you guys, I don't know your backstory enough, but I was tortured as a kid. So zero to five, I had parents that were completely checked out. Abusive, sexually abused, like everything you could, the horrific. So to be confronted with that unconditional love in a little baby girl after she was born, it just put everything into perspective. And every day moving forward, it's like, it's so hard because I'm the dad that I never had. You guys are the men that you never probably never had in your life. Maybe you had good dads. I don't know. But there's so much to that. Hearing her cry. I've never talked about this.

32:03This is the first time I ever said this, but even hearing her cry the first time, it just shut me down inside. Cause I remember being alone, you know, in a crib for what felt like two weeks on end. They say, cry it out. But my parents were on drugs. Like they were on meth and everything, probably everything you can imagine back then. And having this little girl has changed me. Everything about me has been shifted and it's hard to receive that kind of love. Oh yeah. Oh, you feel unworthy when you, you have all the limited programming of your past. What has been the biggest challenge with that? Right.

32:38I mean, I think about that all the time too. I had, um, a difficult upbringing. And so, and I, for me, I want to be opposite of everything. Absolutely. And so do you, do you, um, overcompensate? Are there things that like, you, do you have to have these check-ins with yourself of like, I need to be more like this or like, I mean, how has that process been of knowing that you had kind of a fucked up upbringing? and then you obviously want the complete opposite and then you also don't want to overcompensate and cause other issues. There's definitely the titration of both where it's like I will overcompensate a lot because we didn't have money growing up either.

33:14So it's like anything this girl wants, it's like, daddy, can I have this? And it's like, done. Because even one squeal of this little girl, like happy about the smallest little toy, it's like, you want to make that happen. But for me, it's in the crying, it's in when she's not happy. it's like these visceral fascia constrictions where it's like this is not how i'm safe i'm a grown-ass man in this body i can protect myself i'm safe i'm whole all the things that we know but because trauma stores itself in our fascia that's another cortisol inducing event so to go back to what you said it's like when the baby came was it all the stress and everything else absolutely dude there were nights when i would go to bed and it's like did i handle that right Was I a good man in that moment?

33:59Did I give her love? Or am I resorting to the past of like what I learned innately? Well, there's a compounding factor here too, because you have women naturally go through that because as a mother, they're hyper drive. Linked up. Linked up, like cries do things to moms. And they're literally physically connected to the baby through pregnancy. And as the father and the husband, your job is to be the rock, but you're going through these similar kind of emotions. Like how was that for both you guys? It's a, my wife is probably not probably she's a saint and she's so emotionally intelligent where she'll see it and she recognizes it and she talks me through it.

34:41She holds space for it. That's huge. Yeah. When I'm locked up, she's like, Hey, like take a minute. And there's not a lot that really locks me up because I'm, I've done a lot of work, but she gets it. My wife totally understands me in those moments, guides me through it so that I can come back better. But if I was a single dad without the support of a woman that's so in tune, it would be really hard, dude. Did you go through this experience? Because I did to a large extent where you kind of feel – you don't realize this, but you were invincible before. Absolutely. Now you're not. You are extremely vulnerable now.

35:25Vulnerable. Yeah. What was, what's that like? For me, it was a shock. Yeah. You feel naked. You feel so exposed where it's like even emotions, like especially with a girl, it's different. I think it is a little different having a girl as opposed to a boy. And I'm love that I had a girl first because my heart has opened up so much. I mean, outside of listening to Moana a thousand times and like the Disney soundtracks on my phone, like you look at my playlist and it's like, This guy listening to, because she just loves it. So that's what's going to happen. That's what's going to play. She's a little singer.

35:59But there's every moment, every day when I'm just, I get rid of my phone, and I get super present with her on the beach or wherever we are, and I just stare at this little girl and her big blue eyes, and it's like there's so much wonder and so much awe in her. It's literally rewriting my childhood. I think they say every year that you're alive and you have a kid at that, you're reteaching yourself. Yeah. So I'm holding the little boy that never had love. I'm speaking to the little kid at age two that didn't have a dad or a mom even around. And we're working through all that. And it's one of life's greatest teachers.

36:37I've read a lot about this. My wife had some really difficult experiences with our son, with our four-year-old. And what they'll say, I guess what psychologists will say is that whatever your trauma you had as a kid, you do a really good job, especially if you're growth minded and you're, you know, you move forward, you do a really good job with kind of adapting, but nothing will bring it back out. Like having your own kid, which happened with my wife, but what was communicated to her and what's really happened is you can turn post-traumatic stress into post-traumatic growth, but that's hard. So you got to go through all that.

37:14Is that what you're finding? Like I'm going through a lot of this stuff that I thought I could move past. For sure. It was stuff I had. I thought I had it neatly organized in my own unconscious mind. I mean, I had a Peter Levine trained coach, 15 years doing TRE, trauma release exercises, shaking out on my fascia, EMDR. I mean, you name it, I've done it. But as soon as that little girl was just plopped on my chest and cried for the first time, it was like all of that. It just starts to fill the room again. It's like, you may have thought you got rid of it for a second, but here's your greatest teacher.

