2658: Nine Tips to Gain 5 Pounds of Lean Muscle in 60 Days & More (Listener Coaching)

18:19Adam Schafer:I'm going to tell you right now, if you gain zero strength and you gain five pounds on the scale, you probably didn't gain muscle. Probably. You have to be doing everything right to really increase strength and see that continually kind of improve. So yeah, that's a good indicator that the rest, recovery, everything else is accounted for.

18:37Sal Di Stefano:And your point earlier you made, this is your biggest bang for your buck movements right here. This is going to pile on the most amount of muscle in the shortest period of time.

18:44Adam Schafer:That's right. Next up, let's talk about supplements, creatine. There is no better natural, healthy muscle building supplement than creatine. Take 10 grams a day, break it up into probably three servings though. For most people, 10 grams in one serving is going to cause some digestive distress. So for some of you, 10 grams all at once is totally fine. But if you start to get digestive issues like bloating or diarrhea or whatever, you know, three grams a few times a day will give you this. And 10 grams, in my experience, tends to work better than just five grams for muscle building. I know the data shows five grams.

19:17Adam Schafer:There's more cognitive benefits when you go higher than that. Let's go for 10. Let's go for 10, but split it up.

19:21Sal Di Stefano:I was going to say, that's a relatively new recommendation from you because typically, if you go back, I mean, if you go back to listen to us talk about this before, you've probably heard us recommend three to five. That's right.

19:31Adam Schafer:Yeah. Now I've changed my mind on this because the data on cognitive benefits shows higher. And if you're, and here's the deal, when we talk about muscle strength, athletic performance, like you're trying to lift heavier, whatever your central nervous system plays a huge role. And the seat of the central nervous system is your brain. This is why taking a stimulant will make you suddenly stronger. Your muscles didn't get any bigger, your brain is firing differently. So it makes sense to me that we're going to also feed the brain if we're trying to build muscle, if we're trying to get stronger. So 10 grams a day is now what I would recommend for something like this.

20:07Adam Schafer:Next up is the tempo. The tempo at which you lift, nobody does this. This is called a 4-2-2 tempo. This has been shown in the data in head-to-head comparisons to build the most muscle. Now this isn't the only tempo you should ever train in. There's value in all the different tempos, especially if you've been stuck in one for a long time. But I can pretty much guarantee 85 % of the people watching or listening to this, don't use this tempo. Use it. This is a four-second negative, two seconds at the bottom, two seconds up. So it's four, two, two. It emphasizes all three contractions. And so it really helps you to understand how to control that lift and squeeze out as much performance from your muscles as possible.

20:51Sal Di Stefano:You know this is one of my favorite go-tos. I mean, I remember when I first read that and then I like just observed. I mean, and if you're listening right now and you're in the gym, like literally just look around right now and observe the people that are doing lifts and count their tempo and show me somebody who does like a true 4-2-2. So even though it's like the most optimal tempo yet you never see anybody do it highlighted to me quickly, like, Oh, there's an opportunity right here. Even when I get like an advanced lifter who hired me, it would be like, have we done this? And then I would make them on a very strict 4-2-2 and right away we saw results.

21:26Adam Schafer:Yeah. Sometimes this is all you need to change

21:27Sal Di Stefano:for some people.

21:29Adam Schafer:Next up, cardio. Yeah, I know we're talking about muscle building. Don't do it except for walking. So lots of cardio will interfere with this signal that we're trying to send, but we do want to stay healthy. And I think walking is great, especially after meals, right? Why walk after meals when we want to build muscle? If we improve insulin sensitivity, which is what happens when you walk after a meal, you will get more of those nutrients to your muscle. Here's what happens when you're moving your muscles, when you're flexing, contracting your muscles. There's something called the GLUT4 receptor that moves to the surface of the muscle cell and it attracts glycogen and sucks in amino acids.

22:07Adam Schafer:You want insulin sensitivity when you eat. The more sensitive you are to insulin, the more your muscle bellies are going to fill out with glycogen, the faster you're going to recover. In fact, bodybuilders, and I'm not recommending this, bodybuilders will take insulin with a post-workout meal. In fact, many people believe this is how bodybuilders got so big in the 90s is started to figure out how to use insulin. This is why they suddenly got 20, 30 pounds more muscle. So I'm not suggesting that at all. Don't give yourself diabetes. But after your meals, especially after a big meal, do a 10-minute walk, and that will help facilitate recovery and muscle growth.

22:43Adam Schafer:So this is for insulin sensitizing.

22:44Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I was going to shout out the bodybuilders on this because I think this is something that they've been practicing for a really long time. I don't know if we communicated it the best as far as what was happening from a scientific or physiological standpoint. But the other thing I would put in here that I would be categorized is this is where you put these little micro workouts or trigger sessions too. So, and that's, I mean, that's an old -

23:06Adam Schafer:Yeah, like bodyweight squats and pushups. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:08Sal Di Stefano:Some band curls right after a meal. So obviously I would default to bare minimum walk for the digestion and the point you make, or do some little band trigger sessions right after you eat too would be phenomenal.

23:21Adam Schafer:And then finally, do deep static stretching post-workout. So static stretching is where you hold a stretch for 30 to 60 seconds or longer. You breathe slowly. You relax. It's painful, and it's especially effective when you're stretching a muscle that is pumped. There's some evidence to suggest that this leads to more muscle growth, better ranges of motion later, and probably hypertrophy. So at the end of your workout, end it with 10 to 15 minutes of really deep, slow, static stretching of all the muscles you just worked. This will kind of tip you over the edge. And again, if you follow all these things consistently, like if you do these things daily and you're consistent for 60 days, It's a 60-day challenge.

24:08Adam Schafer:You're going to see some lean body mass gains. Many of you will see it close to about five pounds.

24:13Sal Di Stefano:Oh, especially if you apply all these. That's right.

24:14Adam Schafer:Because there's a - This all works together, by the way. If you just do one of these, you're not going to see what we're talking about.

24:19Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, yeah. I think there's a lot of people that there's probably at least a handful of these that you could probably implement, and that alone is probably going to show the difference. Yeah, yeah.

