2639: The 5 Reasons Why People Can't Stop Fasting & More (Listener Live Coaching)

17:38Sal Di Stefano:know the truth about that though that represents less than 10 percent of the people that are

17:41Adam Schafer:motivated to do it for those reasons most people are not most 90 health no 90 because i i would be

17:46Sal Di Stefano:pro that if i had a client that was like that was telling telling me how much they're bad they're like, man, I just feel so good when I do that 24-hour fast. We're implementing it because of that reason. But that's rarely what the case is most of the time. You know, this reminds me of, too, do you guys remember how fired up we used to get early on when we started the podcast of the, you know, influencer dorks that would do all the, they were viral. There were millions of followers, and they were promoting fasting, and it was like they would crush a whole pizza. The whole page, remember that? You remember that?

18:16Sal Di Stefano:Yes. We got into it with one of those guys. I remember.

18:18Adam Schafer:One meal a day, and I can eat whatever I want.

18:20Sal Di Stefano:And he would be showing people just promoting bad habits. Terrible beat. Binge restrict. Binge restrict. I don't know. He's like 20-something years old, skinny kid.

18:30Adam Schafer:It was bulimia without the throwing up. It was totally binge restrict.

18:34Sal Di Stefano:Just such an irresponsible thing to be teaching or telling people that you can. Yeah, you can do it. Should you do it? Probably not. I think even if you saw results, it could lead to some really bad.

18:47Adam Schafer:I have seen just as many, because earlier we said it can help people to break the chains from food. I have seen just as many people become chained to dysfunctional eating through fasting. Yeah. Because it promoted this. People without this terrible dysfunction will start fasting, and then what it starts to morph into is restrict, restrict, restrict. Oh, my eating window, binge. Yeah. And I saw this so many times that I started becoming anti-fast.

19:15Sal Di Stefano:Well, this goes to my point that I said earlier, that I think that the majority of people are attracted to the wrong diet for them. And this gave the girl who ate five servings of carrots all day long permission to do that. Like that she was doing something okay. Like, oh, I can do this. Oh, I'm fasting. No, that's not healthy. No, no, not at all.

19:33Adam Schafer:And lastly, again, this is a true one. Not eating for a certain period of time, prolonged period of time, spikes catecholamines. All right, what are catecholamines? Dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine. These are chemicals that are released in fight or flight situations. They also feel good. Feel good. They feel good. Like your dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine goes up. You're hyped. You have energy. You feel sharp. Now, the evolutionary argument for this is if you go without food for a long time, your body is trying to get you better at hunting because you suck right now. Give you a boost.

20:07Adam Schafer:Yeah, you're not getting food. Yeah, go get it. Let's get you. Now, this can get addicting. this feeling, because here's what happens when you fast, especially if you do a long fast, is at first you're like, oh, I'm struggling. And then you're like, I'm hungry. And then you break through and suddenly like, oh my, you'll see people talk about this. Oh my God, I feel amazing. I feel so sharp. What they're feeling is this cocktail of drugs that's getting released called catecholamines. Now here's what happens. Here's the bad side of this, because it's not necessarily bad to spike your catecholamines.

20:35Adam Schafer:But if you repeatedly do this over and over and over and over and over again, it starts to become too much of a stress response. You get less of this spike and you actually can fall into HPA axis dysfunction as a result. As your receptors start to downregulate, you stop producing as much of those things. And then you suddenly now fasting, you feel like garbage as a result. And I've seen this, by the way, it's more in my experience. This is more common with women where they'll do this, do this, do this. And suddenly their hair's falling out and they feel like garbage. Even though we're getting adequate nutrients, it's like, you know, what's going on?

21:09Adam Schafer:But, again, this is real. If you fast, you'll probably, and I say probably because some people won't, but you'll probably get an energy boost. And then you'll say, how is this possible? I'm not eating food. It's the beauty of these chemicals that you're pumping out.

21:23Sal Di Stefano:I think the biggest bone I have to pick with fasting is, and most people that listen to the podcast are strength training. You probably come here. You obviously have heard us promoting it for so long. and in that context of lifting weights to build muscle to speed your metabolism up to then maybe in turn lose body fat or be healthier in general uh it is difficult in my experience it's already difficult it is really difficult not just personally but all the people i've trained uh really difficult to hit your protein targets optimal protein targets uh in a 24-hour window Yeah. So restricting somebody to a smaller window and then also saying, imagine like for me, I'd have to eat at a major meal.

22:06Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

22:06Adam Schafer:200 grams of protein. I'd have to eat in three hours. What am I going to do? Yeah.

22:10Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. And so, and you want, you know, you want to talk about slowing your results or your progress in pursuit of speeding your metabolism up and building muscle and building the physique you want. Well, I got a recipe for that. Don't hit your protein targets consistently, you know? And so I just think that it's terrible for that. Very few people I have met, even people that have had success with fasting, their success is just because they lost weight. They reduced calories and the weight came down, so therefore they think it was a good strategy. But then they're in this awful plateau where they're not getting the body they want.

22:45Sal Di Stefano:And they're not getting the body they want because they can't build any muscle. They can't build any muscle on that low of calories and that low of protein. And they can't do that because they've restricted themselves to a window. So it's very difficult to hit 130, 170, 200 grams of protein consistently day in, day out. Therefore, all the work you're doing in the strength training, the best MAPS program in the world. You're hamstrung it. Yeah. Isn't it reaping the benefits that it should?

23:08Adam Schafer:100%. That's one of my biggest qualms with it. You know, this brings me to the topic. I really, I just got to tell you guys, and I'm going to say it on air because I'm going to keep myself accountable. I don't want to do this series. I don't want to do this YouTube series. I do not want to do this where I get on there and publicly attack in a real way, tackle the dysfunction that I have around fitness. I don't want to do it. I'm wrestling with it. I don't want to do it. I'm trying to convince myself not to. I'm trying to, I'm coming up with ways to twist it so that it still becomes about me. And man, I was talking this morning, I went to, I did some mobility work.

23:49Adam Schafer:I'm trying to only lift a couple of days a week is what I'm trying to do right now. Um, and I've been trying that for a little while, but I went to a UFC gym. I had a short period of time. I had to come in here early, meet with Doug. And so I hopped in there, um, just to do some core and some mobility. And I ran into, um, Johnny Sebastian, our good friend, pro bodybuilder. Love him. I've been, I've been, we've known him forever. He actually worked for me back in the way back in the day. Anyway, he's, uh, he's going to compete again and he's, he's talking about tackling the same issue that I have.

24:23Adam Schafer:Right. With fitness, yeah. He's recording a series right now. And him and I were talking about this. And he's prep. He's in prep right now. Yeah. And he's like, dude, how do I do this? He's like, do I tell people everything I'm doing? I'm like, I don't know, man. And we're just going back and forth. And I'm like, how do I, because I love it. So what am I supposed to do? Not do stuff that I love? That doesn't seem right. Like, what does this look like? What does fitness look like? I'm talking personal. What does it look like for me to where it's not to glorify me? it's no longer an idol. Like, how do I do this in a way that I'm not serving this terrible idol?

25:01Adam Schafer:I don't know, man. And I don't want to do it. I really don't. Because it's going to be super raw. And I'm going to be angry the whole time.

25:10Sal Di Stefano:I think a great thing to bring up post talking about fasting, because I think the most valuable part of fasting for people is to show them their relationship that they had with food and how unhealthy it was, and it breaks those chains. In the same token, that's going to do, right? By ripping the Band-Aid off, by forcing you to not do the thing that you say you love, will also start to break those chains of the relationship that you have with exercise and admitting that it may not be the healthiest. And what's hard about that, which I understand,

25:50Adam Schafer:Well, I know that and I can admit it, but here's what's going to happen is that my workouts are going to get filmed. Every time I'm working out, Dylan is going to be filming me and I'm going to be talking about this. So there's no hiding. Now, my pride can get the better of me and I know that. So that's going to be a risk too because I'm going to be like, what's going to get the most attention? So I also need to steer clear from. But it's going to be real conversation around this. And it is easy. You guys know I'm a good sales guy. okay yeah i can sell myself really well and i could easily be like this is more of like a documentary i'm gonna be working out and i'm gonna be focusing on you know things that like mobility and health and my workouts and i'm gonna be quite honest i'm probably gonna be focused on building muscles sometimes getting stronger but i have to talk about it while it's happening and uh bro it's

26:42Sal Di Stefano:gonna be so therapeutic talk to those people that are like i yeah i was the three of us i was the first one to do this and i didn't really overthink what it was gonna look like i didn't overthink like what would be the most viral i just said i'm gonna go i'm gonna do this thing i'm gonna attach the mic to my bill and my hat and uh i'm not even gonna talk to the camera i'm like i'm not even gonna try and sell anything or over explaining i'm just gonna i'm gonna work out and as things come up in my mind i'm just gonna vocalize it yep and uh that's why that's what i'm Some people liked it. Some people didn't.