37:49And I find myself also as a busy entrepreneur in a tough climate, wanting to excel, wanting to have success. And in those moments, it's like, why am I checking out so much? I'm on my phone, like scheduling meetings and doing like stuff that's, I could probably be a lot more effective if I just left the room. But to truly get present with her and just be in the uncomfortable, like, hey, what are you dealing with here? Like looking at it from a higher perspective is where the healing takes place. It's like turning those moments with her into those sacred opportunities to heal something that wasn't healed before.

38:25So I love that you said the post-traumatic growth. That's exactly what's happening. How long have you and your wife been together? How long have you guys known each other? Four years. Four years? Yep. How much did that shift your guys' relationship and change bringing a baby into the picture? Oh my gosh. Night and day. Yeah. When people share the birthing process, I feel like I had such a different experience. Every guy I talk to talks about that moment when that kid comes out of just like this overwhelming looking at him, just like you described. Mine was so much more with my wife. Watching her go through that, it bonded us on another level.

39:04Now, I had still, I mean, holding my son and putting him on my chest, like a lot of great feelings. But the thing that really rocked my world was my capacity for her and how much that was different. I thought that was unique. So did you have, did you feel like you guys really shifted and changed? And what was that like with her? I feel that seeing her level up as a woman. Yeah. Even just bringing a baby in, you know, and this is a Viking baby. Like she had a huge head like me. And my wife is like, I have a small wife. She's like 110 pounds soaking wet. And to see the work that it took to bring this life into this existence and how hard it was for her.

39:43Because it's, I mean, the birth for a woman is like, changes them entirely. Of course. And then to see her heal all of her mom wounds and dad wounds, because she still had all this stuff too, it has brought me so close to her, like you said, and recognizing how powerful she is and how much she's a force, you know? And it's, yeah, I don't think there's anything like it. You said something about, you had briefly said how you'd be on your phone scheduling meetings, essentially dissociating because you're - Because checking out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a driver in a man that tends to happen when you have a baby, which is like, got to make more money, got to be more successful, got to be more focused.

40:25Also, want to be with the kid. It's very easy for a guy, a dad. I did this with my first two, and I wish I could go back in time and change it. I was all in on work so much so that I missed a lot of their childhood. Yeah. Did you, did you find yourself having to like struggle? Like, okay. I chose my baby girl. And I think in many ways it impacted the business because you can't, I think it's hard to have both. It's either you're all in, you can't have all in on everything. No, it's impossible. There's, there's life coaches out there that you get to have it all. Lie. But it's, yeah, it's like you choose.

41:01So it's like, I would rather have presence with my girl in the morning, an hour, hour and a half. And that's my most productive time. I'm a lion chronotype. I wake up at 4 a.m. And I'm ready to go for the day. My most productive time is probably four to, let's say 11 o 'clock. After lunch, I'm basically dead to the world because I've just been so on it for so long. But choosing my girl in those moments has been the best thing for me. And it's definitely impacted the business. Have you created practices? I've had to teach myself certain strategies energies um i think uh jordan peterson shared this on joe rogan's that it's been powerful for me every time before i get home i stop the car in the driveway for literally an extra two minutes and like let go whatever is at work and then like you know and in my head i'm visualizing you know putting putting on my dad clothes i actually as soon as i come in kiss my wife and my son i go upstairs and i put sweats on just to put me that's smart yeah it is just to i've created that as a ritual of this is part of me, even though I don't have like, I wear comfortable clothes to work, but literally the changing of the clothes is comfy dad sweats.

42:10And now I'm full dad mode. Like it helps me. Have you found things like that? I think that's so good for everybody listening to this. You need that. I'm still working on that. Cause if I get up at 4am and I'm on it for like two, three hours before the baby gets up, I'll try to sit for five minutes and just meditate and do some breath work. But there's still an edge. there's still like this testosterone in me. Totally. That's like, I'm hunting. I'm in the middle of hunting. And then I'll go into my wife who just woke up and she's more of like the bear chronotype. So quiet, slow. Oh man. That's like my wife and I.

42:42And that's hard for me to turn off. Yeah. Cause are you loud? Are you like, wake up? I'm loud. I'm like, I'm ready to go. It's gotta be. It's sound too. So even, even, you know, you might do a leg day in the morning. And so then your testosterone is up what? 20, 30 % more. so you're even louder. Like I come in sometimes playing music, like getting the dance party started. You know what I'm saying? And I just get shut down. She's like, hey, this isn't going to work. You need to calm down right now. And she's this little fiery, you know, fiery woman. And I'm like, hey, I respect it, but it's so hard.

43:17So I admire what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. I need to find more methods like that. The changing of clothes is work. Because there's times when I'm on like a heated conversation on the car phone driving home. so i'm in it i'm in a full hunt mode yeah you know yes just in the middle of a kill and i'm like i'm pulling up my driveway and like okay i've got to switch this yep and so it's like i gotta stop in the driveway for a minute or two gather myself decompress then go in straight to the wife kiss her pick my son up i do some of them and then go run upstairs and i freaking put my sweats on t-shirt and by the time i do that and it's not perfect right granted it's still coming down but it really helps that process.