24:26Adam Schafer:All right. I got an interesting study to bring up for you guys. It's a little controversial, and I'll tell you why it's controversial, but check out this study. there was a global study of 128 000 people this was published in the british journal of sports

24:40Sal Di Stefano:medicine oh is this the one i sent you uh which one yeah i sent it to you this is the uh i just sent to you this morning did you yeah yeah okay well i found about uh mental health yes yeah yeah okay yeah huge study fascinating here's what they found i'm glad you brought it up exercise

24:57Adam Schafer:exercise was one and a half times more effective than meds or therapy for mild to moderate depression meds and therapy right yeah wild for depression yeah okay now i bet you uh it seems so

25:10Sal Di Stefano:painfully obvious forever for me i think people's people's did you see the clip i don't know if you guys saw this clip too i just saw uh our buddy chris uh williamson on um pierce morgan show and pierce asked him um you know mental health or physical health um first and chris said physical first and he says downstream comes the mental health that's right disagreed he says oh no i I think we have a bigger crisis with mental health, but Chris did a really good way, a good job of articulating why it's hard to think your way out of mental depression.

25:41Adam Schafer:Yep. In fact, one of the hallmarks of depression is thinking about yourself. Right.

25:45Sal Di Stefano:So that's, so it's like, it's just good to go deeper down the rabbit hole versus go take a walk. Just get out and go walk and move and then watch that, you know, change your state of mind and then, then build on top of that. It's actually far easier to do the physical thing than it is to mentally think yourself at a depression. So I agree.

26:03Adam Schafer:Look at modern society. Okay. We live in the most, we segment both of those. We live in the most therapized time in human history. More, there are more therapists, more counselors, more meds for depression and anxiety being prescribed today than ever before. And yet anxiety and depression are at all time highs since we started recording it. Now I believe it's multifactored. However, I don't think it's a coincidence that we're also the least healthy physically than we've ever been and you see this especially with younger people yeah so you know the whole like uh oh my god i'm depressed i'm gonna go to the gym and then people be like no you go you need counseling you need therapy i think it's a terrible uh it's a terrible way of looking at things like literally going to the gym one of the best things you could do if you're depressed work out it's one of the best best things you could do it's like why don't we look at our brain like our body's an extension of our brain.

26:57Yeah. Our brain is in our body. The whole thing is one thing. So, you know, it's just, it's silly to me to just compartmentalize it and be like, well, let's just work on our mental health. Yeah. There's a few things.

27:09Adam Schafer:Everything else. And there's a few ways to look at this. Like we know inflammation is indicated in depression, brain inflammation. We also know that doing hard things and overcoming and challenge yourself helps with depression. we also know that improved uh muscle function muscle health releases these uh these chemicals that make you feel better we know that obesity or lots of body fat actually releases chemicals that make you feel not so good like i mean there's so many reasons why this works and now we have a study that shows that because the previous study showed that exercise was as effective This one's showing it's one and a half times.

27:51Adam Schafer:I agree. You take medication, you're going to get some effects. Some people don't, but some people get effects. But then you can build tolerance. You get side effects. SSRIs have sexual side effects, for example, which can cause its own type of issues. You know what happens to your sexual health when you start to become more fit? It gets better. In fact, everything gets better. Every part of you gets better as you become more fit and healthy.

28:14Sal Di Stefano:We talked shit about Andrew Tate recently, but I have to give him his flowers on this because it was one of the way, this is actually the way I found him years ago. It was actually giving a young man with depression recommendation. And his, and if he, of course does it in a very brutal, blunt, you know, unapologetic way, but it basically told, told the kid, like, go get, go, go, go build some abs, go get fit. Like, don't worry. Don't try and think your way out of this, this mental depression, stuff like that. Go, go to the gym, go work out. and then call me after you have abs and tell me if you're still depressed.

28:47Adam Schafer:Now, I want to address that, right? The happiness that comes from fitness is not because you look better.

28:53Sal Di Stefano:No, no. It's not because... It's because he set a goal and he accomplished it. That's right. And you become healthier. But it's so simplified, right? It's just like, it's not over-complicating the process, but it isn't, oh, I look at myself in the mirror and I'm not depressed now because I'm jacked. It's because I set a goal. It was a small goal first, go to the gym or go walk, whatever it was, and then I accomplished it. And then I said, hey, I'm going to eat a little bit better. And then I accomplished it. And it's the stacking of those goals and those wins that is what results in the coming out of depression.

29:23Sal Di Stefano:It's not the physical. But it was one of the first ways I ever found any of his content. I like that advice for young men because we have a lot of young men that are suffering from depression and anxiety. And I think if they would, instead of trying to think their way out of it or think it's, oh, I lack purpose and I don't know what my purpose is. It's like, go work out, go start. And if you can't lift yet, that seems too much, go walk. Just do something. Yeah, go walk, go move, and then slowly build on that. And then look back in six months after you've set those goals, you've kept those promises to yourself.

29:57Sal Di Stefano:Because I think that has a lot to do with it, too, is keeping promises that you've made to yourself and what that does to you psychologically.

30:03Adam Schafer:What you end up confirming to yourself is that I can do something and I'm getting better. I remember training kids, high school kids. I remember one in particular, his parents hired me to train him because he was struggling in school and he was self-conscious about his body. And there was one particular story where he wore a T-shirt to the pool and then he got made fun of type of deal. So they hired me to train him. And I'll never forget, we worked out. And I could tell right away, like, oh, I'm going to be like an older brother to him. So this is how I'm going to approach this type of deal. And I remember we did one workout.

30:34Adam Schafer:We did some very basic exercises. One of the exercises was push-ups. I saw him, I don't remember, like four days later. And I tracked all this. and I remember the impact it had on him. He did push-ups again. He gets up and he's just, you know, still kind of whatever. And I said, hey, I said, do you know what you just did? He's like, no. I said, you did 10 push-ups. He's like, okay. I said, do you know what you did last time? He goes, no. I said, you did eight push-ups. He's like, I did. I said, yeah, do you know what that means? He goes, no. I said, you are fundamentally different. You couldn't do 10 push-ups last time.

