2699: Is Protein Overrated? (Listener Live Coaching)

27:19You know what I'm saying? It's like staying healthy. You're only getting like maybe one or two a day at the most. Yeah, dude. As many customers as you can have. Oh, yeah. I wanted to bring something up that we had on a live caller that, and the reason why I wanted to talk about it was because this was a I felt like a pretty regular conversation that we used to have maybe it was because I was competing back in the days and so we talked about it so weird I was going to go oh really yeah it just I mean I felt compelled to talk about it because I was as we were talking to her about this I thought you know what it's been a while on the podcast since we've kind of discussed this and it still is a popular thing so it's really common especially in the Instagram world where people start to get in a little bit of shape and they want to use the competition to get further in shape, right?

28:11So they've lost a little bit of weight. So like bikini contest. Yeah, and so they want like a target to like now push. And I get it. It's the reason why challenges are so appealing to people. People like some sort of a target, a goal, a competition for them to compete against. And they think it's a good strategy for motivating them to get healthier. And I, you know, I can't, I can't say strong enough how much I'm anti that and how much of a terrible idea that is for somebody to go and use competing as a way to try and get healthy, especially considering a majority of us have some sort of underlining body dysmorphia issues that got us into working out and or some sort of a unhealthy relationship with food and dieting that that is the the absolute pinnacle of those two things i mean that is uh body dysmorphia on display and also extreme radical dieting on this it's like the the pinnacle of both those things and so to sign yourself up when that in the pursuit of health is a terrible idea.

29:26It's not healthy. It's not a healthy thing to do. And if you, if, if you struggle with, uh, any kind of body image issues, like you said, or you've had any struggles with food relationship, whether it's overeating, under eating, of course, extreme cases, uh, you know, just, you know, bulimia, anorexia. Uh, but even if you just like, yeah, I have trouble overeating or, you know, I, I tend to under eat. It's hard for me to go into reverse diet. Um, Or you're like, yeah, you know, I'm pretty critical of myself in the mirror or I weigh myself all the time. The last thing you should do is sign up for a competition where you get judged on how you look.

30:03Yeah. You are setting yourself up for terrible dysfunction, not to mention it's unhealthy. It's so unhealthy. The only people that can get away with it are people who go into it so healthy with such a fast metabolism. They have such a long runway that they end up okay. Otherwise, where people tend to end up is hormonal dysfunction, crashed metabolism, and their body dysmorphia is 10 times worse. Exaggerated and crazy. And then possibly the best thing that could happen ends up being the worst thing that could happen to you, meaning you do the competition, you white-knuckle your way through it, it gets you there, you garner all kinds of attention, You become famous.

30:49People praise you because what you transformed into, what your body looks like. Now they're asking you for advice. Now you feel compelled that maybe this is my future career. That is like the worst thing to happen. And then now you have become this person who competes and does that. And meanwhile, never fixed that underlying issue that you had of body dysmorphia or your relationship with food. and then now you're celebrated for this thing that you've done. Whoa, even worse. Not good. I mean, just the numbers, you should be pretty lean with a high caloric intake. In other words, have a high maintenance, pretty lean, not training like crazy.

31:30You just work out like normal, you know, four days a week lift weights, a little bit of cardio. That's where you should be before you get into prep. If you're not already pretty lean, eating a lot of food, you have no business going to prep because you got to cut it way down and work out even more. And where you're going to end up is in a really bad place. Not to mention the mental part. First of all, I'll be even more aggressive, Adam. Someone with no body dysmorphia will end up with a little bit of it. Because now you're on stage and here's what happens, guys and girls. When you're on stage, this is what the judge says.

32:03Your glutes a little undeveloped. There's a little bit of softness in your lower back. Your right delt is, they're picking you apart. and you're posing. I don't like that left quad. Yeah, like what? Like the pursuit is perfection of how you look in the sport. It's not a good, it's not, this is, look, this is why when it was my turn to do the series, you know, Adam, you did one getting back into shape. Justin did one on a gargantuan overhead press and I didn't want to do one because I knew if I did any kind of a fitness related series, either a lift or a look i know myself it's gonna spin me like i'm not i know you went for love i'm aware i'm aware enough to know and i told you guys this i said no no if i go into you guys are crazy if you make me do this i'm gonna it's gonna put me in a bad place it doesn't matter what the fitness goal is it's gonna put me in a really bad place uh luckily i picked something that tackled that issue but if it was knowing myself you know and that's not even a competition that's just a video series, let alone like going in speedos on stage and having people break my body down.

33:15So then people ask me, well, then, you know, who is right for it or who can do it? A generic number I would give my women and then my men. You have no business competing if you're a woman and you're already under 2 ,800 calories. So you want to be 2 ,800 calories. Then you have to be relatively lean. Right. And be relatively lean there. I would want you somewhere in the high teens to low 20s so high teens low 20s body fat percentage and eating north of 2800 calories my men 3500 calories and then the low teens so 10 to 15 body fat 10 to 15 body fat for male over 3500 plus calories now i know that is a generic number and it depends on your body weight lean body mass all the things but those are pretty good basic like rules that you got runway yeah if you're listening and you're considering that and you're like, oh, I'm about 19 % body fat, but I'm only eating like 1 ,600 calories.

34:11Yeah, not a good idea. Where are you going to go? Yeah, nowhere to go. You have nowhere to go. But actually you do. You have nowhere to go. Unhealthy. That is the only place to go. Severely. Yeah, it only gets unhealthy from that point. If you're already eating a low calorie intake and then you want to take your body to an unhealthy body fat percentage, it will require you to be very unhealthy to even try and get there it's even worth it's unhealthy for both men and women but especially for women because on stage bikini which is the softest quote-unquote of the presentation sports for women so another you know figure you got to be even leaner fitness you know it gets even leaner leaner leaner you got to be on stage what are women hitting on stage bikini 11 12 body fat yeah at the highest yeah you know what that body fat percentage does to a woman you lose your you lose your period yeah and you're you have you have hormonal dysfunction you will have hormonal dysfunction men are you know you're hitting the stage at four percent uh men are a little bit more resilient but your testosterone's on the floor it's gonna be you know hitting stage at four percent body fat i don't care who you are so uh and that's with somebody who's healthy and again i actually think the the thing that you think would be the best outcome would actually be the worst outcome because you're getting for you to do it well confirmation yes and do good and be praised for it and win heaven forbid that happens yeah because then that comes with its own host of problems downstream from that and then now you die now you've created this persona online that is attached to that real tough to break away from that not a fan dude i gotta i gotta tell you guys what my my two and a half year old did yesterday just she cracked me up so she's you know she's only two and a half she'll be three in a few months actually and she's like we're on the couch and we're all playing and she goes but I have super powers so I'm like oh that's cool she likes she's got super powers she thinks she has super powers she goes watch this so I'm sitting on the couch she goes to the end of the couch and she's standing on it and she runs full speed at me and I swear to God you guys she does a flying kick to my throat like she runs she jumps and boots me like my Adam's apple Oh, my God.