43:57It was been a huge hack for me. I love that. Yeah. Huge hack. And when my wife tells me stuff now, like you need to bring it down a notch or even gives me feedback on how I'm being. It's like, I used to, my ego used to flare up and it's like, woman, like I've been working three hours already. I'm providing, I pay for everything. Like we have all this support, like whatever the ego likes to make up. And I would almost fight with her about it. But now it's like, you know what? Whatever my Oracle says, my wife, I'm going to listen to it. I'm going to you know what? You're right. Like, let me bring it down a notch.

44:28Um, or whatever the situation is because nine times out of 10, she's like spot on, dude. She just sees right through my soul. Yeah. Like just looks, then there's no escaping it. Our women, we need women like that. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Cause would we grow up without that? I don't know. No. Yeah. What is it about little girls too? Is she a daddy's girl? Your little girl? Absolutely. Yeah. So what is it about little girls that do that to us? Cause I have boys and girls. I love all my kids. Love them. But my daughter's going to melt me like nothing. Is it because we know, we identify with the boys, so we know?

45:00My wife says, because for her, it's the boys, right? My son goes to her. Oh, yeah. And she's like, because I know what she's playing. I know what the little girl's doing. I know what my daughter's doing. And it works on you, but it doesn't work on me. It's got to be something like that. I think it's biologically, too. Like, there's something in a man we want to provide. We want to protect. She senses that. Yeah. She's like, here's my guardian. Here's the guy that's going to. What do they say? like your dad is like your first love as a little girl. That's right. So we're modeling everything that we want her to have in the future.

45:28The worst, I heard this once and this hit me, man. The worst man that a girl will put up with is the worst that she saw in her father. So if you yell, if you're not, if you're inconsistent, if you lie, whatever, she'll put up with that. And the guy that she's with. Oh yeah. And that hit me, man. Oh yeah, dude. You know, I love that. I asked a question on my Instagram the other day, and it was like, hey, 20 years from now, you have a two-year-old kid or whatever. Would you allow your daughter to marry you? Yeah. Would you allow your son to marry a woman like you? Yeah. Switch the role, you know?

46:04Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I really thought through that. Uh-huh. What was your answer? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Good, good. That's great. So we're doing good work. That's great, man. And you said you want 10? Early on, fair. I said, how many you want? Yeah. I would love 10 kiddos. What's realistic, though, for reals? probably four yeah i need a bus yeah good for you a lot of people don't want to have a lot of kids anymore oh i love kids man yeah and i i love being a dad it's like my favorite thing i get what the crazy part is i i don't know about you i was was almost not we used to argue yeah when we started this podcast you're such a good dad people that have listened that have listened from the beginning have heard me say that like oh yeah when i because katrina and i've been together for a long time I've been together for 14 plus years.

46:49There was a point in our relationship where we had agreed that we might not have kids. A lot of that had my own wounding as a kid of not having and wanting to provide. And so I had this weird number in my head that I needed to be at before. And I didn't want to bring a child in the world until I was there. And what's funny was that I made peace with that before I had reached that. And the irony of it was the nine months when he was in her tummy was when we really kind of hit that, which was kind of crazy that I let go of it, which is probably what I needed to do. And then everything unlocked and it ended up working out and it ended up like it was at that place that I wanted to be.

47:31And now I look back and I go, shit, I wish I could have five. You know, I want I mean, after having one like that, it makes me want to have a bunch more. But it's wild for me to think that at that time of my life, when I said that I truly didn't feel like I needed to, or it was that important. I was like, yeah, I'm sure if I have a kid, I have a kid. It's not a big deal. I look back now and it's like, oh man, I would have been really missing out. Yeah. I talk to people every day that don't have kids. Yeah. And they're like, I don't want kids. And I'm like in my head, and I don't tell them this unless they ask, but in my head, I'm like, you're going to miss out on so much.

48:06I had no idea how much it would evolve me. The man that I would have to become. Yeah. I didn't realize how selfish I was. I knew I was selfish. Agreed, man. I knew I was a selfish person. I would admit it to you. You ask me, oh yeah, I'm a selfish guy. And a lot of times when guys like us have childhoods like that. You have to be. And you have to be. And then you figure it out. And you're like, hey, now's my time. I didn't get it zero to 10. Like now's my time. And I'm going to live it up. I'm going to enjoy it. So I was very openly selfish and knew that. but to what extent I didn't realize until he came around.

48:38Then when he came around, I realized, oh shit. Like not only was I selfish, but I had never truly loved anything close to how much I love myself. And for the first time I loved something more than myself. Oh, chills. Oh dude. I mean, if you asked me, I'd say, oh, I love my mom. I love my sister. I love my brother. I love my wife. I love all these things. I'd say it, but I never felt like I actually loved more than me. Like I loved all the, I love all those people a ton. and I would take a bullet for them, I'd say. But this thing I actually love more than myself. That was wild. And that plays into the vulnerability.

