2698: Why Everyone Should Try Bulking (Even You!)

In short

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - Episode 2698 Summary

Episode Title

Why Everyone Should Try Bulking (Even You!)

Hosts

Sal Di Stefano
Adam Schafer
Justin Andrews

Episode Overview In this episode, the hosts answer listener questions sourced from Instagram while expounding on the benefits of bulking, misconceptions about muscle building, and current fitness trends. The episode encapsulates a range of topics, including nutrition, exercise techniques, and insights from their years of experience in the fitness industry.

---

Key Topics Discussed

Mind Pump Fit Tip: Everyone Needs to Try Bulking (2:20)
Concept of Bulking: The term "bulking" often carries a negative connotation. However, the hosts argue that consuming a calorie surplus can benefit everyone, regardless of their fitness goals.
Reverse Dieting: They discuss the importance of gradually increasing calorie intake to build muscle before attempting to cut calories for fat loss.

Health Benefits of Green Juice (24:20)
Nutritional Insight: Hosts discuss the effectiveness of green juice supplements and their impact on overall health and vitality.

Mind Pump Dead Hang Challenge (26:36)
Challenge Overview: An introduction of a challenge to assess grip strength and endurance through dead hangs.

Competitive Mindsets (30:05)
Discussion on Winning vs. Losing: The hosts explore their psychological responses to competition and performance in fitness.

Historical Figures in Strength Sports (34:48)
Abbye "Pudgy" Stockton: Highlighting the achievements of this female strongwoman from the 1940s.
Paul Anderson's Legendary Status (37:22): Discussion of his unparalleled strength feats and how they showcase genetic factors in athletic performance.

UFC White House Card Excitement (39:48)
UFC Event Discussion: Excitement around an upcoming UFC event hosted at the White House.

Cocaine Found in Shrimp (44:31)
Light-hearted discussion on a surprising study revealing traces of cocaine in freshwater shrimp in England.

Rock Recovery Center (46:06)
Support for Addiction: Highlighting the efforts of Rock Recovery Center and their approach to helping individuals struggling with addiction.

Exercise as a Conversation Starter (47:55)
Social Benefits of Fitness: How exercise can create opportunities for meaningful conversations.

Navigating Parenthood (50:01)
Discussions on Parenting: Sharing experiences and insights on the challenges of parenting teenagers.

Deep Tissue Massage Benefits (55:38)
Recovery and Performance: Discussion on the importance and benefits of deep tissue massage in recovery and overall performance.

---

Listener Questions

Q1

What should your training look like while on a cut? (58:41)

Recommendation: Lower volume, focus on maintenance of strength, and avoid excessive cardio.

Q2

Top 8 exercises for 6 weeks with limited time? (1:03:53)

Suggested Program: Squats, deadlifts, incline presses, rows, overhead presses, lateral sled drags, windmills, and perfect sit-ups structured over five days.

Q3

Is it okay to exercise daily as a 59-year-old woman? (1:05:18)

Advice: Vary intensity and volume; mobility-focused workouts are recommended.

Q4

How to combat high hematocrit and high hemoglobin on TRT? (1:06:52)

Solution: Regularly donate blood to manage red blood cell levels.

---

Key Takeaways

Bulking is Beneficial: Everyone, regardless of their fitness goal, should consider a phase of bulking to enhance muscle growth and metabolic function.
Training During a Cut: Focus on lower volume and maintaining strength rather than increasing intensity and volume.
Historical Insights: Recognizing the achievements of past athletes can inspire current fitness enthusiasts.
Community and Support: Utilizing resources like Rock Recovery Center can provide valuable assistance in navigating personal challenges.

---

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00Abbye Stockton:If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts, Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews.

0:13Adam Schafer:You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we answered listeners' questions. People went to Instagram at Mind Pump Media. They posted some questions. We picked four of them, but this was after the intro. Today's intro is 53 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about fat loss and muscle gain, nutrition, current events, and family life. It's a good time. By the way, again, if you want to post a question that we can pick, go to Instagram, at MindPumpMedia. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organifi, Organic Supplements for Health, Performance, Muscle Gain, and Fat Loss.

0:48Adam Schafer:Today, I talked about their green juice. It's one of our top-selling supplements. I take it daily. I notice a difference for sure when I take it. I just feel better vitality. Go check them out. Go to Organifi.com forward slash Mind Pump. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash Mind Pump. Use the code Mind Pump and get 20 % off. This episode is also brought to you by Rock Recovery. This is a rehab facility. If you or a friend or a family member or someone you know needs rehab, this is what you got to do. Go to RockRecoveryCenter.com forward slash Mind Pump. every so often they give away a scholarship, a$60 ,000 scholarship to somebody to go get treatment.

1:28Adam Schafer:But every single person does get some help when they go to that site. So rockrecoverycenter.com forward slash mind pump. We know them very well. They're good people and they're really good at what they do. Also, this month, MAPS GLP-1 is 50 % off. This is a program that has workout, nutrition guidance, lifestyle guidance tailored for people using a GLP-1 like Ozempic or Wegovi, Terzepatide, Semaglutide. If you're using one of those for weight loss, you want to minimize muscle loss or you want to build muscle. You don't want your metabolism to slow down. You want to maximize its effects. MAPS GLP-1 was literally designed for you and it's 50 % off.

2:12Adam Schafer:Go check it out. Go to maps glp1.com use the code glp50 for 50 off back to the show all right i'm gonna make a general statement everybody should try bulking you'll probably benefit from going to calorie surplus doesn't matter what your goal is you should probably try it out and if you haven't for a long time i'm talking to you let's go yeah i'm trying to remember this message uh when this when this switched for me, where it did not matter kind of what your goal was when you hired me,

2:48Sal Di Stefano:meaning even if your main goal would lose to lose 100 pounds, right? I began to shift all clients into a reverse diet, mild bulk, no matter what. It just, in all pursuits, athletic pursuits, strength pursuits, losing body fat pursuits, and obviously building muscle pursuits, it makes sense, especially if you've been off for a while or haven't trained ever or just getting started in a routine, to move in the direction of a small surplus first before doing whatever the goal. and that I know for somebody who's probably got a lot of weight to lose, that sounds ridiculous and crazy, but you'll be far more successful doing that than going straight to the cut, which is what I think a lot of people do.

3:41Adam Schafer:The term bulk already turns off anybody who doesn't want to get huge. It sounds bad. Bulk? You know another way, Sania, is eat adequate amount of calories to build muscle.

3:53Sal Di Stefano:Feed your muscle.

3:54Adam Schafer:Actually, we had to change the term to reverse diet for people because what a reverse diet is is essentially a bulk. We've used terms like mini bulking to make it more palatable for people to maybe adopt and accept. Building. The history of this, I mean, this goes way back. This goes back to muscle building, body building, where they go through periods of building and then trying to get leaner. And so they say, I'm bulking, I'm cutting. And again, the term turns off a lot of people, especially women, and especially anybody who wants to get leaner. If you want to get leaner at all, the last word - Not even on your radar.

4:30Adam Schafer:No, you don't want to hear, let's go on a bulk, right? But all a bulk is is a calorie surplus. Anytime you're doing a - It's just needed to build muscle. You have to. That's the thing. So all you're doing is you're eating more than you're burning with the goal, the intent of building muscle. Now, why would a bulk benefit someone who wants to lose weight? Don't you have to be in a calorie deficit? Well, yeah, you do have to be in a calorie deficit. But the reason why a bulk benefits a deficit is because it helps build the machinery that can cause the deficit to be easier or more easily accomplished.

5:06Adam Schafer:In other words, I'll use another term. And this one's thrown around all over the place. And I know some people don't like it. But essentially, what you're trying to do is speed up your metabolism. Okay? If you have a faster metabolic rate, if you have a body that burns more calories on its own, that makes being in a calorie deficit easier, a lot easier. I mean, if your body's only burning 1 ,000 calories a day, okay, in an extreme case, being in a calorie deficit would mean you'd have to eat less than 1 ,000 calories. If you have a metabolic rate that's burning 4 ,000 calories a day on the other end of the extreme, well, anything under 4 ,000 calories puts you in a deficit.

5:48Adam Schafer:Can you influence your metabolic rate? Yes, you can. And although it's very complex, the most direct way we can do this, the most straightforward way we could do this is through the process. And I say process because it's quite complicated. The metabolism is very complicated. It's not just having more muscle. There's a lot of things that happen through this process of getting stronger and building muscle that actually causes the metabolic rate to get hotter or faster. So everybody benefits from doing this. Now, how you do this makes a big difference because you have terms like dirty bulk. This is like, these are like, this is what I would do when I was a kid, right?