31:01Adam Schafer:You could only do eight. You did two more. Your body is not the same as it was. I remember watching the look on his face like, I'm not the same. I'm different now it's extremely powerful so I hope this becomes you know part of our part of how we treat people for depression it's weird that we don't

31:20Sal Di Stefano:especially when we have studies like that that say how much more beneficial is it that wouldn't be part of every therapist's protocol and even at the level like I said I understand that why there's that barrier for like squatting and dead lifting because the average person may not be able to just go right to that the doctor's not gonna take the liability of saying go to the gym and go squat But it's like, why wouldn't it be like go for a daily walk or why would it not be some sort of physical activity?

31:45Adam Schafer:Yeah, I think part of it is, and I do think there's, I think therapy is valuable also. So I'm not saying it's not valuable, but I do think part of the desire with therapy is let me understand myself and understand why I feel this way or understand my trauma. Okay. So that's what they'll do. Yeah.

32:02Sal Di Stefano:But you've also addressed this and talked about it. Jordan Peterson talks about this. Like for women, that is far more useful than for the average male.

32:07Adam Schafer:Well, for men, you're right. There's definitely a difference between the genders. But my point with this is rather than trying to understand it and break it down and think about it, which I think there's value there too. What if you became a person who was stronger, more fit, and more confident? Now that previous challenge is you are not the same. Now this is something I feel like I can handle. I feel capable now. Rather than trying to focus so much on it and think about it so much. I agree with that statement you said earlier. you can't think your way uh out of depression i think you have to become someone that can that is no longer depressed yeah if that makes any sense so anyway and overall health here and overall health yeah it's not gonna hurt the process at all yes yes no uh i'm excited because we have a new partner with a supplement a compound that um you know i've known about for a long time but now we have a really really reliable partner so are you guys familiar with manuka honey and it's been no

33:04Sal Di Stefano:but I've been looking forward to this discussion because I was totally unaware of it. And I didn't realize that there was like really, I knew that there was a difference in like where you get the honey from where the bees are. Like for example, my neighbor is right next to me. And so for my allergies, it makes sense that I would get from him. It's one of the best places that's local and close to me, but I had no idea that there was levels to this honey game.

33:28Adam Schafer:Well, honey is fascinating. It's fascinating to begin with. So you guys know honey doesn't go bad, right? You can leave it out for - They found it, you know, like ancient Egypt. And you can eat it. Yeah, they found something you actually eat. It's been stored that long. Bacteria doesn't grow in honey. Manuka honey is the most antimicrobial, antibacterial. In fact, you could put it on wounds, and they do in some places. They'll put it on burns and wounds, and it'll heal the body. When you eat it, it has this beneficial effect on your microbiome, actually helping good bacteria and killing bad bacteria.

34:01Adam Schafer:And the Manuka honey, there's a compound in there called MGO. What does that stand for, Doug? Methylgloxyl. Okay. Methylgloxyl has these anti-inflammatory effects in the body, kind of these healing effects. And Manuka honey is exceptionally high in it. The company that we're working with, Manukora, has the highest I've ever seen measured. It's through the roof. It's like quadruple what you'll find in other Manuka honey. So are these different bees? I know this is from New Zealand, correct? And I mean, is this like, how's this different than like other honeys? It's what they pollinate and how they make it that makes it specifically.

34:42Adam Schafer:So it comes from New Zealand. So it's a very specific type of honey.

34:46Sal Di Stefano:It has like a different texture to it too. It does. It's really good. Yeah, it is.

34:50Adam Schafer:I like it for, so that little packet you ate, I believe it's like six grams of sugar, if I'm not mistaken. Look at the, can you read that? Old man Adam. No, bro. I look like Justin right now. Spectacles here. but it's like,

35:01Sal Di Stefano:look at how tiny it is. It's like super tiny. I know. That's changing the last couple of years. Do you have your glasses, dude? No, bro. That's not, I'm not that, I'm actually not that bad. Here we go. This is like in real size. So 21 calories. I'm blind, dude. And total sugar is six grams. Yeah. You hit it right. Yep.

35:15Adam Schafer:So, um, oral use can help with gum inflammation. Uh, so it can help with the mat with mouth microbiome. regular consumption can reduce rates of illness. It seems to be antiviral. Um,

35:29Sal Di Stefano:So go back to, I'm sorry, I don't know if I missed it when you were saying it because I was trying to take this. So explain the, like, because I know that, does all honey have MGO? And does, and like what, like this is 850 plus MGO, it says.

35:41Adam Schafer:Yes. You're not going to find Manuka. First of all, if honey.

35:45Sal Di Stefano:Because I heard Doug say Costco even carries this. Yeah, but typically the numbers are down around 60 or 80 MGO. So 60 to 80 MGO. This is 850.

35:55Adam Schafer:I've never seen one this high. Like 250 plus is high. The fact that they've got it this high.

36:01Sal Di Stefano:And this is what's the most beneficial part of this.

36:03Adam Schafer:That's the anti-cancer, anti-microbial, anti-inflammatory. Like that's the stuff in honey there. Makes it more medicinal at that point. Very medicinal. So because it's so 21, what is it? How many grams of sugar is one packet? Six. Yeah, post-workout. You'll have one or two of those. You have a little extra sugar with your protein. And then you'll get the anti-inflammatory effects from it. It's perfect. It's great. Super interesting. So when we got them, when they sent me those samples, I looked at it, looked it up, and I saw their MGO rating. I was like, holy cow. Like I said, 250 is hard to find.

36:32Adam Schafer:250 is really good.

36:33Sal Di Stefano:It's 850. So you're talking about some of the highest you've ever seen. It's four times that. That's wild.

36:39Adam Schafer:So I'll have it now post-workout. I'll have a couple of those with a protein shake or something like that.

36:45Sal Di Stefano:Now, are they concentrating that anymore to get it to that level, or does it come naturally? No, it comes from where they get it. Wow. Yeah. Interesting.

36:53Adam Schafer:It makes it exclusive. Again, you'd have to eat five or six times as much as other ones.

36:57Sal Di Stefano:Right. And then you're taking in like 400 calories or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Super cool. Yeah. Pretty cool, right? That is cool. It's very cool.

37:04Adam Schafer:Did you guys see the study that Dr. Lyon sent to us? I sent that one already too.

37:08Sal Di Stefano:I was curious to hear your breakdown. Now, this is just more of what she's already been researching and touting for a while now, right? She's the first one to really break the news to us that there is a difference in muscle quality, right? It's not just about muscle. It's muscle quality. And this is a deeper dive on that. It is.