27:17Sal Di Stefano:I really didn't care if you didn't like it. You know what I'm saying? There was a lot of critiques of people. Oh, I should have done that. I was like, I don't give a shit. And that's how I think you should do it, is that the same type of attitude of like you can even and allow your freedom to go into the workout that like, I might not even know what I'm going to do today.

27:35Adam Schafer:Yeah.

27:35Sal Di Stefano:And I might change it.

27:38Adam Schafer:Yeah, you submit it and address it. It's like people want to just hang out. they want to observe like uh that inner dialogue and if you could vocalize your inner dialogue i think that would help a lot i'm going to which is why i don't want to do it yeah because it's going to be the most real uh that's why it's interesting yeah it's gonna be the most real thing i think i've ever done i think it's so interesting it's gonna be really and there's and look you know what's helping me do this is two things one i don't want to let you guys down it's a very powerful motivator good uh you guys know that yeah we put that pressure yeah i know and i don't want to let you guys down so the business could crash if you don't that's i could crash it with a series you never know uh no that's that's that's a motivator the other motivators uh i i'm getting encouraging messages from people who are saying like i'm looking forward to this i have the same issue with that you do awesome you know with fitness it's all the fitness fanatics right that struggle with this and we speak to this all the time we have callers call in all the time that struggle with this and one of the reasons why i can speak to them so well because i'm talking to myself i'm like i know what this should feel like and i can give advice real good i'm really good at giving other people advice uh but now it's like it's going to be on me so all right man i i am not looking forward to this at all it's giving me anxiety i'm i have to tell you i'm so excited

28:53Sal Di Stefano:for you i'm splitting right now i've i've enjoyed watching justins i enjoyed doing the one i did and i'm really excited to see yours and i think what it is uh a little bit different for me because ironically I'm actually not really that into fitness content so the stuff I consume is more probably business cars stuff like that I love for example my favorite business content to watch are when people make stuff Hormozy has a series where he basically has a serial entrepreneur come on and basically and the part that I love the most is watching his brain work in real time yes not what he said. Problem solving in the realness of it.

29:33Sal Di Stefano:Not like how cool the business was or how successful it was or wasn't. It's just watching someone who I have respect, his business acumen, have respect for his business acumen and then watch him problem solve in real time and just see how the... I think that's how people have a lot of respect for your fitness knowledge in your brain that I think they would love to see you handle any challenge and just how does when he when he when he's struggling they work through this they want that which i also remember you got and you guys reminded me of this when i was going through my series and i kept getting hurt and i was getting so discouraged and pissed off and you're like dude people love that more yeah they love because it humanizes you you you shit still happens to you and they want to see okay how does his brain work when that shit happens and how does he communicate and so you just need to go into completely like a blank slate like that and a lot and i think uh it will turn out much better than you think uh if you other than trying there's only one thing

30:32Adam Schafer:there's only one direction i can do and do this right and it can't be for uh it can't be for anybody but uh but god has to do it for him because if i do it for the audience uh it's really easy for me to turn into teacher sales guy uh if i do it for me we know what that looks like if i do it for you guys then it'll be for the business so i got to do it for something that keeps me straight and narrow, you know, on the straight and narrow. I'll tell you who I feel bad for. I feel bad for Dylan because I feel like he's going to get it because I'm going to get mad. Dylan's in the back looking. There's probably times I'm going to get mad at you for filming me, but I'm going to do it.

31:13Adam Schafer:I'm just going to blend in, Dylan. I'm going to tell him to turn off the camera because I'm going to be too real, but, you know, I'm talking about it now because I got the conviction. You're going to wear one of those ghillie suits? You ever see those? I got the conviction. You know what I mean? I was like, I was this morning. I went for, I went for a little walk. Yeah. After I finished with Doug and I got the conviction. I'm like, you need to keep talking about this because you're going to figure out a way to twist this. I'm like, okay, dude, I'll bring it up on the show again. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I don't like it.

31:43Adam Schafer:I don't like it.

31:44Sal Di Stefano:It's good. I think you're actually going to find it very therapeutic. I think you, I think you're going to get a lot of value from it. I look forward to talking to you after the recordings and bringing it up.

31:52Adam Schafer:I'm going to try to bring people in. Yeah. To keep it real, too. So I talked to Johnny this morning. I'd love for him to be on it as well because I know he gets it. Oh, yeah, that's great. I'm going to try having my friend Chuck on here as part of it, too, because he works out, but he's a pastor.

32:08Sal Di Stefano:I mean, anything and everything that you're using as a current resource. That's what I mean. All the people that can help me. Yeah, of course. If you're having these normal conversations or things that you're doing that's helping you through it, please, God, share it. Share it so we all get that insight. And I'm excited. I'm excited for it. I think it'll be good. You know, it's funny. Like most stuff that we've done in this business, it's like we don't tend to do anything that's like really great viral shit. It's like, you know what I'm saying? It's like we just haven't. And by the way. It's not ego-based.

32:38Sal Di Stefano:It's not like massively ego-based. But I mean, for the trainer who listens and follows us, I hope that we can continue to be a light or a positive. Like you don't have to go viral. you don't have to be the most famous person on the internet uh be yourself be real be authentic be vulnerable um and and and try and provide as much value and serve others and you will reap the benefits that's right you will if you if you come from that place and and you know what it may only be three people at the beginning and it may only be five people but over time uh you'll impact those three or five people so much more than getting millions of people paying attention to you uh no matter what you think or believe or other people tell you and that when it comes to trying to build a business that uh has purpose and meaning and a why behind it and value and is going to be successful long term that is the formula it really is and it's been distorted uh by all the fame and attention that you see people getting on the internet you know all right i'm

33:46Adam Schafer:to change directions because I'm uncomfortable. So, hey, I got, listen, I have put together the most, based back by data, the most powerful skin regeneration protocol you could possibly use. And I say natural because it doesn't require, peptides are amazing. It doesn't require peptides. Everybody doesn't have access to peptides, right? You would have to get a prescription or go gray market if you want to be risky or whatever, but you can use some compounds that you could buy over the counter. So here's, here's what it looks like. Use red light therapy, which is the most powerful thing you could do.

34:27Adam Schafer:The data on red light therapy is incredible when it comes to improving the appearance of your skin. Okay. So like Juve, our partners Juve, they're the best that we found. If you use that regularly by two or three sessions, you start to see a difference in the way that your face looks and all that stuff. Yeah. But use high dose of vitamin C and use glutathione, both of those together with the red light. Oh, my. I'm looking at the data with vitamin C and glutathione. Interesting, because of the antioxidants? Yeah, dude. Oh, man. And by the way, glutathione, vitamin C and glutathione have been used by these high-end, and they'll use like an IV.

35:04Adam Schafer:You don't need an IV. You could take vitamin C orally, and you could get liposomal glutathione. your body will absorb it as well just you have to take it for a few days for it to build up both of those their effects on the skin they're documented so you do that use a red light therapy like what we're talking about here for anybody who's interested in looking younger what we're talking about is like two weeks like you do this for two weeks you'll notice a dramatic difference

35:28Sal Di Stefano:14 days what what's that what's considered a high dose of vitamin c thousand milligrams thousand thousand milligrams which by the way people is that of each glutathione and no ah you know i'm

35:39Adam Schafer:slips my mind. Doug, look up a dose of liposomal glutathione. I don't know why it slips me. But yeah, 1 ,000 milligrams, 1 to 3 ,000 milligrams of vitamin C, which you could get a vitamin C packet and many of them contain that much. Are the chewables okay?

35:54Sal Di Stefano:Chewables fine.

35:54Adam Schafer:Yeah, yeah, chewables. Glutathione vitamins go there, right? The ones that taste like orange. The orange ones, yeah, you can do that. Orange slices. Yeah, so vitamin C, glutathione, liposomal glutathione, and red light at Juve. I'm going to try that.

36:09Sal Di Stefano:I've never tried to like, I use glutathione religiously for when I'm cold and sick and I'm trying to get better and stuff like that and same thing with vitamin C. But I've never tried to do it when I feel good and then with using the Juve light.

36:22Adam Schafer:Yep, yep. Yeah, one pack is 450 milligrams. Yeah, that'll work. So you probably do two of those if you want to go super high. But a lot of skin creams have now vitamin C and glutathione in them.

36:32Sal Di Stefano:Do you guys see, I mean, I know you go to some public, and you're starting to now, the amount of gyms now that have red light therapy? It's crazy. Because it works.

36:42Adam Schafer:It's an option. It's great to see it.

36:44Sal Di Stefano:Any of the ones that are like... Like Equinox. All higher-end ones. They for sure have it. Not your maybe Planet Fitness, Fitness 19 with your$19 membership type of deal. But if you have a nicer spa club type... All of them I've seen have now red light therapy areas which is really cool interesting to see you know how much that's

37:07Adam Schafer:changed doug i want you to pull up a picture i got to show you guys something that i learned just today i just figured this out today okay uh i'm gonna send you a picture doug of uh one of the characters from toy story and i don't i'm not gonna you old toy story this is what justin brought up no no no he's okay no no i'm gonna say i text that doug i'm gonna text it to you right now i brought up the new villain yeah post it no no no this you'll recognize it i don't know It doesn't have a name. It's not a main character, but as soon as he pulls it up, this just, okay, so pull up the picture, Doug, and - Is it the spork?