6:30Adam Schafer:I thought I was too skinny. So every time, you know, when I worked out, I just want to get bigger. I could care less about getting leaner. God forbid the scale goes down. I just want to gain. So for me, it was every calorie is great. Every extra calorie is great. And so if I found high calorie foods, it didn't matter what it was, junk food, candy.

6:49Justin Andrews:It's all fast food.

6:50Adam Schafer:It didn't even matter. Just eat as much as I could. Cram it in there. This is called a dirty bulk. And yes, you could eat in so much of a surplus that there's excessive calories above and beyond what is needed to build muscle, in which case then it gets stored as body fat. But that's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is eating in a calorie surplus with the intent of building strength and muscle, which benefits even those who want to lose weight or get leaner.

7:20Sal Di Stefano:I hate that you have to put so much emphasis on the process and that there's so much more going on there because of the information that people are putting out in the science and fitness community around, you know, the muscle only burns a couple more calories a day. And so it deters the people from adhering to this advice that I think is so valuable. It's like there's so much more going on when somebody builds five pounds of muscle on their body than just what it measures in a lab metabolically as far as like how many calories it burns in comparison to body fat. the behaviors that came along with that uh the strength throughout today the hormone changes the hormone changes the work now to maintain that muscle that you now do the added activity you probably are because you feel more energetic and better like so i to to make to try and argue that building muscle doesn't speed the metabolism up as much as you as we talk about is such a terrible argument to try and make and it it deters people that are in this position right now because If I came across a post like that, and I'm the 100-pound client, the client that's over 100 pounds, and I heard Sal telling me I should reverse diet or bulk first and build muscle because it's going to help my metabolism and make this whole process easier.

8:40Sal Di Stefano:And then I come across the science kid who's like, well, technically, even if you add a five-pound muscle, it's only going to burn 20 more calories a day. What are you even doing? So it's not as big of a deal as what we make it out to be. It's just a horrible message.

8:52Adam Schafer:It's wrong. It's also just wrong. Look, if I didn't have experience, by the way, every coach and trainer who knows what they're doing, who's been doing this for more than five years will tell you this. We've all done this. When I've worked with people and done this properly, everyday people, I'm not talking about genetically gifted athletes or building tons of muscle. I'm talking about Mrs. Johnson who gained six pounds of lean body mass with me or Mr. Smith who over a year gained 10 pounds of muscle. right? Routinely would get their metabolic rates to go up between 500, 800 calories routinely.

9:31Adam Schafer:Like that was expected. Okay. In some cases, much higher. In some cases, a thousand, 1200 calories, depending on how low they were when they were working with me, meaning we influenced their bodies through strength training and appropriate nutrient intake, which was in a surplus. that got their bodies to burn those extra calories on their own. Okay. So how much activity would you need to do? Because I routinely, like I said, routinely would get people's metabolisms five to 800 calories. It was expected. Okay. This is like what I did. If that didn't happen, there was something else going on, either hormonally or whatever, but it was pretty regular, pretty consistent.

10:15How much activity would you need to perform to burn five to 800 calories?

10:21Adam Schafer:Yeah. That's like two hours of cardio.

10:23Sal Di Stefano:Right.

10:23Adam Schafer:Hour and a half, two hours of cardio a day.

10:25Justin Andrews:Yeah.

10:25Adam Schafer:Which, by the way, if you did an hour and a half of cardio hard, and let's say you did burn 600 calories doing it, that's not going to last very long. Because your body adapts to that activity, that physical endurance-based activity, and it learns how to burn less calories doing it. It actually slows your metabolism down to make up the difference. It's different than when you speed up your metabolism. When you speed up your metabolism to burn 600 more calories a day, guess what you burn extra every day? 600 calories. Yeah. It's a remarkable, effective way at producing consistent, sustainable results.

10:57Adam Schafer:So who benefits from a bulk? Anybody that would benefit from having more strength, more muscle, a faster metabolism, and a better hormone profile. So if you're listening to this, and that's you, raise your hand, and I can pretty much guarantee every single person is raising their hand. Now, why are people afraid of a bulk? bulk uh they're afraid of bulking because it doesn't cause initially doesn't cause a scale to go down although it does sometimes i'll start there for a second sometimes the person's body is so desperate for those nutrients so desperate for appropriate strength training this this avatar typically is the over-trained individual who's under eight for years and chronically underfit yes and then we suddenly have them bump their calories 300 we drop their activity do a couple days of strength training and then they're surprised to see that they draw up three pounds on the scale but nonetheless everybody's afraid of it because but i want the scale to go down like adam you're telling me someone who wants to use 50 pounds that i got to go through a three month process and you're telling me the scale's not going to move yeah or even possibly or maybe go up a few pounds yeah screw you man i'm hiring somebody else work towards my i'm going to go on that liquid diet that says i'm gonna lose 15 pounds you know right out the gate not not to

12:12Sal Di Stefano:mentioned the psychological warfare that's going on too that if you're somebody who's overweight like that and you view yourself through that lens then any fluctuation of water retention weight gain anything is going to be interpreted as i'm getting fatter this is a terrible strategy bail and so that's also it's similar to the of what you and i went through as being the skinny kid but just the opposite it was just like you know i'm stuffing my face because if all of a sudden i look like the scale went down or i look like i wasn't filled out then oh my god i'm

12:42Adam Schafer:losing muscle in fact you know what that would do for us i know you're the same way it pushed me

12:46Sal Di Stefano:towards these uh high sodium bloat reducing foods totally the scale would go up yes 100 which is terrible so it's i mean i get so i understand i just i have the i had the reverse insecurity right my insecurity was i was too skinny and so i did things nutritionally that were backwards and wrong because of that because i looked through the lens like that i looked at myself as i'm always too skinny and it affected the way to people that are overweight do the opposite they are insecure about being overweight they view themselves as fat and so when you tell them to reverse diet even if it's working the way it's supposed to the lens at which they view themselves is my waist it's going bigger oh the way the scale went up or oh i look bloated or i'm holding one i mean everything is interpreted as i'm getting fatter i gotta go the other way yeah really really I mean, this is why we talk about hiring a coach so much because having a professional who understands this, even if you understand program, you understand nutrition, having another pair of eyes tell you to go, you're fine.

13:55Sal Di Stefano:you're doing great stay the course is so powerful when you are battling with these insecure deep rooted insecurities about how you view yourself because you will you'll mind fuck yourself because of the nutritional because of the sodium water retention on the daily basis how it fluctuates

14:13Adam Schafer:how did this look for you guys as you started figuring that this out as a coach because i can remember distinctly as an early coach as an early trainer and i started 1997 i was 18 years old a lot of energy and passion and, uh, but no experience, zero experience. All I had was experience training myself, maybe a couple of friends and I had some certifications and what I thought the approach was that the, the proper approach to weight loss was I get a client wants to lose weight. Uh, we're going to put them in a calorie deficit and I'm going to try and get them to burn a lot of calories. So it was like cardio circuit training and a calorie deficit right out, right off the gates.

14:52Adam Schafer:That was my approach. I remember the shift, the shift wasn't too long after I first became a trainer. Well, I say not too long. It was probably a few years, but I was a trainer for so long. Right. So it was like a couple of years, maybe two, three years where I start, I just, I didn't think of the, of it as a bulk. I just wanted my clients to get stronger. And I remember thinking like, I'm getting these people who are hiring me. I'm putting them in a deficit. I'm having to do all this cardiologist, whatever. And they're not getting stronger, uh, within strength training. I want them to get stronger.

15:25Adam Schafer:So what I started to do is I, and the reason why this is so important is strength is so beneficial for all physical pursuits. It makes you feel good. You get nice sculpt and shape to your body. Plus as a trainer, I could objectively show my client progress within the first few weeks. Like, look, you're stronger. And that's really important for motivation. So I was just about getting stronger in the beginning because I knew I could control the workouts. You're seeing me twice a week, the diet fine. We'll worry about that later. And so my initial approach was I'm going to help you get stronger. And then later we'll worry about the diet, not realizing what I was kind of doing was moving in the right direction.

16:02Adam Schafer:It wasn't probably until about seven years into my career that I said, no, no, no, no, no. We got to, we got to build, we got to build first. That's going to make fat loss so much easier later on.