49:11Ooh. I love it so much. I would never let anything happen to this. It's scary, is what it is. It's scary, but also, I don't know, for me, it really, because I probably would have some, I wish I remember what I would say when someone asked me about purpose in my 20s. I'd probably say something to the extent of - Rolls off the tongue. Yeah, yeah. Something about legacy and leaving something. behind and helping others or some shit, you know, whatever. But having a son coach. Yeah. So having a son was just like, Oh no, it's very clear now. Like that's, yeah, this is it right here. Like that's he's, he, this is me living on, you know, 60, 70 years from now.

49:49So yeah, that was like game changer. I remember Jordan Peterson said like, uh, they're like, why should you have kids? Like, what else are you going to do? And I remember thinking, that's true. What else are you going to do? You're going to drink my ties on the beach all day? I mean, I feel like for habits, I feel like for guys that have i mean i uh you know i think i had a pretty cool life like i like i was agreed yeah i was like yeah but extend that out no i mean i mean listen i'm i totally was blown away i but uh you know that was probably why it seems and i know i'm i talked to others that are considering not having kids and i'm like i get it i totally get it you know you got a rad life you got a lot of cool stuff going on and you think if anything you think the kid's gonna cram into that or collecting stuff yeah and all the cars yeah all the all the cool shit i was i really really enjoyed my life and couldn't imagine a kid possibly making, I thought it would take, yeah, I thought it would take away from some of those awesome things and it didn't, it just made all the better.

50:43I'm with you on that. Yeah. Are you, are you, when you look at your, your, your daughter, do you look, do you think of like the company you've built and what you do? And you're like, this will be something that she can get into when she gets older. Or are you, are you, do you think legacy in that way? I'm pretty detached from that. Okay. But if she wanted to, like, let's say she has the world's littlest green thumb because every time we go outside, she's even when she came out of the womb, guys, it was weird. She would walk up to trees and she would just want to touch the tree. No way. And she would giggle and like smile at the tree.

51:17Yeah. Birds would come up to her. Like just every time we'd walk down to the ocean, she was like, I got to go to the ocean. Dolphins would swim up. Wow. Just freak. I'm getting chills saying it. Like this kid, super in tune, super connected, telepathic, like the kids that are coming are insane. You guys know this. So she's definitely on her own path, like whatever she wants to create. I think maybe she'll get into it at some point, like see dad on, you know, videos talking about super foods, a crazy guy, you know, but I'm not attached at all. She's definitely a little artist. How do you, do you now, how do you look at things like technology?

51:52I mean she's still young but you know well she's a year and a half right? Yeah a year and a half And parents now throw their kids on iPads and stuff We limit it Okay So once a week on the weekend maybe we'll watch a movie together I try to keep the phone out of her hand just because I've seen what it does to kids It's like it just grabs them so much It's like this visceral experience and then they throw tantrums afterwards because of all the blue light Yeah And now you look at all the blue light research and everything that it does neurochemically to children Yeah It's not good so we're trying very hard to keep her entertained through uh minimal stimulated like devices you know what i'm saying toys that don't have a lot of color like we're going about a very natural holistic way yeah but i get it if you're a single mom and you're a single dad and it's like you have to work it's like what do you what do you do like it's so hard i feel really i feel it's tough i have a i have a best friend and his wife and they both work crazy hours and they're raising too and I know that like you know a lot of times he just he uses his defense you know it's just like I'm handling this one so give this one that I mean I get it but then I see that the challenge that they have you know it's really I was having this conversation with a friend of mine because we were talking about diet he was asking me questions and I was talking about processed foods and how they're engineered to make you overeat and etc etc and then and then we got to tech and I said you know what's crazy uh there's you know so much money was invested in and to make processed food so palatable lots of science went into it so much so that has drug-like effects tech engineers itself on the fly so it not only is an engineer but it engineers itself to you individually it would be like eating processed food and it gets better and the processed food can judge by your salivation and by your own you know you're the product yeah and right and so and so tech you're talking about engineering to capture you and to create drug-like effects and to make you addicted or whatever, there's nothing like it.

53:50We've never experienced anything like it. No. So it's smart to avoid it. Well, I mean, even the average screen time that I have, sometimes I look at mine and it's like six and a half, seven hours. I'm like, what's going on? I'm on my phone seven hours a day. Yeah. So even when my little girl sees me on my phone, now I'm like very conscious of explaining, hey, I have a little bit of work to do and then I'll be present with you again. Has it gotten harder to capture people's attention to talk to them about things like health and all that stuff? Absolutely. Okay, because they're getting hit with so much other stuff.

54:18The window's shrinking too. Monday through Friday, I like to focus on health because that's when our willpower is the highest. You guys have looked at that stuff. Weekends, people just want to be entertained. People want to check out because the week was so incredibly intense. So you change your ads? Do you guys, as I said, do you change marketing on those days? We don't change ads, not yet, but that's definitely something we want to test. That's an interesting thought. Yeah, we're doing more entertaining stuff. Like a lot of our ads, I'll wear like a costume and just get a little crazy. They're great.