37:41Adam Schafer:No. So you guys remember the scene where that annoying ass neighbor kid finds - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:49Sal Di Stefano:And he blows and tears their limbs off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:51Adam Schafer:And then he leaves the room and all of his, like, monstrosity - Come to life and stuff. Yeah, his little Frankenstein toys come out. I don't know which actor that kind of looked like him, dressed like him for Halloween. Okay, watch. Look at this picture. Because I just learned this today. So how old is toys? Remember this one? Oh, yeah. Remember she walks out? Yep, yep, yep. Okay. So for people who aren't watching, there's like three toys that come out. And there's one that has like, it looks like Barbie legs. And it looks like a fishing pole. Yes. And it's coming out and the kid's freaking out.

38:19Adam Schafer:Right, right, right. The toys are freaking out. Okay. Do you know what that is?

38:23Sal Di Stefano:Other than Barbie legs and a fishing pole? Yeah. What it's supposed to be?

38:25Adam Schafer:Yeah. Do you know what? It's an inside joke with the Pixar animators.

38:28Sal Di Stefano:No way.

38:29Adam Schafer:That's a hooker.

38:30Sal Di Stefano:That's a hooker. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

38:33Adam Schafer:Like a dad joke. No way. It's a hooker. Of course it is. I just learned this today on social media.

38:41Sal Di Stefano:I don't know why. I get a kick out of trying to – Disney does this all the time, too.

38:46Adam Schafer:Yeah, because, you know, their artists are like – it's for them, right? They're like, watch this. Nobody got it. I didn't get it. Of course not. No, I mean, it's kind of – It's a little bit of a stretch, but, yeah. It's a freaking hooker, dude. I was dying when I saw that.

38:59Sal Di Stefano:That's clever.

39:00Adam Schafer:yeah i wonder how many of those are out there i just i'm my what i was just saying right now

39:03Sal Di Stefano:i was like i bet there's so many like hidden gems like you know sure this is the neat part of the internet now like we're like that's something you would never figure that out or find that out because even the person gets lost yeah it gets lost and you were in translation or whatever but for the the internet is you know it has capable capabilities of something going viral overnight by one person and so now we don't know little easter eggs yeah that's the funny thing

39:26Adam Schafer:You haven't heard much about that. Like, they used to be huge, like, in the 90s. All movies. You go back through, and you find all these little Easter eggs. Or, like, the way they shot it, like, for instance, the cheesecake would be facing up. Or then the next shot, it's facing down. And so you see all these inconsistencies. You know, dorks on the internet would just go crazy. Well, I know there's the easy ones. Like, we were just watching the animated Lilo and Stitch. Because the live-action one just came out, which is actually really funny. It's really good. but we were watching the animated one and there's a scene it's real quick where she's in her bedroom and in the back there's a poster of another disney cartoon so they do that you know that kind of stuff all the time yeah yeah super funny so uh i got a story to bring up uh with for you you'll like this one justin of this really crazy thing that happened this accident that happened to this guy and um it's pretty wild so this dude fell i'm going to read you the the article in New Zealand this guy what was he doing?

40:25Adam Schafer:He fell between the cab of his truck and the trailer behind it and he landed on an air hose the nozzle so he sat on it now it didn't go up his anus because at first I read this I'm like oh it's one of those where he's first thing I thought where he goes to the hospital he's like oh I don't know what happened actually I trained this one doctor and he told me a story of how a guy had to get a cucumber removed from his he blamed it on the he said he slipped in the shower stop it I'm like you're making a salad stop it but anyway it didn't go into his anus it entered into his glute and it was an air hose so it continued to pump air at the rate of 100 pounds per square inch into his glute yes dude you know what it did it literally blew air into his body and it separated the fat from his muscle and he felt it come all the way up until his friends heard him screaming and they were able to shut it off oh my god yeah dude it literally inflated it literally inflated half his body so this is so

41:34Sal Di Stefano:weird so he landed obviously something sharp enough to penetrate into his butt yep and then and the thing was already going yeah and it's high pressure it's one of those high pressure

41:44Adam Schafer:hoses yeah and it literally blew air and into his body and it and they're like miraculously didn't cause anything to explode out oh my god but it literally filled him so it wasn't like the cartoons where they just turned to a balloon no it caused a lot of damage because it separated the fat from his muscle as the air went in he he didn't have the capability to pull it out he he was i don't know if he was screaming he couldn't move it was too much and so they had They go off and his buddies went and shut it off. I know, bro. I read the article and I was like, oh, my God. What a terrible accident, bro.

42:21Sal Di Stefano:That is crazy. That is so crazy. Terrible accident. I want to hear who had the teen dating thing. That was Justin.

42:27Adam Schafer:Yeah, I was, you know, because I wanted to bring that up because this is kind of the phase I'm in. And I listen to you guys a lot with your young kids. You get bored. Yeah, because I'm like, I'm not there. No. But there's just new challenges. and I'm interested, especially with my oldest, and he's like. He's 15 or 14. He's 15.

42:46Sal Di Stefano:I love, by the way, just so you guys know, I love hearing, even though I'm not in that phase, because it gives me a lot to think about well before I get there. You guys could fuck it up, so I don't fuck my kid up. Learn from my mistakes. Yeah, please. So I love hearing what you guys do. I got a lot of those, brother.

43:00Adam Schafer:Yeah, and it's tricky because, too, I want him to experience dating and I want him to kind of figure all these things out. But it's interesting to kind of watch and observe and not intervene and not like overcoach or like, you know, get too involved. And so I've been kind of doing a little bit more of observing. And then maybe when he asks, I'll kind of give him some tips and cues. Yeah. Like the last and he's had maybe I want to say three or four that girls that he was trying to date since he kind of shifted to this new school. And he's been kind of meeting new people and stuff. And the last one, like he was, it was his friend.

43:42Adam Schafer:And so, you know, they kind of were friends for a while and had a good relationship on that level, but then decided that they should try to be boyfriend, girlfriend and went through that whole thing. And then he found out his, so this girl started getting pressure from her friends. And this was about the one month mark. and now i didn't i wasn't aware of this and i don't know if you guys have heard of this this is like a new thing but like so tiktok is really like invading a lot of the culture in terms of the overall zeitgeist of like how you do things like so now they're creating like these standards of of you know after one month he should be talking to you this much per day he should be taking you you know to these kinds of places he should be committed you know on this type of a level and there's all these weird like rules and and and so this poor girl was getting like pressure from her friends and then conveying that to him yeah he's like look like i'm full-time student also like he's working um at becoming better at gymnastics and so he's he trains like four or five times a week and so you know he's busy he's like i'm busy i want to hang out but also you know like i'm not going to stop doing this like in in so there's just no compromise there and so that just dissipated and i was proud of him for for you know yeah having that standard withholding that um i just thought that was kind of crazy like the the pressure on the 15 year old level uh that yeah because teens need way more pressure yeah i know i'm like when it comes to

45:19Sal Di Stefano:crazy interesting i didn't even know that was a thing yeah you know i i've been uh getting into

45:24Adam Schafer:a lot of the data around uh you know relationships uh outside of marriage and the data is the opposite of what these kids are being taught it's the exact opposite bro like casual sex uh causes nobody's happier from it nobody girls especially are not happier from it but they are encouraged

45:44Sal Di Stefano:they're encouraged that this did you guys hear did you guys and you guys i forgot this was right before vacation and i never shared this on the podcast oh my god you have to listen to the feminist debate i saw that on this that's what i'm referring to did you watch the whole thing i watched like half of it oh i watched the whole thing so good i said two in the morning katrina katrina was like she's like oh my god she wakes up and she's like you still i was like yeah i got sucked in it was such a good great dialogue yeah i mean three three brilliant women uh all consider themselves feminist yeah uh from different perspectives and talking about the whole journey of feminism all the plus and minuses and debating that amongst each other uh they all uh spoke to each other well and respected very good good healthy debates on there and to your point that you're making right now this was one of the things that was in a little bit in contention that uh it was really i mean i i can't uh recommend this is a great listen for everybody it was on Diary of the CEO it was Erica Komisar and I forget the other two girls because we had Erica so I know her but whoa what a good conversation yes really really highly recommended yeah highly highly recommended very very intelligent brilliant women breaking down and debating this and I just loved how well they all communicated I like what Jordan Peterson says