16:12Justin Andrews:Yeah. I made the mistake early on of really overemphasizing like the calorie burn and also the calories in and just playing that whole math game uh which is totally like a failing strategy um and to see it kind of play out and i've and the worst part is like you get just like your clients like you feel this initial success because you're seeing the scale move in the right direction they're feeling good about their clothes and all this kind of stuff and then you get to a point where it's just like well where do we go from here and it got really frustrating because you know i didn't really have any answers once we got to that position where it was like we're way too low calories where you know you can't just cardio your way through any more of this and so and they start showing up they stop showing up and yeah they're frustrated i put all the work and i'm not there and so yeah reevaluating that and then realizing you know to to really build them up uh and get them in a better position from the beginning with strength training as the main focus and uh you know reinforcing and feeding that was so much better yeah yeah it probably took seven or eight

17:16Sal Di Stefano:years i think before this came full circle for me i needed to see enough clients because early on i just thought they were lying to me oh so it really i think what really switched for me was when i actually started to believe i had enough clients that were 100 pounds or more overweight sitting across from me that were telling me they were only eating 1300 to 1500 calories to the point where I went to houses, made them take pictures when they ate. I mean, I just, and, and it was, it's what they were doing. And I was just, this can't be their, their cupboards look good. She's telling me everything she's eating.

17:53Sal Di Stefano:This isn't adding up. And I, and then they were already so low that I knew that I can't go any lower than that. And so it just became a, almost like a health thing for me. It's like, you know what? The cutting thing is, and the moving thing is just impossible to go any further that direction so why don't we just try and build muscle yeah and get you stronger and healthier and then that result and then what started to happen which tripped me out which was we would start to add calories back off the gradient endurance cardio and then the scale would start to go down it was like huh what's this magic yeah that was like bizarre it just and i remember this is actually this is around the time when i think i first started finding content online that I believe Lane was putting out because he was talking about reverse dieting with his bikini competitors.

18:39Sal Di Stefano:And so I think I started finding stuff like that related to that type of content and to help me figure out what I was seeing because what I was seeing didn't make sense to me. I was told, you know, everybody was told a lot of thermodynamics. So it's calories in, calories out. This client's only eating this much. Get them moving more. Cut them less calories. Whenever you've done that to enough people, especially someone who's really overweight, who's not seeing any results anymore, and they're already down 1 ,300, 1 ,500 calories. It's like, this can't be good. And they're miserable.

19:10Adam Schafer:There's two points I want to make with this. One is you could follow, the Biggest Loser has been on air now for a long time, and you could see the documentation of how they lost the weight on the show, which typically involved lots and lots of crazy activity with severe caloric restriction, and where they're left at after the show. What they're left at is they're like, oh my God, if I eat anything over 1 ,500 calories and I do anything less than hours of activity a day, I start gaining weight. And so the majority of them end up gaining the weight back as a result. But the second point I want to make, which really hurts my heart to think that I, same thing as you, Adam, I thought they lied.

19:52Adam Schafer:I thought they were lying for years. They're not telling me the truth. And this is a message. And then I just punish them in their workout even more. Even more. Yeah, we got to go harder. Terrible. this is a message to trainers here's a message always believe your clients always always always believe your clients even if they're lying you're better off believing and believing them because you're going to build a better relationship with them well they'll tell you the truth later even if they're lying but always believe your clients you're going to be so much more effective because it took me years to start to always believe my clients i always thought i knew like oh you're not telling me the truth yeah but the truth is it doesn't matter believe them anyway because you'll get to a place later where they can tell you the truth.

Read the full transcript

20:31Adam Schafer:Well, they will tell you the truth and then you can start to really make some changes. But it makes me sad. Same exact thing, Adam. And I did the same exact thing. Track this, track that, send me pictures. And then I was like, what is going on here?

20:43Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, I mean, you see enough of it and then you're like, okay, that's enough proof for me. I had enough of these 100 pound overweight clients showing me what they were eating that it just no longer mathed anymore. and I said, okay, there's something going on outside of the law of thermodynamics.

20:59Adam Schafer:You know where you're seeing this? GLP-1 people who lose a lot of weight with the GLP-1.

21:04Justin Andrews:You see that quickly because of what's happening.

21:06Adam Schafer:And it's like, oh, I got another 40 pounds to lose. I'm only eating 1 ,200 calories. In fact, I can't eat more than 1 ,200 calories because this GLP-1 makes me so adverse to food. What do I do now? My doctor said, raise my dose. Like, no, no, no, no, no. Let's reverse diet. You build some of that machinery. Getting stronger and building muscle makes all the rest easier. I don't care what your goal is. I don't care. So this is why everybody should try this out. And especially if you never do this, if this is the scariest thing to you and you've never done it, you'll benefit the most from doing something like this.

21:38Sal Di Stefano:It's actually, it's so much easier. You feel better while you're doing it. I mean, cutting calories and just strictly cutting calories and moving more and white knuckling the temptation is just, and some people got it. Some people have got that discipline that they can just chew gum, you know, think about something else like for months and they get there and, you know, kudos to those people that can do that. But most people can't do that. And it's not, it's not worth, it's not worth it. So they end up going back the other way, this way where you were actually eating. And that's really how it started for me was just like, I want to stop restricting and just, let's just agree to eat from this, these list of foods.

22:16Sal Di Stefano:And I'd put together like a list of healthy. Yeah. And so I, and I started saying like, Hey, when you're hungry eat, but I want you to to eat from these foods just that's what we're gonna do so let's no more of this like restricting cutting calories eat just stay within these parameters if you're hungry go eat again i don't care show up make sure we lift weights let's get strong and it's like then all of a sudden you magic oh you started to see a turn and it and it turned hard and fast it wasn't like a i noticed a couple clients got somewhat results it was like profound what i was seeing and then paradigm shift Then it became a point where I'm like, oh, I'm not even, I'm actually, I rarely, cutting calories, like especially like extreme cuts and stuff like that, to me is like a short-term strategy in the bulk of someone's program.

23:01Sal Di Stefano:Like if it's like, I'm really going to cut you 500 ,000 calories, it's only for short burst to get us to drop a little bit like this. overall i think hovering more around a maintenance to a surplus if somebody is strength training making good food choices is a much better strategy long term to get anybody to lose any amount of

23:19Adam Schafer:in fact when people uh you know get more detailed when people stick to whole natural foods hit their target body weight and protein eat it first strength train try to get stronger listen to their appetite and kind of stay within those parameters their body naturally uh puts them in that kind of maintenance, slight cut, slight bulk. Sometimes they eat a little more. And what ends up happening is over time, over time, men tend to fall around 13 % to 16 % body fat, generally. Now, genetics will make that can go up or down from there. But generally speaking, it's where they fall eventually. And women tend to fall in the low 20s body fat percentage without doing anything else, without doing anything else.

24:01Adam Schafer:And look, when I got this right with clients, this is what people would say. I don't know how this is working. I feel like I'm barely doing anything. And I'm just getting leaner. And that's how you know. It's not like you're fighting your body's physiology. You're working with it. And that's how you know things are working. Huge, huge difference. Anyway, I got to tell you guys about, so I started, I added, I've been adding the green juice into my daily supplements. And every time I do it. Feel good. Yeah. I'm like, why did I stop? You know why? Because it's not like this crazy stimulant or something.

24:34Adam Schafer:And so you kind of take it for granted when you're using it yeah yeah but when i use it regularly i feel this is gonna be a silly term i just feel healthier yeah i just feel better when i mean obviously ashwagandha you've always touted

24:47Sal Di Stefano:like how it's the micronutrients too it is that yeah dude because it's more than just awesome

24:51Adam Schafer:there's these phytonutrients that are in there because of the way it's broken up they're they're more bioavailable it's got all these wonderful greens in there um and it's just uh i you know i could definitely feel a deficiency yeah it's almost like you're like sponge it up i'm lacking

25:07Sal Di Stefano:them yeah and it just feels do you think there's also a little bit of feedback like a quick feedback loop because you're you're drinking it like that you feel it pretty quick versus if you were to eat something and consume it or try and get all those vitamins and minerals through different foods throughout the day well there's you're gonna get it concentrated in one hit yeah but i don't

25:22Adam Schafer:think it's not the vitamins and minerals there's phytonutrients that have benefits uh health benefits that you only get from uh from plants yeah uh now the problem with consuming a lot of plants is their bioavailability um well-cooked vegetables uh you they're more bioavailable than like raw for example even though there was just like whole movement for raw vegetables which was hard to digest yeah uh but the the green juice is i mean it's everything's broken down into a powder so when you drink it you're it's all bioavailable highly concentrated yeah it's funny

25:57Justin Andrews:because I mean Courtney left for a few days over the weekend and like I'm you know I tend to just go out and pick up food for the boys and me just to like make it easier and you know I don't realize how much plants and things like from Farmer Thomas is like our CSA that we get how much she includes like every single meal and like you know even in our our meat dishes and things she's like incorporating a lot of these phytonutrients, you feel that huge drop-off. And so, yeah, I had to take some green juice to supplement because I'm like, I'm not eating my vegetables at all.