36:22Wow. And I'm like, oh. And she's like, do you like it? And I'm like, yes, I like it. She said, don't try to kick me in the throat, honey. So the rest of the night, because I let the kids play rough with me. You know, mom doesn't like it. Jessica doesn't like it when they play really rough with her. But I want to let them play a little bit with me. And I'll let them push the limit. Like, I don't let them bite or scratch or anything like that. Because she'll also bite. She thinks she's cute. She tries to bite. And I'm like, no biting. but yeah dude so she just over and over again she run from the end jump and swing her leg and just it was pretty good i was impressed roundhouse i'll say bro you'd knock out another two road so my my son's school has this thing where they ask him these kind of like kind of uh i don't know creative thought-provoking questions and i was so irritated the other day because i was i i had no answer and i mean i pondered on it forever and i could not come up with a good answer and i felt like I failed my son and I'm like is it just a difficult question that like I what was the question the question was if you were invisible for a day what would you do and what was your answer I didn't have one that was my problem I couldn't anything I could think of is creepy yes that's exactly and that's what my six-year-old son and I'm like if my buddies were saying I have a pervert answer to say back that would be funny but not like a real answer for my six-year-old son so I was lost what would I son what would I want to be invisible for a day?

37:50Where would that benefit you? It is, because it either involves stealing or spying. Or being somewhere you're not supposed to be. I thought that was a weird question. I guess you could tell them, like, oh, I would play a funny trick on mom, and I'd move things and make her think that what's going on, and then I'd laugh and tell her, hey, I'm invisible. Where else would you go with that? I know. Okay, good. That was a really tough one for me to answer, was if I was invisible for a day, what would I want to do? you said women's locker room yeah well yeah i mean that's like the porky's 80s well you know eventually what i had to say to him and explain even when it came out came out it sounded really bad because i was like i i came up with eventually uh going to be in the the warriors locker room so i could hear the plays before they go into the basketball game which i'm like that sounds really bad yeah saying that i want to go into a men's locker room yeah i explained it why it's like oh so i could hear what the coach is telling them before they go and play the game or whatever that But I could not think of a really creative, good answer to give my son.

38:51I'm like, man, they're asking these kids that. I'm like, what are they expecting to get from that? Like, that's a, what is the right answer? You got some, Doug? I think you came up with a good answer. I don't think there's a great answer for that. No, it's like you say, everything's kind of creepy. Yeah, that's true. What a creepy superpower. Yeah, like I would just watch everybody. Well, that was another one they asked. Another question the next day or the day before, I don't remember what it was, was if you could have one superpower, what would it be? What'd he say? Well, I said freeze time.

39:20That's what I said. So I could come up with one for that. Nice. Yeah, yeah. I thought freezing time would be cool. Freezing time would be interesting, wouldn't it? Yeah. Like, what if, okay. Especially if you can operate outside of that. Now, here's what's weird about that. I've had this conversation. You freeze time. Yeah. Everybody stops aging, but you continue aging. So the more you do it, the faster you age in relationship to everyone else. There's a cost. That's actually kind of cool because then it would keep it in check. Yeah. So you wouldn't abuse that power. That's right. You would use it judiciously.

39:45You would be like, okay, this is a really good time. I just, I really effed up right there. Rewind, freeze. Let's do that over again. Okay, that was worth it. You know what I'm saying? Versus, and you do it all the time. You abuse that power every day. You're going to age really fast. Everybody's going to be young. I mean, that or you could like go back like five minutes or something like a small amount of time just to correct maybe something in the moment, you know? What if five minutes wasn't enough though to stop a major thing? You know what I mean? Like five minutes isn't enough to stop this horrible disaster.

40:14Right. That would suck. That would suck. Well, yeah, because what if the horrible disaster was like a family member who lived two states over or something like that? Yeah, but that would be the check. Answer the phone! That would be the check and balance in that, too. It's like, you know, it's limited by the time frame. At least that one, I thought, was creative enough to do this right here. Create a good dialogue. I like that one. But the invisible one for a day was just like, I want to hear what all these kids said. What do these kids say? How do they answer that? And what is the right answer there?

40:40Just to be able to explode somebody with one punch would be amazing. Wow. Justin's just, he's got some darkness inside. I mean, it's be fun. Do you know how strong a gorilla is, by the way? I learned this the other day. Do you know how strong a gorilla is? As strong as 30 average men. Well, that's where that thing went viral, right? That's where that came from. Oh, is that where it came from? Oh yeah, that's where they came from. How many men would it take to take? Yeah, because that started that trend. That's so stupid. That's what that started that trend was that a single gorilla could take on X amount of men, like easily.

41:08Bro, you imagine being strong as 30 average men? Yeah. That's crazy. But even then, you're there with a bunch of other guys, and you're trying to figure out, like, the attack. How does that work? Like, how do you, like, I'm going to take out the ankle. A bunch of people are going to die. Yeah. You have to attack them once. In two or three, you're going to get torn apart. I mean, 10 guys with a strategy going in absolutely could do that. With no weapons? Yeah, that's the thing. No weapons? If, listen, if four of you, I'm saying with at least 10 men, right? If four of you are, we're working together, and you go for the legs.

41:42With no weapons. I mean, you have to be really organized, but I don't know. Let me tell you something right now. By the way, this is what made this go viral. I don't even know if you could do this. No, you couldn't. Yeah. Listen. Were you all going to punch him at the same time? With no strategy? I think with strategy. I don't care. I think with just like rushing, no way. Listen to me. You can only get 10 guys to pounce at once. Here's what will happen. You'll go in with your strategy, and you'll see someone literally get torn in half. Yeah. Everybody. Exactly. He's going to scare everybody. They're going to run, dude.

42:09I guess that's fair. As soon as he pulls someone's head right off. Yeah, dude. their neck. Bail! What was I thinking? We're Apex Predators because we have weapons, dude. Without weapons, we're weak. Yeah. We can't do nothing. But that would, obviously, that's the great equalizer is that we would have a weapon or we would use it. We'd be smart enough to use it. Have you seen, there was this old, there was this like Japanese game show, which Doug introduced me to Japanese game shows a long time ago. They're really weird. There was lots of weird ones. They're weird, dude. Yeah. But there was one where people were competing against animals.

42:41And there was this, it wasn't even a gorilla, bro. It was like a chimp, just like a normal chimp. And he was doing tug of war against a sumo wrestler, big sumo wrestler. And he was holding onto the rope and the sumo wrestler was yanking. The chimp looked like nothing. Like he just sat there like he wasn't even trying. In fact, he took his hand off at one point. And then he finally just like he figured out like, oh, I'm supposed to pull. And he just pulled the guy like it wasn't a chimp. like 150 pound my favorite 10th of War thing that they did and this was on the internet not that long ago that I thought was pretty interesting was they I forgot how many kids does it take to pull like two bodybuilder guys like so there's they use I think I think Thor did it I think him and somebody else did it I can't remember really and it was actually surprising because you would think that a bunch of kidney gardeners they would just they'd drag a whole school around you know what I'm saying like no way but actually enough kids just the weight and the leverage was enough to like pull them And so I don't remember what number it was.

