2664: Why Gaining Body Fat May be the Key to Getting the Results You Want & More (Listener Live Coaching)

19:52Adam Schafer:Yep. And then you have injury risk. It goes up quite a bit. I actually brought up some studies on this. Extreme leanness. In a 2015 study in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition found that athletes with really lean body fat percentage, so these were athletes walking around at 6 % body fat, had a 10 % to 15 % decrease in maximal strength and anaerobic power. And a 2018 study in sports medicine noted that athletes in weight class sports with body fat below 7%, ready for this, they had a 30 % higher incidence of injuries. Wow, 30 % is a lot. Yeah, and these were people in weight class sports.

20:33Adam Schafer:So let's say you're a wrestler. You're like, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna make it in the lower weight class and get shredded. I'm gonna get shredded so I can be the most muscular guy. You're better off being in the higher body fat, higher weight class from an injury risk and performance perspective. And I did this with the wrestlers that I trained. I would often encourage them like, no, no, don't cut so much. You'll actually perform worse in that weight class even though you think you're going to be the biggest guy in that low weight class. Yeah, it's a huge difference. Energy-wise and just like being in your body, yeah, it's totally different.

21:07Adam Schafer:And then last is happiness and life quality decreases. It's funny. This is the big one right here. Yeah. Well, there's a few reasons why. One is you become obsessed. So you take away from your life to try to accomplish this look. Then the other one is just your increased risk of depression and anxiety. It actually goes up in some studies 15 % to 20%.

21:27Sal Di Stefano:Well, I imagine it's probably because of all the sacrifice you're making, right? Yeah.

21:30Adam Schafer:Depletion of nutrients and all that stuff. So it's like you're chasing this thing to become happier when in reality it's making you less happy, which is - You gotta sacrifice a lot too, socially. it's obsessive you know if you're walking around your guy trying to walk around at seven percent body fat you're taking food with you everywhere and you're counting things oh it's the most

21:52Sal Di Stefano:selfish sport or thing i've ever done and and the reason why it is you know this is the part where i know i know this always gets people up in arms calling it calling them athletes right oh they're not athletes the athletic community hates that justin doesn't like it i know but it's the the thing about it is when you think about like even professional true athletes name a sport you are not thinking about your sport as much as you are in bodybuilding i don't care i've hung around a lot of pro athletes all day yeah you don't have practice yeah i've i've hung around a lot of pro athletes that still go out and have drinks and have a good time and cut loose and aren't talking about football but like your bodybuilding you are talking about literally food or your workout all day every day even wrestlers or or mma fighters or whoever has to cut that's a temporary window right like bodybuilders it's the entire process yeah it could and every meal impacts your sport and so you are thinking about and everything is connected nobody's as obsessive as bodybuilding it's the most obsessive yeah and and to me that was the part that i always said that you you need an athletic mind or a competitive mindset and that part of it was very, very competitive and very, very difficult to do for most people, which is why most people can't do it or fail at it because it's no breaks.

23:12Adam Schafer:Well, what's good is so the thing about this is that some people listening to this right now who've been consistent with like they're super consistent with things and they're plateaued. What they might just need to do is go into bulk and try and gain and allow themselves, allow themselves to gain a little body fat. That is exactly what might break you through your plateau. That's exactly why you may be plateaued. Right. Because you're keeping yourself so lean all the time that you're not giving your body what it needs to get stronger.

23:40Sal Di Stefano:Well, and so long as you're putting on more muscle than you are fat, you're winning. Yeah. So you put five pounds on and you add one or two pounds of fat, but you got three pounds or four pounds of muscle. That's a great win. I will say this, though.

23:50Adam Schafer:Have you guys ever had a client? I had a female client like this where the goal was getting body fat. We don't even care. Oh, yeah. Muscle's cool. We're going to work out because we want to stay fit. But she walked around so lean. She had fertility issues. and it was literally like, no, no, no, we need to gain 8 % body fat. Like that's the goal.

24:05Sal Di Stefano:Well, that was Katrina before we had Max. The doctor said to her, you need to be a higher body fat percentage.

24:09Adam Schafer:She was fit, healthy. Oh, yeah, yeah.

24:11Sal Di Stefano:She's always carried herself at a lean, low body fat. In fact, hers is abnormally low, always. Like Katrina walks around at 16 % body fat, but she doesn't look like it to me. She looks like she's like more in the 20 % range, but she walks around 16%, 17 % body fat. And so when she got tested and the doctor's like, yeah, no, you have to gain. And I remember like that's all we cared about was gaining body fat,

24:30Adam Schafer:What did she do for that?

24:32Sal Di Stefano:Cheeseburgers and fries. Laid off. Yeah, I mean, it was like, believe it or not, it was very difficult for her. It's not like something that she, trying to put body fat on was, it's funny how our bodies tend to find, and everybody's is unique to them, this kind of equilibrium or homeostasis. And north or south of that is difficult. It's equally difficult. Whether you're trying to - You have to push through. Yeah, yeah. We all kind of naturally fall into an area, and to aggressively go one way or the other tends to be pretty challenging. And so I'd say it was equally as challenging as it was for her to probably get as lean as she's ever been.

25:10Sal Di Stefano:So it was funny to watch that. Yeah, that's interesting.

25:13Adam Schafer:All right, I got a study on comparing the effects of red light therapy to minoxidil for hair regrowth.

25:21Sal Di Stefano:Minoxidil is the... So you put it on your scalp? I know, but that's like commonly... Rogaine. Yeah, thank you. I was going to say, I was going to do for the brand.

25:28Adam Schafer:So by the way, the background of minoxidil, minoxidil was originally researched for lowering blood pressure. But the side effect that they saw was hair regrowth. So of course, we're like, that's a way better market. It kind of lowers blood pressure, but it definitely grows hair back. Just like Viagra, yeah. Yeah, because it, that's right. It's the other thing. But minoxidil will regrow hair to an extent. It's one of the few things that has proven to work, which by the way, I tried it before, and I didn't realize that it has this blood pressure effect. and I felt so loopy on it. And then I realized it was the minoxidil.

25:59Adam Schafer:But anyway, they compared red light therapy to minoxidil. It's as effective, minus any of the side effects. In fact, when you're putting - Positive effects. Positive effects. Positive scalp effects, positive muscle recovery effects. Mitochondrial health. Positive mitochondrial health, whereas minoxidil. Does it have staying power? Like, do you see an effect and then, but if you are not as consistent after a while, does it kind of like dwindle? No, no, no. You got to keep using it. now here's the cool thing when they combine the two you had synergistic effects oh wow yeah so if someone's if a guy's listening right now and or even a woman because some women suffer from uh androgenic alopecia or just an alopecia using both red light therapy and minoxidil is like a one-two punch and it's got dramatically better results oh interesting together oh interesting so it's yeah and that would be one of the best that's one of the things that um that you know i would do if i really cared that much i really don't give a shit none of us really do huh no Maybe Doug knows, probably cares the most.

26:57Adam Schafer:Doug, you use the red light therapy on your head. Yeah, I do. How often are you doing it? About three days a week. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what the data shows. About three days a week will give you the result that you're looking for.

27:08Sal Di Stefano:Maybe we'll all finally come around when we're about 10 years older and Doug still looks younger than we do. I see a lot of influencers going, is it like turkey? They have this procedure where they plant the hair follicles. Is it because how good they are over there or how cheap it is over there? I think it's cheap and they have like a whole system where they bring in people internationally and then they set you up at this hotel and then it's like the doctor's there. That's what it is. Yeah.

27:36Adam Schafer:Just use the Juve red light. You're going to get all these other additional benefits. But I have a, I won't say too much. I have a friend who went somewhere to do the hair transplant and it's, bro, it is a major deal. Yeah. You know what he, because he'd look like the day after. Oh God. dude he like a mushroom yeah bro it's anisole i was like oh my god i saw the picture i was like no i will never do that's the other part of doing it overseas i think it's because people don't want to see you yeah for a while no it's way cheaper yeah it costs them like a third okay to go somewhere else to do it here but no way no way serious i have a i have another buddy of mine who's older much older than i am who got the hair transplant surgery back in the day when you could kind of tell so you could see the like the rows of hair like it doesn't look natural bro he denies it too just print it on there and he still denies it to this day he's like bro i could tell you know i never did okay dude your hair doesn't grow too perfect yeah you got rows of hair growing bro

28:38Sal Di Stefano:it's like a rug doesn't work that way i saw that yeah didn't justin bring up joey swall already did we talk about on the podcast i didn't bring up my old friend you did or you didn't no i didn't oh you didn't did you see all the drama going on with him i just i yeah i just i saw recently that he um something about hulk hogan he brought up and then he got like yeah so when hulk hogan passed away he uh shared a video it was an old video that he had done i guess hulk hogan had sent him like a real hulk hogan costume like so he knew him sent him a real costume and uh so he you know wore it in the gym and worked out one day a lot smaller costume yeah and video videoed the whole the whole thing and when hulk hogan passed away he posted a video and of that him working out doing that and i guess right now a lot of people i didn't know this until i did a little bit of digging and watch some of the commentary on this a lot of people that have been you know sharing hulk hogan positive stories or giving him you know credit rest in peace for whatever you know there's a lot in the in within the comments is a lot of controversy because of some of the stuff

29:40Adam Schafer:that he had said and he had done so when did he so instead he was racist when did he don't you

29:44Sal Di Stefano:remember the racist it got oh it was on so it was confusing he was dog the bounty hunter it was an argument with his wife i saw it i remember i watched his documentary and i remember what happened this was a huge black guy on him how long ago was it oh it was over 15 years ago i think maybe maybe more maybe 20 something years ago and he's having a fight with his wife and you know and i she has i think she's hanging out with a black guy or friend or something like that and he's like saying racist comments oh for her oh i don't want you hanging out with those people like it's like Yeah, it's really bad.