54:42You know, those seem to work different on different days. Like it's a whole mathematical algorithm in and of itself. Hmm. Yeah. That's an interesting thought. How has the market shifted? Uh, like the consumer, the attention, obviously the attention span is so small now. So you just have to capture like attention quick. Yeah. It's so small now. I mean, you guys are, are blessed because you have this hour long podcast or longer, you know, people are focused. They listen to the whole entire thing. I mean, I've listened to dozens of your podcasts in my car, but if you get somebody on there device and they're just in a scroll hole or doom scrolling first thing when they wake up in the morning, the likelihood of capturing them, it's like, you got to have some bold methods to do that.

55:21Wow. Is the consumer more educated now when it comes to health products and supplements? Absolutely. Okay. Cause everything's so easy to get. I mean, Harvard put all their whole entire curriculum online. Like you could literally go to the best university. Everything's free now. Chat GPT will act like a therapist. It'll act like a contractor. It'll literally interior designer. I literally took a photo of my outfits I'm like hey what's going to be best on the Mind Pump podcast they said wear this outfit wear your best Miami Vice fit exactly talk about kilos of protein powder this is chat GBT advice right here if you're not using if you're not using it though you're just going to get left in the dust going back to Shilajit and how it affects testosterone it's really interesting because the studies on it affecting testosterone are pretty remarkable.

56:13This is a big deal now for men. This has been a big deal, by the way, for decades. People don't know this. We've been tracking testosterone for decades. It's been going down since the 80s. 1950s. Oh, 50s. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So this is a big deal. Now we're getting to kind of like this area where it's like, okay, if we keep going lower with fertility, we're going to be really screwed. So was that like a main focus? Was that one of the main motivators? Absolutely. Okay. Because we look at the big theme. Fertility rates are declining. What can we do to increase fertility? What can we do to increase testosterone, have people feel better?

56:46We've always, as a society, we've always been into hormones. You look at birth control. What does a birth control hormone do? And for men, men are just so deficient. Our granddad's had, what, three times the amount of testosterone as the average boy has now? Yeah, it's wild. I think it was like a 65-year-old man in 1985 had the testosterone, had better testosterone than the average 19-year-old or something like that today. You both are into that stuff, right? So it'd be interesting to see, like, what if we, I met this guy, I was just, where was I just at? I was down in San Diego and I met this family that was, was he Tennessee or somewhere?

57:24I mean, he lived out in the middle of nowhere. No, it was Montana, excuse me. It was Montana Ranch. 14-year-old level testosterone. Well, and so this is where I'm going with this. is like, and he was, we were talking and he was just talking about how he's raised, his boys were young. They were both there with him and they already knew how to hunt and fish and lived on the farm. And so I wonder if we, have we actually tried to take like families who are like generational farmers or something that still live very traditional lives and then compared to - That'd be great data. Right. And compared to like, is it more something that's happening to all of us as a species or is it because of how we're evolving and the things we're evolving and doing every single day?

58:01culturally that's playing more of a factor than it is as a species the data points all across the board however they're probably higher and more active healthier populations but generally speaking it's going down generally speaking and it's it's a lot of speculation probably environmental toxins that you can't completely so you think environmental you think uh daily activities you know they're playing they're sitting down watching tv video games netflix versus hunting fishing, carrying bales of hay. So if you took, say, 1 ,000 kids that were raised out in the middle of Montana for the last 10 years versus the middle of San Francisco, and then what would we see?

58:44Do you think we would see the same thing? We're just going to lump them in and average it, right? Yeah, because that's what we're doing is we're lumping them all together and we're averaging. And really, when you look at the average, I mean, I forgot. I saw the statistics on this. Like, literally 80 % of us live on the coast, and then the rest fill up all. sparse. The data, the best data we have suggests that it's an environmental toxin probably related to the explosion of petroleum-based plastics and products, which in the 50s started to become a bigger thing and just grew. It just grew decade over decade.

59:15Oh, gosh. And then you look at all the information around all the juice that people have been given over the past four years. What do you mean? Like the vaccines. Oh. Right. And fertility rates on the demise of that. And also the common denominator being people in Montana or even San Diego or wherever they are on a farm, like the biocircadian rhythm of the sun, being outside. Sun is information, right? Supplements are just supplements. That's what they are. If you're not getting information to literally repackage your DNA, create stem cells, if you're not out in the sun every single day for 15 to 20 minutes, your body's a battery.

59:49You're a solar-powered being. Can I tell you that I think that's actually one of the most, since we're talking about parenting and kids and stuff like that, one of the most profound things that I have seen in my son, who's going to be six now, is when I get him outside early and he plays. What a difference. A night, I mean, his behavior, his sleep, his mood. I mean, everything. Everything. Everything. I can tell. Barefoot. Yes. Electromagnetic, getting rid of the negative ions or whatever, and then the sun, building the solar callus. Let him run around and play in the dirt and the sand barefoot and mess around out there for a couple hours.

1:00:27And holy shit, is he a different child. One of the biggest psyops that I think we had in the last few decades was getting everybody afraid of the sun. But you combine that with a crappy diet and your skin is more sensitive to the sun. You are more likely to get sunburn from the sun. Skin cancer. Yeah, but it's a huge psyop. Like everybody's so scared of the sun. Cover up, put on tons of sunscreen. Oh, what's the sunscreen made of? Hormone-disrupting chemicals. Yeah. Wow. Parabans, phthalates. Exposure thing. You know, titanium dioxide. Yeah. Like a lot of these sprays. Yeah, not a good trade. Crazy.

