2654: The 5 Secret Workout Program Hacks for Maximum Gains & More (Listener Live Coaching)

18:05Adam Schafer:want to develop your chest let's say and let's say if you push and rep out push-ups you could do 50 well here's what you do you do like eight push-ups throughout the day you just get on the floor eight put super easy it's like no big deal get up walk around every other hour or so or whenever you pass by your tv or you make a little place in your house or your office you know uh every hour every other hour alarm goes off i go down to you know 10 push-ups or whatever you'll get some incredible gains. Yeah. Just keep that signal alive. It keeps that recruitment process a priority. So it's like, boom, you just, it's almost like you just like get right into that mode.

18:40Adam Schafer:This is a complete lost art that strength athletes in the past, especially the bronze era athletes would do. A lot of it was their labor. This was part of their job, whether they're swinging hammers or breaking rocks or whatever. If you've ever worked with a blue collar worker, you just like their hands are just like, does it make sense? I'll start. I know. I, you know, I remember, You know, this was like my dad and his workers. And here I am, a 17-year-old kid lifting weights. I've been lifting weights for three years. I'm strong. I'm stronger than all of them if we go lift weights. But when it came to their hands, it was like, I don't understand how their hands are so strong and why they have so much stamina.

19:14Adam Schafer:None of them work out. Well, all day long, they're throwing mud up on the wall, and they're swinging hammers. It was this kind of daily, low-intensity lifting. And nobody practices this. People in prison oftentimes will do this, by the way. Yeah. Where they just do the workout six times a day doing the same thing over and over and over. Next up is, now this is somewhat well-known in the athletic space, especially the Olympic lifting space. But it's called post-activation potentiation. And so what this looks like is if you want to improve your power, your ability to accelerate, and also activate as many muscle fibers as possible, what you do is you go do one heavy rep of an exercise.

19:55Adam Schafer:Right afterwards, you go jump. as high as you can. So like an, or do an explosive movement for that body part. So it would look like this. Let's say I can squat 315 for 10 reps. Well, I'd go put 350 on the bar or 330 on the bar. I would do one, which would be kind of heavy, rack it up. And then right afterwards, do an explosive jump. Let's say you do this with bench press. Let's say my max is 300 pounds. Well, I'd put 250 on the bar. I do one rep, rack it, get up, do a jumping pushup. It's called post activation potentiation. and this has been shown in the data to activate more muscle fibers than almost anything else you

20:29Sal Di Stefano:know the the first time i ever noticed the power of this was like again another unintentional thing uh it was around the time that i was heavy dead lifting and i was training singles and so and again i wasn't doing max but i was training very heavy singles and i did a heavy single deadlift and then i turned over turned around and just kind of jumped up and grabbed the pull-up bar my body never felt so light in my life it was the wildest thing ever and i remember being like what the hell that was great. The only time I've grabbed the rim for basketball and I was just messing around. And two, I did this for PR-ing for doing a football combine.

21:05I remembered that. That was like such a rad strategy going in. Yeah, so awesome.

21:10Adam Schafer:All right, last is isometrics. You've heard us talk about them before. Nobody does them because they don't look sexy and because I think people don't understand the power of them. But isometrics build tendon strength. you want tendon strength and they build grit meaning you reduces your risk of injury it makes you tough it makes your body tough now now now people use isometrics wrong here's what they do people will do isometrics at the end of a workout kind of as an afterthought or maybe they'll use it in the beginning as a way to prime their body which is totally fine but i'm talking about isometrics is your workout you are doing a week or two of only yielding overcoming uh force isometrics.

21:52Adam Schafer:So this is an isometrics where you're flexing. That's an isometric, but that's not what I'm talking about. This is like where you grab a bar that's chained to the ground and you're driving, you're trying to deadlift it off the ground or you get under a bar like you're going to squat, but it's got more weight than you can move and you drive against it and you do this for 15 to 30 seconds. This builds and the data builds tendon strength faster than anything else. And this will make you strong. And the strength gains you get from isometrics are very rapid. Your force production, I'm talking about, dramatically goes up within a few workouts alone.

22:26Adam Schafer:And people don't do more workouts. Yeah, with tendon strength, that's not something that a lot of athletes are really considering, which, you know, to be able to have long-term health and performance, like to address that alongside getting super strong with these compound lifts, like it's such a great complement to that and like really low risk.

22:47Sal Di Stefano:You know, it's not probably talked about enough. This is probably one of the more brilliant things as far as in some of our MAPS programs. MAPS symmetry, it starts off with two weeks of isometrics. That's phase one. And then you go into unilateral work, and then you finish with bilateral. And so talk about a really cool, if someone you've never done this before, you're not sure how to program it, or I'm not all the way bought in. Following a program at symmetry where we only commit you to two weeks of the isometrics like that. then you move to unilateral then you get to then you get to see that expressed yep at the end of the program so really good example kudos to the people that stick through phase one because

23:27Adam Schafer:isometrics are so confusing to people and people just want to go lift well i remember you're

23:31Sal Di Stefano:missing out if you remember for people to get if you guys remember uh i fought for us to only do two weeks because i was nervous that too many people would even though we knew that there was benefits to do it even longer oh yeah i took the the high school kids through like four weeks and And I totally agreed because it was like at that point after two weeks, it started to get like, I just want to do. They were fighting back. I mean, to me, that's the hardest part about this is adherence for people because it so unique and different and you're, you're not moving. And so you get, you could get bored or you're like, Oh, but it's like, man, it's if you're looking for the most benefits and the gains and also the most benefits and gains for the safety, right?

24:12Sal Di Stefano:Like it's like, you're not risking a lot when you're doing isometrics.

24:15Adam Schafer:It's the fastest way. Now, it's not the only way. In other words, you don't just do isometrics, okay? But it's the fastest way to bulletproof your body. If you want to have a body that doesn't get injured when you go and you push it hard, isometrics will do this in weeks. In weeks, whereas traditional strength training may take months, this will happen in weeks, and people just don't do it. And the data on it is, I mean, I was aware of isometrics just because I'm a big fan of strength training culture and history. And I knew that bronze era strength athletes like Eugene Sandow, like they were so strong for their size.

24:52Adam Schafer:And I remember, I know that they did isometrics and they would sell isometric courses back in the day in magazines or books. So I was aware, but I never gave it a lot of value or credence until I started working with Justin. And Justin talked about it, sent me some articles. I looked at the studies and I was like, oh my God. Yeah, it's crazy. This is insane. It's crazy the value that they provide. And listen, just do a week. If you're watching this and you want to mix it up, do a week of those type of isometrics for each body part. Go back to your workout. Tell me you don't notice a difference.

25:22Adam Schafer:Yeah, completely worth it. Yeah. Anyway, speaking of studies, our editor, Josh, sent me some studies. Again, huh? Yeah, he's doing a great job. So what he did is he opened like a can of worms for me on photobiomodulation, which is the term. This is a scientific term for light therapy. Receptors? Well, it's light therapy to induce changes in the body, in particular red light therapy, like our partners at Juve, right? So red light therapy, weird, but super backed by data, decades of data. It really does work. And we know this for skin. We know this for recovery, raises testosterone. Essentially, just to give you a little nutshell for people who are like, what is it?

26:05Adam Schafer:A particular wavelength of red light gets your cells, any cell that this red light touches. it gets the mitochondria to produce more energy and to essentially function more optimally. So whatever cell it touches works better. So your skin looks younger, your muscles recover faster, your joints don't hurt. I didn't know this. There's a whole host of studies on what's known as transcranial photobiomodulation. All right. What is that? You put red light on your skull and a certain amount of this red light gets through the skull and goes to your brain. okay you know what the data shows improve cognition improve uh visual um visual memory verbal fluency anti-depression anti-anxiety like it makes your brain better if you shine it on your

26:52Sal Di Stefano:head and you get close so that's part of the school when i sit in front of it one of the things i do but mine was for hair i would sit like so my red lights here and then i'll i'll at least a few minutes at a time, I'm sitting with the thing just right on top of my head. So that's interesting.

27:09Adam Schafer:Dude, I read a study for pain. So for people in opiate withdrawal, doing this on their brain reduced pain and withdrawal symptoms. Interesting. I read one for anxiety. I read one for depression. Does it lower inflammation too, or is it just like - It's literally making your brain operate better. It just functions better. Yeah, there's studies on Alzheimer's and dementia because one of the hallmarks is that their brains just don't utilize energy very well, which is why who thought like light light dude well when you kind of think i mean it kind of

27:39Sal Di Stefano:makes sense yeah think about how important the sun is to plants and all in the that process like it kind of makes sense when you when you think about it's weird that you have receptors inside your

27:47Adam Schafer:nose and inside your ears yeah for light or your brain why your brain doesn't ever see the light yeah your brain's in a dark head that's true yeah when it gets red light it triggers this response By the way, for people who are like, oh, let me look up places where I can get red light therapy. There's a particular wavelength and a particular strength that's used in these studies. Juve uses the same, like they use the study grade stuff. If you get like the cheaper stuff, you'll have to use it 20 times. By the way, I looked all that up.

28:20Sal Di Stefano:I looked up because I had some of my family members had heard us talk about it. And then they told me like, oh, hey, I got this. And they showed me. And it was only this much. and then I looked it up and you can actually break down and I forget what the measurement is of the red lights, but they all have like a measurement, right, that you can look at. And then it tells you like the benefits by the time. And so, yeah, they save like let's say half the money on it, but it takes them four times the amount of time in front of the light to get the same amount that that does. So it's not as concentrated.

28:50Sal Di Stefano:No, and it's not one of those, like it's already, to discipline yourself to sit in front of it three times a week for 10 to 20 minutes is already tough to be consistent with people. So if you have to do four times the amount of that, it's not going to work. I guess you could save the money and then dedicate four times the amount of time. It's a waste of time. But it's just like, or you could spend the money and get the best. Yeah, three times, four times a week and get crazy results. Yeah, so. Totally.

29:15Adam Schafer:So take a left. I just learned just the wildest thing about my family. I'm dying to hear what this is. You've been holding onto this and like, dude, I need to know. So have you guys ever done like Family Tree or, you know, whatever? What's that one website? 24 and Me. Yeah. 23 and Me. 24 and Me. That's one extra. Adam got one more. That's a mutant. Yeah. Oh, no, bro. All right. So anyway, do you guys have any like ancestors that you know of?

29:48Sal Di Stefano:I bought that box, 23 and Me, or maybe I bought 24 and Me. Maybe I got ripped off. You got bad news for Adam. I bought the 23andMe a year and a half ago when my aunt was telling me, like, oh, man, we found some people connected like that, and I was about to do it, and it just so happened to be it was during a time when we, I don't know, it was conspiracy theory conversation was, like, heavy in our podcast or whatever, and I'm like, the idea of giving them all that data of, you know. Oh, yeah. So it's still sitting there. I still have it, and I haven't done it.

30:19Adam Schafer:Well, you found, didn't you find? Yeah, it's been breached. Is it? It has. Yeah, so that's why I was like, nah. So didn't you find, isn't that sword related to you somehow?