30:15Sal Di Stefano:It's a really, really, it's a really bad thing that he did and said, and then got caught, you know, and so just a massive black eye. So because of that, and because people have probably seen the documentary in the last five years where they covered that, it's top of mind for these people. And so there's all this vitriol in the comments section. How dare you give him a tribute? Yes, he was racist, sexist, all the things, and like just blasting him. and this is the thing i don't like about joey swall dude and you know some people some people are only familiar with him since he was on his kick with uh you know the you know calling people

30:51Adam Schafer:out at the gym or whatever he found a new he found a new shtick right because before that he

30:56Sal Di Stefano:was uh we were talking about him in shreds yeah wait if you go back he was scamming uh everybody with shreds yeah his supplements come on yes and so when that went under and that got blasted for all the shady stuff that they were doing. He pivoted to this guy.

31:12Adam Schafer:This nice guy in the gym.

31:13Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, and he's always catered to his audience like that. So anyways, the audience starts -

31:19Adam Schafer:His own audience turned on him.

31:20Sal Di Stefano:Oh, they turned on him bad. And then - Uh-oh, he did the Cardinal mess up where you go and apologize? Yes, but it gets worse. So he goes and he apologizes, but he's doing it defensively as he's doing it. And then he refers to colored people. No, he didn't. No, he didn't say that. Yes. He said exactly that. He said it just like that. And when he said it, what he said was like, well, if you're going to come after me, and he's apologizing, so it's an apology video, you need to come after the colored athletes too. And I'm just like, oh, I saw it. But you know what? Karma, you dumbass. You know what I'm saying?

31:55Sal Di Stefano:That's what you get for playing into the, trying to make everybody happy, still stepping all over your shit. So then he got just blasted again for that. And then he went on this like, I'm going off of social media. i'm done and it's just like dude this is what okay uh we talked not that long ago about um

32:14Adam Schafer:i forgot how we got on social media audience is not your real fan well remember we were talking

32:19Sal Di Stefano:about that i talked to you guys about that there was a good uh documentary and i forget what it was called on netflix and i you guys hadn't watched it but i was sharing with you like and i was just talking about what it was oh it was um liverking what happens to these people that build these fake personalities on the internet is they what and you and it it's again we talk about like insidious things like it just you don't even realize it but you you begin to form this character and do things online that get the likes and the views and the shares and even if you claim it's your authentic self if you keep pursuing those likes and views it's really not you're constantly shaping you become influenced that's right absolutely you become influenced on who this person is that you're becoming all for the outcome of this and so you look at these examples of liver king joey swole and there's tons of them of these massive characters online that everybody think are so great or wonderful it's like these aren't even really them it's like they have they have created this persona based off the feedback you guys have all been coming and they become it and let me tell you that's a torturous place to live i don't care how rich they get from it inside they're absolutely tortured because they are not living their authentic self and so and then you see examples of this manifest when you know it doesn't work out you know you and then you try and backpedal like like obviously the original post you know again wrapped in oh i'm doing a tribute to him really was done to piggyback off the likes and views that are going around on Hulk Hogan because he just died.

33:57Sal Di Stefano:So, I mean, because if it was really about Hulk Hogan, why wouldn't you have posted that well before or after or talked about, like, it's like you did that post just because you wanted to get attention because everybody's talking about his death. And then you get lambasted for that. So then you do another post to try and backpedal from that. Two fails. Yeah, then you can't get your words right and fall. I mean, it's just like, this is the game you play when you're trying to appease everybody and be this person that you really are, man.

34:24Adam Schafer:Yeah, and then these celebrities are all people, and they probably have more challenges than the average person because of their attention. But you worship a celebrity, you're going to be let down, man. Yeah.

34:37Sal Di Stefano:I do not have the slightest bit of empathy for these people that chase that. Yeah. You made your bed. Yeah. You wanted to. You're bringing it on.

34:47Adam Schafer:You wanted to be that. Well, I mean, I'll say this. I grew up with Hulk Hogan, a huge fan, right? I don't know who he is, though. I don't know him for real. No. I grew up with the character. I know the character. Yeah. Hulk Hogan isn't his real name. Yeah. Like, that's who I like. I don't know who his real name is. I don't give a shit. I mean, you just don't know him. I don't know him. Well, it's like athletes.

35:06Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I love sports, man. And I admire a lot of athletes. But I don't get hung up on their politics. I don't get hung up on who they are at home or what they do in their bedroom. Hulk Hogan was awesome. Here's the litmus test.

35:17Adam Schafer:I don't know if this will work for everybody. It will work for me, though. Like, would I let this person babysit my kids? No, I don't know you. I don't care how awesome you are I don't care how many businesses you built or how great you are at this thing that I think is cool I'm not going to let you watch my kid

35:30Sal Di Stefano:you're unique with that because some people are stupid remember Michael Jackson how many people let their kids go over to Michael Jackson because he's Michael Jackson all these parents were all you don't even know who this but then you look at that and you see how much of them were paid to say that in that documentary did you hear about that? no yeah so there's more shenanigans i've heard the counter conspiracy coming out lately with with the michael jackson well because all of them before that like they didn't um press charges in court and then they do this documentary after he's dead uh so they were motivated by somebody and wasn't it wasn't so i i think i've heard a little bit of the other side of this conspiracy the one that i think you're kind of alluding to is it didn't have some ties to like what he was doing with Sony or yeah and that and then all of a sudden magically all this stuff think about it I mean he he literally bought the rights to the Beatles to even had like Elvis he had like a few major major uh record like library and catalogs uh under his control and um you know he's just smart he was smart with his money and and made these big investments and then yeah and then got in conflict with some of the Sony techs.

36:45Sal Di Stefano:So there's like, and this is not like Sony's first example of that. Like I know right now actually I think Drake is going through something that because when he tried to get the rights to do something, they try to sabotage his reputation to hurt him before he went to. And I'm not saying he's like a great guy or anything. Again, he's Michael Jackson. That's his real name. Like he was awesome. But like his extracurricular activities, his life, I don't want to know about it. to the most part but that kind of muddies it up a bit for me like i was pretty convinced he's just a disgusting pedo you know but now i'm like hmm this is interesting what happened didn't prince

37:23Adam Schafer:do something like that too where he was like he said some stuff and then suddenly he died wasn't there something about conspiracy around prince as well oh i don't know could be i mean

37:31Sal Di Stefano:i think the one that is all centered around well i think it's more interesting than i see because of all the the uh pedo stuff going on is the uh all the rockers that were doing the um you chester and there was like four of them that were all working on this.

37:46Adam Schafer:Chris Cornell.

37:47Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, working on this whole documentary. Yeah, documentary. And they all magically suicided themselves. Oh. And I could have sworn that one of them even came out in a concert saying, I would not kill myself or something like that shortly before it all happened. That's very suspect. And then this is all before Epstein, right? Before we were all talking about Epstein. I feel like now, if that was happening with Epstein, there would have been more eyes on that. but I feel like it got all brushed under the rug too. So yeah, no, super well. But I mean, back to like social media and these people that we idolize online.

38:21Sal Di Stefano:It's just, it's so wild to me how, I mean, we talked about -

38:27Adam Schafer:Even for people who are trying to build a social media business, the people that like your stuff, they're not really, they're not really your friends. They're not really your family. You know, it's great. it's great that they find your stuff valuable it's awesome um but uh it's not the same thing as real people and real friends kids fall for this all the time because kids want that popularity and so on social media they'll see how many likes it's like that's not real it's not the same as real people i mean i'm just telling you what a struggle that is right now because my oldest is like kind of like paying attention to that and wants to see if like he can create a video that's gonna get attention and this and that and it's like and i'm not i try to check myself because i'm like if i was a kid what would i be interested in like every kid's interested in that and it's like if you're to and i'm just hammering him no this is stupid no like like don't even worry about that like you know do something substantial and like but it's just goes right over the head but uh yeah it's it's frustrating but also i'm just like i'm trying to like calm myself down with that a little bit yeah because you push too hard he's gonna go yeah i love hearing you share about

39:40Sal Di Stefano:this because i i like i obviously i'm far further away from when this day comes but it's probably inevitable especially considering your dad your dad is all over the paying attention to what we're doing a lot more now so yeah so i mean it's it i obviously i wouldn't get mad and i wouldn't say no you can't i think the the best thing you can do is to let him explore it and then as things unfold is those those teaching lessons will reveal themselves you know well think about one of the

40:06Adam Schafer:worst one of the worst things i mean there's a lot of bad things that can happen to kids another bad thing that can happen to a kid is they become famous oh yeah that's actually a terrible curse for a kid like if your kid is trying to get famous uh you pray that they don't because if they do, they have all this false love, all this reinforcing feedback that they're so awesome. And kids are so, it's so, look, we were all teenagers. You try so hard to be someone or something. Well, look, we were just talking about like Joey Swole,