47:04Adam Schafer:around that it's like when you don't take another person seriously in a relationship dating or whatever you are simultaneously also not taking yourself. Oh, yeah. You know? Absolutely. Yeah, because the culture says, like, you got to date a lot. You got to test drive each other. Then you got to live together. You got to find out if you're compatible sexually. And the culture says that, and it teaches you all that. And the data doesn't match that. It just doesn't. The data shows that the most satisfied relationships, including sexually, are older couples who've been together forever, forever who have had very few partners the the best ones reporting of course this is general information right there's always cases outside of this uh were the ones where that they were the only partners that they ever had um so and and i wish that was taught more not like in a shameful way because as a teenager you got all these hormones and you know i know how hard that is but i wish it was taught like well here's what this is what actually the data shows that's what's tricky because yeah i know that is and that's the optimal ideal um and that's what you know you you want to have those kind of like standards and parameters of like hey you don't have to you know go the way of the world you don't have to do the what's expected but at the same time like they have to come to those conclusions themselves and you have to be able to model that but um two it's like it's difficult it it's difficult because just like everything else like having to kind of turn them loose and then yeah and then like when do you like allow them to interact or where do you put like boundaries and parameters on and it's like late at night it's like you you find environments where i'm like this is going to be a problem and that's where i like sort of start drawing lines of like environments parties my wife is reading this book i'm so sorry i don't know the title of it it was so good and it talked about the different stages of parenting and the teenage years is a coaching stage so when they're real young it's like don't do that do this yeah so much more strict yeah when they're teenagers hopefully by then you've built such a relationship yeah to where you're coaching it's all conversation they come to you so i was having a comment otherwise you get too overbearing oh yeah that's already happening i guess i'm throwing out these are all the hypotheticals that go through my yeah yeah of course you know i was i was going to comment on

49:25Sal Di Stefano:the the parenting dilemma that you have that we all have right as as a parent of like you know where do I insert myself? Where do I tell them or coach or whatever the case may be? And it reminds me of what I teach a lot with sales, the difference between a good closer and a great closer. And when you are trying to get your kid to do something, you're closing them on your ideas, right? You're selling them on why they should or shouldn't do whatever the thing is. And sure, as parents, we can go in there and tell them what to do or point out what they did wrong, but you're far more effective if you can pull them in and get them to ask you questions around that.

50:01Sal Di Stefano:And so I think about that a lot of, you know, obviously I'm more at the phase of telling because of my kids so young, but I do know that there will become a transition where it's like, my goal then becomes, can I get him to ask me? Cause if I can just get him to ask me, then I can share with him my own experience with the studies, say all the things. And I think that's just far more effective to persuading them to make the right decision. This book was really

50:26Adam Schafer:good because it says that these different stages, your kid's going to move through them, whether you like it or not. So they're going to be in the coaching phase. And if you haven't moved out of the, like, I'm going to tell you what to do phase, it's, I mean, the key is this, my wife says this all the time, that the most important thing with your kids is your relationship with them. It's more important than anything else, because you're, you're going to know your kids way longer as an adult than you will as a child yeah so if you build a good relationship with them that's going to last forever yeah if they come out of your house feeling like i'm free i'm out of this tyranny or worse uh nobody loved me yeah um you've lost you've lost so along those lines i learned

51:03Sal Di Stefano:something else here i learned something that i was doing wrong um with my parenting that i was i love when my paradigm gets shattered on something and it well i have a habit of when uh you know, Max gets frustrated or he's trying to tell me something he wants, you know, and he's starting to whine or get, you know, frustrated with that is I say I'd give him the prompt. Use your words. Use your words. Use your words. And I'm trying. I thought what I was doing was, you know, trying to help him communicate and find the right words. And I thought I was doing the right thing. What? And I follow this page that does really cool stuff and basically the neuropsychology of raising children.

51:42Sal Di Stefano:And to your point about their stages in the early stages is telling them later on becomes coaching. And I'm obviously still on the telling him stage. And what I'm doing by telling him, use your words, is I'm actually training his brain to actually go, oh, I whine first, then my dad prompts me this.

52:02Adam Schafer:He's relying on your prompt.

52:03Sal Di Stefano:Yes. So he's relying on me to do that when in actuality, what I should be doing is actually giving him the words.

52:09Adam Schafer:You model it. Yes. It's called modeling. Yes.

52:11Sal Di Stefano:so he has a he's he's frustrated he's trying to communicate something like that and instead of me trying to encourage him to use his words i give him the words yep you know yet daddy please you know daddy please can i do that like and tell him literally give him the words and then we cut out the whining phase because part of the whining that that's just a natural reaction of him trying to find those words trying to do that and me prompting again like uh use your words and he he gave other examples of what some, cause not everybody says, use your words. I know that's the one I use, which is why it hit home for me.

52:43Sal Di Stefano:Um, but what you should do in those situations is you literally just repeat the statement. So good. It does.

52:49Adam Schafer:My wife does this so well. So like an example would be like, my kid would be like, Oh, I want another lollipop. And then what you do is you, you, instead of telling them you model it. So, but Bob, can I please have another lollipop? And then you give it to them or, or you answer the question and they just start to, and then what they do is they repeat it. Yes. It's weird.

53:07Sal Di Stefano:they'll just all of a sudden say it and then they skip the whining piece and so uh great great hack isn't that cool i love i mean my favorite stuff to read is neuropsychology i'm and i'm fascinated with uh children's neuroscience right now uh and i think that's just and i've loved as i've read and come across some of the stuff as as i watching uh my apply it and then seeing it um you know unfold is is really cool it's really cool to see that you know we do have a lot um I know genetics play a big role and I know every kid is different and all those things. But I mean, we influence a lot. I don't know what the breakdown is, nature versus nurture.

53:50Sal Di Stefano:But I definitely, I believe that. It's not a little bit. Yeah, I believe we have a lot. I believe a lot. And I think a lot of us as parents like to tell ourselves that, oh, well, they're just that. Or, oh, it's just this way when it's like, I mean, they're trying to figure it all out. They're just these little sponges running around. And yes, some of them tend to react certain ways faster or need more of this or less of that. But all in all, you are shaping that.

54:17Adam Schafer:You know what's crazy about this too? Again, going back to the data with this, two things are important for a child, especially when they're young. But as they get older is love and structure. And if you take one of those out, the results are worse. So it's just love. It's worse. You know what the worst is? Just structure. No love. that produces really bad results if you grow up in a house where there's no love and it's all discipline yeah oh that's actually one of the worst well this is where i think this is where

54:44Sal Di Stefano:that saying comes from love conquers all yeah i mean it's such a like now i mean uh you know bless my wife's heart i mean this is where i've learned so much from her like she comes from that place really well like like that's what we do first like we we come from love love love love first and then all the other you want to hear another crazy study this is related to religion

55:03Adam Schafer:but I think it applies. The kids that are most likely to follow in the faith of their children, what do their parents do? They've got studies on this. You know what it is? It's parents who apologize and repent. When you're a parent and you mess up and you go to your kid and you say, Hey, look, I'm sorry. That's a great - I got really mad. I'm sorry I screamed. That's what you do. Well, because then they can accept a repentant God. And you maintain conversation. You maintain that kind of relatability and accessibility. Otherwise, you're not accessible. And that's how it was for me growing up. It's hard when it's always being told to you.

55:42Adam Schafer:and you don't really have that kind of invitation. Because if you are admitting my faults and here's how I could have handled it better. You gain respect. You don't lose it. You gain respect, yeah. They want to come to you and explain more.

55:57Sal Di Stefano:That reminds me. So I don't know if I shared that. The John Deloney interview that he had with the girl that I know we've talked about many times. She has that great TED Talk. Her big viral TED Talk is the one you're communicating right now. Oh, Dr.

56:10Adam Schafer:Becky.

56:10Sal Di Stefano:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. John Deloney's interview with her was phenomenal, but that her big Ted talk is, it's one of the most powerful things that we can do as parents.

56:19Adam Schafer:It's crazy if you think about it because you're not perfect. Like, I don't think anybody thinks that, well, if you do, then you're a narcissist, but nobody's perfect. Your kid knows you're not perfect. Everybody knows this. I can look back on my parents. You're really smart. So, so why don't you show them that humility? It is so.

56:35Sal Di Stefano:It doesn't reduce your authority. It's so powerful. It is something, I mean, I watched the Ted talk a long, long time ago and it's something that we've modeled in our house. And I watch Max do it. Like he does it. He makes mistakes. You know what he probably also does?

56:50Adam Schafer:He probably, because I see this with my two little ones. If my younger one like hits my older one or vice versa and they're super mad and then the other one apologizes, they accept it right away. Right away. Because usually that doesn't happen. Little kid's like, I don't care if you're sorry, you hurt me. Right away my son will say, it's okay, thank you. And then they're over it.

57:10Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

57:10Adam Schafer:And why did they learn that? Because mom and dad apologize all the time for when we mess up. When we mess up.

57:16Sal Di Stefano:Dude, I have, speaking of our kids and stuff like that. So this is my first one. I'm sure you guys, I wonder if you guys remember your first. So my son is learning and knows how to play a game that took me back to my childhood. That was absolutely one of my favorite games I ever played. And he now knows how to play. So what a cool game. Guess who? Oh, yeah. I love Guess Who. Really? You just start playing that? Bro, that's our number one game? Yeah, well, he's good enough that he can beat me. Like, this is the first, like, he's never been out. He, like, I introduced that game probably two years ago, and it was like, we weren't playing the game.