30:28Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, that's my, and we don't talk about it much because we don't know if it's a positive thing or not. Were they like a crusader? Like what is that? I think we tried to do some homework on it. German descent. Okay, so it's attached to my great-grandfather's side, right? And my aunt, she's like, I figured you'd like to. I was like, oh, awesome. So I totally took it. and then later on she told me she did like more research on him and it i don't think he's like was one of the greatest people oh my bad did you have a sword lots of headings yeah yeah i'm not

31:03Adam Schafer:sure if it was well i just i don't know okay this is wild right so when i was 12 we went to italy on vacation and my mom's side of the family although now we're from sicily like my dad's if you go back a certain amount of generations they came from northern italy so my mom's made name is Visconti. Visconti is one of the most significant royal names in Italy, which I knew at 12 because we went to Milan and we saw the Visconti castle. We saw this, that, and the other, but I never identified strongly with my mom's side. I think it's because I was a boy and I wanted to be like my dad and his approval.

31:41Adam Schafer:So I didn't really look into it, but I knew that her side were, you know, they were essentially kings and queens of Northern.

31:47Sal Di Stefano:Descendants of them.

31:48Adam Schafer:Yeah, kings and queens of Northern Italy. In fact, if you're Italian, you learn this in history school. And again, you go to Milan, you'll see cathedrals and stuff with Visconti, the coat of arms, the whole deal. It's kind of wild, right? For whatever reason, yesterday, out of the blue, I was just like, I feel like learning about them. Let me read a little bit about the Viscontis. So I go and I start doing some digging. One of the most significant popes in Catholic history was a Visconti. One of my family members. So Pope Gregory X was, that's Visconti Castle right there? No, that's a museum. Yeah, there you go.

32:24Sal Di Stefano:On the left, top left.

32:25Adam Schafer:So Pope Gregory X, his birth name was Teobaldo Visconti. So once you become elected as Pope, you pick a different name. Incidentally, by the way, the first American Pope took on the name Gregory as well. But anyway, he was a Pope. So I have a family member back in, I think it's 11, I don't remember what year, It's like in the 1100s. Who was a pope? So it's funny. So I have a text. I text Father Steve. He's the producer of Bishop Barron's podcast. Yeah. And I'm like, dude, I just learned this. Now, he's like a history nut. He's obviously a priest. He's like, dude, he was one of the most significant popes in our history.

33:02Adam Schafer:And I guess he was beautified, which is like one step towards becoming a saint or whatever. And he helped unify the church. That's his picture right there. How cool is that? How crazy is that, dude? Dude, nuts. I have a pope in my family, dude. He looks just like you. Yeah. Yeah, right. So glad you're not an atheist anymore. So he reigned from September 1st, 1271 to 1276. And he was born in 1210 in Piacenza, Italy. The Obaldo Visconti.

33:30Sal Di Stefano:Now, did you, I'm assuming after you found this out, you must have called all your family and told your family. They didn't know, did they?

33:35Adam Schafer:My cousin knew. I said to my cousin, oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, you didn't know that? I'm like, we had an archbishop and then a pope. So we also have an archbishop. I think his name was Ottoni Visconti, who was with the church.

33:48Sal Di Stefano:Now, is that – I don't know the structure. Archbishop is below. Right below. So in order to become a pope, you have to be an archbishop first. I believe so. I really don't know. To even be an opportunity.

33:58Adam Schafer:But I read of the history. So I guess there was a three-year vacancy, and there was some stuff going on. Is that normal? To have a vacancy like that? If they can't come to a – if they can't come to an agreement.

34:09Sal Di Stefano:I know they do the whole smoke thing, and there's a process.

34:12Adam Schafer:And it lasted for three years.

34:13Sal Di Stefano:Is that normal? No. Does it ever last? I didn't know that. No, but you have to come to agree, man.

34:19Adam Schafer:Yeah, and so it lasted for three years, and he reorganized or reunified the church, and so he's considered a significant pope. And there's wild. Yeah, that's cool. I had a family member, dude. I know. That's true. I know, it's wild. That's cool. I'm glad I didn't learn something. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure about mine over here, bro. It's the German side of my family, too.

34:42Sal Di Stefano:So I'm like, eh, we'll leave that alone. That's kind of how I found out. It's a cool sword, but we'll leave it alone. Yeah. I wasn't Irish. I thought it was a lie. They call it a conclave, right? Conclave, yeah. Yeah, so that was the longest one.

34:53Adam Schafer:Oh, wow. For Pope Gregory. Yeah, in fact, I think they tried to elect an antipope at the time. Who was that? I don't know. He just throws terms around you, I'm saying. Because I think that there was a little bit of a, like where they were infighting. And so like, no, we want this guy to be pope, whatever. So he came and reunified them. Okay. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm not like the gray Pope and there's all these other. Dude. The history is crazy. Yeah. Look at if I was on that one conspiracy theorist podcast and they were talking about that kind of stuff, like all the different types of popes like that exists.

35:27Adam Schafer:Yeah. I'm like, is this true? I don't know. Yeah. It's wild. Anyway, I'm going to make a comparison right now between two social media people. Okay. One of them very popular, one not so popular. So you sent a clip. I couldn't help it bro I couldn't I couldn't finish it oh you couldn't I ended up watching the whole thing I watched it like five times it's like pure entertainment for me I watched it like five I'm like this is this is epic Aubrey Marcus yeah dude that's what you're talking about yeah there was a post of him and his wife talking about their open relationship yeah what did he call it he had a term in there yeah the constellation or relational like love constellation which essentially means Had an opening.

36:10Adam Schafer:We just have a bunch? Yeah.

36:12Sal Di Stefano:Our relational constellation had an opening. Something like that. In other words, my wife wanted to bang some other dude. Such an eloquent way to put that. I know. It's so good. And it's just so beautiful. Having another dude come in.

36:22Adam Schafer:It's so beautiful that she's having pleasure with this other whatever. And I was like, listen to this guy. I'm like, oh, my God, dude. What are you doing? And then at the end, the guy that's, I guess, now sleeping with his wife, because they all, whatever, they all love each other. He blessed their love. You guys need to bring a baby, you know, Aubrey Marcus into the world. I'm like, please don't do that. Please don't bring a kid into this weirdness. Like, that's terrible. But anyway, I'm going to compare him. Yeah, who are you comparing him to? Andrew Tate. What? Well, hold on. Here's why. Andrew Tate did this post that went viral.

36:54Adam Schafer:Which is all of his go viral. But this one went really viral. It caused a lot of controversy. Oh, okay. Where he said that the future is for polygamy. that men with high status need to have lots of different wives because they're better. Yes, because this is the way we did in history, this, that, and the other. And so he's going in a different direction. He's going in a different direction, but kind of similar to where they're like the notion of one man, one woman. Like they're trying to break that.

37:23Sal Di Stefano:So it's interesting that you say, you bring up Andrew Tickens. He's like women in possession. I hadn't watched some of his stuff in a long time. And I just, I was like, you know what? What's going on with him? Is he arrested? I haven't paid attention to him in a long time since we probably talked about him back when. So I just recently found some of his stuff and was going through some of his posts. And I sense an interesting tone in his content that reminds me of the same journey that Dan Bilzerian went down.

37:56Sal Di Stefano:He's hilarious to me. So like he's pure entertainment for me to watch it because some of the stuff he says is just so outlandish and wild that it's comical.

38:04Adam Schafer:That's the comparison I was going to make is that Aubrey Marcus is, in my opinion, I think they're both dangerous because the way they promote things that are not great. They're not great for society, not great for people. You want the data. There's plenty of it. It's especially not good for children. In fact, I heard a woman say one of the ways we should judge culture or changes in culture is by judging you against the most vulnerable of us.

38:30Sal Di Stefano:I know who said that. That was the lady that was in that feminist debate, which was really good.

38:36Adam Schafer:Yeah, so it's like how— Was that Erica? Not Erica. It was the other girl. No, it was the other one. Yeah, it was the other girl. And it's a really good way to present it. It is because it's like, okay, cool. We want to do this thing, and I want to let my wife sleep with men, and I think it's great. How is this going to affect our children? You know why that resonated?

38:49Sal Di Stefano:so strongly with me is one of the things I've communicated before when people ask me about how things are different with fatherhood for me. One of the things that organically happened, I don't actively do this. I can't help but not see it through his eyes. So even the silliest of decisions, like let's say making a purchase on something, let's say it's a little bit of blowing money or this and that. I think that, oh, one day my son's going to ask me about that. And how will I - It's a great litmus test. I don't, like I said, I don't even intentionally do it. It just happened when I became a father.

39:18Sal Di Stefano:but when I think about it, it's like, what a good way to look at it because if you can't, if I find myself just through the exercise of thinking about having that conversation, struggling to explain it to my kid on the justification of why I did said thing, maybe it's not a good thing. Maybe it's just self-indulgent bullshit. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like it's self-serving.

39:41Adam Schafer:It's 100%. So here's why I don't like, this is why I think they're both douches or whatever, but I think Andrew Tate is better, not because I think he's better, but because he's comedy. He's not pretending to be a warrior poet or whatever.

39:55Sal Di Stefano:He's openly, I'm an asshole.

39:57Adam Schafer:You can take a lot of what he says tongue-in-cheek, and if you're a smart guy, you do. You watch him for the comedy, and you don't go, oh, I'm going to take his advice, because it's all funny. Aubrey takes himself really seriously. He's like, this is spiritual evolution. I like that take. This is the right thing to do, or whatever. And you're right. It's a self-indulgent insanity. And really, I like to take it back to fitness. I think everybody listening to this can understand when I do that. Is the person who says, I just want to eat whatever I want. Are they more free than the person who says, no, I'm going to eat in a way that's healthy?

40:31Adam Schafer:Even though the person that says, I'm going to eat healthy is restricting themselves from not eating the things that are, let's say, super tasty or hyper palatable or whatever, who's actually more free? The person who's going in the healthy way.

40:43Sal Di Stefano:For the reasons of you're now healthy, you can do so much more.

40:46Adam Schafer:You are free in the spiritual sense or the religious sense. You're free from sin or whatever. But someone like Aubrey, like, no, we're free. We're free to love whoever we want. No, you're actually under the tyranny of your lust or whatever the hell it is, your pleasure, your own self-indulgences. you're actually more free when you find a woman and both of you dedicate yourselves to each other for the rest of your life.

41:06Sal Di Stefano:I think the thing, you know, since you brought them up and we're comparing them right now and they are very different, that's the thing that I think they both are uncommon is that's the piece of their life they haven't figured out, which is, I think that's probably why you feel so strongly about their,

41:18Adam Schafer:both their advice being not ideal for the young generation that's coming up is

41:23Sal Di Stefano:that they both, they have, they both have maybe figured a lot of other things out in their life and, in giving them some credit, intelligent in some realms. But the relationship and that part, I think they both. And that's the sense I get when I listen to some of his content right now recently. He sounds, and it's been really fun to watch Dan Bilzerian's transition in the last. Oh, he's completely different.