40:41Sal Di Stefano:Liverkey, these are grown ass men. Yeah, I know. Look how much it affects them. Let alone a teenager. Imagine all them little children brains. I mean, way more susceptible. I know some of them do have kind of children brains, but you know what I mean? to say it's very simple you know i mean one of the things i i i love that it's just another thing about the the partnership that we all have when we all get together like imagine if one of us actually really seek that i really wanted to be that really wanted that the guy yeah the fact that it's always been this like no you know you you be the guy you go do the thing like i don't want it i mean even when we uh i mean we thought about this well before we had the the attention that we had uh all look at all of our social media it's our brand first and then our names which nobody will tell you to do that there is nobody that is a influencer i see that a lot they would tell you time marketing it is they would say you you brand it to your name your fame all your things like that and we put the brand before all of our names and it was all and we even put all the energy and effort into growing the mind pump it's just brand more than our individual brand

41:46Adam Schafer:It's just crazy to me because you are going to mess up in life. That's a fact. There isn't anybody in the world. Everybody messes up in life. One way or another. It's hard enough to mess up. It's hard enough to mess up in front of your wife or your husband or your friends or your siblings or your parents. That's already hard enough. Imagine messing up in front of thousands or millions of people. Oh, my God. And you're not equipped to deal with that. that's not this is why public speaking if you were to add when you when they do surveys and these studies asking people the things that they're most terrified of doing public speaking is always in the top number one it's always at the top now why is public speaking so scary because when you go up on stage to talk if you mess up everybody sees it and you are shunned by too many people evolutionary outcast that is death that's death yeah so so why would anybody it's like you're guaranteed to mess up in life guaranteed 100 you're gonna mess up and you want a lot of eyes on you on what terrible so and i can understand when people leverage it for business and i would say my advice to people is to be as honest and real as possible so that when

42:59Sal Di Stefano:you do mess up people already know like you're also not even factoring in human psychology of how much we love the rise and fall yeah we love that love that underdog story or comeback yeah And so people - We love to take people down. Take people down, of course. Yes. So even if you, like, they may be all rooting for you on the way up, and then you arrive, and then look at how many people flip and turn on that because they want to see the fall. I always knew he was a piece of shit. Yeah. I mean, they're just - And so if you already have this pressure of the inevitable, I'm going to screw up because we're humans and we all have failures.

43:36Sal Di Stefano:We're all full of sin. It's going to happen. Yeah. But then you also now have a ton of people that are looking for it and can't wait for it or trying to set you up. And so it's like you're really playing with fire with seeking that attention and wanting that. I think that's a danger.

43:54Adam Schafer:That's why if you build a business based on that, my advice would be to be as real as possible and put your failures forward before they get revealed on their own. because then people kind of will be like, okay, well, yeah, I know that person is not perfect because they talk about how I'm not perfect. Admit when you mess up too. Be real. Because if you put out this facade that you're like amazing, which is easy to do with cameras and whatever, and then you build this fame, you accomplish this fame that you're looking for based off that, you make one mistake. You are going to get this, and people are going to pile on you and pile on you.

44:29Adam Schafer:And it's, I can't imagine being on the other end of that, especially as a kid. You imagine as a kid. I know how hard it would be in school. So psychologically damaging. Imagine peeing your pants as a kid in front of four of your friends. That sucks. Imagine doing it in front of your school. Oh, my God. Like, I need to move. Now imagine doing something like that on social media. From the one incident, like, in my life where I was in front of my entire class, and I didn't know. I wasn't prepared. I had a whole subject that I was, like, unfamiliar with, And it was like this entire process of being able to bake and create this specific treat.

45:06Like this is, I took it from my mom's idea and because I didn't have an idea, I was like, I don't know what to do to present in front of the class. And so I get up there and I just freeze and I didn't know what to do. And like everybody started laughing. Oh, how old were you? I was in fourth grade. And so it just impacted me from then on out. It took me like decades to recover from that, dude. It's still messing with you. And it's just like, that's like one little thing. That was nothing, you know? And like all the kids, they probably just left it off, you know? Like, oh, look at him. He doesn't know anything or whatever.

45:41Yeah. You're not the kid that pooped his pants. I wasn't the kid that pooped my pants.

45:44Sal Di Stefano:Why do you think it is that we didn't, that there wasn't a part of a, like it is a bit unique that three of us, and I'm including Doug, because Doug's definitely not someone who seeks for this, that we got together and we, none of us seeked that fame and attention like that. because what i also find ironic about that is i know that you got you guys were popular kids too so it's not like so you and i probably admittedly liked having lots of friends and being known and all those things like that so then you would think that would translate into somebody who gets a microphone like this and wants more that but none of us do so it's interesting to me yeah that it's unique that it's unique like that wasn't like you we weren't all like lone

46:22Adam Schafer:wolves in school where we didn't like it i mean i didn't so mine was a little different i i didn't really care so much in school uh but i wanted my parents approval i definitely wanted my dad's approval i wanted him to think that i was great yeah i didn't get the feel of lots of people's approval till i first became a personal trainer because it came it was so it became it was such a natural thing for me yeah performing at that level at that young age and then becoming a manager at a young age and a general manager that's when i and then it was i didn't want to let these people down uh that's when i felt that but you asked why all of us don't really care um i think it's i don't know i i would have to say that uh that someone else i mean i would have thought my my thought is someone else is in control because if any one of us was like that

47:09Sal Di Stefano:this would have gone south a long time ago i mean i would have thought my personality that because i i admit it that um i liked the attention as a kid i i liked i liked popular i like yeah i liked being liked by, in fact, one of the things I prided myself on as a kid in high school is that I had friends in every group. Like I was not, I didn't have just hang out with a clique. Like I was friends with everybody. And so I do have a bit of that. I like that and I like being liked, but I don't seek the fame or the attention thing though. So it's, you would think that that would translate into that.

47:41Sal Di Stefano:And I don't have like a good story like Justin does where something happened to me, traumatic where I'm like, fuck that.

47:46Adam Schafer:I don't want nobody to see me.

47:48Sal Di Stefano:you know and i and admittedly am i not the first one to be like bow out i mean if we found a replacement for me on the podcast i believe i'd probably be the first one about maybe justin and i would arm wrestle for that but like i would quickly be like i'm out cool you guys got somebody who could sit in my chair i'll go i'll do the things behind the scenes which is where i'd prefer to be so it's interesting that it somehow happened that way where three of us don't care or seek or want that. I think someone else has control. That's what I think.

48:16Adam Schafer:I do. Could you imagine if one of us sought that out? The guy behind the guy. That was always my title. What? I mean, not in that sense. Okay, Justin. You take it to that level, dude. Okay, bro. I'm the guy behind the guy. Well, I'd rather be the guy behind the guy, not the guy in front of the guy. Well, I wouldn't be the guy in front of the guy either. I'll be the guy over here. You'll be the guy on the side of the guy.

48:43Sal Di Stefano:that's fair my bad did you ever want that as a kid or do you do you ever would you remember ever like seeking popularity or wish like did you were you like that at all or no you know i think there was a period i thought it'd be cool to be famous okay i did um and i think a lot of kids think that way right everybody paying attention to you so on so forth but the reality reality of it as you start to examine it isn't so exciting exciting you know so if you have a choice between being rich or famous i'll take rich oh god oh yeah there's no comparison yeah yeah how can anybody but no that's not true a lot of people i get it a lot of people would seek fame over money so weird i mean actually uh social media is a great example of that there's a lot of people that are famous that don't make a lot of money yeah there's a lot of instagram people that have millions of followers that was no money i remember that being like one of the biggest epiphanies i had when we started doing this i couldn't wait to meet these people that had millions of followers i thought man the business mind behind these people are going to be so wild i'm like not at all like they have a lot of attention and they're they're famous online but they have a their their business acumen is horrible i wonder the percentage of people that want fame that just didn't get any attention at home you know that were sort of home or school or discarded or yeah like their parents were always gone or like they had a big family and they were the youngest or whatever it is that didn't they

50:01Adam Schafer:got over well seen well bishop baron uh said i think it was thomas aquinas that said this that the things that people make out of that people turn into idols it was uh money fame power yeah pleasure or honor which is which is fame okay so it's like i either i either want power over other people and i'll chase that or i want money and i'll chase that that becomes my or i want pleasure and i'll chase that or i want fame and those are the four most common ones that people chase it would have been a problem for me if i if i went really far with athletics because i was so identified with it to a point where yeah the honor thing would have been you know like a big deal like if i was in the pros and then i was like super bowl or you know whatever that would have

50:45Sal Di Stefano:been like huge that also makes sense why fame is probably one of the number ones sought after too because what you as you were listening i was going oh actually that's interesting fame is the only one that almost guarantees all the other ones too could i mean almost here's exactly it's like very most of them like if you get you can turn into well you get really really famous you can leverage it yeah i mean i mean normally if you're really really famous you're great at something a sport uh actor a thing uh which then equates to money which then equates to power like so that one kind of like you could be very you could be a very powerful person not even know who they are right somebody who runs one of the biggest fortune 500 companies you don't even know the name of that person or a politician right or like so you can be very powerful you can be very honorable you You have a lot of honor and not have the other ones.

51:32Sal Di Stefano:And so fame tends to -

51:34Adam Schafer:Well, fame and honor.

51:34Sal Di Stefano:Honor is fame. That's the one. Okay. The other ones don't tend to feed into as much as that does.

51:40Adam Schafer:Did I do this with you guys before? The Arthur Brooks exercise with those four? Did I do that with you guys? I don't recall. So to figure out which one is most likely to rule over you. Oh, okay. So what you do is you take away the one that has the least pull on you. And this is what it looks like. So it's power, pleasure, money, or fame. okay honor fame right if you take that away that means all you'll ever get is the average amount of that so if it's money and that's the one that least has pull on you then when you take it away you'll only ever make the average amount if it's pleasure you'll only ever get the average amount of pleasure and so on okay and so you got to work down the list so think of your think between them

52:18Sal Di Stefano:so let's do i'll do me pleasures would be the first i would drop so you're okay with average

52:23Adam Schafer:pleasure for the rest of your life okay if you had to pick one okay is that true yeah i would say Like if we say it again, we go. So it's pleasure, power, money, or fame.