26:37Adam Schafer:So what do you guys think about the idea that our social media crew had for the dead hang contest? Stupid.

26:46Sal Di Stefano:Stupid.

26:46Justin Andrews:Yeah, not terrible. I'll take a big L for that one.

26:49Sal Di Stefano:I knew I was going to get crushed on that. So I think they must have saw the same clip that I saw.

26:55Adam Schafer:It was Peter Atiyah.

26:56Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, Peter Atiyah was talking to somebody, and he made this statement that I was like, bullshit. No way that a two-minute hang is something that the average 40-year-old should be able to do. I'm like, I do that a lot of times just kind of to warm up. I'll just hang there for a little bit.

27:11Justin Andrews:For like 150 pounds. Yeah, sure.

27:14Sal Di Stefano:And I know I'm not being competitive about it, but I try and hang up there for as long as I can. And when I do, it's like 30 seconds. Yeah, I just do the stretch. And I'm like, maybe a minute, two minutes? Hell no, I knew I couldn't do that. So, and I'm like, I mean, I know I'm not peak strong me, but I'm not weak. You know what I'm saying? I'm not like that. So I'm not a fan of that as a proxy for strength or health because I know that that's not. Now, I think that there's got to be a weight factor that plays a role in that too. Of course. That's going to be.

27:49Justin Andrews:Well, it's endurance, too. It's not like crushing grip strength. It's a completely different beast.

27:55Sal Di Stefano:It is, but you're right. So, yeah, I was not a fan. I knew I was going to get my ass kicked. Well, look, you get a guy like Habfor, who is a giant man,

28:02Adam Schafer:who's the world's strongest man in many, many regards. Yeah. He's not going to hang on a bar as long as a 15-year-old female gymnast.

28:10Sal Di Stefano:Yeah.

28:11Adam Schafer:Well, that's not even the same universe.

28:13Sal Di Stefano:No, no. She'll hang on one hand or two fingers for longer than anything.

28:16Adam Schafer:So, no, but, you know, hanging is a good exercise. The grip strength is a proxy for overall body strength, but there's a lot of ways to measure.

28:26Justin Andrews:I mean, so my kids could hang there for like five minutes. So it's not like impressive to me. I just want to make that clear. I'm salty about it. I took a big L, dude. Of course. Of course you are.

28:37Sal Di Stefano:Of course. Of course. I think it's stupid. But I knew it going into it. I was like, nah, bullshit. I already know this is bullshit.

28:43Justin Andrews:I don't even, yeah, dude. I mean, I'll do pull-ups, but like, I don't.

28:46Sal Di Stefano:And I want to make that clear that I don't think that – I think it's – I like to prime that way. I think I love to hang there to get your shoulders all kind of woken up, stretched a lot. Like, it feels good to do that. I'm pro doing that. For sure. But when he made that statement, I'm like – And, like, the next day I was in there. Two minutes. I just want to see him. I'm like, no way. I can't hold that for two minutes.

29:03Adam Schafer:Well, yeah, we did it. It was fun. Yeah. Doug beat all of us. Yes. Doug touched it. I was close. But I was – I mean, we got some trainers in here. I know. Female trainers. We got smoked by all our time. Yeah, dude. Alyssa, so I did. I barely missed two minutes. Doug did like two 18, I think it was. Two minutes and 18 seconds, something like that. Yeah. Alyssa, three minutes and 30 seconds. We were all like, what, dude? Yeah, dude. She's strong, though. I'm like, oh my God. She power lifts her. That's impressive, too, yeah. She does power lift. Yeah, yeah. But I think it's fun. I think Will, all the males did.

29:37Adam Schafer:Will was first. He was like three. He got the highest. Oh, he was the highest. Highest, yeah. Oh, so he was over her.

29:44Justin Andrews:Kyle I have a few challenges I want to push on them next That's all I'm saying

29:50Sal Di Stefano:You want to fucking Do that to me Bottoms up kettlebell press Sporatically just throw that one at me

29:56Justin Andrews:Make me look like a little pussy It's fine dude It's coming for you I mean you didn't come in last

30:01Sal Di Stefano:I came in last So at least you didn't come in last

30:04Adam Schafer:Yeah but come on Who in the room handles losing the worst That's Justin for sure I don't like it a lot. All of us don't do well.

30:14Sal Di Stefano:I was going to say, I don't do very good. You don't either.

30:16Adam Schafer:Justin gets mad, and if any time we bring this up for the next 10 years, he's going to get mad about it.

30:22Sal Di Stefano:I know. Yeah. We've actually regretted it. A long time ago, I don't remember everybody's answers. A long time ago, we talked about this. Do you hate losing more, or do you like winning more? So which one is more powerful of a motivator? I hate losing more. So you hate losing more. So I like to win more. So you're right. So he would be the worst loser in that situation. What about you?

30:42Adam Schafer:I'm not a highly competitive person. I don't think I'm competitive, but I'm not highly competitive. Yeah, you're lame.

30:50Sal Di Stefano:Do you hate losing more or do you like winning more?

30:52Abbye Stockton:That's a good question. It depends on the situation. Oh, really? Well, I mean, like the dead hang thing. You know, I thought I did great up until I didn't. When all the younger people.

31:05Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, but did you. Okay, so great example. Did you care because you went last. I did care about winning.

31:10Abbye Stockton:I cared about winning against you guys.

31:13Sal Di Stefano:Okay, yeah. So were you more motivated to beat us or just not be last?

31:15Abbye Stockton:However, I was kind of resigned when all these younger trainers got up there and kicked my ass. So I didn't really take that too hard. It's so funny how mad everybody gets.

31:25Sal Di Stefano:I know. I mean, I don't like losing, but it actually doesn't bother me. I like to win way more. I just like winning just gets me more excited.

31:33Adam Schafer:My favorite, like I get competitive with, like if I have a team, like our team then i get real competitive and want that like whole thing personally i'm not highly i guess i can get competitive some with some stuff but i don't get too bothered uh as to whether or not i win or lose necessarily i guess yeah i guess the two for me it's like the

31:57Justin Andrews:impromptu stuff where you don't train for it you know i wasn't ready i don't like that dude i mean

32:03Sal Di Stefano:the more you talk you just you solidify your point you just don't like to lose I don't like it.

32:08Adam Schafer:Years ago, I don't remember where, we were in Austin. There was a punching machine. And Justin and I went to hit it. And he's still mad. Bring this up again. See? He gets so. He's still mad. Well, I remember, because I know Justin's competitive. And to all credit, Justin went the highest in sports. You have to have that level of, like, that's a part of who you are. Sure, yeah, yeah. By the way, tons of integrity. So he's not, like, so competitive that he cheats. He's very, very honest. No, I don't cheat. No, very honest. So the incredible integrity. but I remember we did that and I saw Justin's night got ruined.

32:40Adam Schafer:He got really mad about it and I remember being like I thought it was fun you know, we're going to have some fun and he actually got really upset about it and I was like oh no, I shouldn't have done it

32:50Justin Andrews:I wish I wasn't like that. It's hard dude I can't shake it sometimes I mean I think it's just

32:56Sal Di Stefano:I think the worst thing is when you think

32:59Abbye Stockton:you should win and you don't Yeah

33:02Sal Di Stefano:That was the race car I know. I mean, that one, that one, you're probably, okay, so in that situation, that something like that really bothers me.

33:10Adam Schafer:Because you were like, oh, I'm going to win.

33:11Sal Di Stefano:Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's nothing worse than like being overly confident about something and then getting humbled like that. That's like more like, oh. Have you, so. That is the worst.

33:21Adam Schafer:I know you've told this story, Justin, when you went D1 and the first time you went up against like those guys. Oh, yeah. I had that experience in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. At one point, I was like pretty good. I thought it was awesome. I was like a good gym guy. I could hang with a lot of people. And these dudes visited from Brazil, and there was this black belt that came. And yeah, he was a higher rank than me. But at that point, I could hang with black belts in my local community. So I could hang with them, meaning they'd have to try hard to get me. This dude, I was a child. It was so humbling. He was so much better than me that he was telling me what he was going to do, and he was having fun with it.

