2687: Zuby On The Current State of America

23:08And so you can't care about them all. You can't even know about them all. Unless you're going to spend your whole life just, you know, every single day, you're just looking at homicides. And so people naturally latch onto the things that emotionally hit them. A huge factor is, is there a photo or a video? The video itself, which now it's more like, like if something's on video, then it hits people emotionally in a different way. And then if there's some type of relatability to it, either it happened in your city or the victim was someone who looks like you or could be like your friend or your daughter or your, right?

23:49Like the more relatable it is, the more it impacts people. If we read a story and it says that, I don't know, a bomb went off in Baghdad and killed 80 people. That doesn't hit the same way as if a bomb went off in San Jose and killed 80 people. Not because those 80 people's lives are worth different amounts, but it's just, whoa, that's close to home. Do I know someone involved? Is everyone I know okay? All that type of thing. So that's just part of the human psyche.

24:17Adam Schafer:I think what you're pointing to is the human psyche. And when we say, when people speculate on the orchestration. Here's where I think it gets orchestrated. And I'd love to hear your opinion on this. Sure. I'm not talking about like puppet masters pulling the strings, making things happen. What seems very clear to me is what gets orchestrated is things happen and then either political parties or media will grab something and run with it and create a distorted perception of things. And if it's off somehow. For example, if you were to ask conservatives, if you were to ask conservatives, has crime gotten worse in America over the last 20 years or 15 years?

24:58Adam Schafer:They'd say yes, even though it's gone way down. Even though the crime stats show that's not true. In fact, I had this discussion with my cousins today, and they were debating an argument, like, find the stats. FBI stats. Here's stats from here. It shows crime. In fact, I listed the cities. I said, what cities do you think are the most dangerous in America per capita for homicides? Oh, it's got to be Chicago. It's got to be LA. Memphis, Tennessee is like number four. uh it's very you know so and i'm like probably memphisst louis yes like baltimore you're right yeah those are places and i'm like our perception is what's getting manipulated if you ask liberals has racism gotten worse over the last 20 years or 30 years oh absolutely not true yeah it's not true at all but our perception has uh you know sexism gotten worse oh yeah it definitely has no it hasn't it actually hasn't uh and this you can measure this in many many different ways one of the ways as you measure it, interracial marriages and relationships continues to grow.

25:53Adam Schafer:What's a great indicator of how race relations are in this country. So this is where I start to think or see, oh man, this is orchestrated. And so what it looked to me like is public perception or opinion is moving towards the left. They're going to hammer on that until they feel things start to move to the right. Now let's hammer in that direction. And that's what it seems like now is that they're now pushing in these other directions and things happen and sometimes extreme things happen that can kind of fit that narrative, but they're going to run with it. And then this is how we get manipulated every single time.

26:31Yeah, I think there are a lot of different things that are going on. And some of them are relatively new to the past 20 years or so. Obviously now we live in this world of social media and smartphones and people forget with smartphones, it also means that everyone is also walking around with cameras and video cameras at all the time. So the amount of crime that you see has increased.

26:52Adam Schafer:Yeah. Right. It doesn't mean the amount of crimes increased. Like a ridiculous amount.

26:56Sal Di Stefano:Yes, exactly. So now you're very likely to see photos. You're going to see videos. Gosh, man. Obviously, I know we were certainly going to talk about, you know, we saw Charlie Kirk. I saw. Horrible. We literally saw him get murdered. Horrible. Like I saw it. Like I didn't just hear about it. I saw it. This woman on the train, Irina, you met like we, you saw it. It wasn't, it wasn't just, you heard the story, which is bad enough. It's like, no, you, if you were there, even if you didn't want to see the video, you probably saw it. I didn't seek out the video. I'm just scrolling and whoa, what, like what just, you know, and that affects people's brains.

27:34If you think prior to the last, prior to like our generation and maybe, maybe the one above us, if you ever saw someone get killed or you saw a violent incident or you saw like something crazy it meant for all of our ancestors it meant they actually saw it it meant they were there think about this for thousands and thousands of years of human history how rare how think about

27:57Sal Di Stefano:how rare that is you could go your whole life and probably never see that most people would you were in danger yeah but now but like our brains haven't sort of you know magically evolved in the last 20 years so like when people the reason why people have this perception it's not media manipulation is part of it, both what they cover and what they don't and how they spin it. But it's also just like what people are seeing. And I don't think our brains are that well, are designed to sort of separate, oh, well, this is just something I'm seeing on a screen versus this is something I'm like really seeing.

28:28And it's, and it's global. It's like, you guys are probably seeing, you know, horrible stuff happening in the UK or bad stuff happening across Europe. Like, why are we seeing so much of it? And then you're not just seeing, you're getting all the commentary and this and that. So I can totally understand why people feel like cities in particular and their whole nation is, are getting more dangerous. I can understand why there are people who think that the police are just driving around, just murking black people, right? We all know that that's not, well, that's not what's happening. That's not what the data bears out, but you can go online and you can find hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of videos of real world incidents of these things happening.

29:09If you're someone who's worried about, you know, black on black crime or black on white crime or whatever, like whatever direction you can go online and you can find video after video after video. And by the way, once you've watched a few, the algorithm is going to be like, oh, okay, I'm going to give, I'm going to give you more of these. So I can see why people are, why people think that way. And sadly, normal doesn't go viral, right? Normal doesn't go viral. If it's in the news or if it's going viral on social media, by definition, it's an anomaly. Um, and in a country of 350 million people, a lot of stuff happens every single day, but you're not, you're not getting fed.

29:51Oh, like you're not getting fed anything positive.

29:53Adam Schafer:So, so all, all true, all true. Uh, we're not, designed or evolved to see this kind of stuff so often. No. What are the warnings? What are the downstream effects of this exposure that we need to be careful for since we are seeing this stuff? That's a fantastic question. I think the first one is just your own personal mental well-being and your emotional well-being because it's very easy to get blackpilled. It's very easy to just be in a state of constant anger. and outrage or sadness or frustration because you just keep seeing all this stuff. And like, you're meant to feel that, right? You're not meant to watch these videos and not feel anything.

30:36Like, of course you feel bad about it. But there's a level where it's not helpful. You know, there's a balance between being informed and just being inundated with like horrible stuff that's going on, whether it's in your country or abroad, all of this bad stuff that's happening to the point that you become very fearful and incapacitated, or you're just so distracted that you can't take care of yourself and your family. You can't go about your daily business because you're just feeling upset all the time. So I think that's one danger.

31:06Adam Schafer:Which has its own downstream effects. If you're scared or angry, think of all the ways that can impact your decisions and actions just throughout your day, even just with your family or with people around you. Yeah. Another danger I think is further polarization and division. For sure. balkanization because again people have that tribal mentality and depending on what the narrative is you could start to feel some type of animosity or even hatred towards not the people necessarily who are doing the bad thing but just like anyone who sort of looks like that or anyone who sort of shares that worldview or so on so okay you know this rip charlie kirk i want to say that man like freaking as we record this he got killed yesterday and that was that was awful horrible horrible truly horrible um i feel so bad for gosh his family man um and you know there right now there's that temptation to blame what happened on the left right right i don't even really know what the left mean like i don't know how many people that includes right but just like that i however someone interprets that it's probably millions and millions of people okay i don't know if that's like anyone who voted democrat i don't know if that's like people who We're more on like the extreme end or whatever it is.

32:24But like, as far as I know, one person killed him. I don't know. We don't know the backstory. We don't know all of this other stuff. Right. But there's this, there's this temptation to collectivize it all. Right. And to blame like, and then, you know, put it on all the politicians and all the media and anyone who supports them and so on. But that's the type of thing that probably perhaps, I don't know yet, I'm speculating, but that's perhaps the type of thinking that even led to what took place to begin with. You see what I mean? So like it just keeps getting amped up and amped up and amped up.

32:55And it's just, yeah, it's balkanization. And ultimately, look, this country is called the United States of America. The first word is united. And people are going to have their differences. This is one of the most diverse countries in the world. It's massive geographically. You've got 50 different states, thousands of different cities, people from all over, different belief systems. There is always going to be clashes. There are going to be differences. there are going to be disagreements, but at a bare minimum for the nation to hold together, people at least need to at least agree to be civil with each other.

33:28And I think that's part of why this assassination yesterday, like hit people so hard, even people who don't like, you know, they don't have like a personal connection, but it's just like, wait, like in the USA, people are not meant to get murdered for talking, for sharing opinions, for having debates. Like that's what we all, we all do this, right? Like discussion. So, and at not just in the U S but I know U S university campus, if you can't freely discuss and debate ideas on a U S university campus, like what hope is there for the rest of the world? That's very dark. Like this is someone who's going around a peaceful man.

34:06Who's going around doing things the right way, whether you like or dislike or agree, disagree with the politics that that doesn't even matter. You're engaging the right way. You're engaging using your voice. You're not using bullets. And then someone else is just like, I disagree with this person. so much that, or they've made me so angry. I have such little control of my emotions that I'm going to take someone's life over.

34:26Adam Schafer:Two tweets you did yesterday after this horrible event. One of them, a lot of people are angry and upset right now. And rightfully so, I feel it personally. I urge you to not become as callous and soulless as your enemies during the process. And then after that, taking some time off social media so I don't lose faith in humanity. Please be smart and hold on to your loved ones. There are some demons among us. God bless. Yeah. Explain those. Yeah. So the second one you said was the one I wrote last night, actually, because, you know, these things happen and you first, the first thing was like, like, I think about two, three minutes after, after, after Charlie, Charlie was, was shot.

35:05I, um, I saw something about it online. Like it was very real time for me. So I was like, wait, is this even true? Is this, you know? And then it turned out he was. And then very quickly I saw the video. I was like, Oh my, Oh my gosh. And then I had, you know, but then, you know, you, you're just seeing all of, you're seeing the, the positive, you're seeing the reactions of, you know, the, the worry and, you know, pray for him and pray for his family. And, you know, did he make it? Did he not? So on and so forth. But then you also see that you quickly, I started, you know, seeing the dark side of, you know, there are people celebrating it and there are people saying like, oh, he deserved this or like laughing about it or making jokes or whatever.

35:42And like, this isn't the first time I've seen this, I think with any sort of high profile incident of this sort, you know, whether you just like when there was the Trump assassination attempt, you know, you had people saying things like, Oh, you know, like, you know, like, like people lamenting the fact that, you know, he didn't, he didn't get killed and that type of thing. And that's just, it's just so dark. Like when someone is even thinking that way, like they're in a really, like a really, really dark place because we, again, we all have our differences. We have our opinions. We have our thoughts, our beliefs, but honestly, I'm, this is not a virtue signal, but like never in my life have I like heard of like an innocent person, not even die, like getting sick, getting hurt, dying.

36:26And like, I feel glee. I feel glee. And then I go publicly and I'm sharing my glee. And I'm like, that's demonic, man. Like that's so, so evil that, yeah, that that's true. That's truly genuinely evil. I don't know how people do that. And then they're still walking around believing that like you're the good guy when you're, when you're celebrating something like that.

36:46Adam Schafer:Um, you know, on that note, I'll comment. I wonder, because we'll see videos and picture and it's like, you see someone celebrating this, this poor father getting shot and immediately you're like, what is wrong with you? And then you see five more of them. And then it's very easy to go, Oh, those people all think this way. Yeah. That's why I logged off. It's gotta be, cause I don't, I don't personally know any, and we live, we're in California. I'm just, we're surrounded by liberals. I mean, I don't know anybody who I'd go up to and say, Hey, this, you know, Charlie Kirk, he got killed and they'd say, yay.

37:18Adam Schafer:You'd be like, Oh my God. You know, I didn't agree with him, but that's terrible. So I wonder if it even represents a sizable minority. Probably not. No, it doesn't. But it makes you feel like. Yeah. That's, and that's one of the things that can happen with social media. You can make 1 % of the population look like 20%. Yeah. You can make 20 % look like 70%. I always say, you know, the best and worst thing about social media is that everyone has a voice. Honestly, like it's kind of how I feel about democracy. Like, it's like, it's this double edged sword where it's like, great, we can hear from everyone and everyone can share their ideas and opinions, but all crap.

37:55But then you just realize like, there are types of people who in the real world, like I never encounter them. Or if I did, I certainly wouldn't have a conversation or a relationship with them. But then on online, they're free to just put out whatever, like the most heinous, the most callous, the most stupid, the most nasty thing. So you kind of discover this subset of the population where like, geez, like I don't even, I don't even come across people like this in my day-to-day life. And then it's all, you know, so that's the thing, you know, it's, as we, as we talk about it, it's kind of answering the question, right?

38:33because we all see you just said like you can see a few of those and you can start to think gosh like how many people how many people think this way how many people agree with this is this like a huge chunk of my fellow citizens that I'm walking around day to day and they harbor this darkness in their hearts and so it does exist like we're seeing that it does exist but fortunately thank God it's, it's rare in the same way that, you know, people who want to go out and kill other people or rob other people or rape other people. It's rare. It does exist and it's always existed and it exists in every country and it exists throughout history.

39:10Um, but it's, it's, it's a small minority and yeah, I don't know, man. I, um, I, I feel I, my, my fear with this, cause we've

39:20Adam Schafer:been, we've dealt with for a little while now, uh, a lot of the extreme left, uh, and feeling like they have a lot of control and power for a while. Pendulum swing in the other direction. Um, and I think a lot of people on the right are like, yay, here we are. And my warning to them is like the extreme right is either as dangerous or more dangerous. And here's why, um, reactions to events from the extreme right can be covered in patriotism and nationalism, which has a lot more potential danger. There's a lot of power behind that because you can pass very tyrannical policies and laws under the guise of safety, national safety.

40:05Adam Schafer:And this is what's good for us. And so my fear is the reactions to these things. These things are terrible when they happen, but it's the reactions that I, I mean, I'm old enough to remember September 11th, uh, watching it happen. Yep. And thankfully I had some mentors at the time that were pointing things out to me and they were like, Oh my gosh, this is terrible. We got to be very careful what they pass. Yeah. Uh, following. And we know what they passed afterwards, the Patriot act. Can you imagine what that would have been like in the social media age? Oh, good. Great. Yeah. Great question. that would have been way worse it would have been worse it would have been way worse yeah it would

40:44Sal Di Stefano:have been meanwhile we saw a lot of unity back then yeah like everybody kind of rallied together and got a bit more patriot like but yeah but that also led to passing some laws yeah this massive surveillance state that is war and equally people kill just not our people i think that's the problem

41:02Adam Schafer:i mean still terrible reaction yeah wait do you have any fears of the reaction uh of this first of all i want to say yeah rightful anger um and definite sorrow over what happened it's terrible um i don't know charlie um i'm sure you must have lots of mutual acquaintances though but uh he was a father yeah he was a human being and to my knowledge all he did was debate people yeah he did you know so um horrible horrible day um crazy that it was done so publicly as well. But the reaction to this is where I'm like, Oh, what's going to happen? And I think, look, this is, this is where people just need to be smart, you know, because when people, when people are angry or fearful, generally they, they make bad decisions, especially in groups.

41:49That is a truth. Like one of my general rules when traveling is someone who travels a lot internationally. One of my general rules is just stay away from large groups of angry people. Right. Like it doesn't matter what city or what country I'm in. If I'm seeing, I don't know what's going on, but I'm seeing like some people, I just steer clear because people, people stop thinking the hive mind, the group mind. It's a very, very dangerous thing. So, you know, I think, I don't know. I don't know at this stage. I do certainly have some fears. I have some fears and some concerns about what the sort of response or reaction could be.

42:34it's hard to say because, you know, people need to, this is where, again, this is, this is where like faith really, really comes in as well to me, because from a purely animalistic perspective, the norm is to seek some type of vengeance, right? Like that's where the animal brain goes to, even vengeance upon who, like it's not even known, right? Like, you know, pick, pick the sort of target. Um, and that's, that's just, that's just dangerous thinking. You know, like one thing I've felt with the USA, especially over the last decade is the temperature just needs to come down.

43:15Adam Schafer:Yeah. The temperature needs to come down the social, the cultural, the political discourse, the level of their division is one thing. And then when it becomes hatred, Hatred is what drove this person to kill, right? I'm sure there's media manipulation that's in there. Whatever view he had in his brain of who this person was to the point where I'm going to make an assassination attempt, that's driven by hatred. And this is where the media can be so dangerous. Right. When you're going around and the rhetoric is calling everyone, everyone you disagree with is a Nazi and a white supremacist and is the next coming of Hitler.

44:02And like, look, people have freedom of speech. They can say they can say what they want. But every right comes with it comes with a responsibility. okay so like we all have the freedom to say whatever we want to say like you know and you can't go to prison for it in this country but it doesn't mean you should it doesn't mean you shouldn't consider the impact of your words what a great point what a great point um i think about our show and we reached tens of millions of people if my ultimate goal was just to get as

44:34Adam Schafer:many people as possible listen to me without the responsibility of am i giving good advice oh that would be terrible yeah and it seems like well definitely it's got to be true media it's just about how many people we get to look at us it is there is no like wait a minute you guys we're influencing yes people's uh perceptions there's some responsibility there's none of that yeah and and and there has to be and then that's true of like you know quote unquote both sides yeah um it's you know and and this is something by the way that this this is so crazy that um um whoever this person is like they they killed charlie kirk because he was going about things the right way it's hard to think of a better example in this country of someone who is quite literally just willing to it's all about ideas he's engaging it's words it's all about i'm going to talk to people on my side on the other side anyone who wants to talk anyone wants to debate and so on non-violently it can get feisty it can get fiery but it's going to stay just words and that line was just crossed in the most egregious way possible.

45:45Look, I've said many times before, I think I first publicly said it on the first time I was on Rogan, literally almost six years ago to this day, 2019 September. I said to him, because we were talking about political polarization then, And I said, look, in any situation, whether it's between individuals, whether it's between groups, it's between nations, it's a marriage, it's friendship, it's diplomacy. There are only three ways to solve any conflict. Number one, words, discussion, debate, arguments, conversations. It's number one. Number two, separation. Separation, segregation, divorce, breakup.

46:30Three's violence. Those are the only, those are the only options on the table. If there's a conflict, if there's a disagreement, those are the only options on the table. So I'm a huge fan of number one, because if people can no longer talk and discuss and debate, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, how much they may dislike each other, whatever, if you can stay in that realm of number one, then you can avoid number two and number three, right? Sometimes maybe number two, it's like, okay, that's things are, there's no, there seems to be no pathway except, all right, we just need to go our separate ways and not engage and not really communicate with each other.

47:06And then the third one is just, it's literally physical, physical violence.

47:09Adam Schafer:You know, one of the challenges with this is Zuby is that, um, like if I ask you this question, I think I know what the answer is. Who's easier to manipulate in whatever direction you want, a calm person or an angry, scared person, very easy to manipulate.

47:24Sal Di Stefano:So I, This is why I'm going to be the optimistic person in this situation right now and say that because this happened so closely to the George Floyd incident and we watched what media did with us then, and now we're seeing it on the total opposite side. I'm hopeful that some people, I know there's always going to be idiots, but more people will be aware and awake of what's happening. I feel like, you know, if you're now seeing, this is the text message I had to send to my own friends and stuff like that. It's like, don't you see what they're doing to us right now the same way that they did to the other side?

48:01Sal Di Stefano:And because it's, if it was separated by a decade or two, it might be harder to connect them. But because it's so close, I feel like more people than ever will hopefully be aware of this before they would be kind of asleep. That's the optimistic side I hope for. And I do think you're right. I do think, you know, I haven't lost so much faith in humanity that I think like, oh my gosh, this is over. You know, people are, I'm sure there are people who are like civil war time or whatever. I'm like, I don't, I don't think I have enough faith in the good people of this country that it's not going to descend to that sort of level.

48:37level. Might there be like some individuals who do something stupid there, there might be, I hope, I hope there aren't. Um, I hope that people aren't like, you know, someone's not going to try to retaliate in the same sort of manner in the opposite direction. Um, but I look, I think moments like this are, it could be, it could be a good opportunity for, for unity in the way that you, you guys talked about nine 11. Um, and I think that, uh, rather polarized USA, at least for some time, really, really came together on that one. Um, so now is, you know, I w I w I was happy to see, um, social media posts from Gavin Newsom and Barack Obama.

49:27and I think even Kamala Harris, you know, sending condolences and, you know, denouncing, denouncing what happened. I was actually very happy to see that, you know, these are not people who are, again, it's not about political agreement. That's the thing. You know, people need to get away from this idea that just because people have different ideas or different opinions that like, they are not just, not just enemies, but enemies worthy of destruction. Yeah. That's so dangerous because then there's no, there's no limit to that. There's no limit and anyone's a target.

50:01Adam Schafer:Yeah. If you're evil, if I think you're evil, then why talk to you? Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. You're immediately justified in your own mind. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild because there's so many

50:14Adam Schafer:incentives to press the scared, angry button. Of course. So if you're a political party, you have, and you already saw this, right? Charlie Kirk gets shot. Horrible tragedy. It's so juicy for the right. And there's also, the left has tried to now pick up on the, we need to ban guns. It just becomes political fodder. And it's so enticing that I can use this. media will use this uh you can use this to sometimes sell products depending on what the situation is it's the incentive is there because scared angry people are really easy to manipulate i think the smartest thing that you did was take a break from social media 100 the self-awareness to be like okay i'm gonna take a break because i see now i'm no longer in this calm state of mind And I know enough about myself to know that when I'm not calm, the decisions I make are not great.

51:12Adam Schafer:That's why there's this great research on couples. Dr. John Gottman did this great research that duplicated it. Oftentimes, you can't even duplicate this kind of research, but his was duplicated. And one of the things they found is, and they experimented with couples, where they had them hooked up to heart rate monitors, blood pressure, gauge, whatever. They had them live in this house. These were couples that were struggling with things. And when they saw that the couple's heart rates were going up, they were having a little bit of an argument or whatever, they would create an excuse to separate them.

51:42Adam Schafer:Oh, wait, hold on, you guys. Hold on to that conversation. The equipment isn't reading stuff or whatever. Let's separate. And they did wait. And they would wait until the heart rates came down, everything came down. Then they let them come together. And the resolution rate went through the roof. Simply because they were calm. So that's the thing that I'm like. and what social media does very well, any moment I can look at it and get pissed off and just get reminded of what happened. It's part of why it's so important to just be rude. It's, it's very important to be exist more in the real world than you do online.

52:16Like it's, it's, it's easy for me to tell when people exist more online than they do in reality, because like there's this chasm, there's this gap in perception of just, of just everything. Cause almost everything is worse online than it is in real life. And I see how it affects people. Um, just literally two days ago, I was talking to someone who had planned a whole trip to Europe and then they canceled it based on stuff that they were seeing on social media. Um, you know, cause they kept seeing all the bad things happening here and they're like, gosh, it's, it's too dangerous to go there. And I was like, oh, like I kind of felt sad.

52:47I was like, no, go to Europe, man. Like you'll, you'll be fine. Right. I know, I know people in the UK who are afraid to step foot in the USA. I know people in the USA who were afraid to step foot in the UK. And I understand why, because you're just seeing the worst of everything that's happening in each place. And I'm like, no, like it's okay. When I tell people, hey, I'm going to California to record some podcasts, you know, what are the comments? You know, be careful. We're a bulletproof face. You know what I mean? I'm like, guys, like I'm going to be okay. You know, like it's really okay. Like I'm walking around, you know, I look up down at my phone and I'm like, it's chaos.

53:20It's destruction. It's anger. It's fighting. And then I look up, you know, I'm in the airport and everyone's like, are the blacks fighting the whites? Are the whites fighting the black? Are the Republicans at the throats of the, like, no, right? And I'm in LA and then San Francisco, you know what I mean? Like a kind of, a bit of a hotbed, right? And you're just like, no, like most Americans are just getting on and people are being nice to each other. And like, I'm just, I'm literally with my own eyes, just seeing everyone mingling and interacting and all of that. And it's just, and then you look down again and you're like, whoa, you know?

53:55So yeah, just people need to be cautious of that. And I know touch grass is like used too often. It's become a kind of cliche, but there's a lot of truth. There's a lot of this truth to that. The real world is better. And even people who are online, most people act better in the real world. I've met some of the most controversial people in the world who exist on the internet. And I always get asked like, what's this person like? What's that person like? And I'm like, everyone's nice in real life. Like, if you actually met, if you actually met him or her, like you'd probably have like a good conversation and, you know, you wouldn't, you know, they wouldn't want to fight you or anything like that.

54:36So, yeah, and look, it's a it's a constant temptation, especially if you're in the world of creation and media and all of that. Like, you know, we we can all fall. We can all be tempted by some of the same incentives. Right. It just like I'll tell you another one that happens all the time is like people just wanting to be first. right? So something happens and no one knows the facts yet. No one knows what's true, but like, rather than accurate, rather than people wanting to like, all right, let me just wait. Even if it's like, wait, like 30 minutes for more. It's like people immediately want, I want to be the first to speculate because then you get the likes and the algorithm is going to show your thing to everyone and so on.

55:12And you know, it happens all the time. I just, I think everyone just needs to get better at controlling their emotions.

55:20Sal Di Stefano:Is it too early to ask you this? Do you think about this with your kid and how you're going to raise them in this tech world and iPhone world? Yeah, I do. I thought about it before I even became a father. Especially as someone who's been, I've been on social media for 21 years. I made my Facebook account I think October 2004. That's when it started, dude. I was one of the first people on Facebook. Um, and I was on my space like around the same year. Uh, cause you know, I was, especially, and then with all my music stuff, like, you know, my space was like my big one to begin with and then it became Facebook.

55:59So as someone who's actually heavily immersed in it and it sees all the different sides of it, like, I think I'm even more cautious and discerning in that regard of what, what is appropriate and what's not. yeah um so yeah i've i've definitely thought about that a lot yeah are you in the camp i don't know

56:17Sal Di Stefano:if you've heard jonathan hate talk about it i'm like a huge fan of delay as long as you possibly can yeah yeah 100 um and again like i think i have some advantages like becoming a dad now because this experiment has been running for 20 years yeah so i can see patterns you can see the patterns you can see the data you can see what works what doesn't you can even just anecdotally i know a lot of, I know a lot of children. I see my nieces, I see my nephews, my little cousins and, you know, their friends and so on. And you can see the ones who are heavy on the screen time and the tablet time and so on and how they act and how they behave versus those who, you know, that's a very, very small part of their life.

57:01And so to me, the answer is clear. I'm sure it's easier said than done. I know my older siblings are going through some of that now with their teenagers.

57:10Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I think it's really difficult. I mean, what's a blessing is like you just said, is that you have all this experience that you can see. And so I think if you just don't open that can of worms, it's not as hard as you think it is. It's not hard. My son's six. We introduced a little bit of the iPad, like around four or five. And I quickly just said, you know what? No, he doesn't need any of this at all. And the first week of him being able to use it before to not using it was a little bit, daddy, can I use my? And so a week of no's, but hasn't looked back. Doesn't even really realize it's not there.

57:47Sal Di Stefano:If we watch cartoons, we watch it together as a family in the living room or whatever like that. And it hasn't been a thing at all. I think when you let them for a long time, that's where this gets really, really difficult. So you're in a great place of - Yeah. And I think people with very young kids now, we're just more conscientious of it. and I think it's also I think it's going to be easier by that stage because I think there will also be like a large cohort of people with the same thinking I can see how it's very difficult how if like your son or daughter is the only one in their class who does not like the pressure must be immense to get them a smartphone or to allow them access to whatever but actually if like a large chunk of the people around you and fellow parents aren't giving them these things then it's easier for everyone 100 %

58:36Adam Schafer:that's a very good speculation because I have two I have four kids but big age gap and with my older ones it was like new and so they had unfettered access because I thought it was like TV sure which it's not like TV but it wasn't that obvious to me and with my younger ones it's very different yeah very very different approach to how it is I agree with you I think it's probably you're probably going to have a lot of kids

58:58Sal Di Stefano:I see it already personally we my wife and I have tried to curate my son's friends based off the parents and how they their views around that. So his best friend, uh, their parents are this is why is, uh, the mom works at Netflix. And so she's, they were already very cautious too. It was like, Oh, this is so great. And so, you know, we've already had situations where we've gone on trips and stuff with them. And it's so cool to see, you know, another parents that are that aware of it. And it's just not a thing, you know, spin. And it's not, it's not a need. We know it's not a need cause we all grew up without it.

59:29Totally not. 99.9 % of humanity grew up without it. So it's not,

59:33Adam Schafer:it's not like food or water or something as somebody whose uh business is centered around this kind of media yeah and your commentary oftentimes uh is related to what's happening in the world and cultural commentary political commentary what keeps you centered and calm and facing in the right direction how do you keep yourself from getting to not getting polarized or not becoming one of those people. Faith, family, fitness, hobbies, taking a break every week. I take every Sunday off social media. I've done that for many years. Just turn it off. Yeah, yeah. Just don't use it. Don't post. Don't log in.

1:00:12Just a break every seven days, even if it's just one day. It makes a significant difference.

1:00:18Sal Di Stefano:Well, it feeds into the stat that Sal was just saying about even conflict with couples. That's what that is, is you're interrupting that. You know, if you're not seeing every day, just that interruption of one day kind of probably goes, oh, okay. Yeah. And then normally by come after 24 hours, like sometimes I'm hesitant to even go back. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes I'll extend it one more day. So yeah, those things. And then, like I said, existing in the real world and prioritizing, prioritizing the real world. there's a blur between online and real as we know, because, you know, like sometimes people say the internet's not real life, which is true, but it sort of is to some degree as well.

1:00:59But yeah, I base my decisions and my opinions and my thought more on reality and what I'm seeing. So if someone asked me, what are your thoughts on the USA or Americans or California or Californians or San Francisco or LA? My answer is not going to be based on stuff I see online. It's going to be based on my experiences and the thousands of people that I've met and spoken to and the actual interactions I've had. and that gives much greater priority than the things I see online. Cause I'll, I'll tell you what, if I'd never been to the USA before and I just judged the U S and the internet based off what I see on social media, I would be, I would be one of those people.

1:01:48Like I'm not stepping foot in that country. I would cause 90 % of the insane stuff I see on the internet is from this country. Yeah. Right. Whether it's the woke tick tocks or freaking trans kids, or it's like school shootings or it's like insane politics. Some of the stuff we're talking about right now, like that's the stuff you see. That's what people internationally right now are seeing. They're seeing this woman getting stabbed on the train. They're seeing people being shot. There's that's like, that's why they're afraid to come to America. Cause they're like, I don't want to be killed. Um, and, and yeah, and I'd say that reality is much closer to the truth than the negative filter that people are getting through their phones.

1:02:28And that that's true. I've never been to a country that was like, um, I want to say like every single country I've been to and every single, almost every city I've been to is like better in reality than it was online. You got to know what I mean, right? So, so people might have all these thoughts about this part of the world or that part. Oh gosh. Like whether it's, it's Mexico or it's Saudi Arabia or it's Columbia or it's China or whatever, you know, and there's like all this fear. And then like, I'm most cases if they actually like go and visit, they're like, Oh, Mexico's great.

1:03:06Sal Di Stefano:I've always like argued that logically. Like if it's so bad, why are millions of people staying there? Yeah. That's kind of how I've always made that vacation there. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like, if you really thought it was that bad, don't you think nobody would be there? I'm like, there's a lot of people that, you know, choose to live there. So probably it's not as bad. I also just think, you know, like live, live not by fear. Yeah. Right. So obviously take reasonable precautions and don't throw safety to, you know, don't, don't, don't, don't throw caution to the wind. Right. Yeah. Be street smart.

1:03:37Have your wits about you when you go to different places and interact with people, but you don't need to just like hide in one little corner of the globe your entire life because you're so, so, so afraid that if you step out there, you know, something will happen. You know, there's people who they won't get on a plane because, you know, they're afraid the plane's going to crash. Strangely, they'll drive a car, which is way more dangerous. But, you know, they don't want to go anywhere. They don't want to do anything. It's fear based. So I just generally encourage people like I feel like young men especially because like that's when you should be like, yeah, have some freaking adventures, man.

1:04:13But yeah, like there's the world is an interesting place. and I recognize that, you know, not everyone needs to travel to a hundred different countries, um, or go to so many places or do so many things, but like, it's good to see different places with your own eyes and mingle with people and experience different cultures. And I don't, I don't know anyone who's worse off. I know a lot of people who are better off for it. I don't know anyone who's, who's worse.

1:04:38Adam Schafer:I love that you're saying that. And I think the key with this is realizing that you don't always know better, that you can be manipulated or you can be fear-based. It's like when we give advice to people with diet and I say to them, hey, one of the best things you could do is not eat processed foods. Well, why is that? It's hard to stop eating them. So just know that, right? If you know that, then just stay away from them versus, you know, believe in the lie that no I'll know when to stop like it's not gonna like this just doesn't work that way so it's like why should you be off social media uh or why should you not get yourself into these news spins where okay you saw the thing now leave it alone why do I got to keep staying in there because you know that you the there's an illusion of control that you think you have over yourself and your decisions and your mental state uh and the reality is you don't have as much control as you think so just don't expose yourself for a little while give yourself a break watch what happens.

1:05:38Adam Schafer:It's actually one of the number one ways, uh, people reduce anxiety is to turn off. Just turn it off. It's the,

1:05:43Sal Di Stefano:it's the process food of communication, right? Yeah. It is. It's most of it. Most of it's junk. Doesn't mean there's not some good stuff in there, but most of it's not just what you eat. It's right. Yeah. Crazy. Listen to it's what you see with your eyes. Well,

1:05:54Adam Schafer:it'd be always a pleasure having you on the show, man. I really stopped by, really appreciate you stopping by my friend. And, uh, it was great being on your show earlier. So, and congratulations on being a dad. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate you guys, man. You got it. So happy to see you again. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic.

1:06:27Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love By leaving us a 5 star rating and review on iTunes And by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family We thank you for your support And until next time, this is Mind Pump