52:33Sal Di Stefano:Actually, no. Fame would be first.

52:34Adam Schafer:Fame would be first. So just average fame. Yeah. Average. Okay. So that's first. What's next between pleasure? Then pleasure. Money. Then pleasure. Or pleasure. Pleasure. Pleasure is next. Average. Yep. Okay. So now what are we left with? We're left with money. And power. And power. Yeah. Which one would you take next? I would let go of power. Let go of power. Yeah. So money is the most likely. That's the most likely one that's going to. For sure. Which I'm open.

52:57Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, which is I've had plenty of insecurities around that, talked about what I've had to work through that.

53:02Adam Schafer:Cool exercise, though, right? What about you, Justin? Did you go through those at all? Yeah, well, just listening to you, I'd probably reduce it down to, I think power would be, like money would be one that I'd probably end up with. Also. Yeah. So that would be the one for you. What about for you, Justin? Exactly the same. Wow. That's interesting. Interesting. You are what? The first one I'd give up is power. I could care less about having power or anyone. uh the next one would be what were they there were there were money pleasure pleasure and fame and fame uh fame would be next yeah and then it's really tough between pleasure and money and money

53:36Sal Di Stefano:really really tough probably i would say you would give up money before pleasure i think so yeah i think so i think you're money than pleasure it's so interesting that money even lasts that long for you because i feel like you have such a good hold of like it does it means nothing to you yeah

53:47Adam Schafer:it doesn't make that big of a difference for me but power i could care less like get rid of by the way the studies show that people who uh who who were powers the one that they struggle with are the most likely to be okay with being under tyrannical regimes so people respect the power or something maybe because they think they can move up in it and they can accomplish it so they don't mind living in a system where there's power over them because they worship that power yeah

54:14Sal Di Stefano:because you respect the power so much and you want it and you're you understand the ranks or

54:19Adam Schafer:something interesting that is that's a good exercise like maintaining my autonomy and and like that i guess i associated that in with power yeah no power over others power over okay well it

54:30Sal Di Stefano:might change that so then the the then the net i mean you still would end up with money like you still end up with money so we the three of us all end up there and you end up in i would follow sal with money being the the main one so so i pleasure i think pleasure before money so you would you so

54:44Adam Schafer:Pleasure is the last one for you. No, the second to the last would be pleasure and then money. Training places. Okay. So it's a little bit different. But similar in that way. Wow.

54:54Sal Di Stefano:So, okay. Then what's the next layer to that exercise? Now you know that.

55:00Adam Schafer:That's the one you got to watch the most. Right. Doesn't mean you don't watch the other ones. Right. But that's the one you got to pay attention to the most.

55:06Sal Di Stefano:So an example of that to me, using me as an example, because I've openly talked about my relationship with money and stuff like that. Like that's why like the exercise of like, I remember, I so remember this, like being in a room, like if I didn't know you guys really well and I, but I knew of you, you're successful with that. I just, I would have to like actively go in and going like, you do not need to talk about how much money you've made or your success. Like I'd have to have that talk with myself because it was so ingrained. The, the, the insecurity was so deep that it was a natural reaction for that to happen.

55:38Sal Di Stefano:That I would like have to like talk to myself to be like, not do it. And it took a long time before that became a habit and behavior. So if you know that that's one of your things, and there's obviously times in your life where it probably presents itself. And so it takes that much effort, I think, to really work on it. Is, you know, when you come into those positions, those times, like, okay, what would I normally do right here? Okay, I'm aware of it, right? And trying to reverse that.

56:06Adam Schafer:No, for me, with the pleasure one, it's just can be worshiping good feelings, which can look like working out all the time, taking supplements or hormones, all the stuff kind of connected. It goes deeper than that, right? Because it's not just those four, but oftentimes your idol is connected to one of those kind of four. But that would be me. By the way, fitness is probably what prevent, what would have saved me from being a drug addict because I have that tendency. If I wasn't so into fitness, I could easily see how I would be somebody that would go down that path with drugs. Interesting. For sure.

56:39Adam Schafer:Oh, yeah. For sure. Because I wanted to build muscle so bad. I was like, that doesn't help me build muscle.

56:43Sal Di Stefano:I wonder how many people can do that exercise and admit that that's their thing or the awareness. That's a hard thing to do is really acknowledge that and confront it.

56:56Adam Schafer:Well, the biggest realization is this, is that your top value based on your actions, not what you say, but what you actually live by. Someone followed you around and looked at your actions, and they all lead. Everything leads to a top value. Every decision you make is based off of value. I turn left because it's better than right, or I choose this shirt because it's better than that shirt. Ultimately, at the top is your top value. That's your God. That is what you worship right there. So for people who are like, I don't worship God, or, you know, well, you worship something. And so you look at your actions, and what is it?

57:31Adam Schafer:And is that a good God to worship? No, none of those things are. They're tyrannical. Yeah, that's why I went back to saying

57:38Sal Di Stefano:how many people do you think would openly admit that. Yeah, that's a tough one.

57:42Adam Schafer:Anyway, speaking of some of the stuff, I brought up some stats on exercise and sobriety. Our friends over at Rock Recovery Center, exercise is a very important part of their protocol for helping people get off addiction. And they have studies on this. Do you guys want to hear what the studies show that exercise does for people in addiction treatment? Yeah. People who incorporated exercise into addiction treatment programs reported a 95 % increase in abstinence rates. 95? Increase in abstinence rates because of the exercise. Wow. Isn't that crazy?

58:23Sal Di Stefano:That's so high and crazy that it's kind of crazy that more of these recovery centers don't do what they're doing.

58:29Adam Schafer:Well, go down this. Look, we just saw a huge study with over 100 ,000 people. Exercise, outperformed therapy, and medicine for depression. For depression, anxiety. Okay. So exercise is the best treatment for those things. And what's often tied to addiction is depression and anxiety, either from the addiction or as part of the reason why you become addicted. So there's that. It produces a healthier brain, which reduces the craving for certain substances. You produce your own natural opiates when you exercise. And then it's the discipline and structure. it's the discipline and structure of doing something.

59:05Adam Schafer:So, um, I mean, they're there. I think this is why they, yeah, it's empowering. A lot of times. Yeah. It's like this, this despair, you know? And so to empower somebody in a moment of despair is, yeah, that's powerful. There was also a 20 to 30 % reduction in withdrawal symptoms, uh, from people who exercise. So the withdrawal that happens from going off drugs, you'll get a significant reduction if you also exercise.

59:27Sal Di Stefano:Do you think there's a physiological part of, yeah, you screening the sweat and getting out? Yes. Yeah. Yes, dude. Totally.

59:33Adam Schafer:So, yeah, I mean, this is part of what they do is they use, they don't force people, but this is definitely a key part of what they do is they use exercise along with more traditional methods for sobriety, and I mean, I think it's great.

59:46Sal Di Stefano:Aren't the boys coming down here in a couple weeks? I believe so. They're coming down. I believe so. Hop on, aren't they? Yeah, I think they are. I think I saw that like in a week or two. I think they're coming this way. Yeah, it'll be great. Yeah.

59:56Adam Schafer:Butcher Box delivers grass-fed, finished meat, free range organic chicken, pork that is raised, crate free, wild caught fish, all of it to your door. Amazing protein. That's healthy. Great fatty acid profile. Great prices. Go to butcherbox.com forward slash mind pump. By the way, if you go on that link, you'll get a hookup. You'll get$20 off your first box. Plus free chicken breast, ground beef or salmon included in your box for an entire year for free. Again, butcherbox.com forward slash mind pump. Check it out. Our first caller is Michael from Canada. Michael, what's happening? What's up, buddy?

1:00:36Hey, guys. Yo. Thanks for having me on. This is pretty cool. Yeah, you got it, man. How can we help you? I guess I'll start off like everyone else and just say, you know, thanks for everything you guys do. Since finding your podcast, it's been a huge help in my life and my kind of fitness journey. So my question was a bit broad. uh so i'll give you a bit of background on me i guess and then kind of get get into it so uh started working out kind of when i was a teenager on and off um 41 now um went through about a five-year lull where i really didn't do much training and then at the beginning of 2020 i threw out my lower back pretty badly so went for some physio my physio told me i needed to strengthen my core in order to, you know, prevent future injuries and hopefully make, if they do happen again, not so bad.

1:01:29So started doing some core work. Then COVID happened, started getting into bodyweight training and got really into kind of calisthenics for about two years, fairly consistent, working out kind of two, three days a week, picked up running during that time, which I really fell in love with as well. And then beginning of, sorry, towards the end of 2023, kind of got back into the gym, went back to my own programming, because I thought I knew what I was doing, which was your typical kind of bro split three days a week, you know, back by chest tris, legs and shoulders, discovered you guys kind of around spring of 2024.

1:02:03So I listened to the podcast, realized I don't really know as much as I thought I did. So I bought the anabolic and performance package, ran anabolic. And I got to tell you guys that at the age of 40, I had the kind of best results I've ever had in my life. So it was awesome. I ran performance after that and really enjoyed it. And then just been kind of running a cycle of maps programming up until now. Currently actually doing symmetry, just about to finish phase three. I'm really into the bodybuilding type of stuff. So looking forward to the five by five in phase four. But back to my question.