1:01:01It's just, where did common sense go? That's all I'm saying. That's why I feel like, is it because we're all aware and we're paying attention? Because I feel like it's very obvious to me. It's not like, oh, it's kind of, or there's a correlation I've got there. No, it's very, like, I've tested days where I said, let's lay around and watch TV today and do nothing and hang out. And he is a different kid. Tantrums. Yes. At night or he's upset or he's like. 100%. And if he has that day where he's out, he plays and he's playing out there for a couple hours, getting the sun. It is a night and day difference.

1:01:33Nature's a healer. Nature's the greatest healer. We live on a federal reserve. The farm is. So all around us, thousands of acres of trees, oak trees that have been there since the beginning of time. and she goes out there and she just opens her eyes up and listens to the birds. And you could literally see it impacting her field in real time. She could be cranky before that. We haven't had to use any pills for teeth pain, for any of the teething that's going on. I mean, she's so dialed in, but it's because she's out in the sun every day. She's playing, her hands are in the dirt. She's picking up microbes everywhere.

1:02:06Her microbiome's probably loving it. She's in the greenhouse picking veggies, putting things in the soil. Like she's just a different kid. And even parents come up, they're like, what are you doing to her? That's different because she's so calm. She's so peaceful. She's so happy. People are always like, that's the happiest kid I've ever seen. She walks into a room and smiles at everybody and just dude, even when she came out of the womb, she like would make eye contact with you. And you know how kids like just kind of float around a little bit when they come out, like where I'm on planet earth now.

1:02:33She's so like just on it. You know, one thing that impressed me about Organifi and continues to is you guys have this great balance between like what's natural and then what's efficacious when you're looking at extracts or with science like how's that balance how is it maintaining that balance because supplement companies I think will go too far in one direction or the other where it's like all that like there is no standardization and it's you know and then you don't know what you're getting and then there's the no no we're going to extract the chemicals and that's how we're going to sell you it you know type of deal what's that like between you and your team in that discussion that's a shenai question okay she dials in on all that you would love to have a conversation with her yeah yeah um usually it's whatever's going to benefit the customer and whatever the data says you know is what we put into it the most what's your typical customer like what is your customer avatar what do they look like i would say 70 percent women 30 men oh is that one skewed yeah it's skewed oh like women organics, high quality yoga moms, moms that want the best for their children.

1:03:35They're the spender in the house as well. They make the decisions of wellbeing in the house. I mean, I go to farmer's markets and I'm not famous by any means, maybe like at a different school that I went to growing up. That's kind of what it feels like, but I'll go to a farmer's market or I'll walk into like a whole, like a, uh, air one or whatever. And that's where you're known. Like I'm kind of famous there, which is hilarious. Uh, but it's these powerful moms that get it. And as soon as I make eye contact with a mom and she's like, wait, I watch your videos. I buy all the Organifi for my kids.

1:04:06I already know, like she is so studied. She's educated. She's giving the best to her children. She has deep, meaningful, present conversations with the people in her life. She's just a rad human. So I actually love meeting people out in the streets. It's one of my favorite things to do. I mean, that's gotta be kind of cool knowing that because you've built the brand around a lot of that stuff that you've attracted at that customer. You guys too. I mean, you want to hang out with the people that listen to you. Yeah. That's how I think you guys feel that way. I know we do. That's definitely. And I feel that way.

1:04:35Yeah, I love that. That's one of our favorite parts. In fact, that's actually one of the exercises that we do to keep us grounded is like, you know, sometimes we get in this cave and we talk on this podcast out in the ether. Your words go out into the cave. And then every once in a while we get to meet with all the people that listen and it always reminds us, oh, this is why we do this. Like, this is cool that we're getting to meet all these people that are like us. I love thinking that and I love looking at testimonials and just reading the name, even the name of somebody and like the experience that they had with their kids or the experience that they had healing or losing weight or whatever it is and just feeling into that and how much that changes their whole entire household because they're a better person.

1:05:12They feel better. They have more energy. They're more present. I think that's what we're after here. When you look at the full SKUs, right, the whole product line, has it over this entire time been, green juice was the flagship, right? And I'm sure you do a lot of protein. Is it consistent or have you had like this product has way overtaken this one? Yes, it's had to evolve. With the onslaught of AG1, you got a company that's just a Goliath now after$100 million in funding. like they can buy up any single podcast there is i see that they try to buy us out huberman i mean you name it we are just i know and that's what i love about you loyalty they do well we are and then it's like what is it it's like 50 ingredients tiny specs no efficacy at all but the marketing is brilliant oh yeah it's crushed that yeah and people think it's one of the best because of the marketing isn't that wild how that is yeah that you know it's like how's the game it is it's that's the unfortunate part.