43:39It was like 50 kids or something. Oh, is that the one, Doug? I believe so, yeah. He found the video. Sumo wrestler versus a monkey. No way, dude. Orangutan. Orangutan. Oh, it was an orangutan. It wasn't a chimp. Look, he's a four-foot-tall orangutan. 180-pound orangutan. Oh, my God. Yeah, dude. And he literally just chills while the sumo wrestler just pulls as hard as he can. And does he, like, just hold onto the rope? Yeah, he just holds on and doesn't even care. Watch. You'll see. Watch. He's like, ugh. Look, he's just like, eh.

44:10He doesn't even care, bro. He's got a diaper on because he's like a baby. He just pulls them across like it's nothing. Isn't that wild? That is wild. You'll have to look up the one with the kids, though. Look for the, how many kids does it take to pull two bodybuilders, two strongmen or something? So I'm all into this right now because I have an almost five-year-old boy. So he loves asking me these questions. He loves just pitting things together. You know, there's a whole series of books on this. I told you about it. Oh, it was you who told me? Oh, okay. Yeah, I ordered them. Did you get them?

44:38No, I haven't got them yet. Oh, your son's going to love them. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Bro, I used to make, you got to do this with him and take like different types of insects and just put them under a jar and let them have them go at it, dude. What a great idea. Praying Mantis wins everything. Yes. Everything. They do win a lot. Everything. Is it everything? Oh, they are. Dude, we are so lucky they're as small as they are. Oh, bro. That's like one of the most vicious ones. Oh, yeah, dude. And they're made to attack. Well, don't they kill their own mate too? Yeah, they eat the - and eat them in, don't they?

45:05Yeah, they rip its head off and then they eat it. Yeah, isn't it something like that? Like she gets pregnant and then she kills him right afterwards or something like that? Yeah. Something vicious. She's like, thank you for your seat. We were looking up elephants the other day, and you know there's videos on elephants going after like big trucks. Like they have these big tour trucks, these tour bus looking things, and they have like a big bull elephant charging it, and you're supposed to stand your ground, but there was one where the bull elephant goes up to it, and he just picks it up. Lifted it up?

45:33Yeah, he just picks it up. Wow. Like it's nothing. Yeah, that would be... Imagine seeing that like in person, how scary that would be. Oh, terrifying. Did you look up how many kids does it take to pull two-star? Yeah, I actually have the video here. Oh, you found it? Yeah. Yeah, it looks like we're watching a commercial. Yeah. Yeah. There we go, Doug. We got to pay for YouTube Supreme or whatever it's called. What's it called? I have no idea. Is that the deal? That's how cheap I am. I don't pay for these. Burrito Supreme. You found it though, Doug? There's a video on it, right? Yeah. I think Justin's right on the guess.

46:07I think it's somewhere. What's your guess? How many kids does it take to pull two strongmen? Two strongmen? Yeah, two. How old are these kids? Little kids. Right here. It was them. A hundred. How many kids was it? No, not even a hundred. 20 kids. 20 kids. That's it. I would have thought they would have easily. I feel like I could pull 20 kids. Brian, Sean, Eddie Hall. 20 kids averaging 50 pounds. That's 1 ,000 pounds of kids. those guys are they're all pulling together yeah that's a thousand pounds of just dead weight is hard to drag right and then if they're actually pulling in the opposite direction so this was one of those ones that i was like oh they should be all surprising it's totally surprising you would not think 20 little eight year old seven year olds what you're saying is if a if a classroom of children organized mutiny they could totally overtake man i wish i had known that i mean look how much they're trying to pull oh they're dragging her across the floor uh-huh wow yeah i would have never guessed i would have never guessed that either i i would have thought like a hundred kids look at there's not that many little kids like yay wow look at that dude that's wild uh i gotta i you know this we might look at these strong men i just thought i just thought of something uh sleep apnea which is quite common all these guys have that yeah yeah yeah you know did you guys know that eight sleep has uh the ai technology will identify if you're snoring and And they have, it'll adjust to make you stop snoring while keeping you asleep.

47:29I want to try that. Do you have that one? I don't have that one. I want to try that. So that's the, Doug might have to look up the different levels or packages. There's another level from what I have, which is it's also the mattress. So it's not just the pod cover, but it's also the mattress. So it adjusts too. And I haven't slept in one or I haven't had one. Do you guys know how unhealthy snoring is? Do you have any idea? Doug, look up the health list. Don't do this. Don't do this. Listen. Yeah, but isn't it basically anybody over 200 pounds at that point is going to be susceptible to some kind of apnea?

47:59If you have a big neck or you're a big dude. You lift a lot of weights, your tongue grows too. And so that's a problem. Yeah. Obstructing your airway. That's why we can't dead hang either, Justin. It doesn't look good, though. Before you read the stats. I'm still salty about that. Before you read the stats, here's what finally got me to get a CPAP machine. A Darth Vader machine. This is what finally got me to get it. Okay. Besides my wife sleeping in another room, which was sad and made me sad. Yeah. And I was stubborn. It was Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. We were doing a podcast with her and we talked about it and I said, oh, I, you know, I snore.

48:36And then after the show, she comes up to me, she goes, get a CPAP. Like in my face. I'm like, why? She goes. Takes shaves years off your life. Bro. Oh. I've read the stuff. I'm like this close. I'm like on the brink. Because it's been like. Bro, dramatically increases your risk of heart disease. Always tired. I'm over it, dude. You get a stroke. Yeah. Heart disease. Your brain. It's not good for your brain. No. It's not good, dude. Yeah, but like, how did people survive, you know, before sleep apnea machines? Huh? You just died young. Yeah. Exactly. You just died. What do you mean? You just died five years earlier and you didn't know?

49:12It's like, we didn't have these masks, you know, forever. No, we also didn't have antibiotics. This is true. it's not that bad it's actually not that bad it's not? no it's not that bad you're also a morning sex guy not a night sex guy though too so if you're a night sex guy bro you don't put it on while you're talking to your wife you only put it on when you're ready to go to bed you know what I mean sometimes that's full mask what do you mean you go to sleep and then your wife wakes you up No. I mean, we go to bed sometimes, and we go to bed like we're just going to go to bed, but then, you know, shit happens.

49:51Well, then you take your mask off. I don't know. She's not. My wife, if she sees me put the nasal strip on, she, oh, we're not having sex tonight, I guess. Yeah, it's like a turnoff. Like, I'm an athlete. Look at me. Come on. I've tried. I've tried to cover once. I tried doing the eyeliner underneath. I've tried it all, Justin. If I put that nose strip on, I may as well just chalk it up. I'm not getting sex tonight. Hold on a second. So I already have that. Like, okay. It's not going to go with it. You can hear me in the dark. Hold on. But your relationship's a little different because she's usually the pursuer, right?

50:27She tends to pursue more than you do. Yeah, yeah. She would disagree with that now. Early on in our relationship, a lot. But I would say... So then you're the one. If you're pursuing her, don't put it on until you take the shot. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's like the nose trip one is that I have to wait until I just decided, okay, I'm not going to go after it. And then you put the mask on and then you go to sleep. You'll get better sleep. You'll get way better sleep. I'm literally probably going to do it and I don't want to. I really don't. So what I'm curious about is am I potentially having trouble breathing and that's what's waking me up and then I have to go pee?