1:02:40So I have three kids. My youngest son was born in April. slowly. Um, at the time I was thinking about doing maps 15 after he was born, just given everything you guys kind of talk about and, uh, knowing I'm not going to have that much time or energy. Um, but getting six days a weekend, just, I wasn't going to be able to do even if it was for 15 minutes. So I kind of ran anabolic just the two days a week, easy light and go too crazy. Um, anyways, had some really great results over the past, you know, two years that I've been following you guys and figured I tried doing a cut this summer, which was kind of the first time I've ever really done like a real cut.

1:03:19Maybe back in my 20s, I would kind of cut out carbs for a couple of weeks and I was good to go. So, you know, it started tracking my calories and macros and whatnot. I'm a finance guy, so I like data like you guys. So I have some data points I can kick off here. So I got up. So prior, I would say to really getting into your programming, I was about 168. I got up to about 185 back, let's say, beginning of June of this year. Clothes still fit relatively well, but I could tell I was putting on a bit of fat. So that 185 mark was my like, all right, time to kind of rein in a little bit. Started really watching what I was eating, went from 185 to like 182.4.

1:04:05So that's what I'm kind of considering really my starting point. I estimated my maintenance calories are probably around, I think, 2 ,800 a day. So I didn't want to do anything too extreme given the stress and craziness of having a newborn baby. So I tried to do a 500 calorie deficit as the cut. So I was aiming to get 2 ,200 calories a day. I was doing that for about three weeks and it was just really hard, really hard to hit that number. I was probably averaging more like 24, 2500 a day. Try to eat mostly whole foods, try to be smart about what I'm eating. But you know, eating with your kids and not sleeping and the craziness of life, it was just making it really hard.

1:04:52So after about three weeks, I basically saw no movement on the scale. I was using the Spren app to kind of estimate my body fat percentage and Spren tagged me about 19.4 % at the time at the beginning. And it was 19.4 % again after three weeks. So that was kind of the start of my email to you guys just saying like, am I just kind of nuts for trying to do this at this crazy time of my life? But there has been some developments, I would say, since I wrote that email. It's only been three weeks, I know. But I've still been averaging about, let's say, 2450 a day. I've been trying to hit about 150 to 170 grams of protein a day.

1:05:32So call it 160 on, on average. Um, and as of this past Friday, I actually clocked in at, uh, 178.6. So those is about just a four pound kind of loss, uh, on the scale. And then my body fat per the app was 17.3%. So it seems to be moving in the right direction. Um, maybe I wasn't seeing anything. And then I kind of saw this quick thing. I don't know if that's typical to kind of happen.

1:05:59Sal Di Stefano:That's 100 % typical, bro. You literally, first of all, incredible job as far as your decisions around your programming, even your decision to go down to two days a week on the anabolic when the kid came. Even your attempt of the 500-calorie deficit and then finding out, shit, that was just a lot or hard to do consistently. And the results you got are exactly that. Had you probably been really consistent with the 500 calories or more, you would have probably seen a little bit faster movement. But you didn't. But that's okay because what ended up happening was over the course of six weeks, you saw it happen.

1:06:32Sal Di Stefano:And it's just like how a child grows. It's the same way that we lose body fat. Sometimes you'll do everything right, and it feels like you're just kind of hovering. And then all of a sudden, you didn't change anything. But the next week, you see this nice drop. Same thing like kids. Kids kind of stay the same height, and then all of a sudden, whoop, they hit this growth spread. The body responds very similar like that. And you're in a really good, healthy, decent place as long as you have the patience. as long as you had the patience of like, hey, I just keep heading this way and I'll slowly lean out over time.

1:07:04Sal Di Stefano:Probably a better strategy considering where you're at in your life than to aggressively cut or really try and force it to happen any faster. So I think you're doing a great job.

1:07:14Adam Schafer:Yeah, Michael, the thing to consider as you continue working out and you're on this fitness journey for the rest of your life, you got to look at the context of life and what tends to happen and different seasons. And in a season of having a new child, everybody's fitness declines. Everybody's strength declines. Everybody's stamina and endurance decline. Everybody, because you're just not getting good sleep. You got more things to worry about, more things to juggle. That season does end, right? As the child grows up, things get a little easier. So it's like when I'm talking to an athlete and an athlete is in season and they're playing hard.

1:07:53Adam Schafer:Like, Sal, I want to build muscle right now. Wrong time. Wrong time. This is not the season to build muscle. What we're going to try to do is prevent what tends to happen in season, which is injury. And so we're going to look at training to try to prevent injury and try to help you recover from the hard games that you're playing. The season of life that you're in now, all we're going to try to do is keep you from going backwards. Now, if we push too hard and try to push too hard to go forward, you often run the risk of actually overdoing things because of the lack of sleep and the just kind of lifestyle factors.

1:08:26Adam Schafer:So consider that as well, right? So right now you're seeing yourself progress, but be very careful. You don't stay too consistent with the deficit and you push too hard because you can very easily swing in the other direction. In other words, if someone were to say to me, what's the worst time to try to accomplish all kinds of fitness goals and fat loss? One of the times I would say is right after you have a baby. That's probably one of the worst times to do it. Basically what I figured. So keep that in mind.

1:08:50Sal Di Stefano:I mean, that being said, what ended up happening in the way it played out actually is pretty nice. It's like you kind of naturally felt that it was really tough to do the 500 cal deficit. So you had a little bit more, but you still were in somewhat of a deficit because you still leaned out. So you probably, I mean, you probably did exactly what should have been done for somebody who still wants to lean out, but also is dealing with probably less sleep and a newborn. It's like, uh, you you're, you're playing it really well right now. To Sal's point, I would just caution you to not. Okay. Let's keep pushing.

1:09:18Sal Di Stefano:Keep, let's go. I saw a couple percent, let's go lower, let's go harder. Because then like he's saying, eventually the body will be like, if you're not getting good sleep and you're also low calorie, you're just adding more stress to your life. And then eventually it goes, no, we're not going to see any more results anymore. And so just be cautious of that. And then if and when that time comes, I would reverse diet you. I'd just say, hey, I think you're doing great right now. Why don't you hang there if it's working well for you and you feel fine and you keep kind of leaning out. But then eventually what might happen is you hit a heart plateau.

1:09:48Sal Di Stefano:and then I'd say, hey, let's add some calories back.

1:09:51Adam Schafer:By the way, Michael, I don't know how accurate your body fat percentage app is, but just speaking of body fat percentages, when you look at the data on body fat percentage ranges for fit men that produce the best or that are correlated to the best health and performance, it's between 13 % to 17%. So you're kind of there. You're in that range. You're at the top of it, but you're in that range of, like if you take a whole group of fit men, the men that tend to be between 13 to 17 % tend to be the healthiest. It's also true for athletic performance. About 13 to 17 % tends to be when you see good performance.

1:10:28Adam Schafer:You go outside of that. Now, depending on the sport, it can be beneficial. But if you start to push beyond 13%, start to go low, low, low, then you start to see detrimental effects often. Yeah, I mean, my goal, I mean, it was kind of an arbitrary goal. I just tried, I said 15 % was what I wanted to get down to. It was more just seeing what I can do and show off the result, the great results that I've been able to kind of achieve over the past two years. My plan was really just to keep this to the end of August, seeing how low I could kind of go, and then probably go back up to like maintenance and maybe do a bulk kind of in the winter.

1:11:07Sal Di Stefano:I like that too. I like that. I like that too. I want to give you this option too. I think what you did was great though. if you don't have math 15 i'd love to send it to you and what you can do is the way we wrote it you could pair the days up so you know i was actually gonna ask you guys that yeah so uh and it would add up to a similar volume would you say as two days of anabolic you'd probably be pretty so what you did is is was a great option for someone who like if you didn't have math 15 but what you can do with math 15 is every every day or like day one day two you could pair as one day day three day four you could pair as another day yeah that'd be great and so we'll send that over to you and that just to you know change it up a little bit or just so you have that option and then the week three you absolutely could go for six days in a row you can but uh for the rest of time you could pair it up so uh we'll send that over to you so you have that as an option but i think all in all uh great job yeah i think what you do is on point thanks appreciate that guys you got it man congratulations little baby yeah thank you i'm looking forward to when i can see you again good stuff man thank you yeah that's a that's a uh you know that's just the season of

1:12:11Adam Schafer:life where it's like i'm playing defense i'm just playing defense i don't want to go backwards it's which maintain and preserve and what's funny is that tends to be the season that people try to push harder yeah uh and i think and i see this a lot probably because the cortisol you think i think it's men get real driven too that's it yeah that's a good that's that's a good i felt that that happens it happens a lot with men it's like you feel this responsibility of a new child so you do it all so you have this drive for work and fitness and then you just add more that's a

1:12:40Sal Di Stefano:good point that's a good point i mean i think what he did was great though i mean smart even even the fact that he was targeting 500 realized how difficult it was didn't do that and then he was rewarded for it so i think i mean audible yeah yeah and all the program choices the way he did the two day a week when the kid i mean it was all it was all great obviously dude listens and pays attention, man. So smart.

1:12:59Adam Schafer:Our next caller is Candace from California. Hi, Candace. Hi, guys. Hello. How are you? So nice to meet you. I'm good. How are you guys? We're great. How can we help you? I can just read my question if that works. Yeah, of course. Okay. First off, I just want to say how much I enjoy listening to your podcast. You all have such a great mix of solid information, humor, and honesty. It's been both motivating and educational for me on my fitness journey. A little bit about me, I'm a 35-year-old mom of two boys, and I work full-time as a respiratory therapist. Despite a busy schedule, I've been working hard to improve my strength and lose some fat.