1:06:10It is. And he can't, you know, hate the player, hate the game kind of a thing for sure. Great. But at the end of the day, it's like when you have that type of capital, you could have a losing, you could be losing your ass on something. It doesn't matter because it's not really hurting your bank account. Yeah. Long-term they've tracked their LTV with the subscriptions. Um, so for us to answer your question directly, it's had to evolve. It's had to change. So we look for niche marketplaces that people actually need support before the market gets there. To me, that's the answer to the question he was asking earlier about Sheila Gide and Happy Drops.

1:06:42It always seems like you've done this incredible job of something that's been around forever, so it's not like you're inventing something. We're a small company. We're bootstrapped. We don't have deep pockets like that. So for us, the customer relationship is the most important. The relationship that I have with you guys, because you're customer interfacing, you're talking to people every single day, working your booty off. So that's what we look for, and it's worked well you know adam uses you guys as an example when we talk to other companies that want to work with us because you guys do such a good job of with our customers with the people we send you do such a good job with them and then they stick around and so when he talks to companies it's one of the things he wants to find out because like is this gonna be a good fit and he he i'll always hear him oh organifi does this well you guys do something that's unique to supplement company too that i there's not many that i'm aware of that do this which is you and and you've been doing this for a very long time.

1:07:33And that was you guys, and I don't know what you call them. They're like your customer service, your coaches or whatever. That's unique to you. There's not a lot of supplement companies that do that. Real people. Yeah. Coach people. Yeah. You actually have people get on the phone that will coach people how to take the supplements or is this right for me? Or, oh, maybe you should do this also. And so not, and that is like, we've always been good at being able to point people in the direction of like, oh, this is a great product. This is a good company. But then if you, and that's why I use you as an example.

1:08:00I was like, if you guys on the back end support those people and you take good care of them, we're going to have a great business relationship. You're going to be very successful. We'll be very successful. But if you think that we're going to be able to close all these people on your product and your stuff, and we don't spend time doing that. We're a podcast and we're helping people finish it. And we're going to mention the brand and we're going to talk about how great they are. But we're not going to gear our whole podcast around selling your product. You don't say, you guys got to do some shit on your back end.

1:08:26And not a lot of companies do that. No, you got to care. And I think that's longevity. That's what we were talking about earlier. It's like, if we understand the avatar, we understand the customer that's on the phone, their bio-individuality, they have different needs than you have. Everybody's different. So what can we do to make it special? What can we do to show them that it's not about just selling them one supplement? It's about creating a relationship with them long-term and building a friendship. Because you guys have great retention. Great retention. People, best in the industry. Okay, so talk about that.

1:08:54So how do you produce that? Is it just - So average retention in the supplement market is probably 60 days. whereas with SheLegit as an example, I mean, the average is probably four to five months. Wow. Which is a lot longer than most companies. Double to triple. Yeah. Wow. And we're constantly working on how do we get that to be even longer? I mean, obviously you have the outliers that I've had people buying green juice for the past decade. So there's a cohort of people that have been buying green juice for 10 years and then people that want a discount on the front end. So they buy it and then they fall off for the first 30 days or whatever.

1:09:25But the math works out. and that's the company we want to build for legacy as opposed to just a quick quick cash infusion that's awesome what do you do what do you do for yourself personally obviously you eat healthy you use good supplements what do you do for fitness um gosh i used to work out twice a day probably like you guys way back before kids now it's less is more kind of a thing i watched this guy's uh short series i loved it by the way i'm wondering why you don't do more of those because Because I think you have, and we're probably going to get comments on this right now, but I miss it.

1:09:57Because I felt like you were my guide on the side, like going through your transformation. Yeah, it was a lot, you know what, and Justin just went through it, right? So Justin did a series on hitting a PR of 315, and he documented the whole thing. Overhead press. Dude, overhead press? Which he did. He never thought it was calves, dude. No, he didn't work out his calves. Don't get us started on that. Just jump, bro. Good job, man. It was a major commitment. It was a lot. That's a lot of commitment. Yeah, it's like to do it right, I think, like I documented everything, right? So I was on my Instagram.

1:10:32It's a lot of work. And, you know, taking this conversation full circle to having a kid and stuff like that. Like, I mean, during that time, I remember apologizing to my wife and my son that, hey, daddy's going to do this for the next couple of months. So bear with me, like this is a priority. And so every day when I would, because this is our, we have to do this. This is what really makes the business go. that's like a nice to have a bonus that we were doing it's good for the business people love it they want more of it but it takes a lot of commitment outside of this to do that and so yeah a lot of my time that i normally would be spending with my son or my own time with my whatever was now dedicated to like documenting this product that's why like man when i see some of these people i'm so blessed to how we built this business and that it's really centered around this right here, which we all love to do so much.

1:11:20And it's, it's been good enough to us that we can have a living off of it because the typical Instagram influencer person that makes good money is like, man, it's like, they don't, they don't, they don't separate, they don't separate their personal life from, that's their, that is, it becomes it. And we all never wanted that. And I, and we all agreed that like, I didn't want, and so I remember you saying that on our first interview. That's right. Something like that. And so we keep it, you know, I share a lot of, we all share a lot of our personal life, but we keep a lot of it to ourselves too.

1:11:52Like I, I don't document all of it. And so that three months, why I think people eat it up is you get to see me doc you. I really documented my life. Nothing like it. Yeah. And so people ate it up because I mean, I've watched Sebum. I've watched, uh, you know, what's the other guy's name? Sam Kulik or whatever the guy's name is. And it's okay. Like it's, it's all okay. But the way you were doing it, man. I enjoyed it. And I got a lot of, I felt like the way we did it, I thought it was unique. Like that was kind of a, like a fly on the wall type. Yeah. It was cool. Yeah. Like where I was just kind of talking to myself.

1:12:23Like I thought, thought what we did was pretty cool. I wished, I wish it, uh, it supported the business more to justify doing it more often, but it's the hard part. It is. That's the hard. And that's the, and so for the listener, who's wondering why we don't, it's like, you know, it's got to make sense. Uh, the amount of effort and time that I put into that. There's so many other things that I can do within the business and the ROI is significantly greater as much as maybe the consumer, you love it. It's got to make sense to take, take away from us personally, but I feel you, you know? Yeah. I love watching that and applying it to my life because I was under the impression that I needed to work out four times a week, at least an hour every time.

1:13:02And I was just running myself into the ground. Girl, dad, less sleep, mold in the house. I mean, my lymphatic system was probably mucked up because I have the MTHFR gene mutation as well. And I got all that going on. You know what I'm saying? So it's like all these variables I had to deal with. Now it's, I would say three times a week, 30 to 45 minutes. I make sure I get at least 15 ,000 steps a day, usually on a good day is the goal. Well, that's it. You look great. Thank you, brother. Yeah. You build a good base. You've been trained for so long. It sticks around too when you build a good base.

1:13:35and it's easy it's so easy yeah because isn't that funny we need to sell that we try to sell that off on the show it's like especially if you build muscle keeping it's not hard it's so easy building it's hard keeping it yeah and i don't eat nearly as much because that's the other thing that i was just talking on my instagram the other day about if i were to like unpack the thing that i've i've i've worked on though someone asked me a question like what are you working on the most in your life or something like that i said you know the thing that i've gotten much better at in my 40s that I didn't have such a good time or wasn't very good at in my 30s, my 20s, is balancing my nutrition with what I'm doing with my activity and my training.

1:14:13Yeah. So I've always been all on or all off all the time, where now I'm very mindful, like, hey, this has been kind of a lazy week for me. I didn't get into my training as much. I didn't get my steps as much as I would. So very much so. That might be the time where I'm intermittent fasting. That might be the time I skip out on that dessert or that popcorn or the thing. I'm really good now in my 40s of like telling myself that, hey, if I want those things, I need to go earn them by moving and doing the things. And if I don't, because I get busy and life happens or I'm traveling, then I adjust the diet.

1:14:43And as simple as that may seem, it's hard to be consistent and practice that. And I've gotten better at that. I've gotten older of doing that. That's made a big hack for me too. Likewise on that. And it's more about recovery for me. So it's like getting the daily solar callus built up, getting outside in the sun, planting my feet in the grass, 30 minutes. I would choose that over lifting weights now. That's my kick right now. We have a pool and I'm like, I've been like laying out and like, I'm like, man, I haven't eaten up this much sun in so long. I feel so good. Because your inflammation goes way down.

1:15:12Your abs are going to look leaner and tighter. I feel good. I just feel better all the way around. And my workouts are meh right now, but I'm getting outside way more. And it's like, to me, that's another thing too, is I feel like the whole health sphere is so much more than just lifting iron. I mean, that's a big part. Don't get me wrong. And it's probably one of the best - You got to do it. It's one of the best ROIs of all the things that we talk about, right? Is lifting weights, eating correctly. And so those are pillars. But so is getting outside and getting in the sun. And I've neglected that a lot in the last decade or two.

1:15:44And I'm trying to be better about that. We're obsessive. We're obsessive kind of guys. And I love to lift heavy ass weights. There's no greater - I mean, if I don't lift three days, if I haven't lifted in three days, I start to feel off. Just a little depressed where it's like, what's going on? Thoughts that wouldn't affect me are now affecting me. So as soon as I pick up the iron or I'm in the gym, it's like, oh, this is my bliss spot. But it's a lot less now. Diet's plugged in. I eat when I'm hungry. So I may go all day and just have one meal. And I feel great doing that. It's like in the morning, it might be caffeine o 'clock as opposed to having breakfast.

1:16:24and i feel better than i ever have like i said my blood test showed that my inflammation was a little high cholesterol was a little high as well how often are you doing those do you do you check every three months is goal okay so every three months yeah how old are you now drew 44 okay yeah we're all the same generation yeah i thought we were the same yeah around the same age you and i are the same they're a little bit they're older than we are older guys yeah yeah doug's way the fuck older. Doug used to write a dinosaur in school. Doug's ancient, you know what I'm saying? He's going to look like the young Padawans in the room.

1:16:57Yes, he is the old wise one. He keeps us straight for sure. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

1:17:42The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a 5-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.