51:04Yes. So what would close me is if I actually slept through the entire night and I didn't get up to go pee, I would probably be sold right away. because if I still get up to go pee and it's disrupted anyways, then I'm like, well, who cares at that point? Do you sleep on your side with your mask? Yeah, you can sleep on your side. You can upgrade your sleep as well. Well, that's what I was definitely... Well, sleep apnea is a whole other level. Yes, that's true, but this should reduce some of that anyway. Yeah, I'm... So that's the bridge. I'd probably say one out of 20 times, one out of 20 nights, Katrina might say, oh, you snored a little bit tonight, but I'm not like a heavy, at least not where I was when I was.

51:41I'm at the point where I pass on the couch, and I was like, and I heard myself. Well, there's those days. I feel like everybody should get a pass. There's certain days when you're exhausted from traveling or something like that. If I pass that on the couch, I'm probably snoring. This has happened a lot. My grandfather used to snore so loud, guys, that I don't care what room in the house you were in, you heard him. That's Katrina's brother. You know how our family, we always get together and we all stay? We have to put him in the furthest back room, closed door, white noise between the door and him.

52:14Wow. You have to set his room up. Just the wall shaking and everything. You have to set his room up so he doesn't disrupt all the other bedrooms. Wow. That's how bad it is. Wow. And you need to crank that white noise up so loud so it drowns his story. Mine got worse as I got bigger. Getting on hormone therapy, building more muscle, definitely got worse. Oh, yeah. When I was bodybuilding, which is ironic, right? I was in a crazy body fat percentage shape. Best shape of my life. at that time. Well, let's be real, everybody. Muscle is healthy. You push it beyond a certain point, you're not as healthy.

52:48So true. That's just a fact. Yeah, there's no getting our way around. You're super jacked. You've sacrificed health in pursuit of looking. And a man like me that naturally no hormones, my body wants to be about a 198 pounds, maybe 200 pound guy, and I was pushing 220 pounds of lean mass on my body. So it's like I'm 20 pounds, 30 pounds over my total weight my body even wants to be and justin was right your tongue grows yeah that's what happens you gotta you gotta i read that and i was like yeah and then i talk a lot so my tongue hypertrophy like it's you know kinds of reps super hypertrophy dude justin's got that working i'm just imagine if you tell you imagine if you talk i do drills and things how do i talk about my voice i mean courtney's not mad about it so it's not a bad thing so all the different techniques all right i think that's the end there doug just blue is methyl and blue uh that you could take to boost energy endurance cognitive performance methyl and blue really works go check them out go to troscriptions.com that's t-r-o-s-c-r-i-p-t-i-o-n-s dot com forward slash mind pump on that link if you use the code mind pump you'll get 10 off back to the show our first caller is carrie from massachusetts hi carrie how you doing carrie hello hi i'm actually from colorado not massachusetts but a little different well welcome hey guys um i'll just and read my question so we stay on topic and generally my question is about visceral fat and the best way to target it.

54:29So I'm five, six, 43 years old, 160 pounds, 16 to 17 % body fat. For reference, my SPD PRs are 402 squat, 232 pound pause bench, 435 pound deadlift. So I'm strong and I have low body fat. I'm very happy with my body comp and my strength, but the last place I hold on to fat is my midsection. I have been tracking with Adexa every three to six months since January of 23. I've been in a slow cut since then, dropping from 192 pounds, 24 % body fat, 139 pounds of lean mass in January of 23, down to where I sit now, which is 160, 16 % and 129 pounds of lean mass. But here's my problem, my visceral fat.

55:26So my visceral fat dropped slowly from one and a half pounds, a volume of 40 in January of 23, down to 1.2 pounds in eight of 23. A year later, it was down to just under half a pound. and then in January of this year, it was almost zero. However, in August of this year, it went back up to half a pound. Yes, a half a pound increase is within the margin of error, but in the three years I've been tracking, it's never trended up. I'm not overly concerned with the half a pound. The volume is within reason. It's nothing super unhealthy. It's all about the trending going up. my question is, are you guys familiar with re-hit or any other type of sprint or max effort training that will target visceral fat directly?

56:27No, this is splitting hairs, but for me, a 20 plus year lifter and strength athlete, that's where I am. I don't do any real cardio other than lift my heavy weights faster. I lift heavy three times a week, eat 95 % whole foods, hit protein, hit fat, sleep eight plus hours, reduce stress, sauna regularly. So I'm doing all the things. I really don't want to do any cardio for the sake of cardio. But from the research, I'm seeing this re-hit or sprint training specifically for visceral fat may be something I want to add in. I would love to hear your thoughts. Yeah, good question. And you are really strong.

57:10I want to hear those numbers again. I was like, did you say, did I hear a 400-pound squat? Yes, sir. 402. And that was in a comp. So it's competition squat. Okay. 232 paused bench, again in comp, and then a 435 deadlift. Yeah, that's crazy. I don't think you're going to like our advice. I think you're already unbelievably strong. You're already unbelievably ripped. You actually said it in your question. splitting hairs within the margin of error. But if, I mean, if we want to play the splitting hairs game, first off, you mind if I ask you a personal question? Absolutely. Okay. Are you on any hormone replacement therapy or do you use any performance enhancing drugs?

57:49Interesting to know. During my max lifts, I was actually in the tank. I started TRT right out a year ago and I was at zero for everything. Even my cortisol had flatlined. So about a year, yes. So this change goes along with starting TRT. I've been on about four months of TRT when this increase occurred. Okay. That's okay. I'm glad I asked. Okay. So you're on hormone replacement therapy, essentially. Yeah. Okay, good. Yes. HRT. Okay. So what you typically see with visceral body fat changes, and by the way, trending would be two or more measurements, not one. So typically I would want to see another measurement to see if we're trending.

58:36We're actually trending in a particular direction because it is within the margin of error. Okay. Typically what you see with body, with visceral body fat percentage on lean individuals, which is what you are, you're, you're sitting at 17 % body fat, a lot of lean body mass. You could, you could equate it to hormones. So changes in hormones can change body fat storage distribution. Now in high level athletes, what that looks like is too much stress. Now I would imagine, especially based off what you told me where all your hormones were in the tank with your competition. And when cortisol is in the tank, we used to call that like stage, I think it was three adrenal fatigue.

59:17Yeah. Okay. So what that typically tells me is you've probably trained hard and like played with that line of doing enough and doing too much for years and years and years. And so the last thing I would have someone like you do is either cut more or just intense cardio. Now, if you want to do with intense cardio, we'd have to switch your goals to endurance and stamina. But if you want to continue pushing the limit with strength training, which it sounds like you really enjoy doing, it would just be overall steps. You would want additional activity that is also recuperative, not additional activity that's going to take away from your ability to recover and adapt from your strength training.