1:13:45Your podcast has been a huge help in keeping me on track and making smart training decisions. I have two questions I'd love your input on. Number one being reverse dieting. I have been reverse dieting for a little while now and I feel like I need to start increasing my calories, but I'm not sure exactly how much, how often, or when to make those calorie increases. Are there signs I should be looking forward to guide the timing or size of the increases? and then secondly grip strength um for my deadlifts my lower body body seems to be able to handle more weight but my grip is giving out before i can finish my set what's the best way to improve my grip strength so that i can keep progressing in my lifts awesome great questions

1:14:33Adam Schafer:all right so reverse dieting a lot of it is your comfort level a lot of it's really based on you it's like okay of course you can go too high with the reverse diet you know adding a thousand calories to diet might be excessive but it's it's going to be so most the time when i would reverse diet someone we would go like 100 calories uh at a time sometimes 150 200 if they were really low sometimes as little as 50 because they're really apprehensive so it's it's going to be

1:15:01Sal Di Stefano:based a lot of it is on your comfort i wanted to say though you could go as high sometimes as 200 to 500 yeah you could like i mean it depends how low it is and it depends on how like here's the thing you if you go from let's just use some i have no idea where your numbers are but let's say you're somebody who only ate 1300 calories um i can and i bumped you to you know 500 calories uh you're gonna feel that a lot and doesn't necessarily mean it's bad it's just that you're gonna definitely put some weight on but we're probably gonna build some muscle for training correctly and you could be okay but the comfort level for the average person to add 500 calories when they only eat 1300 is like whoa this is a lot this feels a lot i feel full all the time i'm holding water and they freak out.

1:15:40Sal Di Stefano:So it, to Sal's point, it's like, depending on how you are with that and okay with that, like if you're embracing it, and then I've had other female clients of mine that are just like, let's do this. I trust the process. I know what you're talking about. Like just, I'm not going to care about the scale. I'm going to go get strong and I'm just going to keep adding calories. Uh, you could do that. And so it has a lot to do with that, how that is like, how, where are you at calorie wise right now? And have, is this the first time we've ever tried to reverse diet? What's the relationship look like with food?

1:16:11So like five years ago, I'm 5 '10". I would eat like 1 ,000 to 1 ,200 calories and I just didn't know any better. And I started seeing a clinical nutritionist at the time. And so she was like, oh, we need to reverse diet you. So I was pretty scared because I was going from eating like a thousand to 1200 calories to eating 1800. And I was thinking I'm going to get fat. Like I'm going to gain more weight. And I was trying to lose baby weight for my first son. And I ended up losing 10 pounds in the first month and gaining a lot of muscle. And then I had another boy in 2023 and I've just been struggling since then, but I've been on 1800 calories for like the last few years.

1:17:14And, um, I think I need to increase my calories because I'm just like at a plateau. So I feel like I've gained a lot of muscle over the last few years. But since my last son, I haven't been able to lose much fat.

1:17:30Adam Schafer:Candice, do you feel comfortable adding 200 calories? Probably, yeah. Let's do that. Yep. Good place. Yeah, go to 2 ,000 calories. Stay there for a little while. And then when you feel comfortable again, you can go up another 100 or 200. But I think 200 calories would be a good jump for you.

1:17:44Sal Di Stefano:I also would love, if you're not already in our private forum, I'd love for Doug to put you in there. that way as you go through this process you have us there so if like you have questions you like you can just hit us up in there and we could kind of guide you through that process but 200 and go lift some heavy weight and get get stronger than what you already are like that's going to be the

1:18:03Adam Schafer:path for sure let's talk about your deadlifts now um what kind of a grip are you using double overhand are you using alternate hook grip um alternate i have one forward and one backwards okay does that make sense do you that from the very beginning or do you switch it like once it gets heavy for you um i start like that okay and how much are you pulling off the ground when you start to get the fatigue and the grip um my i usually do um romanian deadlifts and i do four sets of 10 of 105 pounds okay oh wow do you do you ever do conventional deadlifting where you

1:18:41Sal Di Stefano:the bar back down no oh yeah oh man well that you're gonna less reps yeah holding on that's hard i mean that's hard for me 10 reps hold on to you know 150 200 pounds a lot that'd be a lot for me so you will see a huge difference to do a conventional deadlift where you set the bar down it kind of lets you reset your grip every rep and then you'll be able to oh yeah that'll make

1:19:06Adam Schafer:Are you looking for hamstring or glute work with that? What's the goal? I just want to really develop to lower body. Doing lower body is my favorite over anything else.

1:19:19Sal Di Stefano:Does that mean you're not? Yeah, I work on my quads, glutes, and hammies all the time. Does that mean you're not following one of our MAPS programs yet? I don't have any of your programs. Oh, wow. Okay. How many days a week are you working out? What's that?

1:19:33Adam Schafer:How many days a week are you working out in the gym? Right now, I'm three to four. I'll do two days of lower body and then one to two of upper body. Bro, MAPS anabolic. Yeah, we're going to send you MAPS anabolic. That's it. That's an easy solve right there.

1:19:46Sal Di Stefano:Okay, this is exciting, actually. Okay, because -

1:19:49Adam Schafer:When you add the 200 calories to MAPS anabolic, you're about to see some serious progress.

1:19:52Sal Di Stefano:Yes, and you go to conventional deadlifting, and you're going to see your weight go way up as far as your strength, and then that's going to pack this muscle on. So those extra 200 calories, ass and hamstrings. Phase one's going to be great for you. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. Just one more question if I can. When you're adding the 200 calories, how do you know where to add it? Should I add it to protein, carbs, or fat, or a little of each? Do you consistently hit your protein already? Always. Okay. So if you're good there, then you go ahead and divide it up how you like. Whatever you want.

1:20:27Sal Di Stefano:Carbs or fat. It's up to you. Yep. Okay.

1:20:30Adam Schafer:How many grams of fat are you eating a day? um right now i'm eating about 65 to 70 you're fine yeah fatter it's up to you yeah whatever you feel to your performance i would say exactly whatever makes you feel best some people like a little more fat i asked your fat intake because if it was too low i was gonna have you bump your fat oh yeah but if you're feeling if you feel better with more fat go for that if you're feeling

1:20:50Sal Di Stefano:better with more carbs go for that try try playing with both i love like i have a client like you that we had to bump 200 calories you know for one week i'm gonna do it all through like fats and then the next week I do it all through carbs and then I do a mix of half and half. And then I ask you, and then I ask you like, how does that, how do you like that mixing it up in your diet? How do you feel when we work and ask yourself those questions? Cause either way, fine. But really what I want to know, if I was your coach is like how you like it in the diet consistency, how you feel all those things stick with it.

1:21:19Sal Di Stefano:So play with each of them. Uh, I'd say give it a week of each, right? So do a week of like just adding fat and then do a week of just adding carbs and then do a week of a mix and then ask yourself what you like the most and then stick with that all right perfect thank you so much i really appreciate it i'm excited for you when you get on anabolic we bump those calories you're gonna see a huge difference gonna blow your mind yep yep i'm excited thank you so much i got it you know it's you know what i like i can't wait to see her

1:21:47Adam Schafer:results everyone away you know what's cool about what she said is she when the first time she did reverse diet when she would chronically eat what she say 1300 calories a day yeah lost 10 pounds the first month yeah that happens sometimes yeah that's why i wanted to make i know you made the

1:21:59Sal Di Stefano:point of like 20 because which is the right is the right because obviously some people are freaked out but it's like man some people can add 500 and just it's what they needed and their body responds right away if they can get past the psychological piece so obviously she had been through that situation so it was a great conversation for the audience to hear let me tell you uh and i've had some of my i'm glad this happened because i've actually had some of my family and friends before People know that deadlifting is so good for the hamstrings and the butt, and so they do it. But a lot of times they do Romanian all the time, which is a great movement.

1:22:29Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, nothing wrong with it. But you're limited on how - It's basically accessory compared to conventional.

1:22:34Adam Schafer:Yeah, but it's also the reps. You're doing 10, 12 reps.

1:22:36Sal Di Stefano:Well, yeah, 10, 12 reps is fatiguing on your grip. Yeah, you ain't holding on to very much weight. I mean, I'm not holding on to very much weight. Setting it down makes a big difference.

1:22:43Adam Schafer:When I was doing that many reps for that kind of an exercise, it was good morning. And what did she say?

1:22:47Sal Di Stefano:She was at 101? 105 pounds. So if you can do 10 reps holding on to the bar for 105 reps, she's going to push over 200 in a conventional deadlift. And her pushing over 200 in a conventional deadlift is going to pack on muscle like she's never seen before. So exciting. Our next caller is Daniel from Georgia. What's up, Daniel? What's going on, Daniel? Hey, guys. I appreciate y 'all taking your time. Y 'all have been very instrumental in my sobriety and mental health journey over the last 10 years. So it's cool to kind of be able to talk to you, but I'll get into kind of my question. I've been a firefighter paramedic and a flight medic for 23 years and been in the Army for 20 years.

1:23:37Performance wise, I'm 42. Performance wise, I still do pretty well, like on our ACFT test, stuff like that. About the last two years, I've been struggling with the typical hormone balance, blood work balance diet. For some odd reason, I put on about 40 pounds with no major changes. I don't do dairy, no sugar. I don't drink, obviously, like all the normal stuff. So I had some recent blood work done. My triglycerides were high, borderline A1C, HDL was low, and a couple other that were off. So it's kind of a two-part question, but what would you prioritize nutritionally and in training to improve metabolic health without furthering my gut issues and tanking energy so I can perform at the level that I'm expected?