34:01Adam Schafer:And I got to the point where I just started laughing because I was like, this is this is silly yeah he can take my lunch money and he could he could just violate me there's

34:11Justin Andrews:nothing i can do about it yeah i know it's crazy it's frustrating yeah like i had many moments like that playing football especially where it was just like i would literally put 100 effort into a play like as hard as i could possibly hit somebody and then just get flattened because this guy you know yeah he was heavier but like i've been able to hold my own to the point where it's like they have genetically they're just faster and bigger and have all these factors and you just are like oh okay i guess levels to this i guess i'm just gonna do stuff speaking of levels i so i've brought

34:50Adam Schafer:her up before on the show doug i just sent a picture to the group if you could show the fellas this woman, Abby Stockton, was a female who lifted weights in the 1940s. Okay. Look at her physique. This is the 1940s. By the way, that is 135 pounds. Are you sure? Yes. It is? 135 pounds. She was under a hundred pounds. She was a tiny woman and she - Great physique. And she, I'll send another one doug she was part she would hang out with those like kind of golden era not golden it's even before bronze era ish maybe silver era bodybuilders and she would lift weights with them and work out and look at this next photo i just sent you doug old time strength actually and she i i she needs to be more popular for current women who are trying to build physiques because this was the 1940s when if you were anywhere but the kitchen you would get chastised and here she was lifting weights having a great physique and 135 pound one arm overhead press look at her

35:57Justin Andrews:physique here wow great right yeah incredible isn't that amazing 40s right here this 1940s

36:03Sal Di Stefano:you're smoking isn't that great yeah totally and think about all that all of the did she compete

36:08Adam Schafer:was there was she doing competitions and stuff no because they didn't exist for women wow so she would try she would just do these never even heard how'd you know of her she's famous she's crazy is that was your grandma yeah oh how awesome would that be yeah grandma how would you how did you even find her so when you read up on um like old-time athletes the 1940s was when bodybuilding started to really develop yeah if you look up like women at that era she's the only one that really comes up uh and they called her nickname was pudgy which is funny because she's lean yeah uh she was tiny and just incredibly strong and built.

36:45Justin Andrews:Why does it say cheese bummer? What is that? Oh, that's just from notes. I think.

36:49Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I was so confused by why, why that was next to her name.

36:54Adam Schafer:Anyway, how awesome is that? It's super awesome. Isn't that great? I would love to popularize her for, for women today. Cause by the way, this is before steroids. This is before supplements. She had a full time, you know, she, she, I don't know if she was a mom, but I think she was, I think she had to take care of. And here she was working out a few days a week, developing this incredible physique, and she was strong as heck.

37:15Justin Andrews:I wish I remembered the page, but they have a lot of these historical lifters that they promote on there all the time.

37:22Adam Schafer:Another guy I want to talk about is Paul Anderson. You guys know who he is, right? Paul Anderson, one of the greatest strength athletes. Doug can look him up. You want to type him up, Paul Anderson. One of the greatest weightlifting legends of all time. He was 5 '9". He was so strong in those days that people just had no idea how this guy even was human. The guy with the wheels, the big, huge. The Russians called him the wonder of nature because he squatted with these freaking wagon wheels. So trip off this. That's him? That's Paul Anderson.

37:58Sal Di Stefano:That's a famous picture.

37:59Adam Schafer:He would do squats in his farmhouse while drinking whole milk. Look at his legs. So strong. So trip off this. Doug, see when he competed. What years were those that he was competing? Does it say, was it the 1940s, 50s? Olympic Games, 56. Okay, mid-50s. Okay. So trip off this. The world record clean and jerk in 1960 was Olympic gold medalist Yuri Vlasov, who did 436 pounds. So this is a clean and jerk. And by the way, their technique back then was not as good as it is today. Paul cleaned and pressed. He didn't jerk. He pressed 440. Wow. He squatted. By the way, this was before they wore belts and wraps.

38:43Adam Schafer:Yeah, yeah. 900 pounds. Wow. He had a bench press of 615 and an 800-pound deadlift. Wow. Isn't that incredible? Monster. It's so wild that these back -

38:53Sal Di Stefano:Well, it also highlights, too, because this is all before all these crazy steroids and things you're taking, that how much the percentage of you see these crazy feats of strength is genetics. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we just saw like a world record again, or I think just got broken again right on deadlifting for like 1 ,100 pounds. But I mean, that's, you're talking about 50, 70 years later. It's not like even with all the science, Oh, and they're wearing wrist wraps and everything. Yeah, all the gear, all the drugs possible. And, you know, he's not that far behind. I mean, that's - Yeah. Highlights how much the genetic factor plays for future world.

39:26Adam Schafer:You know what I think about when I read about stuff like this is like throughout, you know, like the ancient world, how many genetic anomaly, We don't even know about. It was like a soldier. It didn't formally compete or anything like that. No, it was just a dude that just fought in five different wars and killed 150. You know what I mean? Nobody could touch him. Whatever. It's just crazy. I love reading about that kind of stuff.

39:49Sal Di Stefano:You know, especially like feats of strength and fighting and all those things. I am looking forward to this UFC fight on the White House long. I cannot believe that is going down. That is crazy. It's such poor taste.

40:03Justin Andrews:It is kind of weird. Why do you think it's poor taste?

40:05Sal Di Stefano:Yes, it is, bro. It's kind of brilliant, actually.

40:07Adam Schafer:Yeah, I know what he's doing.

40:09Justin Andrews:I mean, the card is so stacked. Oh, it's so stacked. Oh, man. It's incredible.

40:13Adam Schafer:This harks back to the Coliseum. Totally. Distract people with fights, you know, bread and circuses. Yes.

40:21Justin Andrews:What are you doing? It feels like that. Was it Commodus in the Gladiator? It almost feels like, entertain me.

40:29Sal Di Stefano:I actually don't interpret it that way. I actually interpret it as Trump has really figured out his core demographic, and it fits UFC crowd perfectly. You're right. And so it's just I'm going to lean into that. You're right. There's so many more things going on with social media. It's smart politics. Today's Coliseum, in my opinion, is not sports and fighting anymore. It's social media. Yeah. So today's Coliseum, or the way government used Coliseum back in the days, is social media. It's propaganda. So when I see this fight on the lawn, I don't see that. I see this is my core audience. There's probably no other sport that has my core audience more than that.

41:08Sal Di Stefano:I'm going to lean all in on it. No, no, 100%. I agree with you 100%.

41:11Adam Schafer:It's smart politics. It's poor taste. Yeah. It's like, oh, in front of the White House, we're going to do this and have a UFC event. I don't know. It's just.

41:21Sal Di Stefano:I mean, come on. It turns me off. I'm not. I mean, I'm for sure probably the least political of us. I don't even. It's not that big. It's smart. It's cool. it's smart politics yeah it's smart it's i don't know of all the distasteful thing that politicians do it's it doesn't wouldn't even scratch that's another good point top temperament another good so you're right they do a lot all right all right you got me right i mean this is a good fight dog

41:44Adam Schafer:you're right in the context it's a it's you're right it's fair there's rules you're right you know it's like in the context of what politicians do oh yeah it's a lot greasier shittier things

41:53Sal Di Stefano:that they could do. And yeah, it's clever. It's smart what he's doing. I'm just like what Justin said. I'm like, I'm pumped about the card. I haven't seen a card. It's even better than that. What was the, what was it? John Jones made it back. So he's allowed to fight now. Yeah, the lineup.

42:08Adam Schafer:Is he going to fight? Yeah.

42:09Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. Pull up the lineup for a White House UFC card. Look at this lineup. Do you guys know Conor McGregor? Isn't he running for president? Yeah. Ireland. He's going to fight too. He's on the card also. Yeah. He's on the card. No, the card is insane.

42:21Justin Andrews:That'd be cool. like i mean i don't know what kind of chances he has if he's super popular president yeah he is

42:27Sal Di Stefano:popular but oh i would think he has a hell of a chance don't you i would i hope so i i mean

42:33Justin Andrews:i don't really know his i don't know i don't know his political stance bro we're moving towards idiocracy so fast oh 100 i mean this is all sponsored by brando everybody watch that movie

42:43Sal Di Stefano:i mean it'll be it's so crazy how accurate politics are this close to wwe dude i mean it's like this close to the same type of show, you know?

42:52Adam Schafer:You know, I used to, you know who really - You couldn't Google the White House card? That's it.

42:57Abbye Stockton:Well, that's -

42:58Justin Andrews:Now all we got to do is get like, you know, governors to fight in there as just like one of the - Rumored matchups. These are rumored.

43:05Abbye Stockton:Okay. John Jones, Tom Aspinall.