1:00:02Does that make sense? It does. So I have changed and gone away. About a year ago, I changed and got away from overdoing the strength because I totally went all in, as you can tell with my numbers. and so in the last year I've really tried to embrace and refocus on less is more a lot of what you guys preach and so I'm definitely on that track what kind of freaked me out was the visceral vat change while I'm also trying to make this adjustment more to less is more okay so you have we have two there's like imagine a venn diagram and over here I have health and over here I have performance. Okay. And there's a crossover in the middle, but if I push to, if I push far in one direction, I lose from the other one.

1:00:50So if I go hard and performance, I'm sacrificing health. And this is just a reality for athletes. This is all athletes. I don't care what athlete you are. If you compete at a high level, you are sacrificing health and longevity for performance. Uh, that's just, you know, there's nothing you can do with that. We all accept it if we push at that level. If you're looking for maximal, if you want health, um, then you have to be okay sacrificing some of the performance. If you want to keep pushing performance, then this is a game that you're gonna be playing for a long time. And it's going to be a game of, you know, splitting hairs.

1:01:25And so if we're doing that, you know, if you were my client and I'm looking at you, I'm like, okay, 17 % body fat, maybe visceral body fat went up a little bit. I'm going to look at things like, you know, carbohydrate types. I'm going to look at like glycemic index, you know, maybe a CGM. Let's see if we can keep your blood sugar levels really stable. I'm going to look at, you know, forms of activity that are recuperative, like lots of walking. Those are the things I would play with while, you know, continuing to track. If we want to move towards health, your body fat percentage needs to go up and you may sacrifice a little bit of your strength.

1:02:05I mean, you're so strong. You have so much lean body mass. You're so far on that level that that's probably what's going to look like. I mean, we rarely talk to people that have reached probably their genetic potential. You're that percent, that very, very small percent. Yeah, you're 0.001%. Yeah, you're there. Like, you already won. You won the game. You're like, you're as strong as they get. You're as lean as they get. I mean, if you keep going this direction, it just, I, your body, what you probably feel is kind of pushing back a little bit. That's right. It's, it's not, it's not like you're doing something wrong.

1:02:38It's just saying enough is enough. We're lean enough. We're strong enough, you know? And then it's, it's not really like you did something wrong per se. I just think you are, you are flirting with that edge. And yeah, something's got to give a little bit. Either you accept I'm going to be a little bit higher, which is not high, but a higher body fat percentage than I maybe like. Or you, like Sal said, you might sacrifice some of the strength and then get healthier, you know. But I mean, again, you're, I mean, personally, if you like what you're doing, I would stop looking at it so closely. I would, yeah, just stop looking at it with a magnifying glass and just kind of move away from it a little bit.

1:03:20I don't mean move away from training. I don't think I could rip you away from training if I tried. But just kind of taking the magnifying glass and then just maybe taking a big picture look at things and maybe redevelop a relationship with it that isn't so connected to extreme performance. I mean, that's one way to do it. I think that way is going to be a way you're going to have to do at some point. You know, maybe not necessarily now, but, you know, as you get into your 50s and 60s, you'll probably have to move away a little bit. But this is like, like I said, if we're splitting hairs, what we're looking at is glycemic index, blood sugar, hormone profile, you know, like growth hormone, you know, peptides may help a little bit with that.

1:04:04But again, we're still within that margin of error. So, and we'd still be pressing into that kind of performance realm. obviously i knew exactly what you're going to say and i hear you and probably a better question for the three of you is how the hell would you advise me to change my perspective? So, yes, I've been an athlete forever. I've lifted forever. I've hyper-focused forever. And I'm really trying hard to refocus. And this is just another thing that I need to refocus and see the bigger picture. So, long-term-wise, I'm trying to get there. But how would you guys help me, give me advice to change that perspective?

1:04:48It's not about the 500-pound deadlift anymore. It's about staying strong and being strong. But then I like being motivated along the way. So like, how would you advise me to help me change that perspective? I think because you're a competitive person, like to be able to take something like meditation or some restorative practices in a competitive, repeated, systematic process where, you know, this is something that's so important that now I'm just, I'm elevating this as a priority and how many times I can string days together where I'm applying these restorative practices. And, you know, at least if that just opens the door for you to start shifting that mindset a bit.

1:05:34I went through this process myself, not necessarily the level you're at, but like college football and like training my entire life, like killing myself to the point where that's all I cared about. So then dropping off and having to figure out, well, what actually makes me feel good? What, you know, brings me closer to health? And like Sal's example, the Venn diagram, I think if you kind of can visualize that of like where I am in that in that in that diagram and how I can kind of maybe pull myself for a while in a different direction competitively and really challenge yourself to, you know, make effort in that direction.

1:06:09Yeah, well, think about it this way. I'll give you some, just along the lines of what Justin's saying, I'll give you some, maybe some specific steps, okay? If somebody were to ask you, you know, you get some woman who's never lifted before, 20-year-old, she's like, hey, I want to get a 400-pound deadlift. You're going to take her there step by step by step by step, right? So you've got this ultimate goal, but there's steps along the way. Your ultimate goal is I'd like to have a, and correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to have a relationship with this where it's really about health and longevity.

1:06:41Okay, that's far away from where you're at right now. Because right now you're like performance, max strength performance. Yeah, you're peak right now. So let's look at some steps in between. When I've worked with people like you, I'll take them and I'll direct them towards something else that's competitive that moves us a little bit more towards longevity. So like an example would be jujitsu. Maybe let's see if we can get you into jujitsu, right? That's competitive as hell. You'll have to strength train less. You'll probably get really into that. Now that's not the be all end all, but that'll move you way enough away from what you're doing to kind of get a different perspective on, you know, what performance feels like that isn't so tied to strength.

1:07:23I like going the unconventional lift too, like getting into a Turkish get up, you know? or like really getting into like a specific movement that is so out of your normal realm and being because I get the competitive I mean this is how I had to move away from the kind of bodybuilding macro focused mentality I had when we started this podcast to get away from that it was like okay I'm gonna go the other extreme I still like being competitive I'm gonna be competitive about my movement now I'm gonna get so kind of obsessed about the way I move and working on my mobility that helped me transition from not caring about what I look like and counting the macros and doing that.

1:07:58So I've found that works really good with clients that are like high performers. I use like, how do I take that mentality, but shift it more? And I think jujitsu is a good example of that. I think getting into something, a movement or mobility is a good example. Unilateral training might be great, especially if you're a power lifter. You don't do a lot of, typically a lot of cycles of unilateral training. You know, map symmetry would be a good program to play with. Yeah. And, you know, after a couple months, you could go back and play with your squat and deadlift and get back into it. So that'd be an option that's not so far away from what you're doing that it's scary, but it is different.

1:08:31Shifting too far would probably be problematic. Oh yeah. Yeah. If I try, you try to pull in the opposite direction, you're like, I don't want to do this. I'm definitely going to, I'm definitely going to encourage you to try and let go of one of the two main things that I think we got, which is the 17 % body fat or the PRs. So either one of those two has got to get kind of put on the back burner. It's like, okay, let's agree that it's going to be the body fat percentage. We're not doing body fat testing. That's just, that's, we're going to throw that away. We're not even using that measurement right now.