1:24:45Adam Schafer:Okay, Dana, let's break this all down. So you wrote in some stuff in your question, if you don't mind me going through some of your email. okay so um you said you're recovering addict um you you're i see where your current body weight is you're following some of our programs so maps anabolic mass 15 performance which one of our programs are you following now um i just restarted uh maps anabolic uh last week and you're doing jujitsu two to three days a week yes sir okay and then you're currently on uh trt testosterone testosterone? Yes, sir. It'd take about a hundred a week. Okay. The rest of your blood, the rest of your hormones, how's your thyroid?

1:25:30Adam Schafer:Is your thyroid okay? Yeah. All the blood work was normal other than my lipid panel. Okay. And then you had mentioned gut health issues. Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah. I caught giardia in Yemen back in 2010. I was deployed and I've dealt with severe gut issues for 15 years now. So I can't eat any bread, dairy, anything with like vinegar. So my body just doesn't digest it real well. Have you been tested currently for parasites and SIBO? Yes, sir. It was all negative. I've done a few parasite cleanse in the past, but my only diagnosis was just diverticulitis with IBS and a couple other things.

1:26:32Adam Schafer:Okay. And then current diet, walk me through that right now. Do you track it? Can you give me some details? I eat anywhere from 22 to 2 ,800 calories a day. mainly chicken and ground turkey those are two like the proteins that that don't mess with me I try to stay away from pork and red meat obviously just because all the issues on average about 50 carbs a day and I don't I stay away from sugar and I try to balance I've been having issues trying to balance the proteins and fats. But it's hard with my gut issues to get to where I don't just feel like I'm, you know, dying over 2 ,200 a day. Okay.

1:27:27Adam Schafer:And then with the gut issues, have you worked with a functional medicine practitioner or are these your medical doctors? This is all through the VA, like Western medicine. I'm trying to kind of branch out more just because it's just the same dog and pony show with the GI world. Yeah, I would like you to work with a, what I would recommend is you work with a functional medicine practitioner to get the root of what's going on. It sounds very frustrating. And on paper, it looks like you're doing a lot of the right things. It sounds like there's an underlying root cause that hasn't been identified yet.

1:28:02Adam Schafer:I like functional medicine practitioners for that very reason. we can invite you into our functional medicine wellness forum. And I believe what's the name of that? MP Holistic Health. MP Holistic Health on Facebook. So I would have you get on there. And I also think you should reduce your training volume. Okay, I'm glad you said that. I was like, that's the other thing.

1:28:23Sal Di Stefano:With all this gut issues, and then if you're doing jiu-jitsu three times a week and all of anabolic, I mean, I would reduce anabolic down to one day a week or MAPS 15 is probably more appropriate.

1:28:33Adam Schafer:Yeah, for someone like you, I like MAPS 15, and then you can keep up your jujitsu. Otherwise, I would cut out the jujitsu and just stick to MAPS anabolic for a little while until we start to figure out what the root cause is. Some of the things you mentioned in your email was like swelling. You said swelling in the face, for example. That can be indicative of parasite. Sometimes they're hard to find. They can hide. Functional medicine practitioners have really good tests that can help identify that. It could also be autoimmune, which we'd also want to take a look at with that. And then your diet sounds fine, but the gut health stuff is either at the root or is one of the main symptoms of something else that we haven't identified yet.

1:29:17Adam Schafer:So that's where I would start is functional medicine. And what I want you to do is post that question in that forum and see what answer you get. And then if you end up working with Dr. Cabral's team, I know they're very comprehensive with trying to work with mysterious symptoms. Okay. Yeah, I did the genetic testing part of just trying to chase this kind of rabbit. But like I said, it's hard still being on active duty and trying to keep up physically, obviously, and I'm getting older. um so and uh so you you would just drop down to one day a week or the mass 15 or mass 15

1:30:02Sal Di Stefano:mass 15 is probably more appropriate i like massive dean even better where you're just doing two exercises a day so you're still getting your strength training um i'd also ask you to do your best on how you feel to try and modify your intensity so if you know it's like one of those days where your gut is just off and you're not feeling it that's also the the worst day to go in and kill it in the gym like that's where i'm like all right back off a little how do you feel when you fast um i better um i started doing intermittent fasting last week like i said i've just been kind of throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks um you know but i started in eating around uh 10 in the morning and then six cut off at six at night uh and felt a little different i I don't do caffeine or anything, like any stimulants.

1:30:54And obviously, you know, and I've got a newborn at home, so I feel pretty dead most days anyway. But how would y 'all, and kind of the second part, how would you balance the macros with, you know, energy and weight and, you know, lipid panels and things of that nature?

1:31:18Adam Schafer:Yeah, because you've got issues, we've got to figure that out. Because on paper, your diet sounds okay.

1:31:23Sal Di Stefano:With him being kind of lower carbohydrate like he is, would he be something like the ketone IQ supplements like that? Would that benefit him energy-wise?

1:31:34Adam Schafer:It may, but it also may hurt his gut. Yeah, we've got to figure out what's causing the gut issues right now. And you're going low carb because low carb probably feels better to your gut, right? It does, and I can't have any gluten. I know I always hear you talking about your issues with dairy. If I eat any dairy or gluten, I break out and weird, right? It's wild, and I was told through the VA that when I caught Giardia overseas that I may have brought back some other type parasite, and it just kind of wreaked havoc. So, I mean, I feel like I almost starved myself, but if you look at me, I mean, I've got the typical dad bod gut for some reason.

1:32:18I carry most of my weight up around my chest, my gut. Yeah. You know, so it's just super frustrating.

1:32:25Adam Schafer:You said you did a parasite cleanse. What did you do? I've done all the, you name it, we've done it. Everything from the clays, the charcoal. No. There's one cleanse I did last year. I forget the name of it. I took, you know, 10 different pills for a few weeks. And even now after like the genetic testing, I've got the MTHFR. Yeah, MTHFR. Okay, so here's the deal. Over-the-counter often, these parasite cleanses don't really kill the parasites. To kill a parasite, you need certain drugs that you take that would kill a parasite. Uh, so you can clays, charcoal, those are going to help with the symptoms, but parasites are, they're hardy and they'll stick around.

1:33:19Adam Schafer:I'm not a doctor, so I can't recommend, uh, medications to you, especially not on camera, but what I'm going to have Doug do is he's going to email you a website and then you saw it's on you. You can decide if you want to try, uh, one of the options. Uh, but this is what you did, right? Yeah. Uh, so I'm not going to say it here on the air. I'm not a doctor, so I can't recommend people do something like this, but to kill a parasite you need an anti-parasitic uh medication it's not going to happen with it's not like SIBO where i can do antimicrobial herbs parasite will stick around it's not gonna it's not gonna go anywhere the functional medicine practitioner will really help you target that

1:33:53Sal Di Stefano:that's right most effectively i remember when you did this though you felt so amazing are you kidding me i fixed my gut health yeah it's fine it makes a big difference so i'm gonna i'll doug

1:34:00Adam Schafer:will email you the website and it's you just look on it it's on you so we're not recommending it you You can do it if you want to or not. The other thing is go on that forum and see about talking with some of those functional medicine practices. But look, there's definitely something going on, and it has to do with your gut for sure. And if you don't solve that, all the other stuff isn't going to do anything. Yeah, yeah. All right, awesome. Well, I appreciate it. Thank you so much, guys.

1:34:24Sal Di Stefano:You got it, brother. Hey, no matter what you do, keep us posted. I'd like to hear how it goes, okay?

1:34:28Adam Schafer:Yeah, send us an email back. Good luck to you, man.

1:34:30Sal Di Stefano:All right.

1:34:31Adam Schafer:Take it easy, bro. All right, thank you. You got it.

1:34:36Sal Di Stefano:that's frustrating huh oh it sounds like a parasite yeah it sounds very much getting

1:34:41Adam Schafer:rashes and so that all the things he was so at least so all the things he was listing off those

1:34:45Sal Di Stefano:were i know for charcoal is just like symptom they're not gonna kill that's not gonna kill

1:34:48Adam Schafer:that's just an absorb shit that's not yeah you know you can do pumpkin seeds will help paralyze them but then they come back like there's there is natural anti uh parasitic substances like I mean well even if you get them I remember you telling me too they leave their eggs so it's like it comes back yeah yeah you kill a bunch of parasites you have to do a treatment again like 30 days because then the eggs hatch you got to get them all out but parasites evolved they're tough in fact sometimes you'll do tests like a stool sample test and it's like they hide and you don't even see but you still got a parasite and uh so no that's that's that was me And once I treated it with the medication, that was it.

1:35:29Adam Schafer:My gut health now is fine, which is crazy. Our next caller is Kelsey from Washington. Hi, Kelsey. Good morning. Hi. How are you doing? Thanks for having me on. You got it. It's still surreal. I love you guys. So you've helped me a lot. I'll ask my question and then I'll give probably too much background. Sorry. My husband says I'm long-winded. So the help and advice or the question I'd like to ask is how long you would recommend that it takes to reach muscle growth goals. So I know that body comp and muscle growth takes time. How long is a realistic time frame to compare to when you might be close to your genetic limit or what your body is able to reach?