43:07Sal Di Stefano:Yeah. That's the guy who everyone's saying that he's been ducking because Tom's been crushing everybody. That's like the only person they think that could be John Jones.

43:15Justin Andrews:can we talk to dana wire about getting like desantis and and newsom to duke it out now that

43:22Adam Schafer:would be that would be fun i i would love to say that now you're talking justin i'm going i'm i'm for sure going you know you know who ruined uh combat sports for me it's when i trained who i trained a bunch of doctors surgeons and i had this one buddy of mine mike uh and he's phenomenal very intelligent guy we'd have all these great conversations and he explained to me brain trauma so well. And what happens when you get in the head? What happens to the brain? What happens later? And he just, we had these great conversations about it over weeks because I kept asking him questions. And then it ruined it for me.

43:58Adam Schafer:Now when I watch fights, I see someone get hit. I just think of all this stuff. I mean, isn't football

44:03Sal Di Stefano:and boxing way worse? Oh, yeah. So, I mean, there's a volume.

44:07Adam Schafer:You know what they're showing too? Also has impacts on future cognitive performance. What? Soccer. Oh, yeah. Heading the ball. Yeah, headbutting the ball is like super bad. Sucker. The ball sports. I know. I mean, I also get the whole like, what are you going to do with sports? Yeah. I'm over it.

44:25Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I've always thought that's why you get paid so much. You do something that's elite, dangerous.

44:31Adam Schafer:Dude, speaking of Jon Jones.

44:32Justin Andrews:It's over sensationalized.

44:33Adam Schafer:You guys just reminded me of this crazy post I saw. Let's see if I saved it because Jon Jones made me think of this. Did you guys know? You ready for this? Let's hear it. Researchers from King's College of London and the University of Suffolk uncovered a starting discovery in England's waterways. You ready for this? Every freshwater shrimp tested was found to contain trace amounts of cocaine. Oh, say that again? What? Okay. So researchers studying shrimp, freshwater shrimp, in England's waterways. Okay. Okay. They studied them all. every single one was found to have trace amounts of cocaine in them is this like a major problem

45:18Justin Andrews:i didn't hear about like cocaine being a big deal out there i i don't know i mean are people

45:23Sal Di Stefano:are they jumping it i was gonna say is that like a normal pathway where you would transfer i don't know what what why shrimp of all shrimp are bottom feeders dude yeah they eat all the

45:35Adam Schafer:garbage same thing with clams and mussels i thought you're gonna say like every one of them

45:39Sal Di Stefano:had traces of cocaine?

45:40Adam Schafer:Every one of them had traces of cocaine.

45:42Sal Di Stefano:Wow. You would think that would be like a market for like the shrimp over there would be like really expensive? It's like an extra$5 a pound, you know what I'm saying, for that shrimp? Get some popcorn shrimp. Why is that so expensive?

45:53Adam Schafer:Grilled shrimp. A couple grams of cocaine. Cheerio bobs. Eat the shrimp. See how you feel afterwards. I know, I thought that was funny. That is hilarious. We brought John Jones so I thought of the cocaine.

46:00Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I was like, how did, great segue right there. Sorry. Cocaine shrimp. Sorry, John Jones. Anyway. Speaking of drugs. Oh, you're going to move to real rock right now. Yes, dude. Isn't that great? Oh, it's terrible. This is all perfect. Terrible transition. Hey, I got it. I got it, dude.

46:14Adam Schafer:Might as well. You guys, dude, Ben and Tom, the guys that run Rock Recovery, they're such good men. They're such, do you know how much they work with people when they don't even sign up for their, like they'll get these people that will go in.

46:29Justin Andrews:Above and beyond.

46:29Adam Schafer:Oh, they'll just, I talked to Tom and he'll talk to, he'll say, hey, this person found us through your show. I've been working with them for the last five weeks and we're having all these conversations like oh really are they are they getting you know rehab he's like no they just inquired and so i'm just helping them out i'm like you're doing all that work i mean and they're texting them yeah back and forth yeah

46:51Justin Andrews:like you know i have a real heart for it i mean they're they're in it to really help people like

46:57Adam Schafer:if you're looking if you need rehab or a friend or family member like you want them to go to a place that is not just you know trying to generate revenue because there's a lot of those places they and they they know how to gain the system yeah these guys care like genuinely care they're such good guys i keep and i talk to them about these and sometimes i'll send a video because they'll say hey this person found us through the show huge fan would you mind sending an encouraging video and then that's when i'll find out like you've been talking to this person for weeks yeah they're not even paying you he's like yeah man i'm trying to you know help them out

47:29Sal Di Stefano:didn't uh ben just formally give his heart over to the lord isn't that what i heard he did he's a

47:32Adam Schafer:new Christian. Yeah. Yeah. That just happened, right? It just happened. Yeah. I had a really cool talk with him and discussion after he was on our show and he, uh, you know, shared some personal stuff. And so we talked a little bit about it and, uh, he's been, uh, he worked with Chad a few times. Oh, he did. He did. I, I hooked him up with Chad for, for a few sessions. And then he just told me he's, he's now a Christian.

47:55Sal Di Stefano:Did your, did your episode with Chad go live yet? No. What do you have coming up right now? What's on the, what's on the series?

48:00Adam Schafer:I don't know what's up next we're gonna have to ask dylan that which one he's uh he's gonna drop next oh the one where i work out with dennis oh okay yeah so that's that's going next that should go up next okay but i have the one with chad was really good he's so he's so knowledgeable what did you guys do record a zoom is that what you guys did i did a zoom with chad yeah with dennis we had a conversation at his jiu-jitsu school and then we also did a workout together i took him through a bodybuilder workout you know you know the whole deal is like uh you know what i'm realizing it's just so stupid you guys you guys are gonna like you guys gonna be like duh you guys know this as trainers uh when you're working out with someone um the best you have the best conversations exercise tends to open up yeah uh you know passive communication yeah it opens up vulnerability

48:49Sal Di Stefano:subconsciously we all want to break that's why and so you like we come up with a conversation right i don't want to go i don't want to grab that bargain quickly tell you about my life

48:57Adam Schafer:no but it does right it's like you have the best remember clients that used to do that i used to

49:02Sal Di Stefano:have some clients so i remember like the first time you started catching on yeah i started to figure that out that like i had clients that would like you know they they i mean because we talk about there's a bit of a an art form to that as a trainer like you know you know how can you connect with your clients educate them give them proper rest but then also give them the proper amount of volume and intensity in a workout i really believe there's a bit of an art to that of the right balance of conversation that doesn't impede on a good workout. And so when you find clients that hack that and they start asking questions like right before their set is supposed to go again, and they ask good questions and so then you don't catch it until you start to notice there's a pattern here.

49:44Sal Di Stefano:Like, oh, every time we're about to go to that next set. Good trainers pick up on this.

49:48Adam Schafer:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had clients sometimes that would fake, like they grimace or they'd fake exertion because they'd want to stop the set. Yeah. And you start to pick up on it. You're like, yeah,

49:57Sal Di Stefano:no, no, no, you got two more of those. You got two more of those. I can tell the way, I can tell by the way

50:01Adam Schafer:where the bar's moving. I got to tell you guys about the conversation. I'm having the best conversations with my 15 year old because she's getting into lifting. You guys are gonna crack up. Listen to this. She goes, this is the text they get from her at night, right? Because she's, she was with her mom and she went to the gym. Hey, if I run a mile after working out, will that ruin my workout? This was her text. I'm like, what an interesting question. Will that ruin my workout? So I'm like, it'll reduce the muscle building signal, but it will improve endurance. So less muscle, more endurance. So she's like, well, what if I just walk it?