37:24Adam Schafer:So she did this with a bunch of other researchers. Dr. Gabrielle Lyons, amazing. She's like at the forefront of - I love her. Like how muscle is this organ that is so closely connected to longevity, which now is not even, nobody debates this. Like we know this, right? Here's the title of the study. This was just published on the 20th of July. The title says, Exploring the Link Between Muscle Quality and Erectile Dysfunction. assessing the impact of mass and strength. And so what they find is that skeletal muscle math and strength contribute independently to healthy sexual function through metabolic and endothelial mechanisms.

38:06Adam Schafer:Endothelial meaning your blood vessels, the health of your blood vessels. So, you know, strength train and you get better boners, basically. And weak muscles probably not so good.

38:17Sal Di Stefano:I wonder how is it like an immediate? it because it feels like so remember when remember when i went through that process god it's been like six years now i don't know how long ago when i came off of testosterone i tried to go back and and you had me on all the things yeah all the natural supplements to try and to boost it and i told you that of everything that i had done nothing felt at least from a libido standpoint more than just a good day of lifting heavy like i remember that if i had two or three days i hadn't lifted yet, like just feeling this, just totally down. Sex drive was down, motivation, energy was down and the greatest spike.

38:55Sal Di Stefano:And by the way, it wasn't crazy because I was at the floor. It felt like, but compared to that, it felt like a lot. Um, you know, I would do a squat session and it wasn't even crazy intensity. It was just lifting heavy weights. And then the next, like literally the next day to four, eight hours, I felt that increase. I always thought that with myself and clients is that phase one type, like the low reps as well, and just focusing on that grinding strength. It made a difference with appetite and libido. Remember, Sal used to sell MAPS anabolic that way. That's right.

39:28Adam Schafer:A lot of people say that, phase one. There's a lot of feedback constantly like that. We constantly get that. So there's an acute effect that happens, and I think it's just the feel-good chemicals that come from exercise. but then there's a long-term effect where you have your blood vessels dilate better blood flow is better your metabolic health is better you know metabolic poor metabolic health is very closely correlated with uh erectile dysfunction like obesity weakness they can show in studies grip strength and associate it to uh sexual health so that's what they're showing so long term it's i mean it's great and and and look if you build more muscle you have more opportunities have sex too so it's a nice weak weak boners don't have weak they go together i like that i like that

40:15Sal Di Stefano:i so okay i i want to bring up i uh i know we don't know a lot about it but i i'm just curious because i'm interested in this i saw goob do a video and he's bringing up this uh supplement called 7OH that is exploding right now. Dangerous. And I had no idea about it. He basically kind of like, you know, went undercover at like one of these like, and they sell them, they're selling them at these like marijuana conventions where there's THC, cannabis and all that stuff like that and Kratom. And it's like, I mean, it looked like 80 % of the boosts now are related to the 7OH. I'm like, dude, I have never even heard of this.

40:55Yeah, I've never heard of it.

40:56Sal Di Stefano:And it's like, if I understand it correctly, it's like an extract from kratom. So it's like, if you know what kratom feels like, because it pairs with the opiate receptor. So it's like, if I were to compare kratom to like say a pharmaceutical, I would say, you know, it is a very, very mild version of like a Vicodin or a Percocet, mild version. But if you take enough of them, you get a similar type of effect, but it's quite a bit of this, you know, natural leaf you have to take to get a similar effect on the opiate receptors. Now, this 7-OH is significantly stronger.

41:29Adam Schafer:They said it's stronger than fentanyl. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, they found a loophole in the law off what you said. This is over the counter? For now. Yeah. It'll get banned.

41:38Sal Di Stefano:But yeah, RFK, supposedly this video that Goob did got so much traction, shares, DMs of people saying like, yes, I know a lot of people that are wildly addicted to it. They tagged RFK like crazy. And literally within 24 hours, he was making a news announcement

41:52Adam Schafer:announcement about trying to go out they found a loophole because they found a natural compound in in a natural plant and then they concentrated the hell out of it and turned it into a pharmaceutical and because the laws don't say this is illegal they can get away with selling it right uh and so now people can buy this apparently it's chemical that's stronger than fentanyl which is crazy because fentanyl is causing so many people od yeah like what are we doing yeah it's

42:21Sal Di Stefano:wild how quickly it turned in i mean you've i mean i must have seen 20 or more of these booths that he was going around to and they all were just different versions of it and they were all it

42:33Adam Schafer:was funny what they were saying too in the cover they were like yeah i mean you don't want to tell people you're selling it but you have it and if they ask for it you know make sure that they're not a you know like a police officer yeah i'm like oh god well i remember they're gonna get

42:46Sal Di Stefano:all supplements banned i mean we had we had multiple opportunities to uh work with a kratom company and we we weren't okay with advertising it even though it's a a natural leaf even though i've openly talked about taking it and stuff it's not something that i would ever want to promote to people because of its addictive properties and so and it doesn't even come close to pharmaceutical yeah it's at all and so that that's just it is there's uh but now they're they're going this is

43:12Adam Schafer:this is scary yeah what they're doing yeah it's crazy what they do it's like um it's like what

43:16Sal Di Stefano:they've done with cannabis uh yeah making a super strong thc uh you know you can buy a thousand

43:22Adam Schafer:milligram edibles or whatever yeah you buy a thousand milligram edibles you'd never be able to get a thousand yeah why because people turn because there's a very very very small percentage

43:33Sal Di Stefano:of people that it makes sense to somebody who is like can't move and it's like doing that instead of taking morphine or taking oxycontin i doubt it i think it's people who hammer themselves listen listen i when i worked in the clubs yeah uh there i saw that it was you're talking about one percent was it epilepsy like yes yeah stuff like that like really bad cases but back when

43:56Adam Schafer:you were doing this was what was it 10 11 12 years ago 13 years ago more than that yeah 13 years ago okay i don't think you guys had back then a thousand milligram oh yeah oh yeah a thousand

44:05Sal Di Stefano:Even back then? Yeah, no. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. I mean, this was part of the problem I had with it was people were making some of this stuff, homemade versions of edibles like that. They're trying to see if you can diet. Yeah, what they call it the death star. And really what I saw, and this is why I didn't sleep well and I wasn't excited about this career path, was that 90 % of the people buying it were not people that I thought, like it made sense to take 1 ,000 milligrams of that. it was people trying to get fucked up you know and that's like and when and you try and you know go make yourself feel good it's like oh but there are that that one client that came in that crazy chronic pain and they're trying to avoid taking oxycontins and some of these pharmaceuticals and it's like okay that makes sense to me but that's not they'll ban it it'll be banned soon

44:54Adam Schafer:because there's no way if it's that strong there's no way you know in the 90s uh ghb was you could buy at a supplement store oh i didn't know that oh yeah in the 90s like the real stuff ghb Now, I didn't know about it because I don't know how I didn't know about it. I knew all about supplements, and thank God. But GHB, if you look at its history, bodybuilders would take GHB for better sleep. Yep. Okay? GHB is a – I mean, that's a – I think people use it for date rape drug.