41:48Adam Schafer:Yeah.

41:48Sal Di Stefano:But also seeing how much he still struggles because he did that. He slept with so many. He's so known for that. And because he did, now knowing that monogamy is the direction that he wants, still struggling with that because of all these behaviors and patterns that he has. He's caused damage. Yeah. To himself. Yes. And so I find Tate is very similar with that and money. Like they, I mean, one of the clips I had just recently seen him was just kind of ranting just about how boring life is. And he's because he has so much access. He has everything he could possibly want. He can't spend his way to happiness and enjoyment.

42:27Sal Di Stefano:And it's like, you know, it's so crazy because so many of us set that as this bar and then our whole life we're working towards it. So and really, it's the working towards part where the gold is at. And a lot of people, because they never reach that, get that opportunity. Maybe one of the greatest curses is to get all of that so early and so fast in your life because then you go. It's so funny.

42:49Adam Schafer:I'm reading Ecclesiastes right now, which was written by King Solomon, who is widely regarded at the time. was like having the most money the most wealth the most he had thousands of concubines yet and in ecclesiastes which he wrote he's like it's meaningless it's nothing i'm lost what is it it's just like chasing the wind this and that because he got all the worldly things and he's left in this place where he's like oh what this is not what i thought it would be yeah yeah you know but andrew tate the thing about him that makes him dangerous is he attracts vulnerable young men who probably didn't have either father figures or they had bad father figures.

43:26Adam Schafer:And so they are attracted to this fake, this false idea of masculinity and this ultra machismo.

43:36Sal Di Stefano:I think the reason why he is also though, because there is this - I think he's funny, but I think if you keep on that, that's okay. I think there's a part of him that is needed in our society. So that's why it works. it works because there's this such a decline in masculinity.

43:54Adam Schafer:So you think this could be used for good?

43:56Sal Di Stefano:I'm not even making that argument necessarily, right? I'm not even going to try and make the argument that he is good I'm saying that the reason what makes him so popular is that there is an underlying need in our society there's a void in our society of good masculinity alpha and we've gone so extreme the other way that of course the ideal antagonist arises right he is the the complete opposite of the you know woke the white guy and so and so that that and so and the truth is it's probably somewhere in the middle that we need that is ideal but you're going to get a lot of popularity because he's going to he's going to buck that opposite side so i think that's why the truth is masculine i don't know i don't know where to categorize it Aubrey Marcus I don't either I mean that's just that's old hippie bullshit recycled that's old hippie bullshit recycled

44:53Adam Schafer:I've seen cults you know and it's very on brand but it's not if I had to categorize him if I had to use a stereotype or a popular word it would actually be beta for Aubrey Marcus that kind of like I'm this evolved you know no do whatever and it's all good I mean I don't know

45:11Sal Di Stefano:what you categorize somebody who you don't mind your wife going and banging other dudes yes but it's it's beta maybe is i don't know there's a word for it there's no strength there there's no

45:21Adam Schafer:like you know what i mean yeah yeah it's like a movie man he would say it takes a lot of strength to be okay with it bro why do you think you feel like shit about it i mean i i feel like um

45:32Sal Di Stefano:why so i know because i know justin is very turned off by like cult leader guys so i know that's like he's got the cult leaders yeah i know that i know that like turns and cringes him inside but i feel like i mean when i look at the comments on that post i saw i mean at least half if not more than half people are are very aware of what's going on in front of them they're not they're not i don't there's only a small percentage of people that were like this is so beautiful most everybody else was like pray i pray that this love never finds me

46:01Adam Schafer:one guy goes one guy or i don't know if it was a guy or girl was like this is cool if that's what you want to do but this is so performative like why you guys can't talk about it on the show or whatever yeah so it's so ridiculous interesting anyway i was talking to tom uh from rock recovery the other day and um it's really cool i love the guys over there and you know what he'll do every once in a while is if someone to catch up with tom if someone went to rock uh through our show he'll ask me hey can you send a video and let them know that of course he gets their permission so i'll always do that just to encourage them or whatever but you know one thing that they do really well uh and i i i'll be careful because i don't want to call anybody out but a friend of mine has a friend who's dealing with addiction right now alcohol addiction and he and i reached out to him and i said look if he if there's anything he needs if he needs help and he's into fitness let me know because especially from what i learned from tom fitness is a incredible vehicle to help break uh substance abuse yeah and they use it at rock recovery a lot yeah because it's the discipline it's the structure it's the pain then you see your body change you see yourself getting stronger and it's a night it's a it's an easier way to take your addiction from alcohol and then now you can become addicted to fitness but using fitness as part of their they use fitness as part of the strategy with rehab and he says purpose self-growth like it is so much there to to put you back on the right path i don't know about you guys but i've i've known many people in the gyms that I've managed, and even people that work for me who found fitness as a way to break alcohol addiction or other things.

47:39Sal Di Stefano:I'm going to use this opportunity since you brought up Tom to apologize to him publicly because I know that he has messaged me a couple times in the last couple weeks at just the worst times in the middle of all the stuff that we've got going on. And I'm really good normally about getting back to people. So Tom, if you're listening to this, my bad. I got you. I'll reach back out to you because him and I actually communicate quite often. and he literally couldn't have timed it worse as far as when his messages came through. We were in the thick of all the stuff we were dealing with.

48:04Adam Schafer:And they've given out a few scholarships now already to some of our listeners. I love that. They help all of them. It's such a cool thing that we have. It's like a$30 ,000,$40 ,000 scholarship. To send people to. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Anyway, I want to hear about this muscle suit, Justin. I put that in as like a, yeah, just like a placeholder. That's not the thing that Aaron was talking about on our show.

48:23Sal Di Stefano:Are you talking about that? No, no, no, no. This isn't like cool and science-y. Uh-oh. Yeah, like performance space. This is like S &M. What? I don't know why I got targeted for an ad. Apparently, it's very exposing. Those algorithms are really good. I just stopped and I had to watch because I was like, this is bizarre. It was so weird to me. Because if you think about, what are they called, like furries, there's this whole community of that. And then like people get like weird with like putting, you know, dress it up and, you know, bringing that into the bedroom. Anyways, there's this like mask.

49:03Like you've seen those masks where it's just like holes in the eyes and like a mouth and like it zips up.

49:07Sal Di Stefano:So they have that. But it's like a huge. What are you talking about, Justin? Like it's a suit that like it's like a huge muscle suit like guy. For people that are into that. For people that are into that. It reminded me of like when you were talking about being a bodybuilder, muscle worship. Yeah.

49:23Adam Schafer:Yeah, but now it's like padded suit. It's a muscle suit for sex. Yes. Yeah, you look like a huge bodybuilder, but you're just this.

49:33Sal Di Stefano:I mean, it makes kind of sense. Well, first of all, it makes sense if you know about the muscle worship community because that I was completely unaware of.

49:40Adam Schafer:That's such a weird space, dude. It was weird. I didn't know this existed. I did not know that was sex. That's especially women, like jacked female bodybuilders that are really jacked.

49:48Sal Di Stefano:It's one of the number one ways that people in that space have found a way to make money because it's not a very profitable space. To be a bodybuilder still today is not profitable.

49:59Adam Schafer:No, you're broke, dude.

50:01Sal Di Stefano:Even the best of the best, the champion, barely makes enough to cover his steroids. That check he wins for first place in the world. Oh, that's his steroids. His$150 ,000 check covers his drugs. Yeah, his pharmaceutical bill. So there's no money in it. Yes, you can get sponsors and things like that. but even that it's not it's not a lot so a lot of them and that's by the way half point zero one percent right so the rest of them make money doing that and there's a huge community of people that pay for like videos of you just flexing a muscle or or like or they'll oil you up yeah come to my house and flex and i'll just put yeah i'll pay you a thousand dollars just to rub oil on your biceps again this reminds me of the o 'hearn movie that yes maybe watch yes yes yes yes That's exactly what went through my head when I'm like, bro, you got suckered into making this video.

50:52Adam Schafer:But this is a fake suit. This fake suit. It's padded, but huge. So let's play this out. A wife tells her husband, you know, it would be really exciting, honey. I almost want to bust out. You put on a muscle suit. It would really turn me off. First of all, the poor guy, right? He feels so uncertain. But then let's flip it. I wonder if there's dudes that are like, hey, babe, can you put on a muscle suit? Oh, my God. Of course there is. Of course there is. What is wrong with people doing this?

51:16Sal Di Stefano:I mean, somebody created the company because they realized there's a need in the market. Yeah, that was a new one.

51:22Adam Schafer:I just had to share. Well, so female body, I read about this a long time ago. I was too young to read about this, but I subscribed to a muscle magazine back in the day, Muscle Media 2000. And it was like all the dark black market conversations around bodybuilding. I was fascinated as a 15-year-old kid in the whole world of building muscle. So this magazine would talk about steroids. But it also talked about how female bodybuilders, men would pay them to show up at their house and then beat them up. Yeah. Like they'd show up. Like hurt them, wrestle them. Yeah, wrestle them, get them in headlocks, get them in scissor holes with their legs.

51:58Adam Schafer:There's a documentary on that girl.

52:00Sal Di Stefano:There was a whole documentary on Netflix.

52:02Adam Schafer:Oh, the one that got killed by her boyfriend? Yes, yes. And it was because of stuff like that. Was that Birtle Fox? I forgot. It was Birtle Fox. Is that the name? I think Birtle Fox was the one that,

52:12Sal Di Stefano:because I was all into it. yeah that was an interesting documentary i remember it's funny because i i and we we have brought up a bunch but like the show taboo i was so into that show because i just like i don't know i'd like peering into like really weird people like it's just like like that guy fell in love with his car and he's just like making out with his car i'm like what who's most likely to do that with a car stupid just because i have coffee in my garage Do they all have girl names? At least no. They don't have names. Don't lie.

52:47Adam Schafer:No Eleonors in there? They don't have gay. Bro, if I ever see you kiss your car, bro, I've never done so like that. I'm going to beat the crap out of you, bro. I've never done that. We'll have an intervention in here. I mean, I do have chairs in the garage to sit in there,

52:57Sal Di Stefano:but I don't be kissing. You have chairs in the garage? I do. That's like the biggest thing everybody laughs about when they come over. You just sit there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just look at it and drink. But I've also struck. I do not do that. I've structured it as like a piece of art, right? So that's how I look at it. It's art that I get to drive every once in a while.

53:14Adam Schafer:He tells Ferrella. That's what he calls it. Ferrella is all his problems.

53:19Sal Di Stefano:I don't understand. I name all my guitars. I can't. Exactly. He has names of his guitars. Yeah. He's more likely. Throw him on the bus like that. That's gross.

53:29Adam Schafer:I just thought of you having a relationship with him right now. That's terrible. I don't understand why you didn't hit with this algorithm. It was a muscle suit. Because he's the one who's more likely. I watch weird things man and I don't know I want to see this muscle suit Doug is there a way you can find this oh great thanks put it on put it on his algorithm your google search is all messed up you're already being watched you're already screwed NSA's already watched we did that to you a long time ago what would you type in muscle suit SNN hey why he's gonna do that up which one of you has the Gen Z

53:59Sal Di Stefano:trained young women what's that

54:01Adam Schafer:can you tell me that that's wild so first I'm gonna see the suit it'll be a weird transition it's like a black zip up suit I've seen some stuff here padded suit pull it up here real quick all right look at this well let's oh wow that's actually kind of expensive huh yeah it's more like the one in the middle but but it was bigger than that like it was like way oversized let me get some more images just work out yeah just well like that this would be a lot easier i mean this is yeah what a hack for a little skinny guy you know dude that's weird that's kind of creepy it is yeah i mean i'll tell you what those are like actually good stuff.

54:37Adam Schafer:Oh, yeah, more like that one. You see that one? They're like really good. This one here? Yeah. I'll tell you what right now. Those are like really good. Yeah, that one. If you bought that for me. But it was all black. If you bought that for me as an eight-year-old kid, I would wear that shit every day. It would be awesome. Every day as an eight-year-old kid. Oh, yeah. I got my son. I mean, this would be a fun Halloween costume. That would be a fun Halloween costume. I got my son whole pajamas. Did I tell you? What did you find, Doug? I found, you can see this has a zipper, you know, so it makes sense.

55:02Adam Schafer:Oh, in the front. Yeah. Oh, and that air. Wow,$2 ,000 for that one.

55:07Sal Di Stefano:Oh, God. Yeah. That's definitely got to be it right there. That's what Justin was talking about. That's the one right there. That's the one, yeah. Look at no emphasis on the calves, though. No one even cares. No one even cares.

55:18Adam Schafer:Accurate. That's very accurate. We're fine. We're good. It's rare you're going to get that. I got my son Hulk pajamas. I don't know. Does your kid do this? Whenever I get him superhero pajamas, maybe because I told him this, he gets the powers, and I pretend like he's got the powers. So he puts on these Hulk pajamas and he comes and wrestles me and act like he beats me up. Hulk smash. Yeah, I'm like, it's not fair. You got me down. Anyway, all right, Gen Z young women. You want to hear what a trend is happening with young women in Gen Z? Yeah, I'm here. They're going to -

55:45Sal Di Stefano:It's not the trad wife thing. No, dude.

55:47Adam Schafer:They're going to conclaves to hang out with nuns for like a week or two at a time and pray. And that's - I literally saw this. That's a trend? Trend. With these young women - Interesting. And I get it because with social media. Convents. Convents, sorry. Not conclave. What's a conclave? That's the thing for the Pope. Oh, my bad. Convents. They go to convents. And they live with them for like a week or two. Really? Yeah. That's pretty cool. Think about it. It makes sense, right? Like if you're a kid right now bombarded by social media, pornography, electronics, no connection, that could feel like I could see how some kids will run in that direction.

56:24Sal Di Stefano:To maybe back you up a little bit. I told you guys about the other day that my neighbor, we had the little neighborhood party. So I don't know if I talked about this on the podcast. I don't think I did. And I'm talking to one of my neighbors who's like a tech dude, engineer guy. And he's got four kids and they got large gaps. And he's telling me that, you know, the ones that were already using iPads, iPhones during COVID, it just, he's like, I lost them. Never. But his youngest, it saw the older siblings like that. and they intentionally restrict. They're restricting themselves. It's not him or anyone telling me.

57:01Sal Di Stefano:She was standing right there. I had the conversation and was nodding her head like, yeah, I know. This generation coming up is more aware of that than the generation that was kind of born with it in. So I feel like the, I don't know what age group that is, but it seems like preteen and teens now, early teens. There's some hope. Yeah, yeah. It'll be interesting to hear from you guys, because especially you because you have one that's coming up on teen. How old is Everett right now? Yeah, he's 12. He's 12, so he's right at that age.

57:32Adam Schafer:But he's pretty much a teen. He acts just like a teen right now. It's crazy, dude. It happened so fast. It's tough. The change just happened so fast. Hell, yeah. It's wild. No, my 15-year-old got back from a Christian camp for a week, and there was no reception up there. And she was talking all about it. And I'm like, do you see the difference of connection when you're with people and no phones? It's so rad. And she's like, I do. She's like, I totally do. And then she said, you know what's hard? She goes, what's hard is when you're with your friends and everyone is on their phones and you're not.

58:04Adam Schafer:She's like, and then you're like, what do I do?

58:05Sal Di Stefano:You know, I'll tell you what happened. This is what, I bet it's happening already with the kid that's the popular, confident kind of leader personality calls it out. We're all sitting here together. What are you doing on your phones? We're all right here. It's going to take that kid to be kind of like that. And then it starts to spread out. Shake him out of it. And so all it takes is the kid that kind of is the leader of the group that becomes the person who starts to say that. And if they're aware.

58:36Adam Schafer:It's so hard, dude, when they're so surrounded by. Because I put restrictions on my daughter. And she gives me pushback a lot because she's like, my friends can do this. My friends can do that. But when you find other parents who are aligned and then they hang out with those kids, way easier. And the reality is this. your teenage kids are more influenced by their peers than they are by you. So it's important that you find, you help find, I don't know how you would curate this, but help find a friend group where the parents align with you

59:05Sal Di Stefano:because otherwise it's up to the top. Do you also think a lot of it has to do, though, with putting the toothpaste back in the tube for you where it's like - Totally. If you would have from before communicated why we don't - That's the thing, to hold out as long as possible. I really believe in that. My cousin Stephanie, they were like that from day one. And one of the things I was most impressed with was talking to their 16-year-old daughter, right, who's in the thick of all that stuff, who has very strict restrictions around social media. And asking her, like, how do you feel with that? She's like, oh, man, it sucks.

59:38Sal Di Stefano:I wish I could use it more. And there's a lot of times where it's like my time limit's up and my friends. And she's saying all the things. And I'm like, oh. And then she'd say something like, yeah, but I get it. I understand where my parents are coming from. my mind's like well one day you're going to be a parent and i said well would you would you do the same thing or would you how would you do it and she goes oh no i would i would do it exactly what my parents are doing that's to me that's like such a good sign is that because you can admit yeah it's hard yes i want it yeah all those things and then also admit but i totally understand where my parents are coming from and i too will parent the same way to me you won 100 as a parent if you if you got that message through it's it's normal for them to have a little resistance to be bummed out they're not but if they can admit that i would do the same thing as which i think that to me i i took away from that i was like oh that's i'm totally gonna use that exercise with it's max

1:00:29Adam Schafer:100 and it's like this look and this again i'm gonna speak to the fitness uh to fitness because that's our audience and i think they'll get this And we'll see you next time. If you do what everybody else does from a health perspective, you're going to be fat, unhealthy, and sick. It's a fact. Do what everybody else does. Eat the way everybody else eats and exercise or don't exercise like everybody. And the result of that is you will be sick, obese, unhealthy, diabetes, chronic disease, all that stuff, right? That's true for everything. That's true for everything. If you live like everybody does, you're also going to have mental illness.

1:01:00Adam Schafer:You're going to have anxiety. You're going to have depression. You're going to have poor... And the data on this is clear. In other words, you have to be different. You can't be like everyone else. How do we get an Amish person on the show, dude? I would love it. I keep thinking about that. Did you hear about them going to Texas and just like building and rebuilding buildings and everything and just – No. It's like the coolest – I don't know. I'm just so impressed by that culture and what they have stood their ground and how they're like not incorporating. it just shows like it's a it's a it's a great example to see that contrast of like you know it has technology really benefited us in some ways i would love to have someone on the show

1:01:41Sal Di Stefano:i'm fascinated with the with the culture i'm i would like somebody i mean it's extreme but it's one of them listening right now and they're pirating it or something like that come on the show wouldn't that be wild somebody's got to have a family friend or connected i do if i'm not

1:01:56Adam Schafer:mistaken because I read there was a moment there for like a day where I was into there. Like maybe we catch them on that. What's it called? I think they have like one computer for the whole computer. We have to like go there. We know.

1:02:04Sal Di Stefano:We just need to catch one that's on the, uh, what's it called? When they, when they get the rudge. Yes. Yes. When they can go wild, they go wild for, is it a year they get? They get like a year, right? So we just need to catch one that's on the year of their wild. They can do everything and then get them on the show.

1:02:20Adam Schafer:Imagine we have them come on and they pull up in there in a horse.

1:02:24Sal Di Stefano:What's it called? Yeah, it's room springa and it lasts one year and it's when they turn 15 or 16 or 18 with how old ramshad yes a period of adolescence boys and girls are given greater greater personal freedom let me see as far as the age even that i'm fascinated with that strategy right restrict restrict and it's like okay go bananas for a year and and live it up and then see see and then come back and see what majority comes back in some state right so around age 16 it could be a few months several years and up to five years. What is the percentage of them that come back? Majority. Yeah. The majority.

1:03:00Sal Di Stefano:I don't know what the percentage is, but it's the majority. I want to know how many. It's actually rare. Is it 51 or is it like 80, 90? Because that's impressive.

1:03:06Adam Schafer:If I'm not mistaken, it's in the 90s. 85 to 90%. Wow. There you go. Talk about, that is kind of cool. Significant. Yep. Why would they go back? And a lot of it is their community, their family, their culture. Yeah.

1:03:21Sal Di Stefano:What I imagine it happens is they value that over all the crazy other things that the world has to offer. And they go, yeah, cool. Oh, that's great. Oh, yeah. But I would give all that up to be back to, that's impressive. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I'd love to have someone on the show to talk to them about that.

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1:04:19Adam Schafer:Back to the show. our first caller is yaros from the czech republic what's up yaros what's happening dude how you doing hey guys all's going well thank you so much for taking my call and big hello from over the other side of the pond yeah how can we help you awesome so uh i'll jump right in uh to give a little bit of background to my question um a while ago i started with maps anabolic and after doing that for some time i ended up developing a little uh some joint pain specifically in my left elbow the left knee and the right wrist. I ended up getting a maps prime to address some of those issues.

1:04:53And that was really helpful as well. But what I found was quite some big glaring differences in some different sides, uh, sides of the body. So for example, really obvious one would be when doing the 1990, for example, sitting on one side of the body, like sitting on my right side of the body, having the legs on the left side, uh, was completely comfortable and felt really, really good. But then on the other side, it was really, really a lot more challenging. And the same with the wrists, I noticed big differences in the wrists. And my main question is, how would you recommend to address this if I should be doing kind of focusing just on the side that is worse?

1:05:30Or if I should be kind of half and half anyways, doing both sides with these things or something in between. And then I'd have two quick follow ups as well. That's okay. Yeah, good question.

1:05:39Adam Schafer:So you still want to do both, but you want to focus more on the side that needs the help. Okay, so what it looks like is more intensity, more focus on the side that is the problem area. Now, what you would do, what this would look like, let's say you're doing the 90-90, is when you get into position, you start with the side that, let's say you start with the side that's easy. You sit in that position and just kind of hold it for a little bit and just kind of sit there for a little bit. Then when you get to the other side, you really work at improving mobility. So that's what it looks like. What you don't want to do is ignore one side completely because you can actually cause problems doing that as well.

1:06:15Adam Schafer:So you do both, but more of the focus and the intensity is on the side that needs more help.

1:06:20Sal Di Stefano:I actually, even like my clients and myself, I actually like the same way we recommend the lifting. I actually do the weaker side first just to, so your intent is there, right? So like, okay, and this is, by the way, this is really common. Some people, it's more glaring than others. I had the exact same thing. You know, just I lacked internal rotation on the right side versus the left. And so I just I started on that and I just a lot more a lot of intensity into really working on it. And then when I got to the side that I'm already good at, it was just kind of like it was more going through the motions, let's say.

1:06:53Sal Di Stefano:So when I went on the side that I have less mobility, less connection to, I'm really I'm starting on that side. There's a lot of intent. There's a lot of focus. and then when I get to the side that has good mobility, I just kind of go through the motion. So I still want to do it and practice it, but the intent and focus is just really on that side that I lack the most. So to Sal's point, you're going to still do both, but you're really focused on the other side. And then if you don't have already, I love to send you Map Symmetry. That's the program for you. So if you pair Map Symmetry with some of those Maps Prime Pro 9090s and movements together, it's such a great – this will really balance you out after a full cycle that you'll notice a huge progression by, by running those together.

1:07:36Sal Di Stefano:Do you have that yet? No, no. I have maps on a book, maps, prime, my prime, poor pro. Yeah. This would be a great time for you to do a lot of unilateral work, which is map symmetry is based off that. So keep doing what you're doing already from prime pro. And, and by the way, too, like, that's the natural progression from there. Cause then we strengthen it. Right. So you regain that sort of range of motion where you're stable and controlled and then start strengthening it with tension. And then we start adding a bit of load through, you know, isolating it with this unilateral focus. But, yeah, I think that would be a great follow up for you.

1:08:08Sal Di Stefano:And keep in mind, you know, frequency is king here over intensity. Right. So like when I talk to clients about stuff like this, you know, they might be good at like right before their workout or maybe one day they focus on mobility. And it's like, man, I would rather you get down and get in that 90, 90, three, four times in the day for two minutes than, you know, one day a week for an hour. Right. It's more valuable to you to just every time you kind of think about it, you're at home playing with the kids, doing your thing. You just slide down to get in the 90. I would just work on that. Replace your sitting with it as much as possible.

1:08:42Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, that will serve you and move you along so much faster than like just one day a week of high intensity mobility or only doing it when you work out. you'll notice your progression a lot more that way.

1:08:55Adam Schafer:The other thing to consider, Jaros, is when you start to see repeated pain and injuries, so it's like multiple joints, multiple issues, and you didn't injure it, it's not like you did something to hurt it, but it just starts to ache and whatever, that often points to a few different things. One, overuse injury. I'm doing the same plane of movement, too much. I'm not moving outside of that. Two, I'm doing too much exercise or too much intensity for what I can handle at the moment. And that's, it could be quite complex. I'm getting poor sleep. So now the same workout is too much workout or I've been working out too hard for too long.

1:09:33Adam Schafer:Or it could be my, I'm not feeding myself appropriately. So you got to look at all that because whenever I start to feel all these, like, uh-oh, one thing hurts. Now the other thing hurts. Now the other thing hurts. Yeah. It's typically that. It's not just, I got mobility issues. It's like, I'm training. Most time it's a deficiency of like, how often do you move laterally? How often do you rotate? Yeah, you got to really kind of assess that in your programming, in your daily activities.

1:09:56Sal Di Stefano:Which, by the way, that would be the ultimate progression from symmetry, right? That's right. So the ideal pathway we go right now is we do what you're doing right now, keep focusing on Prime Pro, go through symmetry. And then after symmetry, we do a program like, let's say, old-timing, something that's going to challenge like rotation and some of those things and to keep that mobility, to keep that stability and strength. month the other thing to consider too is i don't know if you've tried to figure out the root cause like uh you know and it could be all the things the guy said it could also be your job i don't know what you do all day uh sometimes people that have what is it uh so my job so um i i don't want to say i'm a dancer i have a dance school but it's not something that i'm doing like extremely professionally or very intensively i think the root cause was um probably too much weight i feel like that was it and for example with the knees um i i think of um a skill level of technique was having an issue so i ended up figuring out that i tend to stand a little bit on the inside of my foot oh good and that causes my knees to go in a little bit uh but maybe along this what we're talking about right now would you mind if i just kind of tell you the three things that i've changed in my workouts in order to yeah joint choose and you tell me if you feel like i'm kind of missing something or not yeah um so basically i mentioned that i was doing maps anabolic i'm still doing that one and before i was just doing that by myself i would get right into it start off with a couple sets of higher and higher weights for example for the deadlift starting three sets or something of slightly increasing weights and then going into the program uh right now what i started doing is i started taking about 15 minutes before every workout to focus on this mobility stuff specifically on the issues um stuff from my mind pump uh my sorry maps pro prime pro mainly uh so I started to take about 15 minutes before the workouts on this.

1:11:45I started generally speaking, trying to focus on slightly lowering the weight and increasing reps first several times before increasing weight. I feel like the issues were probably coming from, from too much weight. And now that I lowered it and focusing first and growing the reps before adding weight, that's the second thing that I'm doing. And so third thing is that when I was feeling like it's active the pain and still there, then I'm kind of skipping out completely some exercises or replacing them again with mobility. So for example, instead of biceps curls or triceps extensions from behind the back.

1:12:22So I would just do like light sets of Zat-Mens and then jump into the other MAPS anabolic workouts. So those are the three things that I'm kind of adapted and I feel like it's improving and helping, but would love to hear if you feel like it's along the right track.

1:12:38Adam Schafer:Jaros, how many times have you done MAPS anabolic in a row now? Uh, so I did it two years ago for like three months. And then now half a year ago, I went back into it. And, um, for the last maybe three months or so, I've been doing it relatively consistently twice a week. Okay. And then, and so, so you got in, so you've redone it a couple of times in a row. I know what, I got stuck in phase one and I just was progressing in the one phase. uh like um i think there are like three phases right i was just kind of in one phase slowly growing the reps weights in that one phase which might be yes that's absolutely so here's the deal what you're doing right now is band-aids so if i was training a power lifter with a competition then we would do what you're doing because uh not moving out into different programming you got a competition coming up that's not really an option so we're gonna have to kind of band-aid things until we get to the competition.

1:13:38Adam Schafer:What you need to do is cycle out of maps and a ball maps and a bulk is so effective at getting you really strong in one plane of movement. What tends to happen to people is they stay there and then they're going to hurt. You're going to hurt. And I don't care how much mobility you do because the mobility is never going to equate the same intensity and drive and focus as the workout. Unless your mobility is taking, you're spending more time on that than the workouts, which is almost never the case. So you need to go into symmetry then you need to go in performance and then maybe go back into maps anabolic but you've been stuck in maps anabolic for for too long especially phase one yeah gotcha gotcha makes

1:14:14Sal Di Stefano:sense yeah and it does makes by the way it does make sense that you feel better doing the things you're doing those were good like salsa band-aids like that was those were good options if you were going to continue that path but there's better options for you right now and a better option for you right now would be to go to symmetry focus on the mobility move through move through all the phases as they're laid out so like that there definitely is a reason why we only block things in three or four weeks and then we move on because that this is very common and and the idea that we try and build in all the programming is to make sure that it's balanced like that and if you stay in a phase for a really long time this tends to happen especially anabolic and so would you recommend i go to phase two of anabolic or i write the symmetry no go right you're done with maps anabolic yeah yeah yeah right yeah right to some and i wouldn't bring you back like sal said to anabolic till after a whole cycle of symmetry a whole cycle of performance or old-timey and then go back then go back to mass now what's cool is if we do you do a good job and consistent with your prime pro you do good in symmetry and consistent you go through performance when you come back to maps anabolic you're going to feel like a beast yeah you're going to feel all

1:15:23Adam Schafer:the strength stability around your joints.

1:15:25Sal Di Stefano:You'll feel stronger than you've ever felt. You'll feel you won't have the aches and pains. You're going to feel amazing when you do that, if you follow it that way. Gotcha. Gotcha. Makes perfect sense. And maybe just super quick last follow up. Is there any, Jesus, supplements for joint specifically? I know I was in Spain right now, visiting my dad. He said something about collagen. I don't know anything about it, but is there something would you recommend for joint pain?

1:15:51Adam Schafer:No, I mean, you could take things that are again, you're going to kind of bandaid things. If you stay well hydrated, you're eating adequate protein. There's some supplements that'll help with inflammation, fish oil, high EPA fish oil and a regular red light therapy. But yeah, but it's not going to, it's not going to fix the problem. Gotcha. Gotcha. Cool. Makes sense. All right. Thank you so much. That was really, really helpful. And I'll be really looking forward to the map symmetry. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And thank you guys for all the episodes that you do. You really helped switch my health and fitness life to a better direction over the last couple of years.

1:16:22So really appreciate your time. Thank you, man. Appreciate it, brother.

1:16:27Adam Schafer:Yeah. I think, uh, here's why we write our programs the way we do. It's, it's not to, uh, necessarily. Yes, it is to continue you progressing, but what are we considering with that plateaus with progress? Yes. Uh, potential injury. Yes. That's also what's going to plateau you getting too strong just in one direction. Now the reason why I knew, what the answer was. I just had to ask him the questions just to confirm it. And it's because it wasn't just one joint. It's like my right wrist, my left elbow, my left knee. Whole body's talking to you. Yeah, so it's like either you're over-trained, you have terrible sleep, or you're doing the same things over and over and over and over again and you're not moving outside of that.

1:17:08Adam Schafer:And you can do mobility to remedy it to an extent, but it's not going to outweigh It just dampens the signal a bit. Yeah, it doesn't fix it. 100%. Yeah, yeah. Our next caller is Lori from Canada. Hi, Lori.

1:17:20Sal Di Stefano:Hi, Lori. Hi, guys. This is incredibly surreal talking to you. So thank you so much for having me. Yeah. I just want to take a couple of minutes to really thank you for everything you do. I honestly can't even count how many times I've referred to my podcast when I talk about Mind Pump. I really appreciate everything you share, not just about fitness, but parenting and your faith journeys. I've been listening for just over a year and have learned so much. and I really want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for how much your content carried me through my first pregnancy and postpartum and try not to get emotional because I'm still postpartum.

1:17:55I blame my hormones. I was honestly really nervous about how I'd manage pregnancy weight gain just because of issues I've had in the past but from what I learned from you guys I didn't fall into crash dieting or overtraining. I felt informed and empowered and able to trust my body. I used maps 15 during my third trimester all the way up until the day before I went into labor and I did map starter postpartum then 15 and 15 performance gave me structure and confidence during an overwhelming time I'm proud of how I managed it but I give a lot of credit to you guys for helping

1:18:27Sal Di Stefano:getting me through it so thank you so much wow awesome thank you yeah so now to my question um I'm going to provide a little bit of context after I ask it just for where the question's coming from So my question is, what advice do you have for raising kids to have a healthy relationship with food? For the context, I have struggled with my weight and body image for most of my life. I was overweight from a really young age. And although I started going to the gym and getting healthier in my 20s, and I'm now 32, I spent years doing all of the wrong things, endless cardio, program hopping, overtraining, under eating, and then led to dealing with binge eating, orthorexia, and body dysmorphia for many years.

1:19:08Um, the last five years have been much better. And honestly, your podcast has helped a lot with that in the last year and a half, but I do still struggle with food noise and feeling a lot of guilt when I eat off track. So now I'm a mom to a nine month old son, and I do hope to have more children, but I worry about passing on my struggles with food down to my kids. Adam, I've heard you talk a lot about how you've managed sugar with max, and I love the approach. I've talked to my husband a lot about it, and he's very much on board. And I've tried implementing it already. And I've already gotten some pushback from friends and family.

1:19:41When I say something like, yeah, he doesn't need a lick of your ice cream. It's okay. I get responses like, oh, or, you know, comments that I'm being too restrictive, or that I might be projecting my issues onto my son. I just don't feel that a nine month old really needs added sugar at this point in his life. And again, like I said, my husband is fully on board and supportive and happy to step in if someone's not listening. But still, just not only managing our home, but also input and judgment from others, it's a challenge. So I'd just love to hear your thoughts both on how to help kids develop a healthy relationship with food and how to confidently hold those boundaries when others are questioning your parenting choices regarding health and fitness.

1:20:22Sal Di Stefano:That's a great, great, great question. And I mean, personally, I mean, I can always speak to this from my personal experience. By no means do I think I'm an expert in this at all, but I do think that one of the best decisions that Katrina ever made was sticking together on this. We, too, had a conversation around this. We kind of knew that we both have families, a lot of sugar, a lot of stuff like that around, that it was going to be challenging. And so I think the number one thing, which is what you guys have already done, is make sure that you're united on it and you agree that I think this is good.

1:20:54Sal Di Stefano:And I would communicate to them when they say things like that, because of course they would say that oh you're gonna he's gonna binge when he gets older because he's gonna rebel and it's it's like oh no I he's gonna be able to have candy and ice cream as a kid like I absolutely when he can talk to me and ask me for it I'll I'll cross that bridge but until he can talk it's a hell no right now because he doesn't even he doesn't even know if he wants it or not and so I don't feel like introducing that to him like and so I we really stuck hard to that it was the first year was probably a little rough with the family but then after a while they started to get it and respect it and and especially when I would confirm with them like hey don't worry um I I do want him I want him to have ice cream I want him to have enjoy those things but please don't rob that of me like as as the parent like I I want to be able to to give them that and do that with them and you going behind my back or doing things like that is you're robbing me of that.

1:21:49Sal Di Stefano:And that's not fair. And don't worry, he's going to get his ice cream and candy. And one day you guys can go get a scoop together. And I look forward to that. And, but right now we've just agreed to these early stages that we want to help shape his palate. And so, uh, and, and a lot of that looked like for me, just, you know, max ate what we ate, uh, you know, just chopped up smaller versions of it. And so we just normalize, like we didn't, we never talked about food. I never said, this is a good food. This is a bad food. This is, this is what we eat. And so I think a lot of it stems from just consistency around the two of you as parents and what you guys make for dinner and what you're around.

1:22:29Sal Di Stefano:We just, we never ate fast food. We never did things like that. We, we cooked. In fact, when we had him, we really ramped up the consistency around making our meals for like now, now he's older and he knows what chicken on the stick is. and we get food delivered. And by the way, my son gets ice cream cake. He gets all the things now, but it's amazing to watch his relationship with it. He has no crazy pull for it. I can offer him one bite of it and he's fine. He doesn't ask for more. There's a lot of times where I've actually given him unfettered access because he's at a party with other kids and he'll take a bite and put it down.

1:23:05Sal Di Stefano:And he doesn't care. He doesn't have this pull and urge. And a lot of times some of the stuff is so sweet and overpowering. he's like, ah, daddy, I don't like it. And he prefers things like fruit and cocoa whip, like that cocoa whip and fruit to my son is like the most. And I really attribute that to shaping his palate in those early years, uh, by being consistent with the types of foods that we ate and keeping every, all the family members at bay with feeding him the sugar. And so, and now I don't even manage it. It's incredible. It's a really cool thing that I think we both look back and go like, yeah, that was the right call.

1:23:40Sal Di Stefano:So that's been my experience and kind of how we handled both the family and then also about, I do think, and I'm sure you've heard Sal talk about this before, like you really do not want your kids to catch you shaming yourself for diet choices or talking about your body in relation to the food that we eat. It's fuel, it's energy, it's all positive in that matter. And honestly, I don't think you even need to have that much of a conversation around it for a long time. I don't even think it's necessary yet with my son. We just do the thing. That's how we eat, you know?

1:24:15Adam Schafer:Yeah, Lori, I want to address the shame part because that can be really, really challenging. And I mean, you know this, you mentioned faith, like we're all in need of grace. We're so far from deserving it. It's not even funny. The more you realize it, the more you can extend it to other people, including yourself. So, and this is very difficult when you have children because the mistakes you make become so obvious because you love this human so much. And so it's really easy to be like, oh my God, I'm not perfect. Oh my God, I did this thing. So be, you know, be careful with that and feel, you know, feel God's grace.

1:24:54Adam Schafer:That's the only way you'll be able to extend it. When it comes to the habits that our children develop. The data is pretty clear on it. Children, their habits come from our habits, not from what we tell them to do. So the most effective thing you can do to help your children develop a better relationship with food is for you to have a better relationship with food. That's 90 something percent of it. Yeah, I'm working a lot on that. That's it. That's going to do everything. That's going to do everything. Now let's get to the family part because this becomes a little bit more complicated um how often are your children with family is grandma watching them on a regular basis or is it more like visiting like what does it look like we visit with my mom like right now she's at home full-time recovering from an injury so and I'm on maternity leave so we're there pretty frequently and you know she's got the classic like well she's at he's at bep's house it's okay and I'm just like no no I hate that rule.

1:25:51Um, like it's just, and she's getting it. I think that's a big part of it. It's just, it seems like every new person that we encounter and we're pretty social people. Um, so he's not often somewhere without me at this stage, just cause that's just how it kind of is. Um, but yeah, I know that time will come as he gets a little bit older that he'll spend more time with people that when I might not be there, especially when I go back to work.

1:26:14Adam Schafer:So here's the, here are the things that you need to balance out. This is where it gets, I think, more clear. The most important thing that your son or your children can get with your, this is your mom or your mother-in-law? My mom. Your mom. Okay. The most important thing that your children are going to get with your mom is not the food that she gives them. It's the relationship that they have with her. There's nothing more important than that. Like their relationship with grandma is going to outweigh by far, it's not even the same universe to the foods that she gives them. So that's the, that's what you weigh.

1:26:47Adam Schafer:Okay. Now, because you guys are there so often and because it's your mom, this is going to, you can have lots of conversations with her and you can explain this to her and you can say, mom, I really need you to respect this because it's so important to me and I love you so much. And, uh, this is just, it's so important. Now, if this becomes a, this is going to ruin or really cause stress on the relationship between your mom and your children. Cause that can happen sometimes, you know, in my culture, my mom, she almost doesn't know how to show love in any other way than feeding you and hugging and kissing you.

1:27:27Adam Schafer:So it's like, I took, it's like, I took her hands and tied them behind her back. Okay. So there's a lot of conversation and my mom tries to do her best, but she, she goes outside the lines all the time and I'm okay with it because this is how she shows love and this is her limitation. And honestly, I want her relationship and my children's relationship to feel good. Because what ended up happening with my mom is she started to feel anxious. I don't know what to do. And we'd get texts. Is this okay? She'd send us pictures of things. Is that okay? Can I do this? I'm like, oh, this is making it so that she can't develop this relationship with my children.

1:28:01Adam Schafer:So I loosened up quite a bit, but there was a lot of conversations around. So that's what you end up weighing out with your kids and your mom. And it's a lot of conversation. And your mom will probably learn to respect it and get it because she doesn't get it now maybe. But she'll probably start to get it. And then it's going to be okay. And it's never going to be like it is with you. Your kids, the way that they eat and the way that you are with them will never be the same as it is with grandma or someone else that you really trust and love. but that's okay it's okay that it's looser at grandma's house because that's grandma and they have that kind of relationship it'll probably be like that with you and your grandkids and that's okay so that's the balance and i can't give you the perfect answer because i don't know what that is uh i don't know what your relationship is you know how you're gonna see that you'll have a much better read on that but that's the thing because because what can end up happening sometimes with fitness fanatics or people are really fitness minded is we can put so many restrictions that then we can turn it into a fight.

1:29:06Adam Schafer:Like, no, this is a line in the sand. I've actually heard and have, I've heard fitness fanatics say, well, I'm not taking him to grandma's house because she refuses to respect me. Oh, really? What happened? Did they give her, what did she do? She gives her a lollipop, gives them a lollipop. I'm like, I don't know if that's really a good trade-off. You know, she's not handing him cigarettes. So I don't know if that's really a good, you know, so that's the balancing that you kind of have to make. And then the other thing I would say is you want to minimize the conversations. with mom in front of child.

1:29:36Adam Schafer:Because that's what the child internalizes. So she's going to hand them ice cream. Mom, he can't eat that. Kid hears that. So you know what you do? You let him have the ice cream. And then when you go home. Talk to mom later. Hey, mom, I know you gave him ice cream. Please don't do that. Please don't do that anymore. Like, it's really important to me. But not in front of the kid. That's a really good point. I didn't think about it that way. Oh, it's a big deal because the kid, what they start to do is they start to pick sides.

1:30:00Sal Di Stefano:And that's where they'll rebel. That will cause a rebellious behavior because it'll be like, my mom never lets me do this.

1:30:05Adam Schafer:And then it's like, or what's more likely to happen because your mom is when they're little. Now, when they're older, they'll rebel against you. But when they're little, they go, they side with mom. Grandma's not good. Grandma doesn't care about us. Grandma doesn't care about my health. That's what happens when they're really little. I mean, you know, I think about that when you were a kid, if you overheard your mom talk about someone in a particular way, that became your opinion about that person. Later, you were able to make a better judgment. Sometimes you see this happen with divorced couples, right?

1:30:33Adam Schafer:Mom talks about dad. Now the kid has to pick a side. So always keep it in front of the kid. Oh, they're eating the ice cream. Just swallow it. That's all right. It's fine. They're going to eat the ice cream.

1:30:42Sal Di Stefano:Just to address, though, the challenge that he's just, one of the ways we handled this challenge, and we still do this today, is when we drop Max off at family, we send him with his food. That's what we do. Exactly. Yeah, that was kind of something I did. That takes me. They always bring food when we go. That solves 90 % of that. Yeah. It's just, and they appreciate it because he's already got his meals ready. They don't got to think about it. They just get to play with him and enjoy him. And Katrina would be like, hey, at 11 o 'clock, he eats this. At 1 o 'clock, he eats this. And sometimes he doesn't eat all of it, whatever.

1:31:12Sal Di Stefano:But they have something laid out. There's not an excuse for them to go feed him something else. He's already got his food with him. That solves 90 % of that right there. And yes, that takes a little extra effort on our part to prepare and do that. But we cared that much about that. And I think the family starts to get it when they see you putting that effort into it. They're like, okay, they're really trying to control the way he's eating these foods. Maybe I should help. And we had a little bit of the pushback early. But because we consistently spoke to the family about it, because we did the meals like that, they started to get on board.

1:31:47Sal Di Stefano:And now I tell you what, you talk to any of them, they're all blown away. They're all, damn, we were wrong about that. because he's got this incredible relationship with sweets and stuff.

1:31:57Adam Schafer:And by the way, speak encouragement to people that really, you know the people that really love your kids. Your mom probably really loves your kids. So it's not some, you know. She adores him. So with my mom, at first it turned into like, this is the way it is, mom, respect me. And it just turned into this weird. And then it was like, you know, I love how much you love the kids. I love how much you want them to enjoy these things. And that changed the dynamic around that conversation. But I did what Adam, that's what we do with now. What Adam said is we send them with food and then it becomes much easier for them to manage.

1:32:26Sal Di Stefano:And I, you know, another way to say that and how it helped us too, is I asked them to help me. Hey, this is, this is hard for me to be consistent with this. I don't want to give them processed foods. I don't want to give them stuff that. And it takes a lot of extra effort. So anyway, you can help me, please help me. Totally. And so framing it like that. Then I have other family members who was like a stern talk. Don't fucking give him any loss. I'm going to whoop your ass. Like, so it just depends if we're talking to grandma. There's going to be a couple people living at my house. Exactly. So if I'm talking to my brother-in-law, that's how I'm talking to him, right?

1:32:52Sal Di Stefano:It's my mother-in-law. It's like, mom, can you help me? You know? And so, you know, you got to approach everybody a little bit different, but those are the things I think that, that's all that. And there, let me tell you, there was a couple of times in there where we had, it happened. It wasn't a big deal. If it was consistency around them whole foods and the way we did stuff like that, I think it's, it was one of the best things we ever did. Awesome. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you guys taking the time.

1:33:16Adam Schafer:Yeah. Thank you so much for calling in. Thank you very much. Have a great day. Good luck. Yeah. Parents that smoke rarely ever tell their kids to smoke. They almost always tell their kids not to smoke. What does the data show? The kids are far more likely to smoke. Parents that yell, parents that, you know, drink, whatever. Your kids, what you do is far more impactful than what you say. For sure. And so if you're. It's everything. If you have a relationship with food that is dysfunctional and you don't want your kids to have that relationship, The best thing you can do is work on yourself. It's just the fact.

1:33:52Sal Di Stefano:Listen, one of the hardest things to do in this scenario is to do the things that you can do and not worry about the uncontrollables, right? Like the one time grandma does the lollipop or the thing. It's like, it's already difficult enough to eat whole foods and cook for a family every single night and be consistent with that and or send your kid with their food already. Like that's work. It takes a lot of work. So you should be mainly focusing on that. And if you crush that and do that consistently, then even if some of the family members don't listen and don't abide and step out of the boundary of the diet, you're going to be okay.

1:34:25Sal Di Stefano:It's not that big of a deal. It's not that big of a deal. And eventually you'll be fine anyways. But if you're inconsistent with that and then they're also doing that, well - No, it's always inconsistent. Yeah. Then it's very inconsistent. And then really, which one is really affecting them more? The inconsistency you're doing at home or the once in a while that grandma or uncle or does the thing. So I think the main focus should be on ourselves.

1:34:47Adam Schafer:Our next caller is Neely from Texas. Hi, Neely. How you doing, Neely? Hi. Hi, guys. I'm like starstruck right now. And also, I also feel like I'm talking to my friend slash probably therapist a little bit. So this is good.

1:35:05So I'm going to start like everybody else. Thank y 'all so much. Really appreciate all of y 'all's advice and just information that you put out, it really feels good to know that there are people advocating for health and fitness the correct way. And also from, you know, the faith aspect, it's really cool to have that as a part of this is something I'm so passionate about. So I do want to say that I apologize in advance. I'm a little bit long-winded and my question slash story here is a bit um long so just cut me off if you need to um but I think y 'all heard I am a doctor um I'm an optometrist I'm 27 I just graduated a year ago so still kind of new to you know doing it all on my own and not being in the school environment.

1:36:03But I am currently weighing in about 170 pounds, switching focuses to the health side. That's typically where I feel comfortable. I am a chronic extreme over trainer. This is going on 10 plus years. I've pushed my body to pretty much every limit possible. Never felt like I did enough. all the mottos that y 'all say not to use like I'll sleep when I'm dead no pain no gain no days off that is how I live my life I didn't leave the gym unless I couldn't walk out or was drenched in sweat so yeah basically every time y 'all say one of those things I'm like ouch that's me obviously this was a body dysmorphia issue but the gym was also my safe place and it's where I went to release stress from all of the schooling.

1:37:00You know, four years in optometry school, there was a lot of stress on the school sides of things. So I went to the gym to try to, you know, release some of that. This probably started after my second knee injury in high school. So I tore cartilage off the bone in my left knee, my junior year of high school. I tore my ACL my senior year in high school in my right knee. So probably my identity was a little bit tied up in the athlete thing. I went on to college not pursuing an athletic career. So it's kind of hard to let go, especially considering the majority of my family played some sport at a collegiate level.

1:37:42But all of this just developed a very unhealthy relationship with food, my body, a toxic cycle that just kind of has continued throughout all the years. In 2023, about two years ago now, I had a third major knee surgery. During one of my extreme workouts, I had an injury. It wasn't anything crazy, but it felt different. Since both my surgeries in high school, I had dealt with pain and kind of told myself I was a wimp. Anytime I would, you know, be like, oh, maybe I shouldn't work out today. I convinced myself that I needed to keep going. So this felt different. And I was like, I know I need to go see a doctor.

1:38:28So I did that area where I had had that cartilage repaired was completely gone. So I was just bone on bone. They also told me that I had bone spurs in both knees. And they kind of told me that I had like moderate stage arthritis. I had two options. I could just live my life as a normal human and just plan to have a knee replacement at around 35. Or I could undergo this major knee surgery. It was a combination. I don't, these are big fancy words, but osteochondral osteograph combined with a distal femoral osteotomy. So basically just shy of a total knee replacement. They thought it would help my pain and kind of prolong having to have the knee replacement.

1:39:11And so far, like that has been true. So I did have this surgery. Um, and they pretty much told me that either option, you know, I was really going to have to cut back on the way that I was, um, training for get running. I ran every day. So all of these things were just a lot to take in. Thankfully, recovery did go as smoothly as possible. Um, and it was during recovery that I found y 'all's podcast. Um, and it was really a relief to hear like, this may have actually been like a major blessing that I like am now forced to, um, stop training like an idiot and really cut back. Obviously I didn't see it that way for a really long time.

1:39:56And that's kind of where I'm still at struggling with just that mentality of like wanting to do more, but trying to listen to my body and take care of it. My training has changed considerably. I'm really just lifting right now and not anything heavy, not near what I was before. So that has just been really difficult to kind of overcome, as well as like the food aspect. Again, y 'all helped me a lot there. Whereas before just eating literally as little as I could during a day and always feeling like I was starving to now, like I do prioritize like protein. I'm eating full meals, three full meals at the very least.

1:40:41I don't track because of my history with issues, but I know I'm around 150 grams of proteins a day. um so just to add to all of that I did recently get blood work done um because I was in a period where I felt like I was gaining all this weight and I was just very unhappy and refused to believe that it was just because I turned 27 that you know my hormones were out of whack or whatever um so my testosterone was low which is what I went in telling the doctor I was worried about um she didn't offer me any advice um surrounding that she actually didn't even reach out to me after the lab results I had to go to a different doctor with my results um my progesterone and my DHEA were normal but they were both also on the lower end of course I was deficient in vitamin D um so all that to say after I went to the second doctor with my results she actually recommended me to start a GLP-1.

1:41:46I was not opposed to this as I have used one before. And the way that it changed the mental side of things, which Adam has talked on a lot, that was like the biggest game changer for me was to like have a quiet mind and not like be so in my head. Um, so I did start that again at the lowest dose. Um, and honestly, after using it for a couple weeks, I would, I felt 10 times better than I did before starting it. Um, now I've been using that for a couple of months and my appetite really isn't suppressed. Um, I still am eating about the same. It's just like, I feel better. Um, so I'm at this point where I am debating like coming back off of that and seeing what happens she also recommends starting testosterone and that was in one of my original questions when i wrote all of this was like whether or not that should that is something i pursue um i feel like i hear y 'all talk about it a lot with men i just wasn't super clear on like female um hormone replacement therapy with testosterone however again since i wrote this um i did i did start it and i've been using it for almost two weeks now um so again i apologize that was long-winded and probably too scatterbrained i guess my question

1:43:05Adam Schafer:go ahead sorry no that's great you just gave us context yeah yeah so so neely um so let me just quickly address the hormone replacement therapy um i'm always i'm typically pro that but because you're so young do you have children i don't do you plan on having children um probably and that That is something she talked about. And I'm doing a cream because of that. Yeah. So because of your age, typically what we can do when you work with a functional medicine practitioner is we can see the hormones typically respond pretty well on their own. So that would be the direction that I would go, especially considering the context you gave us of overtraining.

1:43:49Adam Schafer:You're a doctor. I've trained a lot of doctors. I know the mentality that it takes to become a doctor. It's also the mentality that it takes for you to be a hardcore athlete. It's this, like, I can go and I'm going to go and nothing's going to stop me type of attitude. But the side effect of that is you wear yourself down and you beat yourself up. You have a tolerance for pain. You have a tolerance for stress that's above and beyond most people. But it doesn't come without a cost. So I think a functional medicine practitioner would be much more appropriate because of your age. You're not done having kids.

1:44:22Adam Schafer:You don't have any yet. And I think you could probably get them balanced out by managing stress, managing gut health with somebody who's an expert in that. So I think that would be the direction that I would point you if you were my client. Now, let's talk about the workout portion. You did throw a wrench in what I typically would advise. So typically if I get a female who says I may have some body dysmorphia, I would push them towards focusing on performance. The problem with that with someone like you is you were an athlete. Yeah. And if I push you towards performance, it's not going to help.

1:44:56Adam Schafer:You're just going to hurt yourself. You're going to go too far in that direction. That's the potential risk with that. So I'm not going to push you towards performance. What I am going to say is there's a few things that you could do. One is I don't know if you're on social media, but I would get off social media because any any subconscious comparison to other people is going to skew your view of yourself. So I would get off social media completely, like literally no Instagram, no nothing. Don't go on it at all. You can listen to our podcast of course, but just get rid of it completely. And that'll actually start to change your attitude towards yourself.

1:45:34Adam Schafer:The second thing I would do, and you did mention faith. So I'm going to go there a little bit is there's a myth that you are, and this is a myth that, by the way, I identify so much with a lot of what you said. I still struggle with this. The myth is that you're in control. The myth is that you decide, but I think you know that that's not true. And so you're going to have to let go a little bit. And what I mean by that is it's going to give you a lot of worldly things, but it's going to come at a terrible cost. Career, workouts, all that stuff, good things, terrible gods. They will tyrannize you if they become an idol.

1:46:10Adam Schafer:So take a step back. uh, remember, care for yourself, like somebody worth caring for. And the thing you're going to have to focus on, and I hate saying this cause it sounds a bit broad is health. So that's don't aim for performance cause you're, you're so performance oriented. That's going to move you in the rock. Don't, don't aim towards aesthetics cause we know that's going to go start aiming towards health. And I think a functional medicine practitioner will be the best coach in that regard because they're going to look at a lot of different metrics that take into account stress, inflammation, hormones.

1:46:46Adam Schafer:They're probably going to recommend that you do things like, like if I were to give you a program right now, it would probably look like maps 15. Yes. If I were to recommend anything else, it would be in yoga. If I were to recommend any additional activity, it would be walking, um, prayer, meditation. Uh, because what we're going to try and do is take you out of this identity that has served you in a worldly way. This identity made you a good athlete. It also has gotten you to become a doctor, which is a very difficult thing to do. You have your own practice, it looks like, but that now is, it's starting to tyrannize you and maybe it has, it has for a while.

1:47:22Adam Schafer:So you're going to have to kind of move out of that. So you have to submit, you're going to point up, work with someone on health and aim towards health. And then what will probably happen, Neely is you'll start to see hormones balance out. You'll start to feel less pain when you go get, you know, tested for osteoarthritis, that it'll probably start to regress. You're so young and healthy that you'll probably see lots of really, really good improvements, but it's going to be a huge struggle because you have to break away from this relationship that in many ways has served you, but now you're, and by the way, I want to commend you the awareness that you have right now.

1:47:58Adam Schafer:I didn't get it 27. I'm starting to get it now at 46. And the awareness is this is not, this is not serving me. That's the hardest step. That's the hardest step. The rest of it now is just being obedient.

1:48:12Sal Di Stefano:So I, and I'm glad you went the direction of letting go because it's where my mind went right away. And I want you to train with one of my trainers. And the reason why I want that is not because I don't think you're smart enough to figure it out and we don't have the program that you can follow, but so you can let go and you can outsource it to somebody you trust. And I think that working with one of my coaches will help you do that. So you can just focus on the getting healthy, healing, and kind of outsourcing that, you know, that let them be your guide like that. And because I think one of the hardest parts about where you're currently at is getting in your own way.

1:48:49Sal Di Stefano:This is not something that you're going to muscle your way through or grit it and go, like it's, and it's so different than what has served you for so many years, getting to where you're at in your life, both in sports and in business. So I would highly recommend outsourcing that. I would love to have one of my coaches or trainers call you and work with you through this process, but it's going to look a lot different than probably how you've approached things for, and to know that that's going to be challenging, You know, to know that, you know, doing this a different way is going to be hard. There's going to be many times where you're going to be fighting with yourself.

1:49:27Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I should do this or, oh, I feel great. So I'm going to do this. And having somebody in your ear going, no, no, no, no, no. Let's just stay the course. You're doing great. Focus on these things. This is what I want you to do for this week. I think would be extremely valuable through this process.

1:49:40Adam Schafer:And let me just sell this a little bit to you, Neely. At the end of this, what it's going to feel like is good. You're going to feel balanced. Hormones are going to feel good. uh you're not going to hurt you're gonna have this realization of wow i i can do way less and get way more you'll have more time for other things uh in your life um but it's going to be a hard a bit of a hard journey because it'd be hard to let go because it sounds like it's something you've held on to really tight uh for a really long time but it's causing problems and the problems are going to start to get worse they're going to start to compound so you can band-aid things with hormones at 27.

1:50:19Adam Schafer:Uh, but it's going to, it's just going to, the signals are going to start to get really loud. Um, as you start to get into your thirties and especially in your forties. Yeah. So, uh, this is like a great place to, to, to take a different turn for sure. I feel for you and something that, um, kind of, I went through that was a real big metaphor and something that really kind of took me to that headspace was, uh, the first time I did like an ice cold plunge and realized, you know, bearing down and really tightening up and getting through it does not work. Letting go, breathing your way through that was the only way through.

1:50:57And so that kind of stuck with me just as like a physical and a mental image that I use to try to reframe everything. Like this is what's going to be the path. This is what I have to focus on. And it's hard because it's completely opposite of your operating system. So, you know, like Adam said, I think a coach will really help to kind of bring that out. Yeah. And I had a feeling that the conversation would go this way, which I almost just needed to hear. But I mean, and it is. Y 'all probably all experience this. And I've heard other callers like say it too, like how hard it is to let go of that.

1:51:38and the fact that I've allowed it to be the stress release, but then also, like, it is an idol, and it is, like, the thing that I have the hardest time, like, letting go of. I definitely think, like, accountability would be good. I assumed y 'all would tell me to just do match 15 and, like, get over it. But, yeah, I mean, I definitely agree with those things. It's just like really hard to like, when I feel like it's the thing that makes my day, makes me a better person. So it's like, I struggle with, well, I'm going to be in a bad mood if I don't go. So like, I'm going to, I'm still going to go.

1:52:18Totally.

1:52:18Adam Schafer:I know exactly what you're talking about. I know exactly what you feel. Exercise is good. Diet is good. It's not God. It's not the ultimate good, but it is good. But so finding where that is, is hard. So yeah, and by the way, when you break the chains of an idol, at first you do get angry because it's almost like withdrawal. Like, oh, my thing, you know, the thing that I use. I'm struggling with this right now. I'm trying to work through this right now myself. Does this look like not working out? That doesn't sound like a good idea. Like I thought exercise is good. And just like you, man, I feel better when I do it.

1:52:58Adam Schafer:So how do I find that balance? So it's, that's why it's a, it's a hard needle to thread. We're not talking about cocaine. I can be like, Hey, stop, stop using cocaine. It's not serving you in any way. We're talking about exercise. Most people don't even exercise. So, so I totally get it. And as far as like, you know, I mentioned, I still in microdosing the GLP one, is that something you think I should probably try to like get off of? I mean, I do genuinely think that it has made me feel better, but I can also admit that on the other side of things, I know what it's doing for me image-wise.

1:53:33Sal Di Stefano:Eventually, eventually. But it's okay right now. Say you get started with one of the coaches. That's not the first thing they're going to say. Oh, let's get rid of your GLP-1. That's not even – if you feel it's helping you, it's also not killing the appetite so I know you can get the food that I need you to get. I'm not even worrying about that right now. It's a tool that's helping.

1:53:54Adam Schafer:Yeah, microdosing GLP-1s seem to reduce inflammation in the brain. So you're not getting this huge appetite suppression, you're saying, but you probably feel better because there was some chronic inflammation that you're dealing with. So it's probably good. Yeah. Yeah, that's not even – like the top 10 things that a coach, a good coach would have you work on right now, it's not even in that yet. Correct. Yeah. Look, I tell you what, I really want to commend you for calling in and the awareness at 27 years old is remarkable. Absolutely remarkable. And I 100 % identify with your struggles. I know what it's like.

1:54:32Adam Schafer:The other end of this is probably going to be amazing.

1:54:35Sal Di Stefano:You're going to enjoy Sal's series that he's about to start right now. I'm going to start a series on this and it's going to suck, and I know it is. It's actually going to be centered around what we're talking about right now. So you're going to enjoy that series.

1:54:48Adam Schafer:Yeah, you get to see me sweat and squirm on the other end of this conversation. I get to give myself advice, which I hate. Well, yeah, I've really appreciated all of y 'all's transparency, but especially around that. That is something that I've like, I listened to that episode like immediately when it came out. I was like, yeah, I need to hear this. So it's obviously good to know other people. Like, it's good to hear, which is why this email has sat in my drafts for so long because I was like, oh, they hear this all the time. but then also you know it is encouraging when i hear someone else say similar things to me like

1:55:22Sal Di Stefano:knowing neely this is so common you have no and part of i want you to i want you to uh i want to repeat something that sal said earlier uh and this is the reason why i i'm willing to say 80 maybe more of all the fitness influencers that you follow struggle with this oh yeah and that is what has made them these influencers is they're obsessed with it they have made it their idol uh they grit through it uh and you have no idea all the things that they're struggling with internally and all the other shit in their life that's out of balance but we you know admire them and uh work towards this thing and they're but they're suffering that and they're not going to admit it and tell you uh because they're selling health and fitness to you and they've used their physiques and their bodies and their success with that as a way to sell whatever it is they're selling very few are going to admit it but let me tell you way more people suffer from this it's

1:56:16Adam Schafer:actually rare to find a fitness fanatic that doesn't struggle with this it's actually very rare

1:56:22Sal Di Stefano:yeah for sure yeah all right neely i'm gonna have i'm gonna have one of our coaches reach out to you and schedule a call and then uh hopefully we'll be uh hearing back from you too no matter what i'd like to regardless if you go with one of our coaches we got this i'd like to hear back from you yeah absolutely i really appreciate that and y 'all's time and everything y 'all do all right uh yeah yeah it's tough that's tough but like you said 27 years old good for you to be able

1:56:48Adam Schafer:to see that early would i have number one would i have said any of that at 27 no would i have said it on a podcast hell no i was i was all in and it was this is me and this is what i do and this is how i get what i want and whatever and i got control and i can make it happen that was me my whole life, but it causes some serious problems. And it's much more common. It's so common in our space, it's not even funny. Like I said, I can't even think. To be honest with you, I can't even think of a fitness person.

1:57:19Sal Di Stefano:I think 80 is a conservative number. You're being nice. Yeah, I think 80 is a conservative number. Totally.

1:57:23Adam Schafer:But look, here's the other one. By the way, this looks different for different people. I mean, to become a doctor or to get into a very challenging field, you adept you excuse me uh adopt a persona and an identity that gets you through it it's served

1:57:42Sal Di Stefano:her so then how do you get out of that because it's served you for so long that's why i really hope that she i hope she takes our advice with the coach because i know i mean and you know you're right outsourcing it yeah exactly i'll do what you said when you said let go that i was already on that place it's like you just let go of this like you probably have the dispensable income to do this this is something you should invest in and watch it watch her be better at her craft better at all the other things in life. She could let go because she's probably

1:58:07Adam Schafer:got a grip on all of it.

1:58:08Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, for sure.

1:58:08Adam Schafer:Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram. You can find us at Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

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