50:30Adam Schafer:I don't understand this, Papa. How come some girls who play soccer are both muscular and conditioned? Why are you saying I can't be both when so many people are? So I'm like, look, walking is best for muscle. Athletes build muscle, but those same soccer players would have more muscle if they just strength train. But if you want to have stamina, then yes, run after. Sprinting is good. and so she's like this is her reply but i'll lose muscle i'm like you know i'm just in my heart

50:54Sal Di Stefano:she's so fucking stopped building which is so great so like it's about it's crazy like it's almost like a switch just happened like not even a year ago dude right yeah overnight she went from like not interested to just not just kind of interested like full-on she's becoming a meathead

51:09Adam Schafer:i'm like well look if you want to play sports you got to be in condition too you can't just build you know she's like but i want to build this is so hilarious oh wow so fun that's so i'm having a blast with it that's cool it's gonna be i predict it'll be a few years before her and i get some workouts uh together still too soon but oh so are you avoiding that right now intentionally huh yeah dude i don't want it to be me making it happen pushing it well yeah but what is he gonna go

51:33Sal Di Stefano:through what if she asks you though oh then i'll do it oh okay yeah oh so you're saying i'm not gonna you're not she asked me then oh okay well that makes sense i get it like that i thought you're like avoiding that like if she wanted she's gonna go down all the mistakes she's gonna do all

51:46Adam Schafer:the mistakes she's gonna over train she's gonna do too much she's gonna challenge me and then go do the stuff after she asked me and i'm you just you let them because if you push too hard especially with the teenager you're just gonna go in the other direction so it's like you know this is like this game this balance game in fact i had a conversation with her the other night and i said you know you're at the age now where it's no longer you know i give you these boundaries and then i punish you every time we're entering into a phase where we have conversations yeah and i said and so long as you're open and we have conversations i won't have to revert back to i mean she's 15 so

52:23Sal Di Stefano:she's technically in the coach phase almost friend phase you know 18 is when you transition the friend phase and so you're in that kind of limbo stage of just kind of coaching but transitioning over to where more kind of a friend than you are. It's interesting. The daddy role, you know?

52:38Adam Schafer:It's an interesting transition.

52:39Sal Di Stefano:Oh, I can imagine how, I mean, I'm not there. I have no idea what it's like, but I can only imagine how difficult that is. I mean, I think this is a challenging thing for all parents, I think. I mean, that's why that last book that I read was so good. Because it's like, they're going to go through that whether you like it or not. And so, you know, if you end up being stuck as a parent who, parents in just one phase, and I think we all, I think all parents probably have a natural gift for one of the phases more than others. And so kind of like how you get stuck in a workout routine of like, you really like it, you're really good at it.

53:13Sal Di Stefano:And so you do it all the time and you don't move out of it. I think parents probably do the same thing with like their parenting style. It's like, oh, you're a really good like rule setter or you're a really good coach or you're a really good friend. But it's like the kids have actually phases neurologically that they're in and they're going to move through those whether you like it or not or whether you're a good type of that type of parent or not. And so learning to adapt to that and be aware of kind of what stage they're at.

53:37Adam Schafer:How are you navigating that, Justin? Because I know you've got it. I mean, your son's 15, same age.

53:40Justin Andrews:Yeah, he's the same age. And it's interesting because he's really getting into training, too. They have like it's a sports performance class where they weight train at school, which I was super pumped on. But we're getting into this conundrum here where he's overtraining. and I'm having to kind of coach him like through that of what's probably appropriate, you know, as he's training there, but then also having to go to practice. So he's already training so much of the so much. And I, and I've made sure to go to these gymnastic practices because like, I know they do a lot of like calisthenics and also like, but you know, I'm starting to see him like, Oh wow.

54:21Justin Andrews:They do a lot of body weight, like exercises and training. like it's not just skills training like he has them doing a lot so you know he's he's kind of working with the coach to back off a little bit of that so he can do a little bit more weight training focus and then just you know concentrate more on the skills and it's starting to do better but you know it's funny he's had his first like i have like a knife pain in my shoulder blade and you know they think it's like a real injury yeah you know and i'm like okay you know it's kind of like the first real like a strong like knot that that's like really irritating and inflamed and it's like you know we can work through this has he experienced like a deep tissue massage yet yeah so so he wouldn't even he wasn't even open to that and i was like gonna get in there and work and so now he's finally kind of allowing like courtney started to work on him a bit and he's realizing that there could be relief there and i'm taking him through a lot more mobility type of movement so he could like help to kind of you know alleviate that so it's he's learning now too how to navigate when he gets the pain signal and like if it's a if it's a real like alarming pain signal or if it's just something that's like tight over yeah use kind of stuff

55:38Sal Di Stefano:you know i speaking of this like i i did not unlock deep tissue massage until way later way later same i thought it was i thought it was silly i thought it was like more of meditation

55:51Adam Schafer:yoga thing i did not think i didn't think there was any benefits at all to muscle oh it wasn't

55:56Sal Di Stefano:i don't think it was until my mid mid to late 20s before i got really introduced to like a sports massage yeah and it like unlocked a whole nother level to me that i'm like damn man i wish i was more open to this uh when i was younger and so i can only imagine at that age like huh what why No, it doesn't make sense.

56:14Adam Schafer:I had a massage therapist in my studio that was so good.

56:18Sal Di Stefano:Was that finally when you did a long walk for you too? That's it, because I could see my clients. Because that was like late 20s or 30s for you also. Exactly.

56:22Adam Schafer:So they would train with me and they'd have dysfunction. I'd do correctional exercise. They'd work with her either before or after, and they improved so much faster. And then I was like, oh, maybe I should try this for myself. It makes a huge difference.

56:34Sal Di Stefano:I mean, I feel so, it's crazy how everything kind of just aligned perfectly with when we were first starting to build this business. and I was competing and kind of using that as like a little bit of, to get some attention and attraction for the show. And that was also right when Katrina and I were first starting to date and she was also still running a massage clinic and was massaging me. I got massaged every night for like well over a year of consistency. I swear that unlocked my ability to train at the volume and intensity I did to get that.

57:07Adam Schafer:Jay Cutler was big on it too. Oh, bro. He was huge on it. and and you get a pump after by the way you get a pump after a good massage yeah the blood flow

57:14Sal Di Stefano:increases yeah and you you speed up recovery like crazy yeah and so if you have if you have high training volume and training as hard as i was training back then like i i you know if i didn't have that i don't think that i reached the level or definitely don't put on the size and get to

57:29Justin Andrews:where i was at in the short time i did it's funny though uh so this is i knew this was going to eventually happen but like teenagers you kind of have a stereotype they're going to all of a sudden eat you out of the house he's like six full meals like every day isn't that crazy yeah and it's like heavy protein like lots of protein and he's i mean he's starting to really fill out like even since last you guys seen him like working in here and i'm just like tripping out like it's just like i with him especially you know and again you never know because like your kids are different personalities and whatnot but like i'm like him being the buff one i didn't see it coming you Yeah, he's a beast right now.

58:07Justin Andrews:So it's interesting. Yeah, that's cool. It's cool.

58:10Adam Schafer:Element is an electrolyte powder. You add it to your water. It has enough sodium to actually make a difference. Most electrolyte powder is too low in sodium to actually make a difference. Not Element. By the way, it's sugar-free, no artificial sweeteners. It's amazing. It tastes good. And it works. Hydrates you. I get better pumps in the gym when I drink them. Anyway, go check them out. Go to drinkelemente.com forward slash mind pump on that link. You'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase. Back to the show.

58:41Abbye Stockton:Our first question is from Jenea May. What should your training look like while on a cut? Heavy weight, low volume, low weight, high volume, slow down tempo, etc. I know you don't build on a cut, but I want to do the best I can to maintain the muscle I already have.

58:57Adam Schafer:Well, that last part of the question really speaks to what's important when you're on a cut. When you're on a cut, obviously... Try to build. Yeah, the ultimate goal is to lose body fat. That's why people want to cut. The second goal is to preserve as much muscle as possible. You don't want to lose muscle on a cut because that makes the subsequent cut or as you progress through the cut much more difficult because your metabolism starts to adapt. And one of the ways it adapts is your body starts to pare down muscle. So the goal with your training, always on a cut, is to preserve. The number one goal is always to preserve as much muscle as possible.

59:36Adam Schafer:Now, the problem or the challenge with that is people think, okay, I want to preserve muscle. That means I need to hit my body harder with strength training. I need to do more strength training, more volume. That's the wrong approach. Your calories are lower. Your nutrients are lower. Your ability to recover and adapt are lower because of the lowered caloric intake. Your body can't handle as much stress on lower calories. So the key is actually to do less. So you still want to strength train, but you want to do less volume. And that typically looks like less sets, less exercises, and oftentimes lower reps.

1:00:14Adam Schafer:So people don't realize that increasing the amount of reps that you do, even if the weight is lighter, generally means you're doing more volume. The formula for volume is sets times reps times weight. It's not a perfect formula, but it gives you a nice good idea. So typically in a cut, believe it or not, and of course there's always caveats, which I'm sure we'll get into, you want lower volume, lower reps, and less.

1:00:38Sal Di Stefano:Which, okay, I actually don't think you even need to change to this. I think it organically happens when you're in a cut. So when I'm following a program and I go into a cut, I'm weaker. I mean, I'm lower calorie. Fatigued quicker. Which is going to organically lower volume. I'm going to do the same programming that I was doing the week before when I was in a bulk or surplus. The difference is when I go, I just, I accept that when I probably go to get that, put that weight on, I won't be as strong as I was the previous week. And that's okay. I'm not pushing it. I'm not going like, oh, I got to do the same weight as I did last week.