1:36:15And any other tips or advice after I give my background? So I'm 37 years old. I work full time. I've got two kids, five and seven, and I've lost about 70 pounds naturally over the last four years. So the first two years I was doing Weight Watchers and I was eating 1200 calories and cycling six to seven times a week. So through listening to your show, I realized that I was accidentally a cardio bunny, which was helpful. I started listening to you guys about halfway through an online coach that I had hired for strength training, which was a great starter program. But after listening to you, I realized that what I was really doing was a hit program with dumbbells and not through strength training and not progressive overload.

1:37:00So I kind of hit my cap and started trying to figure out what to do. I looked at purchasing anabolic or muscle mommy, but I really wanted the one-on-one coaching. That's something I'd had kind of from Weight Watchers from day one and just needing that accountability. So I found a new online coach through Instagram that focuses on progressive overload strength training more of like a bodybuilding style and hired her last September. So for 11 months, I've been lifting four times a week, 60 to 75 minute sessions, two uppers, two lowers. Most weeks I do a fifth full body workout on Saturdays because I just like to move.

1:37:37And then I do three 20 minute cardio sessions a week. I grew my calories with her up to 2000 a day through December last year. And then I went into a cut and calorie deficit from January to April down to about 1550 calories. And in the middle of the cut in February that a DEXA scan, I was around 22 % body fat, which I lost about seven to eight pounds after that scan. And I've heard Sal mentioned kind of the 20%. You don't like to dip too far below screwing with hormones and other things. So I felt like kind of in a good range, Um, ended the cut in April. And in the last four months, I've been working my calories back up to a maintenance of 1925 right now.

1:38:19And I'm extremely consistent, disciplined. I've never missed a check-in. I think I've missed two workouts in the last year since I started. I eat 145 grams of protein every day, 80 to 90 % whole foods, real electrolytes, vitamin D, creatine, because I love how much you guys talk about that. I sleep great. I hit my water goals. I average about 12 ,000 steps a day, except for Sundays with church and rest. And through listening to you and people I follow, I feel 90 % confident I'm doing the right things. And I just need to be more patient. But I am really happy with like the progress I've made. It's been life changing, but I am competitive.

1:38:57I want to push my limits. So I'm just curious to hear from you all. I've listened to countless thousands of episodes over the last year and a half. And you've given me a lot of really good tips and tricks and changes along my journey. But just curious what advice you would have or how patient I should be.

1:39:14Sal Di Stefano:I'll tell you what limit you're reaching right now. So first of all, you've done an incredible job and where you're at right now, everything you've done and what you came from and where you're going. But at one point, you're only going to build so much muscle on 2000 calories. You got to keep going. Like if you want more, it's up in calories. I mean, I'm looking at your pictures right now. You look incredible. And for someone who's taking 12 ,000 steps a day, training five to six days a week, you're probably at the limit of how much muscle you're going to build on that body with that low of calories.

1:39:50Sal Di Stefano:So if you want to keep sculpting, keep building, it's going to be north of 2 ,000 calories. And my recommendation would be actually less training volume, like more of an MAPS anabolic program and bump the calories. And I think you're going to see that. You're going to blow your mind. Yeah. You'll go up. How tall are you?

1:40:08Adam Schafer:And what's your body weight? Five, eight. And I weigh 141, 142. Five, eight, 141. Working out as much as you do. 2000 calories is like, it's low. Yeah. 12 ,000 steps a day. Still low. Yeah. Yeah. And I know it's scary. It's scary to try to go up more, but if you want, you want to keep, you want to see some progress, bump your calories. Yep. You want to see more progress, bump your calories and do less. less workouts. Yep. Those are your two options. Yeah. You could just bump your calories and you'll see some progress. If you just went up to from 2000 to 2400 calories, you see some good strength gains doing nothing else.

1:40:40Adam Schafer:If you really want to see the gains, I would go three days a week, full body strength training, maps, anabolic style, go up to 2400 calories and you'll get some great muscle. Yes. You'll get some great muscle. How long do you guys recommend for that like ramp up to 2400? Cause I mentally, I know that it works and like hear you talk about it, but I, And like physically, it's still kind of hard to, I mean, back in September last year, when I started eating 1800 colors, I'm like, this is so much food. I feel disgusting. And I, it was, it was hard for me, but Adam shared a little bit about your journey of when you were doing like bars and protein shakes versus going to whole protein.

1:41:17And I made that switch in like February this year. And that made a big difference. So I've gotten off of a lot of like processed protein. I didn't even realize I was doing. And that's helped. So I think I'm willing to like bump it. I've been thinking I need to like bump it further, but like, do you, do you recommend like a hundred or 200 calories like in a month or like what kind of, I'll give you the ideal,

1:41:39Adam Schafer:but then it's going to be based on your comfort level. Ideally you'd go up 400 calories right now. There is no ramp up. 400 is your ramp up. Yeah. Just because of where you're at, how lean you are, your fitness level, how much your strength training, you go up 400 calories, your muscles are going to soak it up. but if you're scared you can go up 100 calories every other week and you can really stretch it out depends on how fast you want to see the progress and how fearful it's going to be for you so that's that's that's going to be on you now if i was your coach and i was working with you every week and i could be there for you when you get scared i would i would i would encourage you to go 400 but i'm not going to be there for you and if you know yourself you're like man if i go up 400 calories i am gonna freak out then you can go up 100 calories and then wait a week and then go up another 100, wait a week and get yourself up there.

1:42:25Sal Di Stefano:I want you to know the other side of this is way less training, way even happier with your physique. When you get to this place where I think 26 to 2 ,800 calories is where I'd want to get you eventually, you'll have to do half the work. You'll get so strong. Yeah, you'll be stronger. You'll have even more of the physique. And by the way, for the listeners that get an opportunity to see you, you're in a great place right now. Like if you just said, Adam, I want to be healthy. I'm like, well, do you like what you're doing? Do you like the calories? Like you can just keep doing what you're doing and you're going to maintain a very healthy, great physique.

1:43:00Sal Di Stefano:But if you come to me and you're like, I want more, I'm competitive. I want to keep pushing this. Like, oh, there's more. There's a lot more, but it's in Cal. You can't get it there in 2000 calories. Like you just have to, you're going to have to get up all my, all my female competitors. I don't think I had any female competitors that we weren't pushing over 2 ,800 to 3 ,000 calories competitors that get on stage ripped and lean. I have to get them up to 2 ,800, 3 ,000 calories. And then in a cut, they're down to 2 ,200, 2 ,400. That's pre-contest. That's cutting to get down on stage is where your bulk is right now.

1:43:31So that's how much, in order for you to get even more muscular, even more built,

1:43:35Sal Di Stefano:you're going to have to bump calories.

1:43:37Adam Schafer:I wouldn't be surprised if your body fat percentage went down with a 400 calorie bump because of the muscle gain. Okay. Yeah. So say I start eating 2 ,400 calories tomorrow. Yep. What would you say to have an end point of judging success? Would you say give it a year? No, no, no. Give it a couple months.

1:43:57Sal Di Stefano:Give it two months.

1:43:58Adam Schafer:Yeah, two months, three months.

1:43:59Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, two months of a 400-calorie. Follow the program, MAPS. If you stick to the program, I think by the second phase, you're going to be very happy.

1:44:08Adam Schafer:Do you have MAPS at a ball? Okay. I don't. I never pulled the trigger on it because I was too scared about doing something without a coach hand-holding me. No, no, no. We'll send it to you. So if you want to follow it, do the three-day-a-week version, and you're going to get strong. You're going to hit PRs.

1:44:23Sal Di Stefano:Here's the other thing, because I could tell you like to move, because you already made the comment of you do your training, and then you come back and do another full-day. I don't want you to do that. And if you've got to move, go for a walk, listen to more podcasts, or an audio book. I'm okay with moving, moving, walking, stretching, yoga, mobility, all good. But you don't need any more than three days of MAPS Anabolic to build the physique that you want to build. It's there in that. And more work is actually only making your thing harder because you already have a hard time eating enough calories.

1:44:53Sal Di Stefano:So if you already have a hard time eating enough calories and then you're doing all this extra moving, you're making my job that much harder to build that physique that you're trying to build. So trust the process. Stay at three days a week. Eat the 400 calories. I'm telling you, give it 30 to 60 days and you should already see a difference. All right. Sweet. Thank you. I appreciate you guys. I'd love to hear back too, Frank, because I think you're going to be... Let's have you back on. I think you'd be really excited.

1:45:16Adam Schafer:We'll have you back on in a few months and just see what happens. Yeah. Okay, sounds good. All right, Kelsey. Yeah, she just said her calories and her workouts. I'm like, just bumping. Yeah.

1:45:26Sal Di Stefano:Oh, yeah.

1:45:27Adam Schafer:Even if she didn't switch to MAPS anabolic, which is ideal, just bumping 400 calories, she's going to go to the gym in a day or two and be like, whoa, I'm so much stronger.

1:45:35Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, and that's the only extra advice is just try and get hella strong. Focus on that. We didn't, I didn't investigate enough, although she's got a coach now, So hopefully she's not, and she's listening to the show. But the other thing that I would be worried about, if she gravitates to that hit style and keep it moving, like she's also the kind of had to say, sit still.

1:45:53Adam Schafer:Rest three minutes.

1:45:54Sal Di Stefano:You've got to sit. You can't do anything. And so if she knows that about herself and she hears this, while you go through anabolic, long rest periods. Discipline with that, yeah. Long rest periods. Don't you dare touch that weight before two, two and a half minutes. You've got to give yourself that rest in between to really reap those benefits.

1:46:11Adam Schafer:Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

1:46:56The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pump.

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