1:08:57And we're going to focus on these things we're talking about. Or maybe it's the PR thing since you're so you could lose 50 % strength and you're still stronger than 99 % of everybody. So whatever one you feel more comfortable with, I'm going to push you in that direction. Like, okay, let's, let's not be measuring both of those and like using that as a North star. Let's get rid of at least one of them right now. And that's kind of how I'd start to move you in that direction. Ultimately, I mean, it could even be as easy of a step like this. You keep doing what you're doing, but you stop paying attention to numbers.

1:09:24You stop paying attention to how much you're lifting. You stop paying attention to the scale. You stop paying attention to body fat. You don't heal it. Tell that to all them gold medals up on the wall there. Yeah, there's a bunch. That's really hard to not think about the numbers, but I definitely like the idea, and I've been trying to add in some new things. You guys just did a podcast on the eight exercises you need to do for longevity, And I literally yesterday did lateral walks for the first time. Oh, cool. And they were amazing. So I really like the idea of embracing something new that I can still be stronger.

1:09:59Yes. But it kind of adjusts because I'm on a good path for lessening my training and I'm in that direction. So I like the idea of adapting that more. And maybe down the road I can stop worrying about body fat as much. But I think embracing it one piece at a time is a good recommendation. I love that. I love that. And it's one thing I forgot about. And if you look at the data, what helps people in your situation quite a bit oftentimes is to switch from competing and doing to coaching. And it brings so much purpose and value to high-level athletes who are trying to make that transition is they then start to coach other people.

1:10:39It's a natural evolution. And it feels so purposeful. Are you not a coach already? yeah i've been certified since 2010 i just don't do it actively as much because we move quite a bit so i don't have any clients or anything right now i just continue to learn on my own this but i you know i'm always the friend that has the advice they're always the friend that says let's go squat i'll teach you how to squat yeah so it's definitely part of my personality oh man yeah if you're interested in coaching do you do you work otherwise would this be something i do okay i work from home. So it's just something I, I've only really done it for friends and is like a piece of just me as who I am, but not really embraced it as far as employment or for money or anything like that.

1:11:23If you ever, if you're ever interested in doing it as a, as a, for like a, as a coach, like working as a coach, apply with us. We've, we're, we're looking to hire. And I'm telling you, it's, uh, if I didn't train people as bad as my relationship can be with fitness, If I didn't train people, I don't know if I'd be here. It saved me quite a bit because I care so much about the other. It's so easy for me to train people well because I care about them. It made me look in the mirror quite a bit, and it kind of put some rails on the stuff that I would do. Looking in the mirror can be pretty scary, but, yes, good advice.

1:11:55Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Well, is there anything else we could do for you, anything we could help you with otherwise? No, I appreciate the perspective for sure. I love what you guys do, and I'll definitely be following you. Thank you. Thanks for calling in. Thanks, guys. That's got to be the strongest woman. By far. We haven't had anybody who squats 400. Yeah. Well, first of all, that's super rare. Ridiculously rare. But even more rare is a 260-pound bench press for a woman. Well, and carrying yourself at 17 % body fat. Any chick that's pushing that kind of weight is normally a big girl, too. That is crazy that she is that ripped, that age, and then that, oh my God, that's crazy.

1:12:41Yeah, and that's got to be so hard to pull away from because you've gotten so much, so many accolades, just so much encouragement for how well you do. It's been reinforced. Yeah, she's really at the peak. Yeah, and then you reach a point, you're like, wait a minute. I mean, she's calling about within the margin of error of visceral body fat increasing on a DEXA scan. Part of me thinks so. She knows us well enough that she knew what we were going to say. I think part of it is she just wanted. Confirmation. Yeah. She just wanted. I think that's the whole point of bringing that up is just I need to hear it from these guys telling me that.

1:13:13Because it sounds like she's already making those steps. The fact that she took that episode, did the lateral drags and stuff like that. She's wrestling with it mentally. I mean, someone like that. When I've had clients like this, no one at that level, by the way. She's like very, very rare. But I've had clients that are obsessed about working out and moving away. like do really good with finding like a Turkish get up or a windmill. You just got to redirect it. Yeah. And get them like really into, cause you get, that's a really cool exercise to get really strong in and it's very difficult and it takes time and it's very rewarding when you get strong at it.

1:13:44And it just, it helps. I think if she became a coach, it would really, I thought that's good advice. No, no, I think that's good advice too. Even, even so if she listens to this, even if you don't do it for a professional living, I think even like creating content that's kind of around that. Even a free group. That's exactly what I mean. There's a lot of female powerlifting. I mean, build a following on social media that's related to that where it's an outlet for you to teach. You don't necessarily have to be paid for classes and on a rigid schedule. It's like when you have time, make a video and post it.

1:14:15Our next caller is Allison from Indiana. There you go. Hi, Allison. How you doing, Allison? Hey, guys. How's it going? Good. How can we help you? Good. First of all, just the traditional thank you guys for what you do. You're literally a part of my testimony. I've been listening to you guys for a long time. So excited to be here. Thank you. So my question, I'll go ahead and read it. After a long time of playing golf at an elite level, including three years at a high level D1 university, I'm not really sure what comes next. I've been weightlifting for years. I'm pretty strong, but I've never really been at that goal physique.

1:14:57Since I started playing college golf, I've tried not to worry too much about being at my perfect body fat percentage because I recognized that my body was doing a really cool feat, and I was already at the place I need to be at to compete well. But now I have one more year at school, and I had to step off the team for personal reasons, but I get the chance to kind of play around with my fitness on my own schedule now. I'd love to lean out a bit. I'm at about 28 % body fat, and I kind of think like 23%, 25 % might be my ideal, but I'm kind of stuck on how to get there. I've been doing golf programs that are kind of similar to anabolic for a long time, but I'm wondering like fitness-wise, where do I head next?

1:15:47Have we tracked macros and calories? Do you have any idea what you're doing? I try not to track too closely. I've had problems with that in the past, but I do hit over 100 grams of protein a day and probably 2 ,000 calories if I had to estimate. Okay. So typically the strategy, by the way, great goal. I mean, 23 to 25 % body fat, very healthy, super achievable. It typically looks like this. Hit your protein, small calorie deficit, focus on strength training, and focus on daily steps. And so if you do those things on a consistent basis, what you should see slowly over time is a nice body change in composition.

1:16:36So you should see yourself recomp. So slowly get stronger. Protein is consistent. my caloric intake is right around maintenance sometimes deficit and you'll see your body slowly change over time and you'll probably get from 28 probably within three months you should be down to right around where you want to be so what about program wise for her because i feel like i mean you're she's right at that calorie range where i don't know how much i want to cut you from 2000 and so we technically could lean out just by good programming hitting your protein intake and kind of hovering around maintenance, which I'm totally okay with that, which is kind of that suggestion.

1:17:14If she's running something that is similar to anabolic, maybe going a different direction program-wise. Totally. Do you know what your steps are daily, by the way? Symmetry, maybe. I don't have a number. It's probably 15K on a college campus. That's a lot of movement. Oh, you're good. Are you playing golf for fun or doing that also? or okay how often yeah i mean golf i also rock climb um oh wow yeah okay that's a lot of movement for only 2 000 calories yeah if you are stepping 15 000 steps a day you are you are rock climbing playing golf and strength training and strength training 2 000 calories we need to go up we got to go up in calories and that might be why you're kind of hovering or staying where you're at is you're you're due for like a reverse diet and need to like slow build yeah how many days a week are you strength training um three three days yeah okay um you know we could switch up your program uh we could probably put you on something like symmetry would probably be a good program for you just to change things up and you know slowly focus on getting stronger and through that process you should see yourself recomp because you want to cut with that much activity already at 2 000 calories probably not a good idea no no you're not going to see you might see a little bit of results in the first week or two and then after that you're going to hit a hard plateau how many days a week would you say you were rock climbing or playing golf consistently um i probably um like three days of like uh rock climbing or golf and then three days of weight lifting and i always have a rest day i think she should go mass 15 or performance 15 yeah yeah i think he's right yeah actually yeah adding up all that activity yeah i mean i'm assuming rock climbing isn't a 20 minute thing i'm sure it's hour or hours right well then you have to really consider that yeah like if you just follow the 15 protocol and it's going to complement it well yeah if you get stronger with your strength training and you're eating healthy and continuing your activity then we're moving in the right direction so that's what i would pay attention to so i do agree with them i think mass 15 would be good and i think you'll get stronger pretty consistently week over week on that program i'll have also have doug uh put you in the private forum so you can kind of keep us posted as you go through this but if i'm hitting it right i think you can follow the nutritional advice that Sal's giving, eat that way and just follow Mass 15, continue doing what you're doing because you love doing all those things.

1:19:40And I think we could do it. I think you might just be kind of tipping over as far as the amount of activity and training you're doing with as low of calories. And you need just a little bit of a bump in calories and a reduction in probably the amount of physical activity. I think you're going to see positive change. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. It is a little hard for me to get to the gym that often because it's like a 15-minute jog away. You can double them up. So the way MAPS 15, it could be three days or it could be six days. So, yeah, basically there's two exercises a day. And all you would do is put day one and day two together, day three, day four together, day five, day six together.

1:20:20So if it's more convenient to just go three times. But the amount of volume that's in there is what I'm looking for. I actually think that symmetry or anabolic or any of those other ones are a little more volume than I'd want you doing with all the stuff you have going on. Okay. I think you'll see better results with that. Yep. Yep. That sounds great. Thank you guys so much. You got it. All right, Allison. All right. Bye. I like that her goal was good. Yeah, it's a healthy goal. She gave us a good goal. Yeah. That's a lot of activity. A ton of activity. I'm glad you asked. For only 2 ,000 calories.

1:20:51Yeah, I'm glad you asked that. But, you know, this happens to, that's why I was like it didn't, 2 ,000 calories is not necessarily bad. But with that much activity. With that much activity where she's at, her body is just adapted. You know, it's gotten to a point where it's like, hey, she's only going to feed us as much and we're doing a lot of shit. It's so counterintuitive, right? People don't get it. You eat more in a situation like that and you get leaner. Yeah. That's what happens. Yeah. Our next caller is Steve from Texas. Hey, Steve. What up, Steve? Hi, guys. How you doing? How can we help you, man?

1:21:21Great. So I'll just jump into the email that I sent to Margaret. Talked to her a couple times back around January or so, right before I started my cancer journey. December of last year, right after Christmas, I was diagnosed with throat cancer.

1:21:38And I knew treatment was going to take a lot off me, so I wrote and told her a little bit about my story, and she took it to you guys and you all recommended the MAPS Transform program for me. So I completed all my surgeries and treatment. Latest scans, just as of last month, showed cancer-free and just kind of on the road to remission and recovery from there. Made my way through MAPS Transform and I'm feeling great. Treatment took 35 pounds off me that I wasn't really willing to lose. I've gained back 20 pounds while building muscle and staying lean. And that muscle memory that you guys talk about is a real thing.

1:22:22And I just wanted to take the opportunity to thank you all. Thank Margaret for her help. And then just kind of see where to go from here. Professionally, I'm a police officer. I work on a full-time SWAT team. So strength, mobility, and then resiliency is my main focus. I just turned 45 this year. I've got two young kids. so I want to be around and stay mobile for all that yeah awesome man congratulations by the way on your diagnosis that's great man that's awesome uh mass 15 performance would be a great transition from transform love that that'd be perfect for you right now yep yep okay um I'm in the middle of uh uh anabolic right now I bought I bought anabolic after I was done with this just to give that a try I'm on week four and my lifts are back up to pre pre diagnosis before I got sick and probably surpassing that now.

1:23:19That's great. Oh, yeah. You know, shoulder pain, you know, shoulder pain for a lot of years. None of that is present on any of the lifts on any of the presses. So, but yeah, I'll give that 15. Skip phase three. Skip phase three on anabolic. so when you're done with phase two go straight to performance 15 okay and you'll still you'll keep getting stronger yeah that's it man fantastic easy brother and i'd love to hear back from you yeah sure yeah i'll stay in touch i'll email back um with margaret let her how you know let her know how it goes and and uh just keep listening to you guys you guys are fantastic i appreciate it that's great man i appreciate you telling the story too that's great man god bless we'll send that over to you sure thing thank you you got it that's great dude that is great that is really great a year ago lost all that gained it back through it curious too it'll be interesting uh the 15 i think the the right answer right away after transform was what you said the fact that he's been doing anabolic and seeing such good results that's because well he's in phase he's he's week four so he just finished phase one yeah he's in phase two yeah phase three ramps up the Volume.

1:24:27And I think that wouldn't be a good idea to jump into that. I think he's feeling strength because of phase one and because of the muscle memory. Yeah. So finish phase two. You know, that's like your 8 to 12 rep range. Still volume is still, that's okay. Yeah. And then 15 performance will keep him going. Hit him with that frequency. That's right. Okay. Our next caller is Lane from Arizona. Lane, what's happening? What's going on, Lane? What's up, guys? How you doing? Yo, this is crazy. It's really good to meet you guys. Thanks for having me on the show. You guys are amazing. Been listening to you guys for years.

1:24:54I'll get right into my question if that's cool. Yeah, let's do it. Do it. All right. Just got to pull it up here. I'm very nervous, so I'm going to read straight from the question. I see why people do that now. So, yeah, I cannot squat. For years now, I've been able to progressively overload four of the five big barbell movements pretty successfully, except for the squat. I'm not the strongest because I've always struggled with discipline and consistency. I've been chasing that 225 bench still. but nonetheless I have been able to go from about a 115 to a 190 bench in the past five years I've been training on and off I know pretty pathetic but again consistently is consistency is key and I failed at that I've been able to squat 200 though my form was probably questionable which is probably part of the problem more recently I've tried programming a full body day once a week consisting of these big five movements and I cannot seem to squat comfortably anymore regardless of the weight even the bar is hard for me I struggle to get even 10 reps with it the best way I can describe the problem as a combination of poor mobility and a lack of neural drive to my cns maybe not the proper term but you get where i'm coming from it just feels so much harder than it should i assume as with most things in life the reasons for this issue are just that reasons plural not just one thing uh again probably poor form early in my lifting journey which i have attempted to correct and i think have made improvements on i also work in construction and have done some damage to my knees hips and low back as a result i also live in arizona so working in the summer certainly drains a lot of my energy that i would otherwise be able to take advantage of in my training.

1:26:23Especially being on my feet 10 hours a day, I assume that alone can affect my ability to squat, but I may be wrong. I also don't get enough sleep, which is on me, but at the same time, getting up at 4 a.m. means getting to bed by 7 or 8 p.m. at the latest, which is really realistic for me. Granted, I am planning on leaving the construction industry and pursuing what I love, fitness. I'm currently enrolled in the ISSA certification program, and I'm going to become a personal trainer, but if I'm being honest, I don't want to be the trainer that can't even high bar squat the bar. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to get to a place where I can make real progress without making the problem worse.

1:26:55Thanks, guys. Yeah. First off, you don't have to be able to lift anything to be a good trainer. You just have to be able to be a good coach. Sure. That being said, I mean, you said it, it feels like a lack of neural drive, which is probably the case, and it's probably due to the sleep and or nutrition. Okay. So that's it right there. The program I would have a guy like you follow would be MAPS 15, no more than that. And I would really try to string some days of sleep. You would be shocked at the difference sleep can make. Or to put it differently, how the difference lack of sleep over time will have on the body.

1:27:34And it does very, very strongly impact the central nervous system. It just fries the body, dude. So MAPS 15, have Doug send that over, right? And then I also, I'd like to throw you in the forum because I'd actually like to see the squat because if I can see them, if I can see the squat, I can actually give you like more precise. Typically hips and ankles tend to be the go-to place that I got to address. And so if I actually see you moving, I can give you even more advice like, Hey, let's work on the 90 nineties. Let's do some combat stretch while we also do that. And also keep in mind too, while we're working on these things, you know, Bulgarian split squats are fine you know lunges are fine uh all but i think your your question is good because i think you shouldn't just give up that oh i'll never squat it's like why am i not able i refuse to do that right right right so i appreciate that uh you know timing we'll do bulgarians whatever that but then we can start working on these things and again i'm just spitballing and guessing because i haven't seen it but i i'll put you in the forum so i can see it and i mean frequency is key like you had mentioned as well and to do that as well like body weight squats are great and valuable you can even so i always tend to kind of point people towards this dumpy squat reason being is because what i'm trying to do is to increase that that tension and to be able to produce more force output so um to to be able to sit where where you know it might be your weakest point of the lift to then transfer that to come back up, to recruit as much and maximize that process, to really focus on that isometrically.

1:29:12And, you know, between that and box squats and really kind of like taking that head on to start really driving more connection there and maximizing your force output is going to help a lot. You know, obviously the mobility and the limitations, you know, need work and attention with that. But I mean, that's the majority of, you know, what's really going to drive your numbers up. Yeah, Lane, I can't stress this enough, right? So because I've had a few clients with some pretty difficult situations. Less is more. I can't stress this enough. Yep. So you could start with MAPS 15. If you don't see yourself getting stronger, like right away, then you could go MAPS 15 every other day.

1:29:58You can follow the program and do day one on Monday, day two on Wednesday, day three on Friday. You're not even on a seven-day schedule. You're just every other day following routine. I've had clients like you where we had to scale back, scale back, scale back, scale back, and then finally we saw some progress. Give me an idea what the sleep does look like. Like honestly, you wake up at four. On average, on average, what time are you falling asleep? On average, I mean, between 9 and 10 p.m. on a regular basis. And then I also know what's just as important or what's just right under the importance of the amount of sleep is sleep frequency and a circadian rhythm.

1:30:38And I always make the mistake of waking up way later on the weekends than I do on the weekdays, right? So that's a huge issue, too. But throughout the week, I mean, I'm getting 5 to 6 on a regular basis. Yeah. Less is more, dude. so when you get mass 15 if you don't see yourself getting stronger by week two scale it back and keep scaling it back till you see yourself start to progress yeah for sure and then one just one more thing you know i i agree and i and i know that the sleep is is really the foundational thing here is there any tips you guys have also having busier lives than me i would argue how you guys can get to bed and wake up on a regular basis even even though you know it's difficult to do Are you able – Routine before bed.

1:31:17Yeah. Do you have a lunch break? I do. I have multiple breaks throughout the day. Yeah. How long is your longest break? 30 minutes. Are you able to take a nap? Nah. I'd be napping on a steel table if I did. Yeah. Yeah. Or in my car, I guess. I could take a nap in my car. You know, honest to God, 15-minute naps, they actually make a pretty big difference when you string a bunch together. If you can do it. Yeah, they make a pretty big difference. That would be it, bro, because you're in hard labor. You know, you're waking up early. You know, you could have a sleep routine and do all that. I would say, oh, don't sleep in on the weekend, but that's probably saving your butt right now.

1:31:56I know. It's to sleep in on the weekend. That's what I feel. Yeah. Yeah, it's a trade-off, dude. It's like, you know, when you wake up at four on Saturday and Sunday too, you'll be more fried than you feel now. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I appreciate it, man. I do like the routine advice, though, with Justin saying. I do think that trying to create some sort of consistency around, you know, this is what time I hit dinner. And by this, no later in this time, I'm at least in bed with no electronics and just trying to get in the system as much as possible. There's a few supplements I would recommend to you that you could look at.

1:32:27Ashwagandha is at the top. Rhodiola would be another one. Panax ginseng would be another one. They all just kind of help the body kind of handle stress. But ashwagandha at the top. Absolutely. All right. Awesome, man. guys and you know yeah i love you guys you guys are amazing and as a lot of people have said you know on the show uh sal i i commend you and and your courage for your faith i'm also on that same walk uh and just recently uh started to give my life uh to christ so man i i love you for that thank you i love the rest of you guys man you guys have so much wisdom and and you're so respectful and humble and you guys just are amazing and i try to turn people on to your podcast all the time I appreciate it, man.

1:33:05Thank you, Lane. Thank you, Lane. Yep. Yep. See you. Thanks, guys. I had a client. I just remembered this. I've had a couple clients like this, but I had one guy that I trained. I'll be careful how much I say because he was a high-level executive. I'll just say that. Think of, like, some of the top tech companies in the Bay Area. Yeah. He was second. Okay. Okay. And his schedule was ridiculous, like crazy. And he hired me to train him. And I knew he had a crazy schedule. And I worked with him two days a week. And when I started with him, I thought what I was doing with him was appropriate intensity and volume because it was very little.

1:33:39And we would just not progress. And I'm like, is it, am I doing still too much? Like what's going on here? And I scaled it back. This is what our workouts look like. Two exercises twice a week. That's when you start to see strength gains. It was, he would come in and we would do squats and bench. And I'm talking like 75 % intensity. And then the next time he came in, I do two more exercises. and that was when we finally started to see strength gains. I had to scale it so far back because he was just this stress. Burn the candle. It was just so much. His bucket was full, man. And that was the only way we could make progress.

1:34:12Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, Check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

1:34:58The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.