1:01:16Sal Di Stefano:It's like, oh, I'm going to, this is all I'm moving today because I don't have the same energy and strength, but I'm going to go through the same amount of sets for me. I don't change it because the volume comes down because I'm weaker. And so the mistake that I think people do is because that, they try and ramp up the volume because they notice that they're weaker and they try and do more trying to gain, which that's a recipe for going the wrong direction.

1:01:38Adam Schafer:Well, a lot of times the ramping up comes from the idea that they need to burn more calories to accelerate the fat loss. Or that. Which is just not a good approach. Look, the amount of volume required to build muscle is higher than the volume that is required to keep muscle. That's right. And trying to build muscle in a deficit is not a good approach. You're reduced caloric intake, reduced nutrient intake. It's not going to happen.

1:02:04Justin Andrews:Yeah, true strength signal is the best move here. And so, yeah, I mean, if there's any element of endurance, like it's probably not beneficial at this point, being as though you're not providing yourself with that adequate amount of energy to expend. and so it's going to look a lot more like longer rest periods you know you're going to use these bouts of intensity uh to just press you know these compound lifts so it really looks like a true like

1:02:32Sal Di Stefano:strength training regimen yeah i think i think the point you made and where you're going right now is the it's like let's let's talk about what the probably the biggest mistake people make here's what they do they're on a cut and they start doing cardio and they start doing a bunch of supersets and moving faster in the workout, trying to chase like a sweat and a burn. Like that's like the worst thing you could do. In fact, all the opposite. Like Justin's saying, longer rest periods, focus on lifting strong. You're not going to be stronger, but try and be stronger, right? So you're lifting heavy, you're giving long rest periods.

1:03:01Sal Di Stefano:You're not doing a bunch of cardio endurance. So the worst thing you do is go in a calorie deficit, pick up all kinds of cardio and pick up volume and intensity in your training. And it is so common. it's common in the professional like you see it with all the pros it's crazy again was one of these things that you may have heard me comment on the podcast that i thought was like a massive

1:03:23Adam Schafer:advantage i'm like man these guys are just way way doing this wrong there's three ways to lose a lot of muscle in a cut okay that's it right there one is don't strength train two is over train three is do a ton of cardio all three of those four is cut a bunch of calories while you do Too many calories. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm talking about you cut calories. All right, how should I train if I want to lose muscle? Do what I just said. How should I train if I don't want to lose muscle? Lower volume strength training, focus on getting stronger, longer rest periods. That's what it looks like.

1:03:53Abbye Stockton:Next question is from CMOS23. I wanted to do the top eight exercises for six weeks. I have five days a week and 30 minutes a day. How would you go about programming it?

1:04:04Adam Schafer:The grade eight. Yeah, the grade eight. You're doing one to two exercises a day. Doug, if you could pull up the list, it's squats, deadlifts. I like two a day. Yeah, but okay, what order? Let's order them for them. Because two a day will fall in that 30-minute range perfectly.

1:04:21Justin Andrews:Pick either your squat or deadlift is a good one to start with.

1:04:25Adam Schafer:Yeah, so it goes squat. There's a squat, deadlift. There's an incline press. There's a row, overhead press. I think there's a lateral slide drag. There's a windmill and then a perfect sit-up. if I'm not mistaken. Did I get them all there, Doug?

1:04:41Abbye Stockton:Yeah, I believe so.

1:04:42Adam Schafer:If you could put them on so I could just look at them and then order them all in the workout for five days, I'll break that down for somebody. Give them a good idea of what it's going to look like. There you go. So day one, you could go squat, incline press. Day two, deadlift, overhead press. Day three, row, lateral sled drag. Day four, windmill and perfect sit-up. and then day five you could start with squat take two days off and repeat the cycle yeah there you

1:05:12Sal Di Stefano:go yeah that's it and then you got a great simple great routine grade eight that's what it is

1:05:17Abbye Stockton:grade eight next question is from suz germain is it okay to exercise daily as a 59 year old woman as long as i vary my workouts different muscle groups for strength four or five days per week

1:05:30Adam Schafer:cardio two to three days per week etc it depends on the intensity depends on what exercises and what you're talking about. If you're strength training every day, you're probably doing one or two lifts a day as a 59-year-old woman. Maintain your cardio and you're good. The challenge or the difficulty or the problem, well, that happens with everyday hard workouts, everyday long workouts.

1:05:54Justin Andrews:You get to undulate your intensity and pay attention to that and volume. So yeah, if you keep your volume really low and maybe you have an intense day and you follow it up with a less intense day you could pretty much do it each and every day i think the most important

1:06:09Sal Di Stefano:you're saying is that i'm hearing is intensity and volume and this person's asking the wrong question they're asking about varying the workout so this is not a matter of can i train every day because i vary it up doing different exercises different type of stuff that'll be too much it's it's probably a lot of volume you heard sal say two exercises a day so if you're training every single day math 15 it's probably like a math 15 type of routine two exercises that's it exactly you varying them up, but still training an hour a day every day is probably, especially with also two to three days a week of also cardio.

1:06:41Justin Andrews:I would throw in, yeah, like mobility focused days in there, one to two times a week. If you can't break it up, that'd be ideal.

1:06:48Adam Schafer:Of course. But Mass 15 for this person right here would be perfect. Yep.

1:06:53Abbye Stockton:Next question is from Snackpack86. Six, how do you combat high hematocrit and high hemoglobin on TRT?

1:07:01Adam Schafer:That's easy. So you do run the risk, some people, when they're on TRT, where their body produces too many red blood cells, okay? And this is a problem. This could cause issues. Now, there's a range of where your red blood cells can be. But if they get too high, you can run the risk of things like heart attack or blood clots, stuff like that. This is an easy fix. you give blood blood yeah that's it in fact uh bodybuilders who are not on trt they're very very high doses will will schedule themselves two or three a year where they give blood you can get a prescription for this by the way so you can go to your doctor hey i have high uh you know red blood cell count and what they'll do is they'll schedule you for um you know for a for them to take blood from you and it's not actually donating they're just taking the blood from you to remedy this Again, it's pretty simple.

1:07:52Adam Schafer:Or if you're healthy and you want to go donate blood, you go to your local Red Cross and you do their tests, and then you give blood. I do this once or twice a year, both for the health benefits, but I also have type O blood. So it's a universal blood type. so and by the way most men the studies the studies will show giving blood once a year is health as healthy for men once a year anyway regardless if you're on trt or not so that's it easy fix and you get a cookie i'm not giving any of my blood away look if you like the show come find us on

1:08:33Abbye Stockton:instagram we'll see you at mind pump media thank you for listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sal adam and justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the rgb super bundle is like having sal adam and justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the rgb super bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on itunes and by introducing mind pump to your friends and family.

1:09:36Abbye Stockton:We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pump.

From the publisher

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer four Pump Head questions drawn from last Sunday's Quah post on the @mindpumpmedia Instagram page.

Mind Pump Fit Tip: Everyone needs to try BULKING! (2:20)
Feel healthier with Green Juice. (24:20)
The Mind Pump dead hang challenge. (26:36)
Hate losing or winning more? (30:05)
Strongwoman showcase: Abbye "Pudgy" Stockton. (34:48)
One of the greatest weightlifting legends of ALL-TIME! (37:22)
The excitement surrounding the UFC White House card. (39:48)
Cocaine shrimp. (44:31)
Rock Recovery cares. (46:06)
How exercise can open amazing paths of conversation. (47:55)
Navigating the different stages of parenthood. (50:01)
Unlocking the value of deep tissue massage. (55:38)
#Quah question #1 – What should your training look like while on a cut? Heavy weight, low volume? Low weight, high volume? Slow down tempo, etc.? I know you don't build on a cut, but I want to do the best I can to maintain the muscle I already have. (58:41)
#Quah question #2 – I want to do the top 8 exercises for 6 weeks. I have 5 days a week and 30 minutes a day. How would you go about programming it? (1:03:53)
#Quah question #3 – Is it ok to exercise daily, as a 59-year-old woman, if I vary my workouts (different muscle groups for strength 4-5 days per week, and cardio 2-3 days per week)? (1:05:18)
#Quah question #4 – How do you combat high hematocrit and high hemoglobin on TRT? (1:06:52)

Ask about this episode

In short

Episode Title

Q1

Q2

Q3

Q4

Transcript

More from Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth