2721: The Problem With "Science Bros" Fitness Advice

In short

Mind Pump Podcast Episode 2721: The Problem With "Science Bros" Fitness Advice

Episode Overview In this episode of Mind Pump, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews address the pitfalls of relying on fitness advice from "science bros." They emphasize the importance of balancing scientific data with real-world experience, exploring various health and fitness topics, and answering listener questions.

Key Points

The Dangers of "Science Bros"
Definition: "Science bros" refer to fitness influencers who heavily rely on scientific studies to dictate fitness advice without considering individual nuances.
Common Issue: They often overlook personal experience and behavioral psychology, leading to misleading conclusions about fitness effectiveness.
Authority Misplaced: Their scientific jargon can give them undue authority, making it difficult for individuals to challenge their claims.

Real-World Application of Science
Data vs. Experience: While scientific data is crucial, it should be balanced with real-world application and personal experience.
Human Behavior: Factors such as motivation and enjoyment impact workout adherence more than rigid adherence to scientific findings.
Training Frequency: Studies may suggest equal muscle growth regardless of training frequency, but practical experience shows that people may miss workouts due to poor adherence to rigid schedules.

Listener Q&A Segment
Listener Questions: The hosts respond to multiple listener inquiries:
Gut Health Reset: A listener asks how to reset gut health for long-term wellness, suggesting potential underlying issues like SIBO or parasites.
Training Adjustments: Questions about maintaining muscle during cutting phases and adjusting workout programs for specific body needs.

Health Tips and Recommendations
Service Quality: Sal shares insights from his recent experience at Disneyland, emphasizing that high-quality service enhances the overall experience.
Hair Care: Discussion on hair growth products and the effectiveness of Caldera Lab's new hair care system.
Cavities and Gum Disease: Research linking dental health to increased stroke risk is noted, underscoring the importance of maintaining oral health.

Fitness and Nutrition Promotions
Black Friday Sale Announcement: Mind Pump announces a significant discount on their fitness programs and services.
Listener Engagement: Encouragement for listeners to engage with the Mind Pump community for tailored fitness solutions.

Conclusion The episode wraps up with a reminder of the importance of balancing scientific insights with practical experience in fitness. The hosts encourage their audience to focus on individual needs and behaviors in their fitness journeys, emphasizing that real-world application is often as important as the science behind it.

Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, Mind Pump with your hosts, Sal DiStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness, health, and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we had live callers call in. We got to coach people on air, but this was after the intro. Today's intro was 55 minutes long. In the intro, we talked about fat loss and muscle gain and diet and current events and family life. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one, just send us your question.

0:35Email it to live at mindpumpmedia.com. Now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Caldera Lab. They make skincare products and hair care products that are backed by science that are also all natural. They're very effective. In fact, over 90 % of the people that use them in studies see significant improvements in their skin and hair. Go check them out. Get 20 % off. Go to calderalab.com. That's C-A-L-D-E-R-A-L-A-B.com forward slash mindpump. Use the code mindpump20 and get 20 % off. This episode is also brought to you by ButcherBox. They deliver high-quality meats and wild-caught fish to your door.

1:10And if you go through our link, butcherbox.com forward slash Mind Pump, new users will get either a whole turkey or ham included for free in the first box or ground beef included in every box for the lifetime of their subscription. Again, it's butcherbox.com forward slash Mind Pump. We also have a brand new sale. It's Black Friday starting right now. Everything is 60 % off, okay? Everything. Every maps program, every bundle that's already discounted, take an additional 60 % off. Every mod, every guide, 60 % off. By the way, every purchase gets you entered into our contest. Two people are going to win one week free vacation at the Mind Pump Park City House, plus$1 ,000 towards their travel.

1:51Five people are going to get three months of one-on-one coaching from our trainers. And 10 people are going to get three months of our concierge coaching. Every bundle you get gives you 10 entries. every maps program gives you three entries and all the mods and guides give you one entry you gotta go do this go sign up go to maps fitness products.com if you want the bundles go to maps bundles.com by the way the code is black friday for the 60 off all right real quick if you love us like we love you why not show up by rocking one of our shirts hats mugs or training gear over at my pump store.com i'm talking right now hit pause head on over to my pump store.com That's it.

2:29Enjoy the rest of the show. T-shirt time. And it's T-shirt time. Oh, shit. You know, my favorite time of the week. Oh, yes, it is. So we have four winners this week, two for Apple Podcasts, two for Facebook. The Apple Podcasts winners are Lewis1105 and NateJ33. And for Facebook, we have Steve Ratzlaff and Zach Hillsbrown. All four of you are winners. Send a name I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. Include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you. As if there wasn't enough to worry about, there's one more thing you got to check yourself on when it comes to fitness advice.

3:14It's the science bros. Uh-oh. We had the gym bros. Now the science bros are giving people terrible information. We're going to talk about that today, what they preach and why they're often wrong and why you need to be careful when taking their advice can we can we do that yeah is that what's that called like a like little big league isn't that like what science oh yeah that's what is that oxymoron is it an oxymoron is that a bit of an oxymoron well it's you know here's here's what i this is what i define as a the science oh i know what you do well you know i can pick i can picture this yes yes these are yes these are the fitness, I don't know, influencers, I guess.

3:52I hate that term, but that's what I'll use. Fitness influencers who are all about the data. That's all they present and talk about. This is what the science says. This is what the study says. Therefore, this is what you need to do. And this actually, oftentimes, now I don't want to say that there's no value in data, so I want to be very clear. Science and data is very important when it comes to figuring out what works best when it comes to fitness. Very important. But if all you do is rest all of your advice and laurels on the data and don't take into account experience or individual variants, things like that, you actually run into a lot of problems.

4:33And so oftentimes these days I'm finding more challenges and issues with the science bros than I am with the bro bros, right? It used to be bro science. Maybe that was the term that we use back in the day with the people who just would give this crazy advice that had nothing backing it. Well, now we got the science bros and I keep getting things sent to me from some of these influencers. Well, they showed that this study said that this worked the best and that this study shows this is the type of cardio. This is how you should lift weights. And because, here's what makes them so dangerous. They're more dangerous than the bro bros because - They have immediate authority.

5:11That's right. Because a study supports what they said, and because they're speaking in scientific terms. People take it as gospel. That's right. And so it's much harder to dispel. And that makes them a little bit more dangerous, I would say. No, this is – I mean, I feel like we've been talking about this since we've started this. It does – and I don't know if it's the algorithm on Instagram and so that once you start following one of these, you get more and more of it. But it's a dangerous place to be when it comes to getting in shape because a lot of times the studies and what's controlled in a lab send the average person down the wrong path of getting in shape and getting healthy.

5:55And once you realize that more of this game has more to do with behavioral psychology than it does physiology and nutrition, which is what these guys always come from, and argue that side, you realize that that stuff trumps it. I don't care if this is the best food to build muscle or do this, if it's something you hate eating and you're not going to do it. I don't care if this workout builds the most muscle, if you are terrible at following the protocol. Like there's so many things that, I mean, one of the last things that we discussed, I shared with you guys last week when we were talking about when I kind of had this, you know, epiphany of why I think full body is so much more superior.

6:39It has nothing to do with the studies. has nothing to do with the studies the case that i was making it was i understand not only my own behavior but the hundreds of people that i've trained over decades and their behaviors and if you follow this kind of bro split that a lot of people do to get in shape what ends up happening is you fall off on and off the wagon which is totally normal and i would say 90 of the people go through that. And when you do that, it just, it interrupts this in a year's time, you end up missing a lot of these body parts, which in is volume for those body parts within regresses you or doesn't progress you.

7:17Whereas if I always train this full body, even if the studies say that they're equal, right. As, as far as their results, but I know human behavior plays such a huge role. Well, then it ends up trumping that, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's a good example. Another, just to take a step back too, when you look at studies, lots of things in studies are controlled. Yes. In order to isolate certain variables. I like to call them simulations. Yeah. So they're artificial simulations of what people are experiencing in their lifestyle. Right. So I'll use a great example. And I'll just, to touch on what you're saying, Adam.

7:53So if you look at studies, when total volume is controlled for, whether or not you train a body par two days a week or four days a week, maybe even one day a week. In fact, there's some data that says it doesn't make that big of a difference, that it doesn't matter so long as the volume is controlled, which that's true when you look at the studies. The studies aren't lying, by the way. I don't want to say, I'm not trying to come here and say that the studies are lying. what I'm trying to say is that, and I'll use this example again, is this study is not what happens in the real world. In the real world, volume is not perfectly controlled.

8:29And when you do all 15 sets for your back on Monday versus spreading it out over three or four workouts, there's actually more volume in the more frequent workouts because why? Because you're stronger. Right. Even if you did the exact same sets. Yes. Because you end up being stronger. Even if you get the exercises the same. Yeah. Exercise the same, same sets, but what will end up happening is you'll end up lifting another rep or adding a little bit more weight because you're stronger that's right because you're not doing all 15 yeah in one workout but what they'll do in the studies is they'll control the volume so same weight same rep same exercises everything identical well then yeah it doesn't it doesn't make a difference but that's again that's not how it works in the real world another issue is that studies and this is just um just the this is not an issue uh with the study itself but rather uh we can't do or fund really long studies.

9:19It's kind of difficult to do. It's really hard to fund a year long study with a hundred people, uh, trying to look at things like rep ranges and stuff like that. And so, uh, when they do this, when they follow these studies for 16 weeks and they compare things like rep ranges, they'll show this particular rep range may be better, or they're all the same. So long as intensity, uh, is high. But when you work with people for a long time, you find that this just this breaks down after six months switching things out and moving into a different rep range does make a difference but you wouldn't see that um in a shorter study you know it'd be a fun series i'm totally gonna put this on air to put you on the spot because maybe i can get you to do this oh no what would be a fun series uh to have you do similar to how remember how lane used to do his like friday new study breakdown or what that he'd break down these new studies i think there'd be a lot of value in you breaking down old studies that we've all we all take as gospel forever and poke the holes in like, Hey, here's, here's a study that everybody probably has heard of many times.

10:20And we know, here's what I found in real world application and why, even though this is the truth, or this is what we know from the study, this is where we may not follow this. Like, it'd be cool for you to actually, instead of like doing brand new studies, but go back and like all these studies that, and the one, one being an example we're talking about right now with comparing full body versus body part split like i think that's a really good breakdown that the average person just doesn't think about they see that and the way they translate that which fair is like oh they're basically the same so do what i like to do right or do uh do what i enjoy doing the most so that trumps that right well no not if you not if you follow the the normal human patterns which is you know and i'd love to see if we have a study for this it's like you know you take a group of 100 people and you say hey try and work out consistently this year report when you work out and let's see the patterns of those hundred people i'm willing to bet that very few of the hundred actually never miss a workout and never miss a week of of course they're they're going to be and then then the question becomes what workouts are they missing yes which body parts tend to be neglected yes tends to be the ones they don't like right that's just what happens with human behavior yeah another one uh you know cardio is a this is established this is what would be considered established science uh and fitness right when you're comparing different forms of cardio, which ones are the most time efficient and the best at fat burning?

11:42Well, HIIT cardio wins. It just does. HIIT cardio in studies is superior, but it's not appropriate for everybody. This is where the study now falls apart. If you ask me over the last two decades of training clients, how many clients I had or what percentage of my clients HIIT cardio was appropriate for, it was a minority. A minority of my clients, not a majority, not even half. Maybe 20%, maybe. Maybe. Maybe 20%, 30 % where that was appropriate. Where everywhere else, everyone else, if I had them do HIIT cardio, they would have got worse results because of their stress level. There's no joint integrity there.

12:19Yeah, their biomechanics. And so the study may show it to be superior for fat burning, but if I apply it to the wrong person, which, again, majority of my clients, it would have been the wrong person, it would have been a disaster. Well, here's another one. The fasted cardio doesn't burn any more body fat. but i'll tell you the reason why the bodybuilding community continues to do it why i still appreciate it is not because of the controlled people in the study that oh it ends up if they eat exactly the same calories and do exactly the same amount of movement that's not how it works out but that's how it works out because what ends up happening if you're the person who gets up to do fasted cardio that normally means you get up an hour earlier than what you were before and you start moving and what that does to productivity throughout the day as far as total movement and And then a lot of times, too, even the behaviors around eating.

13:04I got up. I started my day with a workout. I tend to want to eat better. Changes. There is a chain of events behaviorally that happens because I did something like that. Now, maybe the bros did a terrible job of breaking down the science of why it's so effective. But there's a reason why we've been doing it in the bodybuilding community for decades because it works. It works really well. But it has more to do with all the behavioral changes that end up happening for that person that does that. And so there's an example of where, you know, the studies prove that that's, and then a whole bunch of people stopped doing that when it was probably really beneficial.

13:37Here's another one. This is more of a new one, right? Studies are showing that the stretch portion of a rep leads to the most hypertrophy. So, okay, what does that mean? Well, if I'm doing a curl, the bottom part of the curl is where I get the most muscle growth. The mid-range and contraction produce less muscle growth. And so they'll study this. What they'll do is they'll say, okay, this group over here does curls where they're just focusing on that lengthened portion. You guys are doing this kind of mid-range. You guys are doing this contracted, shortened position. Which one builds the most muscle?

14:12And it is the stretch position. But here's where that is misleading. If you do a full range of motion, it's not like you build less muscle, number one. So full range of motion versus just focusing on the stretch. It doesn't build less muscle to do a full range of motion. At best, they produce the same amount of muscle growth. so now someone's like well okay well why would i why would i want to do a full range of motion because here's the other part that nobody talks about if i just train in the stretch portion i most of the strength i'm going to gain yes is in that stretch portion so i may build dysfunction so i may build the same amount of muscle in a three-month period by focusing on the stretch and not the full range but now i'm starting to create just some dysfunction and then here's where my previous uh point uh starts to come into play extend that out for a year or two with dysfunction will that dysfunction contribute to worse progress in the gym impede on your actual performance that's right gym yeah because all the rest of your performance leading into the exercises can be affected that's right so if i if you know if and that's another one with the hypertrophy the science bros hypertrophy is king i don't care what this as long as the study if the study says this builds the most or the same amount of muscle yeah that's what i'm gonna go with or god but they don't consider all the other things that can later on either take away from or contribute to hypertrophy.

15:30Free weights versus machines is a good example. Machines versus free weights on a hypertrophy basis, you could argue based on the data are about the same. But we know that free weights, number one, they're more appropriate depending on different body shapes and sizes. Machines are limited. Free weights follow the body. That's number one. Number two, it's more like the real world. Number three, they require more mobility and more skill. So practicing them keeps that up better. And over time, you'll just move better if you did free weights. And does that contribute to better gains later on? Of course it does.

16:06Or to put it differently, would dysfunction get in the way of progress as you continue? Yes. In fact, if you interview a bunch of people, take a thousand people who've been consistent with strength training over 10 years and ask them, what's the number one thing that got in your way of progress? and it's injury. Injury and pain is at the top, top, top of the list. And so you got to take that into consideration, which you won't necessarily see in a control study. And most of them only last, you know, a few months, a few months long. So this is where a lot of this stuff comes into play. It's like - Context and nuance, man.

16:44Yes. And so now, okay, so the question is, where should I get my advice from? You want to take your advice - AskMindPump.com? Yeah. I mean, we try our best. That's why we built that. Yeah. I'll give a good, look, I'll give an example. I'll give an example of a person who understands the science, but also has the experience and understands the nuance because they've trained lots of people. Brett Contreras. Brett Contreras is a great example. Joe DeFranco. Joe DeFranco. Another great example. These, these are trainers. Ben Bruno. Who know the science. They know the science. They can go toe to toe against any of the science bros when it comes to the data, but they've also trained hundreds or thousands of people.

17:26And so they know how to apply the data and they also know when to throw the data out. Like, okay, well this is cool that the study shows us, but let's toss this out because I've never, this doesn't really work in the real world. This is why I love the takes that Brett Contreras will have or Joe DeFranco will have and why a lot of the science bros that don't have this experience can be quite irritating to hear them, you know, spout some of the stuff and then people will take it as gospel. Like you said, Adam, because it's based on studies, which makes it very difficult to contend with. Hey, how was Disneyland?

17:59Oh, God. Huh? Good time. The most expensive place on earth. That's what they should label it. Oh, God. Do you know how it is? It's crazy. It's got$8 water. It is. An$8 water bottle. Easy. So first, so we - All smiles. I was there for two days, essentially, with the kids. We took my niece and my mother-in-law, and I tracked. we did like seven or eight miles a day yeah of walking yeah how much uh which you know is exhausting for the little ones and you got to put up with all that or whatever yeah but i was just you know i'm just paying attention to how much everything costs i'm like god this place is so ridiculously expensive it's such a cheap ass dude so i no not no hey listen i won't i'll tell you guys all fair because listen you guys know me when it comes to vacations and convenience i don't mind spending no no i know i know you went all out on this one you probably could have bought a car after you're done with the whole thing.

18:47I'm pretty sure it's around there. But I went online because they disclosed their revenue. You know, you can find their revenue, how much they make. Do you guys want to guess how much revenue Disneyland brings? Per day? On average, per day. Per day? Per day. They're parks. That's their highest revenue. Just one park. Just Disneyland. Just Disneyland here in LA. Not California Adventure. It's a million a day. Just LA. Oh, it's way more. 20 million? 20 million a day. Disneyland. I'm not talking Disney World. I'm not talking about, you know. Woo! Just Disneyland. 20 mil a day. Averages$20 million.

19:19Imagine the staff required just to calculate all the money. My mother-in-law was like, the staff here, there's so much staff. And I'm like, there's an underground staff we don't even know about. There's people in plain clothes that are walking around. So I will happily pay the ridiculous fees for it for that exact reason because the service is great. So good. There's very few places I've ever been. What a good point. And including places like the Ritz, which I think are some of these very well-known service-based companies. Disneyland, if I had to put two companies that come to mind right away, Ritz and Disneyland, as far as very expensive, but they deliver on service because there's nothing.

19:59Katrina went somewhere. They go out of their way. I won't roll this place under the bus, but she went to a really high-end spa place for the first time, and it's a place that we've been wanting to go to over in the Santa Cruz area. And Katrina went with all the girls, and she's like, I'll let you know how good it is so we can come back. And she goes, it was terrible. Not only was it terrible, she goes, there was literally a guy when they were checking in that was just like, just charge my room. The service was horrible as he walked out. And then they had a terror. And she goes, it's just, if you charge that much, you better come through on the service.

20:30And I feel like Disneyland does that all the way from the kid who's running the little soda pop cart to the people, the janitors cleaning up. They're super bought in. To the hotel checking in, to the parking lot attendant. I had an experience. It's so funny you said that. Okay, see? So I had an experience. It's worth it. In my opinion, that's worth the bill. So we did the whole VIP deal suite at Disneyland Hotel and the whole VIP thing, which included, which by the way, just going to back up, it's with two little kids organizing things, getting there, making sure whatever. It can be a bit stressful.

21:04It can be a bit stressful to manage everything. And little kids don't like to sit in the sun and all that stuff. But so we're doing it. we're also having fun and what came with our package was like a special event i think was what it was called and the one that my wife picked was they would they reserved a spot for us for one of the parades i don't remember what it was called but it's got a bunch of lights and stuff i don't remember the name of it but it's it was like at night and so we have like this reserve so instead of having to wait and like in the crowd they'll have a reserved area so we knew about this right so we're at Disneyland all day long and it's about 7 p.m and we're like okay we have enough time to eat real quick go back to the hotel we'll rinse off the kids put them in their pajamas because it can be late by the time we're done so we can bring them back so we do all that and we're rushing rushing back and we're like barely making it right so we're kind of and we don't we can't find the meeting place I have the paper yeah from the concierge that tells us where to go yeah and we're looking for it and my wife is like my poor wife she had this expectation and afterwards she said that she's like oh i got upset because i had this expectation she has like this like magical experience or whatever we're late we're walking through these it's crowded her and i are fighting you know over it because she had told me earlier check can you please check our to this experience thing make sure it's all set up and i didn't i didn't i didn't sound like what am i gonna check i know we're gonna do it but i didn't check so last minute i look at it and now i'm like yeah thanks guys just give her emma well i mean she hasn't learned this yet you know what I mean?

22:34She's been married for a long time. Don't, dude. I'll make it worse right now. She's seething. Good, good, good. So we're like, and we're fighting over it, pushing the kids, you know, and it's like, this is just ruining the whole trip and this is not what I wanted, you know, and she's so mad. And we're trying to find the place and we can't find it. And the crowds are already building. Like, we're only like 20 minutes. The parade's gonna start, you know, and we're supposed to have this nice area. So I'm asking, so I go up to the staff and ask them and they're looking at my thing and they're like, well do you have the the ticket stubs i'm like no this is all they gave us you know i don't know and so now they're trying to help us so we go up to this one area i asked this lady she's like uh it's not for this reserved area she's like i think you might have to go but by this time they're closing off their streets yeah yeah so now and so my wife says so she breaks down she starts crying oh no yeah she's so upset and she's hugging me and she's crying and the staff there is like looking they see her they're looking over oh shit and they're like hey let me let me go talk to somebody so they and they come back we're gonna let you guys like you're not supposed to be here but we're gonna put you guys over here we're gonna take care of you and then i think what you were supposed to be is up there i'll make sure i talk to them because they may have given you bags of goodies and they totally took care of us so we had to put us right in the front set everything and i went up to the girl this young kids i went up to them i said hey you guys thank you so much you guys really helped us out because if we missed that this would have been so we had we had the exact same thing in fact you uh we we went for oogie boogie bash which is what the parade was so you might have went to a different parade but similar system and the way it works is when you when you get on the app when a certain time hits now for us i think it was 8 p.m i think is what the time was or 6 6 p.m or 8 p.m i don't remember but as soon as it hit that hour you confirm in your app and then as soon as you confirm in your app it automatically puts you in a pool and there's four different locations where you'll go to where you have vip tables in front of the parade set up Yeah.

24:23And so and you don't know what that is until you you you hit the app right. And I was like on it by the minute, like I'm watching my watch. As soon as it hit the hour, I went, bam. And so I got it within like seconds. I'm like, I want to be able to I wanted to pick an area that I wanted to be at with with the group that we had. And so I knew where the area was and I go over there and I'm waiting and I'm watching all these people getting seated. And I'm like, I'm starting to get fumed. I'm like, dude, we've been here for 20 minutes. I'm sitting here. I had to have been, if not the very first person who hit that ab, or they're like 15.

24:55And Katrina goes over and asks politely and stuff like that, and then comes back and they say, yeah, no, they just said wait, and we keep waiting. I'm like, now it's getting closer to the parade time. And so I'm starting to stress out, and I'm angry because I did all the things. I checked. I got it. You know what I'm saying? So now I'm getting all heated, right? And I can tell Janet, who's with us, our friends, my best friend's wife, and she could tell I'm fuming, so she's like, I'm going to go beeline over to them. And she did. And you could see she was having one of those like, wah, wah, wah, wah, like she's totally barking at me.

25:22And you could just see right away, like they see the seriousness of her, which is probably very similar to what they saw with Jessica starting to cry. And they radio, radio in, another person radios, two people come over like that. And they're like looking around. They're like, they're pointing and there's like, and then they flag us over and they're like, listen, we're going to give you these seats right here. And they just literally took care of us, got the boxes of the treats and everything that we're supposed to have, radioed someone else. hey we just took table whatever for a family just make sure it's off your list and they just do stuff like that and i mean i can i got story after story of why we were there of situations like that where you know they take the time and to me i can i can stomach experiences paying for experiences like that when i get that kind of service there's nothing like spending that kind of money and then just like your service makes a huge difference huge difference it makes that like eight dollar water all worth it because you're just like this is ridiculous yeah but you know i'm sure it costs i mean you you brought up what they make 10 million a day or 20 million a day but how many millions do they spend just in people oh yeah and a team to to deliver that service right and i know i think i brought it up on the podcast before they they actually you don't even see how many employees they have because they have undercover employees people that are designed to look like just people in the theme park that are walking behind and sweeping up popcorn and making sure the kids are safe and like everything's so clean yeah you think how do they keep it so clean with this many people this many kids kids are messy oh yeah it's spotless yeah this is all the stuff i was looking at and one thing that did make me sad though was how many adults i saw on scooters that which makes me really sad to see so many people in scooters but also what added to it was a lot of people on scooters didn't need them necessarily.

27:13That's how I felt. Oh, yeah. There were a lot of people on scooters that just didn't need them. It's like a hack. Yeah. It really makes me sad. I see a lot of people scooter up to get their French fries and ice cream, park it, and then go walk through the line. I'm like, this doesn't seem right. No, man. But you see a lot of that. Yeah. Bro, Disney World's way worse than Disney World. Disney World, way worse. Disney World was crazy. That's because you're in the South. Yeah, they have like designated lanes and areas for the scoops. There's traffic jams. Yes. I remember that. Yes. It reminded me of Wally.

27:45Dude, I wish I had never gone to Disneyland during COVID. That was a big mistake. Oh, because they made you guys isolate. Especially the guy that refuses to wear the mask, you know, and I was just like going through all these and like, sir, you know, like I was getting tattled on by everybody. Oh, wow. Yeah. Because you keep it in your nose. Yeah, and it's like, I can't breathe. I'm on the ride. I'm not going to wear it while we're on the ride. Give me a break. And they literally took me aside, and they're like, we're literally going to have to leave the park. Oh, wow. Are you serious? You got reprimanded like that, huh?

28:19Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was just like, dude, all right. And then I just finally conceded, but it was miserable. The whole thing was just a waste. But again, that was out of their hands and control. Well, can you imagine being a company that big, servicing that many people and like having in a having the state come down impossible it's an impossible thing to appease yeah in that situation yeah you're either yeah if you're not pissing you off and you're pissing the two karens off that are reporting yeah yeah i wanted and i knew who it was too and i was going to come after that guy such a douche we had a funny a few funny moments but one of them is uh my my son is he's so he's a lot like me when it comes to rides like he doesn't like scary rides right i didn't get on this and he goes he goes on the cars ride which i guess they race the cars it's pretty quick or whatever yeah he's so he gets so mad he's like you didn't tell me it was scary to you know to his mom and then he was mad that he was scared i'm so mad that i was scared he was so pissed off over that it sounds so much like max like that yeah so disappointed that you you did that i could almost die yeah that's what he said he tried to kill me he literally said he did he gets his hand like this he's like you don't understand i could have died i could have died on that ride and i'm like you know and i'm trying not to like because he gets more upset if i'm like you're not gonna die yeah i know he felt that way yeah he felt that way nobody's ever died on that ride yeah my daughter's so different my three-year-old yeah the scarier the better she wants the scariest ride yeah is that because i you see that a lot with uh you know parents that have two little ones that the younger ones like that i'm assuming that's common because the younger one is trying to keep up that makes sense with the older one, and you get to see your sibling try the things first.

30:02So you want to do it. And so you end up getting brave early. Like when you're Aurelius or Max and you're the first one going down the stairs in your house, it's like you're versus she's seen him walking up and down already. So she's already, oh, I could do this, even when she probably couldn't do it. You know, so it's kind of it. There were a couple times too where I saw this one mom with, how many kids does she have? Three or four by herself. Yeah. Walking through the park. It's very nice all that. Oh, we stopped her. My wife stopped. She's like, are you here? She's like, well, my husband, he's going to join us later or whatever.

30:32And we're just like, you are a champion. Katrina and I saw. I have so much respect for. Katrina and I saw a lady that I almost took a picture. But I'm like, I don't want to look all weird and creepy doing this. But she had, what's the? The Bjorn. Yeah, the Bjorn, stroller, and holding the hand of a kid by herself. It was like, that is gangster right there. Super mom. I don't care what you do for work or whatever. You can walk around with four kids in a park like that and give them a good time. Like, God bless you. Yeah, yeah. Because I have two and I got my wife. And I'm like, can we go now? I'm getting tired.

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31:04How late did you guys stay out? Did you guys stay out there later? Oh, yeah, dude. So we got there at 9 a.m. And besides from going back to watch the kids come back, we got back at 10. So it was like 9 to 10 p.m. Did you do one big single day or did you guys do multiple days? I don't remember. No, we did two. So you did do two. We did do two. How was that? It was fine. But the second day we were out by 4 because then we had to get on the plane. Oh, OK. But still, you're there in the morning. yeah because when we went katrina was like we could do two like two like uh many days or or one crazy big day i'm like give me the one crazy big day that's that to me because i like we did legoland split over two days and the second day i was like i don't even want to go oh yeah i didn't want to go i was just like no yeah it's too much i'm on two like i'm like i i said let's let's burn them out one day let's go get up early let's roll them stay up late do all the things and then like then we could sleep in relax the next day because totally two back-to-back days of a park is like a lot it's a lot dude yeah it's a lot anyway i got some have you guys seen the news that's going around about the like and it's everybody's it's it's going viral uh it hasn't been done on humans yet but apparently in taiwan maybe you can look this up they have come up with a formula that literally regrows hair.

32:17Like, regrows hair. Oh, God. Look it up, Don. Look up Taiwan hair regrowth study or whatever. And people are talking about it like crazy. They put it on mice with no hair and it grew back. One of the scientists did it on his leg. And it just sprouted hair. You got to be careful where you apply it, I guess. You got to wear gloves. Palm's too hairy to hide. There it is. Researchers at National Taiwan University have developed a promising hair regrowth serum that regrew hair on mice in just 20 days by stimulating dormant hair follicles. Now, does it do like, okay, so my experience of all the hair stuff when I tried some of the Bosley and all that, is you get peach fuzz, but that's all it ever goes to.

32:57Apparently, this regrew full-on hair. Yeah, it's literally what it does. It's weird. Have you ever experienced that? Have you guys actually used any of it consistently before? I did once with the Minoxidil. So it does. it's uh and i i get how it it will make i mean because if you look at somebody who's thinning down on their head you have all these kind of patches and if you at least get that peach fuzz looks better yeah the darkness kind of fills the gaps and so it looks like your hair is much fuller but then it would never grow beyond that it just is this no this fuzz apparently this ground cover this yeah re-grew it like legit re-grew it so and it's it's fatty acids there's no chemical or anything like that.

33:39Oh, really? Yes. It's these natural fatty acids. Well, that's cool. Yeah. Because I would totally mess with stuff like that that's like a natural thing that's supposed to help thicken or be better like that. I have no desire to do a surgery or to try any chemicals on my head. Can you imagine if this came out in the 80s? I feel like it missed the boat here. Yeah. It's huge. I had a buddy that did a hair transplant, and he took pictures of himself after recovery. Yeah. Oh, terrifying. his head looked like because it was all swollen from the surgery or whatever he went to Mexico to get it too you know speaking of hair obviously I haven't tried Caldera's new shampoo have you guys obviously it was so funny you know Katrina will obviously tell Jerry to bring home new products sometimes Jerry just grabs the stuff and puts it in my bag and I got home and I thought it was like some, you know, dirty prank.

34:34It's like, why did she stick the shampoo Caldera in my bag? I'm like, you want me to report back on how great it feels or how good it is? Wow, I bet you it's a great - They have a nice shiny beard. Their products are amazing. I'm sure. I mean, I love everything else they do, but I mean, I'm like, this is kind of useless for me. Is it available? It is available, Doug. Can you pull it up? I want to take a look at this. So Caldera Lab now went into shampoo because all the rest of their stuff is skincare. Oh. Makes sense. Makes sense. Makes sense. That does. I mean, what goes into shampoo that is so different than cleaning your skin?

35:08The key is the scalp. The key is all about the scalp. So because it's more sensitive? No. If you make the scalp healthy, then the hair is going to look healthy. So what does that say? Wow. So this is from their studies. 100 % agree hair looks fuller and thicker. 96 % agree hair appears to have less shedding. and 98 % agree feels stronger. So they have a hair care system here. It has three different things. It has shampoo, conditioner, and they have the hair serum, which is like a hair regrowth type. Oh, I didn't know they did all. I thought they just had the shampoo. That's awesome. Oh. Yeah. Look at that.

35:48Speaking of cool science study, and finally, Science Daily. So you guys remember the speculation, but the reports we were getting from our doctor friends who've been using GLP-1s like semaglutide, trisepatide on patients. Yeah. Do you guys remember, I'm sure I know you do, but you know what they were saying about the other effects that people were getting? Not just that they were eating less, but that they were also drinking less, smoking less. Less impulsive, addictive qualities. There's now studies that are showing that it's actually working. This is the summary. This is from sciencedaily.com.

36:25The title says, weight loss drugs like ozempic may also curb drug and alcohol addiction here's a summary glp1 drugs originally developed for diabetes and obesity may also curb addictive behaviors by acting on reward circuits in the brain early trials show reductions in alcohol intake opioid seeking and nicotine use wow huge that's crazy yeah it's crazy that's crazy that if we if this is the case how far how far away are we from the the newest one the retatretide or what it's called I don't think it's available as a medication yet It's not, but I know I see the post, I see the stuff coming around It's in trials right now?

37:03I believe so It's got to be coming soon though, right? So it's wild So in rodent models, several GLP-1 receptor agonists have been shown to reduce self-administration of heroin, fentanyl, and oxycodone Preclinical data show that GLP-1 receptor agonists reduced nicotine self-administration reinstatement of nicotine-seeking Okay, so in regards to the opiates and stuff like that, is there something happening to the receptors that's happening, or is it just purely the desire to do it? It's all about this kind of pleasure-seeking reward systems in the brain that are connected to food. And so it's more of a broad application.

37:45It's not just food. It's that people desire, the desire to try to seek something pleasurable goes down. It's not doing anything to like the opiate receptors. No. Because one of the hardest parts about coming off an opiate is how much your receptors get downregulated, how much they need just to feel normal again. And so the coming off of it is like a nightmare. No. So it's not doing anything to that. It's literally just somebody who battles. They just desire less of it. Yeah. Okay. Which is kind of crazy. I mean, that's really cool. This is wild because we could be, I mean, it's very interesting what the applications could be on something like this.

38:16Do you think that I have found, I mean, my sister reached out to me about her doctor. And this is not through us or anyone like that. She was like, yeah, she recommended I microdosed GLP-1. For what? I forgot what her reasoning behind my sister, because obviously my sister's not way overweight, but for the other health benefits that were included in it. And it just got me thinking that, are we going to see this in the near future where these doctors are actually recommending like even micro dosing of it uh to more people because of all the other well that's what all the the frontline uh doctors you know the ones we've had on the show yeah i've been using for a while they they recommend micro dosing said that and yeah it's interesting that it hasn't really made mainstream yet like micro dosing no because i think the pharma companies are still yeah they they're they're slow to it yeah they're slow to it for i think for obvious reasons uh you got to look and see what the profitability is on microdosing i know that ozemic has got a humongous lawsuit and yep so they're dealing with that what was the lawsuit over uh people were saying they had side effects that they were told about and it does slow down gastric emptying uh you take a high enough dose it could make everything not move anymore so when it when it slows down something like that is it just in generally slowing down the entire digestive process yeah so let's just empty right that's all part of the process so if the entire you know process takes roughly let's just say for argument's sake two hours to happen is it making it four to six to eight i don't know do you have any idea no i don't know what the numbers are yeah i mean it makes sense that that's what if i mean if you just slow that process that makes sense why you're not hungry very long i wonder if it slows down even more than that but i mean back to what i was saying earlier i i know a guy who was using it for sex addiction.

40:02He worked with a doctor who said, let's try this because he had an addiction to sex pornography. Yeah. And he said he got some decent results off of it as well. Yeah, because weren't they also attributing it to lowering the brain inflammation on some level? That's what Dr. Seeds says. An inflamed state tends to kind of lean into those impulses. That's what Dr. Seeds definitely said. Yeah. What does that say? It slows down gastric emptying by about 36 minutes on average. Okay. For example, one study found the time to empty 50 % of a meal was 138 minutes with a GLP-1 receptor agonist versus 95 minutes with a placebo.

40:37Well, I mean, that's a significant difference from 95 to 138. How much percent is that? Almost double, 40 % more or so, 35 % more. That would be my rough math somewhere around there. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Another interesting study on cavities and gum disease and its connection to strokes. so I'll read to you guys what the summary says the American Academy of Neurology so this was October 27th this got put in Science Daily people with both cavities and gum disease were found to have an 86 % higher stroke risks than those with healthy mouths the study followed thousands of adults for two decades linking poor oral health with major cardiovascular events you guys want to have speculations as to why?

41:25Well, yeah, I would think there's a major correlation with people that have gum teeth issues with their types of foods that they're eating in their diet. So you're probably eating a lot of processed junk and garbage. And that probably is what has more to do with it than actually the gums or the teeth. That would be my guess. That's what I thought, too. But here's what the data is starting to show. Oh, interesting. Is that, yeah, your mouth should be a sealed area where bacteria doesn't get into your bloodstream. Because that's like direct access to bloodstream into your brain and heart. That's right.

41:58It's going to be scary for someone like you. Yes. What? I mean, just the sheer volume of more of your mouth is open compared to Justin.

42:10Put those dots down. I see what you're saying. I mean, Justin's like 50 % less likely to get whatever you eat. No, every time you eat, right, if there's bacteria. I'm just brewing it right now. If there's bacteria and stuff on your food, by the time it gets into your stomach, the stomach acid destroys a lot of it, right? Yeah. But it can get directly into your bloodstream through your gums, which can cause heart inflammation. And they've connected certain bacteria in the mouth with gum disease and also connected it to cardiovascular events. Yeah. So that's probably - So are you guys pro oil pooling and stuff?

42:47or do you think that's too woo-woo for you or do you think there's value in that? I mean, I think that has to do with helping the microbiome of the mouth, right? I think so. I don't know enough about it. I don't know enough about it. Yeah. I mean, obviously flossing and keeping good hygiene. Doug, you ever oil pooled? I've tried it. I figure you have. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it did anything. I didn't do it consistently. For a long time. Yeah, for like a long period of time. Yeah, I don't know about swishing cooking oil. I've done that with salt water. I'll do that every now and then.

43:17Yeah, I got a water pick instead of floss. Have you guys ever used one of those? Oh, I used to love my water pick. You know, what it is is just a big tool on the freaking counter. I go through phases. I've had probably - You're such a girl. It doesn't look good on my counter. Well, not just that. It becomes messy and spilling. I have a portable one. It's easy. It's self-contained. So you use one also? I do, but I also floss. I do both. Why both? Because it's good. It's good to do both. You're supposed to do both? Yeah. How long does it take you to do your teeth at night? That's why he's late, dude.

43:50It takes an extra 30 seconds to do floss. Water picking floss in his teeth right now. It's 45 minutes later. The guy with no kids. Better start my teeth. Picking every blackhead. I got to be in bed in 90 minutes. No, seriously. I mean, water picks great. They are cool. I mean, I like them, but I mean, they can get a little messy. At least once or twice, you always accidentally push the button when it's facing the mirror and then it blasts the whole mirror. Oh, my God. I do it in the shower. I've done. Oh, that's not a bad idea. I just keep it in the shower and I just. Son of a gun. Why didn't I think of that?

44:22Electricity and water. That's why. Well, it's portable. Battery operates still. Batteries in the shower. Well, you're not going to get zapped with a little battery in there. He's not in the shower. I don't imagine. No, no, no. I mean, I'm in the shower, but I'm not. It's not getting wet. Even if it did, it's self-contained unit. Oh, OK. I want you, Adam. You brought up something off air I thought was brilliant. What's that? Oh, my. My new job for kids. What a brilliant idea. So I'm always... Someone needs to do this. Since I was a kid, I used to get my... Not my real mom, my best friend's mom always sent me those little like...

44:58There was a magazine. Justin, you might have subscribed to this. It was like a... Maybe you too, Sal. Like a business magazine. It was like small business ideas. I don't know if any of you guys... I forget the name of it, but it was a really popular... I was reading nerdy stuff. Yeah. That was mine. I was reading small... Entrepreneur, maybe? That could have been. No, it was something different. It was like literally specific like small business ideas and it was a whole magazine dedicated to it. It was really good. I used to read them all the time. Anyways, I've always been infatuated with these little ideas that I could make a small income or whatever, even as a young kid.

45:26And I was doing something that you brought up actually first that reminded me of this idea that I've had for a while. It's so brilliant. Sal was complaining about all the Amazon Prime boxes that he has to break down from the wives ordering stuff. And we all kind of like grumbled. Oh, yeah, me too. we all can relate and i remember seeing this one kid who did this uh small business i thought was absolutely brilliant where he went around his neighborhood and it was it was in a rich neighborhood where a lot of people and in an area like i think it was i think arizona or some place like that where it's really popular um utah is like this too where almost every house has a water softener because the water is so hard oh yeah that area and so it's like just an annoyance that you have to change the salt like once every 45 days or something and so this kid went around it's a brilliant idea and it was just like hey i'll for you know 20 bucks a month or like that i'll change you'll never have to worry about your soul wants to do it yeah nobody wants to do it it's like 20 bucks they never got to think about it again and this kid takes him so he made a ton of money doing this and it takes him a few minutes to do his neighborhood and i was like that's what a brilliant idea if i was a kid what would i do right now what's different today than you know uh or in our area and i'm like you know what it is that amazon guy is at every one of our our neighbor's houses every single day dropping boxes off and one of my things that my i hate doing is when it's trash day is all the boxes i gotta break down from this i mean literally just in six days it it blows me away how much boxes i have and you can't stuff it in the recycle bin because they're all odd and weird and it fills up your whole recycle bin so you got to cut them up and the recycle guy wants them in or they won't pick them up you can't just throw the boxes out there he won't you have to you have to cut them in i forget what the size they say like four by four sizes are smaller so you have to cut all these break all these boxes down and it's just it's an annoyance right and i thought man if a kid came to my door and said hey for 20 bucks a month or what i'd probably even pay up to 50 or 60 20 bucks a week yeah yeah i was gonna say i'd probably pay all the way up to the same thing i'm paying the butt no i'm with you i'd it'd be interesting to see especially if it was a kid because i'd be like right right like it'd be interesting to see what the market would say i mean i know when i was a kid that's my first ever real business was a lawn mnemonic service and that's what i did is go to door door the evolution exactly and it was $20 right along.

47:38So who knows where that is today, what people would pay for cardboard boxes because nobody used to order Amazon. Yeah, imagine if you just threw them on the side of the house and every week he showed up. Which is exactly what I do. And he cut them up and put them in the thing for you. That's right. How much would you pay for that every week? I would. I paid 20 bucks. Yeah, I think so too. And I think that it's, and I would even take it to another level where all my neighbors that signed up for it, I would put us all on a WhatsApp and you could even just let me know like, hey, cardboard boxes, and then I'll make sure to get to that house before and early if it's starting to bulk up.

48:07I'll just add it to the kids' chores. That's true. I think it's a brilliant idea if you're a young, I don't know what age you'd start that at, 12, 13? I don't know if that's too young. I would love to pay a little 15, 16-year-old kid. You get your little electric scooter and your little tools. You just go from house to house? Just break them down before garbage day? That would be great. I think you can make a little killing. and they do they make some really cool tools uh to break down the boxes easier and i think that a lot of people especially if a kid came to my door and knocked on my door like the amount of waste we must produce now so huge compared to before right because the amazon it's probably it's really bad i saw i just saw some like a documentary on it and it was like you know put courtney and i at pause we're just like oh my god because even in um i think is this one place not in the Congo, but it was somewhere in Africa where it was, it had a coastline.

49:07And so on the coastline, you actually saw, it was all like shirts and clothing in the, it was just literally washing up every day. It was washing up on shore. And they were just scooping it like out of the ocean because they just have so much clothing that comes down from some big factories. and like it's just like the people will wear them but then they discard them and it's just like we're at a position now where it's so saturated that it's like they don't know how to get rid of all this stuff and i would add that as an all a cart to my cardboard boxing business too is because and i okay i have to clean out my closet of clothes i don't wear anymore and i put it in oh by the way would you like the extra service where i take your clothes and donate it that's right i'll go i'll go donate to a good cause what about that you just leave it in a black trash bag next year and i'll take care of it for you and i would i would actually clean out my closet on a more regular basis if i had somebody because what happens right now and i've got it in my house right now it's in our office there's three huge bags of just clothes and hats and old shoes i wonder if that would work for amazon if amazon could say hey all the boxes that you guys uh after you take your products out leave the box aside we'll take them back i wonder if they could make a profit they still would want them broken down because it would be too hard and too bulky for the driver to take it.

50:29That's part of what makes that such a headache. If I could just throw my boxes out and somebody would come pick them up, the hassle is the breaking down of all these odd-shaped boxes to be in this 4x4 cup. You know what's crazy is that most places don't even recycle. It's not recycled. Aluminum and glass is recycled, but cardboard is not. So even though you put it in the recycled bin, we used to sell nothing plastic is recycled why would we not reuse cardboard I feel like that would be an easy thing to recycle because the cost of breaking it down recycling makes no sense it's more money they burn it but we don't want to do that so we used to give it to we used to sell that to China we used to sell them our cardboard and plastic China stopped buying it so it doesn't make there is no cost efficiency for recycling so I did see though somewhere that like china had this um factory that started to be able to burn clean like vapor so so they were actually able to kind of turn that into energy how was that productive energy oh because because it's can't the productive energy is canceling out the negative byproduct yeah so it's not necessarily you're not having negative because there's no way you get around not having some zero carbon but because the positive that comes out of it it outweighs the negative oh interesting yeah i mean i don't know how much traction they're getting with it yet but i was That's at least promising.

51:47It's like you can start using the waste for energy. Oh, speaking of promising, am I okay to talk about the Black Friday? Are we going to be doing that when this airs, Doug? Absolutely. Black Friday starts right now. For us? Who? For us. Oh, wow. This is 60 % off everything. So every MAPS program, every bundle. Are we in November? Is this currently in November right now? Yes, it is. Oh, wow. Okay. Yes. So it's 60 % off everything, including all the bundles. So bundles, programs, everything's 60 % off. We have more giveaways this year too and prizes than ever too. So here's what happens. We're two people.

52:24So I'll get to how you can enter to win. It's actually kind of easy, but we're going to give away two one-week stays at the Park City Mime Pump House, which includes a$1 ,000 travel voucher. So you're going to get the stay there plus$1 ,000 towards your travel for two people. Five people are going to win three months of one-on-one coaching from our trainers. And 10 people are going to win three months of our concierge coaching from our trainers. And the way that you enter is if you get a bundle, every bundle of MAPS programs you get, you get 10 entries. Every MAPS program you get, you get three entries.

53:00And then the guides and the mods give you one entry. So you get three bundles, 30 entries, your odds of winning go through the roof. So two, two one-week stays. It's on. which is really cool and then since we're in November we're coming up on Thanksgiving my favorite holiday this is when ButcherBox gives you can get a turkey right you can add a turkey to your box is that true Doug that is correct yeah yeah makes that so convenient going to get the turkey at the grocery store is always a pain their turkeys are delicious they're amazing and they're great every year that's one of our we do multiple turkeys but that's all are you going to do the thing again where you fry one and bake one yeah actually I want to try three I want to go smoke one Yeah, bake, smoke, fry.

53:39Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. And all fry and smoke. And then my brother is the one who – my brother's got the baking down pretty well. And so he does the bake. And then this year I'd like to try and do the smoke and the deep fry. Deep fry is easy. It's like so easy. It's not even fair. It's like you don't do anything. The deep fryer takes care of everything. It's fast. Try not to spill it. Yeah, I mean, that's it. Put it outside. Put it in a safe spot. Drop the sucker in. You don't even season it. You don't do anything to it. you literally just drop it in the deep fryer and then it's just the oil you don't season it no you don't want to do that you don't want to put like the oh yeah salt and then deep fry like that it'll pop and crack and do so you like literally just what oil is it uh peanut oil okay yeah so you fry it in peanut oil and you just you know yeah you just dry it down get prep it you know but then you you drop it in for two hours or less it's not even that means if thanksgiving's coming that's my annual workout with my cousins.

54:33Did you guys do it last year? We did. It's changed so much, you guys. Oh, that's right. No, no, no. I remember it turned into driving the race cars. That's what it's going to become now. All your cousins are going to want to drive the race car and they're going to want to actually work out. Well, really what it's become is I have all these injuries, excuses now that's what's happening. It's like, hey guys, we're going to do the workout. Oh, my shoulder. Oh, my back. Oh, God, this workout sucks, you guys. That's where we're at now. By the way, on that turkey, you can get a free one if you sign up.

55:03Oh, so if you're not a member, sign up. If you're not a member, you can get a turkey or a ham for free. Oh, you have the ham in there. That's cool. I'm not a fan of ham. Really? I love ham. Oh, I love ham. It's gross. It doesn't taste as... What is it? It's ham. It doesn't taste... It's nothing. It tastes like nothing. It's not even good. Really? No, I'm not a fan of ham. Shame on you. Say that. Maybe you just need the right person to cook you a ham. That's what everybody says. Every time I try it, it's like, meh. Huh. It's not that good. turkey with some good gravy on it but ham me whatever i there's not a lot that i don't like what's the most overrated dish on thanksgiving on thanksgiving yeah what's the most overrated jello jello marshmallow anything marshmallow yams oh that's the worst yeah i'd say that's that's probably what's underrated oh underrated sleeper it's a sleeper stuffing pecan oh the stuffing's the best is that considered underrated because everybody i don't think it's underrated I think people love it.

56:00I think everybody knows stuffing's the best. What's a good underrated dip? Pecan pie. Well, I love pecan pie. Good God, that's delicious. Best pie ever. Is that awesome? It's the best. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I go. I'll promote, though. You got to throw a scoop of ice cream. Oh, absolutely. Or at least whipped cream, yeah. Sure, sure. That's my favorite. You know, turkey might be a little overrated. The white meat? The white meat in particular, yeah. Yeah, turkey's not that. Although that's what goes the best with the gravy. Yeah. So, because it's a little dry and the gravy's perfect.

56:26I feel like dark meat doesn't need the gravy. I always do white meat. You always go white meat? Why? Yeah, that's probably why. Just as racist as coming out. There's underlying, they wrote a book on it. I gotta read it still. He has a wall where the turkey is. White meat's... Don't let the brown meat go. It's the master meat. Stop! Come on. We're already going back. Too far, too far. Do you have to add that in? It really depends on how it's cooked, though. It's just freaking turkey, guys. I'd say probably 90 % of turkeys cooked out there are probably overdone. Overdone. I mean, that's one of the hardest parts about turkey because there's a bit of an art to it because that's one of those meats that you can't undercook.

57:09If you undercook it, that's all bad, right? You get sick from that. So you can't undercook it. So everyone is always probably a little over than like - You know what they have at Disneyland? They're just always over - The turkey legs. The turkey legs. Come on, bro. I love those things. So last year - They're the best. When I was in Florida, it was during my YouTube series. So you had to eat it. That's all I could have. There was nothing else you could eat inside there. So it was just like turkey legs. Medieval glutton. Your face is all covered in green. Get you a bib. You've probably heard of Methyl and Blue.

57:43This optimizes mitochondrial function. What does that mean? Way more energy and focus. It's not caffeine. It's totally different. It's Methyl and Blue. and the best place to get it is from Troscriptions. Their Just Blue product hits you faster and is more effective. Go check it out. Go to troscriptions.com forward slash mind pump. That's T-R-O-S-C-R-I-P-T-I-O-N-S.com forward slash mind pump. It's a Just Blue trochee. You put it in your cheek, absorb it very quickly. By the way, you have to use the code mind pump for 10 % off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Lisa from Colorado. Hi, Lisa. Hi, Lisa.

58:23Hi there. How are you guys? Good. Good. So I guess I just, I've always been heavier my whole life. I've, in 2020, I lost about 90 pounds doing a lot of walking. I did a supervised diet on HCG. And then I also did keto for quite a while. So I tried to get off of that, kind of get back to more of an upbalanced life. and the weight has started creeping back up again. And it just seems like this constant yo-yo battle. I did do the food sensitivity test that you guys recommended, the Equal Life test. I had 55 different things, mostly vegetables that were on my list. So I've been doing the six week, 12 weeks, six months.

59:10So I'm at about 11 weeks now of keeping those out of my diet and trying to kind of reset my body. So I definitely think I need to do more exercise that needs to be part of it. But I feel like with all the ups and downs over the years and trying the different things, I worry that I've kind of messed up my gut in general and that my body's just not processing things the way that it should. And I don't know the best way to go about kind of resetting that and getting myself back on the right track for kind of a longer term health. Thanks for reaching out and expressing that. So it's not uncommon for the vast majority of foods that somebody develops an intolerance to to be plants.

59:51Okay. It's far more common. Aside from eggs and dairy, which tend to be high, it's almost always plants. And if somebody has a lot of intolerances, it's typically lots of different plants. And there's a lot of different reasons that we can explain why and whatever, and there's some theories, but that's just the way it is. The gut heals itself, which is – and it's actually very – you look at the cells of the gut. It's actually one of the faster renewing parts of the body. The issue, though, the challenge is we need to figure out the root cause of why you have so many intolerances and possibly treat that.

1:00:27So you may also have SIBO and you may have a parasite or not. But if we don't know those things, we can't treat them. And so then what you're doing is you're mitigating the symptoms. But then when you go back to what you did before, the symptoms will start to come back. And so we have to kind of figure that out. So SIBO is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. SIFO is small intestinal fungal overgrowth. You could have one or both. Parasites can be a part of this. They're actually relatively common, far more common than people think, especially if you've never tested or treated yourself for a parasite, but you eat things like sushi, raw vegetables, or you've traveled abroad.

1:01:06It's not uncommon for somebody to have a parasite that's just been hanging out. And they're relatively easy to treat as well. And so those things can cause gut inflammation. The inflammation then is what causes these immune reactions over time. And so what you're seeing now are the immune reactions. We would want to figure out what's the root issue, solve that, and then go through a process of letting the gut heal, and then you're fine. That's what that looks like. So it's really common for someone with a lot of gut issues to feel better eating no carbohydrates, no starches, no vegetables, or even fruit can cause an issue.

1:01:46And until you kind of treat the root issue, it's always going to be like, oh my God, I can't eat anything. I can only eat this and I can only eat that. And it's kind of like mitigating things. Fasting probably feels better for you, that whole deal. So the root, let's figure out that. And to do that, you'd want to work with someone who does gut health testing. So they could test for things like parasite and SIBO, SIFO. The Cabral, the people I work with, Dr. Cabral, they do all that in fact i think that's where you got your test from right equiloft came from dr cabral okay so i would contact them and i'd say hey i'd like to do some gut testing i want to see if i have SIBO SIFO if i have parasite then they'll test you for that and then you can treat um you know based off where that comes back from and then once you've figured that out then you can go on uh yeah reverse diet with some strength training is what you're going to need to do.

1:02:38Yeah. To kind of build the muscle, build that metabolic health, you know, get everything kind of back in order. But if gut health is poor, it's really hard to do anything. It's very difficult. You just kind of got this low level inflammation. And I know I dealt with this for years until I finally got to the root of it. And it's just like, you're just constantly managing symptoms. Better just to address it directly. Yeah. Lisa, have you considered hiring a coach through this process to kind of hold your hand through all, I know Sal just threw a bunch of things for you to go kind of figure out on your own?

1:03:06Have you, have you considered like having, having like one of our coaches or trainers take you through that process? Um, I, I, I definitely have, like, I, you know, I've been, I've tried to do a metabolism test. I did, like I said, the, the, um, food sensitivity test. I've, you know, looked at a lot of different things and, you know, talked to different, a couple different doctors and they just say, Oh, you're horrible. Everything's fine, you know, kind of situation, but it definitely does feel like there's a roadblock, like unless I'm working out a huge amount, like I probably average about, I would say 6 ,500 to 8 ,500 steps a day, you know, and then I maybe work out two to three times a week at best, but they're like 15 minute workouts, like kind of short workouts.

1:03:50So, you know, I know there's improvement there for sure, but it just feels like if I'm not working out, you know, 15 ,000 steps a day in an hour workout, It's just not working. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause again, if you have this low level inflammation, uh, you, your, your insulin sensitivity is thrown off. Cortisol can sometimes be inverted. Uh, and it just feels like you can't fuel yourself, yourself properly. You know, if you did a food sensitivity test and it came back with like a few things on there, uh, then we would just say avoid it. But when you see a lot of things on there, like yours, it's like, okay, it's what's causing this.

1:04:26Yeah. Something's caused all of this to happen. And we got to get to the root cause. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I was pretty shocked seeing 55. And you probably feel better not eating those things. The good news is though, that we figure that out and you, you fix that and it's life changing for people. So it's a, it's a big deal. So it's definitely worth the time to go get the test, research it, figure it out and, or have somebody kind of help you through that process. because once you do turn that around, it's going to feel a lot different trying to get the results that you've probably felt right now.

1:05:01It probably feels like such an uphill battle for you. It's like you're fighting your own body. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, that's the best way to describe it, I think. Totally. It's a constant me versus it. Yeah. No, totally. Absolutely. So reach out to Cabral's team, and then I'll have a coach call you. And I think if you worked with two people together, you have your functional medicine practitioner and our coach working in tandem, then you'll have all your bases covered. And you should, you know, if they end up finding what the root issue is, you're looking at like six months from now, it's going to be very different.

1:05:30Very, very different how you feel. That would be amazing. That would be awesome. I really appreciate that feedback. That's encouraging. Yeah, great. Well, thanks for calling. We'll figure it out, Lisa. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thanks, guys. You got it. All right. All right. Yeah, that's. I'm glad you said something that I don't know if I've heard you say on here before about when you have a bunch. because it's actually really common. One of the things I don't like about those food sensitivity tests, I think everybody will have one or two things. Yeah, that's most people. And a lot of times you'll have one or two things and most people are like, I actually feel fine when I have it.

1:06:04That doesn't bother me. But when you see a whole bunch of things, especially in a whole category of food, it's like, okay, something else is going on. Because it's not normal. It's more normal that you have one or two things that everybody has. To have a whole category of food that you're having an issue with is normally a flag that something else is going on. When I finally got treated, either because i they've i had a parasite which uh which i didn't know and i don't it's not like i go overseas and live in third war countries but you know in my 40s i've been living my whole life uh and i'll eat sushi i'll do this the odds are you'll probably encounter a parasite at some point and i had all these symptoms and i would mitigate them with diet and lifestyle but i could never you know you guys know this my gut would be bad then it would be better then it would be bad and when I finally treated the parasite everything changed.

1:06:52I mean 12 pounds of muscle I gained. I can eat almost everything except for like you said Adam if I have gluten I can have it here and there. If I push it it starts to bother me. Dairy I still can't do and that's pretty much it. Whereas before it was like a whole whole. Yeah I was like oh my god. And sometimes it was things that were okay. I'm like what the heck's going on? Yeah. Our next caller is Amy from the UK. Hi Amy. How you doing Amy? Hello. Hi, nice to see you all. Yeah, thanks for calling in. How can we help you? So I'm in a little bit of limbo, and I'm hoping you can give me some advice.

1:07:27I just wanted to say I really, really love the show. I've learned so much. I'm trying to get through your back catalogue of podcasts and all my runs and things like that. So thank you so much. As you can probably tell, I am from the UK, so your podcasts do reach right over the Atlantic Sea. So I'm 39 and I'm 5 foot 7 and I am quite new to lifting. I only started in December 2024, so just last year. When I started, I started off in a calorie deficit of 1600 calories at that time. And I joined the gym and I got really into it and I had a body scan when I initially started. So my initial starting weight was 78 kilograms and my body fat at that point was 37 percent.

1:08:13um my muscle mass um was 22.2 kilograms so i trained three to four times a week um was really really good on my protein intake i get at least 150 grams a day and continue to do so when i had another scan in march i'd done really well my body fat went to 29 from 37 my weight was 69 kilograms and my muscle mass had barely moved. So my muscle mass was still 22.1 kilograms. So I was really, really pleased with that because I had expected that I would lose some muscle, but I hadn't. So I decided at that point to up my calories from 1600 to 1800 and continue with the training and things like that. And I re-scanned again in September.

1:09:03My body fat had gone down to 26.6%. Yeah, nice. My weight was 65 kilograms, but my muscle mass had gone to 20.7. So I had lost about a kilo in muscle mass, which I was quite disappointed about because I don't my calories and continue with my protein and doing all those good things. So my initial goal really was to get under 25 percent body fat and then to move into a slight bulk up to maintenance and then a surplus from that to build some more muscle. but I think the loss of that kilogram in muscle mass, um, through throw me a little bit and I don't really know how to proceed. Um, from there, whether I eat my calories a bit more, whether I pop them back down to 1600, which doesn't seem the right way to go.

1:09:53I don't think. I think you've done great on the diet side. I think this is a program thing for us. Yeah, but let's pause for a second. I'll ask you one more question. And if, depending on this answer, I know what's going on here. Are you a lot stronger than you were when you started this process? Yes. How much stronger would you say? Give me an example of a big lift. Well, I will say that two years ago I had a slipped disc and I had dropped foot. So I'm very cautious on what I can do in terms of barbell and compound lifting. However, I think my biggest lift, I use the landmine quite a lot for like sumo squats.

1:10:31So I'll do that instead of having it on my back. And for me, it's 55 kilograms that I can lift and do sets of for that. Okay, so when you went from 1 ,600 to 1 ,800 calories through that process of trying to build, how much did that change, that particular lift? A lot. I was probably only doing 25 kilograms. So here's the thing. Those scans have a large margin of error when it comes to muscle. you want to do multiple scans maybe once every three or four weeks and look at the trends if your body fat percentage went down you feel good and you're stronger especially a lot stronger i mean your your lift went from 25 kilos to 55 did you say or 45 okay that's a significant amount of weight difference you didn't lose muscle yeah you didn't lose muscle so i so that so that scan is i wouldn't trust that especially if it's it's well within the margin of error one kilo is within the margin of error of a scan like that.

1:11:29I can make my body look, on a scan, I could change my body mass within six hours by changing my hydration. I also think that I'd like to have you on a MAPS program just because when you first start lifting and you do diet right, like you did, you definitely did the right things nutritionally and get into strength training. Your programming doesn't have to be that great and you will see good results. And I think you saw good results. As you continue on, it gets a little more important on how good is your programming. And just as you go, as you get deeper into this, the dialing and the programming will help continue this process.

1:12:01I think what you did with the diet was phenomenal. And so really having some sort of really good structure. And I don't know, are you coming up with the programming or are you getting it from somewhere? I've tried a few different programs and I seem to get to the point where I'm moving into those really big kind of barbell compound lifts. and I start to try and do them and I'm just, my weight's going right down. Do you know, when I'm trying to kind of lift, I suppose squat with the barbell, I can't, there's no way I'd be even lifting probably 30 kilograms on a back squat to what I could do using the landmine.

1:12:40So I have to try and then start adapting it. I think it's just my back because when I, as soon as I come up from the squat, I swing to one side, whereas I don't seem to do that when I'm using other equipment. Yeah, no. So you could go real slow, but this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to send you a program called Map Symmetry. Symmetry, thank you. And I want you to skip the last phase. So don't do the last phase. Just do the first phases. And I want you to just repeat that a couple times while going and continuing to increase your calories. And you're going to get great results from that. You'll build muscle on that, no problem.

1:13:14Strength, stability around your joints. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, because I've just kind of been like, oh, I don't know where to go from here now. Making up kind of adapting programs to suit me, but not really kind of feeling like I'm on any kind of path now. No, it makes a big difference to have good programs. It does. Unilateral training would be huge for you. Yeah, and it's all unilateral training. So because of your back and your fear of hurting yourself, and what you said just really solidified it for me, your hips will shift to one direction. Unilateral training is going to be very valuable.

1:13:44the last phase of symmetry is bilateral which is why i want you to skip it and i want you to run symmetry maybe a couple times without doing the last phase and then at the end of that i think you'll be ready to start practicing bilateral you know barbell movement i'll have doug send over symmetry and then i'd also like to have him put you in our private forum if you're not already in there because then you can just reach out to us as you're going through the process so if there is an exercise that doesn't feel right or you have questions about literally just message us inside the Facebook forum and then we can adjust it for you or change it or you can show us a video of how you're moving and we can help you thank you would you would you suggest that I stick to 1800 or should I increase it I mean I do have quite a sedentary job but I do get my 10 ,000 steps in a day oh you're moving no you're doing great I'd go up to 1900 and then to 2000 and then to 2100 and bump it up bump it up every every two three weeks and see how you feel but I think you're I think you'll feel great bumping your calories.

1:14:42Yeah, yeah. Well, do you know what? I usually have a banana and I go to the gym. And the other day I was hungry. So I had a full breakfast and went to the gym. I did a few things. So I was just like, oh, yeah. All right. Hey, what part of the UK are you from, by the way? Where are you at in England? So I'm from somewhere called Lancaster. I knew it. Which is in the northwest of England. I have family. So your accent sounds similar to my sister-in-law, who's from right around that area. So that's why I asked. Oh, right, yeah. awesome the best earlier of course that's right that's right naturally i'm still slightly colder than where you guys are i'm sorry uh just a bit more yeah you're in good hands though amy we got this i think you've done an incredible job on the diet thing i think increasing you will notice i would i would probably keep your calories there maybe a hundred just for the first two weeks of symmetry because it's a lot of isometric stuff you're not doing a lot of movement but that first after that bump those calories and try and keep increasing them but you're going to have us in the forum so if you have questions as you're going through it or concerns just just message us inside the private forum oh brilliant thank you so much and thank you for your help and thanks for answering my questions you got it all right amy thank you take care see you later bye yeah it's uh i mean that's the thing i want people to understand the strongest correlate to muscle is strength there is no stronger like you can't find something that is more strongly correlate it's not perfect because you could just improve your technique and your neural drive and all that stuff sure but if you're getting a lot stronger.

1:16:06Definitely a sign to pay attention to this. Yeah, if she added like one rep to her exercises, oh, well, maybe we'll see. But you know, she went up 20 kilos, which is like 44 pounds on a lift. Like, yeah, you built muscle. Significant. Our next caller is Sydney from Canada. Hi, Sydney. How you doing, Sydney? Hello. Hi, how are you? Good. How are you? Good, thank you. How can we help you? I'll just go ahead and read my question. It says, hi, guys. I'm a busy 42-year-old mom of three teens, all in rep sports. I work a pretty active job residential cleaning and I constantly battle overuse pain in my shoulders, elbows and wrists.

1:16:43I've done a ton of physio for them and mostly keep control of the injuries so that I can keep training and working and living. I have been doing MAPS 15 for about six months and recently tried to move on to Muscle Mommy. I did struggle right away unfortunately with it being too much upper body volume. My question is how would you change up the programs to be a little more lower body focused since my upper body already takes quite a bit of a beating with my daily life. I can manage MAPS 15, but even with that, I'd love a little extra lower body focus versus the upper body so I can help eliminate some of that upper body fatigue.

1:17:18Yeah, Sydney, thanks for calling in. And I feel you. So tell me your schedule. So what does your job look like? What time do you start? What are the activities looking like? And like, what's going on um so my work day typically starts around nine um and goes to about four uh which of course i come right home then and into kids and all of their scheduled sports which is every night most nights at least two if not all three of them in different directions um but i am like a residential cleaner so uh it's a lot of overhead um using unfortunately i'm terrible using my left so it's a lot of right-handed activities.

1:18:01Yeah. And so, and have you ever tracked your steps to see how many steps you take a day? Typically anywhere from, if I'm just going from work, it's usually about eight to 12 ,000 steps. We do have a couple of dogs though. So often there is a lot more walking involved with getting them in their daily steps. So I think my day is usually around 12 ,000. yeah what is what does your sleep look like perfect amount it is what does your sleep look like by the way what time do you go to bed what time do you wake up my sleep has actually gotten a lot better lately i used to be a terrible sleeper um but i do tend to get pretty much seven to eight hours at every night okay would you would you say generally mind if i ask you another question sydney sure would you say generally speaking with just kids you have three teenagers a lot of work work trying to keep up the workout diet all that stuff would you say generally like, oh my God, this is, I just feel overwhelmed.

1:18:57Uh, often. Yes. Um, this is probably the worst part of the time of year for us. Cause we're back into school and all the sports start up now. So this is kind of a, the craziest time for us. And it's definitely overwhelming. Okay. So I, I, rather than adding, uh, or switching out volume, there's a couple of things I'd want you to focus on. Uh, how are you with water intake? Do you drink enough water every day? Probably not. Yeah. Let's increase that because that'll make a big difference with pain. Okay. That makes a really big difference. And so what you want to do is aim for a half a gallon to a gallon a day.

1:19:31And I'm assuming at work you probably just lose track. You just get into what you're doing so you're not drinking. That is mostly it, yep. Okay, so get yourself. Carry something that you can track. Yeah, carry something, like even a gallon of water, and that way you could watch it all day long. And it's going to be hard to do all at once. You might want to add a little bit of electrolytes to it because that will help you absorb it. so you could add like a packet of element to the whole gallon and try to drink that all day. That tends to help with, uh, you know, the inflammation and pain. And then, uh, what I'd like you to do is maps 15 every other day.

1:20:02I don't think you need more of any kind of volume. I think you need less overall volume. Yep. Yep. Okay. Yep. So instead of going, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, whatever you go Monday, take a day off Wednesday. Don't worry about the, the, the seven day schedule just every other day you're following uh the next workout that's in mass 15 while drinking that water and i bet you're going to start to feel a lot better the only thing i might add to that advice that we can send to you that i think would be valuable is our prime pro and uh stuff around your shoulders elbows and wrists some of the mobility moves that are in there um just kind of it kind of include you can include those on your off days and on the days that you work out and just spend 10, 15 minutes, a couple times a day of doing some of the stuff that's in the shoulders, elbows, and wrists, and then follow Sal's advice with MAT15.

1:20:55And I think that's the appropriate amount of volume. If you start to get stronger and your pain starts to go down, you know you're going in the right direction. Even if it feels like it's not a lot, like if you're like, oh, I should be doing more. I think you're already doing so much. I think your life is probably so hectic, so busy. Your job is busy. You got teenagers. You got all that stuff to manage. Then you got to come home and worry about food and then taking them to school, all that stuff. I think if you start to get stronger and pain starts to go down, we know we're on the right track.

1:21:26How is diet, Sydney, and protein intake? I pretty consistently hit my protein. I aim for about 140 to 150 grams every day. Most days do that or more. There are a few days I miss, but not very often. So that's pretty good. I only really track that kind of my calories, but loosely. So, yeah. Okay. Generally whole foods, do you eat a lot? Do you eat out a lot? Like what's, are you? I try really hard not to. There are times where it's just not doable to get anybody at home in a day, but we do, we, we all try. I mean, of course, with the three kids being athletes too, they need it just as much as anybody else.

1:22:10Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think you just need to be at the appropriate amount of volume. If you're good about hitting your protein intake, mostly whole foods, and then even when you eat out, make good choices. Yeah. I think that's the answer. Sydney, does your husband work too? Do you guys both work in and managing all this? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He works a lot more than I do hour-wise. And he's also coaching our Sunsaki team. Listen, I don't think people realize just how hectic and overwhelming and busy it is when you have parents working and you have multiple children and they also have their own activities.

1:22:48What it feels like all day long is you have no time to do anything but all the stuff you're supposed to do. And that is a stress on the body, Sydney. And exercise is an additional stress on the body. And so we have to find a way. And oftentimes you got to scale way back. And then when you see yourself getting stronger and feeling good, what you don't want to do is like, oh, I feel good. I could do more. No, no, no. We're perfect. We're perfect. If you're getting stronger and the pain's starting to go down, we're perfect. Let's stay there. Okay. All right. I'm definitely bad for that. I feel good.

1:23:19I should do more. I know. Yeah, you're a mom. You just want to do it all and sacrifice everything for everyone else. Did you come to our Muscle Mommy talk or did you do the seven-day trial in the Muscle Mommy group at all? I haven't. I would like to. I think you'd be great for that. I think you can go in there for a free trial and join the group. A lot of the women in there are in very similar boats as you are, trying to balance life and kids and work and build muscle. I think you'll get a tremendous amount of value of that. And by the way, it comes with Muscle Mommy 15. So we have a 15 program that we built for Muscle Mommies.

1:23:54It's only in that group that gets that. And you get coached by our coaches. Once a week. Once a week, you get to meet with our girls that are coaching all the ladies in there. So I think you get tremendous value. It's musclemommymovement.com, but we'll email you that too. Awesome. I will check it out. All right. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. You got it. Take care, guys. Bye-bye. I just want people to listen to hear this, especially if you're a trainer or a coach. The individual variance with how much exercise someone can tolerate is so vast. that I didn't appreciate it until I got, I was a trainer with 10 years of experience.

1:24:30I just didn't. And I could tell by looking at her. She's running off a formula. That's right. And when I asked her, and that's why I asked her this question, how often do you feel overwhelmed? And she's like, all the time, essentially. It's like, okay, we're going to scale way back. Well, it's so funny too, because she answered her own question when she went to Muscle Mommy, which by the way, is not a crazy amount of volume in Muscle Mommy at all. For her to feel it right away and know that she had to scale back, and you were doing good on 15. People just think, oh, if I can do this, now I need more.

1:24:59Now I need more. It's like, no, sometimes that's the right dose. Sometimes when you're feeling good, that's where you want to stay. And this is the season. Her kids are going to grow up, go off to college, get more time. Some of these overuse patterns, too, it's so hard for me because it's like I know specific exercises that can really unlock a lot of the pain, a lot of the isometric stuff. But it's like we've got the general advice you guys are giving. Perfect. But, I mean, if she gets in that muscle mommy group and she's meeting with Corinne and them every week and she has Prime Pro. She'll get that guidance.

1:25:27I know for sure. They'll be able to dive into those specific things. I really hope that she gets in there and stays in there because the girls will really be able to help her out. Our next caller is Deanna from Ohio. Hi, Deanna. Hi, Deanna. Hello. Hi, guys. How are you? How are you? Good to see you again. Yeah, thank you for having me again. So give us the update. Yeah, let's hear the update. Okay. All right. So since last April, I have been healthier than I think since even my 20s. Yeah. Yeah, it's been fantastic. So I have been living in MAPS 15 since we talked last April. It has been phenomenal.

1:26:12I have to say for all your callers, like I was them and thought there's no way this program is going to be enough. And it has literally changed my life. Like I have never built muscle. I have never like sculpted none of that until Matt's 15. So it's been crazy. But I'll read my email so Doug don't get mad at me. okay so as you know like i was dr cabral's kind of disaster work um at the end of 2023 i went into 2024 um working with his team on a collection of issues um a little over a year after completing um actually it's been like a since last uh summer when i finally finished everything um i implemented all his supplements he recommended i've been doing bioidentical hormone replacement therapy.

1:27:07And I'm just checking back in, hoping for a little more help. So from January to February, from January to March last year, I lost like 28 pounds, just like from eating whole natural foods and being like just cleaning out my gut. And so I've maintained that since I was a scale worshiper my entire life. And now I don't ever even, I don't even know where my scale is. I keep it packed away. Um, and then through bio identical hormone replacement therapy, I do get an embodied scan every four months. And so I went the beginning of September and since last April, I lost 7 % body fat. And that was just 15 pounds, that I lost in that time period between the two.

1:28:03So I'm super proud of that. And it's shocking to me that my body at this age is just now responding to all my workouts and I'm in a healthier place. So my questions are, but I should start with, my sleep is still terrible. So my cortisol spikes at night. I have tried everything that Dr. Cabral recommended that you guys recommend, and I'm still failing. Like I cycle his adrenal soothe every three to four months. I don't, I'm not a TV person. I'm not on my phone that much. I am an overthinker and I worry a lot. So my job's very stressful. I am going through a divorce after 26 years of marriage. and I just moved my only living child to college.

1:28:54So life's very different for me. It looks very different for me right now. As I said, I've been living in MAPS 15. I run it over and over. I do modify the exercises sometimes for a particular body part just to do something different. I get compliments all the time about how I look. People ask what I'm doing for workouts, which is when I scream your praises every time. Everyone thinks that I'm still losing weight and I weigh the same amount that I've weighed for over a year now. So my issues are my triceps are absolutely disgusting. Like I had very nice arms until I got pregnant with my son at 34 years old.

1:29:38I gained a lot of weight during that pregnancy and my arms love to claim every one of those pounds. When I lost the pregnancy weight pretty quickly, I swear it looks like my arms separated into two different arms. And I'm so insecure about that, that I hate wearing sleeveless tops. I'm sure they probably look somewhat better now than a year ago, but there's still a whole lot of work that needs to be done. At the same time, it always felt like I cut and grow my shoulders. And I had never been able to do a push-up, not one push-up. So I decided I wanted to start learning how to do pushups. So I started doing like 10 girl pushups and then I'd wait a little bit, do 10 more.

1:30:21So every morning I was doing 40, then I got to 50, then I got to 60. And my shoulders look way better, but I can't see a difference in my triceps. And I can now do three real pushups. All right. Yeah. So you guys always talk about not adding anything to the workouts when following a MAPS program. And I'm just wondering if that counts for MAPS 15, given those are shorter workouts. So my question is, tell me how to improve problem areas when following MAPS 15. And given where I'm currently at in life, should I try to do a longer program again or continue to live in MAPS 15? I sleep good for maybe four hours and then I wake up like every 20 to 30 minutes after that um I just bought the how to build a butt mod and I'm wondering if I can add that into maps 15 and what that would look like thanks so much for your time you guys are still food for my soul um I know my son Stephen is up in heaven smiling down thinking she is finally listening so I love you guys I'm truly grateful for you and if you only know how much joy you've brought me thank you so much you're doing great what if I told you there's a Muscle Mommy 15 program that focuses on shoulders and butt there's a Muscle Mommy 15?

1:31:43that focuses on shoulders and butt it's inside the muscle it's inside our Muscle Mommy group you gotta get in there you gotta get in there okay so let me just back up first of all you're doing great yeah you're doing amazing yeah the next level for you would be to work with a coach in some way shape or form just to get some more guidance through this process that's what our muscle mommy group is so you go in there it's group coaching once a week our trainers help coach you and it includes the muscle mommy 15 program in there and then what they can do is tweak your program as you go along because you've i mean by the way if we back up if you just keep doing what you're doing, you're doing great.

1:32:25Yeah. I mean, you honestly don't need to change anything, but if you want to start to move things along a little faster, it's going to take, uh, some more detailed changes, which is what you'll get with the group coaching. And I think that would be the best option for you. Okay. I do want to join that group. I've seen all the emails and I do want to join. I'm just still in a, in an air, like a time in my life. I'm adjusting the one income instead of two, like this is all very new for me. So it's kind of difficult right now. Um, but I am looking at that and I do want to do that. Have you done the trial period in there?

1:33:02Yeah. Cause that doesn't cost anything. Yeah. Get into the trial period at least so you can experience it. So get in the trial and if it doesn't work, you could just jump out. Uh, but if you think like, okay, I can do this, then do this. Uh, otherwise, otherwise, I mean, you're doing great. I wouldn't add anything to what you're doing except for little details in the program. That's right. That's exactly what you're going to get in there. That's right. And as far as your sleep is concerned, you got, I mean, sending off a kid to college is enough to cause that. I know what that's like, but then you also got, you're going through a divorce.

1:33:33It's going to be really, and you're doing all the right stuff. In fact, if you didn't do all the right stuff, your sleep would be even worse. So just, just got to be patient with it. I'm, I'm also, I can be terrible with my sleep and it's for the same reasons that you are. I'm a thinker at night. It's hard for me to shut the brain off, especially when I have a lot going on in my life. Shoot, last night was a night like that for me where I just could not turn it off. So bad that I'm sitting there in silence and my wife will elbow me at midnight and she'll say, stop. And I'm like, I'm not talking.

1:34:04I'm just laying there. But she says you can hear me thinking. That's how I am at night. One of the things that really helps is either listening to an audio book or reading right before. That way, because it takes my mind away from all the things I'm doing. And that kind of like rocks me to sleep a little bit. So I'm kind of listening to the book or I'm reading the book. And that takes my mind off the business or off the personal stuff I got going on. That really helps me. You could also try Brain.FM. Have you ever tried Brain.FM? I haven't tried Brain.FM. I do use Mellow and I take magnesium before bed.

1:34:36I don't have any problem falling asleep at all. It's just once that four hours, sometimes it's only three, I wake up. And from that point on, it's just downhill. It's I'm looking at the clock every 20, 30 minutes, seeing how much time I have left to try to sleep. You could try Brain.FM. And Brain.FM, there's some studies that show that it helps people stay asleep as well. Or if they wake up, they go back to sleep. So you could try that as well. um and then reading is always good so uh i've been seeing some data now because what they used to say is if you wake up just keep your eyes closed and stay there now i'm seeing some data that says uh get up with really low level light uh and and then do something else like read a paper book until you get tired and fall back asleep so and i've now seen some experts kind of communicate that because what you said is so common like where people will wake up and then it's like they're stressfully trying to go back to sleep and as more time passes they're like oh my god i only have two hours left oh my god i only have one hour left yeah and it becomes this cycle so i've actually started thinking yes i've heard some experts say actually get up uh but with low level light don't turn on bright lights and then read you can get one of those like books lights that go right on your book and then like read a paper book until you start to feel sleepy and then try to go back to sleep.

1:35:58Okay. And then about adding like things and like, so for my triceps or like the butt mod thing, like, is that, does that make any sense? Or is that like overtraining then? I don't want you to add anything because you're doing so well. Yeah. I don't want you to add anything. You can always swap exercises out. So in other words, if, if one of the days is, I'll just throw this out there. One of the days is a tricep and a bicep exercise. Well, I'll just do one bicep set and then do the rest of the sets for the tricep. So I could swap sets out like that. Okay. Well, I did, I'm actually start, I just, I'm in phase one of maps 15 advanced and this is my first time ever barbell training.

1:36:42Oh, that's good. Oh, you're good. That's good. Oh no, don't do anything else. Yeah. Just follow that. No, no, you're not doing, don't do anything else yeah this will be great and i i should tell you guys so um i belong to planet fitness because it's the closest place to and it's always stuff that they don't have like regular squat and things but um my plan of fitness just got three real squat racks wow oh wow like what's happening it's the only planet fitness that i know of that actually they have a they have a hip thrust machine now they have the three squat racks and then they have a hack squat so all right or whatever we say so that one is yeah that's great but um and i also want to say like i have starved myself my whole entire life and since i worked with dr cabral this year and i started eating whole natural foods i thought i thought i was around 1700 calories a day and last night i went through before talking to you guys and i'm literally eating 2800 calories like 2800 calories and lose weight and i'm at like 184 grams of protein a day so good and i'm at 95 grams of fat is that that's great that's great you're good yes okay all right and then on the in-body scan uh a year ago i was at 115 152 for visceral fat and now i'm 101 one you are 50 pounds of fat down yeah think about that for a minute that's so incredible you i mean i i hate to ever to mess with somebody who's seeing that kind of results you really don't want to that's why i said dion that's why i'm saying don't tweak little things i don't want you to really change anything uh unless you work with a coach who individual you're humming right now yeah that's really the only time i would change anything for you okay yeah because i could I could train you and coach you and then I'd know what to change here and there.

1:38:58Like grip position. But generally speaking right now, I don't want to, I don't want you to change anything except for trying to get better sleep, but there's really nothing else. Okay. Okay. Great job. Yeah. Yeah. It's well, it's all for you guys. I mean, you guys taught me everything I know and I'm still telling people about you. And my sister-in-law finally just bought her first Matt maps program. Yeah. When I told her if you guys could get a hold of her, you would tell her to fire her trainer. And now her husband's telling her that. So anyway, but she is going to start anabolic. So that's exciting.

1:39:39Oh, good. That's exciting. Awesome. Yeah. Awesome. I hope we see you in the Muscle Mommy group because then if we can keep a closer eye on you. But you're doing great. No matter what, you're doing great. It's MuscleMommyMovement.com. And I know that there's, I believe it's a week where you can go in there for free and just see what it's about, get some coaching, and then you can decide from there or not. But otherwise you're doing great. Okay. All right. Well, it's always great hearing from you guys and being on. Thank you. And I love you guys. I listen to you every morning. Adam, the episode was on the other day about Max, you know, take care of your sister through the night.

1:40:14And it just made me cry while I was getting ready for work. it makes me emotional every time I think about it yeah yeah you guys are great you're great dads and great husbands so thank you thank you God we love you thank you thank you God bless have a good day you too wow what incredible 50 pounds of fat running MAPS 15 just humming eating 2800 calories imagine if her sleep gets and here's the thing a divorce amidst all these things Yeah, that's going to be tough. Yeah, that's a lot. But the waking up, you know, it's funny. I just heard an expert talk about this where he's like. About getting a reading.

1:40:54He's like, get up. Like, it's not happening. Get up. Do something. Keep the lights low until you start to feel drowsy. Go back to bed. He's like, I've had great success with people who struggle with that. There's something he said. I always feel like it would be all the way up. You know, it is. You're right, though, because I'm just like this, where you start looking at the clock, and you're like, oh, I can only get my phone. Exactly. Yeah, and you start to stress, and you overthink that versus like. I go through periods of that for sure. That's the worst. But, I mean, dude, you hate to mess with anything.

1:41:22She is just, like Justin said, humming. I mean, that's incredible results all the way around. To be eating that much, training in MAPS 15, see the body fat, do that. I mean, that's so good. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Super Bundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam, and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs.

1:42:07With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam, and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

From the publisher

In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom.

Mind Pump Fit Tip: Why you need to be careful when taking "science bros" advice. (3:06)
Service makes a HUGE difference. Sal's experience at Disneyland. (17:58)
The secret to rapid hair regrowth. (31:56)
Caldera Lab's new hair care system. (34:13)
Weight-loss drugs like Ozempic may also curb drug and alcohol addiction. (35:48)
Cavities/gum disease and its connection to strokes. (40:50)
Adam's brilliant job for kids. (44:40)
Mind Pump's Black Friday Sale is live! (51:50)
Thanksgiving season is here. (53:10)
The most overrated/underrated Thanksgiving dish. (55:10)
#ListenerLive question #1 – What is the best way to go about resetting my gut and getting myself back on the right track for longer-term health? (58:19)
#ListenerLive question #2 – Can you provide some advice on my lifting progress, specifically concerning muscle loss during a cutting phase? (1:07:11)
#ListenerLive question #3 – How would you change up the programs to be a little more lower body focused since my upper body already takes a lot of abuse with my daily life? (1:16:17)
#ListenerLive question #4 – Tell me how to improve problem areas when following MAPS 15? Given where I'm at in life, should I try to do a longer program again or continue with MAPS 15? (1:25:33)

Related Links/Products Mentioned

Ask a question to Mind Pump, live! Email: live@mindpumpmedia.com
Visit Caldera Lab for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Code MINDPUMP20 for 20% off your first order of their best products. **
Visit Butcher Box for this month's exclusive Mind Pump offer! ** New users receive their choice of a whole turkey in their first box, a ham in their first box, or ground beef in every box for the lifetime of their subscription. **
November Black Friday Deals (Nov. 1-15th): Sitewide 60% off. That includes every single MAPS program, bundle, MOD and guide. Enter the raffle now to win HUGE prizes: Bundles give you 10 entries, MAPS program gives you 3 entries, MODs or guides give you 1 entry. For programs go HERE. Enter the code BLACKFRIDAY at checkout.
Mind Pump Store
Mind Pump #2665: Why "Science-Based" Lifting Is Killing Your Gains
Ask Mind Pump
Baldness Breakthrough: Fat Cells Could Be The Secret to Rapid Hair Regrowth
Weight-loss drugs like Ozempic may also curb drug and alcohol addiction
Cavities and Gum Disease Could Nearly Double Stroke Risk
Visit Troscriptions for the exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners! **Promo code MINDPUMP for 10% off your first order. **
MP Holistic Health
Mind Pump #2615: Identifying Food Sensitivities With Dr. Stephen Cabral
Muscle Mommy Movement
Visit Brain.fm for an exclusive offer for Mind Pump listeners. ** Get 30 days of free access to science-backed music. **
Mind Pump Podcast – YouTube
Mind Pump Free Resources

People Mentioned

Bret Contreras PhD (@bretcontreras1) Instagram
Joe DeFranco (@defrancosgym) Instagram
Ben Bruno (@benbrunotraining) Instagram
Dr. William Seeds (@williamseedsmd) Instagram
Dr. Stephen Cabral (@stephencabral) Instagram

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