45:21Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. For some – That's what it's – on the street, it's known for that for the average consumer. But bodybuilders – And they had to ban it because people were buying it at the supplement. Bodybuilders would use it to take these little micro naps throughout the day. I don't know if I've told you the story. I think you and I have probably talked about it off air. But when I first got introduced to it or knew what it was, I was 22. And I had this jack bodybuilder counselor that was working with us. And he used to take it. And it was so powerful and strong. Not kidding. He would be at his desk making phone calls and then just fall asleep.

45:54Sal Di Stefano:I know who you're talking about. Just. I know who you're talking about. He'd be snoring, sitting there with the phone like this. and just two minutes ago, I heard him talking and then just like out like that. That's how powerful he is. I know who that is. You know how I know who that is?

46:08Adam Schafer:He worked for me and I had to fire him. Oh, wow. Because that's what was happening. I'm like, why is he? I had no idea. What's going on? Is he on drugs?

46:15Sal Di Stefano:I didn't know what it was either and then I found out what it was and I was like, what? And then I found out it was like used as a date rate drug but the bodybuilders were using it to get this, because I forget what it does to your sleep cycle but it jumps you like right into REM. Something like that. It hijacks you right to REM, and then you're getting this deep recovery sleep within minutes or something, if I'm describing it correctly.

46:38Adam Schafer:The supplement industry is hilarious. In the 90s and early 2000s, you could also buy steroids over the counter because they would take chemicals that were - Yeah, just change one molecule. Well, no, not even that. What they did, it's actually brilliant on their part from a money perspective, but obviously the integrity wasn't there. They were going through discarded anabolic steroid chemicals from pharmaceutical companies. So pharmaceutical companies were studying to come up with the next anabolic steroid in the 70s, right, 80s. And then they discard it. No, this is not as good as this or for whatever reason.

47:10Adam Schafer:Maybe it causes too much liver damage, too many side effects, whatever. And so supplement companies went through these files and they're like, oh, look at this. And it's not explicitly banned. We could sell this. So you could buy Superdrawal was one of them. super draw today okay by the way power lifters buy super draw in the black market because they like it better than some of the stronger old school steroids yeah one methyl test was another one and of course i'm an impressionable kid yeah and they called them quote unquote pro hormones pro hormone meaning it you know they were like a safer version and i would go to whatever that supplement store was what's called max muscle oh you're throwing one of those oh whatever dude and i'd buy them and i remember i was as a kid i mean it worked obviously it's like oh my god i'm getting big what's going on well for i was taking steroids for at least for at least a decade and a

47:58Sal Di Stefano:half maybe two decades that was the game that was the cat and mouse game yep was and it was literally uh and i remember talking to guys that own these supplement shops that they they were very aware and this is what the cycle looked like was like we put this thing out we know it's basically steroids we're going to call it pro hormones we know eventually it will get banned it's going to get so popular we sell millions of dollars in it it'll eventually get the the uh they will get they'll wake up everybody then they'll go oh my god they'll ban it then what they'll do is the next one they'll put it under the counter oh they put it under the counter you gotta ask for it and so you gotta ask ask for it until they sell out that stock meanwhile the new one the next one was coming that was again off that list and that was just this game they all played and it was always it was like a slap on the wrist because it wasn't illegal yet and so they had to pass laws to make them explicitly illegal and so you had it you had a window that you and then of course the way something like that that's i mean when you're young dumb kids like i was and probably you in your 20s like probably you the ones that you heard were the strongest or the band ones are the ones that you wanted like and so it became a thing where you just walk in some of the stories you're like hey what do you what do you got on the counter right now like what's the what's the latest thing and it's like oh i've got four of these left you know so some of them are crazy

49:14Adam Schafer:because as an adult...

49:16Sal Di Stefano:I had worse side effects than I ever did from any anabolic steroid. That's all the rejected ones. Yes, bro. I had more side effects from that than I ever did. Bro, that's why they discarded them. Yeah.

49:26Adam Schafer:That's why they... I remember, because I remember I would stack... This is the stack. So not only are you taking one that's not great for your liver, but they're like, here, take it with these other two and you feel great for six weeks and then you feel like, oh, why do I feel like garbage? Yeah. Eh, probably causing some damage. What was the one that recently came about and we found out a lot of CrossFitters were using it, and other people in the industry were promoting it for a while. Then I haven't heard much about it in a long time. Oh, I don't know. God, what's the name of it?

49:52Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, which one was that? Was it in the CrossFit community, huh? Yeah, but it wasn't a steroid. It was a, god damn, what's the name of it? Yeah. Recovery related? Do you know what it was related? It wasn't hormone? It was something else? It wasn't a hormone. It wasn't a peptide. It was gray market for sure. Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, did you know? Don't come to me.

50:14Adam Schafer:Okay. So you guys know these myostatin inhibiting drugs that they're studying, right? There's that one crazy study where they took monkeys.

50:21Sal Di Stefano:By the way, we have seed tomorrow, right?

50:23Adam Schafer:Dr. Seeds? Yes. He'll come in. I'm going to ask him about it. Yeah. I can't wait to talk about this. So they had this one study I talked about in a previous episode where they took monkeys and they took a bunch of groups of monkeys. One of the groups of monkeys, they put them on a GLP-1 plus a myostatin and an active inhibitor.

50:36Sal Di Stefano:This was such a fascinating study.

50:37Adam Schafer:And they put them on a calorie-restricted diet, and the monkeys lost body fat and gained a ridiculous amount of muscle. Monkeys aren't lifting weights. They're just building muscle. So our trainer, Cole, which I love, Cole is very much like I was at his age, just not nearly as stupid. Which, thank God. And maybe it's because he's got guys like us who can help talk him down. But he sends me a picture. He's like, hey, you could buy a myostatin inhibitor as a research chemical right now. I'm like, what? You know how much it costs? How much? $30 ,000 a month

51:09Sal Di Stefano:shut your face

51:10Adam Schafer:but you can actually buy it right now he's all 30 grand a month we started laughing about it

51:14Sal Di Stefano:but I'm like this is crazy that's the study that Isrutil brought up right that is the study that's the one we're going to talk to Seed about I'm really excited to talk about that because I do want to be in front of this yes because he said to us

51:27Adam Schafer:spoiler alert but he'll break it down he's like that's not the same it's not healthy muscle it's like you're heavier so you basically have more but unhealthy muscle which is probably more like just weight on your body. Yeah. Which I'm like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I know. Really. SARMs. Oh, SARMs. Oh, yeah.

51:46Sal Di Stefano:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's so annoying. I couldn't remember that. Yeah. Well, you were talking about a category. That's like a whole category. Yeah, yeah. It's a whole category. Yeah, yeah. There's a whole bunch of stuff. You know, it does seem like that's kind of, and maybe that's because of the rise with all the great peptides that are out now. They've kind of fallen out of favor. Yeah, I haven't heard about them at all. They were really, really popular.

52:05Adam Schafer:Do you know one of the side effects? Because I remember when SARMs first came out, and this, again, I was in my 20s, so, you know, of course, you know, I was looking them up and reading about them. Do you know one of the side effects of one of the more stronger, quote-unquote, SARMs was back then? Grow a limb or a tail? No. It affected your vision. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I did hear that. Where people were like, oh, I can't see as well. Yeah. That's a terrible side effect. That's terrible. Highlights. Blind spots. Highlights. Jack, I don't know. You're messing your vision?

52:35Sal Di Stefano:Young teenage boy is like, so? I'll get glasses.

52:38Adam Schafer:No, no. Gave two inches on my arm, dude. No, the vision symptoms were like, everything starts to look like it's a yellow tint. Oh, my God. And then I can't see at night. Night vision goes away. I'm like, that's not good, bro. Yeah, I don't know. I don't care how jacked it makes you. I know. I know. So funny. What are you going to do? Anyway. Hey, I got to tell you, I've eaten recently. I love doing this because I can always feel the contrast. Recently, I've been eating, because we had people over, so we bought a bunch of just big grocery store tri-tips. Not grass-fed, not grass-fed, right? And I've been eating a lot.

53:10Adam Schafer:I can really tell the difference when I go -

53:12Sal Di Stefano:Between ButcherBox and them?

53:13Adam Schafer:I can. Not just the taste. You know, I like, of course, the fattier one. It's all tasty and stuff like that, the conventional one. But it just, I feel more inflamed. I feel more inflamed. It doesn't feel as, and it's the fatty acid profile. It has to be.

53:26Sal Di Stefano:You know, I've been trimming out since the last ButcherBox commercial we did because you brought up the whole chicken thigh thing. I had no idea. They're leaner and more protein. Yeah, we had the ButcherBox chicken thighs last night. Katrina made this really good. I know people are going to ask me. I saw you guys eating it. Yeah, she did this Greek, not dessert, Greek sauce. It's basically like Greek yogurt. Is it tzatziki? I don't know what the name was for it. But you drizzled it over the chicken thighs and rice and then tomatoes and cilantro. It was, dude, bomb. Yeah, super good. And I mean, all that it really was is Greek yogurt with some sort of seasoning in it and to drizzle over the chicken.

54:05Sal Di Stefano:So bumps the protein even more, gives it a little like sauce and flavor to it. And then you have the chicken thighs from there. But now I'm paying attention. I just assume that the chicken thighs were the same.

54:14Adam Schafer:No, if you go with the butcher box chicken thighs and the grass-fed meat, same size, same ounces, higher protein, less calories because the fatty acid profile is different. Yeah, what a great selling point.

54:24Sal Di Stefano:I had no idea about that.

54:25Adam Schafer:Lower your calories. Eat the same amount of food. Yeah, protein. Why not? All right, so we are here at Mind Pump looking for interns for editing the show. So if you're interested in helping to edit our YouTube podcast, our clips on social media, if you have some experience, contact us at info at mindpumpmedia.com. We're looking for what, two, and we're looking for two interns?

54:47Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, but I also want to add though that you don't necessarily, it's very similar to when we made the call for trainers. I mean, we're looking for character more than we're looking for experience. You can be trained for sure. In fact, I mean, most of our editing team was trained in-house here. So it's more the willingness to learn and want to grow. And you understand our message. Yeah, the message and the purpose of the business. That is far more important than years of editing experience. And so if you're, but you have to be willing to want to do that. And it does take a special person that like is down to sit in front of a computer and edit and cut stuff up.

55:23Sal Di Stefano:So that's important. But you're in here.

55:25Adam Schafer:You're in Mind Pump Studio, so we'll see you on a regular basis. Yeah. So you've got to be here in San Jose to do this.

55:30Sal Di Stefano:On top of that, since you're bringing up stuff kind of like news for us, we are now, we've just released the third episode on Elite Trainer Academy on YouTube. So it's on every other, it's on Spotify.

55:41Adam Schafer:This is our podcast hosted by Kyle, who's our head trainer, and it's just for trainers.

55:46Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, specific to trainers, it's all things related to - Elite Trainer content. Yeah, being a better trainer, everything from exercise stuff to programming to business, and we started off with Kyle interviewing the three of us, but the goal is to reach out to other professionals that is really for trainers, for trainers to get better. And so if you guys are not subscribed and following that already, if you guys go over to the YouTube channel or the Spotify or podcast, anywhere you can find a podcast. And the best thing you guys can do to help support that is just if you like it and find it valuable, subscribe and share.

56:21Adam Schafer:Seed is the world's best probiotic. Probiotics are great for digestion, inflammation. And now we have all these studies showing they improve athletic performance, muscle building. They may actually help with fat loss. This is what the studies are showing. You want to use a probiotic, go with Seed. Go to seed.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code 25mindpump. Get 25 % off your first month's order of their daily symbiotic. Back to the show. First question is from Jack Mack. I am a CrossFitter who is about to become a new dad. Dad, how do I balance getting the most out of my workouts without overwhelming my soon-to-be overly stressed body?

56:58Adam Schafer:Stop CrossFit. Yeah, don't do CrossFit. That's probably not the CrossFit workout when you're going to lose sleep. That's the first time. Yeah. You got to really balance out stress and exercises of stress on the body. The best program that I think by far is MAPS 15 for someone like this. Two exercises a day. Two exercises a day. You don't need to make a lot of time for it. And it won't overwhelm your body. One of the worst things you could do, and this happens to dads, by the way. This happens to a lot of men. You're about to become a dad, and I get it. I have four kids myself. Every guy I know that has kids that really cares about their kids or cares about being a good dad.

57:35Adam Schafer:You get this sudden drive to become the best at everything. It's like, okay, that's it. Accomplish everything. I'm having kids. I'm going to work twice as hard at work. I need to earn more money. I'm going to get super fit. I want to be the jacked dad. I want to do it. And it's just too much. It's too much all at once. It takes away from your family. You burn yourself out. You get hurt, whatever. Not a good idea. With exercise, think in this case, like this is a season. What can I do to kind of maintain my health? And it's very little. Yeah.

58:06Sal Di Stefano:It starts with not identifying yourself as a CrossFitter. That's a modality of training that is fun and at certain times of your life could be a blast to work towards, but you should not identify yourself as a CrossFitter. You're somebody who likes to do CrossFit and it made sense where you were at maybe six months or a year ago in your life and fun and the community is awesome and all the things that's great about it. Now you have different priorities in your life. Therefore, you change the modality of training. And so you do something that's more appropriate and beneficial to you than trying to squeeze in your CrossFit-like workouts.

58:46Sal Di Stefano:And you'll learn this lesson one way or the other. So you'll either learn it and take heed to what we're saying and then change your programming to something that's more, I mean, like MAPS 15 is what I love. The protocol we created specifically for this type of environment and situation, you have to adjust and tailor your training to meet the demands and stress levels that you're going to face. And then maybe you get back to your CrossFit workouts down the road some other time when he gets in school or she gets in school and you've got more free time and you've got better sleep, but not the appropriate type of training at that place in your life.

59:24Sal Di Stefano:And so hopefully you listen to it. If not, what happens to people like this is they do it anyways, and then they end up getting hurt because one of the number one ways to increase risk of injury is poor sleep. And so So that's one of the most common things when having a baby. Next question is from Peter Peter Unofficial. What's a good amount of water to drink a day?

59:44Adam Schafer:This is interesting because there's sometimes a bit of controversy around this. There is essential water intake and then there's optimal water intake. So essential water intake is pretty easy to hit. Drink when you're thirsty and you're probably going to be okay. You're probably not going to have any issues with drinking too little water. Optimal is more than that. In my experience with people who are active and strength trained, high protein diet, it's typically around a half a gallon to a gallon every single day. In my experience, especially with people who strength train intensely and regularly, when they can work up to a gallon and then stay consistent with a gallon, we tend to see exceptional results.

1:00:24Adam Schafer:We see more muscle fullness, better recovery, less cravings, better skin, less pain. Less pain, that's a big one. So this is what I tend to recommend to people. But if you're way below this, going from really low to a gallon is going to overwhelm you. So work your way up. But again, half a gallon to a gallon is what I found for most people. I try to keep that pee clear.

1:00:49Sal Di Stefano:That's actually a really good generic way to do it is that if you have bright colored pee, I mean, obviously, right after you take supplements, that happens. But I mean, you still, even after that, you should keep drinking until you get to a place where it's clear. I used to love doing that as a generic recommendation. But I'm with you, Sal. I've found that my clients, again, a big fan of if you've never tracked a track because what I think is most common is people think they drink a lot of water the first time I have them track and they're nowhere near even a half a gallon. And so getting my clients to about a half a gallon to a gallon, depending on how big you are, seems to be really good for most people.

1:01:25Sal Di Stefano:that's obviously a generic answer but i'd start with actually tracking and seeing how low you already are because i think that's more common as people oh yeah i drink a lot of water because they can think of that one or two glasses they had in the day and so they just assume they have a lot of a lot of water and they don't so there are more optimal levels and it seems to fall somewhere

1:01:43Adam Schafer:between that half gallon a gallon yeah and you know adding electrolytes to your water when you drink that much water makes sense. If you sweat and work out and you're not having enough sodium and then you start drinking a gallon, you can actually cause issues like muscle cramps. So I do recommend people add like a packet of elements, about a thousand milligrams of sodium with all of that. And that should be enough in combination with your food to prevent that from happening next question is from my little workout diary how can i deal with delayed onset muscle soreness i've quit lifting several times because i just got tired of being sore all the time case in point i did the very first session of maps 15 last monday which has bulgarian split squats could barely walk for two days and i'm still dreading going down the stairs six days later it was too much too much weight yeah probably could have done your body weight yep But listen, here's the thing, okay?

1:02:42Adam Schafer:I don't care what your workout is. I don't care how little it is or how little you think it is. If you get this sore, it's too much. Now, there could be a few things contributing to this. One, deconditioned. So I could take somebody who does no strength training. And if we did one intense, semi-intense, not to failure, but like normal intense set of Bulgarian split-stand squats, they'll be sore for four days, okay? So that, so number one, are you deconditioned? Number two, are you feeding yourself appropriately? Are you eating enough proteins and fats, both essential or your calories, where they should be?

1:03:18Adam Schafer:That makes a big difference. Are you hydrating? Are you getting good sleep? But at the end of the day, even MAPS 15, which has low volume, here's what you do with MAPS 15. Cut your intensity in half. So when you're doing the exercises, rather than doing them until they're hard, just do them and then go to the next exercise, just like you're practicing them. If you get a little bit of soreness, that's okay. if you get no soreness, that's great. That's how you should feel after the workout. Yeah, even in split stance, sometimes you got to regress to, you know, regular squat and you got to do like a bodyweight squat as opposed to maybe your body's just not ready to handle that, you know, that type of stability demand.

1:03:56So it's just scaling it appropriately. So even when the exercises are demanding this, like got to know how to kind of taper it down so it's not so intense for you.

1:04:06Sal Di Stefano:Anytime that I have a break from lifting consistently, which I frequently do this, where I take a month off or whatever, every time I come back, I get better and better at… Gauging it, right? Gauging the right intensity. And it blows my mind how little effort I have to put into the workout when I haven't been doing it for just a month. So if this is somebody who can relate to that where it's been a month or a lot longer, boy, you do not have to put hardly any weight on the bar. Just going through the movements. You just go through the motions. Yeah, going through the movements many times with an unloaded bar or just your body weight is plenty of intensity to send that signal and to send the signal to build muscle, to adapt.

1:04:51Sal Di Stefano:And again, this is where I always go back to do as little as possible to elicit the most amount of change. is like there's no reason for you to be that sore. You're not getting any more benefit. You're getting less. Yeah, exactly. And so that, but also don't beat yourself up. I've been doing this for a very long time and I've been over applying intensity every time I come back for a very long time. It's taken a long time for me to hone in like, wow, I barely got to do anything.

1:05:15Adam Schafer:It just happened to you the other day. You know, Adam's a guy who has squatted 400 pounds, asked the grass and he took a long break. I think it was like a month maybe. And you did squats with 135. 25, which even in a deconditioned state was light for you. It wasn't like you were working out. You were just doing the motions. He comes back to work the next day. He's like, man, I am so sore just from doing that. And I had to learn this lesson so many times over before I figured it out with clients. I'd get a new client who didn't work out, and I think I'm taking them through a light workout. And then I'd talk to them the next day.

1:05:47Adam Schafer:They're like, oh my God, I can't get up off the couch or the toilet. And I remember thinking like, but we barely did anything. What's going on here? and I scaled it so far back. I really started to get good at this to the point where this is what it looked like with a beginner with me. We would do a workout and this is what they would always say at the end of it. That's it? Yeah. That's all I'm doing? I say, yep, that's it. Yeah. That's it. Let's just start there. And you progress. You progress little by little. Something to build off of. That's right. So when you do this, if you follow this and you do it right, here's how you should feel.

1:06:14Adam Schafer:You should feel good. You should feel like that wasn't enough. The next day, maybe a little bit of soreness. That's how you know. And it's about the intensity. So Mass 15 is a good amount of volume. Make it super easy. Go through the motions. Do that for the first few weeks before you start to ramp up the intensity, and you'll progress the entire time. Yep. Next question is from Pharmacy and Pumps. What would an everyday full-body weightlifting routine look like? Oh, interesting.

1:06:40Sal Di Stefano:You picked this one? Yeah, I picked it because I thought it would be a fun discussion for - How would you program it? Yeah, yeah, like how would we program this out? The biggest thing to take into consideration, Obviously, this is similar to the squat every day type of challenge that people do. And we've talked about that before. Like, oh, what do we think? Well, I think that people see huge results from it. But the challenge to this question and that question is learning how to modify intensity. It's a great follow-up to the question that we just answered because this is an example of how this could go wrong really fast is over-applying.

1:07:15Sal Di Stefano:I think there's a tremendous value in practicing these full body movements every single day, but you really only need one, maybe two of those days at most that you would consider moderately hard. The rest of it's more like just going through the motions and practice. And so that's the most important thing to consider here. And I think if you actually did this, you'd see great benefits. The problem is most people, just like the last person that we just answered, don't know how to really under apply the intensity. They'll overdo it. And then they're just constantly sore. You're not going to read the benefits from it.

1:07:49Adam Schafer:I can faster over train someone with intensity than I can with volume. With the right intensity, I could do a lot of volume. I could have people do all kinds of volume. Here's what it would look like an everyday weightlifting routine. One or two of them is a workout. One or two of them you're training. five of them or six of them you're just practicing the movements that's it and you should feel like you're just practicing the movements i mean a generic way to look at it sounds like you could

1:08:16Sal Di Stefano:literally take uh maps anabolic and instead of three sets of everything i'll probably do two sets of everything and then i'll have three to four of those days very very moderately low intensity and then one or two of those days that's right i kind of get after it a little bit but then just go through like you could do that you could take maps anabolic and just take no days off and just keep cycling through like that, but most of them are easy, but most of the workouts are really, really moderate results. You would, I think you, if you could apply that correctly, if you could just like the advice we just gave the last person, if you could approach the workout as just go through the movements, you want to feel them, but maybe a little bit of soreness next day, but you don't want to feel really, really sore.

1:08:55Sal Di Stefano:If you're really, really sore, that means you're overpaying intensity. That means you're going to go backwards with that much volume, that much training that frequently that high of intensity so yeah it could be done as simple as that it's following a maps and a pollock with no days off you just have to really modify i had a trainer

1:09:10Adam Schafer:that i've told this story before but i had a trainer that worked for me uh and he was exceptionally strong in the bench press i don't remember what he did it was like four i think it was one of the first times i saw someone bench four plates and i used to watch i general manager of the club i'm there all day long right so i'm always there i see what everybody's doing and i would see this guy in between clients, he'd go out to the bench, he'd put some weight on the bar. And it, to me, it looked like he was messing around. And I thought like, Oh, he's just, he's bored. And he's out there just messing around with the weights.

1:09:39Adam Schafer:That's what it looked like. So then I asked him, I'm like, dude, I've seen you push like four plays. Like, what's your workout look like? He's like, Oh, that's, that's what my workout is. In between clients, I go out and I just kind of mess around. I'm like, but you're barely pushing yourself. He's dude. He's like, Ever since I've done that, my strength has gone through the roof. And it was just throughout the day, he'd go out and literally practice exercises. It was insane. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. You can find us at Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

1:10:09If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

1:10:48The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump. Hey, Chicagoland. The Wayfair store is in your neighborhood at Edens Plaza and Wilmette. Finally, you can feel the fabric, sit on the sectionals, and even open the refrigerators. Plus, our in-store designers will help you bring it all together with free one-on-one design support for any project on any budget.

1:11:31Yep, we said free. Oh, and did we mention the cafe? So what are you waiting for? Come see all that's in store. Visit the Wayfair store today at Edens Plaza and Wilmette.

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