57:52Sal Di Stefano:Let's be honest. We were looking at the characters, and we weren't playing the game. He weren't playing the game now. Like, where right now, before he goes to bed now, we play two or three games before bed, and he beat me three out of three games last night. So I absolutely love that he's able to beat me. And I haven't had that yet. We have not been able to play something that he is there cognitively enough that he could actually beat me at something. And so, you know, watching him do that. And then I had forgot that was a game that I loved playing as a kid. I was obsessed with that game. And so seeing him playing it and doing it and then doing it with him is like such a blast to do that.

58:28Sal Di Stefano:And they have. So if you don't know this, like the guess who did collaborations with everything you could think of. Oh, so there's more. Oh, bro. Because I haven't used the same one. Oh, bro. So I just bought, for his birthday is coming up, we already have Guess Who Mario. So it's all the Mario characters. Okay, that's enough. I got to get these. I just bought Guess Who Star Wars, because that's the other thing we're into. So it makes it even more fun, because he's obsessed with the characters from Mario. And so it's fun to watch him do that.

58:57Adam Schafer:All right, I got to talk to you guys about some testimonials about Z-Biotics. The testimonials that come in from our listeners who use Z-Biotics is hilarious. Yeah, yeah. I haven't read those in a while. I won't drink ever again without Z-Botics. That's what I keep saying. That was me. I will never drink again without Z-Botics, which takes me to this. I don't know why Z-Botics hasn't done this. Why aren't they going to bars?

59:19Sal Di Stefano:They are. They are in some. Are they? Yeah, yeah. I actually saw. Because that's money. Dude, I don't know if you saw this in our forum. I would have been handing them out like hotcakes. Somebody in our forum just tried it recently for the first time, and they were like, oh, my God. And then, of course, underneath it were all the other people that were like, yeah, me too. It's like everyone started going on. and then somebody made that comment of like, oh man, I wish there were the bars. And then people started posting like, oh no, they're in this one. Because it's money for the bar. They're not in a lot, but I know they're in a couple places.

59:46Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, buy it and then you drink

59:47Adam Schafer:and then you feel better. So you probably enjoy yourself a little bit.

59:50Sal Di Stefano:You would think from a bar, it would be a brilliant strategy because it doesn't make you drink any less. No, you feel better the day after. For them, it's in their best interest to do that. But I don't know why that hasn't been like a massive campaign to try and get in there. I don't know what the conflict maybe is.

1:00:06Adam Schafer:Probably just time and energy because they're so focused on product development and the science. I think what I would think. You have to really get in there and talk to people.

1:00:15Sal Di Stefano:So my theory, okay, just my business brain says it's coming from a place of scarcity. And just like some marketing people that we know and stuff like that, they look at something like that and they go like, that's$13 they didn't spend on a$13 drink. And so it's taking. Oh, the bar?

1:00:31Adam Schafer:Yes. Oh, that's not going to do that. Yeah, I guess you're right. You're probably right. That's exactly how. Why would anybody spend$13 on this and they're not going to buy him another drink? I see.

1:00:38Sal Di Stefano:So, and then, you know, oh, the average person only has$26 in their pocket. There's a good chance they would buy two drinks for$13, but now they have to buy a Z-Biotic and then a drink that's less money we make. The bar is going to make more money.

1:00:48Adam Schafer:That's what I think.

1:00:48Sal Di Stefano:I mean, yeah, I agree too. But people operate from that logic a lot, you know, marketing people.

1:00:54Adam Schafer:I think you could sell it at a bar. Hey, take this. That's your pre-alcohol drink. Would you like a pre-alcohol drink with your drink?

1:01:00Sal Di Stefano:I mean, that's you selling it. I think if they sell it individually,

1:01:03Adam Schafer:way i think it sells justin's right though it's gorilla market he worked in a bar and that's what it is right you want to get stuff in a bar you got to go to each one get in there well yeah all

1:01:09Sal Di Stefano:the bars they're not going to pay attention to you what are those girls called they're like they do that cocktail waitresses no no no no no what are you talking about no every bar you've ever been to or club there's always um oh that like works for one of the companies there's always like you know like smirnoff yes smirnoff and there's two hot girls and they're passing out shots of it and like that's that's and they're promoting it yes they're promoters but what are And they also use cocktail waitresses to do that. Yeah. So promoters. Yeah, promoters. I guess the promoters. Yeah. It's normally people outside of the bar.

1:01:40Sal Di Stefano:I told you back in the day, like even Starbucks. Yes, promo girls. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, yeah. That's a good thing. Sure. I don't know the title. It was before your time. Sorry, ladies. How far back? That far back. I'm old school.

1:01:53Adam Schafer:You're supposed to be our referee. Yeah, come on, guys. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, they would literally come in and give us free product. And so as you get free product, then they kind of have a trial run. And we had this with Bailey's and we had this with even Starbucks was doing a run where they had like their liqueur they just came up with. And they wanted to test it out. And it's like, so you give these little shots of it and we would make drinks and they teach us kind of how to make drinks with it. So there was a little bit of like they'd come in and kind of like teach you all of like, you know, what it all entails and like how to make them and all this stuff.

1:02:29Adam Schafer:and then come back a month later and see how it went, like how the customers liked it, all this stuff. And then we would decide whether or not we'd carry it if it was popular enough. And so that was kind of like the process.

1:02:43Sal Di Stefano:I also think part of the problem is that Z Biotics is probably afraid. It's a lot of free product they've got to give. They're a startup company, and so that's a lot of money. They don't give a lot of free product money. But I tell you what, if I think - You're going to get customers like that. This is how I would do. What I would do is I would just chalk it up. We're going to lose$100 ,000 on product, whatever that number of Z-Biotics is. And it's like for the next three months or whatever, even a month, we're going to go every Friday, Saturday night. You know how bars, they intentionally line people up to make it look so good.

1:03:15Sal Di Stefano:Oh, just hand them out on the line. Literally, just hand them all out to everybody. Like, drink this before you drink your drink. This is why he's the business guy. And then you literally just chalk it up that that was a$100 ,000 investment. We gave it all away over the course of however long. It's a full-on marketing campaign. and then let's just see what happens and i bet you to your guys's point that like you do it with there's because i don't know what the percentage of people because we have some people that are like oh i didn't really notice a difference but then you have people that are like oh my god that's the vast majority yeah nobody ever says anything negative it's always like i didn't really notice a difference or it's oh my god and i would say most people go oh my god oh i hate it massive uhst patrick's day yeah like do it on a holiday when you know everybody's getting to like as mini bars I possibly could.

1:03:56Adam Schafer:And like it almost like, yeah, cause then it would be memorable because most people get way too out of hand on like certain holidays like that. And it's like, you know, if you can, you can provide that ahead of time, it'd be like, they would remember that. For sure. Most children's multivitamins are just candy and they don't have the right nutrients or enough of the nutrients to make a difference for your kids. Look, if you want to give your kids candy, that's up to you. But if you want to give your kids a multivitamin because you want them to be healthy. You don't want them to have any nutrient deficiencies, which is so common nowadays in children.

1:04:30Adam Schafer:Use Haya. These are multivitamins that are not full of sugar and crap, but they have the nutrients that your kids need. This is the only multivitamin for kids that we promote here on Mind Pump. Try them out. Get 50 % off your first order. Go to HayaHealth.com. That's H-I-Y-A Health.com forward slash Mind Pump. Again, that gets you 50 % off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Brad from North Carolina. What's up, Brad? How you doing, Brad? Hey, what's going on, guys? How can we help you? Hey, thanks for having me back on. Quick question for you today. My ribs, lower ribs, have kind of always stuck out more than I think most people's.

1:05:07Adam Schafer:And I always just kind of chalked it up to genetics. My dad has it. It looks like my son, his does that as well. And the leaner I've gotten over the years, it's become more noticeable. And lately, I've heard people refer to it as rib flare. And maybe that it is correctable and actually fixable. So just curious. No. Yeah. It's not really, you can't do much for it, but you can strengthen the muscles that support the rib cage, like the intercostals, the serratus, strengthen your core. Typically, I mean, unless it's really bad, it doesn't, it doesn't produce a functional issue. It's just an aesthetic thing.

1:05:42Adam Schafer:Now it can get really, really bad. But that, that's, I believe it's called what's pectus covertum when it can be really where the rib cage actually caves in at the top as well and causes rib flare. And that's a whole different thing. But there's not much you could do at your age to change the shape of your rib cage with exercise or anything like that. It's pretty much that.

1:06:02Sal Di Stefano:I feel like mine got a lot better as I got older. I just developed my core. Like it was, I had this, my left side, just my, you would see my left rib, bottom rib poking out when I got lean. And it was like that since I was a kid. but over years of like really just working on posture and core and building the core area I felt like really did that so it's helped like it's I can I forever can tell like if I if I feel like my my abdominal area I can feel my rib cage on my left side feels like it's just pokes out a little more on that one side and it used to be really obvious when I was a kid it's not so much that as I've gotten older and I just think that's because I've built a lot of muscle around it that it doesn't show as much.

1:06:44Sal Di Stefano:And I think that's probably the best advice. And I mean, it's not causing any problems, right? You don't have pain from it or discomfort or anything like that. It's just, it's more aesthetic, right?

1:06:53Adam Schafer:Yeah, for the most part, I used to surf a lot and that was always pretty sore afterwards just from laying on your board all day. Yeah, because you're pressing on it. I mean, if you look at the rib cage, right? So this, you know, starts at the spine, comes around, attaches there at the sternum. In between the ribs is connective tissue and muscle. and so to an extent you can strengthen that and you know of course work on posture and stuff like that and that can help a little bit change the shape but it's not uh this radical change now if you're a child you can definitely have influence over the development uh of your rib cage because the everything's still growing still malleable everything's still quite malleable but as an adult not really um not a lot uh but i i would say like things like things that wouldn't hurt to work on it no like working on thoracic mobility uh um you know working on rotation strengthening the core you know dumbbell pullovers with deep breath in intrinsically bracing yeah that kind of stuff can make a difference in terms of stability gotcha anything specific on building maybe up the obliques kind of to hide it a little bit or uh rotational exercises are great man yeah okay yeah any anything that has resistance with rotation is going to be great for developing them and then suitcase case carries will also help strengthen the lateral stability and help build that out.

1:08:13Adam Schafer:So like, Ben presses too. Ben presses. Do you have our program old time strength? That'd be a great program. No, I don't. Yeah. Oh, that'll build up your. That's a great one. Let's send that to you. Cool. Yeah. That'd be great. I just finished aesthetics. or excuse me, anabolic. Yeah. So old time strength is very different. Great one to follow up. This is how. It'll address a lot of those needs though. Yeah. Especially obliques and QL and all that. Yeah. sweet i appreciate it guys you got it all right thank you thanks y 'all back in the day i had this

1:08:46Sal Di Stefano:really bad as a kid yeah i mean even as a young protruding out yeah yeah i mean i still i can still feel it to this day yeah it's like but i have as as i worked on posture yep and i built a lot of muscle around it you don't you guys don't notice i do still i can still feel it uh i know so We call you ribby when I was young. It was actually a big insecurity of mine. That's why right away I get it because it would bother me. When I was lean and I'd be on the beach and stuff, you'd just see that left side. You'd see that bottom of my rib just poking out. It didn't bother me other than the look of it.

1:09:22Sal Di Stefano:You know what I'm saying? That's what bothered me.

1:09:23Adam Schafer:Back in the day, they would sell the dumbbell pullover as a rib-expanding exercise to give you a big rib cage because for some reason they prized the big rib cage to make you look bigger. And so that's how they sold pullovers. That's how Arnold sold it. That's how all the bodybuilders in the 60s and the 50s and 40s is why they did them. And there may be some truth to that because you can get so tight with the intercostals that your rib cage doesn't move and flex very well when you breathe in or do anything else. But it's really just about working on mobility and how much that'll actually change the shape.

1:09:55Adam Schafer:I don't think it's a ton. Our next caller is Rachel from Florida. Hi, Rachel. Hi, Rachel. So long time no see. um my husband and i made the pilgrimage out to visit you guys back in 2022 when you hosted the live events at your studios we were some of the vips so it's been a long time but it was great meeting you guys then and great to talk to you again thank you rachel yeah um so i will jump in well first of all thank you for everything that you do you guys are the best but i think you already know that so um i'm gonna dive right in and i was rereading my question and i thought it kind of didn't make a lot of sense.

1:10:34So I'm just going to kind of condense it down. I am what I would consider a pretty experienced lifter. I've been lifting for 10 years. I've run all the MAPS programs, literally every single one except for PED and I think MAPS Anabolic Advanced. So I've done it all. I try to change it up, you know, do more of what you're not doing. And I feel like I've stalled probably the last couple of years when it comes to building muscle. And I know that something that just happens as you lift longer and longer, it's harder and harder to add muscle. And I get that, but I'm just wondering, I guess, if it really comes down to, in the end, more programming or more diet when it kind of gets to be that level where you've been lifting for a long time.

1:11:21You're mixing it up, but you're just kind of on repeat a little bit, if that makes sense. And I just don't know how to move the needle or what would move the needle more. doing more of kind of a bulk and focusing more on diet or focusing on programming or both. I just want your opinion.

1:11:37Sal Di Stefano:Well, you, because you already do a really good job on the programming, that's probably not where it's at. And I'm looking at, cause you gave us more information about where your calories are at. I, my thing would be, you probably need to push the bulk a little harder. Uh, and, and that would be where it's at and get comfortable with that. That's, that's what happens to a lot of my experienced female clients that are in the kind of a similar boat as you are, is that can I, you know, push myself to a calorie intake that I've never done really consistently for long enough to break through that? I don't like the way I'm looking because I'm getting bigger or bulkier and then not reversing out.

1:12:17Sal Di Stefano:I would think that that's where the answer lies for you. Now, granted, I think you're in incredible shape, but if you were saying, hey, I really want to build more, then I think that's where the answer lies is more in the nutrition and pushing the calories, but simultaneously moving the program. So if you, if you do tend to lean more to, are you more like of a MAPS aesthetic or a MAPS anabolic girl? Well, whichever one you are, I'm going to maybe steer you into a program that's different, quite a bit different than that. Like maybe old timey or strong, and then really push the calories and push them for a while.

1:12:49Adam Schafer:Yeah. And here's Adam's on point a hundred percent. Cause as I'm reading your question that you wrote in your diets dialed, your average 1800 to 2000 calories a day. You're 20 % body fat. You have a bit of a fear of gaining body fat. Um, so it depends on the person, but in your case it's diet. Now, if you really want to see some gains, if you want to see some gains, someone who's experienced like you, um, what I would do is I would have you do maps, anabolic advance that have you bump your calories by about three to 400 calories. Okay. So really, so you would go to like 2 ,500, do you think? 2 ,400, at least that,

1:13:25Sal Di Stefano:I think at least that. I'm looking at your, I mean, you're in good shape. You've been training for a long time. I mean, if you were my client, I'd have you up to 3000 plus calories by now. Like you could, yeah. Unless you're sedentary and I don't know, unless you're somebody who just doesn't move all day long, but you don't look like somebody who doesn't move all day long. I'm actually a personal trainer. And so I move a ton. And I think that might sometimes be what I don't take into account. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. If you're training clients and you're moving around that much, plus you train the way you train, those are low calories.

1:14:01Sal Di Stefano:It's not unhealthy. It's good. Obviously, you've maintained a great, healthy physique. But if we want to put on some muscle, I've got to get you up. I bet you could support 3 ,000 calories.

1:14:10Adam Schafer:Yeah. Well, you're 20 % body fat. How tall are you and how much you weigh, if you don't want me to ask you? Yeah. No, I'm 5 '2", and I weigh about 130 consistently. Yeah. I mean, just out of sensitivity to your fear of gaining body fat, I mean, you could start with 400 calories. bump and then again, halfway through bump it again. And I think you're just going to see gains. I think you're just going to see strength and muscle. I think MAPS at a bulk advanced, a great program to follow while doing that. And I think you're going to blow yourself away. And I'm curious to, I guess another slight fear that I have, and I've read a lot on part of the forum and I read all the time on that and I am 43 years old.

1:14:46So I don't have any real symptoms of perimenopause or dear God, there's so much out there when the hormones start to change. and I get a little bit fearful that if I were to bulk and add some body fat, which I completely understand is just a part of bulking, like you're never going to get away with not adding a little bit, I guess I would be fearful that it would be harder to get rid of that body fat once you wanted to kind of do a cut and reveal that muscle, just simply the fact that I am a little bit older. Right now I don't have a problem with that, but I obviously am kind of under eating.

1:15:18Adam Schafer:So two things, two things, too low of calories is much more likely to trigger menopause than too high of calories in an active person who strength trains. Okay. So if you want to trigger hormone changes that are more perimenopausal, what you do is you over-train and you under-eat. And that'll stop your period. That'll cause lots of different things to happen. So that's number one. Number two, you know, if you bump your calories 400 calories, you're not going to gain all this crazy body fat and then be like, oh, my God, what did I do? That's not going to happen. Yeah, you're going to have plenty of time to assess what's going on.

1:15:49Adam Schafer:And I'm going to tell you what's going to happen. You're just going to get stronger. Yeah. You're just going to get stronger and you're the muscle. That's right. And you're going to gain some muscle. Awesome. Okay. Yeah. I think that was my primary. And I kind of knew the answer again. Most people already know when they call in, but I just wanted to, one other question too, I guess with the fear of doing all, again, I'm a coach. I get the benefit of hiring someone to kind of work you through the uncomfortable parts. Would you recommend hiring something like hiring a nutrition coach to get me to that level?

1:16:19because I have this weird fear and it's hard for me to do it on my own.

1:16:23Sal Di Stefano:I would love for one of our trainers to take you through this. If you're open to that, I would love for them. Because I honestly, that is the only thing. Like if you were my client, there's, I have no question. I bet you have great form. You understand. Actually, like the one thing will be the psychological part and it would be me just talking to you every week or every other week going, you're doing great, Rachel. And you're going like, I don't know, Adam, I feel this way. And I'd be like, no, you're doing great. Like just that person as a second pair of eyes, letting you know that you're doing great because otherwise we we we mind fuck ourself we're all guilty of this and so i think there's a lot of value in hiring the coach just literally for that more than anything else just to be a second pair of eyes i mean i did it when i was competing i didn't need a coach to tell me what to do as more it was more like i just need a second pair of eyes it lets me know like no no no you're you're doing fine you're good and i tell you what it's it's worth it so yeah i'd love for you to let one of our coaches to take you through that process Okay, perfect.

1:17:18So, yeah, Mind Pump coaches, I'm not exactly sure how to get in touch with you all, but I'm sure.

1:17:22Sal Di Stefano:We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll reach out to you. Don't even worry about it. You'll hear from someone today. Okay, perfect. Yeah, we'll send them over. Okay, yeah, then I think that, and I guess one final thing, if I have you guys on the phone, I'm just kind of curious too, my husband and I were debating a little bit. Power Lift is by far my favorite program. I have always loved just building strength and really kind of working through that and getting, you know, setting new PRs and that's always my favorite thing. what do you think about that in terms of just raw muscle building my husband was saying you know more of a hypertrophy like maps anabolic advanced would be better for just strict muscle building what do you think about that is that i don't know uh we're splitting here yeah we are splitting those are two great those are two great programs if you're like if you just all we all you ever do

1:18:03Adam Schafer:is power lift and moving to you know a different rep range bodybuilding style yeah but i like anabolic advanced for you because you haven't done it yet yeah you said that was one of the programs you haven't done. Yeah, it's literally the only one we own that I've never done. And so do that

1:18:14Sal Di Stefano:with a surplus and you're going to see some. I love that too because especially, yeah, one, you've done the other one. Two, this is also where Sal introduces training to failure in there too. So there's that ability. So it's very different. Anabalca's advance is very unique. So I think there's a lot of value you training that one. I love that idea. Both just so for the discussion with husband, like those are both great programs for that goal. Okay, perfect. Yeah, so it's more diet than it is programming. and that's kind of what I thought. For sure. For sure. We got you though. We'll have someone call you today.

1:18:44Okay, awesome. Thanks guys. Thank you. All right.

1:18:48Sal Di Stefano:For sure.

1:18:49Adam Schafer:Easy. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's got that much muscle, that strong, that lean, 18 to 200 ,000. Trainer, probably taking 15 ,000 steps a day.

1:18:56Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Yeah.

1:18:57Adam Schafer:Her body is just, she's maintaining is what she's doing. Her body's been able to run off of what she's eating but if you want to add more lean tissue, you got to provide your body with the resources to do so. So otherwise, it can be very, very difficult, which is okay if you don't mind maintaining.

1:19:12Sal Di Stefano:So this was, okay, these are almost, she said 5 '2", right? Yeah, 5 '2", 130 pounds. This is Melissa Wolfe's numbers, literally. Like 130, 5 '2", this many calories when we started. We got all the way up to 3 ,200 calories. She hit stage in like almost single-digit body fat at 2 ,400 calories. That was on stage, 2 ,400 calories. So I took her from 18 to 2 ,000 kind of maintenance. She was always a fit girl. So it's not like I radically changed her body fat percentage and all that. But it was literally this was the getting her all the way up to over 3000 calories, bringing her back down. She hit stage and peak week at 2400 calories.

1:19:48Sal Di Stefano:Our next color is Desi from Utah. Hi, Desi. Hey, Desi. Hello. Hello. How can we help you? So nervous. Holy cow. Okay. I'm 44 years old. I've kept active my whole life, counted calories on and off. I've known I need to lift weights for years especially as I age but just could never make myself do it I found your podcast the end of last year and finally thanks to you guys I've started lifting weights I've been doing MAPS 15 since January I love the strength I love the muscle that I'm gaining at the same time also thanks to you guys I've started increasing my calories to see how high I could get and I got up to 2150 without gaining weight, but decided to cut because that just felt like so much food and I wanted to see what a cut could do.

1:20:41Right before the cut, I was able to do an incline dumbbell press at 30 pounds, which I started at 15. So that felt awesome. But then my next two sets were at 25, which was fine. But then I was in my cut and I couldn't even like do two presses at 30 pounds um so I didn't know if that was normal in a deficit and like how do you decide how much weight to lift you just maintain I think I was just used to like increasing my weight the whole time I was doing it um and then my next question was just could I do maps 15 for the rest of my life and be okay or do I need to switch things up because I I love the program, love that I can fit it in my life, but I don't know if that would not be the best.

1:21:31Adam Schafer:Great questions, Debbie. First off, it is normal to notice a decline in strength when you reduce your energy intake. However, your calories didn't get very high, and then you cut them down. I'm assuming around 1 ,500 is probably where you went, which is really low. Yeah. Okay. That's really low. So how tall are you, and how much do you weigh, if you don't mind me asking? um i'm five seven and i'm like 135 yeah really that's really low so you're gonna see substantial strength loss going uh that low with your calories um someone like you strength training over time i mean we're gonna your your cut would be around 2 000 calories not your bulk okay but it's a slow process don't you need to force it you need to you know you don't need to like slam your yourself of food, you just slowly allow the muscle building and metabolism boost to work and continue to pursue strength little by little over time.

1:22:28Adam Schafer:And what this looks like is slowly you can increase your calories, then you can stay at the same calories for a while, then you can increase it. And you just take your time doing this. As far as your question around MAPS 15 is concerned, it's a very well-balanced program. So you could do it indefinitely. however you're probably better off switching at some point just for some variety and for something different and i think if you like that kind of programming the you know 15 minute a day type of deal uh then i think maps 15 performance would be a wonderful program to toggle back and

1:23:00Sal Di Stefano:forth that's right okay i think i even like that um i don't mind that you did the cut for a little fact how long you've been doing the cut for uh like maybe a month and a half okay so okay so this is what we if i if i was training you and you we got up to a high calorie like for you which was 2150 and you've never been there before and you were curious what it would look like i would probably put you on a look i probably would have only done it for like two weeks or so and then gone right back up again yep so uh everything you did i think is great i just i I think you could go right back, but this time go up to 2 ,200 calories or 2 ,250 and do that for a while and see how long you can stay there and watch your strength come right back and you'll be feeling great again.

1:23:46Sal Di Stefano:And ultimately the goal for us to kind of keep doing that where we get to a calorie intake you've never been at for a while, embrace the strength, stay there for a while, and while is like two months, then do a little cut for two weeks and then go right back again. And you just keep, every time you go back, you try and bump the calories a little bit more, a little bit more until you and I have got to a place where you're eating 2 ,800 calories. And now when you cut, it's 2 ,200, 2 ,300 calories and you feel, you feel satiated. You feel, you feel stronger, which is going to be one of the benefits of getting your calorie intake is that you could be in a cut and still have pretty good strength.

1:24:27Sal Di Stefano:1 ,500 is really low and you're definitely going to feel that when, when you're, when you're lifting. And so it's totally normal that you felt that. It's not bad. It's just it's expected. And so ultimately the goal would be to keep kind of doing what you're doing and get those calories up and just watch. And over time, you're going to just continue to love the way it continues to shape and build your body. Yeah.

1:24:48Adam Schafer:Now, just so you understand the little two-week cuts that Adam's talking about, the purpose of that would be to help you with the appetite part. if you feel like oh my god I'm eating so much food you know a two week cut will help stimulate that again but here's the other part of this though that I want you to examine often times people who've counted calories or always watched their weight for most of their life or have been very aware of it I should say whenever they get to a certain point that feels uncomfortable it's not because it's too much food they're just a bit fearful like uh oh I think I'm eating too much like maybe I shouldn't be eating this much because they're not used to eating they're not used to feeding their body so that's a question i want to ask you that i would want you to ask yourself through this process is this really feel like i'm stuffing myself or does it really feel like i'm just afraid i'm just afraid of going this high yeah okay yeah if you don't have maps performance 15 i'll send that to you and those two programs you can go back and forth for the rest of your life yeah okay that would be awesome yeah i don't have that one i love that choice for you by the way i think

1:25:51Sal Di Stefano:what you're doing is great slowly increasing calories running a 15 program like that i'm

1:25:56Adam Schafer:excited to see what happens over the next five to six months and by the way you're you have if you started back in january uh and if you do this well you've got some nice strength gains for the next two years at least where you're gonna yeah now it's not gonna be super linear but you're gonna see yourself generally over time get stronger so if you went from 15 to 30 it's gonna be really exciting to see where you end up you know a couple years from now you'll be doing things that you didn't think possible which is pretty cool thanks that sounds awesome yeah i'm excited doing doing great go back to increasing my calories good keep it up you're doing great thank you okay all right desi yeah all right bye-bye it's i get why you know people are afraid of that but oftentimes like oh i feel like i'm eating you know this is too much food for me the question is does it really feel like it's too much food or is it the fear no it's a great it's

1:26:47Sal Di Stefano:a great way to challenge her thinking around that because that's so true a lot of people it's not it's just it's a lot for them they've never had that and anytime in the past maybe they have they've it's like turned into body fat and they freak out that it's like oh god this is gonna unfamiliar

1:27:00Adam Schafer:area well what it feels like is somebody who's always been super hyper aware of eating too much they feel more comfortable with the empty feeling uh and so to them that's like anything other than that doesn't feel good just like for me which was the reverse i always stuffed myself trying not to be a skinny kid and going without feeling like i had all this food in my belly was like oh i'm needing too little. So it was a bit of a distorted connection to how I felt. Our next caller is Jim from Australia. Welcome back, sir. What's going on, Jim? Okay, boys. Okay. Okay. I only have one question, okay?

1:27:37Okay. Who was the, I was going to say sadistic, but let's just say enthusiastic author of Phase 3, Day 1 of Aesthetic?

1:27:48Sal Di Stefano:oh that's that's the that's the pull that's is that the pull up in the uh back and forth it's a bunch of supersets that was probably sal's idea no that for sure sal's idea how'd you like these are the aesthetic guys yeah so yeah definitely not justin's idea it was either sal or i probably i thought you're gonna go matrix lunch and i was like oh shit here we go well thank you boys thank you i mean it's brutal i don't know went through your minds when you thought, you know, let's program six supersets, four sets each, one after the other. Yeah, this is how we go with that. Man, boys. I mean, I've had some tough routines, but you guys humbled me, absolutely humbled me.

1:28:27Love it. Anyway, just a quick recap. You know, I'm 67, been training since I was 16, celebrated half a century of holding weight above my chest. The bulk of that time was using a four-day split, gathered from magazines and stuff from Frank Zane, Lou Ferringo, Arnie, all the greats of my day. So I was feeling confident and arrogant that I thought I knew what I was doing. But I sought your advice as the volume in Anabolic wasn't the right fit for me. you suggested aesthetic again thank you boys for bringing me closer to hell that was a very interesting experience anyway you asked for my thoughts and i'm going to keep this short um because it's 3 a.m here and last time i died tribe week for about 15 minutes Now, I showed my wife the interview.

1:29:35The only thing she said was she looked at me and said, you really don't know when to shut up, do you, Jim? So apologies, boys. Let's get quickly into it. My thoughts, because you asked for them. Okay, Steadic pushed me way beyond what I thought it would be. I loved the novelty, absolutely enjoyed the novelty. first and foremost of the routine. Like anything new, it's exciting to try. And I think my body responded quite favourably. Going from the four-day split or even anabolic to this three-day full body has had an interesting effect psychologically with me. I've not once made an excuse not to train.

1:30:27I mean, I only finished aesthetic last week. Not once did I miss, oh, hang on, except for the second time I did phase three day one. I mean, seriously, wow. That was a killer. But anyway, I feel less fatigued and more ability because of the increased rest periods. And consequently, I feel really good about it, boys. you've hit upon something here. Now, I did not conform strictly to the routine because I do a 30-minute ab and stretch routine every morning when I get up at 5 a.m. And it's intense enough to make me sweat in the middle of winter, so I know it's a good routine for me. So I dropped all the crunches and leg lifts at the end of the aesthetic routines.

1:31:22Sal Di Stefano:Okay. And I didn't always do the focus sessions. But otherwise, I was pretty religious and stuck to it. Now, you got me to introduce squats and deadlifts. I explained last time I just stood right clear of them for almost a whole 50 years of my training career.

1:31:47Because the reasoning was, you know, I saw a lot of my mates in the 70s and 80s have bad backs and all that sort of stuff. and Sal explained that to me last time, so I won't go into that. But what I did was I did both the deadlifts and the squats with a light weight and just focusing on that form. And I'm actually able to stand on one leg while putting my underpants on now. So thanks, boys. Something like that for a guy my age is a big deal.

1:32:21Sal Di Stefano:That is a big deal. That's awesome. win. Yes, it is a win. But all jokes aside, it's given me renewed confidence, boys. And at my age, too. So, well done for teaching me another lesson. One of the practicalities of that, of course, is I'm able to pick up my granddaughter from the ground. It's so much easier now. But I feel as if I might have to introduce a Turkish get-up or something, because it's still a challenge for me while I'm laying down on the floor to pick her up. So that's something I'm probably going to introduce later on anyway. Great idea. I like that. Perfect. Now, I took some measurements, as Adam suggested, before I started aesthetic.

1:33:04Look, I lost a little bit of size off my chest, and that's to be expected. I mean, I went from, you know, four or five exercises of four sets each twice a week to what aesthetic gives me now. But having said that, I feel as if I fill out my T-shirt more. I feel broader. I feel a general sense of well-being. So to me, losing that inch off my chest, I think it was worth it. It really was. I really feel good about this.

1:33:41Adam Schafer:Good, good. And you might have got leaner through the program. Did you notice anything like that? Say again, sorry, Sal. Did you notice that you got leaner through the program? Because that'll change the chest measurement. No, mate. I didn't get leaner. I won't lie there. I did put on three kilos, and that's what's about six, seven pounds. Oh, wow. But, yeah, my belts are a bit tighter. I went on a bulk while I was doing it. Okay, okay. Because I thought, you know, the volume in this is pretty high, so I want to make sure I've got my. Yeah, good call. My calories up.

1:34:19Sal Di Stefano:Smart. Yeah, good call. Good call. Now, I didn't push myself in terms of weight as I focused on the form predominantly as that's very important in my age. As Sal suggested, I honed in on the skill rather than the weight. So perhaps I didn't get the outcome I could have. So this is what I've decided to do, boys. I've just finished aesthetic. it, I'm going to go back on a four day split routine for four weeks just to introduce the novelty back into my body. Um, and I'm going to do, I'm going to do aesthetic again, but increase the weights and more time under tension. And I think, I think it's going to be a very effective program for me.

1:35:06Sal Di Stefano:I love that. I love that idea. If I can make one suggestion, just because you noticed a little decrease in your chest is if you make a little more effort on the focus sessions and make the chest the thing you focus on, watch that come right up. So that right there. And I love the idea of interrupting this, going back for four weeks for the novelty, then coming back. And then just, I would do focus days, add stuff on the chest. And I think right there, the combination of that, your skills, improving, getting better, maybe adding a little bit more weight on all those lifts look out i i think you're i think you're right adam i will you guys suggested a whole stack of focus sessions on chest and and i've got all the gear for all those exercises so i'll definitely do that um there's one point you guys i didn't think it was fair for me to compare anabolic to aesthetic because i think that was what you guys asked me to do as well because they really are for different purposes and i understand that now i understand what you guys were going on about.

1:36:10Having gone through both programs now, and for my use case, it's defiantly, defiantly aesthetic.

1:36:19Sal Di Stefano:Love it. Now, last point, because I promised my wife that I was going to be quick. You guys deserve all the respect and comments you get. You knew what was going to happen with me, and that says something about your ability. I thought I knew a lot, but just going through this one program of yours and the impact it's had on my body and my psyche, because that was what I was worried about, my psyche, it's been incredible for me. Not only did you guys teach this old dog new tricks, but the confidence you've given me, I'm thinking I can still do this for another decade or two into my 90s. Hell yeah.

1:37:01Sal Di Stefano:Hell yeah. That's right. Excellent. Well, Jim, you inspire us, brother. Yeah, man. You're an inspiration to us, let me tell you. Love it. Well, thanks, guys. Seriously, gentlemen, you really made a difference in my life. I didn't think I would get the satisfaction and the excitement. It's 3 o 'clock in the morning here, and after this, I'm going back. I'm going into the gym bar now. I'm going back, Jim. I love it. While my wife's sleeping. I love it. All right. I love it, Jim. Thanks, Jim. That's killer. We appreciate you, Jim. Great energy, man. Thank you, man. Thanks, boys. Seriously, thank you very much for all your advice.

1:37:38I love you guys, and I'll keep listening. Thanks, boys. Appreciate you, brother. You're the best, dude. Thank you.

1:37:45Adam Schafer:You know what's cool about that? What a great guy. What's cool about that for me, right, is just to listen. Was he 67? 67, been working out for most of his life strength training, bodybuilding. The amount of volume he can handle. Yeah. I know. Aesthetic is a lot of volume. Yeah. a ton but it's just so cool because his body is so conditioned yeah uh to be able to to do that anybody listening who's uh you know wants to strength train as they age like it is it gets

1:38:14Sal Di Stefano:better and better and better i don't think there's been yet a 60 plus year old that we have ever recommended aesthetic to no but after when we talked to him the last no i remember no we did i remember i mean that was if there's a guy who's going to do that and and see great benefits from he was the guy. So cool.

1:38:32Adam Schafer:I remember learning about Jack LaLanne's workout routine in his mid-50s, which, by the way, that's when he sent the world record for push-ups and pull-ups. In his 50s. Yeah, 55 years old. That's so rad. Even in his 90s before he died, he was doing some pretty amazing workouts. So it's definitely possible, as long as it's appropriate. But Jim is a great example of that. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at MindPumpJustin. I'm at MindPumpDeStefano. Adam, MindPumpAdams. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com.

1:39:12Adam Schafer:The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family we thank you for your support and until next time this is mind pump